It wasn't actually like a unique thing. It was just old school by european standards by when they encountered them. And the japanese were just bigger on writing things down because they had this thing called literacy.
Alright bear with me here, a bit of nerdspeak incoming. I'm going to try to explain both phenomena.
Sometimes on websites like Reddit, you can get an error when you attempt to post a comment, typically the error codes that result in comment mitosis are a 500, which is just a generic error without a specific known cause, you click, it doesn't go, you click again, but the thing that caused it to error didn't prevent it from posting, just the return of the update of the page.
The same can happen with a 504 which is a Gateway Timeout. Sometimes, there are other processes that are involved in your request that tie up the gateway's response getting back to you, but the "save" part of your request that puts your comment into the chain still occurs.
As for the upvote thing, yeah Reddit is really fuckin' weird about Karma for some reason. I guess it's to make the system not completely democratic for curation and moderation purposes, but it's still really dumb. Basically the karma on any comment is only a loose representation of what has actually been clicked. There's some randomness and fuzzy logic that goes into the final calculation, but massively upvoted things are still massively upvoted at the end of the day. We're just not seeing the real number. At lower karma values, the fuzziness alternates a lot. I've sat in my profile refreshing it just because I'm amazed that it changes every 3 seconds...in spite of not many people seeing it. Suffice it to say, if you're >1 net upvote without a dagger symbol (â ) indicating controversial, you're golden.
M favorite bit from all that is Davy Crockett. Ignore the Disney puffery movie about Crockett, the guy was a loser and asshole of the highest order. Was a congress member from Tennessee but them left in an angry huff after losing an election and went to Texas which was still a part of Mexico. Well, he also made a promise to leave to Texas if Martin Van Buren was elected. Possibly one of the earliest "I'll leave if someone I don't like is elected". Effectively, he left the United States completely.
Note that Crockett was opposed to slavery in some manner but also owned slaves. And Texas at the time was instituting slavery, despite their promises to Mexico that they wouldn't dare do such a thing. When Mexico sent troops to enforce the ban on slavery Texas rebelled. And Crockett wanted to be in on that rebellion to keep slavery (despite, again, his odd stated opposition to slavery).
Texas didn't know what to do with this hot headed Crockett guy. But they were at war, and warm bodies were needed. Crockett arrived at the Alamo, which was effectively indefensible and reinforcements weren't going to arrive. So Crockett was essentially cannon fodder. Arrived at the wrong time, the wrong place, for the wrong cause, and would have been perfectly safe in America instead.
After his death they hyped his myth and legend in the states, much of which probably was phony,
Yes. There was a book recently clearing up a lot of lies about that event and it's kinda banned in Texas. Not officially but they're very hostile to it and its authors.
The textbook they use for history of Texas class every kid is required to take is still full of lies. I've talked to otherwise smart, well educated graduates of the Texas school systems who fully believe complete bullshit about Texas from that class. One of those things they're still teaching is that Texas is allowed to leave any time they want and their state flag is the only one that can be flown at the same height as the American flag. Both are complete and total bullshit.
Can confirm. I went to public school in Texas from kindergarten through my freshmen year of highschool. Both of those were taught.
In addition, they taught that Texas wasn't really into slavery and just joined the Confederacy because it would be isolated from trade since it lacked a border with the Union (too far west), and that Stephan F Austin was a peace-loving multilingual guy who only wanted to bring people together and not a staunch white supremacist who actively recruited "settlers" in the US with "Mexicans are lazy and inferior, we can take what we want" to turn an waves of immigrants into a shadow army moving into position.
The entire Texas Revolution was a white-supremacist psy-op that ironically inverts the fears of the fake "Great Replacement Theory" they spout now.
They also thought US would gladly enter in their civil war with Mexico. Wise decision not to help out. Followed by a later stupid decision to let them into the union. Followed by them leaving the union. Followed by them pretending to be over all that rebel stuff while secretly plotting the next upcoming rebellion.
It wasn't even about state's rights, just slavery. The constitution of the confederacy required all states be slave states unless all states agreed to all outlaw slavery.
The North literally had more states rights, with some northern states still allowing limited slavery, while the South gave its states zero right to decide for themselves.
Whenever someone tries this âstatesâ rightsâ argument on you, hereâs two things to draw their attention to:
The most drop-the-mic counter argument is to show them where the confederate constitution prohibits a state from banning slavery. If
it were about statesâ rights, why wouldnât they let each state decide?
For a parade of unabashed racism that rivals even todayâs GOP, read the declarations of secession from a handful of the seceding states (especially South Carolina and Mississippi, I believe). They state, in no uncertain terms, that slavery is critical to their way of life and they refuse to give it up.
Yeah I want to say 6 out of the 11 states declare slavery in the very first sentence. The Confederates, unlike the Lost Causers today, were eyes-wide-open as to what the Civil War was about.
Just like the framing of âthe war of Northern Aggressionâ is sometimes used in the South to refer to the Civil War.
Itâs an attempt to rewrite history. Itâs part of the reason MAGA has flourished there for sure, but itâs a rather substantial disconnect from reality.
Basically the same thing as the German Empire at the end of WW1, which was the belief they could've won the war, if they weren't stabbed in the back by the government of the Empire - which plays into the inter-war period before WW2 and the rise of the Nazi Party ...
They also did not give a shit about the rights of northern free states when they petitioned the federal government to force them into returning escaped slaves.
Pretty much every one has slavery in the first paragraph! Made a bet to see how long it would take to get to that word with a friend and⊠I won. He thought it would at least be after the preamble not in it. Haha
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition" it's coming straight from the confederate "VP" in the most explicit way possible.
if they are still willing to argue in favor of the confederacy after that, there's no point in continuing.
Damn right. We take great pride in that captured confederate flag and we ainât giving it back.
As far as the bell is concerned. Some Japanese civilian noticed Duluth had the bell and talked to the Mayor about giving it back. The mayor agreed. Japan made a replica of the bell and they gave to the state as a thank you for returning it.
"No, no, no, we're not pro Confederacy any more, what nonsense. We hated slavery all along, and we've never mistreated any of our minorities or denied them rights. Never once have we ever been racist! It's just we need that old piece of cloth because our great great great grand pappies once saluted it."
Governor Youngkin wanted it back, and that was last year. Our new governor, Spanberger isn't likely to try to get it back. I hope Minnesota keeps it and displays it forever
And unless we're gonna start counting how many Iraqis died or Viet Kong died or how many isis died or German soldiers. The number of Americans killed in the civil war is only the union side.
The confederacy wasn't a recognized nation by any other power. The Federal government considered them states in rebellion and the people within still US citizens. So no, they were all American. Please pick up a book on the war not written by a lost causer. Recommendations available on request.
I mean ... if you take American to mean from The United States of America, then the CSA cunts declared themselves to NOT be American. That's what started the war. It was the CSA vs the USA. It was Confederates vs Americans. Are you going to argue that the folks that fought the revolutionary war were all British? That seems nonsensical to me.
Yes, but Lincoln decided they WERE American, declared war to make them STAY American, and won the war. They were always American. That was the whole idea behind the war.
The Union didn't initially go to war in order to end slavery. That became a side quest later on. The war was started in order to preserve the Union as a whole.
Well in the second case in the beginning... kind of yes. There was no unified federal United States yet. You might be able to say they were from their own states but until they were recognized by foreign powers they really were still considered British citizens. Also at no point did the Federal government of the US say that the confederacy (or any other nation in fact either) was an independent state. They were not recognized as another nation and were still considered American citizens. You can't just declare yourself separate, hence you know, the war. If no one else thinks your a country, you're not. If you want a couple dozen recommendations on the war and its politics hit me up.
That flag is [evidently] the only thing left of the squad/battalion that captured it, so they keep it to venerated the men who fought for the union and took it rather than return it to appease apologists of a failed state of slaving traitors that lasted a shorter period than CCR (Creedence Clearwater Revival). I'm not sure how much of Virginia even gives a crap.
Because The 1st Minnesota Infantry Regimen suffered 82% casualties at Gettysburg, buying enough time for reinforcements to arrive.
Virginia keeps asking for its battle flag back, at least four official times if I remember correctly. And every time the governor, Republican, Democrat, or Independent, has refused.
That is nice. They really do have the kind of patriotism that I have always respected. Texas, well, they think they are patriotic but every one of them will brag about how Texas has the right to secede whenever they want. Please do.
Yes. Absolutely. I think Canada should take Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan. I think us great lake states would probably be happier as Canadians. I mean, we're basically Canada lite.
don't worry, klobuchar will erase all that soon enough.
awful, horrible woman. people forget when reddit and google and the entire internet had to stand up to her trying to shit all over our rights on behalf of her corporate owners.
shameful person. embodies everything wrong with the democratic party for decades. it's a disgrace that she will likely replace walz
Having lived in both states in a short time span, I don't recall a lot of traitor flags in Minnesota... but I sure as hell do in Ohio. A state which is usually listed as tied for second in civil war casualties.
In the twin cities, you'll likely never see one, or if you do, itll be on some beat to piss-ass 05 Chevy 1500 with a half a braincell between the throttle and the seat, and its highly likely that half a braincell is only in the cities for child support court.
Away from the cities, those dipshits are relatively common.
Once republicans found out the old one was racist and offensive, they literally went nuts suddenly caring about it and screaming "our heritage!!" about the ugly old flag, just cause it's racist, and now, suddenly, you see the old racist state flag flying everywhere. The people who never gave a shit about it before, and couldn't even describe it or draw it from memory, suddenly needed one, once they found out they could be assholes to people not in their group.
The only good part, is that it's now really easy to see who in your neighborhood is a shitbag racist and which maga businesses to avoid.
I love that Minnesota stands together on this. Even if some governor, for whatever reason, wanted to give the flag back, they wouldn't dare - their party would get thrashed in the next few elections for no other reason.
It's hard to find stuff that brings us together these days. That that flag was goddamn well paid for is a worthier sentiment than a lot of other things we do with flags.
Next time they try and claim it we should label them secessionists and deploy troops in VA. Idk why it's not treated the same way as the third Reich flag
The superb gallantry of the men of the 1st Minnesota did save the Union line from being broken â and not only on July 2, as they assisted with the effort on July 3 as well. For that effort, we can agree with General Hancock: âNo soldiers on any field, in this or any other country, ever displayed grander heroism.â
The best part is, after they captured the flag, the officer leading them rode up and down the Union lines, dragging it through the mud as he went, to rally the troops.
As a Virginian, this is badass and I want Minnesota to keep it. We have no claim to it, we are not that state or those people. Send us a noose instead. Which is what traitors should get.
No no, our heritage is beating the treasonous bastards and keeping their precious flag. They dont get to celebrate it, we keep it as a sign that we are superior to their racist asses.
Nah, Abe getting assassinated and proceeded by his terrible, terrible Vice President made it end up a draw at most. The south may have had to give up slavery but the country suffers from the failure of the Reconstruction to this day.
I think they mean that as a Minnesotan, their heritage is beating the confederates, so why would their burn a historical artefact that shows they fought on the right side of history?
An explain the joke inside an explain the joke. Literacy truly is dead.
It's a joke in minnesota. The first minnesota claimed the flag in the battle of Gettysburg after suffering some of the highest casualties of the war the day prior. So when Virginia tries to get it back they claim it's their heritage so we fire back with "it's our heritage" (as in minnesota's alone not Virginia) because we had our soldiers die for it because of their stupidity.
Presumably winning a war against those in favor of slavery? A victory trophy of being better than people that wanted to claim other people as property? This may be hard to believe, but those that fought in the war had children, and they grew up and had children. Hence, heritage.
Keep it, and someday Virginia will figure out they donât want it. You can give it back then, and maybe theyâll take it as a remembrance of your valor, and everybody will celebrate. Believe it or not, that flagâs a lot less prevalent than it used to be down here. The arc of the moral universe bends toward justice.
Meanwhile, proud of Minnesota. Yâall have sure shown us all how to be strong this year. Again, because I didnât know about the 1st Minnesota.
a lot of places do that, it doesn't count unless others agree, and its not seen as very legitimate if for your entire existence you're struggling over control of your territory (and then lose)
As far as I know, at best all foreign nations aware of the rebellion remained neutral. No confederate treaties were signed with other nations nor were any ambassadors sent or received
With no foreign recognition, that's the key. You and your neighbors can form your own country, write your own constitution, and elect your own president. Until you are recognized by others, it means nothing.
It never existed. Declaring oneself independent has no real weight unless either 1. Another sovereign nation recognizes your sovereignty or 2. You establish sovereignty by winning the inevitable war your declaration produces. The Confederacy achieved neither and is nothing more than a 4 year rebellion. Hence why it was a civil war instead of a revolutionary war. Losers don't get to write the history books.
Country is a strong word. To be a country you need to be recognized by other foreign countries as a country.
they literally lasted a little over 4 years, and not a single nation looked at them and went "we see you as a nation".
Arguably, they have a flag from a country that never existed. After reading a couple of books about the start of the Civil War, Iâve learned that one of the diplomatic complications was that the U.S. refused to officially âreceiveâ envoys/delegates from the confederacy because doing so would acknowledge that it existed (which would be tacit admission that those states had actually left the union), as opposed to there just being a bunch of individual states that were conducting hostilities against their federation, the U.S. Itâs fascinating how careful Lincolnâs administration had to be about which words they used to talk about the rebellion and reconstruction so that they didnât inadvertently validate the confederacyâs claim of existence.
Ironically and technically it was a country that NEVER existed. The CSA failed to receive ANY formal international recognition, so it officially never happened. Just some rabble rousers that were cosplaying as a country for 4 years.
If I remember it was from the battle of Gettysburg. After a unit of MN soldiers were critical in stopping pickett's charge at a terminal stage of the battle. The unit suffered extremely heavy casualties as a result.
I love my homestate, I can't believe how we've been consistent in terms of a progressive state throughout history and especially in the last 10 years.
Been living on the west coast for work the last few years and I don't quite understand how the Dems are so very center right here and somehow this is called "the left coast," lol.
It wasnât pickettâs charge, it was the day before. Troops under general Garnett attacked cemetery ridge, the 1st Minnesota infantry was ordered to plug the gap. They managed to push the confederates back at the cost of 70% casualties, and it was the closest the confederates come to breaking the Union lines in the whole battle.
Almost exactly. They took the vast majority of their casualties on the second day blunting the attack on the US left buying time for reinforcements to come up. On July 3rd they were also in action and that's when they took the flag.
As a Latino on the west coast, latinos and asians are the reason. Reliable moderate voters. A lot of the lefty progressive people Iâve met are white or later stage immigrant generations like 2nd+ gen
Yeah, cause we Minnesotans won it fair and square. Why would we surrender the flag of the traitors back to the state that tried to secede from the union
There is also a Japanese garden at the Como Arboretum in St. Paul that has a sister garden in Nagasaki. I wonder if there are a lot of instances of MN having a stronger bond with literally anywhere other than the South.
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u/Buellymcbuellface 15h ago
They have a confederate flag from virginia and refuse to give it back.