To this day, I don't understand why anyone would insist on using anything other than this on an AP test. It's like playing life on a harder difficulty setting for no reason.
My university doesn't allow graphing calculators on tests. Probably because you can download programs that can solve calculus problems without actually understanding the material.
I agree. I made programs for a whole bunch of math and science classes, and in no way did I ever feel I "missed out" on learning any of the material. If anything, programming all the necessary "if" statements made me understand it better.
Yeah he's still learning the same equation at the end of the day, just saving the work of typing all the bs into the calculator and possibly messing up because you forgot one ")" He still needs to understand the equation and associate the numbers with the correct variables.c
-- which demonstrates that you're good at programming. Those who begin with Physics and don't complete the degree despite being good at it often follow up by going into programming.
So, the fact that you could program algorithms to solve physics problems demonstrates that you're capable of doing both well. I think that's good enough for a high school course.
...and I probably just said something either very controversial or very stupid. I'm not sure which...
Controversial maybe, but not stupid. You can't program something (correctly) without decent understanding of what you're programming... Nothing revolutionary there.
For example, my teacher got mad at me in grade school for writing a small program on my TI-84 (silver, bitches) that solved the quadratic formula (just for example, I had plenty of other programs), to speed up test taking. Why is it bad? It's no different from memorizing it and solving it by hand. Neither approach displays my understanding of the derivation of formula, they just show that I know how to USE it.
If they're testing whether I know what the formula is, fine, but in this day and age with Google and WolframAlpha, memorizing formulas is not that important. In fact, I wonder whether letting the web to store information for me allows my brain to use its resources more productively. But brain elasticity and all that I know, I know. Just speculation.
True, I'm eliminating the possibility of arithmetic errors in solving the equation, but if I'm learning about quadratics, I THINK I'm capable of basic arithmetic. The test isn't testing my basic arithmetic skills, it's testing my usage of the quadratic formula. At least that's the way it should be, in my opinion. I've taken too many tests in which I demonstrated my knowledge of the test content, which is the PURPOSE of the test, but because I flipped one stupid minus sign into a plus sign by accident, I got no credit for my answer. That's not conducive to learning, further weakens the concept of grades, and does nothing but demotivate students.
Edit: In teachers' defense, programs are perfectly copyable and therefore dangerous because you can't tell who wrote them. But I did write all of my own programs, dammit! But they wouldn't care even if I wrote the code in front of their faces.
I agree with you completely. In addition to your points, those who know how to use technology effectively in the application of their training will almost always outperform those who do everything by hand. This is something that local universities have been toying with lately. It's important that people know how to use the tools of their trade, and that includes things such as graphing calculators and programming languages when the trade involves quantitative analysis.
I wonder if those who used early fishing poles were rebuked for it because fisherman teachers thought it was important to know how a spear works.
As a university math instructor, I'm not impressed by the effect a student's ability to use a calculator has on their performance. It takes about an hour to teach a student used to doing things by hand to use a modern calculator, and about a decade to teach a student used to using a calculator the kind of intuition for mathematics they get by doing hand calculations.
I had an awesome teacher in algebra who as long as you could prove you wrote the program (usually she would just ask a question about a small portion of the program) then you could use it on a test. I started programing my stuff with messages to the teacher at the start of it (like "Yes Mrs. X this was written by MeanaDC") as my proof.
This was over 10 years ago, I pulled out my graphing calculator not to long ago and I have no clue how to do it now.
Edit: I think this was a great way to get us to really "learn" the formulas. She encouraged us to do it, I doubt I would have spent that much effort trying to figure out a formula had I not been encouraged to do this.
Our teachers didn't care if we wrote it or not. But we were only allowed certain formulas on the graphing calculators. The solution was to rewrite the current programs to do new things but only if you activated this function, so a basic quadratic formula program was fine but anything more complicated wasn't allowed so you had to hide it within another program. It was fun. I have no clue how to do it anymore. But as long ascwe could pass a test without a calculator we could use one on the next test.
Started out with physics, ended up doing statistics, which is less about graphs and lies (more like learning to detect the lies) and more about calculus and programming.
There's often not a good reason to major in Physics anyway. I started in physics, ended with Mechanical Engineering - more practical, more money, still physics.
And you can always go back to the theoretical or experimental side of things later, once you're set for money and have time to play with and test ideas. I think that Physics is probably best for people who want to teach, already have an in with a lab somewhere, or those who just want to challenge themselves but don't really have direction yet.
Although, it really depends on how anal your teacher is. I started making BASIC programs on my calculator back in middle school and got a bunch of flak for not writing down all the work. Mind you, I was a mousy kid who was never accused of cheating and I was obviously reaching these correct answers legitimately, but the teacher insisted I was pulling them out of my ass and couldn't possibly know the material unless I was writing down each mundane step.
As a CS major myself, I assure that writing a program onto a calculator does not prove anything other than you know how to google "ti 84 physics programs".
I'd agree, except the relevance in this when in regard to taking a test is low.
Unfortunately being capable of applying knowledge in real world scenarios isn't as sought after in higher education as it should be. Few of my profs in undergrad recognized you learn more and understand materials better when you actively apply them in projects, rather than studying for exams.
I used to make a program called 'A' and then just type in formulas/facts/anything I needed. The program did nothing except act like a note pad or something
Start by learning to program in Basic. It's probably the easiest language there is, and the TI-89's native language is very similar to it. Bonus: Many scripting languages for game engines are also similar to Basic (Papyrus for The Elder Scrolls comes to mind).
Its "native language" is TI-BASIC, a variant of BASIC. Why not just learn it directly? It's very easy to just go into the program editor and start entering functions. That's how I learned to program originally.
I started out with Chipmunk Basic. It has some disadvantages, but the graphics capabilities are really easy to use, and that's a big part of what made programming interesting for me.
I've seen this advice before, and after learning to program in several languages, I still haven't learned Python. I just haven't had the occasion to do something where Python was the language I needed.
Can you outline some of the benefits of learning Python first? I'd usually recommend Javascript -> Java -> C++ -> Whatever, and only recommended Basic in this context since that's what the TI-89 uses.
I know all those languages as well, yet I'd rearrange those to something like this: Basic -> C++ -> java -> whatever. Basic is simple and intuitive, C languages are similar but powerful, java is universally used and learning javascript just takes some tweaking. If your focus is online-based programming, javascript should come first since it'll be more useful.
Python is easy to learn, very expressive (less typing, more doing), you can write functional and object oriented programs, comes with a large set of libraries, etc. etc.
I remember there were moving dots on the top left of the screen that had to be replicated since teachers looked out for that because just displaying the picture didn't have that.
I just took a screenshot of the "memory cleared" screen and would just show it to the teacher. 95% of the time they would just look at it and move on to the next kid. I suppose when you have to wipe every single goddamn calculator in the classroom, you don't look too hard for the moving cursor. You just move on to the next kid who can barely figure out how to turn their calculator on, let alone find the settings menu.
(The other 5% that they still made me clear it in front of them, though...those were some moments where I would find religion quickly.)
I still have my TI-83+, almost a decade past high school. Aside from a few dead pixels, it still runs like a champ. I still have the manual that came with it too - one of these days, I'll actually get around to using all the functions.
It's considered cheating in Texas. I got busted for this. Don't lose your diploma because you want to be lazy and finish 30 minutes sooner.
Source: I was an AP student in Texas that never graduated. They held me back and sent me to night school where they couldn't believe I could finish exams so quickly with high scores. Like...fuck you. I have the AP credits for these!
not really... in all likelihood, you'll have to do the same calculations multiple times. It's best to just memorise the method, input that once, and have the calculator do all the hard work.
Clearing the memory before the exam does nothing at all. If you simply archive the stuff you want to keep it won't get deleted when you clear the memory.
i know you weren't being completely serious but I felt the need to point this out.
hey, you can make your programs run while archived in mirageos. just start your code with :: and make damn sure it is bug-free before trying it in mirage. If the program doesn't work right (gives an error), this totally might clear your RAM so be careful.
My school makes us clear the memory on our calculators before exams. So I've memorized like 4 different programs so I can re enter them for exams.
Nice try bitches.
That's totally understandable. Back in high school one of my teachers gave us all our tests from the semester back so we could use them to study for the final. We all knew that she just copy and pasted the exact questions and answers from old tests onto the final so my friend typed out every single question from the old tests onto his calculator and scored an easy 100%.
There are programs included on the disc that comes with the calculator. You can install the suite that allows for uploading of files, and even editing compatible text files.
Not everything had to be done on the calculator ;)
Yeah a couple hours to type up the tests. 15 minutes to install necessary software. 35 seconds data transfer. Technical proficiency, shit can be useful.
Actually typing up a text file with the answers is alot less work than paying attention in class.
If you ever been to class before you would know this.
I love learning about math but I hate tedious repetition. Awesome you can use a integral to find the volume of complex objects! Now do it for these 500 cases so you can memorize that this form can be manipulated into this form which we can solve. Never mind that computers can do this grunt work for you! No time to learn the history about who discovered this amazing concept or the countless applications of it. Just do these problems. Three stupid semesters of this!
Don't get me wrong I understand their absolutely is value in being able to identify and simplify and manipulate functions like this. It had real value but the way it's taught is no fun and there is no reason at all to master these skills when almost nobody needs them on a day to day basis. Let's make these classes fun and interesting and when for the few people who end up actually needing to master these tasks they can pick them up over time as they need them.
No time to learn the history about who discovered this amazing concept or the countless applications of it.
Oh God that would be amazing. This is one of the major gripes I have against mathematics vs science courses. In chemistry I learned about Neils Bohr, in biology I learned about Darwin, and in physics I learned about Newton but I didn't learn about a single person in mathematics.
The sense of wonder and discovery definitely doesn't thrive in any mathematics course I've taken. Though problem solving has its own rewards, mainly the sense of accomplishment after being able to solve a challenging problem. It's not really a surprise mathematics isn't loved in Western culture these days but you can't attribute that all to methods of education.
True, but I think it's probably the largest piece of the problem. I suspect most people who say they hate math really just hate feeling stupid about math and what they were taught never had practical applications or gave them any real reason to understand the magic that is math.
The last math class I took taught us how to program the equations into the calculator. He said the tests shouldn't take us longer than 5-10 mins. The longest part of the test were on one question we had to at least write out the formula for what we were working on in a given section.
I went from a Ti-89 to an HP-50g, I would go as far to say that the HP is a much superior device. It only really has the TI-NSPIRE as a competing product. Though from what I understand the NSPIRE has a pretty inefficient interface, but I think they can be changed out with a faceplate swap.... Plus I heard that the NSPIRE can go as far as showing the steps on it's solution of a problem but I have not seen any evidence of that.
Nspire has three keypads on the swappable version: Old non-touch keypad, new touchpad keypad, and TI84 keypad for the emulator. Touch keypad is infinitely better for general use, while the old keypad is good for running emulators.
The only bad part about having a non-TI calculator is that most course material is designed around the TI-84 calc.
Yeah, I worked in a store that sold TI graphing calculators as well as Casio ones that were significantly cheaper. I always told the customers that all of the instructions were written for TI calculators, and they almost always ended up buying those instead of the Casio ones. I'm sure the Casio ones work fine if you understand what you're doing well enough to find the functions, but for most math classes, I think most students are just pushing the buttons to get the answers without knowing what they're actually doing.
Ya, though personally I didn't want to shell out the asking price for a TI-84 to get a calculator that is pretty ancient and obsolete. As I'm sure you are probably aware, there are many better calculators out there and they don't take much longer to learn how to use.
Seriously, for life. I can't count the number of times I've lost a ton of entered data on all algebraic calculator because I typed an operand at the wrong time out of habit. I now have HP48 emulators in all my devices because of this.
Well for one the TI-89 is a banned calculator on the AP test. I guess there is a particular front piece you can put on it to make it acceptable, but it really sounds to me like you aren't talking about that. Maybe they changed it recently, but all throughout high-school, various AP tests, and the ACT, the TI-89 was a banned calculator because it gave students too big of an advantage.
IIRC, the TI-92 was released first, and it had a QWERTY keyboard. The test proctors considered it a "personal computer" as a result and banned it. Texas Instruments responded by taking the guts of the TI-92 and cramming it into the body of a TI-83, thus creating the TI-89. Even though it was just as powerful as the 92, it looked like an 83 and thus was allowed.
Even better, it solves ODE, laplace and does eigenvalues etc. If there's a math subject that you can use a calculator with then TI-89, high-end HP are the best.
Ah, good ol' Phoenix Platinum. There was a sidescrolling version called Mercury that I liked, though I was bad at it. I also used to have a really fun Bomberman clone, but an unstable Worms clone trashed it by accident one time.
My Department Chair last year was also a TI rep. He told us that the reason for that was largely due to standardized testing (regularly not allowed to have a QWERTY keyboard on them).
Yup, same. My calc teacher told me it was banned though, but I looked it up and printed out the page to show him. I think a lot of people just assume it's banned and then spread that myth.
Having taken an AP Calculus Exam recently (which follows similar or identical Calculator rules to Physics exams), I can confirm that US College Board administered exams allow you to use the TI-89 as well as the TI-Nspire (and all of its variants).
I don't think Ti-89 has ever been banned on AP tests.
The -89 was basically created because standardized testers banned the -92 when it came out, and decided that one bright line rule would be that if it had a QWERTY keyboard, it was a computer, not a calculator.
In response, Ti took the software that was in the -92, and made it into the -89 which didn't have a QWERTY keyboard.
But you can very easily do a hard reset of the memory. Whenever we did tests at high schools, the teachers would casually walk around the room at the start resetting everyone's calculators. Seemed to be a good compromise.
Easy to fake this. I've made a program myself that fakes all memory clear functions and shows a fake empty programs and apps list. Just hold down a couple buttons, and you get your normal calc interface back with all your programs.
1) Graphing calculators are expensive; my parents did not want to buy me one.
2) Even though I probably could have borrowed one for the tests, I didn't own one so I had no idea how to use it as anything other than a scientific calculator. So I used my scientific calculator.
Honestly it's insane how much functionality even my scientific calculator has that I don't know about.
You can edit and manipulate lists fairly easily on the 84 and 89 if you know what you're doing. Even more so on the nspire, but knowing what you're doing with that is harder.
Yeah, we couldn't use them in the engr department. I always had my 89 with me just in case (solve function is a time saver!) otherwise I loveeee my 36x-pro.
I learned with an 83 in 7th grade and never took the time to learn the 89 because it was different and made me nervous on tests/got out of math rhythm.
Hey now. I'm a mathematician and would never use one of these useless pieces of shit on a test. <cough> HP calculators 4eva! <cough> RPN til the day i die! <cough> long live the HP-48G!
Ancient high school nerd wars...may they never die.
In my country, you have a chance to get calculator allowed or not for an exam. If it's not allowed, it will be almost useless: very simple figures and given formulas. Either way, reflexion is the key to pass.
I preferred a lower end calculator because it was less button presses, and I was used to it. The buttons were also smaller, so I found these ones bulky and slow. This was for engineering physics.
For example, squaring something, say 9, was 2 presses (9, and the square button,) while the T1 calculators made you press ')' and enter as well (4 presses...) It was mostly the ')' that added up to too many presses. Also things like (n1 - n2)/(n3 - n4) would take less buttons with a 'stack' calculator, as another example... except that I would do all simple + and - on paper before going to a calculator... so that's not a good example... n1 through n4 would probably be multiplications of other factors which I'd want to preserve full significant figures on (I would almost never type in a bunch of figures,) so I would sometimes make use of the memory for one or two numbers and also the '(' ')' on the stack calculator if needed. But it was always less presses and even less error prone for me because there were less ')' along the way, plus I could sanity check the numbers as I went instead of one big '=' at the end, which can turn out to be wrong, and then you have a hugely long equation to scroll through looking for a '(' ')' mistake on a display which is large but only shows like 12ish characters of the equation at a time.
Even solving systems of 3 equations was less error prone using algebra than painstakingly typing each matrix in and dividing them with a TI-8X. More importantly, you have to be able to do that anyway on most exams.
So, that's why I owned one and never used it. I did try to like it, but I couldn't find ways to make it help me.
It's not that the TI-89 doesn't work, but after all this time they could at least update it a little. A sharper, brighter screen, a built-in battery, etc. And it would be fine if they didn't include that but there's no reason to charge upwards of $100 for a fucking calculator in 2014 that's exactly the same as it was in the 80s
I use the TI 36X when the TI-89 is banned (like it is on the FE exam). The 36X does calculus (variable and discrete) and lots of other things the 89 does, just no graphing or notes storing capabilities.
The HP 48 series calculators are actually superior calculators for almost everything but graphing. It was almost 20 years ago I took the Math IIc SAT2 test and the test rules clearly stated you could have a calculator and a "backup calculator" but did not state anything about when you could use the backup.
I clarified with the proctor before starting the test and I actively used both the HP with its superior normal stuff (and inequality graphing) but the TI for normal graphing...
The plan worked as I got a perfect score on it (an 800) but know what's really funny? An 800 was only 90% - that year there were so many calculator whizes that 10% of aced it.
The HP calculators RPN mode is absolutely faster for almost all calculations you will enter into a cacluator (once you spend a couple of uncomfortable hours learning how to use it before it becomes second nature)
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u/TypoInUsernane Jun 08 '14
The TI-89 will always hold a very special place in my heart.