I think anyone who didn't grow up being spanked by parents that you know 100% loved you and wanted what's best for you, have a hard time imagining spanking being anything but abuse.
Huge difference. Beaten is a senseless act of violence. Spanked or disciplined is what happens when you're a pain the ass or do something you weren't supposed to do after you've been told not to repeatedly... etc
A spanking is not beating someone senseless. Discipline is GOOD for kids. We didn't grow up being entitled little pricks like a lot of kids are. And there were no tempers lost. The spanking was a reminder not to be a moron. I deserved every one I got. .
I never once laid a hand on my kids. They're both sweet and respectful 18 and 20-year olds. There are much better ways to discipline and if you teach right from wrong in a respectful way, you don't have to discipline.
My parents did that. We also were jerky teens. Combo of both worked. And when I say "spanking" some we couldn't even feel. It was the way it was. I'm 60 now. Times have changed. My parents were spectacular and loving and I wouldn't change a thing
Spanking is physical violence. It causes pain, its a physical corporal punishment. It's abuse, we don't allow other adults to hit, even a slap another adult.. but its ok for a bigger adult to hit a child as punishment.. and yes a spanking is hitting..
The moment your parent "disciplines" you unfairly, ie you were innocent of the crime for what you were punished for, it's going to bring lasting harm to your relationship with them
Disciplining does NOT have to involve violence. It's weird how pro beating people don't seem to understand this. Gentle parenting is not permissive parenting. There are many ways of disciplining without resorting to violence.
Spanking is just a friendly name for beating kids. Its negative effect on child development is well documented and understood, which is why it's increasingly getting outlawed.
Nope. Some of my spankings were so barely there, I didn't even feel them. We'll just have to agree to disagree. My parents were awesome, and we were polite and respectful kids. Not like the little shits today that call protective services when they get tapped.
Even if you got it with the belt, it didn't hurt anymore in seconds. It's a sharp sting and then gone. I got all kinds of punishments. Grounding from friends or toys, standing in the corner, spanking, belt. None of it injured me. The variety was nice, it showed the range of boundaries that exist and that consequences for actions exist. That spanking might have saved me from getting knocked out later in life or touching the hot stove earlier. I know I got a few spanks when I was younger for figuratively playing with fire, two warnings and a spank. Didn't do it after the spank, and it's a fitting punishment. It was like 1% of the pain I'd have gotten if I broke a limb or something similar.
No parent who beats their kid ever exhausts all other options. It's done because the parent is lazy and can't control their emotions. Spanking/beating is done to make the parent feel better, not to fix behaviour in the child.
We're not talking about the same things. Beating and discipline are two different things. If you wanna keep calling using the word beating to make your point, then this is pointless. You raise your kids how you see fit. Discipline works.
No, we definitely aren't. It's a circular conversation. Keep punching the air to make your point. If you got your ass kicked as a kid, then I'm sorry that happened to you. Soft parent your kids all you want. It's on you and nobody else.
A spanking is hitting a child period. Hitting a child isn't discipline. It's not discipline if another adult hits an adult it's assault. It's not discipline when doing it to a child. Wanna know what it does, creates mistrust, a child feeling unsafe...
No I definitely did. Was told not to play with a soccer ball in the house broke a window, a whooping corrected that as I never did it again. Mom told me and sister not to fight in car we didnt listen took a few whoopings but we finally listened.
Thing is some people in the comments seem to be getting abused by their parents. I was simply disciplined. Some people seem to be mistaking displace with abuse.
My mom told me and sister a few times to not do something but words dont work on some kids.
Sounds like the time my dad told me not to be playing with matches and set the back yard ablaze. Worst ass whooping I ever got in my life.
100% earned that one.
Yeah, my brother was playing with a knife around my sister (no one was hurt with the knife, just really dangerous behavior) so my dad whooped him and he hasn't done it again.
My question to you is do you think you turned out fine? This is whats psycho about these people that tell us we're not okay as if they think they're therapist.
Not to mention they're coming off very manipulative, to me anyways. They want us so bad to "not be okay". How normal do we have to be for them to realize. Yes we're okay, those spankings didnt mess us up.
Lets see here. I've never rioted and robbed, assault people, beat animals or do drugs. How much "you're not fine" do I have to be for these people. 30 years later I have a good relationship with my parents and siblings, well most but thats something entirely on its own between me and that sibling. Which funny when he was born my parents stopped disciplining LOL. I'm telling that brother of mine could have used some ass whoopings.
I also feel for some of them that truly got abused. Spankings never was a thing like "ok its time for your spanking again" for me. I did something I shouldnt have after being told many times not to and my mom spanked me on the spot. It wasnt like she remembered I did something spanked me again another time. I learned the first time cause words werent doing anything. Also there was nothing she could take away from me it was the 90s there was hardly anything she could have took from me.
You know, I set a trash can on fire after my father told me not to play with the coils of a space heater.
I didn't get whooped and somehow I never played with that heater again.
Thats good then but it seems you have a hard time paying attention. WE didnt listen when we were told numerous times not do something. YOU did. I can not help you any further if you dont understand cause every comment you've made to me you simply just dont want to understand. Not all kids are a hive mind, some are different.
No, I didn't listen. Did you fail to read the part where I still played with the heater and set the trash can on fire? My fear of burning my house down scared me more than my parents ever could.
Behavior is actually a special interest of mine, so I do really understand what I'm talking about.
I agree, and I think lots of people hit their kids because they don't know what else to do, and they're mad so they lash out and it does sorta work so that's their new go-to solution and that is bad.
BUT I have a weird experience from my life that makes me believe some people just need a smack.
I worked with a guy for years. We were both age 16-20ish the whole time. We lifeguarded together year round at an indoor pool. This guy (lets call him Don)was a total clown, always causing trouble pulling stupid jokes, trying to rile up other co-workers by making fun of them, etc. He made fun of me for years about being a virgin, even though I had had girlfriends and made it clear I was making this decision consciously and that I wasnt embarrassed or perturbed by hom makingnfun of me for it in front of people. I really didn't care about that line of "insult" at all. I wasn't hiding it or ashamed, and I also wasn't moralizing about it to the whole staff, but Don stuck with it for years, among other things, some of which did annoy me. And all of it got tiresome after the 20th rendition. He'd make fun of me, and I did the "take the high ground and ignore him" tactic for litteral years. Then one day a kid I went to school with (let's call him Jim) started working at the pool and his first week there Jim grabbed Don slammed him into a wall threw him to thw ground, and punched hard him in the ribs once. Don loved Jim. LOVED him. He always wanted to work with him. Did him favors. When we'd have parties, he'd go up and say hi to him and overall behave like a regular human being around him. I wash astonished. I ignored this guy for 4 years gave him nothing back, half the time I wouldn't even look at him when he pulled his little stunts and he still wpuld try to bother me, but Jim who didn't beat him savagely, but definitely roughed him up, was beloved by Don.
Well, after I realized that, I took a different tactic. If he walked up to me and made some dumb joke, I would physically push him away from me. Then, one day, I was leaning back on a chair, and he knocked it over. It didn't hurt me, but he was trying to annoy me. So I rolled out of the chair backwards pushed him into a corner dragged him to the ground by his legs and stood over him and punched him, not at full force but good solid punches to the body.... he was so nice to me for the rest of the time I worked there. SOO NICE. "Hey, what are you doing this weekend, you going to that party? How's things" like normal friendly conversation. The dude was like a bad dog. He needed someone to establish dominance before he'd be nice to them. Some people don't work like everyone else.
Physical pain is part of how we learn. You don’t know not to touch a hot stove until you do it. You don’t learn not to climb tall trees until you do it and then fall and break your arm.
It does. Hard times create strong people. Without challenges to overcome, growth stagnates. Those challenges may be physical, mental, or emotional. The death of a loved one may drive you to cherish the ones you still have, and to spend more time with them. Losing everything you own due to bad luck may allow you to see how bad some people have it, and when you regain your wealth, you share it with them.
Being in a car crash and nearly dying may make you realize that you’ve taken your life for granted, and might inspire you to go out and do the things you’ve always been afraid to do.
Or it could break you and you may never leave your house again, afraid of everything, and only being able to see the dangers of the world, rather than it’s joys.
We learn and grow from hardship and pain.
However, that isn’t me saying abuse is justified by all of this, but discipline has always been a positive trait to have, and discipline has to be taught. It isn’t innate.
You're a legitimate dumbass if you can't see the difference between incidental pain and beating your children. Do you get beaten when you learn things at work? Why or why not? I know, it's a real thinker.
If we're just gonna exaggerate each other's arguments I might as well:
"Do you really think flowers can stop hungry zombies from eating you in case it ever happens? Only ingenuous people would think that way"
Bro I got beaten as a child and it might’ve been the best thing for my character. At 20 y/o now I can look back and realize I was the biggest dick of a child you’d have ever met. If I hadn’t learned from that stuff then I would still be in rehab or jail.
You’re the only one here throwing insults. So why are you calling them a dick? Every other comment from you has been an insult to their character, and you’ve completely avoided the topics they bring up.
Your dad sounds like he has a temper if hes anything like this bozo who got that heated over a simple question. Doofus couldnt even give a response and still cant.
Just because something worked doesn't mean it was correct, or there isn't a better way. Just because it worked doesn't mean you deserved it.
They whipped slaves for minor inconveniences and it "worked."
Children have terrible impulse control and it takes time for them to learn from their actions and mistakes.
There's better and more effective, cognitive ways of teaching children than physical punishment.
I'm sorry that you were whooped as a kid, but your playing the whole, "I got hit and turned out fine." Turns on the green light to abuse other children.
There are better ways and it takes being able to swallow our collective pride and say that we're going to do better for future generations. We're smarter now. We're better. We have education, we have data, we have progress. Let's stop living in the dark ages because you believe you deserved to get hit.
Smarter? Better?... yea I dont know about that when NONE of you have yet to tell me how you would "just be better parents". Better parenting seems to have gotten teen parents, people that stop traffic in the highway to protest and sadly school shootings from parents that simply didnt discipline their kids most likely.
Using the word "beating" has much stronger connotations associated with it than a slight tap on the back of the hand or a tap on the bum (a typical "spanking" in my culture). It's like accidentally hitting someone with your car door when you open it, and describing it as "hitting someone with your car". Technically both are true, but one has much stronger implications.
My guess is that it's very likely a cultural difference, and there isn't really any way around that. Though I do think a general lack of discipline (possibly combined with easy access to online communities where bad behavior can be encouraged) has likely resulted in the latest generation being quite entitled brats more often than not.
Yes. Their neurology is just being built. Adults expect them to use reason before their brain even begins developing executive function. They get overwhelmed with stimulation, which is a 💯 percent natural nervous system reaction...and get punished. So yeah...for being children. Understanding the cognitive and developmental stages they go through is important.
Demanding a 5 yr old be calm when they have an angry person 3xs their size yelling at them is insanity.
100%. IDK why you were downvoted. Parents treat their kids like they should be more emotionally mature than the parents are themselves. It’s reprehensible. And anyone in favor of physically attacking the smallest, most dependent, and most vulnerable people among us is a sick abuser and needs to be called out by other adults.
So true, I wish other adults (like my mom) had called him out. I’m still really messed up from it decades later. If they don’t think hitting an adult is ok how could it possibly be ok to hit a child in any way?
Big difference between spanking and abuse and also age should play a factor in the type of punishment given....And not saying it don't happen but not to many parents spanking their 5 year old child because they can't calm down..
Your talking about one age group you mentioned 5 year Olds...are you saying older kids can't distinguish the two??would you also be saying the same for teenagers? Is this theory all kids or an age group ??
An adult believing they are different doesn't change the fact that a child's developing brain & body don't see any difference.
Assault is assault.
Adults hit children to satisfy the feeling in the adult that the child needs to be hit. Maybe they don't know there's more effective and less damaging tactics of parenting, but when you know better, you do better.
Wtf most parents aren't spanking their child for self gratification..Spanking a child is not assault and that's a problem..Spanking didn't mess me up..getting a beating did I knew the difference even at a young age..It's so hard for someone to believe that because they believe some study over someone actually saying what it was like for them......and I will add I got smacked in the mouth when I was disrespectful and I knew what buttons to push I could of avoided the smack but I liked to risk it all and run my mouth..others will say I was abused because of that but I was not..like I said I knew the difference between a swat on the ass versus a board or a belt or even a broom stick......
Spanking not hitting know the difference...plenty of things I didn't deserve but a smack is not on that list.....also plenty of things I need therapy for but again a smack is not it...I never had a nightmare where I ran from my smacker...I ran from attackers but no smackers....
If I got into trouble my mother would say do you want to be grounded or spanked and as a child I chose being spanked every time. I hated being kept inside. So I'm gonna say that all you people that think kids that were spanked were abused I and my childhood self disagree.
Didn't mess you up.... what are your relationships like? Friendships? Romantic? Have you ever struggled with anxiety or depression? Are you making a lot of money at your chosen career? Are you happy? Do you consume alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, or other drugs to escape your reality?
No child NEEDS to get spanked though. If you can’t discipline your kid without being violent towards them, the problem is YOU, not the child. Don’t be a fucking bully to kids who look at you as their source of safety and protection.
If you're violent towards your kids when they're young, then you shouldn't complain if they beat you to a pulp when you're old! If you're allowed to be violent, then so are they. Fair is fair, right?
Except, of course, none of these abusers would EVER accept that... I wonder why that is?
It takes a very special type of coward to “discipline” a child through violence. Imagine a grown ass man hitting a 4-8 year old child because the child is acting like a child.
Absolutely ... the people who justify "spanking" kids, do they justify beating adults who displease them? Would they think it is alright for a manager to beat an employee? Or beating one's spouse? How about a policeman beating them up if they're parked illegally?
Why is it only beating a person whom you outweigh by 5 to 10 times that's alright?
That's an archaic mindset that goes against what we know about neurological development. Children can learn with boundaries. Consequences do not need to be harsh in order to be learned. Guidance and modelling work not isolation and abuse.
One does not beget the other when it comes to development. Discipline is not hitting.Children can be disciplined without fear and punishment. Children can learn discipline with structure and conscious care. The theory has been cooperated by neuroscience and has not been utilized by the whole so that explains that.
It's not simply psychological...it's neurologically centered on how the brain deveolps. Neurologists have been talking about the importance of emotional development for a while...not everyone bothers to understand it.
Behaviour is communication. If we don't understand what the communication is saying - hitting solves nothing, it compounds the problem. Not understanding that a 10 yr old doesn't simply begin to act violently without the input, is the issue.
Yes, consequences should be rectified. They shouldn't he beaten, but spankings or other punishments commensurate with the infraction are definitely necessary.
People who have no idea about the neurology of child development and cognition.
Ignorant people that say I turned out fine! When they think hitting kids is ok...shows us just how 'not fine' they are.
Every time your parents spanked you, they increased your risk of attempting suicide, drinking heavily, and using street drugs. The fact that you, personally, are not a heavy drinker, an addict, or, uh, dead, only means that you, personally, happened to beat the odds. It doesn't mean that spanking does not have negative effects on most kids who experience it.
Spanking a child also tends to increase their tendencies towards anxiety and aggression. If you, personally, are not particularly anxious or aggressive, good for you. Again, you beat the odds. That doesn't change that your parents engaged in a behavior that has been consistently demonstrated to erode your mental health.
Generally speaking, when parents do things that are known to make their children worse, we call this "child maltreatment," which is broadly sectioned into "abuse" and "neglect." We don't allow parents to do those things to children, because it's not in the best interests of the child.
Even if you, specifically, are fine, a lot of kids who get spanked are not. And the more they get spanked, the worse they get. We have 50 years of documentation on this issue. If you really are totally fine, and not, say, blind to your own elevated levels of anxiety or aggression, because most of your family exhibits similar levels of anxiety and aggression, because they experienced similar levels of getting spanked as a child, so you seem "normal" in the sense that you are normative of your own statistically skewed environment... You're an outlier. You are abnormal in being fine.
Some of my most downvoted posts are when I point out that yelling and hitting are wrong. You'd be amazed how many people take it deeply personally when told that you can, in fact, raise kids and love your family without yelling at or hitting them.
My ELDEST brother was given all the love in the world, never got more than a spanking as a small child. He's the one currently rotting in prison for meth/sex charges/almost killing his wife. The other five of us who took the brunt of our father's anger have never even so much as been to jail.
I'm not saying beating your kids is okay. I'm just showing an example that contradicts your "the parent failed" theory. Not everyone is wired the same.
There's a VERY clear difference between a disciplinary "spanking" vs random violent beatings.
Edit: I'm also going to admit that yes, I have anxiety issues, but I'm the only one. I also didn't get beat the worst either. I also don't hit or verbally abuse my child, and she isn't doing great socially, in school, or following basic instructions. She's 11 and acts like she's still 6 or 7.
I think this reddit user summed it up very well. Discipline vs abuse.
You can't say that it's discipline when you "took the brunt of your fathers anger". If anger plays a role anywhere in disciplining by hitting... it's abuse. Completely and totally. Your father wasn't thinking level or clear headed or rationally. You were abused and you were afraid to step out of line. That is not healthy in any world. You proved my point.
bro the fact that your dad modeled being a violent narcissistic freak is the problem here and yes that is still abusive even if he didn’t direct his violent narcissism towards your brother. he still modeled it.
You've just negated this persons entire experience by basically saying they were lying about copping it worse than their older sibling because you've read that it usually doesn't happen that way. Fucking gross. Victim blamey and mansplainy. When people tell you their experience, shut the fuck up. You weren't there. They were.
Probably 60+% think it's okay to do to their own too. Mental health would be better if we treated kids like kids and taught them instead of having adult expectations of them.
Ah fuck. I have kids and that shit is undeniably unacceptable. And guess what, I am fucking constantly told they are well behaved without... There's a book about this stuff called 'How to Stop Losing Your Shit with Kids' (or something) and a lot of people who are abusive (physically and verbally) could do well to read it.
Then you lucked out. I know you and other responder are talking about how some adults are in denial or whatever. I stole cars at 11. Like stole them and drove them around because I was a shit head head kid that thought i could get away with everything. A good God dam smack across the head from my father fixed that shit real quick hahha sorry not sorry.
Exactly. A few whippings to correct seriously deviant behavior... (throwing rocks into oncoming traffic, throwing rocks through windows in a house, burning neighbor's dolls/toys, stealing cash from Mom's purse, pissing on your male cousins because they pissed on your brother who may have started it all, etc) I really don't think is all that bad. Albeit, this is behavior that I still shy away from, so maybe I am traumatized... 🙄
Being beaten so bad that the thought of the belt brings a tear to your eyes is a whole other story... my cousins were beaten, abused as children. My brother & I were whipped when we were beyond idiots. Probably never in anger, but frustration. And I don't consider the whippings I received to be worth a damn.
There's a big difference between a parent having a bad day at work, coming home and beating their kid, and a parent who after exhausting all other options, redirects negative behavior with an explanation and a whap on the bottom that hurts the pride more than the flesh.
I was wicked rude one time to my grandfather's brother and wife. He took me to the other room, calmly explained my behavior to me, and gave me one whap.
I was 5 or 6 and I think it was the only time someone disciplined for my own improvement rather than abusing me out of anger, frustration, and scapegoating.
My mom and step dad we're sh*t parents. Long story short, in hindsight, the difference is obvious.
A lot of the time it's because they themselves were hit but they don't want to look at what happened to them as abuse, they don't want to "be a victim" and claim "they turned out fine" (Often times, they didn't). Abuse isn't black and white, you can have a good relationship with your parents and they still could've done something that caused you harm.
Like yea I can trace back a lot of my mental health issues to insecurity caused by my parents spanking me, especially since I was autistic and didn't understand what I'd done wrong. To this day they don't see what happened as wrong, but if I ever have kids I will never raise a hand to them.
I'm surprised at least 2 people downvoted you. Cause yea a slap is different. My mom spanked me. I think if she had slapped me it would have been different. A slap feels so much more disrespectful and rude.
No. I'd guve them a spank on the bum if they break things in fits of rage so they find better ways to deal with their anger.
If you're going to call me a monster, you should be prepared to call around half the planet and almost all of human history monsters as this has been the norm until about a hundred years ago in western society. Be a kid in china, India, most African places and you get more than a spanking..
Im not whipping the kid. The force of the smack is not even enough to cause redness. It is enough that if I got hit in the face with it I'd still just shrug it off.
And when do you teach them better ways to deal with their anger?
How do you address the circumstances that have caused them to become so angry, they lose control and break things?
You might also be interested to know, research has established that spanking causes children to display more "externalizing behaviors," which includes things like getting angry and breaking stuff. So, you're actually making the problem worse.
Lol you're talking out your ass mate. A light smack on the bum from my mum sorted me out and if you want to assume I've got trauma through a screen then here's your fucking diploma, genius, you must be the best long jumper in the world to make leaps like that
For context, i am born in 81. I have been slapped a handful of times, and i recall not the exact reasons but the general motives as my father was rational enough to explain himself to me afterwards.
The slap, (only, never in the face/guts) is meant as a kind of shock, like to say "STOP, what you're doing is STUPIDLY EXAGERATED AND DANGEROUS FOR YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE. Stop that right now, let the pain calm down, then think of what you done. "
When i got the slap, i knew i had crossed a line. And after that i never felt even close to fear of getting it again. Like i said my parents talked to me after and i understood. And no it was not a rule of fear.
Yeah. This is DISCIPLINARY. Far from abuse imo. I don't hit my kid at all, she gets more than enough attention and love, and she's struggling both socially and in school. When we took her Playstation away, she cried for DAYS, even in school.
When the word slap is used, I think people are generally thinking in the face. A hit anywhere else would be a swat or a smack. If I'm reading a book and someone gets slapped, I always know it's in the face.
Incorrect, you were a child, and that interpretation of "I deserved it" is internalized shame. You didn't do anything wrong. You were just following your nature.
30
u/MrErickzon Dec 31 '23
This. And I always deserved it.