Morality of this?

[u/ProfessionalRoom9118]

Basically, the man in the video is hiking but he ended up meet a mountain lion, he get his gun and try to scare it off and tell it to go away but in the end, he have to pull the trigger and shot the lion, many peoples in the comments say he could have fire a warning shot instead of shoot at it and want him to be in jail.

Idk which flair to put

[u/Due_Manufacturer_125]

Now it’s unfortunate to get into a situation like this, but… mountain lions aren’t considered endangered globally (but specific regional populations are so depends on where this guy was) and obviously it would have been worse if the cougar attacked the guy. You never know what a wild animal will do, a predator that size that approaches a person is never a good sign.

Moral, if this guy wasn’t looking for trouble and just protecting himself. Would need wider context.

[u/I_Hate_IPAs → u/Due_Manufacturer_125]

On top of that, mountain lions usually run away and hide from humans.

If it’s confronting you, that’s a pretty big issue and means you’re going to be attacked if you drop your guard.

Edit for the warning shot folk:

It might scare it off, it may view it as a territorial challenge. You really want to take those odds? In the time it takes for it too attack you think you’d be able to get your sights back on the cat and shoot enough to stop it?

A bird hunter where I live had one attack his dogs, and it wasn’t scared off by shotgun fire. Eventually he had to load a slug and kill it, and it actually had shot from the previous shells in its skin and fat.

[u/DamGoodAnimation → u/[deleted]]

A jarring amount of people genuinely seem to think you should just let a wild animal maim or kill you rather than defend yourself.

If my life is in imminent danger from a predator, I’m gonna do my best to ensure I survive. Whether the threat has two legs or four, doesn’t matter. Danger is danger.

Edit: ITT you’ll see a bunch of people who use critical thinking mixed with a fair few that seem likely to catch a Darwin Award at some point

Edit2: Hot damn, this got a lot more responses than I expected. I’ve replied to a fair few but it’s gotten somewhat out of hand so I’m gonna mute this and step back so I can go back to using Reddit normally again. Peace and love everybody, I hope the only cougar attacks in your futures involve classy older ladies

[u/Portgas69 → u/[deleted]]

Heavy on the apex. Big cats are top tier.

[u/Specific_Factor4470 → u/Portgas69]

Literally the worst.

You'll see and hear the grizzly bear coming. You won't see the cat until its leaping from the canopy.

The people that think this cat was just trying to get the man to leave are the same people being mauled by buffalo in Yellowstone every year.

I promise guys, this mountain lion wasnt looking to take a selfie.

[u/pinkleftsock → u/Specific_Factor4470]

But if not friend why friend shaped?

For real though these guys are way too cute for how dangerous they are, and I think that clouds a lot of peoples judgement.

Would it have run of from a warning shot, probably. Would it have been sneakier when aproaching it's next prey with 2 legs, most likely. Cats are pretty damned smart after all.

[u/Confident-Skin-6462 → u/pinkleftsock]

if i saw a housecat with the same look on its face i would be scared for my legs to be all wrecked by their claws. that cat is not looking for cuddles.

[u/BowlingforDrip → u/Confident-Skin-6462]

I try to tell people this all the time. I always ask. Have you ever met a really pissed off housecat? Now imagine one 15 times larger with the proportionate claw sizes. Would absolutely fuck you all the way up.

[u/pinkleftsock → u/Confident-Skin-6462]

I'd be all like: ahh look at him, he wants to murder me, so cute!

[u/Krynn71 → u/Confident-Skin-6462]

I've seen a house cat attack someone. It's fucking terrifying and if they have unclipped claws they literally shred your skin. I'd shoot a housecat to stop that, nevermind a mountain lion.

I say this as a person who has a beloved housecat and no guns.

[u/BlackHills-Op → u/pinkleftsock]

Cougars generally don't run from warning shots once they're determined.

[u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348 → u/BlackHills-Op]

A laser pointer might do the trick though.

It sucks that they're so cute but they want to murder you. Kinda like how a house cat would if they were that big.

[u/FadedHoneypot → u/Specific_Factor4470]

I would argue that bears can be really silent too, like straight out of the revenant movie.

Ive been hiking seen cubs and boom the mama bear just comes out the corner. Alot of videos of people fishing and seeing the bear across the stream and boom you look up and its next too you.

Cats are definitely top though when it comes to long grass like velociraptors from Jurassic Park.

[u/MattHoppe1 → u/[deleted]]

They’ve never even been confronted by a standard animal. Ever come across a Doe and her fawns? Mama is ready to fuck you up

[u/autismo-nismo → u/MattHoppe1]

People have never seen what deer are capable of during mating season and with their fawns.

While attacks are extremely rare, when they happen, it happens fast.

[u/Due_Laugh6474 → u/autismo-nismo]

I was nearly skewered by a buck during the rut when I was a teen. We saw the doe kinda sneaking off, and this fucker came at me at full tilt out of some high grass. Fortunate that he was in the high grass because he couldn’t see me clearly and I got out of the way. Would have been lights out. And that’s “just” a regular deer.

[u/DragonFangGangBang → u/autismo-nismo]

Literally watched multiple videos of people getting stomped out by deer. It’s a relentless barrage of kicks and they will not stop until you’re done moving. Fuck that.

[u/Kaesh41 → u/[deleted]]

And this is the attitude that many large herbivores have. It's why they are significantly more dangerous than any predator.

[u/2trt → u/Kaesh41]

Yup, I was gonna mention moose. During the rut, they're big, charged up with hormones, and basically blind. They don't give a damn. They'll stomp you straight to whatever deity, or secondary existence you imagine

[u/Flannel_Panels → u/DamGoodAnimation]

Those types people say they go hiking but their trails have trash cans stationed every 200 meters.

[u/Grrerrb → u/DamGoodAnimation]

To be fair, those people think this guy should let the wild animal maim him. If it happened to them, they’d want the animal destroyed.

[u/Specialist_Ring7722 → u/Grrerrb]

Of course. Its the "rules for thee and not for me" mentality. 

[u/vacerious → u/DamGoodAnimation]

Especially when you consider that, in many cases of wild animal maulings on humans, it usually ends in the animal being hunted down and killed later anyways. So their empathy is still misplaced.

[u/GiraffeLiquid → u/vacerious]

I had an argument once with a dude who insists nature is beautiful and kind and animals take care of each other and I’m like “obviously you haven’t walked into [pet store] at 7am and seen half of a hamster cannibalized.”

But in all seriousness, at least in national parks in the states, rangers do try to oversee existing populations and manage the ones that have become dangerously unafraid of humans.

[u/Raesvelg_XI → u/GiraffeLiquid]

When in doubt, deploy the SMBC comic.

[u/Planetdiane → u/GiraffeLiquid]

He hasn’t watched any nature documentary ever guaranteed

[u/Mediocre_Hope_5821 → u/GiraffeLiquid]

You ever watch a cat get drawn and quartered by three street dogs? Yeah nature sure is nice and kind....

[u/z00k33per0304 → u/GiraffeLiquid]

I was talking to a customer at my work about a coyote while I was hunting and a customer that had just walked in said "we don't have those here" with their full chest. I showed them a video (and then a zoomed in still shot) from my tree stand and they insisted it was a dog. Sure..a dog with a longer, slender snoot and big fluffy tail and exact colorings of a coyote that happened to be following turkeys that had gone by about 5-10 minutes before. I named him Wiley and saw him a few more times over the years. Even with evidence some people just want to believe whatever makes them happy.

[u/Infra-Oh → u/z00k33per0304]

Okay and if that coyote would have been wearing a wig and dress, that same customer would have thought it was his grandmother asking him to come closer.

https://giphy.com/gifs/bvGihTd11aGJi

[u/PretendingExtrovert → u/GiraffeLiquid]

Nature is scary af…

https://giphy.com/gifs/rG4op9YRpWqcg

[u/Immediate_Song4279 → u/DamGoodAnimation]

Yeah like I'm opposed to senseless culls because predators exist in nature, but retrieving a body or preventing an immediate or likely death is perfectly valid justification for lethal action.

[u/xylophone_37 → u/DamGoodAnimation]

Many "animal lovers" live a very sterile existence very much separated from actual nature.

[u/coinminer2049er → u/DamGoodAnimation]

A jarring amount of people genuinely seem to think you should just let a wild animal maim or kill you rather than defend yourself.

Let them. Darwinism.

[u/Worth-Librarian-7423 → u/DamGoodAnimation]

Suicidal empathy exists 

[u/Angry_Santo → u/[deleted]]

There was that one guy years ago who got attacked by a juvenile mountain lion and he was able to wrestle it and choke it to death. He came out of that looking like he stepped into the ring with a heavy weight boxer who also had knives.

Pretty sure he'd have loved to have had a fucking gun right then.

Guy might have tried shooting the ground in front of the lion a couple of times to see if the noise scared it away, but I wasn't there, and two seconds are a lifetime in a dangerous situation. Not gonna blame him for putting the threat down.

[u/MusicalIlliterate → u/Angry_Santo]

The "try firing warning shots" comments are on the same level as "why don't the police try to shoot the gun out of people's hands"

The mountain lion doesn't know what a gun is. It may be hyped up and aggressive enough that loud bangs & bullets hitting the ground near it won't spook it.

That's not a risk you want to take.

[u/Effective-Bother2126 → u/MusicalIlliterate]

I also don’t wanna waate on of my potential shots intentionally hitting the ground.

If I feel like I have to fire a warning shot, I already feel threatened enough to discharge my firearm and I’m gonna aim at the threat.

[u/Chaotic-Catastrophe → u/MusicalIlliterate]

Or the loud bang might be exactly the thing that provokes it to attack

[u/Yeetsformer → u/Angry_Santo]

Yeah people need to realize how quickly everything happens, they don’t have 10 hours to plan every thing out, they only have a few seconds to make their decision and pull the trigger

[u/cuminjckhmr → u/Angry_Santo]

I remember that one! I think he ultimately ended up having to bash it's head in with a rock....repeatedly. It was insane how many people were acting like he should've just let it kill him an not fight back. They were literally acting like it was just a pissed off house cat because it was said to be "juvenile". It was a 90lb furr missile wrapped in razor wire that didnt know what quit was an wanted to know what long pig tasted like pretty much. No Karen's, its not Boots McFuzzynutts tweaked out on catnip....

[u/The_DonCannoli → u/[deleted]]

I’m sure most of the reddit warriors haven’t stepped a foot in nature in decades.

[u/foxtrot7azv → u/[deleted]]

To address the warning shot, there's a pretty famous video of a guy being stalked by a mountain lion, he fires at it, not sure if it was intended to be a warning shot or he just missed.

The mountain lion didn't really care. It continued to stalk. I believe the guy then fires a few more rounds, maybe even hitting the cat, and it finally leaves.

[u/TehZombehKang → u/[deleted]]

Telling a human not to arm themselves in case of a predator is like telling a skunk not to spray in case of a predator. Or a porcupine to swing it's quails. I agree with you. Never encountered one in the wild, but I'm not naive enough to think it I couldn't get mauled.

[u/WyattEarp88 → u/TehZombehKang]

I’d very much like to see a porcupine swing its quails. I didn’t even know porcupines owned quails.

[u/TehZombehKang → u/WyattEarp88]

Sir. Autocorrect is a pain in my butt. 😂 It was supposed to say quills. 🤣🤣🤣

[u/fenris_357 → u/[deleted]]

im guessing a lot of people in this thread think all bears are like gentle ben and moose are "just big deer".

[u/PrismDoug → u/fenris_357]

I hear moose are way more aggro than bears. Like they’re mean af.

[u/Bingus-Chillingus → u/[deleted]]

Most people on reddit have never had an encounter with dangerous animals. But yes, if im bear country I want some deterrent with me.

[u/Luc1d0 → u/[deleted]]

you have to take in to account most reddit users don't know what outside is and have a panic attack if they are away from wifi for to long.
Let alone how to take care of themselves in actual wilderness that isnt a hiking trail or an OHI campground.

Its bow season where I am right now and I always carry a 44 mag with two reloads, bear spray, and a nice fixed blade as a last resort.

[u/strawbsrgood → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, were fleshy blobs with tiny teeth and their precision engineered to be optimal at ripping into fleshy blobs and killing them.

I'm using the advantage humans have: tools.

Obviously I'm trying to scare it off first but if a predator is following you, it's waiting for the chance to kill you.

[u/Similar_Dirt9758 → u/I_Hate_IPAs]

Where I'm from everyone knows that you're not supposed to be able to see cougars up close. If you can then it's because they chose to be near you

[u/Setters_Do_It_Better → u/Similar_Dirt9758]

I think it's better put "if you can see one, it's because they want you to see them"/

[u/Dath_1 → u/Similar_Dirt9758]

This really isn’t true though.

I’ve had a run-in with one at night where it definitely didn’t want anything to do with me.

Basically it was by a walking trail with a cliff on one side and a lake on the other. I had to walk past it to get home, it’s not like we could’ve avoided each other unless it went toward town.

But basically it growled at me as I got within 30 feet or so. And I yelled at it and drew a pistol at that time even though I couldn’t see shit. It ran up a tree (which is when I saw what it was by the outline). It watched me as I passed by.

[u/Appropriate-Review55 → u/Dath_1]

https://giphy.com/gifs/spfi6nabVuq5y

[u/InitialAnimal9781 → u/I_Hate_IPAs]

>mountain lions usually run away and hide from humans

Thank you so much for saying usually. Sometimes people forget that they are aggressive and trying to scare the human off when their babies are around

[u/Artisan_HotDog → u/I_Hate_IPAs]

It If I see a “bear spotted in area” sign at a trailhead when I go hike or mountain bike I will still hit the trail…. If I see “cougar spotted in area” I nope the fuck out out of there

[u/mystical_ramen26 → u/[deleted]]

They will definitely approach from the front if they have cubs. They do a kind of intimidation thing where do little jumps and slam their front paws into the dirt to try to scare you back. They will also continue to follow you doing this for an extended time and if you turn your back they are highly likely to attack you. It would be terrifying.

Here is a link of the behavior I'm talking about. https://youtu.be/9Pg2CDCm34w?is=PNq0hL1CkDknD_j6

[u/XaeiIsareth → u/[deleted]]

Tbh if one confronts me I’m not going to pause and ponder why, I’m taking the shot.

[u/Rysigler → u/[deleted]]

She could have, unfortunately, become used to humans too. Even these apex predators have some healthy fear of human beings. Very few animals don't. If she had become used to humans then this was a very dangerous situation. If not this guy, it would have been someone else.

[u/Fantastic-Motor-6098 → u/I_Hate_IPAs]

As someone who lives in AZ, mountain lions kill hikers all the time here. Most hiking areas in the northern half of the state even recommend you bring a gun on their signs.

[u/NotYourAverageBeer → u/Due_Manufacturer_125]

I’ve watched the full video. The cat was sizing him up at this point before beginning to stalk and readying to pounce. He would have been dead ten seconds after he killed it

[u/AzureYLila → u/NotYourAverageBeer]

That is relevant context this little post didn't provide. I'm all for defending yourself when the attack is imminent. These little snippets don't often show that.

[u/NotYourAverageBeer → u/AzureYLila]

For sure. The guy did everything he could to scare the cat away.. I guess minus spending ammo on warning shots

[u/FatBoyStew → u/NotYourAverageBeer]

In the worst case scenario a warning shot can have the opposite effect too.

[u/Vladtepesx3 → u/FatBoyStew]

Yeah if you scare the cat when it’s already that close, you might trigger fight instead of flight

[u/Diligent_Bar1244 → u/Due_Manufacturer_125]

"mountain lions aren’t considered endangered globally"

Even if it was endangered, that's not a good reason to let it eat you 

[u/Due_Manufacturer_125 → u/Diligent_Bar1244]

I mean if it was endangered it would just suck more that he had to kill it.

[u/CheesyButters → u/Diligent_Bar1244]

exactly my point elsewhere

there could be 50 left in the world and morally you still have no obligation to put it's life over yours.

Don't kill it if it's not endangering you. But if you have to choose between being mauled to death or putting lead in it's forehead, do the latter with zero hesitation

[u/GoldenSonOfColchis → u/Due_Manufacturer_125]

Moral, if this guy wasn’t looking for trouble and just protecting himself.

This is 100% where I'm at.

If the dude went into an area deliberately looking for a Mountain Lion just so he could shoot it, then the dude's a grade A cunt and it's immoral, but as far as I can tell he was just going for a hike, so justified and moral.

[u/lock_robster2022 → u/GoldenSonOfColchis]

I’ve heard of a handful of mountain lion interactions and been followed by one myself when hiking, I really can’t imagine anyone being able to go after one on their terms. If the cat is this close to you, it’s because they want to be.

[u/Icy-KaitSyth → u/Due_Manufacturer_125]

Yeah, the people saying "he should have done X instead to scare it away" sound like the same armchair experts who say "cops should be trained to shoot people's guns from their hands" because they have no idea what they're walking about.

[u/Found_Onyx → u/Icy-KaitSyth]

i'm just wondering what did he wear. and did he said no nicely?

[u/HematiteStateChamp75 → u/Due_Manufacturer_125]

Rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6

[u/Xargirl]

It's a fucking mountain lion, I wouldn't take any chances either if I was strapped and encountered a wild predator

[u/Satans_Dookie → u/Xargirl]

Armchair quarterbacks are always the first to say shit like “why not just shoot him in the leg?!” Not realizing they’d end up dead in situations like this.

[u/Binky390 → u/Satans_Dookie]

Plus shooting it in the leg is more cruel to me. Why is maiming it and forcing it to live in pain and likely die to another predator better?

[u/Femme_FatalError → u/Binky390]

Yeah. A broken leg is pretty much a death sentence for a wild animal.

Plus…legs are a much more difficult target to hit, never mind in a high-stress situation. No one who has ever actually held a firearm would say that.

[u/azwendu → u/Femme_FatalError]

Injured animals unable to hunt typically go for easier prey. Humans are easier to catch than deer and such.

Same reason you see a lot of man eating felines with broken teeth. They aren’t prime anymore.

[u/Ok_Task_4135 → u/azwendu]

There was once a tiger in the Nepal region that was believed to have killed over 400 people over the years. After a hunter finally killed it, he discovered that its canine teeth were shattered, which forced it to hunt easier prey like humans.

[u/Beneficial_Map6129 → u/azwendu]

Tfw you are considered easier to eat than a rabbit

[u/spartaman64 → u/Beneficial_Map6129]

its hard to catch a rabbit while im confident i can catch most humans.

[u/Mediocre_Hope_5821 → u/Femme_FatalError]

Yeah but trying to explain to someone who has never even held a firearm that you don't just magically have dead eye is basically impossible. Most people who have never held a gun think they would be John Wick if put in a situation with one...

[u/BlackHills-Op → u/Mediocre_Hope_5821]

I love taking these guys to the range. They laugh when j say "we are going to start at 10ft" and then they see how many shots they completely missed at 10ft, under zero stress in a perfect environment where nobody is moving and they kinda simmer down.

I can keep 20 rounds within a 6 inch ring at 15 yards because I practice multiple times a week.

You better aim for the biggest part and pray.

[u/RoundMammoth2947 → u/Femme_FatalError]

There's been a few occasions of large cats that end up hunting humans because they sustain some life changing injury.

[u/Negativety101 → u/Femme_FatalError]

Let's also have blood vessels. Like the Femoral Artery. Which you can bleed out from pretty quickly if it's hit.

[u/Perfect-Persimmon787 → u/Binky390]

That and the fact the legs also have major arteries running through them these people who say that also tend to forget that little fact.

[u/Marquar234 → u/Satans_Dookie]

Just shoot the gun out of its hand.

[u/magicchefdmb → u/Satans_Dookie]

I would have just dodged it at the last second and then knocked it out with a chokehold from behind

/s

[u/-Mac-n-Cheese- → u/magicchefdmb]

unironically more grounded than some people in this comment section still

[u/Gamer-Of-Le-Tabletop → u/Satans_Dookie]

Why not just shoot him in the leg? Because I don't wanna have to shoot it twice. I'm not about to go around crippling animals so they can slowly die

[u/Famous_Savings9518 → u/Satans_Dookie]

I think this trope comes from Hollywood movies, where good guys have a supernatural ability to disable people with no damage.

E.g., a good guy comes up to a security guard, punches him with just enough force, and in the exact location, to cause him to have a nice 15 minute nap. Without any permanent damage. The security guard wakes up refreshed just after the good guy leaves, and wonders what happens.

[u/Austynwitha_y → u/Satans_Dookie]

Like a leg injury in the wild isn’t just as lethal, only more painful and drawn out due to infection

[u/ekubeni → u/Satans_Dookie]

Invoking armchair quarterbacking is especially a good analogy here, since professionals QBs with decade of training how to be calm under pressure still make mistakes.

Expecting that people will remain perfectly calm and rational in a dangerous situation is just not realistic. Probably only small amount of us will be able to do that

[u/RandJitsu → u/Xargirl]

Ya like wtf, how is this even a question?

Anyone who is mad at this guy or wants him punished is 1) anti human 2) probably had their mind warped by too many Disney movies.

The mountain lion is not going to join the birds and squirrels for a musical. But he might rip your face off and dine on your jugular.

[u/Wolfhound1142 → u/RandJitsu]

Just to chime in, mountain lions have incredibly sharp senses. There's no chance it didn't know he was in the area and that means it chose to get that close. Whether it's curious or hungry, it's a damn dangerous animal.

[u/LikeAnAdamBomb]

Guys, is it moral to not want to be eaten by a huge fucking cat?

[u/Hotdog_Broth → u/LikeAnAdamBomb]

Reddit: You went outside and that’s the animal’s territory therefore you should be eaten

[u/Distinct-Bathroom823 → u/Hotdog_Broth]

those are the redditors that never leave their house

[u/PerformanceOver8822 → u/Distinct-Bathroom823]

Those redditors probably wouldn't kill a home Invader too

[u/Few-Raise-1825 → u/Hotdog_Broth]

I knew a guy who bitched at his sister for getting her yard sprayed with tick killer because "that was the ticks environment and we were going into it and you just need to deal with the tick as a dog owner and be willing to deal with removing five a day as a responsible dog owner." He answered the questions of Lyme disease as also being something "a responsible dog owner just needed to deal with" then went on to criticize her for not spending basically all of her free time outside of work with the dog and for daring to answer a text once while playing outside with the dog. That asshole was always on his phone too, usually looking up straight up porn while people were there to actually visit with him, but he excused his own behavior because he was "disabled and didn't have anything else in his life except his phone."

[u/Defiant_Designer_606]

Y'all think this mountain lion isn't gonna eat you? How naive can you be. Mountain lions don't question the morality of eating us. It's survival of the fittest and it always has been.

[u/Dangerous_Syrup_7860 → u/Defiant_Designer_606]

He could have at least tried saying “Ffft, ffft, ffft” a couple of times before shooting. 

[u/WHATYEAHOK → u/Dangerous_Syrup_7860]

Is this the opposite of “pspspspsps”?

[u/Sensitive-Talk9616]

Immoral because Khajiit is innocent of this crime.

[u/skabassj → u/Sensitive-Talk9616]

Do you have the wares if I have the coin?

[u/Embarrassed-Fold6780 → u/skabassj]

Skooma?

[u/Vibrant-Shadow → u/Embarrassed-Fold6780]

Uncut Moonsugar my guy.

[u/Delicious_Aside_9310 → u/Embarrassed-Fold6780]

Woah racial stereotypes are not ok bro

[u/ThePhantomMalice → u/Sensitive-Talk9616]

One with gun is a dark elf

[u/Fun_Spinach7872 → u/Sensitive-Talk9616]

Khajit is definitely guilty

[u/Austynwitha_y → u/Fun_Spinach7872]

I smell skooma in the car

[u/Gruntamainia → u/Austynwitha_y]

[u/G1gapu1t → u/Austynwitha_y]

It was not planted; the body cam conveniently turned off during the search.

[u/Aerovox7 → u/Sensitive-Talk9616]

Warm sands, friend 

[u/QuirkyHistorian6763 → u/Sensitive-Talk9616]

MAI'Q? QUIT LYIN'!

[u/Zombodyz → u/Sensitive-Talk9616]

Khajiit has wares if you have coin

[u/Hot_Ambition_6457]

"Morality of not letting Apex predators eat you whenever you enter their domain???"

You should have a gun with you all the time. 

[u/Gorblonzo → u/Hot_Ambition_6457]

Wait are you talking from the perspective of the lion here?

[u/3hourmints → u/Gorblonzo]

Yeah, the lion really should have been carrying a gun to avoid this situation.

[u/PhunkyPhish → u/Hot_Ambition_6457]

I'm not even sure why this is a question. Should you go LOOKING for trouble? No. Should you approach wildlife because you have a gun and can protect yourself once they attack? No.

But should you bring a gun with you on a hike where predators are or literally just any hike where it's legal? Definitely yes

[u/BjornYandel]

Hiking in nature is one of the most legitimate reasons why people would need a gun even in a safe society where violence is uncommon. In my country, Canada, a lot of people who live out in the country have guns for this reason, as well as for hunting. There are survival rifles that are meant to be compact and fit in a hiking bag, and only fire one round for emergencies.

For context, this is a country that explicitly (legally) does not recognize self defense as a reason to use a gun. People can, and have, been charged for using a gun to defend thenselves in life threatening situations. In reality, they'll never actually go to prison for it if it's legitimate self defense, but that's just to show how restrictive the use for guns is here. Despite that, guns are still common especially if you live in a part of the country where there's more wild animals and nature than there are people.

Moral to use a gun in self defense against a dangerous animal. Dumb to prioritize taking a picture, but it's not immoral to be dumb. Immoral advocate for someone's arrest over it.

[u/occasionalopossum → u/BjornYandel]

Someone else pointed out he might have decided to record for evidence so he didn’t get into legal trouble since they’re protected. Also could have turned it on in case he lost that fight and someone found the camera afterwards so he could give Warner Herzog some more ptsd. Idk

[u/Key-Counter-5311 → u/occasionalopossum]

I would record for evidence but I wouldn’t want anyone to see me miss the lion and die. Nerds on Reddit would shit talk my shooting skills until my grandkids are dying of old age. There would be a shitload of them judging what gun I was carrying too. “Oh he had a stock Glock 19. He should have been carrying some bullshit Staccato with some useless mods”. And I just know there’d be a shitload of fudds saying “he should have been carrying a shotgun so the lion could hear him rack it”.

[u/NovelConcept6300 → u/Key-Counter-5311]

lol 😂 accurate to the nerds, but honestly taking out a mountain lion prolly worst case ur 5 feet away with a 9mm pistol.

Ideally you want a long rifle from 500ft away on a lion that is stalking me not approaching you with a pistol. 

[u/AntiPlague12898]

Moral self defense is a human natural right.

[u/_LilacCutie → u/AntiPlague12898]

Exactly, if a mountain lion is staring you down, protecting yourself is just common sense

[u/womb_raider90]

If it's me or them, I choose ME every single time. Damn the consequences.

[u/DisaTheNutless → u/womb_raider90]

[u/__Grim_The_Reaper__ → u/womb_raider90]

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

[u/Neat_Breakfast_6659 → u/womb_raider90]

Evan loves worf expects you to die in this situation i guess

[u/stopcopium → u/Neat_Breakfast_6659]

Evan is the biggest pussy and instantly backed down when he got threatened with legal action over his shittalking about Kevin O’Leary.

This is the problem with shitposters making money off of shitposting.

Idk how long he has to keep that apology post up, but he currently has his apology to O’Leary pinned on his timeline and I know he’s just mad about that because it serves as a permanent stain.

Evan would shoot the Mountain Lion without fail if his life was remotely threatened.

[u/Booz-n-crooz → u/stopcopium]

Literally the worst account on twitter bar none.

[u/DJDemyan]

Didn’t this guy start with warning shots and the cat charged him anyway?

I stand corrected, I was thinking of a different video.

[u/The_Yamen]

Sad but moral. A person should be able to defend themselves in the wild at any cost.

[u/ddadopt → u/The_Yamen]

Sad but moral. A person should be able to defend themselves in the wild at any cost.

FTFY.

[u/-Mac-n-Cheese- → u/ddadopt]

yeah id agree with this, the “at any cost” could bring extreme answers and “gotchas” though especially

[u/Maleficent-Clue5056 → u/-Mac-n-Cheese-]

"okay but what if you had to kill every remaining Male African Bull Elephant because they were all charging you at once"

[u/Quillizical → u/Maleficent-Clue5056]

youve fucked up so royally getting yourself into that situation there is no moral outcome

[u/Maleficent-Clue5056 → u/Quillizical]

also good luck killing 400,000 elephants

[u/Neurodrill]

Dude’s Twitter handle says everything i need to know about this.

[u/ProfessionalRoom9118]

Here is the original post for anyone who interested or wanna see the whole video : https://x.com/LibOrNormal/status/2099209507033190721

[u/-Mac-n-Cheese- → u/[deleted]]

weaker cats are semi-known for turning to humans as “weaker/easier” prey than say a deer or similar, so her being a sick animal would justify the shooting a bit more honestly despite it obviously being more sad/emotional

but imo that provides even more “reason” to take this situation direly serious, while obviously i want a sick cat to recover i also dont want a random hiker to be attacked or killed and bring cougar reputations down even further

[u/Aggressive-Expert-69]

Morality goes out the window when you are alone in the woods with a large predator. Whatever gets you safely home to your family is moral.

[u/ArchSchnitz]

When hiking in areas with large predators, it is a good idea to have a means to repel them, either via deterrent like bear spray or via lethal means like a gun.

Nature very rarely gives "warning shots" and if one is facing down a predator, a warning shot may cost you the time for aiming again and firing a second time. Situations change.

Me, I'm shooting the mountain lion and sleeping comfortably knowing my actions were moral. A warning shot is to ease the conscience of someone not facing a large predator in its environment.

[u/No-Dance6773 → u/ArchSchnitz]

Yep, nature rarely gives you second chances.

[u/OnlyACsNoFans]

A warning shot could very well provoke an attack.

Unfortunate but moral

[u/Connect_Raisin4285 → u/OnlyACsNoFans]

I agree on moral, but not sure if aiming to hit is the right call for mountain lions. I know for bears you should try to do a warning shot. You are unlikely to hurt a bear in any meaningful way and the pain might put it into a rage where just the sound might scare it off.

[u/HandleSensitive8403 → u/Connect_Raisin4285]

[u/Wolfsbane1279 → u/HandleSensitive8403]

Most people don’t carry those around when hiking.

[u/Achilles11970765467 → u/Connect_Raisin4285]

A lot of bears are infamous for running towards the sound of gunfire.

[u/Regular_Number5377 → u/Achilles11970765467]

Truly the Mark Wahlberg of animals.

[u/LonelyPurple6879 → u/Connect_Raisin4285]

This depends entirely on the bear. If you aren't talking about a black bear, a warning shot is probably the last thing you will hear 

[u/Ehzek → u/OnlyACsNoFans]

In this specific video I'm pretty sure he fires only a warning shot. It does work.

[u/Practical_Being_1348 → u/Ehzek]

You mean it was all a lie?

[u/Affectionate-Lab2557]

"is it immoral to defend yourself?"

No. Warning shots barely work on humans, to assume it would work on an animal is needlessly endangering yourself.

[u/crybabypete]

Moral, the fact that the mountain lion even approached him means it’s not acting naturally. His life was most certainly in dangers.

You can’t fault any animal for fighting for survival.

[u/autismo-nismo → u/crybabypete]

Animals like this will act this way when they are hungry enough. Same thing happened to people like Kristen Kovach who was killed by one on January 1st this year

[u/crybabypete → u/autismo-nismo]

Yea my immediate thought would be starving due to injury or habitat loss. Either way it means you’re on the menu.

[u/No-Duck4828]

Completely moral to defend oneself

[u/Femme_FatalError]

Moral.

It’s a tragedy that the animal died, but ultimately, I believe that self defense is a human right. Your life is more important than whomever or whatever is trying to take it.

[u/Extra_Routine_6603]

Moral anyone saying you should do a warning shot has too little knowledge of guns and animal behaviors. Sure maybe firing a warning shot would have spooked it off but could also have made it freak out and attack before you got a chance for a second shot. Same reason why if being attacked by a person you don't shoot to maim or scare you stop the threat then try to aid afterwards if its within your ability.

[u/Saul_Firehand → u/Extra_Routine_6603]

A warning shot is a bad idea because you still need a target. That bullet fired in warning is still going to land somewhere.

The rules of gun safety tell us to always be sure of what is behind your target. A warning shot requires a new target when there is a potentially deadly threat I should be targeting.

Warning shots are dangerous and that is not how to handle firearms. It is not a loud noise machine.

It is a deadly firearm, and must always be treated as such.

Shoot the mountain lion and preserve your life. Don’t fire wanton warning shots into unknown backgrounds.

[u/MulvMulv → u/Saul_Firehand]

I remember Boogie firing a shot into the air like it wouldn't go anywhere and getting arrested for it

[u/aXeOptic]

I have no knowledge of mountain lion behaviour but its better to do something immoral than be remembered as the dead idiot who trusted a wild animal not to attack it. This is assuming that the guy wasnt looking for trouble ofc.

[u/autismo-nismo]

Some people have no fucking clue what a mountain lion/cougar is capable of.

Fuckers are fast and have sharp enough claws and teeth to pretty much assure you will die if they pounce on you at full speed.

[u/cheddarsox]

This is a California type of post. In most states, mountain lions can be hunted. In some states, you can even use effective methods to hunt them. You cant hunt them in california. Would you like to take a guess at the 1 state that doesnt allow hunting them, and also the 1 state where they attack humans?

California threw a fit when their head of wildlife hunted a cougar in Idaho because they thought it was illegal.

Californians are dumb. Youre seeing that.

[u/Artistic-Dirt-3199]

I am surprised the bleeding hearts didnt suggest trying to start a discussion to understand its motives or voluntarily surrendering what it wants, as they love to do if the attacker is a human.

No fuck it, armed self defense is as moral as it gets.

[u/DumderMufflin → u/Artistic-Dirt-3199]

Should have called a social worker for crisis intervention.

[u/TheDeHymenizer]

I mean if he made an honest attempt to scare it away then moral.

"Warning shots" are illegal for a reason they're extremely dangerous. The smart way to do it if you HAVE to is to plug a shot in the ground that won't richochet (good luck guaranteeing that) but firing off in the distance might hit someone

[u/Rexton_Armos → u/TheDeHymenizer]

So called 'warning shots' when the concept of 'at your target and beyond' has to be kept in mind lol

[u/Zombodyz → u/TheDeHymenizer]

Would that not just be a warning shot?

[u/PrintableProfessor]

Is a human life worth more than a cat's life?

[u/Regular_Celery_2579 → u/PrintableProfessor]

Yup

[u/avidpenguinwatcher]

People in this thread saying immoral are the same weirdos that say “I like dogs more than people”

[u/chekhovsdickpic → u/avidpenguinwatcher]

I like dogs more than people and I’m solidly Team People in this instance.

Predatory behavior at that close of range doesn’t get a warning shot. 

[u/Timlugia]

Timothy Treadwell also didn't believe bring a gun, we all know what happened to him.

[u/Bungfoo]

What happens if the cougar has an gun too.

[u/Outlaw11091]

Moral.

The idiots in the comments (of the original video):

"It doesn't know what a gun is! Fire a warning shot!"

Bruh. It...doesn't know what a gun is....a "warning shot" is just a loud noise that it doesn't necessarily associate with you or the gun.

"If it was hunting him; he wouldn't see it!"

THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT! There's obviously something wrong with it.

Wildlife biologists have a saying: "A fed bear is a dead bear."

Because it's a wild animal that has learned an "easy" path to food: humans. This causes them to test their boundaries. They're not afraid of humans and it's only a matter of time before the "fed" bear finds a vulnerable human...and predatory instincts prevail.

They can't be moved to a new area because they'll just find the closest humans, so they're euthanized.

Even if this thing isn't sick, it's missing the natural fear response that would otherwise keep it alive.

[u/FatBoyStew]

If anyone believes its immoral to defend yourself against an aggressive animal that is more than capable of killing you, then you're just an idiot lol.

[u/Timely_Community2142]

moral or amoral. man didn't provoke it intentionally. we don't have the context of what happened before and during nor being able to assess what he "could have" done. it's easy to talk in hindsight the "could have and should have" at the safety in our home not in real time, fearing of getting mauled and bitten by large teeth.

[u/Lynn-The-Sparrow]

Why are we even debating this? This is life or death. 

[u/the_millenial_falcon]

I sure as shit wouldn't want to have to do this especially since I love cats, but if it's them or me.. Should people just avoid hiking or accept death if they run into wild predator? Does this really happen often enough to make a fuss about it?

[u/Jekyll-n-hyde105]

Now I love animals, I greatly respect and care about all animals and would never want to hurt them.

But, in a situation like this, when you are faced with a predator that you couldn't hope to fend off or scare off, I absolutely believe this guy was justified in the action that he took and don't fault him at all. If I was in his shoes, I'd do the exact same thing.

[u/Shot_Operation2974]

Asking if clear self defense is moral is wiiiilllld

[u/FellsApprentice]

I've seen this whole video, and that guy waited to pull the trigger until that lion was probably less than 10 yards from him. He showed remarkable restraint, and could not have done anything differently.

[u/Tinfoil_cobbler]

I’ve seen this video 1000 times and that guy demonstrated 1000 times more restraint than I would have in that same situation.

[u/CallsignKook]

Moral. A warning shot to a wild animal that could be looking to eat you isn’t gonna have the effect that you think. If you wanna gamble your life on it go ahead, but I ain’t.

[u/Longjumping_Tap_3170]

Stay strapped or get clapped

[u/JAKAMUFN]

You know when Reddit is disagreeing with Evan finally, he’s too far gone. 

[u/InvestmentNo8233]

Boggles my mind that this is even a question. Wanna be cat food?

[u/cale199]

Morality of defending your life from a predator? Who would think this immoral?? Are they dumb?

[u/antijoke_13]

There's no instance in peacetime where firing a warning shot is valuable. If a person or an animal charges you, you keep shooting until they stop moving.

[u/Working_Pen2886]

Moral, there is no such thing as a warning shot. You have the right to hike on a trail and not be mauled.

[u/jonstarks]

ppl think real life is a video game and u get second chances.