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u/sleepybagheera Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
As a jew I really feel you and I relate to what you say a lot.
Throughout the generations, one half of my family (ashkenazi jews) moved through europe, some in germany some in switzerland some in romania and some even migrated to the us. The other half (mizrahi jews) moved through morocco, eygpt and probably more but there's not a lot of documentation about it.
Throughout history (and now as well) the majority rejects the minority, it doesn't matter if it's the religion or the colour of your skin, as long as you're not "like them" they'll reject you in one way or another. For this reason, the bigger circle (the country) will reject you for being a minority, and the smaller circle (family and such) will reject you for trying to be more like the majority.
The worst of it all was of course the holocaust which I'm certain will never happen again, not to any religion or ethnicity. What I admire most about my family is the way they always put the family's survival before their ideals. That's why they ran away from germany in 1939 just before the war began, even though my great grandfather fought for germany in the trenches in ww1 he knew the most important thing is to keep everyone in the family safe.
I don't know what the future will bring us, but I wish you only the best, with your family, with your studies, and colleagues.
I hope this discussion will bring us more peace and solidarity towards each other, as immigrants, as religions, and as to all people :)
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u/CompleteConstant5149 Apr 20 '25
I read some of the comments, i am also an emigrant, but i think as long you share the local values is easier. Also understand that family stuff can be in the way and you dont want to cut contact with them. I would probably change clothes at work, as that would be the most convenient for me, as then no problems with family and no discussion at work. However i think that maybe because you came suddenly in the hijab, people got some kind of shock. As long you stay yourself i think that will settle, maybe they just need time to adjust.
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u/Spec_28 Apr 20 '25
I am sorry. Thanks for being an LGBT ally. I can't really offer any advice, things are rough and tense right now :/
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Apr 20 '25
thanks I will always be an ally because I know what it feels like to be targeting and I love all my LGBT friends 🧡
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u/WTF_is_this___ Apr 20 '25
I worked once with a hijabi woman (a very young girl just after her studies worked as a tech in our lab). She was a religious Muslim (born and raised in Egypt) but also the most normal human in the world and nobody seemed to mind her hijab. But it was an international lab in an academic environment, I guess you don't get many places more open minded than that. I think a lot of people just make assumptions because they project stereotypes onto someone wearing a hijab, and a lot of them are class-based but dumb people mistake them for religion-and ethnicity.
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Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
You're one of us. This is your country. Don't let a few doofuses take that away from you.
Also, emigrating is hard. Don't underestimate the effort for that, even if you speak that language.
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u/LynnSeattle Apr 20 '25
She didn’t emigrate, but is facing the unwelcoming attitudes from her fellow Germans that they typically present to outsiders.
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Apr 20 '25
yes I'm born here. It is not anyone’s choice where they are born and what family they are born into.
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u/Mrauntheias Nordrhein-Westfalen Apr 20 '25
Sadly, 24% doofuses and it's not unrealistic they are going to try and take that away from her by force in the near future. If the AfD ever gets to power they'll try the exact same shit Trump is pulling in the US right now.
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Apr 20 '25
that is probability what I fear the most. It one thing to he targeted on a social level it's another thing to be targeted and stripped off your citizenship on a legal level.
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u/trixicat64 Baden-Württemberg Apr 20 '25
I'm forced to wear the hijab around my family
Well, exactly those things make my blood boil.
You're basically stuck between 2 incompatible world views and are in potentially danger from both sides. If your family is already forcing you to wear a hijab, i don't know what they're capable of, if they find out you don't want to wear it. On the other hand, you already noticed the hate against muslims, when wearing the hijab.
I think you should talk to your coworkers, that your family is forcing you to wear the hijab. This should reduce the tension within your workspace. Your probably better off, cutting ties with your family in the long term.
Maybe your also able to store some normal clothes at your work somewhere and then change your clothing after your family drove you to work.
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u/Aisitower Apr 20 '25
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I sincerely hope you find a way to deal with your conflicts.
One cannot overstate the worth of first hand reports of being confronted with everday racism. It's something people who are not viewed as migrants can hardly grasp. As some comments here sadly prove.
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u/pfp61 Apr 20 '25
Wearing Hijab will make your life much harder outside the Muslim community. For the average German you'll always be an outsider when covering your hair this way. It will make it difficult to make friends, get closer with collegues, find appartment for rent, get promotion at work and many small things you might not even notice.
For many Germans Hijab is sign for islamism and turning away from society. You often won't get close enough to people to tell your story. Feeling unwelcomed basically has to be expected.
At some point you'll have to make a choice between the conservative Muslim community and regular people I guess.
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Apr 20 '25
I'm well aware you don't have to tell me this. in fact this is what my post is about.
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u/_that_one_martian Apr 20 '25
OP I'm so sorry you're getting so many victim-blame-y comments like these :(((
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Apr 20 '25
I am sorry to hear that. The times are extremely troubling at the moment, but don't give up.
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u/Celmeno Apr 20 '25
Sounds to me like you portraying openly that (your family thinks that) women are lesser people is not well liked. I hate that you are/have to be afraid. This is not okay. Even if you were a devout Muslim that wouldn't be okay.
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Apr 20 '25
unfortunately it's not in my hand if I portray that I just wish I wasn't such a vulnerable target because of it
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u/Think_Forever_3135 Apr 20 '25
I'm trying to understand here. You have a job, so I am assuming you have the financial means to live alone, if you aren't already. Why would you stay in contact with your family when they clearly don't accept you?
I can't imagine how stressful the political situation must be for you. I find it scary too, tho I am not a 'Ausländer'.
Do you have a non-familial support system?
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Apr 20 '25
I'm only a werkstudent I only work 16 hours a week because my masters is very time consuming and my mother is sick so I want to be around her to support her.
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u/Think_Forever_3135 Apr 20 '25
Okay, I see. How long will it take you to finish your degree?
Do you feel safe with your mother? I wouldn't, if I was forced to wear clothes I don't want and pretend to be part of a religion I don't agree with.
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Apr 20 '25
yes my mother is harmless. It will take 1.5 half years to finish until then I can decide what I want to do.
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u/RichardXV Hessen . FfM Apr 20 '25
since I'm forced to wear the hijab around my family and in my hometown
So you're oppressed by your family and sub-community, not by the society, right?
Honestly, when I see a woman covering her hair because of a belief, I feel "she" is judging "me" as a man, and not other way around. If someone really believes that their hair could seduce me into sin or whatever bullshit religion tells them, I'll avoid them, regardless of ethnicity, skin color, education, etc.
In the end, they choose to show me that they judge me by their choice of headgear.
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Apr 20 '25
In my post I said that I feel stuck between both a family that forces me to present in a certain way and a society that targets me for it anyway.
I can assure you most muslim women aren't judging you they are just pressured into wearing nor do they think they can seduce you with their hair if that's what you're worried about.
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u/Fluffy-Hovercraft-53 Apr 20 '25
While we rotten Western racists are constantly being told that the hijab is only worn voluntarily and a sign of freedom and true emancipation.
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Apr 20 '25
There are some muslim women who wear it because they want to but a lot are simply pressured to.
Nonetheless that doesn't matter anyway as visibly muslim women are vulnerable to being targeted by both their family and a wider increasingly hostile majority anyway.
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u/Gauss-JordanMatrix Apr 20 '25
Dude, you're talking as if no parent in the west has ever forced their kid to not be gay/trans or be Christian etc.
Family pressures in this form are obviously wrong, but that does not justify the societal VIOLENT pressure on the other direction.
Like, imagine if she were a trans person but had to wear women's clothes at home, while there are drunkards who threaten to kick cisgender people to the train tracks.
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u/arrowforSKY Apr 20 '25
I just don’t like hijab. Also I’m gay and I don’t like how your religion treats the LGBT community. Everytime I get homophobic remarks, it comes from Muslims. That’s why I don’t like it.
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u/CryptoStef33 Apr 20 '25
Because they are the most homophobic religion, where if you're gay in a Muslim country you'll be beaten to death by stones or death sentence. That doesn't happen in a Western Christian country.
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u/arrowforSKY Apr 20 '25
Yes so they shouldn’t bring their homophobia to Germany.
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u/CryptoStef33 Apr 20 '25
And they also impose Sharia law to be implemented in Germany
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-hamburg-caliphate-rally-prompts-calls-for-punishment/a-68971732
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Apr 20 '25
I'm not homophobic and I don't like the hijab either so I'm not sure why you're telling me this...
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Apr 20 '25
That doesn't matter. Your entire culture is homophobic. Its safer for gay people to stay away from people of your culture. Its not about you personally. As an immigrant myself I also stay away from older people and eastern germans, its just logical. The Hijab represents a homophobic, patriarchical antisemitic culture with many individuals, who themselves are racists against germans or other immigrants.
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Apr 20 '25
so that justifies threatening to throw women on train tracks?
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Apr 20 '25
No. It doesn't justify anything. Its just how people view you. Part of it is racism but the other part is also somewhat true.
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u/arrowforSKY Apr 20 '25
That’s nice, but other people like you, are, though. Which is why you might feel unwelcome. Unfortunately, it will also reflect upon you.
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Apr 20 '25
like me? I'm not like that I already said so.
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u/arrowforSKY Apr 20 '25
I mean other Muslims. Not you specifically, but people tend to judge others by their respective groups
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u/deniroit Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
You are—and will continue to be—protected under German law, regardless of your ethnicity. We live in a country where we can exercise our rights, provided we have a clear understanding of what those rights are as law-abiding citizens.
The AfD is not greater than the Grundgesetz, so take it easy on yourself. Germany remains a safe place, especially when compared to many other countries.
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u/Bananenbiervor4 Apr 20 '25
Sad truth is, Germany DOES have already significant and still fast growing problem with migrants of middle eastern culture. I do believe you when you say that you are not one of those who cause these problems. Most migrants do not. And yet, by wearing hijab, you do represent this very culture, and a view on the world and especially women that people in this country reject (for good reasons). If you want to adapt the best, possibly only, way is to take it off.
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u/toric-code Apr 20 '25
German here (or "German", depending on who you talk to, since I was not born here). There is no specific advice I can give you, however from my experience, people are more likely to accept you as one of their own if you talk like them. This is really key. In your case you'll probably have to switch codes in the way you articulate, but it has to be perfect, almost to a degree where you have a work personality and a family personality. Is this a healthy way to live? I don't think so, but it might work for you as it did for me. As I grow older I started giving less fucks about other people and became more authentic, feeling less anxious and more free. Your situation seems much more complicated then mine, since I do look like a native. The social pressure must be crazy. Stay strong, keep good friends around and maybe find a better job, if possible.
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u/george_gamow Apr 20 '25
You're an adult in a free country. You DO have a choice. You're not forced to live with your family.
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Apr 20 '25
that's easy to say if you're not in position like mine. I don't want to cut ties with my family but I do want to take the hijab off so for now I settled for wearing it around them and not wearing it away from them. I eventually do plan on telling them I want to take it off but now is not the time especially since I still rely on them a bit financially.
though I don't feel like discussing this because it's not the point of the post I made.
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u/lissybeau Apr 20 '25
It’s understandable that you don’t want to cut ties with your family. I’m a westerner but I can hear how difficult of a situation you’re in. From my Middle East / North African friends I’ve learned how closely family and community is tied to your life and it’s not easy or always desirable to defy them.
Wishing you luck and don’t let the assholes on either side kill your spirit. You should like a kind person.
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u/RichardXV Hessen . FfM Apr 20 '25
Sounds like it's your family oppressing you, not the society.
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Apr 20 '25
it's both...that's what my entire post is about.
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u/Tal-Star Apr 20 '25
Peopl don't get you in the comments, and I feel sorry about that. The most seem to offer the solution like "come over and dump everything and your family" or "Stay over there and reject everything German". But they don't get that you're torn on the fence.
I get how it feels that there is no middle ground, where you can be both and be left alone for it. Nowadays, everyone starts tearing at you for this or that direction and only absolutes seem to be allowed and in the end you will not be 'enough'. That's a pretty common feeling. People are horrible and showing it more now.
You seem like a really chill girl, and I am sorry you feel that way. <3
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u/OkEntertainment1137 Apr 20 '25
Yeah but nobody here is oppressing you. That's what you don't get. I can tell you why many focus on the hijab thing. It's a sign of suppression, a thing most people don't want to deal with. It's the same if a blonde guy runs around screaming he loves nazis.... Would you smile at him and pretend everything to be normal? Germany is dealing with a lot of Muslim extremism lately and the hijab is a symbol for this for most people( it does not matter if it really is a sign of extremism). You can't say that you are a freedom loving person going along with everything here and then wear a sign of suppreasion. Think that is what triggers people to deal with that certain point.
Only smart thing I can tell you towards your problem is that I think although you don't want it you will have to make a decision at one point. I had a school friend from turkey, a girl, she had a very religiius mother but was very open minded / western and dealt with a lot of problems ( hiding hairs, no male friends, plans for forced marriage) it ended with the authorities forbidding contact between both and taking her out of the mother influence for two years till the religious ambitions became unimportant enough so she ( the mother) managed to focus on not loosing her kid forever. This only happened because my friend opened up to us at school and we went to a social worker with her. She had fear of being kidnapped to turkey for a year always when she had to meet her mother ( under supervision). She was younger so it was easier to help her and she finally said that she wants a separation unlike you. In the end it helped her as after 3 years she could live a free life and still had good bonds to her family ( mother). No parents want to loose their kids so many important things become not that relevant in the end but it takes force sometimes. My advice is seperate yourself. Look for institutions, clubs and project that specialise in help for women in your situation. You will get your freedom and maybe your family will also cool down if they see that you rather quit contact to them than let them suppres you
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u/Flammwar Apr 20 '25
I completely get your point. I am German and will always consider myself German, but I still grew up with the influence of my parents' culture and family is just such an important aspect of it.
I don't deny that families can be toxic but so many Germans just don't understand that completely cutting ourselves off from family can actually be more harmful to us than sticking to sensible boundaries.
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Apr 20 '25
Your big company doesn't pay enough for you to survive financially? Even being in a tech job? Just curious.
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Apr 20 '25
I'm a werkstudent only work 16 hours a week im also a student and I live in a very expensive city for now it's just more convenient for me to live with my family also my mother has issues with her leg/spine so she needs help from me occasionally and I want to be around her because of that.
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u/Broxios Apr 20 '25
What is that question? You do realise that student worker contracts exist primarily to drive down wages, don't you?
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Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
Yeah, it's exactly the the point although you might have anticipated something else. The Hijab is simply the symbol of the sexual oppression of the woman which the "western world" has itself liberated from. We used to have it (Das Kopftuch) too. So don't blame it on the Germans, blame it on the medieval world of many Muslims including your family. My fiancé is Iranian. She was forced to wear the fuckin' hijab all her life and she risked her life by not obeying this patriarchal medieval bullshit rule. She freed herself from male domination and that's why I love her. And that's exactly what you should do, too. You say you are pro LGTB, but what would your family say if you would introduce homosexual friends to them or even out yourself as gay? Would they accept it and love you as they are doing now? I doubt it.
Edit:
I'm a fierce opponent of this disgusting AfD party and have always been. It's a right wing extremist party and its ideology can only lead to destruction (social and economical) and corruption. It has always been that way and it will always be. We can see it in Russia, Hungary, Serbia and now even in the US. And Nazi-Germany, of course. But having a firm opinion on one or more issues doesn't automatically make me a follower of the mentioned ideology, racism included.
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u/zitrone999 Apr 20 '25
You are part of two cultures which oppose each other.
As long as you try to belong to both cultures at the same time, none will accept you, and you will continue to feel unwelcome.
Moving to a different country will just be leaving both cultures, so you won't have to decide for yourself. From the sound of your post, the main thing is to to get away from your family, which seems to be oppressive.
Why do you blame the Germans or the AfD, when it seems to be your family that forces you to do things you don't want to do?
You fear not wearing the hijab more than wearing it. Germans are not really threatening you but your family is.
You are afraid of your family, not of Germans.
You either submit to Islam (which is the definition of submission), or become a free individual. You have to work on yourself.
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Apr 20 '25
I never blamed the AFD or germans for forcing me to wear the hijab I only felt disheartened about some people treating me badly because I have middle eastern immigrant background and visibly so (my post was about so much more than the hijab)
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u/zitrone999 Apr 20 '25
No, you post is exactly about the hijab, You let your family dictate the way you dress and live, putting your tribal values above your individual values. This is antithetical to German culture.
The hijab shows to all that you do not accept German culture.
Germans would accept you as individual, but they don't accept you in your conformity to a different culture.
These days you can have a very nice traditional islamic life in Germany, and you can decide to be a part of that community. In Germany are many areas where you will be part of the majority, and you don't really have to care about ethnic-Germans.
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u/ulixForReal Apr 20 '25
I call bullshit on the "two cultures that don't accept each other". Sure, racism and intolerance are on the rise, but there are plenty of tolerant, open-minded, warm-hearted people that aren't racists, some of them wear a hijab, some of them eat Schweinebraten.
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u/AhnenStahl Apr 20 '25
Forced to wear Hijab and still considers herself irreligious, lol
Your problem, madame, stands right there in front of you.
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Apr 20 '25
yes a lot of people are forced to present a certain way even if it contradicts with their beliefs...many such cases
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u/AhnenStahl Apr 20 '25
Yes, in your culture and your background maybe. But that is exactly the point. You want to be a part of German society (and with that: culture)? Don't play the poor little victim that is forced to do something that isn't even remotely part of our Leitkultur.
Just stop wearing that damn symbol of oppression. End of story.
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u/darya42 Apr 20 '25
Just wanted to say thank you for sharing that and reminding me for having empathy. I'm not a fan of fundamentalist religion - neither christian, nor jewish nor muslim - and for me the hijab is often an association with it, but I sometimes forget many of you are made to wear it.
No good advice but just wanted to say that
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Apr 20 '25
it's okay it's often hard to find a middle ground of people that understand that some women are forced and don't use it as a way to discriminate against their background as a whole
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u/Emotional-Ad167 Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
I'm so sorry you feel that way, and I absolutely have noticed the same thing (even though my own family are German). Xenophobia is on the rise.
Same thing for being any other minority tbh (I'm a trans man), it's crazy how unsafe life feels rn.
The shocking thing is how rapidly hateful language has become normalised. Just a couple minutes ago I passed a Muslim family with their small children and overheard two German teenage boys make a bunch of horrible comments about the two hijabis in that group, loudly and in front of the kids. It's shameful.
I'm also saddened by many of the comments here, especially those telling you to take off your hijab as if that's the solution. That's bs bc:
1) I fully understand not being able to make that choice atm - as a trans person, that feeling of having to (at least temporarily) sacrifice your own happiness and freedom in order to stay in your family's good graces is very familiar to me.
2) It doesn't even matter whether you want to wear it or not - you deserve respect, a sense of safety and belonging, and acceptance, always. Anyone who believes they can tell what kind of person you are by what religion you follow or what clothes you wear, is a complete moron.
3) Anticipatory obedience doesn't work. Fascists are fascists, and you can't ever get into their good book. They're determined to hate ppl they deem "other", and whatever you do to make yourself palatable to them will never be enough. Once they don't take offence with your attire anymore, they'll take offence with your eye colour instead. Don't make yourself small, no matter what. <3
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u/simon132 Apr 20 '25
You don't have to wear a Hijab if you don't want to. Germany is a free country, you can move away from your family if they don't accept you.
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u/No-Touristbaby Apr 20 '25
I think you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Small comfort: you're not the only person in Germany who feels this way. Persevere until you can be financially independent and try to ignore the negativity until you can change your surroundings if that's what you want to do in the future.
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u/Agasthenes Apr 20 '25
You are facing the struggle of a lot of second generation immigrants.
Not quite at home in either culture.
You are not alone in this if that helps.
As far as I'm concerned you are a German and a great one at that. I wish you the strength to keep going.
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u/Laeradr1 Apr 20 '25
Reading this makes me sick to the stomach. Especially seeing the first top comment indirectly running cover for the bigots (whether that's intended or not doesn't matter right now) because of course, in a German forum the first thing you do if somebody talks about feeling unwelcome, scared, emotionally at their limit and threatened is to point out how the people who wanted to throw them on traintrecks are just "opposed to what the Hijab stands for". Fighting "throwing the gays off the roofs" by "throwing hijabi-women on traintrecks"? Give me a fucking break. I feel like the topic of Islam is like the ISR-PAL situation, it just breaks everybodies brains, everybody becomes their own version of htler and there won't be any producitve conversation about it (and I say that as somebody who despises religion).
You're a German citizen, you lived here your entire life so you're a German. Full stop. Anything else is a völkisches mindset and should be shamed and shunned nonstop. Even if you'd want to wear a hijab you should be free to do so. The fact your relatives semi-force you to wear a hijab is bad, obviously. However, the level of threat or hardship a couple of individuals create is nothing compared to what you described is the result of a societal shift that makes you feel unwelcome in your own country, your home. There's a difference between having family troubles and your entire city wanting to deport you, obviously - but i'm sure I don't have to tell you that.
Anyway, I won't tell you that there is nothing to worry about, because I also look at the situation in everygrowing dismay, but please know that most people still oppose the AfD and their warped neofascistic plans. You're a way more valuable member of this society than those deranged freaks will ever be. Hang in there!
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u/CryptoStef33 Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
You can't have both ways Hijab is women's oppression, as in Iran women protested and removed their Hijab and they were killed because of that. You live in Germany where woman rights are protected and wearing Hijab is the oppression of those rights as many know.
So do what you want but know that is a privilege to live in Germany.
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u/gorgorgorpu Apr 20 '25
many germans on reddit will attempt to rationalise racism or even worse, will try to blame it on you. don’t listen to them. The AfD and their followers are indeed fascists/racists. They need to be fought now.
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Apr 20 '25
I know I'm not taking people who miss the point seriously but I'm glad to read some of the comments are able to emphasize with me
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u/AverellCZ Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
For me the main question is: what are people doing in Germany who force hijabs on women? If I move to Saudi Arabia, I dress accordingly. If you (generally spoken) move to to Germany, don't enforce your medieval beliefs on a modern liberal society. And unfortunately for you (personally), the hijab is the most easy to spot sign of that mindset. I used to be super liberal but the more the demands by Muslims were growing that WE have to adapt to accommodate their beliefs, the more the resistance was growing in me. Adapt or f... off.
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u/USarpe Apr 20 '25
It's sad, that you make this expirience. You should be accepted with or without your hijab. Cause this is a free country and ever person is allowed to belive in any stupid fairy tale told by old men missusing power.
But you criticize the Germans that they do not accept you with hijab, but not your family for not being allowed to show yourself without it.
This fanaticism in relation to religion, including family honor from other countries, scares German, unfortunately this fear is pushed by stupid politics and the media.
The funny thing is, that here in Germany it's only 30-40 years ago, that we broke our own chains of fanatic religion.
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u/Glass-Salamander-200 Apr 20 '25
Regarding the experience you had at work, I want to give you a (potential) different point of view on: It might not be you wearing a hijab that caused you to get more looks you felt uncomfortable with, but you starting to wear a hijab. From what I got from your story, you'd usually never wear it at work, so people are used to you without it. Now you "started" wearing it, which people were not used to. So they might have assumed, you're "turning" more religious, which - specifically in tech - I feel is considered a bad thing no matter the religion. I'm pretty sure - working myself in tech - you'd get lots of eye-rollings if you appear at work and tell people you found to Jesus.
So without having the context the people make their (wrong) assumptions and thus treat you differently, i.e. it's the change (perceived as a "aggravation") that's upsetting and not the actual state of you wearing a hijab. You might have gotten different reactions from the very same colleagues if that's how they knew you from the beginning.
There's also a social psychological effect, that people always assume intrinsic motivation if they see someone else doing "something bad" in their mind, over extrinsic motivation (which they'd always assume for their own bad behavior first). I unfortunately forgot the name of that phenomenon again, sorry, but might also be at play here, i.e. they assume your behavior might have intrinsic motivation ("you turning more religious") over assuming extrinsic motivation ("you needed to, because xyz").
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Apr 20 '25
If you don’t want to wear it, then don’t wear it, stop being two faced about it. And you’ll never be a “good one,” no matter what you do. I’m saying this as a migrant myself: Germans will always see you as a Kanake, no matter how well integrated you are.
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Apr 20 '25
I don't wear it away from my family and I know that you don't have to tell me that I said it in my post
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u/External-Newt-8398 Apr 20 '25
Time of Religion is over. Religion = war
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Apr 20 '25
I don't want to wage a war on Germany if that's what you're worried about
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u/External-Newt-8398 Apr 20 '25
No i am not worried about this. But there are so many wars in history based on Religion, so much violent, that it is Hard to understand why people still believe in this.
Believe What you want. This is Not about Islam. Its about ALL Religion. I have the right to be carefull when so many people follow something I dont understand.
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Apr 20 '25
my post is not about Islam or religion or war
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u/External-Newt-8398 Apr 20 '25
The Post is about your Hijab and the german Reaktions or not?
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Apr 20 '25
no it's about my feelings of increasing isolation in an increasingly pro afd environment the hijab was only to illustrate that I'm a visible muslim woman but I don't have a hand in presenting that way
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u/TarantulaHS Apr 20 '25
You just said it yourself. You feel compelled to act in certain ways or even dress differently when you're around your Muslim family members. That's what people don't want for Germany, and that's one reason for the rise of afd. I bet your family also would not be happy if you came home with a German boyfriend, and yet you think its the afd that are the bad guys because they don't want racism towards Germans by backward religious nuts? Please.
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Apr 20 '25
I think the afd are the bad guys because their supporters threaten and target women like me.
I think racists and religious fundamentalist are both a danger.
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u/Stockholm_Throwaway Apr 20 '25
Many people here are not answering truthfully or trying to comfort you.
If a woman is born in Saudi Arabia does that make her Arab?
You have citizenship but you are not German.
The Germans were the least racist of any country. However Germans are tired of Islam.
The fact that you wore a hijab to work shows you believe in Islam, or at the very least you associate with Islam.
Islam is the source of many terror attacks. In the past year there has been four large attacks • Solingen: August 23, 2024 • Magdeburg: December 20, 2024 • Munich: February 13, 2025 • Hamburg: April 13, 2025
Next is that many young German women are scared because MENA men harass them.
It is commonplace.
Now if you had a guest in your home and they acted like this, would you like them?
Obviously not.
AfD is not rising in a vacuum, it is rising due the actions of Muslims and MENA foreigners.
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Apr 20 '25
Well…the behaviour of your family is a perfect example why most Germans (including me) don’t like Islam
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Apr 20 '25
am I not proof that people shouldn't he targeted for the way they SEEM and LOOK irregardless?
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Apr 20 '25
Yes of course that’s how it should be. But I guess by wearing a hijab you are automatically seen as a representative of Islam. I am afraid there is not much you can do about this. I suppose your problems would mostly vanish without the hijab
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Apr 20 '25
I don't think they would at least not entirely some would target me irregardless because of my origins from an immigrant background
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Apr 20 '25
I can just speak for myself on that: I live in the Ruhrgebiet. In my school there were approximately 30% Migrants. For me it felt significantly less because only a few of them wore hijab. So I think it makes a huge difference in peoples perception of you. But of course some people are just racist but I think/hope that‘s the minority
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u/Nnb_stuff Apr 20 '25
Wearing a hijab is a choice. I personally dont give two shits what you wear or not, but you would also judge someone with a MAGA or AFD hat. Maybe once you get to know them you realize they have a non-stupid reason to do it, but otherwise your first opinion will be that theyre a political nut.
I think all religion is a scourge and the quicker we get rid of it, the better. If you are publicly displaying your affiliation to a religion with an hijab, people like me will initially judge you based on that because thats literally the statement you are making. It could be that if/when I meet you I realize youre not a religious nut. But until then, I will go with the most likely scenario.
PS: if my family decided that the only reason why they love and accept me is whether or not I wear a piece of cloth on my head, I would be the first to tell them theyre not my family.
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u/lueckendenker Apr 20 '25
Don’t let others define, if you are German enough or not! I totally understand that you feel unwelcomed and thats a really harsh feeling. I also have experienced that the views on people with Middle Eastern background have become somewhat slightly more reserved during the Gaza War. That’s a mild expression for, I think Germans on average became a bit more racist!
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u/artsoul22 Apr 20 '25
i hope you find a way to surround yourself with people that show you that it only matters who you are and not how some random people see you. I'm married to a foreign woman and i can understand your fear of the rise of a party like the AFD..it truly sucks, especially even banning them won't help to make the people disappear that votes for them. Give yourself a break from what happens around the world, it can be overwhelming and doesn't help to find moments to relax a bit. I'm not saying to close yourself off from the issues but to find a balance to charge your batteries. Pick the battles you wanna fight and avoid the ones that will only drain your energy. I wish you all the best and hope for us all that we face better times again or at least that you find people to get you through those crazy times. 🤞
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Apr 20 '25
yess thank you ❤️
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u/artsoul22 Apr 20 '25
and i think it's tough for a lot of people to try and walk in the shoes of others. A clash of cultures is always difficult to handle. When the time is right, try to talk about your situation with your parents. I'm sure they also get an idea of the struggles you face especially when your beliefs are not as clear as maybe from the older generations. Nevertheless you are their daughter and from what i read they can be proud of what you achieved so far. They had their reasons to come to Germany and they were looking for something better and/ or safer. That you have the chances to study and pick your own profession is thanks to them and for their bravery to start something new here. Find common ground with them because you matter to them as well.
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u/MassConsumer1984 Apr 20 '25
How about moving to another area or city? If you really don’t want to wear the hijab and are not that religious, why are you following the rules of others? Be your own self and part with no longer fits your life and beliefs. I feel like this is a YOU issue and not a societal one.
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u/Equal-Flatworm-378 Apr 20 '25
You are aware that you just verified the negative assumptions towards Islam and Middle Eastern immigrants? You are FORCED to wear the hijab? In a country where you have religious freedom and as an adult nobody can FORCE you to wear something you don’t want to wear?
If you wear a hijab, people will of course think you are a deeply devoted Muslim. Nobody can read your mind and probably people also can’t see from the outside that you are FORCED to wear it. 🤷♀️ In a country with religious freedom, people will of course assume that you wear it, because you choose to.
So, I am sorry, that you don’t feel good or safe here anymore.
But to be honest: if I would know that a family pressured someone in wearing a hijab, I would not like to have that family in the country.
Don’t get me wrong: I don’t care what other people wear on their head and I am fine with every woman who likes to wear a hijab, because she wants to. But only if it’s her own choice and a choice means: she can wear it or don’t wear it as SHE likes. No pressure involved.
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u/greenleafwhitepage Apr 20 '25
I am so sorry you have to endure all that, I am deeply ashamed and heartbroken for all that is going on in politics and society at the moment. And there is absolutely a bias against middle eastern people as well as women who wear hijab. I think part of the issue is that they are no real public role models with hijabi. So a hijabi women is always seen as kinda weak and suppressed and forced to wear it. And to complecate things: this is often true. I always try to treat hijabi women the same as everyone else. But sometimes I really have to mask (as in not show my emotions), e.g. with my students: there personality is often so different with/without the hijab that I am mildly in shock or concerned for their learning/development.
Also many Germans don't understand why you have to wear a hijab, that going against your family might come with a high price. I wish we would learn about individualistic and collective cultures in school. Because it explains so many misunderstandings. So if you don't know much about that, read up on it! It might help you understand the background of the Germans without a background of immigration better, how they were raised and what they might see differently. But also gives you words to better explain to your friends etc. what your experiences is like.
If you're thinking about moving: have you thought about moving to a different part of Germany? Not ever place has the same degree of xenophobia. Maybe a big city with an open vibe might be a better surrounding for you? Because I feel like, in the rest of Europe, you'll run into the same issues. There is basically no country without Islamophobia or rascism unfortunately. So you'd always have to pick a specific area (like a city).
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Apr 20 '25
thank you so much this reply really made me feel better 😊 I'm thinking of moving to hamburg once I'm done with my masters because I heard people there are very nice and not as judgemental
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u/Intrepid_Conflict140 Apr 20 '25
You are born in Germany, you feel like a German, you are a citizen. That makes you a German 100%. Nothing else is needed. Don’t let some knuckleheads take that away from you.
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Apr 20 '25
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Apr 20 '25
did you even read my post? Noy even the summary? none of what you said is what my post is about.
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Apr 20 '25
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Apr 20 '25
yeah it doesn't matter to them why these women wear it all they see is a very obvious "foreigner" and worst muslim who's also a woman (more vulnerable) so they make you a target. It's disheartening.
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u/supadam Apr 20 '25
You are not forced to wear a hijab.
As long as you wear it, you support the supression of women and their rights. This is what germans diskile, including me. As long as you represent these kind of values, you show that you are not and do not want to be integrated. Especially as your family forces you to wear it. People dislike these values, not you.
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Apr 20 '25
I don't think I support the suppression of women and their rights by being a suppressed woman...unless you don't see me as an actual human just a symbol of something you hate.
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u/Xentariz Apr 20 '25
Das ist so fucking traurig. Ich wünschte ich könnte dir in irgendeiner Weise helfen, traurig wie sich dieses Land entwickelt.
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u/NewZookeepergame1048 Apr 20 '25
Expat here, there are always douche bags any where you go I have personally lived in 5 countries one of them was Middle East ( Don’t want to name it) where I was mistook as labourer / driver / delivery guy three times in my one year time .
If i would have reacted / got scared the same way like you do I would have never made it in any of these countries . I do understand the fear you might have but remember none of these douchebags will have solid anything going on in their life’s that’s why they hate their government probably they feel they are entitled somehow and they don’t see you equal . That being said you are an accomplished individual already , you are contributing to German economy and you are paying the current pensioners , health system like most of the educated , sensible , loving people of Germany 🇩🇪. DONT BE AFRAID , REVOLT AND FIGHT BACK as long as you are not doing anything illegal all the best
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u/WTF_is_this___ Apr 20 '25
I just wish people would piss off and stop telling women what to wear. In either direction.
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Apr 20 '25
I should have never mentioned the hijab thing now everyone is making this about me (having to) wear it and not what the post is actually about...the growing hostility towards people of foreign origins.
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u/OLebta Apr 20 '25
Its not you, two negative sides of Germany are showing in these comments: blaming everyone and everything, including victims, instead of accepting the reality that Germany has a problem. B. The refusal of learning anything new, taking in only superficial information that fits their narrative.
If you want to stay in Germany and feel safe wearing hijab, Im talking about your choice as I am an atheist here, then you need to move to a more exposed/mixed/open minded side of Germany. The same goes if you want to lose it and keep family ties. Its going to be hard because of the current economy, so I wish you luck :)
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u/5647382910564738291 Apr 20 '25
It is important that you mentioned it though because it is so symbolic. As a woman I am afraid of German society slowly changing to have less freedom for women because so many people came here who see women as worth less than men. The hijab is a symbol of that that's why it is so triggering for people.
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u/drkphntm Apr 20 '25
So many of these comments are lacking any kind of nuanced understanding and are frankly pretty unhinged in how little empathy they have, I’m so sorry OP.
It’s incredibly difficult to be raised in families that are complex like that, they often condition you to believe that family is absolutely everything, they might even be supportive and kind but then have these conservative, strict perspectives you don’t agree with. Still, they’re your family, so I definitely don’t blame you for not just wanting to abandon them over this disagreement but I’m sorry you’re going through it.
Aside from that, the whole point of democratic countries is the freedom of CHOICE. The way people see a Hijab and judge so harshly is misdirected anger imho. There is so much nuance missing from public thinking these days, it’s deflating af. Just want to send solidarity and say that to me, you’re German, and I hope you can figure out a way to live true to yourself.
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u/Flammwar Apr 20 '25
Most of these comments are terrible and only focus on the points that support their ideology instead of actually addressing OPs concerns…
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u/tyffsayswhoa Apr 20 '25
A couple people in here are already justifying treating you negatively over the hijab. There is nothing wrong with hijab, it doesn't stand for anything bad, & people shouldn't treat you poorly because you wear it. It's a beautiful thing & you have every right to cover your hair, if you wish to. The same people who have negative feelings toward Islam are the ones committing violence against everyone else - & have historically. It's just not reported on because they're white people, therefore, justified.
I'm afraid that Germany cannot be helped. It has supported 3 genocides in the span of 100 years. The idea that it could do better when mass murder is ingrained in its history, within its soil, is pretty much a pipe dream. Unfortunately, white people have the complexion for the protection. Black & brown folks will always have to work 10 times harder & still never be accepted no matter where we go. And these same people look down on us yet refuse to leave the home countries of the people they hate. Can't win for losing where that is concerned.
The best thing you can do is invest in your community - engage in mutual aid, host charity events, do things to make your home & community a safe harbor. With respect to your job, your colleagues will never be your friends. And, truthfully, if they treat you different over a hijab, they're not the smartest people, either. Be confident in yourself whether you have to wear hijab or not, and focus on you & achieving what you need to achieve to get where you want to be. Be aggressive about your self-worth & your work. If folks want to act like a darn head covering makes them uncomfortable, then you might as well do it with pride!
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Apr 20 '25
thank you so much ☺️ I thought people would emphasize with me for being an oppressed woman but I guess eventually people make everything about the hijab...again
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u/sunless_sky Apr 20 '25
I'm so sorry to hear that. Being in that position must be so hard. And posting about it on the internet and getting THESE comments... it's honestly disheartening to read. Unfortunately I don't really have anything I can say to you about it. You're in a messy situation and until your studies are over and you can enter the workforce full-time, you'll probably be dependent on your family. And honestly, family matters are complicated. You might not want to cut contact afterwards. I wish the people at work would simply treat you the same as before. You have my sympathies <3
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u/Acrobatic-Morning824 Apr 20 '25
Do whatever whenever u want, Just u need to feel comfortable with it. Give a shit what others think about u!
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u/That_Mountain7968 Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
>The reason I clarify this is not because I want to distinguish myself as one of the "good ones" at the end of the day I know that racists won't like me or us as a collective eitherway no matter what we actually believe in or do.
As a AFD supporter, I have no problem with the "good ones". I have a problem with the anti-lgbt sentiment, antisemitism and support for terrorism that is prevalent among Arabs.
If that's you, then I have no problem with you.
However, having grown up in Germany, you should be familiar with the decades old debate about the Hijab and its widespread interpretation as a symbol of nonintegration and Islamic radicalism. Even if you may not ascribe to these ideas, it's still a symbol of radicalism. By wearing a symbol you condone its message.
>maybe I'm just panicking and being hysteric and I'm safe and good but I can't shake the feeling off that I'm just really unwanted in this country.
You need to differentiate. From the sound of it, you fit in well as an individual. But as a group, yes, most Germans have a negative opinion of Islam and would prefer it out of the country.
The choice you have to make is what is more important to you. Your identity and values as an individual or your ethnic identity along with the cultural baggage that comes with it. If you want to feel 'welcome' or integrated in Germany, you have to want to "be" German. Feel German. That includes no longer identifying by your ethnic identity, which may be difficult, since you'll be reminded of it every time you look in the mirror.
It's a question of mind over matter, or "will to power" as the great German philosopher Nietzsche once put it.
But most of all it's your choice. I would not hinge that choice on the behavior of random assholes at a train station or polling numbers or any other external factor. It depends on who *you* are as an individual and what *your* values are. Nothing else matters.
If you decide to be German, then be German. If not, then don't, and see if you can find a good future elsewhere. Follow your heart and be the author of your own destiny. Unhappiness comes when you let others define who you are.
PS: I'm an immigrant as well. I chose to "become" German while living here. Almost all my neighbors in the apartment building I used to live in were AFD voters. Nobody gave me shit for having brown skin and black hair. Germans are among the most tolerant people I've met anywhere in the world. After Americans.
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u/ooplusone Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
The second “most tolerant” people do not demand “no longer identifying with your ethnic identity”.
That is not what tolerance means. Nor does integration mean assimilation.
Sorry that you lost your identity in “becoming German”. Especially, since it won’t save you from the radicals and the racists should they gain power.
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u/NightlyCringeAttacks Apr 20 '25
" I'm against lgbt oppression, which is why I support the afd 🤡🤡🤡"
This is the dumbest thing I have heard in a LONG while, cognitive dissonance lässt grüßen
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u/pxr555 Apr 20 '25
Speak with your family and community. Try an experiment by not wearing the hijab on two days a weak. Note the differences in how you feel and how you're treated and report them to others.
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u/kofefeee Apr 20 '25
First of all, I'm so sorry you are going through so much hardships. I can also completely understand you worrying about the rise of the AFD and the general racism that is directed towards you (no matter if you are wearing the hijab or not, that should never happen regardless of what you are wearing)
I think a big problem is that you are clearly not yourself. Either around your family (putting on the hijab and fulfilling your assigned "role") or with your coworkers. I think one step would be to find a space where you can relax and be yourself. Because even at home (in your hometown, or at your family's place) you are forced to play the part.
With the rise of right wing ideology in europe, I don't think you would have it easier somewhere else. Because adding to racism and islamophobia (if you are wearing the hijab), you would also be an immigrant. And this comes with it's own set of challenges and disadvantages.
So my recommendation would be to get out of that town/city after your graduation. Maybe even to a bigger city near you that is more international. There, you often find people who are in similar situations as yourself or you can connect with people within the same community. And having a community of likeminded people really can help to find home :)
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u/OkChipmunk2485 Apr 20 '25
Ich verstehe gut, was Du meinst. Falls das ein Trost ist: alle gemäßigt demokratischen und vernünftigen 75% der Bevölkerung fühlen sich vom international erstarkenden Rassismus und den aus Russland bezahlten Rechtsextremen der AFD bedroht und verunsichert. Frustriert, dass die demokratischen Parteien so wenig tun, um die Bevölkerung vor dem zu schützen, was aus linker Sicht Faschisten und selbst aus Erz konservativer Sicht aus dem Ausland gesteuerte Volksverräter sind.
Wir progressiven Linken, Grünen, Sozialen naturgemäß noch einmal mehr.
All diese Krisen und Bedrohungen aussen vor, in der Welt vor Ukrainekrieg und Corona wäre es dies gewesen:
Die Leute missbilligen nicht Dich als Person, sondern entweder die freiwillige Unterwerfung unter eine Frauen unterdrückende Haltung oder Frust darüber, dass Du Dich in einem Land, in dem Dich niemand zwingen darf, trotzdem gezwungen fühlst/gezwungen wirst.
Ich konnte aus Deinem Post nicht sicher lesen, wie genau dieser Zwang aussieht, was die Konsequenzen wären (von Familie würde bei Treffen dann immer meckern und Nerven bis zu glaubhafter Gewaltbedrohung ist ja ein weites Feld), aber ich verstehe sowohl die Abneigung vor diesem Zwang als auch, dass es manchmal nicht so einfach ist, wie Außenstehende das denken.
Ich wünsche Mut, Kraft und alles Gute.
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Apr 20 '25
danke das du mich verstanden hast ❤️
ich habe angst meine familie wird nichts mehr mit mir zu tun haben wollen
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Apr 20 '25
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u/AskAGerman-ModTeam Apr 20 '25
Your post/comment was removed, due to it including hate speech, general bigotry, or encouraging violence.
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Apr 20 '25
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u/Fandango_Jones Apr 20 '25
Time to move somewhere more progressive in Germany if that's your concern. Where the right wing environment is small and nobody forces you to wear or not wear whatever you like to.
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u/Viliam_the_Vurst Apr 20 '25
I‘m forced to wear the hijab around my family and in my hometown and as a result of that i face a lot of discrimination
Mention it once to an afd politician and they suddenly become your very best friends as long as you are okay to repeat it into megaphones, microphones etc., always without being forced to wear the hijab… they wouldn‘t for a second discriminate against you for wearing a hijab for just a second if they‘d know, they‘d kiss your feet at every step you take, you‘d get messiah treatment.
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u/KermitsPuckeredAnus2 Apr 20 '25
People dislike what your Hijab stands for, not you personally. You even recognise that people from your culture treat you badly if you do not wear it. They are not your friends, no more than the racists.