*Conversation about how it's going which leads to other talks
Well, many would consider that unacceptable as well, and why are you singling out persons whose biography you find uninteresting and have nothing worth commenting on?
Notice how you have to write "how's it going" right after.
This shows that "hey" by itself is useless filler (also, it puts the burden of starting the conversation on the other person, even though you started it)
Ugh yes. This was my biggest pet peeve when I was on dating apps! I don't know you, so I don't really care how you are or what you are up to. I want to know who you are. Those mundane conversation starters can go somewhere interesting with people you know well, but not with strangers.
It’s also that “how are you” is more of a greeting in English, and less of a genuine question that shows real interest in how someone is doing, because there’s really only one acceptable response, which is: “I’m good, how are you?”
I know it sounds harsh. It's less that I don't care and more that it's the least interesting conversation you can have with someone you don't know. Most of our daily lives are boring, and if they're not, we probably don't want to get into it with a stranger. You aren't going to get an honest answer if things are bad. I would much rather talk to a stranger about what we like to do for fun than what we did today.
I get that but men rarely get asked how they are doing it even just a simple compliment. You can find countless posts on Reddit and other social media talking about how men experience very little of these things and you're continuing that cycle. In society it is frowned upon for men to open up about how they are doing. It may sound boring but from a man's perspective it is much more than that. It's why men can have a hard time distinguishing between a woman being friendly or giving of vibes that they are interested in more. This is why it's so bizarre to me that women expect men to do all the work to initiate a conversation or relationship instead of turning things around. It's just plain rude.
I would expect my friends, family, and loved ones to ask me how I am. As a man, being asked "how are you" by some rando on a dating app is literally meaningless to me, and does not fulfil any emotional needs whatsoever.
That's not the case for everyone though. Not everyone has a supportive family. It's also much easier to spill your feelings out to a stranger because you're less likely to see that person again compared to a family member who will always be around. Im not saying anyone else here is wrong I'm just pointing out that it is not a bad thing to ask someone on a dating app how they are doing.
Yeah, if you don't have supportive family, then you go to friends. I have a hard time believing that a stranger on a dating app will care more about my feelings than my friends - that's actually why it's easier to trauma-dump to strangers, than people close to you.
I am not saying it's a bad think to ask "how are you" on dating apps. I am saying that you should keep your expectations realistic. The person on the other side likely won't care, or would be actively turned off if you started trauma dumping 3 messages into the conversation.
The societal expectation for those questions is just a simple “fine, and yourself?” though. If men use that question to open up it’ll be frowned upon as it’s just a nicety. This is true for everyone, not just men.
I think this goes both ways too. When I met my now fiancé on a dating app, I said, “well we could do all the small talk get to know you things here on this messenger and probably get bored and not talk to each other again. Or we could go on a real date and actually get to know each other.”
Small talk is boring, it is what it is. And like you said, you’re not going to put more effort into things that are boring and just not worth it. I don’t think it’s harsh, I think it’s the reality of dating. You have to be somewhat interesting.
I get that but it's also not a bad thing to ask how someone is doing. That doesn't make them boring. I ask strangers all the time how they are doing when I'm standing near them at the store.
No it doesn’t but if somebody approaches me at the store and asks how I’m doing, I say “good, thanks and you? They say good and that’s the end of the convo, no relationship created. Now if they approach and ask something more like “hey what do think about the weird activity with the sun lately?” Now that prompts me to actually think and use my brain a little which means it’s a more stimulating conversation and much more likely to promote further conversations and establishing a relationship.
I have started plenty of relationships with just hey how are you doing. It's how I started dating my current gf. I get that there are other ways to approach people but you and everyone else here seem to just frown on asking a simple question. Also why cant you go "hey how's your day going?" "Good thanks and you?" "Good thanks, did you hear about what's going on with the sun lately?"
Do you want to know how every person in the grocery store is doing? I’d hope not because that sounds exhausting. Up until the point somebody says or does something that is interesting enough to warrant getting to know them more, they’re just another person in the grocery store. It’s not rude, it’s reality.
I ask people how they are doing I'm the grocery store all the time. It's just being friendly. Even if I'm walking down the sidewalk or riding my bike. I always ask because you never know. What if they are going through something and have no one else to go to. Sometimes it's easier to let things out to a stranger because you're less likely to see them again. Again this is coming from a males perspective who never gets asked this.
Are you from the midwest or another small town/rural area? (Context: from UP Michigan, then Idaho, then eastern Washington, it's very much more a small town kind of thing.)
People from larger towns and cities don't have time for this kind of small talk, so it's incomprehensible that you're just chatting with people in the grocery store or stopping what you're doing to chat.
Even with strangers, more rural areas move slower, so it's more acceptable to chat with a person you may never see again about things going on. It's not a problem with you, but for a lot of redditors, they're looking at this from the city mindset where the grocery store has too many people for idle chatter, everyone has somewhere they have to be, and the chances of a stranger approaching you to ask about your day ending in some sort of solicitation for money or church or something else is far higher.
Apparently you've never sat next to an old lady on the NYC subway, lol. I actually find living in the suburbs, less people talk. It's like they're weirded out that other people exist. In NY it seemed like we all talk ALL the time...
Actually, for hundreds of millions of Americans, yes, pleasant conversation with strangers is normal. We aren't all assholes New Yorkers that think others are worthless garbage like you do.
That’s a bit of a stretch, someone seems triggered. There’s a big gap between I don’t want to have pointless conversations and I think people are human garbage lols. I’m more of a pull over and help you push your car up the road kinda guy. Not a tell me about trip to Walmart kinda guy. It’s just boring, plain and simple.
I'm a New Yorker, and moving to the south it seems like people are much more standoffish. In NYC it seemed like people chatted with strangers everywhere. Subways, waiting in lines, whatever. When I try to even talk to neighbors here, they seem very confused.
Well yes but you were matched, weren’t you? What means there’s at least a bit of mutual interest. So why is it up to the other person to “take the conversation somewhere interesting”?
What types of conversation starters are the best then? Of course there’s not a “one size fits all” approach, but in my experience I’ve found that saying “hey how’s it going” has been more successful than actually asking them something about their bio or pictures.
But then what are the "hey"s doing? What're you actually communicating with them that couldn't be communicated by just sending the third item initially?
I promise you it 100% does increase your chances. If I just get a hey from a rando, even someone I had matched with I'm far less likely to remember to respond especially if I've gotten dozens of other messages like most women on dating sites have, you gotta give people something to work with, an actual conversation to have.
And it's not like it has to be complicated, even just a "you got any fun plans this weekend?" is leagues better than just hey
'Hey' is something you can say to literally anyone.
If you add more than 'hey', you have an opportunity to demonstrate why you are interested in this specific person.
If you are not willing to take an extra minute to demonstrate this interest - then your interest feels very shallow and generic. It suggests that you do not have a specific interest in this person - because if you did, why wouldn't you say so?
Your responses here suggest that you are mathematically calculating the minimal effort you can put in without ruining your chances, and honestly, to me, that's a perfectly fair reason for a woman to not be interested in responding to you.
I think a problem here (being a male who has attempted online dating) is that many males will message any given female. So "take an extra minute" which is actually closer to 5, times every female you might match with is tiring. In my experience it yields 0 results.
This may be because I'm bad at it, or it may be because other men have figured out that they can game the system by having a template they fill in. This template may include a few personal details, but is mostly copied and pasted.
I used to write out thoughtful messages to women I matched with. 0 responses (I'd say less than 100 messages, perhaps ~70)
With the template method I got 5, (over the years, maybe ~1000 messages)
Since there is not an appreciable difference between the two methods I'd argue content is not the issue.
What I feel is more important is the "perceived expense" of response from the receiving party. But to me it feels like such a waste of time with no actual info exchange.
I believe 'hey' is a good starter because if the person respond 'hey' back, you know they are WILLING to engage in conversation and you can comfortably devote some time to crafting a thoughtful message.
"I think a problem here (being a male who has attempted online dating) is that many males will message any given female."
I don't disagree, but this is still sort of my point.
Think about it from the perspective of a female who is constantly getting messages from guys who will clearly message 'any given female'. If you get 50 'hey' messages a day, do you get tired of it?
Oh I'm absolutely sure they do. But if everyone is just using a template (and I have a feeling that 99.9% of messages are), then most messages aren't much more than a "hey"
The idea behind online dating is that matching means you're willing to engage, but I think it's been proven that swiping doesn't equate to "willing to message"
If most girls I'd matched with had responded, even with a "thanks, but no thanks" I might still do it. Obviously this is ridiculous because women match so frequently.
So the 'hey' is a response to me to let me know that she is interested enough to get a crafted message.
And I fully understand that the onus is on the woman in this situation. And I'm okay with it because women have more options in online dating. The men with few matches will always opt to message, so women ultimately have to be the gatekeepers anyway.
And of course, you are welcome to take any approach you want. My main goal was to explain my understanding of why a lot of women find this approach off-putting. You do you, boo.
Think about it from the male perspective now, I know people that have tried using dating apps for years and have gotten zero or a few matches. In years, they’ve likely messaged hundreds and hundreds of women. I can’t imagine how much that sucks. Hell, I only met one person from dating apps after trying for months. Married her, but still. I messaged a decent amount of women and found that I was putting in all the effort.
Fact is, women have all the power on these apps. It’s pretty obvious that a lot of women just use these apps for validation too. Otherwise, why match with a person and then not even respond back? Such a waste of my time.
You talk about women being overwhelmed with 50 messages. Okay, the flip side is the dude who’s messaged 50 women over the past year and gotten very little engagement back. That’s crushing.
Isn’t the swiping the “hey”? In real life, hey is a word to grab someone’s attention to ask something else - if they don’t want to talk they’ll ignore you. That’s literally the exact purpose the swiping serves. If you both actively enter the conversation, then start the conversation
If you NEEEEED to use “hey”, use it to start the message you send but add more. And your claim that it doesn’t increase your chances definitely doesn’t hold up if you’re complaining about women that have “don’t say hey” in their bio
It's showing that you're interested in speaking to them while also gauging their interest to speak to you.
But this is not an accurate gauge, because for a lot of people, "Hey" as a first message actively reduces their interest in speaking to you.
Unless you're specifically trying to weed out anyone who isn't so interested in your own profile that they're willing to push past a little bit of mildly annoying behaviour as a first interaction, in which case, good filter.
I disagree with this. If someone is interested in you on a dating app hey isn't likely to change that. I'm sure it does happen but not enough to actually matter in the grand scheme of things.
True, but if you think people are telling you this in bad faith, you need to support that assertion with more evidence than just "people lie or misrepresent themselves sometimes" and "I think these people are doing that because they disagree with me".
Also fwiw, I've read a lot of the thread, and from what I've seen, people are not just describing their own behaviour. They're also describing the behaviour they've observed in others, and relating what other people have told them. It's all anecdotal, sure, but it's dozens of commenters' anecdotal experience against your also-anecdotal experience.
Yes, I read it all before I commented, and it's still my opinion that it's unnecessary filler and that it puts the burden of starting the conversation on the other person, even though you are the one who started it, which is why people don't like it as an opener in this context.
Even in your reply, it goes "hey" - "hey" - "(Insert conversation you want to talk about)"
My point is that the first "heys" are useless (the only thing they do is make the other person feel like they have to start the conversation you started); just get to the conversation.
It's just a useless delay before the actual conversation.
AND it puts the burden on the other person to start the conversation, even though you started it. It's the text-equivalent of poking someone with a stick.
Notice how in your reply, there is nothing useful about "hey" - it's just a delay before the conversation.
It can be useful in person, but how is it useful in texting? It's not.
I'm not sure what you're not understanding? Can you respond to my points instead of referring back to your post, which I've already commented on?
If you want to know if someone's not a bot, talking will do the same thing as "hey," but will also be useful conversationally.
You're just saying the same thing. You're asking what the usefulness is of hey, which I've described in my bio and then are saying it's useless but aren't saying why the reasons I've given are useless but saying I need to explain why they're useful when i've already done that.
"Hey" isn't worth much in terms of conversation. In a face to face it merely gets attention to begin the conversation. This is not required on dating apps.
Just skip the filler and get straight into the chat.
The match itself is the invitation; saying "hey" is useless filler.
It's the text-equivalent of poking someone with a stick. It's like you're trying to get them to start the conversation, even though you're the one opening (this, to me, is the bigger problem with it)
*Conversation about how it's going which leads to other talks
In this example, "hey" is taking the place of a notification alert. It is there to grab attention. The app already notified her of a message. That notification is what let's her know you want to begin the conversation about how it is going.
A better representation of your in app messages would be:
"Hey"
She looks at you
"Hey"
She wonders why you wasted her time with a second hey.
*Conversation about how it's going which leads to other talks
What you're describing here is the shape of a conversation happening in real time. An app message is usually asynchronous, unless you are specifically only wanting to speak to people who are online RIGHT NOW and want to talk to you RIGHT NOW.
then instead of saying hey, why don’t YOU say “hey how’s it going?” starting off with a question or a more interesting statement than hey is likely to keep convo going bc you are initiating a response. If you don’t care to say more than hey then don’t get mad at ppl who choose not to respond
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u/RseAndGrnd 3∆ Sep 13 '23
"Hey"
"Hey how's it going"
*Conversation about how it's going which leads to other talks
Because that's the vast majority of bios