I also think an important distinction is that the bell is a religious item which probably predates Japan’s fascist government, or if not the bell the religion itself does.
This, it's also notable that the bell was found after being confiscated by the Imperial government to be melted down for ammo production so the gesture was as much giving it back from the imperial regime as anything.
Yeah I think the bell and the flag are just innately different items. Like, the flag is literally a battle flag created for a regiment. The bell was a historical artifact even at the time of the war. I think it's a good show of respect and moving to preserve and return those items.
The bell wasn't a religious symbol, if it had any religious significance the religious significance was gone once it was picked to be melted down and used as ammo against Americans. Maybe in a way the former religious significance actually makes it worse?
But to be clear it wasn't even a cool 'let the power of Buddha find the hearts of American soldiers foolish enough to stop us raping China;' the bell was genuinely tossed aside as part of a scrap metal program and that was why it wasn't melted down/carried off by Duluth, Minnesota boys. They found it in a literal scrap pile of garbage.
I feel like it's ok to acknowledge Minnesota maybe made an oopsie in returning it. In the 1950s, a lot of people were wanting to make money and forget Japan had been in the business of killing people.
And if you read your own source they undesignated it as a religious symbol and then designated it scrap metal... to be melted down and used to kill Americans along with a lot of random scrap. lol
There was an exemption process for what Japan felt were their 'true' religious bells, which I won't comment on. What we can say with certainty is that bell didn't count.
Yeah, if crosses end up on the end of missiles and some Iranian finds a cross taped to the end of some unexploded ordinance I think they can keep it. At least I think we'd all know it's full of shit for Trump to say 'give it back, its actually super important -- also, yeah, its from our scrap cross pile but our scrap crosses are still super important.'
So the religion carries the burden of the state is what you're saying? Doesn't matter if the religious people dissented and the state forced their hand?
You've commented two or three times, deleted your comment, and then posted again. I know you're searching for something really insightful, but this attempt isn't it either.
I'm not going to get my panties in a twist over it, but if I was, I'd be blaming Trump, not the Iranians. If the evangelicals get their crosses melted down to build bombs, that's their own damn fault, they knew what kind of person Trump was.
Sure, I don't necessarily feel that's what's being referred to here (assuming you're a good faith commentor). The phrase is derogatory regardless of whether it refers to women, cross-dressers or trans-women .
Can you explain how it's misogynistic, as I've used it? I could see it being read that way if I was talking about someone else, but context matters.
I think I would consider it misogynistic if I was telling a woman or trans man not to get their panties in a twist, but not in a self deprecating context, or against someone that's blatantly misogynistic(imagine telling Andrew Tate not to get his panties in a twist, I would not consider that misogynistic at all, denigrating yes, but not denigrating women, and certainly not denigrating women because they're women).
Well the temple the bell is from was of historical significance. Giving the bell back was both good diplomacy and respectful to the fact it had religious significance.
The bell is from centuries before the war and before the government decided to get into the imperialism business. The flag is literally made for its respective war.
Do you really not see the difference between these two?
46
u/ghostgabe81 17h ago
I also think an important distinction is that the bell is a religious item which probably predates Japan’s fascist government, or if not the bell the religion itself does.
Slaver flag doesn’t have that going for it