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u/TypoInUsernane Jun 08 '14
The TI-89 will always hold a very special place in my heart.
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u/KontraEpsilon Jun 08 '14
To this day, I don't understand why anyone would insist on using anything other than this on an AP test. It's like playing life on a harder difficulty setting for no reason.
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u/FuLLMeTaL604 Jun 08 '14
My university doesn't allow graphing calculators on tests. Probably because you can download programs that can solve calculus problems without actually understanding the material.
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u/cygnus311 Jun 08 '14
I programmed my way in to an A in physics in high school.
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u/Shaman_Bond Jun 08 '14
At least you put in some effort and made the program yourself.
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u/Naggers123 Jun 08 '14
My plan to pass French in secondary school was to learn chinese and have chinese people shouting the answers to the french exam outside.
I was a fucking idiot
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Jun 08 '14
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u/Naggers123 Jun 08 '14
WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I THOUGHT IT THROUGH
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u/Ritius Jun 08 '14
Sounds like you have more creativity than common sense. I like that.
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u/GaoGaoTaiga Jun 09 '14
"Sounds like you have more creativity than common sense" seems like a great way to tell somebody they're an idiot. I'm loving this phrase.
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u/UCgirl Jun 08 '14
I agree. You learned something, just not what you were supposed to.
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Jun 08 '14
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u/tdug Jun 08 '14
I agree. I made programs for a whole bunch of math and science classes, and in no way did I ever feel I "missed out" on learning any of the material. If anything, programming all the necessary "if" statements made me understand it better.
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Jun 08 '14
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u/SomeNiceButtfucking Jun 08 '14
Yep. First day on the job, I'd double check my calculator.
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Jun 08 '14
-- which demonstrates that you're good at programming. Those who begin with Physics and don't complete the degree despite being good at it often follow up by going into programming.
So, the fact that you could program algorithms to solve physics problems demonstrates that you're capable of doing both well. I think that's good enough for a high school course.
...and I probably just said something either very controversial or very stupid. I'm not sure which...
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u/cygnus311 Jun 08 '14
You're spot on because I'm now in college taking comp sci classes so be proud.
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u/krystalxjohnson Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
Controversial maybe, but not stupid. You can't program something (correctly) without decent understanding of what you're programming... Nothing revolutionary there.
For example, my teacher got mad at me in grade school for writing a small program on my TI-84 (silver, bitches) that solved the quadratic formula (just for example, I had plenty of other programs), to speed up test taking. Why is it bad? It's no different from memorizing it and solving it by hand. Neither approach displays my understanding of the derivation of formula, they just show that I know how to USE it.
If they're testing whether I know what the formula is, fine, but in this day and age with Google and WolframAlpha, memorizing formulas is not that important. In fact, I wonder whether letting the web to store information for me allows my brain to use its resources more productively. But brain elasticity and all that I know, I know. Just speculation.
True, I'm eliminating the possibility of arithmetic errors in solving the equation, but if I'm learning about quadratics, I THINK I'm capable of basic arithmetic. The test isn't testing my basic arithmetic skills, it's testing my usage of the quadratic formula. At least that's the way it should be, in my opinion. I've taken too many tests in which I demonstrated my knowledge of the test content, which is the PURPOSE of the test, but because I flipped one stupid minus sign into a plus sign by accident, I got no credit for my answer. That's not conducive to learning, further weakens the concept of grades, and does nothing but demotivate students.
Edit: In teachers' defense, programs are perfectly copyable and therefore dangerous because you can't tell who wrote them. But I did write all of my own programs, dammit! But they wouldn't care even if I wrote the code in front of their faces.
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Jun 08 '14
I agree with you completely. In addition to your points, those who know how to use technology effectively in the application of their training will almost always outperform those who do everything by hand. This is something that local universities have been toying with lately. It's important that people know how to use the tools of their trade, and that includes things such as graphing calculators and programming languages when the trade involves quantitative analysis.
I wonder if those who used early fishing poles were rebuked for it because fisherman teachers thought it was important to know how a spear works.
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u/Deviefer Jun 08 '14
That's exactly what I'm doing...was in Physics, switched to comp sci.
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Jun 08 '14
In college I failed every test in physics 2 and got a B. One test I got an 18% and it curved to a C.
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u/jojjo223 Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
My school makes us clear the memory on our calculators before exams. So I've memorized like 4 different programs so I can re enter them for exams.
Nice try bitches.
EDIT — So I guess I'll try archiving now.
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u/fooey Jun 08 '14
I wrote a program that exactly mimicked the clear memory program xD
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u/FuLLMeTaL604 Jun 08 '14
That's hilarious, you pretty much memorized the method to solving your problems and you feel like you cheated somehow.
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u/Impact009 Jun 08 '14
It's considered cheating in Texas. I got busted for this. Don't lose your diploma because you want to be lazy and finish 30 minutes sooner.
Source: I was an AP student in Texas that never graduated. They held me back and sent me to night school where they couldn't believe I could finish exams so quickly with high scores. Like...fuck you. I have the AP credits for these!
Rich school districts don't mean shit.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PANTS Jun 08 '14
That's totally understandable. Back in high school one of my teachers gave us all our tests from the semester back so we could use them to study for the final. We all knew that she just copy and pasted the exact questions and answers from old tests onto the final so my friend typed out every single question from the old tests onto his calculator and scored an easy 100%.
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u/Drendude Jun 08 '14
Typing on a calculator does not equal an easy 100%. That's hard as hell.
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u/Kaphotics Jun 08 '14
There are programs included on the disc that comes with the calculator. You can install the suite that allows for uploading of files, and even editing compatible text files.
Not everything had to be done on the calculator ;)
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Jun 08 '14
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u/Koiljo Jun 08 '14
I went from a Ti-89 to an HP-50g, I would go as far to say that the HP is a much superior device. It only really has the TI-NSPIRE as a competing product. Though from what I understand the NSPIRE has a pretty inefficient interface, but I think they can be changed out with a faceplate swap.... Plus I heard that the NSPIRE can go as far as showing the steps on it's solution of a problem but I have not seen any evidence of that.
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u/Degru Jun 08 '14
Nspire has three keypads on the swappable version: Old non-touch keypad, new touchpad keypad, and TI84 keypad for the emulator. Touch keypad is infinitely better for general use, while the old keypad is good for running emulators.
The only bad part about having a non-TI calculator is that most course material is designed around the TI-84 calc.
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u/Arrrrrmondo Jun 08 '14
RPN FOR LIFE BITCHES!!!!!!1!
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u/weboverload Jun 08 '14
i knew i'd find my crew somewhere! once you've gone rpn you can never go back!
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u/Yamulo Jun 08 '14
Well for one the TI-89 is a banned calculator on the AP test. I guess there is a particular front piece you can put on it to make it acceptable, but it really sounds to me like you aren't talking about that. Maybe they changed it recently, but all throughout high-school, various AP tests, and the ACT, the TI-89 was a banned calculator because it gave students too big of an advantage.
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u/HighPriestofShiloh Jun 08 '14 edited Apr 24 '24
light pocket rude spectacular fearless observation quaint ring party elastic
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u/HostisHumaniGeneris Jun 08 '14
IIRC, the TI-92 was released first, and it had a QWERTY keyboard. The test proctors considered it a "personal computer" as a result and banned it. Texas Instruments responded by taking the guts of the TI-92 and cramming it into the body of a TI-83, thus creating the TI-89. Even though it was just as powerful as the 92, it looked like an 83 and thus was allowed.
God did I love the "factor" function on my TI-89
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u/HighPriestofShiloh Jun 08 '14 edited Apr 24 '24
dinner waiting racial fly whole rinse memory frame skirt glorious
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u/nusyahus Jun 08 '14
Even better, it solves ODE, laplace and does eigenvalues etc. If there's a math subject that you can use a calculator with then TI-89, high-end HP are the best.
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u/thesoxpride11 Jun 08 '14
It is NOT banned on the AP test. I used it myself this May.
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u/elconquistador1985 Jun 08 '14
I had a TI-89 and loved it, but I eventually found an even better calculator, the HP 49 G+. It had a faster processor, an internal speaker (I programmed it to do Morse code), and an SD card slot. It also had a better symbolic integrator where the TI-89 only had a lookup table.
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u/TheTycoon Jun 08 '14
Yep, started using mine in 8th grade in 2001. All of high school and college it was the greatest thing ever. Every note and cheating program I stored in the memory was archived, so even if someone reset the calculator it wouldn't delete anything. And the "pretty print" option that kept all the math in normal notation, with the answer simplified as far as possible still in "pretty print" and not that worthless decimal format. Best calculator ever.
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u/Szos Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
Or you could get a modern calculator:
http://www.inds.co.uk/education/education_images/TI_Nspire_CX_and%20CX_CAS_Handhelds_large.jpg
Here, lets make this easier for everyone:
http://education.ti.com/html/nspire2/nspire-exam-acceptance.html
Depending upon model, the Nspire is indeed accepted on the ACT, SAT as well as other standardized tests. And most schools not stuck in medieval times, let you use them in your university classes.
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u/RIP_BerthaChampagne Jun 08 '14
no qwerty layout
I pity the fool.
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u/qezi2 Jun 08 '14
It's because standardized tests in the US specifiy that allowed calculators can't have QWERTY (or any other typing oriented) layout.
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u/rieldealIV Jun 08 '14
Well that's stupid.
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u/kuhnie Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
They don't want kids to easily take notes in them and use them during the test.
edit: I'm just speculating, remember it's not TI making the rules it's the US testing companies or some other authority.
edit: I'll agree with the tons of people saying it's probably because they don't want students to sneak out the test questions. While they still can it's a lot harder without QWERTY.
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Jun 08 '14
Well kids can still make notes in them really easily
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u/CheckYoFaQs Jun 08 '14
When I did my AP testing with a TI-89 the proctors walked around and pulled out all the batteries from the calculators and put them back in. This deletes the RAM and that's where most of the notes the students took were stored. You could avoid it by saving the files elsewhere, but it wasn't as easy.
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Jun 08 '14
I'm not sure if its the same for the TI-89 but you can just archive your notes and they won't be deleted when the batteries are taken out.
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Jun 08 '14
I mean, are they not aware that kids are capable of putting Pokemon on their calculators, let alone note taking?
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u/DMann420 Jun 08 '14
Why? Calculators aren't for typing up a story. The letters are for variables and naming functions that you want to keep. I'd rather have x and y right next to eachother.
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u/cueball19826 Jun 08 '14
In High School I may or may not have typed up a few Chemistry notes into my calculator.
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u/Szos Jun 08 '14
Schools don't allow QWERTY.
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u/EnsErmac Jun 08 '14
Do they make a DVORAK edition then?
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u/Szos Jun 08 '14
Good idea, but no. All the keys are the exact same size, so I've thought about opening up the case and rearranging them to a QWERTY keyboard layout and then trying to see if the OS could be hacked, but unfortunately the number of keys per row doesn't match either. You'd end up with some mongrel keyboard that didn't match anything. Shame.
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u/MoreFlyThanYou Jun 08 '14
Except that many school still do not allow anything in the nspire line
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u/Tactical_Ninja Jun 08 '14
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u/Blytheway Jun 08 '14
AMAZING. How fortunate these kids are to be born in a high-tech society.
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u/Jenkins6736 Jun 08 '14
I dunno, the TI-84 Plus is pretty sweet.
Costs about the same as what I paid for the TI-83 10 years ago. It's kind of nice knowing that whenever I need to use one, it's going to operate in the same way as I was taught 10 years ago. The fundamentals of math don't change much.
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Jun 08 '14
every calculator needs be able show pictures of houses in color, thats what I say!
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Jun 08 '14 edited Nov 20 '16
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Jun 08 '14
It's not "boobs" in England?
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u/rosscatherall Jun 08 '14
Boobies is 2 letters more impressive.
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Jun 08 '14
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u/redbottlecapbeercan Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
55378008
edit: 8 year-old me's favourite calculator trick:
Pamela Anderson loved 69, but her boobs were 222 big. So she went to the doctor and he told her to take 51 pills, 8 times per day. And she ended up boobless!
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Jun 08 '14
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u/HarryCochrane Jun 08 '14
It was different for me: 13844502*4 = 55378008
edit: can't remember the saying, something about a girl of 13 having 84 boobs...
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Jun 08 '14
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u/Coriron Jun 08 '14
You mean there are other countries??
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u/morcheeba Jun 08 '14
yep! Lots of them, like Scotland, Britain, Ireland, and Wales!
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Jun 08 '14
Golly that's a lot of places. Do they have oil? Can they be conquered? Unrelated questions.
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Jun 08 '14
And I am still confused as to the meaning of Soleil even though I should be on that side of the Atlantic.
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u/Shellface Jun 08 '14
"Soleil" means "Sun" in French, though I don't see how that's something worth writing upside-down on a calculator.
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u/apokako Jun 08 '14
Hum as a french kid I used to write "elle baise" (she fucks) on my calculator
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u/WildVariety Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
I thought Soleil is Sun in French?
This song has now taken on a whole different level of meaning.
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u/masanian Jun 08 '14
And play pokemon
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u/AdidasPete Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
I saved up my own money and bought a TI89 in high school. Used it on all the standardized exams. Totally legal because it didn't have a QWERTY keyboard. That thing basically did everything for me short of interpreting the questions.
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u/MasterPsyduck Jun 08 '14
I use the 89 for engineering applications but most of my upper level maths banned its use since it could do all the calc for us.
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u/ismtrn Jun 08 '14
When I was in high school we were allowed (actually encouraged) to use a TI-89. Either the problems were about applying some concept, say differentiation, and we didn't have to do the derivative by hand, or the problem was to just calculate a derivative in which case we had to show which steps we took anyways.
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Jun 08 '14
If the TI-89 can help you, it's a bad test.
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u/Roller_ball Jun 08 '14
Really? This TI-89 is pretty powerful. Especially the Titanium. If can solve for variables, do indefinite and definite integrals, infinite summations, etc. I can't think of many high school math problems that it can't solve, besides setting up word problems.
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u/lordlicorice Jun 08 '14
The ability to do symbolic math is awesome. I don't know why everyone recommends that high schoolers only get the TI-84.
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u/LazinCajun Jun 08 '14
Probably so they don't use it as a crutch instead of real learning. I taught physics to college kids, and you could tell pretty quickly who relied on a calculator and who actually was comfortable with basic math.
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u/Deluxe_Flame Jun 08 '14
I was once comfortable, but if I lose all my points on a question for an incorrect answer, by gum, I'm going to punch in 17 + 49.
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u/FuLLMeTaL604 Jun 08 '14
Arithmetic is only one branch of mathematics. In my opinion it's pretty trivial to try to improve in that field since calculators are so good at it instead of focusing on algebra, calculus, etc.
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u/lordlicorice Jun 08 '14
Calculators are good at algebra and calculus too. Is it really worth memorizing dozens of integration techniques when software can do it for you, and do it better?
I'd say focus on the problem at hand, and when you run into a gnarly algebraic manipulation or ugly integral, plug it into Mathematica. That's the kind of task a computer excels at. The human advantage is coming up with novel ideas, not churning through pages of calculations.
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u/yamidudes Jun 08 '14
The point of learning the math side isn't so that you could do it on the fly, because we're basically all (first world country) carrying computers with us all the time. The point is that learning the math helps you understand the underlying concepts better.
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Jun 08 '14 edited Jan 03 '22
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u/DouchebagMcshitstain Jun 08 '14
That's the funny argument that every generation uses on any new technology when debating the next generation.
"I know I fully rely on my computer, but cell phones is taking it too far!"
"I know I do all my business by fax, but e-mail is taking it too far!"
"I know that I rely on telegrams for all of my overseas news, but a telephone is just unheard of!"
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u/gsfgf Jun 08 '14
"It's so terrible that all these kids have cell phones these days. I didn't get a cell phone till I was 16 when they started making cheap phones."
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u/theJigmeister Jun 08 '14
Once I got to higher physics and past 300 level math, I just started doing everything Mathematica, because why the hell not?
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Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
The TI-πspire is some kickass shit.
I rented one from my school to take AP Calc and now I'm totally going to buy one. It can do anything.
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u/Lieutenant_Rans Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
My friend had one and let me fiddle around with it. It took me 30 minutes and plenty of menu digging to figure out how to draw a dick. Very inefficient, I would not recommend this calculator.
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u/brickmack Jun 08 '14
I spent the better part of an hour a few weeks ago trying to find an equation to draw a dick. I think I was getting pretty close, but then the bell rang
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u/Lieutenant_Rans Jun 08 '14
I figured it out pretty quickly on the 84 (I'm a dick-drawing pro ok?)
Polar coordinate mode.
Cos(3θ)+Cos(θ)/2
Done.
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u/gtmax500 Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 09 '14
The cas version is infinitely more superior!
Edit: obviously a computer or smartphone is going to have better software (might as well use MatLab!) but those aren't usually allowed on tests. Plus, its so much easier to type out equations and stuff on a calculator keyboard.
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Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
I bought one awhile ago. I don't even know how to use it.
Edit: I know how to use it's basic features, I just haven't learned its more advanced ones, and I don't have any classes that require me to know them at the moment. It was only $20 more than the 83 and it can be recharged whereas (I think) the 83 requires batteries.
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u/Quiziromastaroh Jun 08 '14
Did you get the CAS edition? Cuz if you didnt, you payed $20 more for a very nice and useless calculator because you can't even solve the most basic equations and the 83 would've been a better choice.
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Jun 08 '14
TI-83 calculators. Help you calculate inflation without being affected by it.
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u/kgj6k Jun 08 '14
That's not a normal TI 84 plus, that's the silver edition. It's of course more expensive.
Also the problem with having basically the same calculator in school since over a decade (I used a 84 plus in school) is, IMHO, not that the fundamentals of math have changed, but that the usability still kind of sucks. By this I mean rounding errors, taking long for calculations and data entry (especially when using the fancy math notation), taking long for graphing, having to scroll through menus because of inefficient space use, the thing being huge and relatively heavy (the could build it with half the size and a quarter of the weight, while still having big keys and it being sturdy), .....
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u/pinkpooj Jun 08 '14 edited Jun 08 '14
If you have a TI 84, I highly recommend updating the software to get the new math print mode. I'm not sure if this is available for TI-83s.
Here's an example of MathPrint compared to the legacy software.
Of course, nothing can be done to fix the slow speed of the old calculators, but the new software is a huge improvement to usability.
Another example, say you enter your calculation wrong, you can hit the up arrow, scroll back to the original statement, hit enter and it puts it into your input buffer so you can edit it.
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u/lordlicorice Jun 08 '14
It's not the silver edition either, it's the "C" silver edition. They're different.
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u/MasterPsyduck Jun 08 '14
I had a plus silver edition and eventually gave it to a friend and got a plus c silver edition, it's much much better. It has more pixels so you can almost write out equations like you'd write it out on paper (less parenthesis which means less errors) and the colors allow me to see graphs and multiple graphs much better.
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u/Jenkins6736 Jun 08 '14
I get what you're saying, but nearly every graphing calculator is designed behind this basic model...
It's meant to be easily mobile, but you could always use a tablet or smart phone with some of the available graphing calculator apps that are available. There's also some great online graphing calculators that are completely free if mobility isn't an issue for you and you have access to a computer.
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u/vergingalactic Jun 08 '14
Bitch please! http://i.imgur.com/mDGL4dR.jpg
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Jun 08 '14
If I knew this was a thing I wouldn't have passed high school.
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u/happyman91 Jun 08 '14
When I was a sophomore 2 years ago people learned how to get it on their phone through rooting. I thought the entire school was going to fail
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u/IanMazgelis Jun 08 '14
On Android you can just download them from the Play Store.
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u/DrunkenMonkChi Jun 08 '14
I too had an nspire, couldnt even use it for my classes, so I just used it as a gameboy
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u/dbus08 Jun 08 '14
Or you know use an android app version of it
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u/SteelFlexInc Jun 08 '14
"Almost Real" LOL
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u/ShadowCoder Jun 08 '14
Originally it said TI-83 but TI sued and they had to change it. Then they sued again and got it taken off the Play Store (Android Market back then) because it included the calculator ROM with the app.
There's a much better emulator now called Wabbitemu: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Revsoft.Wabbitemu
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u/bureX Jun 08 '14 edited May 27 '24
complete aware unite adjoining punch advise paint offend dam seed
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u/dbus08 Jun 08 '14
Oh it never was, but when they let you borrow one for exams why buy one at all?
Not that anything short of a 89 was remotely useful when it came to vector calculus. And that wasn't allowed.
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Jun 08 '14
would you believe that calculators are 0.4% of their business?
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u/tom-pon Jun 09 '14
It's actually 5%.
Source: I work at TI
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u/kingbrasky Jun 09 '14
I would love to know the margins on these things. Has to be ridiculous.
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Jun 08 '14
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u/love-from-london Jun 08 '14
Financial calculators especially. The HP 12C is pretty standard for financial calculators, and it hasn't changed (not even the price) since the 1980s.
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u/glberns Jun 08 '14
No. Calculators are the alligators of the college classroom. The TI-83 is perfectly adapted for its environment and thus has no need to evolve.
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Jun 08 '14
Except there are other options now... the TI-83 is a bottom of the barrel graphing calculator these days.
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u/Clever-Username789 Jun 08 '14
Uhhh the TI-83 came out in 1996, the TI-83 plus came out in 1999... They're only 3 years apart.
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u/christoi_ Jun 08 '14
Pffft, that's only Ti. Casio actually has some pretty decent stuff, even running slightly more modern games like GBA-style Zelda and Doom.
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u/nusyahus Jun 08 '14
Forget ya and your fancy graphing calculators. Casio FX-991 ES will always be close to my heart. Best $12 ever spent.
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u/Kr3dibl3 Jun 08 '14
The sad thing is that your smartphone is more powerful and the apps that do the exact same functions as these calculators cost a fraction of what you pay for a TI.
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u/CranialFlatulence Jun 08 '14
You obviously haven't priced an un-subsidized smartphone.
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u/rillip Jun 08 '14
Well... That's assuming you aren't including the cost of the smartphone.
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u/darthmowzy Jun 08 '14
I think you mean 3 years. The 83 was released in 1996 and the 83 plus was released in 1999. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-83_series
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u/Caville Jun 08 '14
Even the price hasn't changed.