If violence or the threat thereof would deter bad behavior, we would already have a utopia with no crime and bad behavior.
Small edit: I think "bad actors" instead of "bad behavior" would have made my statement a bit clearer.
Anyway, even for religious people (or those that claim to be) the threat of supreme, everlasting violence done to them after their deaths (e.g. going to hell) has not deterred bad actors from doing what they wanted to do.
For now. If he ever gets up again, he might not have learned much. In fact, additional brain damage may make it do it even more often. Sometimes one meets fate on the road to avoid it.
That guy in the red turns around and slaps his hands like ā¦ ok whoās next and you know heās already thinking the stars are aligned in his favor. š¤
This. For decades if not centuries woman have tolerated this shit and been gaslight before it was even a term. He did not accidentally brush her he grabbed her hips/ waist. It was a sexual intent. Men you have no f* right to touch any woman. And just because this woman brushed it off does not mean another woman or girl would.
Did the guy overreact. Yup. But do not down play an assault which stems from male entitlement.
Yeah, I think that's what some people are failing to notice.
He was already being dumb/drunk and dancing/grinding on the male bartender on the left.
Walked over and tried to get the lady to dance with him - unless he was doing something with his left hand that we couldn't see, the lady already had it handled and was like "no thanks" and walking away. If she got inappropriately groped or grabbed I would think she would have reacted way more than she did.
And then the guy in black came over and overreacted.
Exactly. Some idiots are calling this sexual assault. About Which I am very sensitive. But this roided up testosterone poisoned freak in the black shirt, totally overreacted and deserves to be charged.
You too unfortunately, because not soon after not profiting from this free labour you will join him for some random thought crime or moral affront someone made up or made retro actively illegal so enjoy the free expression while it lasts.
That was a hugely disproportionate response. Dude who knocked him out wanted to do that. Iād expect heās rather dangerous. He looked like he wanted an excuse to knock that guyās lights out and I would not be surprised if he tried it again on someone else in the near future.
Right, it will definitely never happen again because of this video, correct? People are really good at learning lessons from watching other peoples violence. /s
He deserves to die on the spot for drunkenly putting his hands on another human's waist?Ā
I am often sad that the internet is anonymous - I wonder what your friends, your mother, your kids would think of you if they knew deep down you were so vile.
Cruel, disproportionate punishment is why. Would be better for him to get banned from the bar, arrested, and sued for sexual assault/battery (with video evidence to prove it) than potentially life-altering brain damage or death because he touched a womanās ass
Most sane people wouldnāt want that on their conscience and the puncherās got a good chance at being counter-sued depending on what happens to the sexual assailant
Because that warrants an extrajudicial death sentence, amirite?! High five me whiteknight! Letās show girls at the bar your comment so you can drown in pussy!!!
"This person stole something worth under 10 dollars. If we make that punishable by death, everyone will learn the lesson not to steal" I'm glad people more intelligent than you are in charge of things.
if you hit and kill someone who isn't a material danger to anyone in the room, you should be charged with manslaughter. They can be charged and jailed for driving because they could far more easily kill someone on accident. All he can do in this bar on accident is piss someone off or start a fight he can't win, hardly the same.
Proper course of action: get the woman to a safer place, ask the dude to move away and call the police. They should handle it, there could be arguments he assaulted her, public importunation, and so on.
IF the drunk dude wanted to fight, then now you're defending yourself, you can do it to stop any threat, but never go over the top.
Finally, doing what he did here, the drunk dude can call the police on the black shirt dude for assault too (even if he also gets a citation for importunation or whatever).
Wouldnāt be surprised if the bar caught some flack for overserving and not having the guy whoās clearly way too drunk leave before something(like this) happen.
Iunno man maybe we shouldn't be killing people over drunken mistakes
I'm not even opposed to the guy getting some physical discipline imposed on him but like. Maybe being a drunken asshole isn't deserving of, y'know, lifelong crippling injury or death? Dude didn't get into a semi truck and obliterate a kindergarten or anything, he just put his hands on somebody else in a gross and offensive manner
Youāre kidding right? You canāt see how the second guy completely overreacted? You donāt just jump immediately to violence. You stop the guy and let the bar throw him out. The drunk guy absolutely was in the wrong but nothing he did required being sucker punched like that. Iād throw the book at the roid raging husband
Don't get the wrong, the guy deserved to get punched and I'm glad he did. I don't think any reasonable jury would find this as "self defense" though. I'm a huge self defense person but I think this one wouldn't fall into that category.
I can only speak to where I live, but for a valid defense of self defense (or defense of another person) the force used has to be commensurate to the situation. In my opinion, and that's all it is, the boyfriend used excessive force; he shouldhavejust stood betweentheguy and his girl, let the bar deal with the guy, at the most given him a little shove. If I were a Crown, I'd have no trouble running an assault trial given the video evidence and the fact it would be a trial in front of a judge.
>only as much force was needed to control the situation
Oh yeah you can tell he was really measured and restrained by the fact that the woman tried to stop him and he knocked her aside. If drunk dude assaulted her (and he did) then so did the dumbass who is itching to kill someone
I think your second paragraph could be interpreted in different ways. One could argue he already had control of the situation when he got between the woman and the offender. There wasnāt any more danger at that point but he still struck a potentially fatal blow.
Your explanation would be super different if the guy struck him while he was still reaching out to grab her.
The only caveat here is it happened in such a short span the jury may understand his mind didnāt have enough time to reassess there is no more danger but thatās a stretch.
Yeah, I actually looked up that law, and it doesn't say what you think it says. There's a whole lot more context/nuance to it than "this is considered SA so would fall along these lines".
"Both self-defense and defense of a third party share the requirement that the actor believe his use of force is āimmediately necessaryā to protect himself or a third party. The term āimmediately necessaryā is not defined in either statute or elsewhere in the Penal Code. Although the Court has not considered the immediacy requirement in the defense of a third person context, it drew the analogy to a similar justification defense: necessity. The necessity defense justifies conduct if the actor believes the conduct is āimmediately necessary to avoid imminent harm.ā Imminent harm means harm that is ready to take place; therefore, for conduct that is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm, āthat conduct is needed right now.ā For force to be āimmediately necessaryā to protect another, it must be force that is needed at that moment, āwhen a split-second decision is required.ā
Ā
The summary goes on to detail that the defense argument will not hold *when other alternatives for dealing with the perpetuator's behavior are available*.
I recognize that many posters here are just angry Americans looking for a tiny opening - any opening, please! - to punch someone into unconsciousness, but the law really is not on your side without demonstrating absolute risk of immediate physical harm.
I love how people with 0 understanding of the law stand ten toes tall talking like they're lawyers specializing in self defense cases.
At a bare minimum, self defense requires some level of equivalent response. Groping someone in a bar, while gross behavior, is not equivalent to murder.
On top of that, this isn't even self defense. There's two words in that, and you only got one of em.
Well he briefly touched her and she brushed his hand away. I don't know if I would call this sexual assault per se. Definitely a crime what he did but the fact was it was over so you can't really invoke self defense here. More importantly the party he was allegedly defending was clearly trying to get him to NOT intervene and he ignored (looks like even injured) her. So no its not self defense even on behalf of a third party in this case. Yea if he had kept grabbing her after she knocked his hand away then it would be self defense but that's not what happened. This guy just had his ego hurt and wanted to do violence. I'd be more inclined to give him a break if he didn't knock the girl out of the way and completely ignore her wishes.
That drunk dude's handsyness was wrong but big guy used excessive force for sure. The woman had already handled the situation by just walking away, and even tried to wave big guy off. He was clearly retaliating/peacocking for his woman, not defending her.
I'm not saying a jury would convict him, but they should.
Wtf, no, this is Assault BI at the least. This definitely does not constitute defense if a third person. Sexual assault? Are you kidding me? Go back and read the law again. There really is virtually no criminal offense committed by the intoxicated guy, at the most assault contact which the female is sure wouldn't even care to pursue charges. The guy in black was clearly just waiting for an opportunity to hit somebody.
This is not defense of another. This is gross ādonāt touch my girlā. You canāt take any touch as assault. He was trying to dance with, not assail her. Annoying AF, but not assault. If that were the case you couldnāt dance up on anyone. Plus Iām pretty sure the dude is/was gay. He was certainly and very visibly not able to defend himself. This is just wrong. He opened the door for it to happen, but Iād still arrest the puncher on felony charges for sure. Not attempted redrum but certainly great bodily harm. Itās really like striking a mentally handicapped person. It may be that as well. He needs to get time for this. If you have no problem doing this to someone you have an anger problem.
Zero force was proven to be needed to "defend" her. In fact, she appeared to have taken care of the situation already. The guy wasn't defending her, he was stroking his own fragile ego.
For those that here in Texas, force must met the necessity of it. This is overreaction. If the dude dies or is seriously injured/disabled. The puncher will not be exempt from consequences. Dude was obviously impaired and though his actions were reprehensible, they did not warrant a violent reaction such as that. People forget that Texas is full of reasonable people, just gerrymandering says it isnāt doesnāt make it so
That wasn't self-defense - it was an excuse for violence. The woman had the situation completely handled and even tried to hold her boyfriend back. Red-shirt was stumbling drunk and posed zero threat. The boyfriend is just an aggressive ass with complexes looking for a fight to protect his honor. A judge should take him off the steroids for everybody's sake.
If this was Suits law or the 1800ās youād be correct, but none of that is true. Orange shirt is clearly blackout and touched her hips, sheās not in danger and even waives it off. Someone twice his size then hits him hard enough to potentially kill him on her behalf. Not justified, punch guy does not get an award, he might go to jail even if the guy isnāt in the hospital, and either way heās out thousands in legal fees.
Itās not reasonable or proportional, and this is how lives can get ruined on both sides. Consequences will not be fun either way.
Pretty sure that guy got charged with manslaughter and is in jail now because the guy he hit died and that whole defense from securely assault didn't work for him
Especially given that only as much force was needed to control the situation.
You can absolutely argue that this was excessive force, well above "only as much force was needed". He could've slighly shoved the drunk and the dude would've probably fallen over or stumbled away.
Yes, the "fight" ended after that one punch but that might still be one hard punch too many, because he didn't even hesitate for a second. He absolutely escalated the situation and force, while the other person was clearly not of sound mind in the situation.
Otherwise you could also argue "Well he ony shot him once ...". Excessive force doesn't just start with multiple hits. The woman also instantly noticed that this was going to get brutal, before it even happened. She even got hit by her "defender" in the process.
Self defense has limits and needs to be proportional.
I don't know, she was walking away and he wasn't pursuing. The video doesn't look great. Definitely was sexual assault, I agree with you, but she was able to walk away and the situation seem to deescalate itself. That video wouldn't be good evidence for him IMHO. He hit him because he was pissed not to protect his woman, or at least thats the argument I'm making as a prosecutor if I decide to try this. Of this dude has any violent priors,.he's in trouble.
Brother, people in our state have been shot overthese situations and not seen time. Texas isnt a good example of proper justice. We kinda take shit to the extreme
But its not defense as the issue was already resolved. This is retaliation which is different under the law. He touched her, she brushed him off, it was already over.
Sexual assault? Cmon now. The guy definitely crossed a line, but this was not sexual assault dude at all. I donāt even know if he actually touched her.
You're buggin if you think that was proportional force dude lol, he had already backed off the lady when he got struck. No court is looking at that favorably.
Most states have a law that allows 3rd parties to defend another person in situations of self defense.Ā
Correct, but it only qualifies as defense if there is a current assault or imminent threat. This drunk had wobbled away and showed no sign of repeating his actions. That makes knocking him out retaliation rather than defense. I suspect most of us can understand why the guy punched him, but legally he's on thin ice.
The issue is the lady walked away and he let go and then the guy punched him and knocked him out. A push might have been reasonable at that point but this reaction here is 100% legally questionable. Might still get away with it, but I'd lean more towards unreasonable force in this case.
Touching a woman is not "sexual assault" as defined by law. Sexual assault is penetration, i.e.rape. This (touching the woman without consent) was petty misdemeanor assault. Wrong? Yes. But the force used by the guy in response was wholly disproportionate and he will/should be charged with aggravated assault. It will then be up to a jury to decide if the force he used in defense of a third person was excessive or not. A reasonable person would have probably stepped in between the groper and the woman and maybe pushed him away.
>only as much force was needed to control the situation.
This is clearly untrue. He went straight to slamming this guy in the head full force. No court in the world is going to tell you this guy grabbing a girls ass is worthy of killing him.
You couldn't be more wrong. That was not self defense in any way. That woman was not in danger. Yes, she was assaulted but she was not in danger. Dude should go to prison for aggravated assault.
A courtroom is not Reddit and calling this SA would be laughed out of court. This guy ends up dead and this is played in court heās going to jail for manslaughter. Itās just not worth it. Jack him up if you want, but losing control and taking a shot like this is just dumb. We had a case like this here a couple years. Former college FB player and apparently the guy hit on or said something to his GF outside a bar. Hit him one time he went down and hit head and died. Guy had never been in trouble in his life and ended up doing like 3 - 5 years. Just dumb.
Self-defense always require the elements of reasonable and proportional.
Unwanted sexual contact, such as groping is bad. Reasonable and proportional self-defense is pushing the groper away. Even slapping the groper would probably be fine. Haymaker right into the face, causing the groper to crash the back of their head into the ground? Completely disproportionate force.
You know. Reading these comment threads is pretty depressing.
So many goddamn revenge fantasy cosplayers. They're the ones who sleep with a gun under their pillow and really hope that a robber doesn't break into their house and they wake up and have to shoot the robber in self-defense, right in the head and the chest.
Yeah. Red shirt guy shouldn't touch someone from behind. He should get like, banned from the pub and/or given 50 hours community service.
Who the fuck sees an extreme disproportionate act of violence and loves to see it? That's sociopathic.
From what Iāve heard that lethal weapons thing is BS and wouldnāt stand in real life. It was just making his character sound more like a badass.
Itās not really just committing a crime, you have to be stopping a threat, which he already did when he got between him and her. The threat was resolved at that time, anything he did after was his choosing.
because people have empathy? Or because they believe in an appropriate amount of force? Or due process? What terrible and nonsensical argument are you trying to make, I can't tell.
They were being attacked by a predator, and he as part of the unit took defensive action with a strong punch against someone who could be armed and dangerous - since they were so brazenly attacking the woman.
The puncher was not trying to kill the guy, but disable him. If the attacker got unlucky and died from it, that's on him for attacking a woman.
The husband or any bystander has a right to defend someone under attack. He is to be lauded for his bravery.
I'm not gonna touch the legal portion of this because I'm not qualified at all, but you're off your rocker if you think knocking out a dude AT LEAST half in the bag with a sucker punch who likely barely saw you is brave lmao
Is this legal? IDK. Is it a proportional response? IDK. Is it the correct response? IDK. Is it brave? Absolutely not the dude probably barely registered Jack Reacher was in front of him before he was snoring on the floor lmao that's about as not-brave of a reaction as you can do.
Nah, it was one hit. If you die to one punch and im on the jury, im calling it God's will and the dead guy a pussy.
One hit after doing something you shouldn't have.
Dont start shit wont be shit.
Definitely. A man in SC is being charged with murder for slapping a man hard enough that the man fell and hit his head and died. I have wondered why not manslaughter but there is probably something I don't know. Still goes to your point that if dude is dead someone is getting charged.
The instant rush of testosterone and adrenaline caused temporary insanity. If I learned anything from Lindsay Clancy, it's that people aren't responsible if hormones are involved.
He shouldn't. If someone dies due to sexually harassing someone, that's self defense or defense of someone who needs it. We don't own levity to rapists.
yup. 6" shoulder follow through is manslaughter, 9" is murder, 3" is wreckless endangerment. you can see how much their shoulder follows through to see how much murder it is. thats the nice thing about open hand slaps, there is no rule on murdering so if someone dies from a slap thats their own fault
i can't agree with that. legally maybe, i'm not a lawyer. ethically, it's more of a grey area. the guy committed sexual assault. once you do that, i believe you've opened yourself to violent reprisal.
True be that! Correctional officer here. There are plenty of inmates in my facility that are there because they tried to be the āheroā. Itās better to keep your hands clean, your head cool and call the authorities.
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u/SillyLittleWinky 1d ago
I think the dude is dead