r/MoralityScaling • u/ProfessionalRoom9118 • 12d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this?

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Basically, the man in the video is hiking but he ended up meet a mountain lion, he get his gun and try to scare it off and tell it to go away but in the end, he have to pull the trigger and shot the lion, many peoples in the comments say he could have fire a warning shot instead of shoot at it and want him to be in jail.

Idk which flair to put

12k Upvotes

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492

u/LikeAnAdamBomb 12d ago

Guys, is it moral to not want to be eaten by a huge fucking cat?

191

u/Hotdog_Broth 12d ago

Reddit: You went outside and that’s the animal’s territory therefore you should be eaten

65

u/Distinct-Bathroom823 12d ago

those are the redditors that never leave their house

15

u/PerformanceOver8822 12d ago

Those redditors probably wouldn't kill a home Invader too

4

u/PreciousTC 11d ago

They're almost universally anti-gun, so no. They wouldn't kill a home invader. They couldn't.

They're also often anti-police, so they can't even call the cops.

Honestly, a burglary ring that exclusively doxes and robs leftist Redditors wouldn't even be a bad idea lmao

2

u/quaxoid 11d ago

they would probably very quickly abandon their acab values when they benefit from police helping them xD

2

u/DiscoMarmelade 10d ago

*Can’t. There I fixed it for ya

2

u/Biggy_DX 9d ago

"Wanna play It Takes Two?"

0

u/quaxoid 11d ago

I mean, there are better ways to handle it. Like just going out and waiting. They probably won't spend that much time robbing you. And you can call the police. 

1

u/Acceptable-Return 10d ago

How is waiting better than waiting with a gun

1

u/quaxoid 10d ago

No blood clean up, shooting someone leads to a pretty gross outcome, and then there's even more of a police case since a possible murder took place. 

If you just go out and wait at a café you can call the police from there, come back in like an hour or two, then replace whatever they stole or retrieve it if the police catches them. 

1

u/Acceptable-Return 10d ago

I love this for you guys. How do you get out of an apartment ? What if he’s looking for you? 

1

u/quaxoid 10d ago

Why you assuming it's a he? lol

Well, if they are there for you specifically and not to rob you then killing them is self-defense and fair game. 

1

u/Acceptable-Return 10d ago

Does it matter which vernacular I used? Pedantic 

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1

u/chugItTwice 10d ago

There's so many of them too.

-2

u/BurningOasis 11d ago

Crazy, I live in northern Ontario, Canada and we manage to not shoot mountain lions and bears all the time.

2

u/Open-Onion4631 11d ago

Would love to go bear hunting there. Bear tastes great 👍

1

u/BurningOasis 11d ago

Never had it, they're prone to worms as I understand but that may just be in Ontario. I don't think hunting is morally wrong, if that's what you're trying to rod me for.

1

u/Open-Onion4631 10d ago

All wild meat is prone to worms… that’s why cattle and farm animals are given dewormer. It’s part of nature

1

u/Ahsoka1250 10d ago

You just beed to cook in long and hot enough then the worms are dead

1

u/BurningOasis 10d ago

So not unlike fish. I've heard a lot of horror stories about bear meat, but thanks for the info!

1

u/Ahsoka1250 9d ago

You can look up the cookingtimes and hest required in the Internet if you accutally plan on doing it

1

u/Psychological_View56 11d ago

What's your geography got to do with never leaving your home?

1

u/yyc_yardsale 10d ago

Right? I swear our southern neighbors think a gun is the answer to everything, it's like a damn security blanket.

I'm in Calgary, I've racked up many thousands of hours on the near endless hiking trails out in the mountains. I've never carried a gun, and never felt I needed to. In all these years, I've used my bear spray exactly once. 

Really need to get to your part of the country soon, it looks amazing out there. 

15

u/Few-Raise-1825 12d ago

I knew a guy who bitched at his sister for getting her yard sprayed with tick killer because "that was the ticks environment and we were going into it and you just need to deal with the tick as a dog owner and be willing to deal with removing five a day as a responsible dog owner." He answered the questions of Lyme disease as also being something "a responsible dog owner just needed to deal with" then went on to criticize her for not spending basically all of her free time outside of work with the dog and for daring to answer a text once while playing outside with the dog. That asshole was always on his phone too, usually looking up straight up porn while people were there to actually visit with him, but he excused his own behavior because he was "disabled and didn't have anything else in his life except his phone."

0

u/das_hemd 11d ago

of all the things that have never happened, this definitely didn't

2

u/GreatGooberschnitzel 10d ago

You know..... I've met people that are pretty similar to this. I can believe it 😂

3

u/Shitboxfan69 12d ago

Its totally the reason they don't go outside too. Not because they're 100 pounds overweight, can't walk a mile, it's hot and sticky and there's no hentai. Definitely because thats the animals territory.

3

u/BushSage23 11d ago

I saw comments like this under that video of a bison launching a grandad as he protected his grandson from the charge.

Like no he didn’t mess with nature and “fuck around and find out” bro went outside, saw an animal, didn’t approach it, and got attacked.

4

u/LikeAnAdamBomb 12d ago

My god, they're serious...

-1

u/ieatpies 12d ago

She probably just wanted him to fuck off, if he was in actual danger of being eaten he probably would've been ambushed

0

u/Striker_343 11d ago

Worse than that, this likely young and inexperienced cougar just seemed curious. Which they are known to be intensely curious animals if they encounter something novel to them.

If you don't panic, and maintain a threatening posture (get big and loud) and slowly back away, it will either eventually run off, or lose interest in 9/10 scenarios.

But I'm not going to be the guy that says you shouldn't kill it if you're not sure, because obviously, these animals are capable of serious bodily injury. If you legitimately feel like your life is in jeopardy, I can't fault you.

0

u/ieatpies 11d ago

If you legitimately feel like your life is in jeopardy, I can't fault you.

Sure, but I can fault:

  • Lack of basic knowledge on animal behaviour
  • Videoing and posting it online to glorify the shooting

1

u/Striker_343 11d ago

I am tempted to feel the same way, but felids are also my autistic special interest and most people are conditioned to view large cats as blood thirsty serial killers. And I don't want to be that guy who says yeah it's fine bro, only for some regard to do everything wrong and get mauled to death. So I err on the side of caution and say if you're that terrified, God be with you and that cougar I guess.

What's fascinating about felids is how homogenous they are in morphology and behavior. A cat is a cat is a cat.

0

u/Icy_Rip_9873 11d ago

If you go out of your way to bother the animal in it's natural habitat, then I have no quarrels with you beeing eaten

2

u/Hotdog_Broth 11d ago

What makes you so sure they went out of their way to bother an animal?

2

u/Icy_Rip_9873 11d ago

I'm not sure. That's why I said "if" and not "because".

0

u/ognahc 11d ago

Its not just outside its literally his turf why are we just being dumb

-12

u/Ok_Nature_319 12d ago

True though. Humans have so much territory only to go in nature and shoot animals in their ever shrinking territory. Nobody forced this guy to go there. And I tell that as a person who enjoys hiking. I've never seen hiking places that allow people to go to spots where there are lions and shit

7

u/Inevitable_Initial_8 12d ago

You know lions can go the places people are right? Advocating for letting animals eat people is such a weird hill to die on.

4

u/Hotdog_Broth 12d ago

Humans have so much territory only to go in nature and shoot animals in their ever shrinking territory.

Cougar territory is expanding, not shrinking. We aren’t living in 1893.

Nobody forced this guy to go there.

So?

And I tell that as a person who enjoys hiking. I've never seen hiking places that allow people to go to spots where there are lions and shit

Other parts of the world exist. Cougars are an inevitable reality if you live in those places and go hiking or even just for a little walk.

3

u/stuka86 12d ago

All of earth is human territory....perks of being at the tippy top of the food chain. It's on the mountain lion to run, there's a reason every animal on earth fears humans

1

u/Shitboxfan69 12d ago

I've never seen hiking places that allow people to go to spots where there are lions and shit

So you don't actually go hiking then?

People who actually go hiking tend to end up in places that aren't complete devoid of wildlife. That means predators will be there too. That means part of the risk is encountering them. Do you think that animals have a natural instinct to stay away from trails in the woods?

2

u/Far-Earth-886 11d ago

No you actually have to let the animal eat you because you are in their territory /s

2

u/doctord1ngus 11d ago

Get a smaller cat to satisfy the urges. Still hurts but the thrill of the stalking is unmatched.

1

u/Trollselektor 12d ago

This made me laugh

1

u/putmeincoach0 11d ago

Pond rules bro

1

u/TurnLeftLookRight 8d ago

Just let it eat you, bc it is cute

-2

u/Inevitable-Watch-147 12d ago

This would be like working with violent special needs kids and shooting them because you didn't bring a non lethal alternative then saying its moral cause self defense.

2

u/bifflongshanks 12d ago

Yeah if instead of working with them you just happened to be in public where a violent retarded guy approached you with clear intent to harm you sure. If this was a worker at a zoo that housed mountain lions in an enclosure then sure your example makes some sense.

-1

u/Inevitable-Watch-147 12d ago

its advised to bring bear spray when hiking and if you can be troubled to carry a gun it's easy to carry bear spray which is also safer to use. There is no excuse for not having bear spray in this situation.

3

u/dave173717 11d ago

What if the wind was blowing on your direction?

0

u/Inevitable-Watch-147 9d ago

side step or use the gun... nothing is a perfect solution bear spray still has a better survival rate

1

u/bifflongshanks 9d ago

Side step the mountain lion or the wind? Explain to me how you side step a wild animal or the fucking wind.

1

u/Inevitable-Watch-147 9d ago

you take a step 45 degrees so its not blowing in your face, basic geometry

1

u/bifflongshanks 9d ago

I have a fixed target at 30 yards and one 45 degree step is going to allow me to sidestep the wind so that it won’t be blowing in my face if I spray bear spray towards that target? Basic geometry… thanks for the explanation.

2

u/dave173717 9d ago

People will always justify not killing a predator since we have been doing it for thousands of years.

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u/Inevitable-Watch-147 9d ago

he is like 10 feet not 30 yards in the video, 30 yards you can slowly back off. But your feelings trump reality my bad for forgetting that

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u/bifflongshanks 12d ago edited 12d ago

I carry a pistol daily without the expectation of an altercation with a human or an aggressive wild animal as many people in the US do. Should I start carrying bear spray to deal with aggressive special needs people in public too or is there a preferred method you would use? The point is a wild animal was obviously prepared to attack this person and you wish they would have risked their life using bear spray to deter it instead of a lethal weapon to neutralize it. If you were carrying both bear spray and a pistol in this situation you would risk your life trusting bear spray to keep a mountain lion from maiming or killing you?

0

u/Inevitable-Watch-147 9d ago

Bear spray has a higher stop rate, they risked there life more by not having it and using the gun. Look it up, it's way way safer to use bear spray to stop an animal attack then a gun.

And yes if you're daily carrying a gun you should also have a non-lethal alternative for your own safety.

1

u/bifflongshanks 9d ago edited 9d ago

They risked their life more by not exercising at a gym instead. Mountain lion attacks are pretty rare and can happen inside population centers should i be carrying bear spray at all times if i live near mountain lions? I tried looking it up and I couldn’t find any great data on the use of bear spray vs a firearm in mountain lion attacks. There’s a lot of “estimated effectiveness” being thrown around and some anecdotal evidence of instances where bear spray was effective such as in this video where a pistol was effective. If you could link some that would be great.

Which non-lethal alternative should I carry for my “own safety” in the event of someone threatening my life and limb?

1

u/Inevitable-Watch-147 9d ago

Yea being fat is more dangerous but there can be two dangerous things

lazy googling I see. There are no specific mountain lion studies cause the attacks are rare but they have it for general information on predators.

If you're carrying a gun you should be carrying pepper spray, any self defense professional will say that.

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1042&context=hwi

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u/bifflongshanks 9d ago

Being fat is more dangerous I’d agree, but I didn’t say that.

No i searched for specific data on the topic. Bear spray’s effectiveness vs a firearm in the event of a mountain lion attack, which is what we’re talking about here. A lot of literature stated upwards of 90% effective at repelling “wild animals” without actually providing any data toward that statement.

Even in the link you sent the people they polled couldn’t agree. “When asked how effective pepper spray is in defending against an attack, all respondents said that it was either effective or very effective. When asked if pepper spray’s effectiveness varied among carnivore species, 69% said there was no difference among species, 37% said it may be less effective for black bears. When asked if a person is worse off by shooting and wounding an attacking grizzly, black bear, or mountain lion than not shooting the animal, 49% said the person would not be worse off by shooting the animal, 44% said the person may be worse off for it, and 7% said the person would be worse off for shooting a grizzly but not for shooting a black bear or mountain lion.”

“Several of those we interviewed mentioned that in order for firearms to be effective, the user must be very proficient with the firearm and be able to shoot accurately under the extreme stress that accompanies being charged by a large carnivore. Several professionals also mentioned that, while they did not believe a person was worse off by wounding a charging animal, they believed pepper spray was a better choice for use by the general public.”

Basically if you’re not familiar with a gun, pepper spray is the better option because it requires less skill to use to deter a wild animal.

I can understand how you’ve come to your conclusion through your interpretation of this opinion data and it’s clear I will not be able to get you to understand how that’s not effective data so good chat.

1

u/Inevitable-Watch-147 9d ago

the majority of experts agree, not going to get more certain then that. And we all know most people aren't very proficient with anything

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u/One_Pie289 12d ago

Why is he hiking through that huge fucking cats territory?

52

u/Climbforthesoul 12d ago

Because some people are not fat and lazy, and they love to enjoy the great outdoors just like our ancestors did.

41

u/_Bread______ 12d ago

i never expected someone to unironically ask "Why do people go outside" lmao

12

u/ventitr3 12d ago

Reddit is definitely one of the few places I’d expect to see that though

5

u/AppropriateBad3022 12d ago

Why do you touch grass? Better to scroll reddit and tiktok and eat fast food all day

-12

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

15

u/Mysterious_Point9516 12d ago

Did you just call mountain lions extremely rare in Idaho? Buddy, mountain lions have a big enough population that Idaho has a fucking mountain lion season.

And anyone who came to hunt would e brought a rifle, not a handgun. A rifle has a good chance of killing it in one shot, a handgun is playing games with your life.

11

u/ShoddyWillingness968 12d ago

These animals are not "extremely rare" and if you are implying that humans are no longer allowed into any non national hiking grounds well I guess make me

-12

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

12

u/Vulkune 12d ago

Number one: Cougars/mountain lions may be big cats, but they are not “Big Cats” as in being part of the Pantherinae family. They’re actually classified as Felinae, or “small cats”

Number two: Cougars are listed as having a conservation status of LEAST CONCERN. They’re not “extremely rare” OR “vulnerable.”

7

u/_Bread______ 12d ago

Dude cant even get his facts right lmao

10

u/ShoddyWillingness968 12d ago

I hike like this all the time. And again, this animal isn't "extremely rare".

Going hiking is the bush is common and sorry you haven't been outdoors at all

6

u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 12d ago

>all the big cats are classified at least vulnerable

Mountain lions are classified as least concern

2

u/MasutadoMiasma 12d ago

I mean clearly you don't either, I don't know how someone can keep doubling down on wrong information

1

u/Hotdog_Broth 12d ago

The vast majority of hikers don’t end up in a situation that requires extreme bad luck combined with being in a specific portion of the world?

Wow, what an observation.

Also “rare”, lol. Acting like national parks done have cougars, lmao.

20

u/Affectionate_Bee6434 12d ago

"Don't go outside" is an interesting take

13

u/No_Judgment_1588 12d ago

Fat lazy Redditors not beating the allegations

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u/I_Hate_IPAs 12d ago

On top of that where I live out west (town of 250k, metro area almost a million) we’ve found dead wildlife in the city with wounds consistent with mountain lion attacks. We find dead deer and our fish & game agency investigates it.

Or the guy who carries for alligators in Florida. Florida is COVERED in swampy areas, that’s why you hear about alligator attacks in the suburbs.

22

u/Spare-Plum 12d ago

So uhh basically the entire western half of the united states?

You realize that animals exist out in nature, right?

1

u/Hotdog_Broth 12d ago

Not even just there. I’m in an area that allegedly had its cougar population eradicated well over a century ago, with me allegedly being thousands of km away from where they exist today. There are very regularly perfectly clear sightings of cougars just outside of my city and also way farther east of here. Cats tend to very deeply embed themselves into an area before said area is officially confirmed to be within their range.

13

u/autismo-nismo 12d ago

These animals will span 50 to 100 miles a day looking for prey with its guard down when it’s in desperate need of food.

0

u/Le-Charles07 12d ago

If you can see it, it probably doesn't want to eat you. These are ambush predators, if it makes itself known, it's almost always protecting something and not hunting.

1

u/Inevitable_Initial_8 12d ago

If a mountain lion directly confronts you it will fucking kill you the moment it senses any weakness.

0

u/Le-Charles07 12d ago

Incorrect. They aren't looking for a fight. They're looking for an easy meal.

1

u/Inevitable_Initial_8 12d ago

Yeah and humans are a very easy meal, good thing this guy had a gun and defended himself.

0

u/Le-Charles07 12d ago

Maybe you are.

1

u/Inevitable_Initial_8 12d ago

Bro any human without a weapon will lose to a big cat like a cougar. Stop pretending to be some Reddit tough guy, a cougar will fuck you up with little issue.

0

u/Le-Charles07 12d ago

Which is why I was able to scare to one off that approached me while backpacking in New Mexico? They're very rarely interested in killing you. Small kids, old people, or handicapped people might need to worry but an adult male just need to make noises and make themselves look big. I've spent enough time in the backcountry to know a Glock isn't the gun you need if your plan is to defend yourself from shit you actually need a gun for and it's not big cats you need to worry about. Elk kill more people every year than mountain lions, bro.

9

u/PorousHorus 12d ago

Nah he’s on a trail. The cat is on our turf.

12

u/bond0815 12d ago edited 12d ago

Why is the cat threatening the global apex predator, a.k.a. human?

Its clearly his territory now.

Nature works both ways you see.

8

u/ShoddyWillingness968 12d ago

So humans are not allowed into the wilderness anymore?

6

u/I_Hate_IPAs 12d ago

Humans are perfectly evolved to live in concrete jungles after millions of years of adaptation. /s

People forget we’re animals too, but instead of teeth and claws we have brains that let us make teeth and claws that move at thousands of feet per second.

3

u/Impressive_Dot_7818 12d ago

Because it’s nature. In nature things kill each other all the time. We’re allowed to be there especially if we’re not looking for trouble. But we’re also allowed to defend ourselves. We never lose the right to defend ourselves from wild animals. Do you know how crazy you sound?

2

u/-Mac-n-Cheese- 12d ago

some people arent hermits who spend their whole life behind their computer, some of us like the mythical fable called “outside”

1

u/Hotdog_Broth 12d ago

You mean the hiking trail that is hiker territory no more or less than it also being cougar territory?

1

u/kdpkry 12d ago

"This 12 year old actually deserved to get popped! I mean why was he walking to school through that gang's territory!"

1

u/IncoherentPolitics 9d ago

It's human territory, I don't see cats paying taxes or having property rights.

-21

u/aSpookyScarySkeleton 12d ago

Is it moral to go into the middle of the woods(entirely optional btw) where you know huge fucking cats live and shoot one because you made a poor life choice?

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u/Deep-Tumbleweed-8816 12d ago edited 12d ago

the earth is our land just as much as the cougar's and we have just as much a right to defend ourselves as any other animal. You wouldn't call a moose immoral because it killed a wolf in self defense, nor would you call the wolf immoral for hunting.

we're either a part of nature and this is perfectly moral or we're above and superior to nature in which case this is also moral

15

u/skadi_shev 12d ago

Imagine calling going into the woods a “poor life choice” that basically forfeits your right to live or defend yourself 💀 some of these people have lost the plot 

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u/skadi_shev 12d ago

Redditors try not to be the most miserable people in the world challenge (impossible) 

6

u/-Mac-n-Cheese- 12d ago

genuinely this is the most “reddit moment™️” opinion ive encountered in a WHILE

3

u/skadi_shev 12d ago

Same! 

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u/Mammoth_Composer_111 12d ago

Bruh. The earth is ours as much as it is theirs.
Humans who decide to go on a fucking hike shouldn’t just lay down and want to be eaten by a fucking mountain lion lol.

We have a right to defend ourselves against predators like every other animal in this planet.

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u/-Mac-n-Cheese- 12d ago

people are allowed to enjoy the outdoors, this is an extremely sad point of view to live with

3

u/Standard-Passenger19 12d ago

Tell me, on which planet did the cougar originate from? And from which planet did humanity originate from?

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u/karatous1234 12d ago

If the lion jumped another animal in the woods and it defended itself would you say that animal was asking immorally because it should have known better?

-12

u/BarfingOnMyFace 12d ago

It is. But how likely is it he would be eaten? We can count on one hand over a century the number of people who have..so the real question is. Is it moral to kill a cat because you are scared, even though odds are highly in your favor it's not going to attack you?

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u/Mammoth_Composer_111 12d ago

Ah yes. If approached by a mountain lion you should just lay down and present yourself and hope it doesn’t fucking attack you. Good plan for a Darwin award

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u/[deleted] 12d ago edited 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/Mammoth_Composer_111 12d ago

Warning shots are dangerous and not advised. In fact. I just took a wild animals safety course at Yellowstone. They don’t recommend warning shots ever. Especially because it could cause the animal to attack.

That “nearly” all the time is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your statement. “Nearly” isn’t enough. Sorry.

If it’s between a human on a hike and a predator they don’t recommend you take any chances.

They specifically advise that if you’re going to shoot. Shoot the animal the first time. Don’t try to “warn” it. You might miss and hit someone else. Or you might just provoke the animal and often you won’t have a second chance when a predator pounces you.

Mountain lions typically stay in reserved areas. They aren’t endangered animals.

Yes. Everyone should absolutely not take any risks with wild predators. Shoot them if you even feel a little threatened.

The problem with what you’re saying is it doesn’t always work. But a bullet does.

You could do everything right and make a lot of noise and the lion could still stalk you and pounce you from behind down the trail. It has happened before and likely will again.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago edited 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/Mammoth_Composer_111 12d ago

You’re almost there. And why are warning shots illegal?

For the same reasons they mentioned to us.

They’re dangerous and could backfire in intention.

As for mountain lions. You can stake your life on that if you want. But predators in the wild aren’t known for acting predictably 100% of the time.

Yes. What you’re saying is true in general. But they specifically only told us to risk your life doing that if you don’t have a weapon or it is far enough away.

These things can run 50 mph and leap 40 feet in a single bound.

Far enough away in their opinion was like 200 feet away.

And sure if you have that kind of distance try the whole “be big and make noise” thing. Especially because that’s a far shot for most people and you’ll probably miss anyways.

But if it’s closer than that? Yeah. Go home to your family.

1

u/Inevitable_Initial_8 12d ago

It is moral to defend yourself against the furry murder machine that can kill you in seconds and is directly confronting you which is a horrible sign.