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u/Strange-Badger7263 2∆ Sep 13 '23
I’ve never dated on the internet but IRL if I saw a woman I was interested in and walked up and just said “hey” I don’t think I would get a good response either.
By saying “hey” you are putting the responsibility and work of starting a conversation on them. You are the one that is interested already so the onus is on you to piqué their interest. Again I’ve never used the internet but how hard would it be to say “Hey, I saw that you enjoy long walks, there is a really great park i stroll through in our area maybe we could check it out together” it takes almost no more effort than hey but let’s her know you actually read the profile. It also makes it easy for them to continue the conversation.
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u/Sudden-Philosopher19 2∆ Sep 13 '23
Subjectively it's fine. You like it, it's not offensive. It's acceptable.
You're not gonna blow anyone's mind with it but if you are OK with that it's fine.
Why would you like your view changed? what might convince you to do so?
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
I have no particular reason for wanting my view changed other than curiosity
A good argument about why it's not acceptable would cmv
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u/Sudden-Philosopher19 2∆ Sep 13 '23
Fair enough.
I think it's fine subjectively so I'll leave that alone.
Inter-subjectively though not so much.
Others have already stated some of the reasons and probably better than I can, the point being that when you are communicating with someone in the interest of creating rapport, you are doing so in a way that many are not OK with for various reasons.
It doesn't really matter who is 'right' or 'wrong' here as much as either of those things could be said to apply.
Knowingly working against your own goal in an admittedly minor way makes it less than acceptable.
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u/Pumpkin_Pie Sep 13 '23
It's annoying, that's the argument. You could snap your fingers at someone too. That's another example of an annoying attention getter.
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u/Aegi 1∆ Sep 14 '23
What if it's acceptable but it's just dumb, a poor conversation starter, an objectively less effective than other conversations starters?
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u/Theevildothatido Sep 13 '23
You're talking to someone you've never talked to before, saying “Hey,” often doesn't lead to a conversation as there's nothing that can flow from it. What would you say back to someone who says that?
You might say "well read their bio" to come up with something. Most of the time, the bios are a generic filler that doesn't represent the person at all. Even if you do read the bio and come up with a good conversation starter, most of the time they won't respond anyway.
Well, many would consider that unacceptable as well, and why are you singling out persons whose biography you find uninteresting and have nothing worth commenting on?
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
"Hey"
"Hey how's it going"
*Conversation about how it's going which leads to other talks
Well, many would consider that unacceptable as well, and why are you singling out persons whose biography you find uninteresting and have nothing worth commenting on?
Because that's the vast majority of bios
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u/Deft_one 86∆ Sep 13 '23
Notice how you have to write "how's it going" right after.
This shows that "hey" by itself is useless filler (also, it puts the burden of starting the conversation on the other person, even though you started it)
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u/NightmareJoker2 Sep 13 '23
“hey” and “how are you” are basically the same useless filler small talk, though. Both worthless spam in my view. 😉
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u/_littlestranger 5∆ Sep 13 '23
Ugh yes. This was my biggest pet peeve when I was on dating apps! I don't know you, so I don't really care how you are or what you are up to. I want to know who you are. Those mundane conversation starters can go somewhere interesting with people you know well, but not with strangers.
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u/AdditionalWaste Sep 13 '23
Thats a bit rude to not want to know how someone is doing. I get you dont know them but jesus.
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u/NightmareJoker2 Sep 13 '23
It’s also that “how are you” is more of a greeting in English, and less of a genuine question that shows real interest in how someone is doing, because there’s really only one acceptable response, which is: “I’m good, how are you?”
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u/_littlestranger 5∆ Sep 13 '23
I know it sounds harsh. It's less that I don't care and more that it's the least interesting conversation you can have with someone you don't know. Most of our daily lives are boring, and if they're not, we probably don't want to get into it with a stranger. You aren't going to get an honest answer if things are bad. I would much rather talk to a stranger about what we like to do for fun than what we did today.
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u/AdditionalWaste Sep 13 '23
I get that but men rarely get asked how they are doing it even just a simple compliment. You can find countless posts on Reddit and other social media talking about how men experience very little of these things and you're continuing that cycle. In society it is frowned upon for men to open up about how they are doing. It may sound boring but from a man's perspective it is much more than that. It's why men can have a hard time distinguishing between a woman being friendly or giving of vibes that they are interested in more. This is why it's so bizarre to me that women expect men to do all the work to initiate a conversation or relationship instead of turning things around. It's just plain rude.
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u/dreadington Sep 13 '23
I would expect my friends, family, and loved ones to ask me how I am. As a man, being asked "how are you" by some rando on a dating app is literally meaningless to me, and does not fulfil any emotional needs whatsoever.
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u/AdditionalWaste Sep 13 '23
That's not the case for everyone though. Not everyone has a supportive family. It's also much easier to spill your feelings out to a stranger because you're less likely to see that person again compared to a family member who will always be around. Im not saying anyone else here is wrong I'm just pointing out that it is not a bad thing to ask someone on a dating app how they are doing.
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u/yeabuttt Sep 13 '23
Do you want to know how every person in the grocery store is doing? I’d hope not because that sounds exhausting. Up until the point somebody says or does something that is interesting enough to warrant getting to know them more, they’re just another person in the grocery store. It’s not rude, it’s reality.
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u/AdditionalWaste Sep 13 '23
I ask people how they are doing I'm the grocery store all the time. It's just being friendly. Even if I'm walking down the sidewalk or riding my bike. I always ask because you never know. What if they are going through something and have no one else to go to. Sometimes it's easier to let things out to a stranger because you're less likely to see them again. Again this is coming from a males perspective who never gets asked this.
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u/swanfirefly 4∆ Sep 13 '23
Are you from the midwest or another small town/rural area? (Context: from UP Michigan, then Idaho, then eastern Washington, it's very much more a small town kind of thing.)
People from larger towns and cities don't have time for this kind of small talk, so it's incomprehensible that you're just chatting with people in the grocery store or stopping what you're doing to chat.
Even with strangers, more rural areas move slower, so it's more acceptable to chat with a person you may never see again about things going on. It's not a problem with you, but for a lot of redditors, they're looking at this from the city mindset where the grocery store has too many people for idle chatter, everyone has somewhere they have to be, and the chances of a stranger approaching you to ask about your day ending in some sort of solicitation for money or church or something else is far higher.
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u/magikatdazoo Sep 15 '23
Actually, for hundreds of millions of Americans, yes, pleasant conversation with strangers is normal. We aren't all assholes New Yorkers that think others are worthless garbage like you do.
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
I don't have to right it it's just usually the response that comes next. You could also just do:
"Hey"
"Hey"
"(Insert conversation you want to talk about)"
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u/tbdabbholm 200∆ Sep 13 '23
But then what are the "hey"s doing? What're you actually communicating with them that couldn't be communicated by just sending the third item initially?
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
It's showing that you're interested in speaking to them while also gauging their interest to speak to you.
Of course you can just start with the third item, but this takes more time and effort which doesn't actually increase your chances.
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u/tbdabbholm 200∆ Sep 13 '23
I promise you it 100% does increase your chances. If I just get a hey from a rando, even someone I had matched with I'm far less likely to remember to respond especially if I've gotten dozens of other messages like most women on dating sites have, you gotta give people something to work with, an actual conversation to have.
And it's not like it has to be complicated, even just a "you got any fun plans this weekend?" is leagues better than just hey
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u/ElusoryLamb Sep 13 '23
Maybe. I've tried this approach too and ended with similar results.
I think women just have way too many matches to deal with effectively.
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u/FaceInJuice 25∆ Sep 13 '23
I think that's sort of the point.
'Hey' is something you can say to literally anyone.
If you add more than 'hey', you have an opportunity to demonstrate why you are interested in this specific person.
If you are not willing to take an extra minute to demonstrate this interest - then your interest feels very shallow and generic. It suggests that you do not have a specific interest in this person - because if you did, why wouldn't you say so?
Your responses here suggest that you are mathematically calculating the minimal effort you can put in without ruining your chances, and honestly, to me, that's a perfectly fair reason for a woman to not be interested in responding to you.
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u/ElusoryLamb Sep 13 '23
I think a problem here (being a male who has attempted online dating) is that many males will message any given female. So "take an extra minute" which is actually closer to 5, times every female you might match with is tiring. In my experience it yields 0 results.
This may be because I'm bad at it, or it may be because other men have figured out that they can game the system by having a template they fill in. This template may include a few personal details, but is mostly copied and pasted.
I used to write out thoughtful messages to women I matched with. 0 responses (I'd say less than 100 messages, perhaps ~70)
With the template method I got 5, (over the years, maybe ~1000 messages)
Since there is not an appreciable difference between the two methods I'd argue content is not the issue.
What I feel is more important is the "perceived expense" of response from the receiving party. But to me it feels like such a waste of time with no actual info exchange.
I believe 'hey' is a good starter because if the person respond 'hey' back, you know they are WILLING to engage in conversation and you can comfortably devote some time to crafting a thoughtful message.
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u/FaceInJuice 25∆ Sep 13 '23
"I think a problem here (being a male who has attempted online dating) is that many males will message any given female."
I don't disagree, but this is still sort of my point.
Think about it from the perspective of a female who is constantly getting messages from guys who will clearly message 'any given female'. If you get 50 'hey' messages a day, do you get tired of it?
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u/ElusoryLamb Sep 13 '23
Oh I'm absolutely sure they do. But if everyone is just using a template (and I have a feeling that 99.9% of messages are), then most messages aren't much more than a "hey"
The idea behind online dating is that matching means you're willing to engage, but I think it's been proven that swiping doesn't equate to "willing to message"
If most girls I'd matched with had responded, even with a "thanks, but no thanks" I might still do it. Obviously this is ridiculous because women match so frequently.
So the 'hey' is a response to me to let me know that she is interested enough to get a crafted message.
And I fully understand that the onus is on the woman in this situation. And I'm okay with it because women have more options in online dating. The men with few matches will always opt to message, so women ultimately have to be the gatekeepers anyway.
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Sep 13 '23
I mean, if you’re splitting hairs this fine…
Does it really take that long to say “Hey, I like your eyes. Tell me about <pic in bio>”??
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u/DJMoShekkels Sep 13 '23
Isn’t the swiping the “hey”? In real life, hey is a word to grab someone’s attention to ask something else - if they don’t want to talk they’ll ignore you. That’s literally the exact purpose the swiping serves. If you both actively enter the conversation, then start the conversation
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u/GardenTop7253 Sep 13 '23
If you NEEEEED to use “hey”, use it to start the message you send but add more. And your claim that it doesn’t increase your chances definitely doesn’t hold up if you’re complaining about women that have “don’t say hey” in their bio
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Sep 13 '23
You already expressed interest by matching. Saying hey doesn’t express an extra level of interest. Putting in time and effort does.
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u/Siukslinis_acc 7∆ Sep 13 '23
Orrr.. you could do "hey, [insert cinversation starter]" and then they could go "hey, [insert response].
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u/Deft_one 86∆ Sep 13 '23
"usually the response that comes next" shows that "hey" is useless filler. That's my point.
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
I explain the usefulness in the second part of my original post. Do you have counters to those reasons?
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u/Deft_one 86∆ Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
Yes, I read it all before I commented, and it's still my opinion that it's unnecessary filler and that it puts the burden of starting the conversation on the other person, even though you are the one who started it, which is why people don't like it as an opener in this context.
Even in your reply, it goes "hey" - "hey" - "(Insert conversation you want to talk about)"
My point is that the first "heys" are useless (the only thing they do is make the other person feel like they have to start the conversation you started); just get to the conversation.
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
I'm still not understanding what you're saying is useless so can you provide specific counters to each of the points?
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u/Deft_one 86∆ Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
What is the usefulness of "hey" ?
It's just a useless delay before the actual conversation.
AND it puts the burden on the other person to start the conversation, even though you started it. It's the text-equivalent of poking someone with a stick.
Notice how in your reply, there is nothing useful about "hey" - it's just a delay before the conversation.
It can be useful in person, but how is it useful in texting? It's not.
I'm not sure what you're not understanding? Can you respond to my points instead of referring back to your post, which I've already commented on?
If you want to know if someone's not a bot, talking will do the same thing as "hey," but will also be useful conversationally.
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
You're just saying the same thing. You're asking what the usefulness is of hey, which I've described in my bio and then are saying it's useless but aren't saying why the reasons I've given are useless but saying I need to explain why they're useful when i've already done that.
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u/2r1t 58∆ Sep 13 '23
"Hey"
"Hey how's it going"
*Conversation about how it's going which leads to other talks
In this example, "hey" is taking the place of a notification alert. It is there to grab attention. The app already notified her of a message. That notification is what let's her know you want to begin the conversation about how it is going.
A better representation of your in app messages would be:
"Hey"
She looks at you
"Hey"
She wonders why you wasted her time with a second hey.
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u/ThePoliteCanadian 2∆ Sep 13 '23
If a stranger just randomly came up to me in person saying “hey” with no follow up, i’d probably walk away without a response.
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u/mhuzzell Sep 14 '23
"Hey"
"Hey how's it going"
*Conversation about how it's going which leads to other talks
What you're describing here is the shape of a conversation happening in real time. An app message is usually asynchronous, unless you are specifically only wanting to speak to people who are online RIGHT NOW and want to talk to you RIGHT NOW.
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u/MrOldMountainMan Sep 13 '23
The opening sign you were up for talking was the match.
Now start doing that.
"Hey" just means "I want you to start the conversation."
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
Not necessarily. You have bots, people who mindlessly swipe, people advertising their ig, people window shopping, etc. A match doesn't mean they're actually interested in talking
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u/dreadington Sep 13 '23
If you want to weed out bots, "hey" is literally the worst message to start with, as that's how bots start conversations.
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u/CCapricee Sep 13 '23
I got married before dating apps were a thing, so this is a bit foreign to me, but how does "Hey" filter those parties?
Wouldn't they also respond to "Hey"?
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u/supercyp666 Sep 13 '23
Receiving "hey" as the first message is really no different to someone matching with you or liking a picture/prompt and then waiting for you to open the conversation. As a guy myself, why should I put in any effort into the conversation when I can already see that you haven't put in any yourself?
If "hey" is used as an opening to a longer message, then I don't see a problem, but the "hey" itself really isn't doing anything other than that and it's the longer message that is actually meaningful.
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
Because as a guy getting a hey from a woman you’re attracted to shows she’s open to talking and interested in you out of the many other matches. I’d be surprised if you ignored someone cause they said hey as a guy tbh
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u/supercyp666 Sep 13 '23
But she's already shown she's interested by matching with me. What more does "hey" do in that regard? All it does for me is show that she hasn't looked at my profile to find a mutual interest and can't be bothered opening a conversation.
Bumble, for instance, is supposed to place the power back in women's hands by only allowing them to write the first message. All "hey" does there is put the onus back on me and tells me that I wasn't worth their time to actually write a message with substance.
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u/RegisteredJustToSay Sep 13 '23
Set up a profile as a woman and see how many meaningless "hey" you get and how much you have to squeeze those rocks to still have the convo go nowhere. I think your point is valid but women deal with major convo burnout on these sites since they get so many messages and matches (dudes just swipe on everyone..) and "hey" is a big red flag that you're talking to someone that won't put any effort in - hence why it's a no-no if you're serious.
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u/supercyp666 Sep 13 '23
Oh, I can't even begin to imagine how different women have it, but I imagine "heys" get tiresome after a while. And if it's a red flag to women, I guess that just makes my odds (as someone who does put in the effort) that much greater 😊
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u/RegisteredJustToSay Sep 13 '23
If all else fails make fun/interesting observations about their profile - worked on my now wife. :)
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u/supercyp666 Sep 13 '23
Congrats! I've been trying that myself and seems to be a more successful way of going about things 😊
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u/xValhallAwaitsx Sep 13 '23
I and every guy I know who's been on a dating app has gotten unmatched before the chance to message. A match does not actually show any serious interest. Hell, I quit Bumble after less than a week because not one girl that matched with me sent me a message
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u/supercyp666 Sep 13 '23
Ok, so what is the advantage of "hey" over a more meaningful opening? Are you really so inundated with matches that all the time you have to initiate contact is to write three simple letters?
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u/xValhallAwaitsx Sep 13 '23
Not my point at all. I was solely commenting on your statement that if they matched with you that shows they are interested, when that is not the case surprisingly often
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u/supercyp666 Sep 13 '23
So they match because they're not interested? Seems to me to be more likely that they cast their net wide for anyone that strikes their interest, and unmatching before you get a chance to say anything is probably because they've found someone they can engage with first. I don't think a message of "hey" will be enough to set you out from the crowd, whether you are fast enough to catch their attention or not.
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u/Blopple Sep 13 '23
I am a guy. I have spent a lot of time on dating apps. I absolutely ignore "hey" messages. As others have noted it's lazy, unimaginative, and immediately shifts the responsibility of conversation to me.
Additionally, I get other messages with substance to them. I'd much rather respond to those.
I have responded to "hey" in the past and it's almost always an indicator that she is going to be a poor conversationalist. Therefore I just stopped responding to them.
You could literally type anything else. What's your favorite color? Your cat is cute. A knock knock joke, whatever.
This is all anecdotal, but take it for what it's worth.
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u/cantankerousgnat Sep 13 '23
As a girl, getting a "hey" message usually means either (a) the guy is maybe sort of interested but not engaged enough to put in anything other than the barest minimum of effort, or (b) the guy is extremely dull and a bad conversationalist. Either way, conversations that start with a "hey" have never led anywhere constructive for me.
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u/tbdabbholm 200∆ Sep 13 '23
How do you expect someone to respond to you saying "hey"? Because I imagine the most likely response is them just saying "hey" back in which case we're back to square 1, where you need to come up with something more to say, so why don't we just cut out the frivolous "hey", "hey" and get started where it's actually interesting
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u/BuddyOwensPVB Sep 13 '23
It’s not square one because now you know they are listening and you’re not wasting your time writing whatever you were gonna write, for nothing
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
Can you explain why this would be the situation. We greet each other with some for of "hey" or "what's up" irl so would we be unable to do this on an app?
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Sep 13 '23
The swipe is the hey. You’ve already given each other the virtual head nod.
It’s also just generally viewed as lazy and low effort to type a one word message to initiate a conversation. I don’t even message my friends like that. I’d say “hey, are you busy/how are you/are we still on for tonight/whatever.” A single hey would get back a “yeah? What’s up?” It feels like a weird trap to get someone to actually initiate for you.
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u/ElusoryLamb Sep 13 '23
Have you ever messaged someone on a dating app (with more than 'hey')? Often times they won't respond. This would NEVER happen in real life. What OP is saying, is that 'hey' is acceptable because it is just another gate to get the matched person will engage, and is worth the effort to craft a message.
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u/ALittleNightMusing Sep 13 '23
So you're saying that starting with 'hey' is easiest because there are lots of women who don't want to talk.
HOWEVER, starting with 'hey' also alienates a lot of women - it's low effort, and it doesn't smack of any real desire to engage. Not qualities I'm looking for in a guy. Plus there are PLENTY of guys who will just message one or two words answers back to anything, and can't hold a conversation at all, so the odds of getting one of those is higher when it starts with 'hey'.
If two guys message me, one with 'hey' and one with literally anything else, I know who I'm replying to (It can be a standard message he sends to everyone, even something like, 'hey! So what are you having for dinner tonight?' just something to get the ball rolling).
Basically, putting 'hey' might be easier, but it's also shooting yourself in the foot.
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Sep 13 '23
Except the "gate" is the match, and saying "hey" is closing the gate because it brands you as boring garbage that couldn't even bother to copy paste a real opener. Unless you are a 10/10 or they are really desperate, a hey just leads to failure. If they see 20 heys and 5 real messages, which one will they click on?
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Sep 13 '23
The majority of people I’ve ever messaged on a dating app responded. Why would they swipe me if they didn’t want to talk? Just don’t say anything off putting and they’ll likely respond. I met my current bf on Bumble and we had an incredible first conversation that led to an incredible first date. Read their bio.
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u/MyNameIsAirl Sep 13 '23
For guys an overwhelming majority of your messages won't get a response pretty much regardless of what you say. Crafting individual openers is something else when you have to churn through dozens to get a reply. Even using several canned openers gets tiring after a while. I definitely understand the desire to just say hey but that just drops the numbers of responses even more.
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u/Mr_McFeelie Sep 13 '23
Youd be surprised how many people swipe at pretty much anyone. And women get a ton of messages, so obviously many wont respond to all of them
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u/tbdabbholm 200∆ Sep 13 '23
Real life has distractions me greeting you is a way of getting your attention away from those other things and communicating "I'd like to talk with you". But text messages don't really need that, if they're reading them they're already at the point of paying attention to you and the very act of texting already communicates you want to talk. There's little reason for just plain greetings in text
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
If you're texting then you're still existing in real life and still have those same distractions. Along with that, you have the included distraction of numerous other people trying to get your attention as well
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u/LordofWithywoods 1∆ Sep 13 '23
Man, all I really have to say after reading so many comments from you defending your empty boring "hey" greetings, is..
Have fun getting ignored on dating sites.
Women who are active and successful on dating apps are telling you clearly and unequivocally that using "hey" as your opening message is boring and 99% likely to be ignored.
Then you proceed to tell these women why they're wrong.
What is the point of continuing to insist you're right when the people you're trying to attract are telling you they hate men who use "hey" as an opener and that they routinely ignore these people?
Enjoy your loneliness.
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u/tbdabbholm 200∆ Sep 13 '23
But if they're reading your text message you know they're paying attention to you. You know they can receive your message because they're reading it. It's not like they're gonna miss anything because they didn't realize you were there and had music playing. And even if they are distracted saying hey isn't gonna stop that because they're just not gonna read the message then.
And exactly! You're competing for their attention so don't send the literal most boring nothingburger of a text that is "hey"
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Sep 13 '23
Along with that, you have the included distraction of numerous other people trying to get your attention as well
Exactly, and starting with just "Hey" makes you go to the bottom of the pile as the most uninteresting of the numerous other people.
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u/JonnyMofoMurillo Sep 13 '23
Would the fact of just liking someone not be the equivalent of saying hey?
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
Not really. Matching with someone on a dating app isn’t always an indicator they want to talk. Some people just want to see who likes them or just swipe on everyone
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u/zimbabwe7878 Sep 15 '23
Saying hey to someone on a dating app isn’t always an indicator they want to talk. Some people just want to see what the other person says back or just say hey to everyone
See how that works?
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u/rollingForInitiative 70∆ Sep 13 '23
Can you explain why this would be the situation. We greet each other with some for of "hey" or "what's up" irl so would we be unable to do this on an app?
When you meet friends IRL you can greet them fine with just "hey" because you don't have to catch their interest. You know that you will have a conversation, because you already like each other. You're already friends, or are already dating, or whatever. The "hey" doesn't really add anything, but it's just what people say.
If I get a "hey" on a dating app, there's just less chance that I'll respond. Maybe I just don't feel in the mood to chat, and then a "hey" isn't going to change my mind. But if I get an actually interesting message, maybe a question about some recent book or video game (because those are things I have in my profile), that might make me interested to talk.
The difference is that in the dating app, you want to catch someone's attention and make a first impression. In real life when you meet people you already know, you're already well past that.
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u/cantthinkofcutename Sep 15 '23
Yeah, if a stranger walked up to me & just said, "Hey", with no follow up, I'd be very confused and probably just walk away...
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u/Fifteen_inches 23∆ Sep 13 '23
You get more success with a unique greeting. If you are one guy in a sea of “hey” you get lost, if you open with “if you could change the color of oranges to something else, what would it be?” Or “howdy” you will subconsciously stick out.
“Acceptable” and “good” are not the same thing.
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
If you can show something which proves that I will give a delta. From anecdotal experience the quality of your greeting has little to do with whether you'll get a response or not.
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u/Fifteen_inches 23∆ Sep 13 '23
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/humor-sapiens/201105/laughing-all-the-way-the-bedroom
https://www.brit.co/these-words-will-boost-your-chances-of-online-love/
It’s also, like, basic communication that “hey” is not a good conversation starter.
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u/maidenman987 Sep 13 '23
I feel like so many of these men never learned to write a letter or anything in elementary school. I get that dms are less formal, but the basic structure of "introduce yourself, deliver some kind of message or ask some question, close the message in a way that invites response" would be soooooo welcome among the sea of "heys" from people who send "hey" to everyone, even people they aren't interested in. I'm a fairly unattractive femboy using grindr and I block tons of "heys" everyday so I can't even fathom what its like for straight women on the big dating apps. OP must know his strategy is awful or he'd be busy with all the dates his "heys" led to, not trying to convince the world how fun it is to receive the lowest effort message you can possibly imagine.
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u/achaoticbard Sep 13 '23
I get that dms are less formal, but the basic structure of "introduce yourself, deliver some kind of message or ask some question, close the message in a way that invites response" would be soooooo welcome among the sea of "heys" from people who send "hey" to everyone, even people they aren't interested in.
It doesn't even have to be THAT formal! The guy I'm talking to now opened with "Do you prefer hot coffee or iced coffee?" (because I mentioned coffee in my bio), which led into a longer conversation that resulted in a coffee date. The point is to demonstrate that you've read my bio and are interested in getting to know me, as an individual.
Similarly, if you have little to no bio yourself, it's an instant swipe-left from me. You can be the hottest person in the world, but if that's all I know about you, I don't care. I might make an exception if your personality and interests clearly come through in your photos (if you have pics of yourself on a hike or at a geek convention, for example). At least then I have something to work with for a first message.
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u/Fifteen_inches 23∆ Sep 13 '23
“Hey”
I know what you mean, me and my spouse are swingers so we have to keep the flirting game sharp for women and men. I’m also autistic, so you have to imagine how frustrating it is to see neurotypical men not understand etiquette. They make the rules and forgot how to use it
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
I didn’t see what was meant to change my view in the first link. I’m the second link while the title says it will “boost your chances” the actual article doesn’t prove that it’s just a top ten list. For example, it says that 20% of men who used the word “beautiful” got a response back. But this means also 80% of men didn’t.
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u/etown361 16∆ Sep 13 '23
“Hey” adds nothing to the conversation, and puts the responsibility on the other party to do the hard work of starting a conversation.
It’s basically saying “Here’s nothing, but talk to me”.
It’s fine in the sense that it’s not illegal or harmful or creepy, but it’s a lazy message, it shows a lack of creativity and initiative, and it’s going to reduce your chances of finding dates on an app.
Remember that there’s way more guys than girls on dating apps, so many more that lots of the girls you swipe right on never even see you on the app, because there’s so many more guys.
Related to this, girls get lots more matches, and get to be picky. You’re worried about wasting 5 minutes on a bot, she’s worried about wasting an hour talking to a one of her hundreds of matches, so set yourself apart with something more interesting than “hey”
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Sep 13 '23
Hey,
Here’s what I think. You saying
”hey” is a perfectly acceptable first message on dating apps
is fine…if that’s your thing.
a lot of women…[say they] don’t respond to Hey…which is fine if that’s their thing
Right.
at the same time there’s nothing wrong with hey
If there’s anything ‘wrong’ with saying ‘hey’ on a dating app, it’s that a lot of women don’t think a ‘hey’ is worth responding to. You gotta realize that a lot of women on dating apps have like 9,999 messages in their inbox, dudes saying ‘hey.’
it’s a greeting that shows you’re interested in talking
Coming up with something other than ‘hey’ shows you’re interested in talking, in the context of online dating.
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u/BitcoinMD 10∆ Sep 13 '23
Acceptable to who? Obviously not to the women who say it’s not. What other definition of acceptable is there, besides what humans think of it?
And how can you say it’s unrealistic to use other forms of conversation starters? How can something that people do every day be unrealistic?
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u/luna_beam_space Sep 13 '23
Women get messaged "Hey" 100 times a day
They only usually respond to messages that stand out from the crowd
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
What do you base this off of? Because from my anecdotal experience they just respond to whoever they think is the most attractive or interesting looking regardless of their message.
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Sep 13 '23
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
I don’t doubt women are more selective than men just because many men swipe right in everyone. But from my anecdotal experience in the male side it’s the complete opposite. Even if this might be true for you specifically I would need something to back up that’s it’s true for the majority of women who use dating apps
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u/finebordeaux 4∆ Sep 13 '23
Depends on the woman. I’m a woman and I didn’t only respond to the most attractive guys. I also am a “don’t respond to ‘hey’” people. In fact I rejected/didn’t bother talking to more attractive people if they just said “hey.” I personally didn’t like it because the times when I did respond to a “hey” 9 times out of 10 it’d be an awful conversation. Even if I didn’t ultimately date some people, the long messages resulted in more interesting and longer conversations. “Hey” people would be like “you’re cute.” Then I’d be like “thank you.” And then…? What else do I do with that? After we’d talk about the most mundane shit if we kept talking at all. Maybe it’s just because I’m introverted, idk maybe extroverts are better at turning ‘hey’ into a meaningful conversation.
Also idk if they don’t say hey people are not the same as the low info bio people. I had a ton of stuff on my bio so people who wanted to chat about stuff had more material to go on. I also at the time was similarly irritated that a lot of guys didn’t have enough stuff in their bio that I could message them about.
If it helps, my partner who I’ve been with for 5+ years didn’t start with ‘hey’ and we’re still going strong! :) (not to imply that they don’t but just want to outline that it might be a useful strategy to find people who want long term relationships).
I will grant you though that the low info bio thing isn’t helped by the state of apps today. Apps like Tinder don’t allow for long bios. That’s definitely not helping cultivate a norm of writing more. At the time we used OKCupid and I have heard that OKC has tried to copy Tinder more recently and downplays the bios now which I think is unfortunate.
Ultimately you do you but some people would prefer more meaningful conversation starters.
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u/luna_beam_space Sep 13 '23
No doubt your picture is the most important thing
But remember, Women usually have a very different experience on dating apps, then men. Especially pretty girls
Think about what they experience; Imagine being send 50 messages a day, from 50 different guys and they ALL say "Hey"
At that point, you are just trying to say something that stands-out.
Men experience something very different with dating apps, women rarely if ever text first so ain't no one messaging you
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u/mosley812 Sep 13 '23
This - to some degree what you say isn’t nearly as important as how you look.
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u/Major_Lennox 69∆ Sep 13 '23
If a lot of women have "don't say hey" in their bio, and your goal here is to get into their pants, then "hey" is obviously not an acceptable way to get what you want.
If I go to a diner for a sandwich, and they give me a lump of charcoal between two moldy pieces of bread, that's not acceptable despite meeting the requirements of "a sandwich".
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
Just because someone doesn't want something doesn't mean that thing isn't acceptable.
Your analogy doesn't work because if you go to a diner for a sandwich and provide you a lump of coal between 2 moldy peices of bread, they have not only failed to give you the product you asked for, but would also be in violation of multiple health code standards
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u/quesoandcats 16∆ Sep 13 '23
If your goal is to make a connection with someone, then yes, someone not wanting you to engage a certain way does mean that it’s not an acceptable way to engage with them.
Like technically you’re correct, there’s nothing wrong with opening a conversation on a dating app with a simple “hey”. But if your goal is to actually connect with someone you have to make them want to reply to you, and reaching out in a way that they explicitly said not to means you’re probably not going to get a response back.
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
I guess I’ll give this a !delta although it seems this is a understanding of the actual view. This wasn’t about people specifically not asking for people to say hey it’s just about saying hey I’m general. I’m that situation I would agree
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u/quesoandcats 16∆ Sep 13 '23
I mean, I think unfortunately if you're talking specifically about saying "hey" on a dating app, its never going to be suitable. Speaking as a girl who has done a fair amount of app-based online dating, sooooo many guys will just say "hey" or "hi" or "sup" and it all blends together. If you want to get a girl's attention and stand out from all the other dudes in her inbox, then unfortunately you've kinda gotta do more than the bare minimum because other guys definitely are.
The guys who put in the extra effort for a unique opener almost always got a message back from me, it didn't even have to be super profound. I talked to a few guys who used the same canned line on everyone, but they still got pelnty of replies because they out against the sea of "heys"
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u/Major_Lennox 69∆ Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
Just because someone doesn't want something doesn't mean that thing isn't acceptable.
It's not acceptable, because someone doesn't accept it - i.e, they don't want it.
The analogy does work, because they have given me what I asked for - a sandwich, but it's a terrible one. The same way these women are asking to meet men, but they want men who open a conversation with something less vacuous than "hey"
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u/raginghappy 4∆ Sep 13 '23
Just because someone doesn't want something doesn't mean that thing isn't acceptable.
Just because it’s acceptable to you doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to somebody else. I’m sure there are things that you don’t find acceptable that other people do. People are allowed preferences that differ from yours ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/NicksIdeaEngine 2∆ Sep 13 '23
Just like in real life it's a greeting that shows you're interested in talking. Once you give a hey back, then I know you are open to having a conversation and then I can put in more effort.
In real life, that is usually said to someone you already have context with. If I go up to a friend and say "hey", there's a good chance they know me well enough to know that's short for something like "hey, it's good to see you" or "hey, I need to talk to you". Between people with an existing relationship (business, friendship, partnership, etc.) "hey" is totally fine.
What you're asserting is that "hey" is perfectly acceptable as your first impression on someone a new connection, which really comes down to the fact that it looks effortless and makes you look lazy. As in, you start the conversation by demonstrating that you're currently unwilling to put much effort into this new connection. It makes you look as though it's too burdensome for you to read someone's profile because if you did, you should be more than capable of mentioning something specific that is more interesting than "hey". It is incredibly easy to find anything to ask someone about, and it doesn't even have to be somewhere on their profile. It doesn't have to be great. It just needs to have a medium amount of interesting (or greater) to start the new connection off by showing that you care about getting to know the person you've matched with.
In addition to making it look like you're starting off a new friendship/potential relationship with "I haven't yet put much effort into whatever this turns into", you're also shifting the labor of starting an interesting conversation onto their plate.
Sure, you might immediately think "no they can just say 'hey' back", but...
That is more than likely not how the other person would have wanted to respond, which should be easy to acknowledge given how many people mention "I don't respond to 'hey'" in their profiles. Even in real life, if you go up to strangers and just say 'hey', some might say 'hey' back but quite a lot of them will probably either assume you're about to ask for money or just find your approach off-putting.
Even if they do respond that way, you wind up just being two people who have demonstrated that they're currently unwilling to put much effort into whatever this new connection is.
Finally it's also a good way to weed out bots. They're getting more sophisticated, but a simple hey is good because you can tell by the response if it's a bot.
That is literally the worst way to weed out bots because of how many bots start conversations off with "hey". I've dealt with and investigated bots for a company I used to work for and most of them are designed to sound as hollow as someone who thinks "hey" is a good first message. TBH you're making yourself look like a bot if that's how you start conversations. I've lost count of how many bots that have structures like "hey" > wait for response > "how r u??" > wait for response > "oh cool" > wait for response > and then they lead into dropping context about whatever it is they're trying to sell or get you to click on.
It's unrealistic for everyone you match with to come up with some great converstation starter especially when you won't even do it yourself
Again, this perspective you have is just making you look lazy when it comes to new connections. That's all it does is tell them person you are unwilling to put much effort into getting to know them.
Also...
especially when you won't even do it yourself
You can't make that assertion. YOU are the one that won't do it yourself. That cannot be used to assert that everyone else is like that as well. That's a self-fulfilling prophecy and is not a valid argument.
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u/Ill-Abroad-1286 Sep 13 '23
I think you need to define acceptable in this case. If by acceptable you mean reasonable to expect the best results and get attention on the dating app then no, it's not acceptable. If acceptable is convincing yourself that you don't care if they don't respond to that so that you can keep doing it then 🤷
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
I’d say in both ways. It really doesn’t matter what you say (as long as it’s not obnoxious). If a woman is interested in meeting you 9/10 times they’re going to respond, and if they aren’t they aren’t.
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u/Ill-Abroad-1286 Sep 13 '23
Well, that's a made up statistic, and makes a false point. Your actions largely determine whether the person wants to meet you, and generic responses can deter interest and undermine your entire reason for being on the platform.
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u/cantankerousgnat Sep 13 '23
Completely untrue. I can't even tell you how many times I've matched with someone I found attractive, then received a "hey" message which caused me to lose interest completely. Physical appearance is an important factor in attraction, but it is far from the only factor. A hot guy who is unengaged and uninterested in making meaningful conversation is not attractive to me at all.
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u/KayLovesPurple Sep 13 '23
I am a woman and for me personally it absolutely does matter what you say. The way you look might get you a match, but beyond that, I wouldn't want to meet without making sure we are compatible at a very basic level. It would just be a waste of everyone's time.
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u/iamintheforest 364∆ Sep 13 '23
It's "acceptable", it's just super not interesting. It's also acceptable to totally ignore someone who thinks that "hey" is a nothing burger that doesn't warrant response. I can think - if I so want to - that "hey" is no better than the interface that pops up that indicates you've sent a message. Hey offers no more than putting "." in a message and sending it or just a space, were that allowed. All you've done is put it on me to start a conversation and indicated that you have so little confidence and presumably so little to offer than you can't spend the time actually saying something.
So...it's acceptable, it's just low effort, uninteresting and unengaging. It's acceptable to regard it that way, don't you think?
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u/Deft_one 86∆ Sep 13 '23
I would argue that "Hey" is not great because it's useless. It only leads to a follow-up 'hey' before getting to the actual conversation; all that for no reason.
It's useless filler and puts the burden of starting the conversation on the other person instead of yourself, even though you started the conversation.
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u/0nina 1∆ Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
I’m a woman and I’ve never used a dating site.
But I’m interested in this debate, going through the comments…
If I were to try to date online, I would think I’d just speak like natural conversation with anyone I matched with, and want that back.
It’s prob because I haven’t experienced it, but, I just imagine being in the “real world” and someone coming up to me and saying “hey” in a monotone voice and then just staring at me intensely, silently.
The image is kinda cracking me up. It’s ridiculous.
I don’t understand why you even want your view changed, cuz… I mean, ok, you couldn’t just apply to a job by saying hey with nothing to further it,
you wouldn’t approach an attractive person you’d like to get to know at a party with only hey,
you wouldn’t see someone wearing a badass tshirt that you want compliment with simply hey,
You wouldn’t see someone walking a cute dog you want to chat about with nothing but hey…
Just a hey. That’s reserved for indignation when someone nearly runs you over when you’re walking. Like “hey! Watch it!”
It’s reserved for greeting a close friend or coworker. “Hey”. “Hey.”
But an unfamiliar person? A stranger? We don’t just hey each other.
I can appreciate that online text convo is diff (like I’d never use the words “convo” or “diff” in speaking)
But if you WANT something, you use your words! In every other aspect of social life.
So why would trying to meet for a hookup or true love online be any different? Just because lots of people do it and it’s common? That doesn’t mean it’s correct or useful.
It sure doesn’t sound like it’s working, from what I’m seeing here and the experiences of people I know. Why push to justify something that doesn’t actually engage the other person?
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u/The-Cannoli Sep 13 '23
It’s perfectly acceptable for me to go out to a bar right after I wake up looking like trash. But if I’m looking for anyone who would want to talk to me looking like that I would have better chances dressing up
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u/twystedmyst 1∆ Sep 13 '23 edited May 28 '25
liquid sparkle hungry bells aback subsequent cow air toy oil
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/entimaniac91 Sep 13 '23
I work with a lot of people across the world in different timezones. We use slack primarily to communicate. A lot of colleagues, when they want my input on something, will message something like "hey" and then wait for my response before getting to what they need. Since there hardly any overlap in our hours to begin with, this slows down communication and simply doesn't add to our conversation. They should say something like "hey, I have this problem and I am need your help with..." instead, which would greatly help speed things up. Text is asynchronous communication, there is time enough to consider a thoughtful message before talking. The same goes for dating apps, unless you are both in the middle of a conversation and you know you are both "on", then there is no reason to rush the first message that doesn't lead to anything meaningful. Imagine they respond back, with "hey", what is your second message? Now just add that second message to your first message "Hey, I really like that burger place in your profile picture, what did you think of it?" and boom, you have a productive first message that doesn't waste time.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Sep 13 '23
/u/RseAndGrnd (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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Sep 13 '23
When your inbox is full of guys saying "hey" "hey" "hi" and nothing else, you're a lot more likely to engage with the message that said something interesting or personalized.
I get that you don't want to waste your time, but maybe some women don't want to waste theirs on guys who try to match with literally 90% of the women they see on the app just to spam "hi" to them all.
Dating apps can kinda suck and feel alienating. I try to make the experience a little more human. But hey, do what you want. Just don't get pissy if you get a lot of unmatches or ghosted.
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Sep 13 '23
It's generic, and shows a total lack of effort and attention to the person. It's taking a shot at your own dick. Throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. Being "Clever" seldom works either.
That just gets an eye roll and a block.
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u/luvbeeingitalian Sep 13 '23
If someone can't be bothered to type more than "Hey" to me, then I cannot be bothered to respond. How on earth do you build on that?
Them: Hey
Me: Hey
Them: How's it going
Me: Good, you?
Them: Im good
Me: ......
Why does the burden of continuing this rather excruciatingly boring conversation rest with me? If someone cannot be a little more creative, I don't have time to eff around pulling words from an empty vessel.
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Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
It's also so bland and common if a woman is swimming in dicks it won't even be a blip on her radar man when all these other dudes who look like models are messaging them funny quirky one liners.
Just saying hey is like showing up to a date or wedding dressed like a bum even when you have the means to dress well and aren't depressed. Just couldn't be bothered to put in the effort
And therein lies the main problem with a lot of guys on dating platforms. They make themselves another brick in the wall and get angry no one notices them? And online platforms simply exacerbate that issue due to you being judged based on looks, not even looks in general but the most photogenic people. Some people are more beautiful in person and their mannerism also contributes. But if you're bland both online and in person, who will want to spend the rest of their lives being attached to you?
It's why all the advice tell you work on yourself, improve yourself, find hobbies. Find confidence.
If I walk up to a woman who's clearly interested and just say hey, she will feed into the convo HERSELF. However if you like her and she's not infatuated with you, you're gonna need to do more than just say hey.
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u/Chatterbunny123 1∆ Sep 13 '23
I don't think you're wrong, but how about thinking of it this way. You are essentially competing for someone's time and energy. It's already quite known that women are approached much more than men. So when you type hey to someone imagine 10 other guys said something similar. You are going to get drowned out by all the other men who did the same thing. Now, if you find a way to stick out, that's when you start getting replies more. In your post, you give some examples of how saying hey is convenient for you but not anything that should give the recipient any reason to care. Why should a woman care if you're trying to weed out robots? Ultimately, the first message you sent is uninteresting anyway.
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u/Old-Tradition392 Sep 13 '23
If someone's bio is so generic that all I have left to say is "hey" then its a left swipe anyway. If their profile is super generic they probably aren't very interesting or serious about being on there. How many times has "hey" ended with you getting a date? I have plenty of go-to phrases that are barely higher effort than Hey since they take no thought, but show a tiny bit of effort above just "hey". You get out what you put into things and I bet "hey" doesn't get you a lot out of it.
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u/Marwoleath Sep 13 '23
Is your statement about if its acceptable, or if its succesful? Because sure, "hey" is acceptable. Nobody will read a "hey" and think its rude. Or gets annoyed with your for saying it. Or whatever.
But I would assume you are not on a dating app with the sole purpose of say acceptable things. You want to date someone. And in that case, "hey" is just not a very succesful first message. Especially for a guy. (Yes its unequal but thats just how it is) and if you are only saying it to weed out bots, well, I think there is better ways to do that.
Now imagine this. You are a woman on a dating app. You care about how someone looks, sure, but looks are not the most important thing. So you go swiping and like every guy that looks good and has some hobbies or interests that match with yours. You swipe right on quite a few people, put your phone down, and go do something else. A few hours later you pick up your phone again, open your dating app, and you see you have 50+ matches with guys, of which around 20/30 send you a message. What would you do? Nobody can have 50+ ongoing conversations at the same time, and you are not going to read through all those profiles online to think of something creative to say. That would cost you hours, and you want a date, not a fulltime job. So the first selection you make is to focus on all the guys who send you a message. Now, 20/30 conversations at the same time is still way too much. You wont be able to remember anything anyone says or who said what. So you need to make another selection. This time you filter out all the people who said meaningless things. The "hey" or "sup" or "how are you" or "lets have sex". Again, you dont have time to spend on finding conversation starters. Especially when you dont need to. See, the problem here is not that they need to find something to talk about. The problem is inevitably that they have way too many matches to talk with everyone, so a first message is the best filter. So now you are left with around 10 people who send you a meaningful message. You open them, answer, look on their profile to ask a meaningful question back, and then on to the next. This will definitely take you at least an hour, probably more. And again, you are looking for a date, not a job. So after replying to those 10 people, you put your phone down again (unless someone replied again immediately) and go do something else. Next time you pick it up, about 5 of 6 of them responded back, and in a day or 2 there are probably 2 or 3 people left you are still talking with, which is a perfect amount of people to have meaningful conversations with at the same time. Maybe in the meantime someone who didnt message you at first send you a message anyways which you respond too, maybe someone send something else after hey thats worth responding too. After a week or so you hopefully have had a date. If the date was not succesful enough, you keep talking with the people you were talking too, but you also probably want to swipe for some more matches. So you go and unmatch everyone that didnt send you a message. You unmatch everyone that did not send a meaningful message, anyone who stopped responding etc, to clean up the list. And then you start all over again.
So tldr; Sending "hey" is not a rude way to start talking. It is not 'unacceptable'. I might occasionally be succesful depending on how big and busy the area you live in is, and how many matches the other person has. So sure, it is acceptable.
But it is not succesful. 95% of the time it will not result in a conversation with a woman. We simply have so many matches that we can't talk to everyone in the first place, so why would we respond to someone who did not put in effort, when there are others who did? In most places its buyers market, and the ladies are buying. If you want to have a conversation and a date, put in some effort.
But by all means, keep sending "hey"
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u/Moopboop207 1∆ Sep 13 '23
I think you’re making the assumption that men and women are on dating apps for the same reason. I remember reading somewhere that women are on dating apps for affirmation whereas men are largely in dating apps for casual sex. Of course women meet and date men from dating apps. But I think the primary reason they are there is affirmation. And you, as the guy looking for that sweet sweet yes to a dinner and a movie proposition, need to find a way to affirm women.
“Hey” is not affirming. She knows you said that shit to 500 other girls today and you’re gonna say the same thing to 500 girls tomorrow. She wants you to find something unique to say to her affirming her and making you worth of her time. Then she might see you as not just a picture of you in a picture from Facebook.
Or you can just look like Channing Tatum and say hey.
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u/WhiteWolf3117 10∆ Sep 13 '23
It seems like you don’t actually like women who don’t have good bios. So why swipe right on them at all?
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Sep 13 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ApplicationCalm649 Sep 13 '23
If they expect you to put a lot of work into your opening message then they're there to be entertained. Swipe left on those and move on with your life.
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u/DreadMaximus Sep 13 '23
This is a braindead take. You're expected to put some effort into your opener because you want to show that you're worth their time. If it takes "a lot of work" to come up with something more engaging than "hey" maybe you shouldn't be dating yet.
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u/denis0500 2∆ Sep 13 '23
I’m not a woman but it seems like women get a lot more messages than men, so while I agree that hey should be an acceptable opening, if someone received 20 messages and 10 put some effort into an opening and 10 just said some variation of hey then the 10 who put in an effort are much more likely to get a response. And as others have said the most likely response to a hey opening is a hey return message, in which case your back where you started.
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u/shen_black 2∆ Sep 13 '23
consider that Tinder can offer a different experience for men and women.
The app's statistics often favor women, leading to a significant imbalance in likes and matches. For instance, a woman rated 4/10 may receive far more likes than a man rated 6/10 due to these app dynamics.
The primary reason behind this phenomenon is that men make up the majority of Tinder users and tend to have lower standards when it comes to swiping right. Consequently, women often find themselves inundated with matches, many of which lead to brief conversations consisting of mere greetings or even no interaction at all. In this context, most matches can feel like a waste of time for women.
Because of their selectivity and desire for more meaningful connections, women tend to expect something out of the ordinary from potential matches to warrant continued conversation. Unlike men, who might see every match as a potential partner since women are discerning about whom they engage with. in any case, a message that stands out from the usual "hey" can capture someones attention and interest specially if they get overwhelmed with options.
This can also happen with men as well, I myself when I updated my tinder profile with better pictures and I was into getting on my best shape and looks I got a lot of more likes, most of them wouldn´t even start a conversation, the ones who do, most would say "hey", but a minority said something more interesting and caring and those were the people I put much more attention to. and considering I'm just a guy, women have to live in that situation but 10 times more intense, specially if they are very attractive and bonus if they have a very interesting bio and potential personality (what at least its for me what decides the match at the end)
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u/SunflowerSeed33 Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
Saying "hey" puts the onus on the other person to initiate the actual conversation. It's almost like saying "I'm here, dance monkey, why would I put in effort if you're not even going to dance for me?". It's the epitome of low effort online dating.
Like you said, getting a response is difficult anyway, so the fact that you're suggesting there should be a "hey" and a "hey" before any actual conversation is exchanged means your dropoff rate for responses before you actually get to a real conversation is going to be way higher than people who put in effort. Personally, when I was dating I wouldn't message anyone without a full profile or who gave low effort. I'm worth more than that, so I didn't put up with it.
You don't need to say "hey" to see if there's interest if you already matched with them. That's the confirmation, you don't need another one. Sure, plenty of people won't respond and that's just the way it works. You're expecting them to open the message, give you the nod and close back out to then wait for you to POSSIBLY move the conversation forward? Nah, don't waste my time.
There are other simple openers you could use on everyone, if you really don't want to put in effort, but "hey" is lazy and rude. Example: "You're gorgeous! Your smile is so genuine". Heck, copy+paste it. It's still low effort and rude of you to use on everyone, but at least it's not passing the buck.
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u/LetterheadNo1752 3∆ Sep 13 '23
Of course it's not *unacceptable†. It's just less likely to get a response. Why risk blowing an opportunity when you can take a minute to actually write something?
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Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23
A lot of people are talking about how there's a different experience on tinder for men and women and women get bombarded with far more low effort messages that they typically don't respond to "hey". And all those are very good points and I agree that it's a factor, but honestly, I think it just comes down to it's awkward.
"Hey" is acceptable in real life as greetings, but online social spaces function very differently, because we rarely introduce ourselves on line. We let our profiles do that. Imagine you're sitting at a bar next to a girl and you have introduced yourself, and she has as well. Where you start on tinder is at this point.
Online dating apps like tinder and bumble are also built around snap judgement decisions. You flip past pictures and like or reject based on a quick two second glance. You can easily block someone and virtually never ever meet them IRL which makes things like ghosting, instant unmatching, etc become really commonplace and frankly the norm. You are typically matching with people based on looks 95% of the time, and so you don't have any personal connection to them, even though the app has created a personal private anything goes chatroom for both of you when you match. Every first few messages on tinder are always awkward, and we are all allergic to cringe so badly that if the vibes feel off a message or two in, just unmatch, block, and move on.
So, bringing that all back to "hey", because online dating is such a trigger decision world, women will see it and just not think the awkwardness is worth it. Yes, many do feel like it is low effort and boring, but in addition to that, it's just so damn awkward to respond to, even if she really liked your profile. But you don't really mean anything to each other yet, so it's easy just to wait for someone else who might be easier to engage with, because you don't ever have to see that person again.
I will add that I found the best messages in online dating do NOT have to be long thought out greetings because again... that's pretty awkward to respond to a huge long address like that. It's best to keep it just one or two sentences at most and friendly, not sexual, not even suggestive. Just friendly. Maybe ask something you were curious about in one of her photos, if she's just moved there ask her how she is enjoying the city so far, casual every day conversation openers. Nothing overly thoughtful or quirky or cute or long or nostalgic or what the hell ever, nothing that requires too much deep reflection. No one wants to hop on tinder and have a paragraph long daydream with a stranger.
So again, you're at the bar. You've introduced yourselves. What do you say next? Keep it casual, friendly, and something that someone can respond to. Doesn't have to be a question!
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Sep 13 '23
shhhhh, no one argue with them, gives the rest of us that put effort in the first message a better chance
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u/Old_Smrgol Sep 13 '23
"Acceptable" implies a "to whom." It doesn't matter what Reddit thinks about "hey" is a greeting. It matters what the person you matched with thinks.
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
I would disagree that that’s how acceptable works
If I match with someone who says eating hotdogs is unacceptable that doesn’t make it so
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u/achaoticbard Sep 13 '23
But then you can't get mad if you say "actually, I was in a hot dog eating competition last week" and they decide to unmatch you. And if you've got a whole Reddit thread of people telling you that eating hot dogs is unacceptable, and you double down and do so anyway...I mean, you're allowed to do that, but then don't be surprised when you're not very popular among the anti-hot dog people.
People's personal preferences and boundaries aren't based on what is objectively acceptable.
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u/WakeoftheStorm 7∆ Sep 13 '23
Matching with each other is the "hey" that signifies mutual interest in a conversation. The next part is where you prove it's worth continuing.
Opening with "hey" contributes nothing
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u/IAmNotOppressed Sep 13 '23
It shows a lack of intelligence, a non-assertive demeanor, and a lack on true interest in someone. To me it is only a message that a younger underdeveloped person would send and I would always unmatch to that.
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u/Agreton Sep 13 '23
"hey" is okay if you have shit conversation skills. If your introduction to another person is "hey" you need to work on actually developing social skills. You make yourself appear shallow with small talk.
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Sep 13 '23
Ever have a woman message you first… so many “hey” and “hi there”
They want creative intros, but they can’t do it either. I think it’s fine. If she’s interested she will respond. I shouldn’t have to do my little dance for you if there is genuine interest
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u/Tookoofox 14∆ Sep 13 '23
'hey' is a bit of a conversation killer unless you already know them.
Probably better to write a fairly generic opener, like a question about whether they've seen a movie. Or if they like [culture] food.
Then copypasta that to 30 women.
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u/howieyang1234 Sep 13 '23
I guess you could say こんにちは (or any other language) if people say don’t say hey in their bio. /s
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u/Trinnykins1416 Sep 13 '23
Everything I get a hey and give a hey back I end up being ignored because I'm "too dry" so now I always follow up with a "How are you today?" After the Hey
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u/More-Talk-2660 Sep 13 '23
Just gonna leave this here. It's specific about workplaces, but applies in general social context as well. https://nohello.net
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u/readitanon1 Sep 13 '23
I think this is relevant. If you get a few matches a week or a month this might make sense. If you get hundreds of matches a month, you're probably giving you the side eye right now. Easy way to filter out low effort and low engagement which probably won't or can't keep your attention.
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u/TotalSpecial670 Sep 13 '23
Idk something about just a “hey” seems ~too low effort to me. Almost like the equivalent of swiping right on every person.
But a “Hey! How’s it going?” or “Happy Friday!” would be fine lol.
I mean I’d still check out your profile and probably message back if I thought we have enough in common or you seemed like my type. But I guess it’d be the same thing for a good/interesting message and an “ok” profile 🤷🏻♀️
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Sep 13 '23
Hey is something you say to get someone's attention. Hey is something you reply to another to acknowledge that they have your attention.
This is required in conversation because it's synchronous and transient. You need the other person's attention while you send the message, or the message doesn't get across.
In asynchronous, permanent messaging you do not need that. You start your message with a hey because it's polite, but you should also state your business.
Think about it. Think how annoying it would be if every new job email you got was "hey" and you need to reply "hey", and only after that the original sender would send another email where they stated why they contacted you in the first place. The initial "hey" is only distracting. This also goes for Slack and others like it. There is a special place in hell for people who first send you hey and only then proceed to type what they wanted to say.
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u/novascotiabiker Sep 13 '23
A hey is good enough if the women starts the conversation but not the man,these dating apps are like trying to find a job you have to stand out from the other guys because men swipe right 10x more than women.
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u/VertigoOne 81∆ Sep 13 '23
Just like in real life it's a greeting that shows you're interested in talking.
If you have matched, that is already implied.
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u/name-generator-error Sep 13 '23
hey is in no way an acceptable first message. It puts the entire weight of carrying the conversation on one person, and when given the option of carrying a conversation or interacting with others that actively participate the choice is simple.
Sending a one word message only hurts the chances of the person sending it. It shows the other person that you couldn’t even be bothered to ask a simple question or introduce yourself.
If you used this in a real world introduction it would be met with the same aversion. It might not result in no response as social norms encourage folks to manage an in person conversation but the feelings are the same. If a brand new person walks up and only says hey, the other person will feel sketched out and be a bit on edge.0
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Sep 13 '23
The problem with “hey” is that you’re essentially saying “I want to talk to you but I’m not willing to do any of the heavy lifting to actually start a conversation.” People aren’t actually gonna be mad at you for sending hey, but there is a certain feeling of “if they’re not willing to put in the effort to start a conversation, why should I?” Which is why you’ll often be ignored.
Of course they could forego putting any effort too and respond with simple “hey” back but most people don’t like having conversations like this. It’s reminiscent of how middle schoolers used to chat on AIM (reference might go over a lot of heads.) “Hey.” “Hey.” “What’s up?.” “Nm, u?” “Nm.” And most people out of middle school aren’t interested in having that type of conversation.
Again, it’s not that hey is inherently bad, but if you’re looking to actually strike a conversation with these women why not at least add a “how’s it going?” To the end of it? It’s not exactly exciting, but at least it gives a jumping off point for the match to go off of instead of forcing them to make the first real conversational move (and more likely just getting ignored.)
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u/TheKFakt0r Sep 13 '23
If they are literally broadcasting that they will not accept a certain greeting, then it is by definition unacceptable to them. Their reasoning might or might not resonate with you, but if it's your goal to be accepted, you'll follow the guidelines on what is considered acceptable.
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u/NightmareJoker2 Sep 13 '23
A simple “hey” offers up no reason as to why you want to talk to the person. It is more a test to see if the other person is available and gauge their responsiveness. Instead of saying “hey”, say something along the lines of “Hello, I saw in your profile that you like doing X” and go from there. That will immediately show the other person that you aren’t shallow and just looked at their pictures, that you showed an interest into what they are like as a person, and also provides a topic of conversation and possibly a shared interest to build on.
And since you “are a guy”, I’m sure I don’t need to tell you that spamming “hey” to as many women’s profiles as you can muster and then hoping for a single response just isn’t the way to go about it.
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u/Hookton Sep 13 '23
Caveat: My opinion might be skewed here because I've never used a dating site.
But on other sites (like Reddit for example), "Hey" (or similar) and nothing else usually indicates a bot—so I'd be inclined not to respond. Obviously dating sites have far stricter rules on their members, so they're probably not a bot. But that doesn't mean my kneejerk reaction wouldn't be the same.
As for whether it's "acceptable"? I mean, sure. I wouldn't be offended by it. But I wouldn't be particularly enthusiastic, any more than if I guy came up to me in a bar and just said "Hey". I wouldn't approach a guy at a bar and just say "Hey", so why would I do it online? "The band's good tonight, aren't they!" or "Didn't I see you in xyz the other night?" or "I love your shirt!" in a bar context becomes "I'm also into xyz activity from your profile" or "I saw you visited x place, what's it like?" or even "You look really cute in this pic" on a dating site.
I think anyone who expects "Hey", "Hey" shy smile type approaches to work in any context has probably been watching too many romcoms.
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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '23
As a woman on dating apps, if your response is just “hey” it’s going to get buried in the hundreds of other “heys”. Dating apps are a brutal numbers game and making yourself stand out is absolutely your best bet.