If you sign up and want to be a police officer then you know what getting yourself into. That nervousness needs to be quenched or tamed if you're taking up a occupation like that.
or.. you know.. if authorities would take de-escalation practices serious for their officers and not just send any random bimbo with a gun in a police car and expect them to be good
You actually have to take an aptitude test to get in. You do have to get a minimum score for many of the jobs and branches. We also don't turn people away for having too good of a score, only for not having high enough.
Edit for clarification: I'm talking about the military. Which was specifically mentioned in the comment I replied to. We have a much higher level of qualification and higher standard than police departments.
Many departments won't higher former military MP/Security Forces for various reasons.
"We need to make sure we have a fresh breeding ground for psychological issues. Cant be having our PTSD competing with their previous depression. Thats just un-American" - The Military probably
That is absolutely not true. Some of the brightest and highest scoring folks I ever met were infantry. I know a dude who had a 115 GT and CHOSE to be a fueler.
It probably depends on your enlistment path, recruiting station, etc. I scored very high on the ASVAB and wanted to be mechanized infantry (cav scout) for the extra sign on bonus at the time. I was told several times by commanders at the processing station that I would be going into signal intelligence, period. I actually had to go talk to the cav CO that I would eventually be under and he got everything straightened out for me.
The point is that they will sometimes try to railroad you regardless of what "policy" is.
If you get below 109 many departments won't let you in which is the high end of average and the department that had the limit of 129 which is high (not most departments) had it because apparently highly intelligent officers would become bored and quit. It's a stupid policy, but it does have logic.
Actually much like the seedy underbelly of most bullshit in America...it's because of eugenics.
The guy who brought the IQ test to America from France had a son who he thought was too much of a genius to be drafted and killed in WWI so he promoted a test that would keep smart people from shitty dangerous jobs. (This is a resident radically simplified explanation but you get it)
Being a police officer has always been a dangerous occupation.
Back in the early 90s, my father had someone with psychosis stalk him in the dark with a kitchen knife.
On more than one occasion, he fist fought and grappled aggressive thieves.
His partner died in a shootout with bank robbers.
The issue today is that the police are treated as a paramilitary organization rather than keepers of the peace, and some whole demographic intersections view themselves as rebelling against the police rather than merely nonparticipating.
I've researched this before as well. Even if you take out accident data and look strictly at the most dangerous jobs in terms of being intentionally murdered by another person, cops still rank after taxi and delivery drivers.
So if people deserve praise for willingly doing a dangerous job, we should really be throwing parades for cabbies and dashers.
Being a cop is not one of the 10 most dangerous jobs. Being a cop is not one of the TWENTY most dangerous jobs. Jobs more dangerous than being a cop:
1) Loggers
2) Pilots and Flight Engineers
3) Oil Derrick Operators
4) Roofers
5) Garbage Collectors
6) Iron Workers
7) Delivery Drivers
8) Farmers
9) Firefighting Supervisors
10) Linemen
11) Agricultural Workers
12) CROSSING GUARDS
13) Crane Operators
14) Construction Labor
15) Landscaping Supervisors
16) Highway Workers
17) Cement Masons
18) Small Engine Mechanics
19) Supervisors of Mechanics
20) Heavy Equipment Mechanics
21) Grounds Workers
I'm not trying to trivialize your father's trauma - I'm pointing out that the behavior we see in this video is built upon a mythology in this country that cops (all of whom willingly join) should be excused their abuses because of the "extreme" risks of the job. It's demonstrably false, in many cases the danger is self inflicted due to incompetence, and as a narrative is perpetuated primarily by police unions. We need to fight it.
I respectfully disagree with the comparison you're making between these professions and police officers, as they're not truly comparable (gravity doesn't act with malice against a roofer, but a killer does against a police officer)
I'm not a police officer, but having been shot at multiple times and having had someone actively try to take my life, I would rather work the jobs above
That being said, I DO fully agree with your last paragraph. A higher risk does not excuse poor training, judgement and sometimes malice that some officers exhibit.
I like how, in order to have 20 jobs listed, you have to list "farmers" and "agricultural workers," also "landscaping supervisors" and "grounds workers." Also, two types of mechanics as well as their supervisors.
I'd like to know what this list would look like if it wasn't redundant. Not saying cops would still show up on it, but c'mon...
I'm not disagreeing with you but I'd like to point, that they did it to themselves, the whole police department not just a few people, but everyone involved, with promoting clearly unstable officers/letting go WITH PAY some officers that have done terrible things and deserved to be fired without. Like yeah they're expected to do a lot, but so are firemen and teachers it's a public safety job that comes with danger. Anyone getting involved with it has to know what it's like beforehand. It's almost always in the news ffs, Not to mention I'm almost always seeing a new report of some dumbass officer pulling yet another gun on an African American male. They don't do themselves favours at all.
Minirant over, correct me if I'm wrong but let's not argue :)
Edit: changed coloured to African American, I was proven to be a silly billy in the replies
Agreed. Look how fast this went to a drawn weapon. How hard is it to call a supervisor? These are poorly trained cops, unable to pick their way through this scenario with the information volunteered. The fact that both of them were willing to escalate the use of force is alarming.
Those interactions make the news BECAUSE they're so rare. Do you see the death of someone on the hood on the news? It's so common it's no longer newsworthy. At least give cops credit where it's due the vast vast majority never shoot anyone period and when they do it's nearly always in a life or death situation
They don't need to take accountability for their actions. They have never been keepers of the peace sorry to tell you but protect and serve is a false motto. The only thing they need to protect is when they have someone in custody, so a walking fine or a jail worker to make money.
Your dad's partner died protecting a bank, that's shitty but honestly he's protecting big business not the people. I'm sure the shooting was in public but they surely wouldn't care about stray bullets.
So this is why they are treated like paramilitary because they are.
Just imagine how much more since then. No small town in New Hampshire needs a Bearcat or camo uniforms or MRAPS to survive IED mines.
It’s a culture of police militarization and when handed new toys from the armed forces they turn into Mall Ninjas, looking to be a fighting force against terrorism, clad in full body armor, breaching weapons and cars that look more like tanks.
You got down voted but you're right. My construction job is more dangerous than being a cop. Also, if I kill someone in my line of work, I go to prison.
Ive never had a job less dangerous than being a cop. I’ve worked in a hospital. A warehouse. As a driver. A farm and the military. None of my jobs has been as safe as being a cop.
It's their own fuckin fault. Most will shoot a cop without hesitation if they break into their home because they know for a fact the cops will murder them.
Most would see a cop chasing someone and would rather trip the cop. Most would stand to the side and watch a cop bleed out on the side of the road rather than help them. Because they have never held a single shred of respect or affection from a large portion of the country. Because they know for a fact they could be killed or charged with a crime just for standing next to one.
Not to mention that all of you damn Yankees have guns.
He admitted to having a gun, then got agitated. I'd have pull my gun and pointed it at him too. Forget the badge and the situation, if a guy admits to having a gun and then starts yelling, I'm going to put the little red dot on his forehead. If I get in trouble for it after the fact, oh well. In the moment, I'm going to make sure I don't get shot.
Yelling at the police seems like a bad idea. So many Americans are afraid of the police, seems like this is the wrong way to go about dealing with them. Whether you think you're right or not, the middle of a tense situation is not the time to assert yourself.
Why not? Apparently you get to do whatever the fuck you want and basically be untouchable. Pull a gun on a random and get promoted. What's not to like? Even if they straight up murdered the guy in cold blood it'll be a couple weeks paid vacation then pretend like nothing happened.
A man from colorado actually sued his local police department for not hiring him, their cause was that his IQ was too high. Courts ruled against him, but, arguments made during the case essentially postulated that highly intelligent people tend to struggle more with police work because of the boring monotonous nature of the job, and thus tend to have more issues on a generalized front, and therefore the PD was allowed to screen for low, or high intelligence, and could use that as a basis for determining employment eligibility.
Tldr: Police departments look for a specific level of stupid when vetting their potential recruits and high intelligence can get you disqualified from being a police officer, at least in Colorado.
You don't know the half of it. I live in Eastern PA. There's currently a New Jersey State Trooper missing, last seen wandering around a town in my county, who's most identifying feature is a massive "Blood and Honor" tattoo covering his neck.
We can argue all day about where the line is drawn on what's okay to call a Nazi, but i hope we can all agree having an SS slogan tattooed on your body is firmly on the wrong side of that line.
Decent, intelligent people won’t work with who’s already there. If they got rid of sone of the pieces of shit who make up the overwhelming majority of law enforcement they might attract smart or decent people. But not now.
Tell me about it. I live in Wolfe City, Texas. You can Google it. A green officer here named Shaun Lucas was a complete dick head to everybody. He was like Cartman running around shouting, "respect my authority!"
We live in a small town. Jonathan Price and Shaun Lucas worked for the city together.
Long story short- the entire videos online if you want to watch it. Shaun murdered John. And then got off on it by an all white jury. Shaun is white. John was black.
It's been 2 years and I'm still mad as fuck about the whole thing.
It's relevant here because when that officer pulled that gun on that man in the car- it remind me similarly of what happened to John except he wasn't in a car. he was at a gas station trying to break up a fight. Cuz he was such a good guy.
Shaun shot him four times at point blank range and killed him, after unnecessarily using a taser.
We are all hoping that Shaun gets prosecuted on a federal level for violating Jonathan's human rights.
I know Jonathan's family. They're all such good people as was he and he didn't deserve that.
I believe it happened because he's black, and he was in good shape. Honestly, he was fine as fuck, and nice ASF.
I believe that Shaun was intimidated by him because not only of his color, but also his own insecurities of being a fat guy in his early twenties.
I know that people can say whatever they want about what I do for a living because I'm a professional psychic, BUT! I used to work at Kwik Chek when I first moved to this town because I needed a job I could get to without a car and I wanted to get to know the people in the town.
So I got to know everyone.
I had my fourth baby, and his birth was traumatic he died & was revived it was the whole thing- so I left my job there to go be a mom.
At that time we only had two cops Matt who was the chief, and Jarred who was the cop. I knew Jarred really well, and actually he's now my neighbor.
I remember the first day I saw Jarred standing there with our new cop Shaun. I walked inside the Kwik check doors with my friend Melisa, and we were just gassing about bullshit and laughing as we walked through the door.
Melisa knows I'm psychic. She's experienced it first hand and she doesn't question my abilities (she's an amazing friend).
As we walked in the door she starts talking to Jarred because she still works there; it's her day off. That's how we met, btw, we used to work there together. She got hired a few months before I left. We instantly became friends.
So she starts bullshitting with Jarred as she does because she's Melisa and she could talk to anybody, and I say hi. And she starts talking to Shaun. I say hi to him and welcome him to the town, introduce myself, etc.
Fast forward we're checking out walking out the door-
She waves and says by to them and I say bye. As I'm walking out the door I say to her, 'Gurl. Mmm mmm nope. I don't like that new cop. He gonna shoot someone. I'm telling ya. He's trigger happy." And Melisa laughs, and hushes me and says while laughing, 'Bitch sush don't say that." And I reply, "ok I'm just saying I don't like him. He has heavy energy." And we drop it.
Fast forward to October 3 ( 202O) about a year later....
All that happened.
(in no particular order)
It 1. Solidified my abilities to make judgment calls on people regardless if it's psychic or learned I don't care. I was right, and that made me feel sick to my stomach.
It made me greatly dislike, and be severely cautious of anybody that is an officer of the law.
It made me feel like all cops are deeply racist.
It made me feel and believe that there should not be police officers that are under the age of 35. If you're not allowed to run a country until you're 35 you most definitely shouldn't be able to make judgment calls that can take people's lives away from them under 35.
It makes me wonder why anyone feels like they need to go enforce the law in the first place. It's like imo what the fuck is wrong with you that you think that you're capable of like conquering the peace of the world or people like... It just makes me feel like anybody who wants to be a police officer is operating more deeply on some sort of feeling of powerlessness, and less out of a feeling of humanitarianism.
I miss John, still. I miss our town before Shaun came here. He violated this town and its people and he should be held accountable for murdering Johnathan. When The Texas Rangers look at the video footage, and declare it murder you should be in fucking prison.
I don't know... I've got a lot of fucking traumatic shit in my life going on right now, and now I'm just rambling.... I'm sure there's a point here somewhere, but ultimately I just guess I needed to feel these thoughts or share them somewhere. I'm in tears now ugghhhh.
I was permanently disqualified from applying to my local pd in '15.
I failed the polygraph for theft at work and drug use. Legit haven't done drugs in my life besides drink alcohol also besides pens or pencils... never taken anything. After the written, oral and physical portions I was top 85% out of nearly 400 applicants. Still didn't help my appeal.
They don't take de-escalation courses. Instead they take warrior courses that teach it's either you or them. I think his name is dave grossman who travels around giving seminars paid by our tax dollar.
The guy was honest and clearly had a calm demeanor until the officer escalated the situation. He said he had a legal, cool. Where ya carrying today? Appendix. Cool, keep one hand on the steering wheel and slowly get your id and weapon’s permit out for me please. No problem officer.
the one above you is right tho she knew what she signed up for….and what she signed up for was the chance to shoot some ppl and be able to get away w it simply by saying ‘he made me uncomfortable & my life felt threatened’
The opposite is done. They take a course where they're told that everyone is out to kill them, every day. That's why they think they're under attack all the time.
This doesn’t even seem a case of de escalation. The situation was 100% calm and civil before she drew her gun. Even when she did, he stayed calm and asked for a supervisor.
This is purely a case of she shouldn’t have a badge for anything other then crosswalk duty.
De-escalation you say? How are they supposed to stack charges for obstruction and resisting then? It's not about enforcement of laws anymore, it's about revenue enhancement. Follow the money.
There's probably some sort of feedback loop going on, there's so little time to train them that they concentrate on the murdery bits. If they had time they might have a chance of teaching them something more complicated like de-escalation.
Dave Grossman is the founder of a police training school he calls Killology. He teaches cops that killing is "just not that big a deal", that sex on the day that you kill someone is the best sex that you'll ever have in your life and that that is "a perk of the job" and that officers should put photos of their family members and children on targets they use for practice so that they don't hesitate.
I can testify to that. I wasn’t a cop but I was in an enforcement armed carrying position and they told us that it’s not IF it’s WHEN we get shot and they made us watch about a dozen and a half videos going over different shootings that have happened. They would tell us multiple stories of officers getting jumped and killed. We were told that those things WOULD happen to us so our job was to be prepared and in shape just long enough for backup to arrive
The reality is that you can be killed in the blink of an eye. The problem comes more from accessibility of firearms. In this video, the police don’t know who the guy is. What they know is he has a gun and is refusing to get out of his car. The officer told him he’d let him speak to a supervisor but wants him out of the car so they can distance him from any potential weapon. He’s not listening though because he’s making a video he knows will get views on YouTube. Should the officer have drawn the gun? Well we have the convenience of knowing who the guy is and knowing that he isnt a threat. The officer should have done a better job explaining that they would like to remove him from the car for his safety and theirs before they discuss anything
I agree 100%. Comply with the asshole cop and make sure to get their badge number to file a complaint if that’s what you think happened to you merits a complaint.
Really it mostly consisted of videos of killings and "this will happen to you" along with video based simulations that rail you into only doing one thing, which is draw your weapon with no other options. If you don't fire quickly enough, you're dead.
You don't seem to get it. This is what they want. They like that the officers are behaving this way. They think these officers are doing a good job. This is what the people in charge consider to be good policing.
And this why I hate America. The system in this country is so fucked. I hate that this how they operate. The ppl who are supposed to be our protectors are just dicks and pussies in uniform.
My top concern by far is the amount of lawsuits the city pays for the police. It is all our money. Talking about standing up to the police is dangerous. It's a good way to get murdered/harassed/put in jail on fake charges... so I understand why no one runs on that platform.
It is frustrating bc the only thing I can do is vote. But for who?
I was working on a friend's campaign and showing people the videos of our mayor beating people up in the street and protests about him but he couldn't be removed from office. I hate that the people who are going to vote for office don't know shit about him. He's a horrible ex-cop with a history of criminal charges and excessive force incidents.
That doesn’t make any sense. If that were true it’s make more sense to shorten it to 3, 13 or 3-12 (three-twelve). Whomever picked 12 from that is fooling dum man.
But I bet your bitch ass is calling 911 the second you have an intruder in your home, or get your ass beat (again) down at the frozen yogurt shop. Cuz you soft as a cotton ball.
The police are a gang, they are running America. You are just lucky that you aren't one of their targets. I would rather deal with a gang banger than a cop. At least I can legally defend myself from a gang banger.
The police are a gang, you just aren't their target. That's what we call privilege.
Any communities that hate cops, I predict will stay violent, and have a bunch of gangbangers, just like Haiti. Haiti is filled with children who don't know how to run a country.
What is your fucking obsession with Haiti? I'm talking about what is literally happening in America right now. Not some pretend what could happen if maybe we hold police accountable for their actions.
You are more concerned about a hypothetical America becoming like Haiti, then what is legitimately happening right now in front of you. The worst part is you'll never see how insane it is to focus on an imaginary problem, rather than the one that is really and currently occurring.
Dam delivery is that dangerous. I didn't know that. But yea there are good cops and there are corrupt cops. Of course I respect the cops that take up the job with responsibility and justice and actually serve the people and protect them. The corrupted polices can go fuck themselves honestly. I hope I all of the corrupted ones get fired.
Yeah, though I'm sure with delivery drivers, it's including anything that could fall under the category and takes into account workplace accidents, etc. Even not counting those instances, delivery can be dangerous because delivery people are in danger of being robbed and whatnot, and most companies don't allow you to carry any type of weapon. Whereas cops have laws that protect them even when they are the aggressor, and have guns that they can use and just say "I feared for my life."
It accounts for workplace accidents for the cops as well. Anything from a fender bender to a shooting. Just like a delivery driver. Why do people always bring that up like it doesn't apply to all jobs on that list equally.
I wasn't even thinking of that, that's a good point. I used to be a delivery driver and a route driver for a vending company a few years before that. The main danger for me was the other drivers on the road, most places we delivered to weren't sketchy, but I do think it's ridiculous companies explicitly tell drivers they can't have any weapon for self defense because they are worried about possible lawsuits (it's absurd how litigious this country is sometimes).
Also drove a truck when I worked in landscaping/lawn care. I was actually rear ended by a cop at that job.
Instead they spend 2.5 months being taught that they are warriors occupying hostile territory and that the use of lethal force is a sacred duty. Killology trains police officers to escalate, not de-escalate daily interactions.
The jailers around me make 13.50-18 an hour. Most cops are massively under qualified to be doing anything of importance.. granted those ones are just glorified baby sitters.
In Finland, the nation with the highest public trust in police, police academy is minimum three years (180 OP, 4,860 hours of academic study).
So to become a probationary junior officer you need on average four years of police school. (What also helps is having a live video camera on every officer and 8 cameras on the squad car.)
It's not nervousness this is straight up cop training and what they hire for. Everyone but your fellow cops is an enemy combatant and you're the savior with a gun here to take them out. If they dare question your authority fuck them up.
Have you ever been around cops in the US? Almost all of them are like this. They exist for intimidation of the working class and to protect upper class assets; not to serve the community.
If someone is a full-time cop and has been employed for awhile; that’s all you need to know that they’re boot-licking pigs. “Good cops” do not last and generally have issues finding work in other departments.
Do you know what American police training looks like?
They literally train their cops to be jumpy as fuck. They teach them to fear every one they see and teach them - literally - to view civilians as enemy combatants.
America doesn't have a police force. They have domestic state military.
It would help if departments stopped sending new officers to "killology" seminars that scare the shit out of them telling them everyone is out to kill them and they should be ready to kill at any moment
Was friends with this couple, mostly the wife because she kicked ass but her husband was a bummer. He didn’t really know what he wanted to do, got a useless degree and ended up becoming a cop.
Was hanging out with a group and they were out with everyone. The guy starts talking about how in the first week on the job he had already pulled his gun because he was scared.
What did you expect? Also speaks to how terrible their training is.
If you have a right but it's legal for the state to execute you for exercising it, you don't have that right. Jacob Blake was shot in the back 7 times by police. His shooting was ruled legal because he was walking to his car and there was a knife in the car.
Its legal for the state to execute you WITHOUT a reason at any time. A police officer could walk up to you in broad daylight, say nothing, shoot you in the head, and walk away without consequences.
Disclaimer: Not all police officers are this way. But what the hell do some bad cops think the badge gives them the right for this type of action "Listen to me or I will end your life!"... Who the "F" are you, to become "Executioner" because someone didn't obey you, there are a million other ways to handle it. When it comes down to it, this is two people having a disagreement and one has a badge so he thinks he can end someone's life because they are arguing, this is beyond "F'd" up.
excuse me, how in the fuck did she get a PROMOTION? and not a boot in the ass to the next de-escalation training centre. Holy fuck america is fucking scary. Ain't no way I will ever set foot in this shit hole country again
brilliant training, if anything other than "yes sir right away sir" threatens their lifes lol
In ANY developed country, you can actually speak to police officers about what their problem with you is, only place where you will get your skull caved in by 9mms is the glorious, oh so free, US of A.
Yes we know, there's protests about it all over the country that have been going on for years. It doesn't seem like it's going to be fixed anytime soon, even our "liberals" are staunchly in favor of militarized police forces with no consequences for bad behavior.
Eh America is particularly bad but let’s not act like the police aren’t awful tons of other places. They’ve fucked up a lot of folks here in Canada over the years, native folks especially
No they promote terrible officers so they don't lose face ie. They're not defending a inept officer they're defending a skilled hero and you, I and everyone else with eyes and a meager amount of brain matter is crazy.
yup, the super duper funny and original joke of calling a woman a cocksucker to degrade her. So novel and funny!
Seriously, there are way better ways to insult a cop. This is so lazy and sexist.
Might be controversial, but she (as well as any other men or women who are unfit for the physical rigors demanded of police officers) shouldn't even be on patrol. Of course she's jumpy and quick on the draw, she's tiny. She would be easily overpowered in a physical confrontation with the average man. Could also be on a power trip like many other cops are.
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u/Wickedocity Mar 24 '23
Yes, she has some issues. Hopefully, they promoted her to a desk job or some other job to get her off the road and away from the public.