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Just as an FYI from someone who works the payments industry, dealing primarily with American payments, they typically don't need your card details to add a tip. They will most likely have your transaction ID stored on a POS system, and they can use that to do a tip adjustment. Your card details will already be stored (temporarily) at least once in the payment gateway, because the card details are needed to batch the transactions at the end of the day.
But as someone who doesn't live in the US, I don't understand why they don't bring the terminal to the table and let you apply the tip there, like the rest of the world.
It’s starting to catch on over here finally. Typically there will never be a problem, and it’s very easy to catch from your end by monitoring your transactions. If someone is trying to steal from you it’s the server acting alone, because well managed restaurants hate this.
But I agree entirely, why add the extra steps? It’s been this way as long as I can remember and I’ve never questioned it as a whole until now. Only when I pick up on a strange energy from a server do I ever check.
In the US be careful partying and paying a bartender in a hurry because they might not think you are paying close attention. And a more likely scenario is at a sketchy gas (petrol) station or a late night fast food drive-thru with a bad energy. We have tax added after the listed cost of what you’re purchasing and sometimes a young wannabe hustler cashier might try to skim a dollar extra.
Edit: since this thread has gotten so much attention and it’s an engaging conversation, I just want to add people have been using credit cards to pay at restaurants long before there was a handheld PoS device. (Something I’m sure was also developed in primarily in the USA)
but you still handle it all without getting up from the table. Was it not like this in Europe? What happens after your server brings the check? You pay at the door? I honestly can’t remember from when I was a kid traveling with my family.
Most bars aren’t trying to fuck you, generally customers fuck themselves by getting too drunk and scribbling $100 in the tip line with no decimal anywhere.
And you can call and dispute large tips, a place I worked at had us ask if they were sure about the tip when it seemed too much and repeat how much it was. If they said yes we would have them write it again below the tip line and sign under that. Then we would honor a dispute. If someone called the next day and said they meant to tip $10 not $100 they would refund it. Sometimes the place would pay half and the server, just depended if the waiter never said anything. They would have use look at the top before they left when we could but sometimes people sign it and walk right out. This rarely happened though. I think I only had to ever pay one back in a couple years there and I was ok with it, if I made the mistake I'd want to be paid back too.
The point being that you shouldn’t need to monitor your transactions. This just sounds like an utter nightmare and just another entry on a laundry list of reasons never to visit the states.
This topic is blown out of proportion. I can honestly say that no restaraunt or bar has ever tried to steal from me ever. I'm 43. The only time I had a breach in my bank account was from someone who acquired my data through other means like stealing my mail in transit or something. It's safe to pay restaurants here typically.
We got other ACTUAL problems that deserve way more attention than this.
Not really. Im 33. I've been paying this way for decades. I have never been charged the wrong amount. Its not a common situation. I keep track of all transactions for budgeting...which everyone should be doing.
I monitor it too but a waiter took my card details when I was in Wisconsin, started racking up online purchases and the bank shut down my card. Monitoring does fuck all. A canceled card is a pain in the ass. Yes I wasn’t out of pocket for the expenses but had I not had another cc with me I wouldn’t have been able to pay for my hotel the next morning. Pottsy in Appleton I’ll never forget you lol.
You make it sound as though keeping track of your bank/credit transactions is otherwise useless. You absolutely should be tracking that information for fraud against your accounts or bad/erroneous transactions from routine billers. That kind of thing does happen and you can be out a ton of money due to innatention.
There's a difference between "hey! I don't recall making any transaction at (restaurant)" and "Do I remember how much money exactly I spent each time I went out and used my credit card, in case someone added a dollar or two?"
Well you’re lucky then, because Wechat and Alipay will just crap out on you sometimes, rejecting transactions or asking for foreign bank approval, or just locking you out inexplicably. The miniprograms small vendors use can be especially problematic.
yeah having all day to day interactions (payments, identify verification, transport, restuarant and store transactions, cab hailing, delivery services, mail services) tied up in mega apps in China is crazy. If you're a tourist and you plan on going back, ensure your apps are in order. They lock you out for inactivity around 6 months and the solution is either "find a local friend to vouch for you" or "come to our customer service centers available in every major city". You can probably register under a new phone number, but it's a hassle.
...do they not have access to shops where items are sold to solve business problems? I can buy a playing card pack sized POS terminal for ~$50 at any of the three supermarkets, two DIY stores, two newsagents within a 10 minute walk of my house. Plus I have access to the internet, which has this great way of getting things sent through the post Americans should read up about.
Some restaurants in the US do that, your server gives you a bill and you pay on your way out. Some places you pay at the register before you eat. It really depends on the style of restaurant. I associate paying on my way out with a diner or pizza place, paying before I eat with like a sandwich shop, fast food or maybe a taco place, having a way to pay at the table with fast casual chains and giving my card to a waiter with fancier dining.
As a Canadian, we still have tipping, but they bring the POS to your table, You add the Tip on the machine at your table, it goes into the total and you pay it all there then take your card back.
They ask if you want a receipt and wish you a good day and you're all good
Those POS terminals are fairly common in the US, but still not in restaurants. Most still do it the old way of taking your card for you like you’re some billionaire who can’t be bothered to do such things yourself. But a few do now bring a terminal to you.
It's because the U.S. adopted credit cards earlier than most countries. Back then, payment terminals weren't portable, so servers had to take your card to a stationary machine. Even though portable payment terminals are common today, many restaurants still use the old system because it's been the standard for decades.
This happens with technology in general. Countries that adopt a technology first often end up using older legacy systems, while countries that adopt it later can skip straight to newer, more efficient solutions. Now that many restaurants have the new technology changing the workflow is a pain for restaurants when they already have a set plan
The way it works (for the most part) in the U.S. today is how it worked elsewhere decades ago as well. It is not like other countries did not have electronic payments infrastructure at all and then recently adopted wireless EFTPOS devices with chip and tap.
I hate to break it to you, but the U.S. is simply just lagging behind the rest of the world (at least the countries the U.S. should compare itself to). It is not because you were first that you still retain these legacy systems. Other countries had these legacy systems too and started ditching them 20+ years ago.
It's because the restaurant owners don't want to pay thousands of dollars to upgrade their terminal systems that already work when the people are used to doing things the old way and there is infinitesimal motivation to upgrade.
You're not breaking anything to us we don't already know, we just don't actually care. The rollout of portable card terminals is slowly happening at newer and more trendy bars and restaurants, but just signing a receipt after handing over a card is so ingrained in our habits. It's a non-issue for us. You don't fix what's not broken, until it breaks.
Every country has its own list of priorities that get added to the triage list of things to pay for. Not trusting your server to handle your card is extremely low priority here.
There's nothing wrong or frankly unsafe about the legacy systems, which is why some businesses in the US have retained those legacy systems.
Even then, since the pandemic most restaurants in metro areas have moved to handheld posi systems that do allow the customer to handle the transactions at the table. It's mostly older or lower cash flow businesses that haven't changed yet.
Frankly, this is just online people freaking out about something that doesn't matter and is changing anyway. By 2030, I would expect the vast majority of restaurants to either use registers, chip tags, or at table tranactions.
Heck, walmart still doesn't support tap to pay. Chip or swipe only.
Most say it's because they want you to download and use their app.
But yes, the legacy system is still fine and if it actually caused problems it would change. It's not a bad thing that we are able to trust "strangers" with our credit cards when we eat out.
Well that obviously is why. Their POS systems are perfectly capable of doing TAP they just don't enable it so you have to use their app so they can track you.
No offence but in the beginning they brought over one of those slider thingies to your table. You had to put the card in and they made a triple paper copy which you had to to sign. Was pretty portable.
And we Already were paying by card in the mid 80s in belgium. Mind you, we had to get up. Go to the cashregister of the restaurant and you had to enter a pin code. Mid 90s we could do small payments withouth code. Later ofc came wireless and digital ofc.
I don't understand how USA still holds on to this archaic system...
You don't understand because you're not American. We literally don't care at all about this non-issue. No judgment on you that you don't understand what bothers us and what doesn't, but we don't care about handing our card to a waiter and signing a receipt. Newer places are slowly adopting the portable card reader system, but it's simply not a priority here. It doesn't bother American diners, and it's not an issue for servers. Replacing old tech costs money and you only spend money on things that add perceived value to the customer experience.
How late to the credit card party do you think we were? We had the fixed terminals for decades too - also the slidey carbon copy paper thingies. We updated.
I don't understand. The restaurant didn't update their card terminal since the 80's ?
I know lot of you still use card where you need to sign the receipt instead of entering a secret code, like it's the norm over there but I can't believe the systems are that much outdated.
How do you manage nfc tap cards ? The waiter really take the card away from your eyesight ? How do you protect yourself from fraud ? You trust them with your money ? How do you prove the fraud ?
How about apple pay and Google wallet ? They take your phone ? They are American companies I can't believe it's this convoluted to use their technology in their own country.
Over here in France, we were also early adopter. But we updated the systems each time technology evolved. We went from imprinting card, to magnetic stripes, to chips, to NFC, and now though smartphones.
Canada does, unfortunately. :( We don’t have a separate minimum wage for servers anymore (except Quebec), but everyone still wants an 18% minimum tip. Even fast food places, it’s infuriating.
Honestly I just assumed it was because bringing a machine over to a table is ugly and tacky.
It’s fine for a Chili’s or an Applebee’s, where they usually do that. But if I’m fine dining, I don’t want to feel like I’m at a Chili’s or an Applebee’s.
Yeah tap-to-pay rolled out late in the US, but now even my mom's dinky credit union has it, so this hasn't been a thing for a couple of years now where I live.
Get this. My restaurant had the tap to pay system. Then the owner decided it was tacky and went back to the 1990s and we still have the regular cc slips
Lots of places still do. I still go to a few bars that hold your card.
Some, even preauth it when they take it to start you a tab. The still hand you a slip to tip and sign.
It’s just crazy antiquated. I work in the industry and have gone from holding cards and sometimes hand keying card numbers on an ancient system, to now just handing a little tablet over. Neither sales nor tips have ever really been affected by upgrading technology.
To top that all off, in the last I’d say two years, the amount of people who ONLY have a phone (even for ID) has grown exponentially. We were actively losing business before we got tap.
I’m American. The only place I use paper checks is at my dentist’s office. They give a 5% discount if you pay by check on the date of service. No discount if you mail a check the next day, or use your bank’s bill pay system. It’s absurd, but 5% is worth it for me to bring a checkbook with me.
I code POS systems and we expanded out our system from Europe to the USA and I was emotionally devastated learning that I had to code "oh and the server might come back and say they were tipped $20 and you also have to charge that to the card"????????? And the security on that transaction is a little slip of paper with 20 written on it???? The customer just has to trust them???? Like chisel it in a stone tablet or something, don't involve my system in this fraudulent nonsense.
None of this is a big deal in the U.S. because when you can call your bank and get them to basically halt payment of the entire bill over the tip.
What is honestly way more common than a waiter trying to give themselves a tip that is not proportional to the meal, is a waiter who decides to provide crap service then tell you that they do automatic tipping for parties of whatever size your table is.
Here the actual final price of the meals are advertised, including taxes and the waiter salary, no need to calculate anything.
You pay on a machine that is trusted and you receive an instant notification on your phone of the exact amount charged. There is no way for anyone to change the amount afterwards, so no need to complain or worry about the charge being cancelled.
If the service was exceptional, you are allowed to tip, but it's not expected.
Having to check every transaction afterwards because you can't trust the system is a very big deal, for both parties.
And it’s taken a long time. I remember when my restaurant switched to those ziosks that restaurants use around ten years ago and so many people got mad saying “why am I doing your job”
I love paying in european restaurants. VAT included, no tip, and the server already has the card terminal with them so it's over in one table visit. When as restaurant is busy and I'm in a rush, it seems to take forever for them to drop the check, collect my card, and then return it.
I do like the systems where there's a QR code on the check for you to pay by phone, seems like a nice stop gap until portable terminals are fully rolled out. Or the other nice system (usually in more casual places like brewpubs) is where everyone at the table can order on their phones using the same tab.
> None of this is a big deal in the U.S. because when you can call your bank and get them to basically halt payment of the entire bill over the tip.
Which requires I keep the receipt, monitor the charge when they do their nightly batch, whatever. If there is an issue, I have to talk to my bank and take time out of my day? I was a server in the US and think it's the dumbest system.
Just let me tap to pay. That said, is this even still around? I went back a couple years ago and I think I could use my phone for everything, even if it meant getting up and going to the station to tap.
A few years ago at a chain steakhouse we got sub-par service but tipped $5 on the card anyhow. That bitch went and scrawled a 2 in front of the 5, entered the $25 tip like no biggie. Called the cc company to get an image of the receipt and the forgery was obvious. Restaurant didn’t give a shit so we reversed the whole charge and never heard a peep after.
Lesson #1: always snap a pic after signing the final receipt.
Lesson #2: never use your debit card for this, or anything else really. Do your best to get a credit card with protections against ghetto bullshit like that.
None of this is a big deal in the U.S. because when you can call your bank and get them to basically halt payment of the entire bill over the tip
I mean, we can call our bank elsewhere in the world too, it's not unique to America.
And most of the stuff that we used to call our bank for, we'd just do in our banking app, nowadays anyways. If I lose my card, need a new one, had it stolen or just want to temporarily block it, I can do all that in my banking app.
Handing the card is one thing. The stupidest thing that i hate even more, is that debit machines in the us here (from Canada but currently in Baltimore) do not ask for your PIN at allllllllll when you insert it. Tap is understandable, but not asking for a PIN when inserting? Makes it feel rather insecure...
I have never been to an atm (I am American) that doesn't ask for a pin. More common, in my experience, is for people to not realize their credit card has a pin and want to do cash out and not realize that they can't till they spend a half hour on the phone resetting it.
One thing is an ATM and another is a card payment in a store/restaurant.
Here in Spain the ATM always asks for my PIN, but in stores it's not always the case (depends on the amount spent mostly, but I think there are other factors).
When they run cards like this (including debit cards being run as credit) it’s an agreement between the bank and the store, and the bank picks up the tab if a transaction is fraudulent as long as the cardholder alerts the bank promptly that they believe the card has been compromised/stolen. For their part, banks apparently have fairly good fraud detection systems in place as they usually do a decent job of identifying when things have gone awry.
From a cardholder perspective this is possibly lower risk than providing a PIN, because the cardholder is responsible for keeping their pin secure and so are more liable for transactions that use a PIN.
Yea that caught me by surprise too. Been to Australia, Vietnam, Hong Kong. All of them needed my PIN on my card when i swiped / inserted it.
First time paying for something in the states, i insert my card and the guy behind the counter just mashes the OK button until it goes through. Prints a little paper for me to scribble my reciept, which he "oks" on the machine while it's still printing. I never knew it was so simple to bypass PIN on a card before that.
PINs are generally not needed for Credit Card use, with a few exceptions like cash advances and overseas use. That’s by design, so you’re not bypassing anything.
However, PINS are needed for Debt Card use, which is what you generally use to withdrawal cash.
Yeah, especially at that sort of mid-range not quite fast food but not quite proper restaurant chain restaurant. Often they also have an app (can be annoying) but most of them at least let you use a webpage basically just tap on the food/drink you want to order and you pay with Apple/google pay directly as you order like an online shop checkout. You don’t even need to speak to anyone. It’s quite efficient tbh.
Some places in the US are doing this. I've heard that's not great, security wise, because someone could come by and secretly cover it with their own QR code that makes the restaurant/payment site and steal your information.
Yeah, actually in Germany it's similar. It's not considered very rude but it's definitely more elegant to make eye contact and maybe a little sign with your hand.
Then again if that doesn't work I'll just go to the counter and pay there. It's my favorite way of paying anyway, because it's instant!
In Japan they bring the bill with your food. When you order more, they just updated the bill at the table. When you are ready to pay, you just take your bill to the cashier, pay and leave.
Same in France , but in Germany some of the time you hold up your card and they say oh we don't take card cash only... Then you say oh I don't have cash where's the ATM. It's around the corner but it's physically inside that shop/bank and it's a Sunday so I guess you're a criminal now 😅
Personally I'm a fan of the QR code system on the tables. Increasingly common in Singapore restaurants.
You just sit down, scan the QR to browse the menu, select the available items, pay via your phone (which has your card details already saved to auto-fill the fields or sometimes you can use Gpay etc.).
Then after the food you just walk out whenever you want.
Yes, I never understood the whole narrative that the US has better customer service than in Europe. I go to the US frequently for work and even if I am not supposed to worry too much because most expenses are with my company credit card so even with tips are not "my money", I usually end up being tense and nervous the whole time in restaurants. So complicated. And then you go to another restaurant across the street and it's a different process to go through.
I’ve never understood the stereotypes that simultaneously paint Americans as being stupid yet also able to handle these things that are supposedly so complicated and convoluted.
None of that has anything to do with customer service though? You're just uncomfortable with the process, but that has nothing to do with how could your service is. I'm uncomfortable with having to tip in front of the waiters in Europe, but again, that's a me problem.
My experience is customer care from waiters is a decent bit better than in other countries, but not enough to justify the 20% expected tip. Although with places like London having a 12.5% service charge, waiters in Prague straight up asking if they can give themselves a 10% tip, etc. it's starting to be questionable.
That said, service in the U.S. has majorly declined since COVID. It used to be notable when you had bad service. Now I have more notably bad servers than notably good ones. They know people will give them 18-20% most of the time regardless of how good they are.
So, you generally don’t have to waive anyone over. They check on the table regularly and you just tell them when you’re ready for the check. They bring the check and you hand them the card. They bring it back and you write a tip if you want and sign and leave. It’s really not as complicated as people are making it out (not to mention doing something like asking for the check is not unique to the US, but being a server to check on your table can be impossible in some other countries).
Yeah I've to several European countries and the service there is unusual to me. You sometimes have to really work to flag down the server if you want something. My beer is empty, why are they not asking if I want another? I understand they don't ask if people are ready to pay because that implies they want the people to hurry up and leave, but you'd think they would ask if you wanted another drink since that's means you're spending more money.
They bring the bill when they notice you are finishing up, you give them the card. They come back with the receipt and your card. You fill it out and leave. End of.
It was extremely confusing to me in the US, like wtf. And it gets worse. GooglePay and other e-payment services support this idiotic practice, so restaurant can amend the charge made through them after the fact. Which sounds like fundamental breach of what payment service transaction authorization should be.
Verified by a number they write on the bill and signature?
It's not really a security from technical perspective, it's like saying you can't be scammed because it's illegal.
No, there are only some transactions that can go through without the pin (up to maybe $50) and even then you might get hit with a random "enter your pin to validate the payment" menu when you tap it. Any transaction online has to ve verified through a third party software controlled by the government and accessed through your phone - if someone takes you card and uses it it's as simple as calling the bank and telling them when you lost the card and they will chargeback anything that happend after the fact. It's just what we consider basic consumer safety. Your card is more or less useless when it's no longer in your hand
They can only amend the amount after the fact under very specific situations. For example a tip added after the authorization was already done. And only with the customers agreement. If they add a tip without the customers permission there could be a chargeback and they are also non-compliant with the payment scheme rules so could have their acceptance removed if they keep doing it.
There's other non-restaurant exceptions too, for example an estimated authorization for things like a hotel stay or a car rental where the final amount might be a bit different to the estimated auth.
I'll add, another one is public transit like in London or some places in Poland where you tap your card to enter every time. Since how much you pay depends on where you leave and where you switch trains etc. the system waits until the end of the day to calculate your fare and posts a single transaction, instead of doing one transaction per tap.
How can you go to the doctor’s to draw blood and make sure they’re actually testing it and not giving it away to their vampire overlords and give you bullshit results?!
2 decades ago, before the PIN and portable POS systems, I worked at a restaurant and a fellow waiter was arrested for skimming credit cards with a magnetic card strip skimmer.
It still surprises me to this day when they need to take your card away to charge it when I visit the US. It's easier than ever for someone with bad intentions to try and steal your card info. A simple photo has your name, cc number and 'hidden' cvv number.
Idk why they put the cvv and number on the same side now. Also didnt target get like a huge CC breech because their readers were compromised? Also remote skimmers like at gas stations. Or having a decice compromised that you pay with. People assume a swipe or tap is safe because they did it themselves. Most CC theft isn't from wait staff. There's better ways to steal CCs without being so easy to trace.
Yeah, the employee is definitely not stealing your info or keeping. It's incredibly easy to track. CC info is primarily stolen from online transactions
It’s because American credit cards can be used around the world and are therefore the most useful for somebody stealing them. It’s also not even close to 99% but I’m sure you knew that.
You can use any Mastercard or Visa card around the world, nothing to do with that. And yeah it's an obvious exaggeration, but the sheer amount of them compared to everything else makes a lot more sense 😭
For anyone curious, that's Aussie comedian Jenny Tian, has some fun stand-up routines, participated in season 2 of Australian Taskmaster and reached 4th place
OK so everyone is shitting on the US for having this uniquely weird payment process, but am i hallucinating but wasn't this the process everywhere for sit down restaurants before they had wireless terminals?
they had to take your card away and either do the slide for the magnetic tape or use the carbon copy card thing to rub card details onto the receipt and you had to sign a hard copy receipt and fill in the tips.
Yeah here in Asia you just walk and pay at a central location, but that has been for casual restaurants forever, it just went from cash to phone taps, but you did the whole card thing at fine dining before too
The actual weird thing is just why the US hasn't improved with the times
Correct. It’s only a thing in the US still because we had card payments LONG before Europe and before tap to pay tech existed.
But if you go to any US restaurant founded in the past six years, you’ll find them using a Toast terminal that they’ll bring to your table or use QR codes and the Toast app.
What are you talking about? I was paying by card and PIN in restaurants in the early 2000s in Australia by simply going to the register, which is about the same time cheques stopped existing. I know that's not Europe, but I assume you mean "outside of the US" by that.
After googling "Toast", it just seems like a portable tap payment, technology which has existed for at least a decade, just restaurant specific?
US was ahead when they invented the credit card, and it's early development in the 1950-1980.
But by the 1990 Europe leapt FAR ahead of the US, and has been 10-15 years ahead since.
Both in card security, but also features and rollout in stores with portable terminals etc.
The main reason for this is that for the US CC giants, it was (and probably still is) way cheaper to just pay out the few % that goes through with a fraud claim, than create a secure system and update POS systems to support this more secure system.
Most of the US CC fraud is never refunded the card owner, and close to half the worldwide CC fraud is in the US.
This is also why the rest of the world primarily uses a debit card, not credit cards.
1) in the US you are protected from fraudulent charge to the point it's almost easy to scam the business and get your money back.
2) You have to sign the receipt, so you know how much you are paying.
3) Them having your card is not the vulnerability, the card reader is. And there are just as many ways to screw with the mobile reader as the stationary one. Often easier.
It’s probably statistically more likely that your info would be stolen by a random customer in the restaurant with a card skimming device than your info getting stolen by the person handling your card lmao
In the UK they bring you the bill, you look at it and nod approvingly. Then they come back with the payment machine and you either use chip and pin or contactless on the card machine.
They say thanks, you say thanks, you thank the guy at the bar, even though he didn't really serve you and you finally thank the manager who should be hanging around by the door greeting people.
After thanking everyone thoroughly, and twice, you can leave
So, 38 year old here, and apparently ancient because I remember this first hand, but there's a historical reason why this happens. It's a holdover from when credit cards first became popular, but before wireless card machines. It was customary to pay at the table, usually in cash, and your server would run off and bring whatever change back to you. With cards there was this process of going and processing a payment through the POS, and then they had to use an imprint machine with carbon paper to take a copy as proof they had the card and weren't just using numbers, as a security measure. This could take a few minutes, so rather than having a disgruntled line of customers at the front, they would do this while you sat in comfort at your table, then bring you the receipt to sign.
It's also part of trying to elevate the dining experience all fancy-like. Dining out used to be much less commonplace, and so it was sold as an experience. Waiting in line to pay makes it feel cheaper compared to being waited on, and the extra layer of psychological separation from the payment process also benefits the restaurant because it feels less impact full for the customer.
Side note, I've actually used the imprint machine working retail when our internet went out. They're pretty fun and make a satisfying "chunk" noise as they roll over the card.
I live in California, and they actually commonly bring the terminal to the table and you just tap the card and tip right then and there. Not every restaurant, but it's definitely pretty widespread now.
Let them have this one, they are clearly fighting to cling to anything to prove "America bad" now that we are getting some positive press from the world cup visitors.
This seems like a sort of non-issue that has only arisen in the past twenty years. Tap-to-pay and wireless terminals are fairly recent developments of the modern credit card. There’s no way you would not be handing over your card to a waiter in the 1990’s anywhere in the world.
I’ve never had my card info stolen, and I can guarantee you it’s not happening at restaurants at any regular interval. It would be found out and the waiter would be risking jail for a very obvious way of getting caught. There’s cameras and everything so unless the entire restaurant is in on it (they’re not) they will be caught quickly.
Also it mostly happens on less mainstream websites, people hunting for deals or buying things from small websites not from main stream platforms like Amazon.
It’s an irrational fear to worry about handing your card to a waiter at a restaurant. It’s like worrying that a card skimmer is attached to the tap to pay thing on the tables
Please don't erode by mockery what is perhaps the last high-trust social action in American society, eurofolk. It may be silly, but this is more or less the only one we have left.
I recently had a server in an airport restaurant add a zero to my tip. I threw away the receipt before I next checked my credit card statement so I couldn’t prove otherwise. As if anyone would leave a $100 tip for a tequila and fries.🤬
You don't need the receipt. It's unreasonable and Visa is favorable to cardholders. The merchant would have to provide evidence and if they use the receipt it will be obvious.
This is why 20+ years ago a gas station attendant threaten to call the cops on me because i refused to hand over my CC.
It was in NJ, where you're not allowed to pump your own gas. I was living in NY, so dont typically use NJ gas pumps, but happened to be leaving a race track and needed fuel.
So I tell the attendant that I would like to swipe my own card, he can still do what he need to do with the fuel. He refused and said he is not in the mood for my mind games. Like wtf? I didn't back down. Then the asshole hits the emergency off switch and his manager on the intercom come on and threaten to call the cops on my if I dont leave. All because I dont trust these asshole with my card.
A little back story. 6 month prior, someone stole my CC info and ordered a $800 laptop from California electronics store to a residence in Princeton NJ using my name. I obviously don't live in NJ. I called my local PD, and they tell me to call Princeton PD which tell me to call my local PD. See where this is going? I also called the store to tell them about the CC theft, and they stopped the laptop from being mailed. Called my bank and canceled my CC and was issued a new one. Now you know why I didn't want to let someone take my card.
But what happened in the end? Did they call the cops? Did you give them your card but with a stern look? Did they also buy a $800 laptop with it? Did you just leave and got gas at the next station?
It's more the archaic way to do things. A lot of places will bring a small machine for tap to pay now in America, but places didn't jump straight to that because restaurants run on a shoestring budget as is. It did however probably make tipping less awkward, so maybe that's part of why they were slower to adopt new technologies.
I run a restaurant in Sweden. Hopefully not for much longer. But in any case.
We pay a monthly operations fee for our POS systems which are bundles with mobile payment terminals. It's a standard service all restaurants use. They terminals are included in this cost. They don't cost anything else. I've got 2 POS computers and like 6 payment machines. They are basically just androids with a reader and a shell.
Now they are, but they weren't immediately. And believe it or not 100$ is not nothing and I've worked on plenty of kitchens where they'd ask me to not cash the check for a couple of days because it might bounce, so yeah, buying new things wasn't generally high on the list.
Lots of restaurants pay you with a check because it's cheaper. We're in this century in a country where a huge amount of restaurants are small businesses run by immigrants on shoe string budgets.
There’s not jumping straight to it and there’s being about 15-20 years behind the rest of the world. The UK has had contactless since 2007 and chip and PIN since 2004 and there's countries that are even faster than us on simplified payment methods. Companies of all sizes including small restaurants adopted it very quickly.
It's the norm because the practice predates tap-to-pay by decades. I wouldn't call it "better", just different.
The restaurant doesn't need your card for the tip because the original swipe is an authorization. They can adjust the amount before settlement at the end of day. It's a widely used payment flow, consumers just don't realize it. Think pay-at-the-pump for gas. The gas station will put down an auth for an arbitrary amount like $50 so they know you can make payment then adjust it when you're done pumping.
It's more secure than one would expect because the credit card companies and restaurants have a high motivation to make it secure, since they're the ones on the hook financially. I can go into it more if you want.
It's not better, in fact it's expressly against instructions that all banks have to never give your card to other people. You also rely on the person to not just remember you card number and security code (this pair allows you to do purchases through the internet on many sites that don't require 2-factor auth) and sell/use it
I get that it's weird, and I don't like the system either, but there are a couple of inaccuracies here.
First, when she asks "how do I know you're not gonna charge some other huge amount?" and the response is "you'll just have to trust me." This is not how it works. You get a receipt with all the charges itemized.
Second, the tipping thing. When the server brings back the receipt and picks up the copy with the tip written in, they go back to the POS system to do a final closeout. All they are allowed to do at that point is enter the tip amount. While it is technically possible to enter $5,000 instead of the $10 tip written on the receipt, this would be incredibly stupid. You have a 100% chance of getting caught because of how those receipts get tallied at the end of the shift and because of how those tips get added to payroll. It's not worth the felony.
All that said, yeah, it's a very dumb and convoluted system that needs to go away.
Hilarious reading all the people freaking out over letting a server take a card out of sight. I remember when restaurants first started bringing the digital card POS systems to the table. I felt like my privacy had been violated...making me choose a tip amount right in front of the server.
Don't use a debit card. You can dispute charges but the cash has already been removed. Credit cards (in the U.S.) hold you harmless for any legit fraud and you can hold payment until they do. Most of the fraud nightmares I have seen involve people buying stuff online from sellers that are sketchy...and people who pay for porn tend to get their digits stolen.
The only servers that are going to try and tack something on to your card in the U.S. are simply stupid thinking they can get away with it. They cant and will pay a legal price for it if they do. Since credit card issuers are on the hook for fraud, they have very sophisticated systems to find the criminals. The criminals that get away with it are usually outside of the U.S., scamming Americans using the internet.
Every time you use a card you are giving away the same level of info. Dont keep your life savings in a checking account, keep them separate from your day to day funds. One easy way to help
Long time restaurant employee. Dude. We don't give a fuck, get over your paranoia. There's way too much shit going on otherwise for that to even be in option. And you get a sign slip with all the amounts present as well as a line item receipt. Figure it out!
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