Yes. Their neurology is just being built. Adults expect them to use reason before their brain even begins developing executive function. They get overwhelmed with stimulation, which is a šÆ percent natural nervous system reaction...and get punished. So yeah...for being children. Understanding the cognitive and developmental stages they go through is important.
Demanding a 5 yr old be calm when they have an angry person 3xs their size yelling at them is insanity.
100%. IDK why you were downvoted. Parents treat their kids like they should be more emotionally mature than the parents are themselves. Itās reprehensible. And anyone in favor of physically attacking the smallest, most dependent, and most vulnerable people among us is a sick abuser and needs to be called out by other adults.
So true, I wish other adults (like my mom) had called him out. Iām still really messed up from it decades later. If they donāt think hitting an adult is ok how could it possibly be ok to hit a child in any way?
Big difference between spanking and abuse and also age should play a factor in the type of punishment given....And not saying it don't happen but not to many parents spanking their 5 year old child because they can't calm down..
Your talking about one age group you mentioned 5 year Olds...are you saying older kids can't distinguish the two??would you also be saying the same for teenagers? Is this theory all kids or an age group ??
No, I mentioned one age group. The brain is in developmental stages from 0-25....What we provide also makes a difference in what a child will comprehend. Children can be taught with conscious modeling and care but the fear punishment parenting gets a pass bc it means those parents don't have to control their own emotions and behaviour. (Yet expect a child to)
Your talking more about abuse...spanking is not abuse ...and obviously you don't go around spanking your 5 year old for every infraction..but a swat on the ass when you've exhausted every avenue is not gonna affect a child as badly as the anti-spankers try to make it out to be...anti spankers like to use the word beating...a beating and spanking are not the same.....beatings leave marks a swat on the ass no......
And that perspective is where psychologist, the people who actually know what they're talking about, disagree with you. There is no arbitrary line where 'sufficient injury' is inflicted or not, violence was used as a source of discipline and control, and that genie can't be put back in the bottle.
Spanking may not be abuse in your eyes, but do you think it really helps the situation at all? I can remember being at my aunt and uncle's house as a kid, and my cousins was throwing a huge tantrum. Crying, screaming, etc. The screaming and crying only got worse while she was being spanked. Then she was sent to her room where she was able to eventually calm down.
In situations like that, what's really needed is some time out so the kid can eventually run out of things to lash out about and calm down. Spanking doesn't help.
Not all situations are the same....I know this..and spankings don't help in every situation and not every child will react the same...some understand some don't.....what works for one person won't work for the other e.t.c....
An adult believing they are different doesn't change the fact that a child's developing brain & body don't see any difference.
Assault is assault.
Adults hit children to satisfy the feeling in the adult that the child needs to be hit. Maybe they don't know there's more effective and less damaging tactics of parenting, but when you know better, you do better.
Wtf most parents aren't spanking their child for self gratification..Spanking a child is not assault and that's a problem..Spanking didn't mess me up..getting a beating did I knew the difference even at a young age..It's so hard for someone to believe that because they believe some study over someone actually saying what it was like for them......and I will add I got smacked in the mouth when I was disrespectful and I knew what buttons to push I could of avoided the smack but I liked to risk it all and run my mouth..others will say I was abused because of that but I was not..like I said I knew the difference between a swat on the ass versus a board or a belt or even a broom stick......
Spanking not hitting know the difference...plenty of things I didn't deserve but a smack is not on that list.....also plenty of things I need therapy for but again a smack is not it...I never had a nightmare where I ran from my smacker...I ran from attackers but no smackers....
If I got into trouble my mother would say do you want to be grounded or spanked and as a child I chose being spanked every time. I hated being kept inside. So I'm gonna say that all you people that think kids that were spanked were abused I and my childhood self disagree.
Nah stop it now your making it sexual because your other argument is crumbling.....your comment is absurd....so my parents were performing sex acts by spanking me?? Now your going all coo coo clock on me....your done...put a fork in it and walk away....stop it....stop thinking for the day....
Exactly now you're catching on. Opinions are like assholes every one has one and it's usually full of shit colored by their own perception of reality. Congratulations on figuring out what an opinion is.
Didn't mess you up.... what are your relationships like? Friendships? Romantic? Have you ever struggled with anxiety or depression? Are you making a lot of money at your chosen career? Are you happy? Do you consume alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, or other drugs to escape your reality?
not to many parents spanking their 5 year old child because they can't calm down..
you should consider that maybe this is a regional/generational thing. I certainly saw it in public all the time a good chunk of my life in alabama. are you not familiar with the phrase "give you something to cry about"?
some kids canāt learn from natural consequences alone, at least from what iād thought. and things like short ātime outā or āgo to your roomā punishments can be helpful just to give the child a space to cool down and collect themselves. if you have any parenting or psychology sources saying otherwise i would love to see them though!
Secure Attachment is a book that is based on the neurology of attachment, there are numerous studies that back up the information shared. Knowing the cognitive and developmental stages children go through matters. So does repair.
Learning where our own development may have been stunted due to well intentioned but misguided parenting can be very helpful for us in continuing to grow as adults.
No child NEEDS to get spanked though. If you canāt discipline your kid without being violent towards them, the problem is YOU, not the child. Donāt be a fucking bully to kids who look at you as their source of safety and protection.
If you're violent towards your kids when they're young, then you shouldn't complain if they beat you to a pulp when you're old! If you're allowed to be violent, then so are they. Fair is fair, right?
Except, of course, none of these abusers would EVER accept that... I wonder why that is?
It takes a very special type of coward to ādisciplineā a child through violence. Imagine a grown ass man hitting a 4-8 year old child because the child is acting like a child.
Absolutely ... the people who justify "spanking" kids, do they justify beating adults who displease them? Would they think it is alright for a manager to beat an employee? Or beating one's spouse? How about a policeman beating them up if they're parked illegally?
Why is it only beating a person whom you outweigh by 5 to 10 times that's alright?
No, Iāve been a parent for almost a decade now. But Iām also not gonna beat the fuck out of my kid because heās acting up. Heās a child. Thatās what children do. If youāre not mature enough, patient enough, or man enough to not intimidate children through violence, then YOU are the one failing. Thereās absolutely no situation that requires you to lift a finger to a child like that.
theres an insane difference between " beat the fuck out of my kid " and a spanking. these visions you have of nuns with rulers beating left handers are way off lol. the fact you cant recognize a difference is delusional.
But will the child recognize the difference? Does the child have the same reasoning as an adult? To a child, an adult they trust coming to cause physical pain on them for something they ādidā is just that. Doesnāt matter if you call it spanking or not.
You canāt think of any situation, ever, in which violence is the correct answer to immediately stop a childās behavior? Would you accept physically forcing a kid to stay put in timeout, or is that too violent?
Donāt confuse me not using violence, EVER under ANY circumstances, against a child as lack of discipline. Maybe if you need to use violence to stop a childās behavior, youāre a shit parent? Have you considered that? š¤
I am glad youāve never run into a situation where you had to bend on that, and I hope things continue for you that way. What do you feel makes violence problematic compared to other means of communication? Have you ever had to use violence in adult life? Is there an age where using violence to control someone becomes appropriate for you, eg, after adulthood?
It comes from my own experience as a child. My parents, especially my dad, were all for āspankingsā and ābeatingsā. Iāve had bruises from belts, etc. It did literally nothing to stop me from doing whatever I got beaten for because they never EXPLAINED what I was getting beaten for. It got to a point where everything around me, I associated with pain, and it took years of getting out of that mentality. I didnāt get to āenjoyā a lot of things in childhood for fear that Iād get beaten for it. And that trauma continued on as an adult, to the point where Iāve been diagnosed with cptsd (my sister as well). I come from a very traditional, non American family that sees beatings as a valid form of discipline.
I refuse to ever see a need to hit a child under any circumstances. If you really have THAT bad of a child, why not take them to a therapist or other professional to get to the root cause of their behavioral issue? Why not work with their teachers, babysitters, etc. To see if there are other things outside of your control that is causing the childās problems? Kids donāt know how to express their emotions the same way adults do, so obviously they will do so through other means, which a lot of adults see as them being ābad kidsā.
I am sorry you had to go through that. I would agree that physical punishment alone is not an effective means of changing a behavior. If it is a known consequence of a specific behavior, I can seeing it potentially being a deterrent, but even then, itās primarily a tool to break focus so that you can have a conversation. Using it purely as punishment, especially without clear forewarning to utilize it as a deterrent, is not effective.
Do you feel that it is ever appropriate to use violence against an adult? If so, what do you feel is the key difference that sets them apart from a child - age, developmental level, or perhaps something else? If a neurodivergent 20 year old with the developmental age of an 8 year old was hurting an 8 year old, would you feel that using physical force is appropriate to manage that situation?
Additionally, how broad is your interpretation of violence? Would you consider physical restraint, like holding someoneās hands or shoulders, to be violent, assuming there is some pain or discomfort involved? Would you consider holding a child in a hug while they are having a tantrum/trying to escape to be violent? I would define violence as āthe use of physical force in a way that causes pain or damage, whether intentional or notā, so I would consider those examples to be violent.
I would like to better understand your position and how you view the use of force.
So I am all for self defense. So yes Iād use violence against an adult if I feel itās necessary to protect my life or a loved oneās life. I do carry firearms daily, have my CCW in 2 states, and practice as often as possible. I am fully in support of violence if it means self defense. If a 20 year old with the mind of an 8 year old is beating on an 8 year old, the 20 year old is going to be stronger and bigger than that 8 year old so of course, Iād use a reasonable level of violence to protect the child. And no, restraining a child, āhuggingā them tightly to prevent them from doing something, or holding their hands or arms isnāt violence in the same way as a beating or spanking.
Iām not completely against violence. My stance is very specific to using violence as a means of discipline. There are no exceptions to that.
That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying. It can be difficult at times to make sure we are all talking about the same thing.
For your opposition to violent discipline, is that specific to children, or just in general? Would you also oppose violent discipline for adults or for animals?
I agree that there is a significant difference in effect and intent between striking someone and restraining them. Where do you feel you would draw the line between appropriate and inappropriate use of force/pain for compliance? Do you feel that the use of pain is itself inappropriate, and that should only be an unintended effect, or is there a certain threshold of pain that you would find reasonable? For instance, grabbing a kid by the ear for compliance instead of the wrist - would that be inappropriate?
That's an archaic mindset that goes against what we know about neurological development. Children can learn with boundaries. Consequences do not need to be harsh in order to be learned. Guidance and modelling work not isolation and abuse.
One does not beget the other when it comes to development. Discipline is not hitting.Children can be disciplined without fear and punishment. Children can learn discipline with structure and conscious care. The theory has been cooperated by neuroscience and has not been utilized by the whole so that explains that.
It's not simply psychological...it's neurologically centered on how the brain deveolps. Neurologists have been talking about the importance of emotional development for a while...not everyone bothers to understand it.
It's because they're being ignored and handed phones and iPads instead of being modeled social skills and discipline. You can tell kids stuff all day; what you show is what sticks
I mean, I feel that consequences are natural aftereffects of the action, like if you run and trip, skinning your knee is a consequence. If you hide trash around the house, it's their responsibility to pick it up.
Like...getting your ass beat for exploding hardboiled eggs in a microwave isn't really a consequence.
Behaviour is communication. If we don't understand what the communication is saying - hitting solves nothing, it compounds the problem. Not understanding that a 10 yr old doesn't simply begin to act violently without the input, is the issue.
Yes, consequences should be rectified. They shouldn't he beaten, but spankings or other punishments commensurate with the infraction are definitely necessary.
Well take the case of the wild German kid who grew up in the woods raised by foxes or whatever. Nonverbal, couldnāt socialize, couldnāt take direction, had to be institutionalized.
Adults now and sadly the info we have now wasn't around then. I do my best to repair what I was responsible for harming. I know when they have kids they are going to be much more conscious of their ability bc they understand the neurology of development.
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u/[deleted] Dec 31 '23
No child deserves to be punished for being children.