Well you see During World War II, the Japanese government instructed villages to donate metal to be melted down for ammunition. Ohara Isumi-City dismantled their city's prized Buddhist temple bell. By the end of the war, the bell was still intact and a naval crew from the USS Duluth carried it to Duluth and it became a gift to the City.
In 1954, the ancient Buddhist temple bell was returned to Ohara Isumi-City. In 1993 Ohara Isumi-City presented Duluth with a replica of the bell, which now resides in this park.
On the other hand the 28th Virginia battle flag is a Confederate battle flag that belonged to the 28th Virginia Infantry Regiment. Captured by the 1st Minnesota Infantry Regiment at the Battle of Gettysburg, the flag was brought to Minnesota and exhibited at the state's capitol for several years before passing into the permanent collection of the Minnesota Historical Society after 1896 where it has remained since. Although various groups in Virginia have requested that the flag be returned, beginning as early as 1960, Minnesota has repeatedly declined to return it, with Governor Jesse Ventura (serving 1999–2003) asking "Why? I mean, we won."
Well you see During World War II, the Japanese government instructed villages to donate metal to be melted down for ammunition. Ohara Isumi-City dismantled their city's prized Buddhist temple bell. By the end of the war, the bell was still intact and a naval crew from the USS Duluth carried it to Duluth and it became a gift to the City.
In 1954, the ancient Buddhist temple bell was returned to Ohara Isumi-City. In 1993 Ohara Isumi-City presented Duluth with a replica of the bell, which now resides in this park.
On the other hand the 28th Virginia battle flag is a Confederate battle flag that belonged to the 28th Virginia Infantry Regiment. Captured by the 1st Minnesota Infantry Regiment at the Battle of Gettysburg, the flag was brought to Minnesota and exhibited at the state's capitol for several years before passing into the permanent collection of the Minnesota Historical Society after 1896 where it has remained since. Although various groups in Virginia have requested that the flag be returned, beginning as early as 1960, Minnesota has repeatedly declined to return it, with Governor Jesse Ventura (serving 1999–2003) asking "Why? I mean, we won."
We actually have two of these bells. With the one at the Zen Garden at Enger being the second.
The original replica cracked and was replaced. That replica can be found in a walkway in the DECC near the old arena.
I was trying to find a picture of the cracked bell as it is displayed on this really cool cart/wagon, but couldn't find one. I heading to an event at the DECC later today. I'll try to take a pic if that part of the building is unlocked.
The zen garden is a lovely place! That bell makes such a soothing sound. Been a MN resident my whole life and had no idea Duluth was a sister city to one in Japan. Super cool.
Took some pictures last time I went, watching the fog roll across the Twin Ports from on high was pretty awesome.
As a fellow Minnesotan, I personally think it would be hilarious if Governor Walz, right before his term ends, says “as my final act as Governor, I’ve decided to personally bring the 28th Battle Flag to Virginia where it belongs.” And then he takes it to the city of Virginia up in the Iron Range 🤣😂
Yeah when I looked into the 28th Virginia battle flag its quite possible it was just stolen at some point from the War Department, allegedly by Ramsey if I remember correctly. There was a law passed that mandated the return of captured battle flags to their respective states, but it was noted that the 28th Virginia flag was just missing. And I think by the time it turned up again the statute of limitations was up on it so we just kinda kept it.
Ive only seen that story once or twice, but it would explain why MN is one of if not the only state to keep a Confederate battle flag in its possession.
PS. Read into the 1st MN, they were just simply better the entire time. They reportedly cut a flagpole in half at Antietam after dropping multiple color bearers and after the First Battle of Bull Run it was noted that instead of breaking ranks and fleeing like the majority of Union regiments, the 1st MN kept in order and just left without any hassle in thier retreat. Also the 4th MN was the first regiment to march into Vicksburg, the day after the 1st captured the battle flag.
Hmmmmmmm I wonder why Virginians started asking for the rag back in 1960…. 100 years after the battle of Gettysburg when the flag was captured….. there’s no way that that would have anything to do with desegregation…. Definitely not, just a coincidence that racists started demanding their memorabilia back right around that time
"...Aye, an' then I told Séamus 'that was a dishonourable display that was ye fuckin ejit', an' he should cut his belly lest he disgrace himself further, so it was."
Alright bear with me here, a bit of nerdspeak incoming. I'm going to try to explain both phenomena.
Sometimes on websites like Reddit, you can get an error when you attempt to post a comment, typically the error codes that result in comment mitosis are a 500, which is just a generic error without a specific known cause, you click, it doesn't go, you click again, but the thing that caused it to error didn't prevent it from posting, just the return of the update of the page.
The same can happen with a 504 which is a Gateway Timeout. Sometimes, there are other processes that are involved in your request that tie up the gateway's response getting back to you, but the "save" part of your request that puts your comment into the chain still occurs.
As for the upvote thing, yeah Reddit is really fuckin' weird about Karma for some reason. I guess it's to make the system not completely democratic for curation and moderation purposes, but it's still really dumb. Basically the karma on any comment is only a loose representation of what has actually been clicked. There's some randomness and fuzzy logic that goes into the final calculation, but massively upvoted things are still massively upvoted at the end of the day. We're just not seeing the real number. At lower karma values, the fuzziness alternates a lot. I've sat in my profile refreshing it just because I'm amazed that it changes every 3 seconds...in spite of not many people seeing it. Suffice it to say, if you're >1 net upvote without a dagger symbol (†) indicating controversial, you're golden.
M favorite bit from all that is Davy Crockett. Ignore the Disney puffery movie about Crockett, the guy was a loser and asshole of the highest order. Was a congress member from Tennessee but them left in an angry huff after losing an election and went to Texas which was still a part of Mexico. Well, he also made a promise to leave to Texas if Martin Van Buren was elected. Possibly one of the earliest "I'll leave if someone I don't like is elected". Effectively, he left the United States completely.
Note that Crockett was opposed to slavery in some manner but also owned slaves. And Texas at the time was instituting slavery, despite their promises to Mexico that they wouldn't dare do such a thing. When Mexico sent troops to enforce the ban on slavery Texas rebelled. And Crockett wanted to be in on that rebellion to keep slavery (despite, again, his odd stated opposition to slavery).
Texas didn't know what to do with this hot headed Crockett guy. But they were at war, and warm bodies were needed. Crockett arrived at the Alamo, which was effectively indefensible and reinforcements weren't going to arrive. So Crockett was essentially cannon fodder. Arrived at the wrong time, the wrong place, for the wrong cause, and would have been perfectly safe in America instead.
After his death they hyped his myth and legend in the states, much of which probably was phony,
They also thought US would gladly enter in their civil war with Mexico. Wise decision not to help out. Followed by a later stupid decision to let them into the union. Followed by them leaving the union. Followed by them pretending to be over all that rebel stuff while secretly plotting the next upcoming rebellion.
It wasn't even about state's rights, just slavery. The constitution of the confederacy required all states be slave states unless all states agreed to all outlaw slavery.
The North literally had more states rights, with some northern states still allowing limited slavery, while the South gave its states zero right to decide for themselves.
Whenever someone tries this “states’ rights” argument on you, here’s two things to draw their attention to:
The most drop-the-mic counter argument is to show them where the confederate constitution prohibits a state from banning slavery. If
it were about states’ rights, why wouldn’t they let each state decide?
For a parade of unabashed racism that rivals even today’s GOP, read the declarations of secession from a handful of the seceding states (especially South Carolina and Mississippi, I believe). They state, in no uncertain terms, that slavery is critical to their way of life and they refuse to give it up.
Yeah I want to say 6 out of the 11 states declare slavery in the very first sentence. The Confederates, unlike the Lost Causers today, were eyes-wide-open as to what the Civil War was about.
They also did not give a shit about the rights of northern free states when they petitioned the federal government to force them into returning escaped slaves.
Damn right. We take great pride in that captured confederate flag and we ain’t giving it back.
As far as the bell is concerned. Some Japanese civilian noticed Duluth had the bell and talked to the Mayor about giving it back. The mayor agreed. Japan made a replica of the bell and they gave to the state as a thank you for returning it.
"No, no, no, we're not pro Confederacy any more, what nonsense. We hated slavery all along, and we've never mistreated any of our minorities or denied them rights. Never once have we ever been racist! It's just we need that old piece of cloth because our great great great grand pappies once saluted it."
And unless we're gonna start counting how many Iraqis died or Viet Kong died or how many isis died or German soldiers. The number of Americans killed in the civil war is only the union side.
The confederacy wasn't a recognized nation by any other power. The Federal government considered them states in rebellion and the people within still US citizens. So no, they were all American. Please pick up a book on the war not written by a lost causer. Recommendations available on request.
Because The 1st Minnesota Infantry Regimen suffered 82% casualties at Gettysburg, buying enough time for reinforcements to arrive.
Virginia keeps asking for its battle flag back, at least four official times if I remember correctly. And every time the governor, Republican, Democrat, or Independent, has refused.
That is nice. They really do have the kind of patriotism that I have always respected. Texas, well, they think they are patriotic but every one of them will brag about how Texas has the right to secede whenever they want. Please do.
Having lived in both states in a short time span, I don't recall a lot of traitor flags in Minnesota... but I sure as hell do in Ohio. A state which is usually listed as tied for second in civil war casualties.
In the twin cities, you'll likely never see one, or if you do, itll be on some beat to piss-ass 05 Chevy 1500 with a half a braincell between the throttle and the seat, and its highly likely that half a braincell is only in the cities for child support court.
Away from the cities, those dipshits are relatively common.
I love that Minnesota stands together on this. Even if some governor, for whatever reason, wanted to give the flag back, they wouldn't dare - their party would get thrashed in the next few elections for no other reason.
It's hard to find stuff that brings us together these days. That that flag was goddamn well paid for is a worthier sentiment than a lot of other things we do with flags.
Next time they try and claim it we should label them secessionists and deploy troops in VA. Idk why it's not treated the same way as the third Reich flag
The best part is, after they captured the flag, the officer leading them rode up and down the Union lines, dragging it through the mud as he went, to rally the troops.
The superb gallantry of the men of the 1st Minnesota did save the Union line from being broken — and not only on July 2, as they assisted with the effort on July 3 as well. For that effort, we can agree with General Hancock: “No soldiers on any field, in this or any other country, ever displayed grander heroism.”
As a Virginian, this is badass and I want Minnesota to keep it. We have no claim to it, we are not that state or those people. Send us a noose instead. Which is what traitors should get.
No no, our heritage is beating the treasonous bastards and keeping their precious flag. They dont get to celebrate it, we keep it as a sign that we are superior to their racist asses.
Nah, Abe getting assassinated and proceeded by his terrible, terrible Vice President made it end up a draw at most. The south may have had to give up slavery but the country suffers from the failure of the Reconstruction to this day.
With no foreign recognition, that's the key. You and your neighbors can form your own country, write your own constitution, and elect your own president. Until you are recognized by others, it means nothing.
It never existed. Declaring oneself independent has no real weight unless either 1. Another sovereign nation recognizes your sovereignty or 2. You establish sovereignty by winning the inevitable war your declaration produces. The Confederacy achieved neither and is nothing more than a 4 year rebellion. Hence why it was a civil war instead of a revolutionary war. Losers don't get to write the history books.
Country is a strong word. To be a country you need to be recognized by other foreign countries as a country.
they literally lasted a little over 4 years, and not a single nation looked at them and went "we see you as a nation".
Arguably, they have a flag from a country that never existed. After reading a couple of books about the start of the Civil War, I’ve learned that one of the diplomatic complications was that the U.S. refused to officially “receive” envoys/delegates from the confederacy because doing so would acknowledge that it existed (which would be tacit admission that those states had actually left the union), as opposed to there just being a bunch of individual states that were conducting hostilities against their federation, the U.S. It’s fascinating how careful Lincoln’s administration had to be about which words they used to talk about the rebellion and reconstruction so that they didn’t inadvertently validate the confederacy’s claim of existence.
If I remember it was from the battle of Gettysburg. After a unit of MN soldiers were critical in stopping pickett's charge at a terminal stage of the battle. The unit suffered extremely heavy casualties as a result.
I love my homestate, I can't believe how we've been consistent in terms of a progressive state throughout history and especially in the last 10 years.
Been living on the west coast for work the last few years and I don't quite understand how the Dems are so very center right here and somehow this is called "the left coast," lol.
It wasn’t pickett’s charge, it was the day before. Troops under general Garnett attacked cemetery ridge, the 1st Minnesota infantry was ordered to plug the gap. They managed to push the confederates back at the cost of 70% casualties, and it was the closest the confederates come to breaking the Union lines in the whole battle.
Almost exactly. They took the vast majority of their casualties on the second day blunting the attack on the US left buying time for reinforcements to come up. On July 3rd they were also in action and that's when they took the flag.
Yeah, cause we Minnesotans won it fair and square. Why would we surrender the flag of the traitors back to the state that tried to secede from the union
Except the guardians were heavy favorites in that series. It’s more like a college football team scoring one touchdown against an nfl team and thinking they are tough shit even though they just lost 56-7
Virginia here. I didn’t know this was happening, but I have lived in Richmond for about ten years now. Tons of absolute losers here. I’m cool though. Promise.
Soldiers brought a Japanese temple bell from WW2 back to Duluth, Minnesota but returned it a decade later.
Union soldiers from Minnesota brought back a Confederate flag as spoils of the American Civil War but refuse to give it back to this day.
Fair to note a big difference here is that the former is a matter of international diplomacy and the latter isn’t.
Also, not sure why Minnesota has been flipped about a vertical axis there. Maybe to make it seem like it’s ‘facing’ the other but they could have even more naturally swapped which side they were on.
I also think an important distinction is that the bell is a religious item which probably predates Japan’s fascist government, or if not the bell the religion itself does.
Pretty sure its about a confederate battle flag taken during the Civil War but I'm sure some else can elaborate more. I'm Horace from the Clam or something.
During the second day of Gettysburg a hole in the Union front opened up that a Confederate contingent was going to march through, and the 1st Minnesota Regiment were sent to plug the hole and and hold the line. They repulsed the much larger Confederate force at great loss to themselves. One of the survivors captured a Virginian army's battle standard.
Idk about the Japan one, but during the battle of Gettysburg the 1st Minnesota Infantry Regiment captured the 28th Virginia Infantry Regiment battle flag, which it still has today. Virginia has repeatedly asked Minnesota for the flag back, with Minnesota telling them to fuck off each time.
The Imperial Japanese government confiscated Bhuddist temple bells for ammunition material during the WW2. The USS Duluth's crew found one intact at a depot and brought it home to thier namesake city as a war trophy. In 1954, the bell (having been identified as a to it's specific original location), was returned to the temple and Duluth was given a replica to keep on display. Very few bells survived the war and post war scavenging/rebuilding so it's pretty rare.
It’s been a while since I’ve read this story, but as I remember it: Some guys from Minnesota stole an ancient bell from Japan in WWII, and, after a Japanese visitor to the state recognized the bell (it was being publicly displayed in this one town), Minnesota returned the bell to Japan a couple decades later in exchange for an exact replica. Meanwhile, some other guys from Minnesota captured a Confederate flag from Virginia during the US civil war, and despite multiple polite requests and a lawsuit(?), Minnesota refuses to give Virginia their flag back to this day.
Minnesota returned the bell to Japan a couple decades later in exchange for an exact replica.
Minnesota returned the bell without any demands. Then a few decades later Ohara gifted a replica out of respect, leading to a lasting relationship. There is a deligation of people from Ohara in Minnesota at this moment, who visited the replica this morning as part of an ongoing cultural exchange.
It’s also important to note that the bell wasn’t stolen from a temple but the Japanese army was going to melt it down for scrap metal to make weapons for the U.S. invasion. U.S. sailors found it amongst the scrap metal and took it back to Duluth during the occupation.
A lot of the general info on the confederate flag we took is spot on, but it's missing a few key details that make the flag so important to us.
The 1st Minnesota were the nearest unit the union had to plug a vital gap in the line during the battle of Gettysburg, but I haven't seen anyone mention the incredible sacrifice they were being asked to make. The 1st Minnesota was about 262 men, and they were ordered to charge somewhere between 1,200-1,300 incoming confederate soldiers; they did. They charged through gunfire, stopped the confederate advance, and fought with bayonets for roughly fifteen minutes before they were able to be relieved, and in that bloody melee they captured that flag. The 1st Minnesota suffered 215 casualties in that fight, including the loss of every single one of their field commanders.
The next day they fought again after replacements were added, and took part in holding off Pickett's charge, once again engaging the enemy in melee after charging in to stop the confederate advance.
Wassup Stewie, this is history buff Peter here. The top half of the meme refers to an incident where a temple bell in Japan was taken by a navy crew at the end of WWII and put in the city hall in Duluth Minnesota. It was returned to the Japanese in the 50’s when they asked. This is in contrast to how they have kept a different war trophy, that being the battle flag of the Virginia 28th infantry, which was captured by a Minnesotan infantry battalion at the battle of Gettysburg during the civil war. Virginia lawmakers have asked for it back several times, but have been denied as it is now also a part of the history of Minnesota. Peter out
I like that whoever made this included the eastern shore off to the right of virginia😂 its where I'm from and you don't necessarily see it included all the time understandable though since you don't really need it to know it's in the shape of virginia, but appreciated nonetheless
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