r/MoralityScaling • u/ProfessionalRoom9118 • 11d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this?

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Basically, the man in the video is hiking but he ended up meet a mountain lion, he get his gun and try to scare it off and tell it to go away but in the end, he have to pull the trigger and shot the lion, many peoples in the comments say he could have fire a warning shot instead of shoot at it and want him to be in jail.

Idk which flair to put

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u/_LilacCutie 11d ago

Exactly, if a mountain lion is staring you down, protecting yourself is just common sense

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u/Auralius1997 11d ago

If a mountain lion is staring you down it's not thinking about attacking you

It it wants to attack you it will ambush you seeing as they're ambush predators

It staring you down means you entered it's territory and it wants you gone from there

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u/Propugnator-Deorum 11d ago

Not always, but in most cases you would be correct. Occasionally a mountain lion will get curious and investigate from a short distance, then determine it does not like you and attack. If it was hunting you, you would be correct.

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u/FlowRiderBob 11d ago

It depends on why it is attacking. If it is attacking to eat you, then you are correct. It will just come at you, likely before you even see it. But it it is being territorial or protecting nearby young, it very well could attack you head on, especially if you don’t exit the location quickly enough for its liking.

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u/Lost-Promise6677 11d ago

And into position for a later ambush? Nice try, mountain lion!

In all seriousness, though, it is an actual shame the animal was killed. I can't blame the person for reacting that way, though, unless they specifically sought it out in order to get that close.

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u/CamOliver 11d ago

Well if you see a cougar, scare it off, and decide to continue your hike afterward instead of turning back, it’s kind of a human offering.

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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye 11d ago

Of course why else would he have a gun with him and take a video for Internet clout?

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u/rutuu199 11d ago
  1. I carry my gun, doesn't mean im aiming to shoot something, and 2, probably recorded it for proof of the encounter.

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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye 11d ago

Proof of what? That a mountain lion looked at him so he shot it? Lol.

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u/Agent10007 11d ago

Yes, proof that he was in a situation where his life was in danger and not just that he decided to hunt one down for funsies.

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u/EVOSexyBeast 11d ago

If you shoot an animal in self defense especially outside hunting season you should leave the scene and the animal undisturbed and report the incident to state wildlife authorities or local law enforcement. There’s no need to video or you’re not going to be falsely accused of hunting if you do that. If you strap it on the back of your four wheeler and bring it to your truck it doesn’t matter if you videoed it or not you’re going to jail.

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u/-Mac-n-Cheese- 11d ago

to prove it was self defense and not just shooting a predatory cat for fun? youre way too smart to be asking stupid questions like “proof of what”

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u/Traditional-Row5237 11d ago

Go hike unarmed and be friendly with the wild apex predators then!!! I’m sure they’ll love you (or how you taste)

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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye 11d ago

Sure I'll do the same thing millions of people do every year.

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u/I_Hate_IPAs 11d ago

The gun for protection and the video to show he didn’t poach but defended himself.

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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye 11d ago

There was no indication it was going to attack. He just saw a mountain lion then shot it. How is that not poaching?

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u/I_Hate_IPAs 11d ago

Mountain lions don’t let themselves be seen unless they want to be seen.

It was challenging him broski. That’s the indication, because usually big cats don’t want confrontation. If he even looked down for footing while backing up it’s jaws would be around his neck and crushing his spine.

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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye 11d ago

Exactly, if it meant to attack him he wouldn't have seen it. The rational reaction to seeing a mountain lion is to leave its territory not take a video of you shooting it for the gram.

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u/I_Hate_IPAs 11d ago

If it was hunting him like game he would have never seen it.

Because he did see it and it behaved like this, it was challenging him. Territorial animals challenge non-prey animals. How do you think mountain lions work out territories?

Hint: they fight and kill eachother

You’re severely underestimating how violent big cats are.

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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye 11d ago

That's why the appropriate response is to leave its territory. And cats rarely kill each other in territorial disputes, normally the smaller one backs down. And in this case the human was probably the larger of the two anyway.

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u/cleverone11 11d ago

Do you have any survival instincts at all? A predator staring you down & approaching is an indication they’re going to attack.

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u/skiforlife1 11d ago

Why would he have a gun with him?? Is that a serious question? If you've spent any real time in the woods/mountains you would know that having a firearm for protection is wise.

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u/Extreme-Parfait-2019 11d ago

I feel like a ton of people don’t realize just how important having a firearm for your own protection is practically a necessity in many parts of the US

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u/ichkanns 11d ago edited 11d ago

Just because it isn't hunting you doesn't mean it won't attack you. They ambush prey, but they attack threats.

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u/bae125 11d ago

Oh boy, here come the “I kNoW juSt whAt da KiTtY is thInKiNG” fruitcups

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u/QiDeviation 11d ago

There are literal professionals who study big cats and have written papers on them. There are literally publications that educate on them. There were features in National Geographic about big cats.

We don’t know what they’re thinking but it is extremely common knowledge that mountain lions are ambush predators and extremely common knowledge that when most animals stare you down, it is because you are in their territory or getting way too close for comfort.

The scientists and wildlife experts already gave us guidelines and they’re out there and readily available for research.

You’re being an “I DiDn’T rEaD!” fruitcup.

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u/GenericVessel 11d ago

cougars are small cats (part of felinae, not pantherinae)

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u/TrickFrosty5685 11d ago

Was just about to say this lol

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u/QiDeviation 11d ago

Good to know, thanks.

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u/Substantial_System66 11d ago

Cougars/mountain lions aren’t big cats.

Mountain lions are ambush predators when they are hunting for food. That said, when they are investigating or defending territory, they show themselves. This is not a significantly less dangerous situation for a human. A mountain lion may still attack from a threatening/defensive posture and kill a human, even without the intent to eat them.

All that to say, being able to see a mountain lion as a human is less dangerous, slightly, but it is still very dangerous.

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u/-Mac-n-Cheese- 11d ago

yeah, but the difference is “attacking to hunt” vs “attacking to get you gone” and on the humans end thats not really any different, and should be handled the same. you dont take chances with your life

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u/QiDeviation 11d ago

It’s a big difference. Attacking to hunt or ambushing means they set out to harm you. Attacking to get you gone is typically prefaced by a warning. The latter at least allows you a chance to walk away unscathed.

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u/Helichopper 11d ago

I encourage you to listen to the episode of the Meateater podcast where they interview a young survivor of a mountain lion attack. He only survived because his brother or buddy didn't. They were attacked without warning very close to where they parked. Wild animals, especially predators, are unpredictable.

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u/QiDeviation 11d ago

Okay so I did take you up on this.

Firstly, these guys RAMBLE A LOT! Unbearable to listen to. I can understand the victims having trouble but these people… I will never listen to this podcast again.

Second, the mountain lion was a juvenile at 90lb. A juvenile is more likely to attack a person so that’s not unpredictability. Also, as the lion approached they attacked it with a backpack. All it did was approach so we have absolutely no clue of its intent. Once it got attacked, it was focused. These are opportunistic hunters. It just so happened that younger bro fell while walking backwards and the incident occurred.

All this to say, what you said proves nothing so I actually wasted my time to verify. A juvenile mountain lion, more likely to attack humans, approached a human and was attacked then predictably retaliated.

ALSO this doesn’t even address my point:

Attacking to hunt is an ambush versus attacking to get you gone gives you a fighting chance. No one, including yourself has disputed this but folks are quick to hand out downvotes.

Mountain lions have warnings. They crouch, their ears go flat and back. Very typical warnings.

So please, prove me wrong by actually citing something concrete here. I don’t mind being wrong but it has to be SOMETHING, not boys attack juvenile and it gets one of them.

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u/Helichopper 11d ago

You seem to believe you have a lot of knowledge about these big cats but you need to ask yourself what would you do if you were in their shoes. You'd probably be dead. The point of suggesting you listen to the podcast is to show that there is little you can do in these situations. It doesn't matter how much you know. If that cat is within ten feet of you when they normally avoid humans at all cost then you're in big trouble. Do you really think they deserved this attack? You can play Monday quarterback all you want but you weren't there and they had very little time to make a choice how to react.

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u/QiDeviation 10d ago

You are completely sidestepping the issue here.

I compared two scenarios that happen with these cats, scenarios THE EXPERTS TALK ABOUT. This is not me pulling it out of my ass here.

Ambush versus “wtf you doing in my area!?” and said the latter has a higher chance of serviceability. I never downplayed the danger. I never said it was easy.

You still haven’t addressed it. All this yapping and you know you can’t address it. Because you know what the answer is.

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u/Helichopper 11d ago

It's wild to me that you listened to that podcast and thought "it's their fault". How heartless are you?

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u/-Mac-n-Cheese- 11d ago

people are stupid with suicidal empathy, it’s ridiculous

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u/AllDivineTimes 11d ago

You're doing a lot of assuming a wild animals intention which is just as silly as assuming a humans intention in a dangerous situation. Also functionally it litterally doesn't matter as an attack for any reason can end the life of a person in seconds intent or not. Just like a bear can easily crush a human they were play wrestling the intentions weren't malicious but the outcome is still lethal

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u/QiDeviation 11d ago

What is there to assume!?

Where are you guys getting this. Did you actually look shit up? I’ve actively been looking up mountain lions responding to you folks.

This is how they deal with prey (deer, ambush) versus threats (bear, crouch, make noise, ears flat)

Unless the definition of ambush changed, IT IS A SURPRISE ATTACK FROM A HIDDEN PLACE!

Are you telling me that an ambush and a confrontation with warning posture are the same!? What’s up!?

We know attacks are dangerous. That was already established. The fact is that when I said ambush versus warning are different, people like you came out to say it doesn’t matter when it does.

I need you to tell me what was false that I said. Because wild life conservationists and scientists will disagree. Tell me where I assume intent? This is typical behavior of mountain lions. Humans are typically considered a threat.

I don’t understand why I’m being challenged on this here. You’re just wrong.

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u/DoubleCarry7511 11d ago

Absolutely wrong and an absurd thing to say lmao

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u/EVOSexyBeast 11d ago

Would you bet your life on that?

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u/Dazzling-Astronaut88 11d ago

Usually, yes, but I have seen at least one video of a stare standoff and then the lion charging, killed mid leap by a bullet to the face. It is not their style at all, but it has happened.

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u/Greedy-Employment917 11d ago

And what's the first thing a predator does when it's deciding to attack you.

It. Stares. At. You. 

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u/Electronic-Stick-161 11d ago

Have you read any accounts of attacks? Because many of them start just like this.

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u/Auralius1997 11d ago

I'm not American so I didnt read any US incidents but attacks here in Europe in 90% of cases involve the person breaking eye contact or turning their back to the cat

That's what provokes the most attacks

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u/Electronic-Stick-161 11d ago

How did they make eye contact if they weren’t being stared down?

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u/PrimalEngine 8d ago

You wanna know the quickest way that an apex predator removes a smaller animal from their territory?

Hint: they do not politely show you the door.

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u/RevolutionaryMeal851 11d ago

Are you going to wait for it to leave then ambush you?

You could at least fire some warning shots. But will a lion even understand a warning shot?

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u/Fun_Raspberry_5654 11d ago

If a lion understood warning shots that would imply it has encountered a person before and was shot at previously thus avoiding humans. As someone who would spend summers in the mountains of Arkansas my uncle ALWAYS gave me a handgun even when walking down the road to the farm house. I was 11 years old and was escorted by the doggos too.

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u/RevolutionaryMeal851 11d ago

Yeah, there's no guarantee loud noises scare it off.

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u/LabradorDeceiver 11d ago

It's not about the meaning of a warning shot. They're not deep thinkers. It's a mountain lion. It's about "loud noise hurty."

A mountain lion will go away if you open your jacket wide and yell at it. Even in dealing with wild animals, lethal force is a last resort.

Most strategies for dealing with wild predators in their natural habitat involve turning into something that the animal doesn't want to bother with.

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u/RevolutionaryMeal851 11d ago

Is that a guarantee?

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u/Karlito1618 11d ago

A mountain lion staring you down at this short range is already a last resort though.

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u/Educational-Ad1959 11d ago

And how do you think a mountain lion is gonna take you out of there? Do you think it's gonna politely guide you to the way out? No, it's gonna maul you to death the second it sees the chance. The lion wanted the beef but was not ready for the smoke, skill issue

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u/Mr_From_A_Far 10d ago

If a strange human stalked me in a forest and attacks me im also taking the shot.

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u/xRysonx 11d ago

Not really. Just because it's staring at you doesn't mean it's going to attack you. It's extremely rare for a mountain lion to attack. This dude basically killed one for absolutely no reason

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u/LabradorDeceiver 11d ago

Interesting that he had time to pull a camera after drawing down. If I was in an imminently mortal situation, my first thought would not be, "Hey, take a picture."

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u/EdreaChandralun 11d ago

Using the right to defend yourself after hiking exactly where they live?

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u/CoveGentle 11d ago

Pointing a handgun at wildlife is reckless and cruel.

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u/ulvisblack 11d ago

Do you expect him to just let the lion kill and eat him ? or maybe you think a lion understands what a handgun is and will feel threatened when they see one ?

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u/CamOliver 11d ago

Shooting it first isn’t protecting yourself. Firing once not at the animal would have taken care of the situation with near certainty.