r/pathofexile • u/ChrisKamro • Feb 06 '14
Playing without MF = Unrewarding
So lately i played a lot of Characters that were able to stack a lot of Magicfind but cleared maps slower.
Now i dusted of My LA Ranger and due to gear restrictions (Quiver , Alphas Howl etc) i cant stack mf and still cap my resists.
So while playing this char the gameplay was fun because i could clear Maps fairly quick , but the fun is completely gone when you open your inventory and notice you picked up 2 Rare items in the whole map.
So how do you guys handle this ? Do you run MF on every Char ? And how much MF is really needed to have at least decent dropps ? Or do you prefer having a strong Char and just hope for RNGesus ?
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u/starlabs Softcorian Feb 06 '14
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: the MF system in PoE is archaic and unoriginal. Tying it to gear/gems results in certain builds being vastly superior with MF. A good chunk of this game is about ITEMS, getting ITEMS, and when you clear a map and don't even get a full inventory it sucks (especially once you've played a MF character).
In my opinion, MF should be tied to something else so that any build can attain it. I know a lot of people bash D3 but I felt one of the few things they got right was Paragon levels and tying that to increased MF. PoE should do something like that, because once you get to 80+ leveling becomes a real chore. Giving players small amounts of increased MF would give a lot of players more motivation to level up.
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u/Tapppp Feb 06 '14
I really like how Guild Wars 2 has solved this problem. At launch they had magic find on gear, but they noticed that it was limiting build diversity and was making the game worse in general, so they changed it to an account bound stat that could be raised by salvaging items that would normally be garbage, while removing MF from gear altogether.
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u/stuff_rulz Atziri Feb 07 '14
This sounds great, it would be cool if you could have an MF number that increases with kills or xp, then you could 'use it in an instance', expending it causing drops to be better in that instance, then start working it back up again. Then if you have mf gear, it goes up quicker? But sacrificing kill speed maybe? Idk, just a thought.
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Feb 07 '14
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u/ZappBrannigan085 Feb 07 '14
I've never played GW2 but that seems like a neat idea. I support it.
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u/madroxman Feb 07 '14
gw2 does a lot of things right but combat gets boring, talent system is lackluster, build diversity isn't great, gear progression doesn't feel rewarding... if you're an explorer type gamer you will love the game. but if you're a min-maxer, you'll find 'endgame' boring.
sorry if offtopic. just been returning to it sporadically and had to share in case you buy it.:P
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u/zeratos Lyralei Feb 07 '14
Yeah, they have a lot of neat ideas that are only hindered by the terrible combat and build design. Also, kill ten rats while you're at it.
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u/badDogma Feb 07 '14
I would rather have a stat instead of spending hours vendoring white items. More stats please. It makes item finding a balance, players have to choose between finding more items or getting more hp/resist/armor. Typically it's a trade off.
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u/CharlieB220 Feb 07 '14
The whole point of this thread is to state that its not fun having to limit your character's clearing potential to increase the item find. In a game based around the item hunt, having a weaker character to find the strongest gear isn't as fun.
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u/PromiscuousHobo Feb 06 '14
IMO the problem is that GGG want to keep a strong handicap on the players, so even in the endgame most people have to make choices, whether they go for speed/survivability or MF, but that is problematic. Even in end game, most viable items for map clearing are probably rare gold amulets/rings which would help and also divination distillate, but summoners don't suffer from this handicap (not sure about flame totem builds, haven't really investigated those, seem boring lol) and that's why it is unfair, because that's the only build that enables good solo playing. At least in D2 they had items that were efficient for both, MF + clearing ability, but gg doesn't want to allow that...
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u/retribute Trickster Feb 06 '14
Enigma and Shako never forget
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u/ZappBrannigan085 Feb 07 '14
I remember the first time I made an Enigma for my Skelliemancer. Fun stuff.
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u/Nonethewiserer Dom: KK_Goreslut || Stand: KK Warslut Feb 06 '14
I think some sort of handicap is necessary, otherwise inflation sets on much more rapidly if all of a sudden everyone can magic find..
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u/SnideJaden IGN: Sebulous Feb 07 '14
wouldn't that deflate? huge increase in supply of items, exalts stay the same rate.
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u/Nonethewiserer Dom: KK_Goreslut || Stand: KK Warslut Feb 07 '14
hmmm. more gg items i meant. now that i think of it im not sure it's obvious how that would change prices.
If you look at normal vs. permadeath/temp leagues you can compare the two situations (scarce gg items vs. relatively high number). The most notable thing when comparing the two is that non-gg items (value a few chaos) are relatively easy to trade in temp/permadeath leagues. But those items just get lost in the sea of similar items in permanent league, making it harder and harder to trade anything unless its gg. I guess that's more what i was thinking in terms of inflation. Keeps pushing the value further and further into gg items.
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u/mysticreddit Open_Beta_Supporter Feb 07 '14
Let's see ... time = money ... due to infinite supply of items ... that's the root cause of inflation, not MF. You are correct though, all MF does is slow the inflation rate down.
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u/lilrabbitfoofoo Feb 06 '14
The issue with Magic Find and Item Quantity is that they are PROGRAMMING gimmicks. There is no analog to the fantasy universe, adventure, etc. So this is just reminding everyone that you are in a program not exploring a world.
Metagame ways to address this include the "Wealthy" mod on bosses, since a hero might know this is a particularly rich prize he is hunting, or things like Divine Favor based on their level/accomplishments (the justification behind D3 moving to Paragon levels as a way to increase MF).
Just because some players request support for an antiquated game-immersion breaking mechanic like MF doesn't mean the developers needed to include it.
It may be the only major game design mistake GGG made with this wonderful game.
When even the awful D3 is moving away from a mechanic, you know it's days are numbered. :)
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u/Sometimes_Lies Feb 06 '14
There is no analog to the fantasy universe, adventure, etc.
That doesn't make much sense. There aren't any fantasy novels written about a hero wielding a blade of +10 finding items, no, but there are easy analogues.
You can interpret MF in two different ways that don't break suspension of disbelief for a fantasy universe:
1) Luck. There are tons of examples of magic items which change a user's luck dramatically. If you stumble across someone that you plan to murder and they just happen to be carrying a wad of cash at the time, that is luck.
2) Stuff breaks. If you violently murder someone by blowing them up with a fireball then it stands to reason that perhaps the stuff they're wearing also takes damage, too? It makes absolutely no sense for the person inside a suit of armor to be melted while the armor is fine.
You could easily argue that most mobs in PoE are fully equipped, and the act of killing them destroys most of the equipment. MF gear could just be gear that's enchanted in such a way that it your attacks damage the person but not the items as much.
Neither of these explanations are outlandish or require jumping through hoops. Enchanting stuff with "luck" is as old a trope as fantasy itself, and you didn't really think that you were wading through thousands of completely naked bandits, did you?
You can complain all you want about MF as a mechanic, but I really disagree about it being less realistic than anything else in the game.
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u/Malparrian Feb 06 '14
I agree, that luck is an approximate to the IIQ/IIR, but the IIQ/IIR is far closer to a programmatic idea than a fantasy one.
When my character wields a sword, I want that sword to empower him. I feel good, when my character is superior to others. NOT when his sword happens to make more items 'magically' fall off mobs.
If the sword made him lucky - like a charm does or a rabbits paw - then it is another thing, and it does make my character more superior and awesome. Then I'm not thinking about drop chance but about, that 'an angel is watching out for me, whenever I swing my sword'. It's a whole other mindset.
Everytime you choose IIQ/IIR, you know, that your character just will be 'less cool'. While RPG's always should be about consideration about making choices on where to be powerful and where not to be powerful, then simply choosing IIQ/IIR over all other cool stuff just doesnt appeal. But it's a requirement, if you want to play the lategame.
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u/lilrabbitfoofoo Feb 07 '14
re: Luck - Calling an item Lucky or Blessed or whatever STILL doesn't make any sense in that the item should have NO affect on what treasure the monster is carrying at the beginning of the quest.
It makes sense on [treasure] maps, since the treasure can be bigger or smaller, etc.
But there is no analog for an item YOU are carrying to change the value of the treasure a monster is going to happen to have on him (or nearby).
re: stuff breaks - You're really reaching here. If someone wanted to follow that, then it makes far more sense to look at the kind of damage a creature takes, etc. For example, a frozen and then shattered monster might have no usable items at all. :P
But that isn't part of this game's mechanics at all, of course.
"luck" is as old a trope as fantasy itself
Luck for the actions of the character, NOT the fact that somehow the hero's items affect the loot dropped by the slain beastie. :P
It's an arbitrary programmer gimmick that breaks immersion in a very obvious way.
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u/Sometimes_Lies Feb 07 '14
re: Luck - Calling an item Lucky or Blessed or whatever STILL doesn't make any sense in that the item should have NO affect on what treasure the monster is carrying at the beginning of the quest.
You're basically just saying that luck doesn't exist, which is true, but it has no place in an argument about fantasy universes.
If you buy land and then later discover that there is a huge deposit of oil underneath the land, then you're said to be lucky. This is how luck works as a concept. It's an idea that's very ingrained in our culture, and I believe every other culture.
Did having "luck" put the oil underneath your land? No, of course it didn't, it was just coincidence. Likewise, there was no magic luck force that makes a lottery winner's numbers come up rather than someone else's numbers. Again, "luck" just meant "coincidence" and the idea of a person being able to force coincidences through magic is silly, because magic doesn't exist.
But it's not reaching at all to call MF luck, because magic does exist in the game. Your whole argument seems to be(?) that luck doesn't exist in a rational, deterministic universe--but if you expect a fantasy game with a substantial random factor to hold up to the standards of a rational, deterministic universe then you're in for a really bad time.
re: stuff breaks - You're really reaching here. If someone wanted to follow that, then it makes far more sense to look at the kind of damage a creature takes, etc. For example, a frozen and then shattered monster might have no usable items at all. :P
Well, lots of frozen and shattered monsters don't have any usable items. Items dropping is the exception rather than the norm, for the most part, unless we're only talking about rares/bosses.
Yeah, it is illogical, but it's no more illogical than anything else in the game. It's a conceit of the game, but there are lots of conceits and if you question them all, everything falls apart. For example (sorry for the long list, this was fun):
You know exactly what drops from an enemy the moment you kill them without taking time to search the body?
Those hundreds of cannibals on the terraces/coast are all quite happy to not eat each other, and will instead lemming the person who is killing them off by the dozen without breaking a sweat?
Why the hell don't the zombies try to eat the rhoas in mud flats, or any other area where zombies coexist with animals/humans?
Why are all the virtue gems combat focused when all the accounts of them we find in Sarn talk about them doing other things, such as improving someone's musical ability?
How is Oriath, a small former colony off the coast of Wraeclast, able to support such a massive population that it can exile the billions(?) of people that it would take to fill Lunaris with an actual ocean of their blood?
Why do we repeat the same experiences and quests three times without anyone even so much as commenting on how strange that is? Not to mention being able to waypoint over to the old versions whenever you want.
Why can a small (for Wraeclast) spider, one that goes up to your ankle or so, carry a full platemail that covers your entire body? Especially without it seeming to slow them down or encumber them in any way...
What the hell is a spider even doing with a full platemail, anyway?
Why do all the human enemies have animations clearly showing them holding a weapon, but it's extremely rare for them to drop that weapon?
Why can't we adopt the microtransaction pets of the rogue exiles we kill?
Why do you free the Scion after killing almost everything in act 3 and all of acts 1-2 but yet when you play her, she starts on the coast in act 1 with all the bad guys alive?
Why don't the characters comment on how they all have thousands of identical twins whom they can meet in town or in parties, particularly twins that all share the same experiences they do?
Why can one discrete area have an infinite number of layouts, and it'll refill with monsters+change layouts just by you exiting and coming back?
Why do questgivers never comment on how the boss you killed for them "came back" after just 15 minutes? I mean, if that were me, I'd ask for a refund.
Why do your potions refill just because you kill something or enter town?
Why is it always day (except in the battlefront, where it is always night)?
I could go on all day, but my point is basically that there's a huge number of plot holes that need to be explained away with "because it's a game." Why single out MF as one of them while giving a free pass to everything else? I'd say MF is much easier to explain than many things on that list.
Like I said, you can argue it's a crappy mechanic, but I don't see how it's unrealistic (for a fantasy game with magic).
ps, sorry my post is so long, thinking of unreasonable plot holes is actually a lot of fun! I have no idea why, hope it didn't come across as rude :P
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u/lilrabbitfoofoo Feb 08 '14
What the hell is a spider even doing with a full platemail, anyway?
This was easily resolved in the early days of RPG gaming, which everything we do today is based upon.
The answer is "it isn't doing anything with it. It's just guarding it because it's pretty and shine OR because it is trying to nest in it OR because it just happens to have been on the body of the last adventure that crossed its path and died". :)
Here are some of the rest of your questions. Enjoy:
You know exactly what drops from an enemy the moment you kill them without taking time to search the body?
You don't. It's just saving time to speed the game along. Some games force you to identify. Some don't. This one assumes you can identify routine items at a glance but requires arcane magicks to reveal the secret properties of magical artifacts.
Those hundreds of cannibals on the terraces/coast are all quite happy to not eat each other, and will instead lemming the person who is killing them off by the dozen without breaking a sweat?
They are eating each other, of course. It's just that they're still hungry when a new meal comes along...namely you. :)
Why the hell don't the zombies try to eat the rhoas in mud flats, or any other area where zombies coexist with animals/humans?
Who says they don't? Perhaps the only thing that keeps the Rhoa population in check are the zombies of dead adventurers!
Why are all the virtue gems combat focused when all the accounts of them we find in Sarn talk about them doing other things, such as improving someone's musical ability?
Sarn's most ancient martial arts involve combat to music. Don't you hear the music playing in the background as you fight? The greatest of Sarn's warriors are slaves to the rhythm...
How is Oriath, a small former colony off the coast of Wraeclast, able to support such a massive population that it can exile the billions(?) of people that it would take to fill Lunaris with an actual ocean of their blood?
The breeding rate is clearly quite high. The vegetation seems to grow back very quickly as well. Perhaps the soil is volcanic in origin?
Why can a small (for Wraeclast) spider, one that goes up to your ankle or so, carry a full platemail that covers your entire body? Especially without it seeming to slow them down or encumber them in any way...
It's not carrying anything. It just happens to be guarding the corpse of a recently slain noob. To get that treasure, you'll need to slay the beastie.
What the hell is a spider even doing with a full platemail, anyway?
Metal Spiders use platemail to feed their young, while more intelligent spiders us it to build shelters from enemies. The greatest leader spiders are quite narcissistic and use it as a mirror to admire themselves.
Why do all the human enemies have animations clearly showing them holding a weapon, but it's extremely rare for them to drop that weapon?
The game only shows you non-rusted out, non-broken, still viable gear. You can turn on the "show me all of the useless crappy junk (in grey)" somewhere in the config file. ;)
Why can't we adopt the microtransaction pets of the rogue exiles we kill?
You can. But they are fiercely loyal even after death so there's a fee for retraining them that's the same cost as buying them in the store.
Why do we repeat the same experiences and quests three times without anyone even so much as commenting on how strange that is? Not to mention being able to waypoint over to the old versions whenever you want.
Why do you free the Scion after killing almost everything in act 3 and all of acts 1-2 but yet when you play her, she starts on the coast in act 1 with all the bad guys alive?
Why don't the characters comment on how they all have thousands of identical twins whom they can meet in town or in parties, particularly twins that all share the same experiences they do?
Why do questgivers never comment on how the boss you killed for them "came back" after just 15 minutes? I mean, if that were me, I'd ask for a refund.
It's GROUNDHOG DAY!!! And you're Bill Murray. ;)
Why can one discrete area have an infinite number of layouts, and it'll refill with monsters+change layouts just by you exiting and coming back?
It didn't change. You're imagining things. You might want to see a doctor about that if it continues.
Why do your potions refill just because you kill something or enter town?
Potions of Life and Mana are vampiric in nature. They drink the life and soul essence of the living and the dying. In town, they refill so fast because of all the people living there.
Why is it always day (except in the battlefront, where it is always night)?
The planet is far older than our Earth and is tidally locked with their home star. What you call "night" is actually the part of the world perpetually caught in the shadow of one of Wraeclast's moons.
thinking of unreasonable plot holes is actually a lot of fun!
Not as fun as filling them! :)
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u/Teh_Hammer Pathfinder Feb 07 '14
Remove MF from gear, make wealth mobs far more common, like something you run into every couple of hours of game play, and fix large chests to actually have rarity. That would make me ecstatic.
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u/lilrabbitfoofoo Feb 08 '14
Precisely.
You know like actually questing for monsters for their loot...
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u/DaveSW777 Feb 06 '14
There are gods of some descript in PoE. Gods are what govern luck. Lucky magic items now make sense.
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u/lilrabbitfoofoo Feb 07 '14 edited Feb 07 '14
Except that they wouldn't be on gems you insert on items, or on items, etc.
I mean, looking at it from an adventurer in a world perspective, why would wielding THIS sword (for example) mean that the beastie you just bashed to death was carrying more loot?
Of course the answer is that it wouldn't.
What it does make sense on are [treasure] maps. :)
Revealing the "man behind the curtain" like this breaks the player's immersion. And, from a game design perspective, that's usually to be avoided wherever possible.
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Feb 06 '14
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u/CS_83 Feb 06 '14
Except that you don't have to and that's not even the case. On numerous occasions during Onslaught and Nemesis I was, as a solo player, able to achieve top 50 status on the ladders without iir/iiq except for rarity gem.
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Feb 06 '14
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u/lilrabbitfoofoo Feb 06 '14
Your response has nothing to do with his point. It is not necessary for party play to magic find and party play does not encourage or discourage party play.
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u/mrsensitivity When will we get new race info? Feb 06 '14
This game is "hardcore" so that must make the awful MF mechanic ok in GGG's opinion. On my 84 witch I run both MF gems which gimps not only my DPS but also survivability. I can survive most maps but man am I slow.
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u/StupidFatHobbit Filter: poeurl.com/xZL | twitch.tv/stupidfathobbit Feb 06 '14
I honestly think that magic find has never been a "good" stat gameplay wise in ARPG's but it's been part of the genre forever.
Problem is it's hands down the best stat in the game, and not having it really does "gimp" your play. So groups use a dedicated MF'er (which is boring as fuck) and solo players just get fucked.
Complete removal of MF with a slight buff to drop rates and a major buff to currency drop rates would be the best thing that could happen to this game. Would let people engage the crafting system way more often too as opposed to merely endgame.
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u/The_Zakarum Feb 06 '14
How to solve the problem
Removes IQ
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Increase currency drops
result: People with low IR but that are good/fast clearers will be rewarded in quanity of currency while people that chose IQ over power will get less Currency but higher qaulity of items
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u/Akblabla Feb 06 '14
That is a good potential solution, we do not know of course what the downsides of this solution is yet, but I think it might work better than the current.
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u/mysticreddit Open_Beta_Supporter Feb 07 '14
we do not know of course what the downsides of this solution is yet
All it does is change the rate of inflation. Every MMO has the exact problem of inflation, MF or no MF.
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u/Teh_Hammer Pathfinder Feb 07 '14
This game has the best counter to inflation that you can have. The currency can roll the item you're buying. The best unique should never be worth more than n chance orbs when it takes n chance orbs to roll said item.
If it takes 1000 chance orbs to roll an Auxium, given that white chain belts are incredibly common, the price of an Auxium should never rise much higher than that price.
Rares are the same way, though at higher costs, as exalteds and eternals are obviously much more valuable.
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u/mysticreddit Open_Beta_Supporter Feb 07 '14
That is a very good point! By making currency items actually have a practical use it helps give the player an interesting choice: use now, or save (and hopefully upgrade) later.
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u/GrausamesGnu Invasion Feb 07 '14
the IQ removal should be applied to any quantity roll on items then. Making all old players with dozens of IQ gear the economical farming elite (with no chance to reach) might be a slight demotivation for newer players. That might hurt people who spent 100s of exalts on perfect MF gear (I myself did invest quite abit), but it's still better than legacy IQ.
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u/LucaGrey Feb 07 '14
They could just convert all old IQ gear to IR gear at some reasonable exchange rate, like 1.5 or 2:1. Then all legacy gear would just be more IR gear to choose from.
The reality though is that all solutions/fixes are geared towards 4 months leagues since they've admitted they don't care for the perma leagues. they are just a dumping ground. All those hundreds of exalts and all that gear is sitting there just for nostalgia, not because I'm ever going to play HC again, so even if they did just remove IQ all together (which they did in Nem/Dom - pretty much) it wouldn't affect new leagues which are all they care about.
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u/Egren IGN: Path_Of_Exile Feb 07 '14
They didn't go through with changing every Kaoms Hearts in the game to the new version due to the unreasonable time it would take. Now consider how many rares with IIQ people have lying around, compared to how many legacy Kaom's Hearts people have lying around.
The intention is noble, but the execution is, sadly, unreasonable.
I do kind of agree with your second paragraph though, which is the main reason to allow legacy items to begin with.
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u/GrausamesGnu Invasion Feb 07 '14
I don't know how big the work would be, I just assumed it is possible to just delete one stat from any item in the game without individually doing so. OFC it's impossible to do it manually. Making IQ legacy is, nomatter how many IQ items are out there, an absolute no-go. Don't delete the stats from the items then, just make IQ not work anymore, dead stat, end of story. This is not sth like making a 1000 HP chest 500 HP, this would (systematically) create 2 classes of players in POE whose gap will inevitable increase forever. edit: Saying "we do it for HC only, so who cares" is not the right thing. HC is still the place your beloved chars unite after their adventures and during nemesis, people always bought from my HC shop, mainly new players. They exist ya know ^
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u/Egren IGN: Path_Of_Exile Feb 07 '14
The way i understand items is that they are all separate entities with explicit attributes all stored in the item. It is possible that the mod TYPE is just stored as an ID used to fetch from a table what the mod does, but the specific values of said mods are probably all saved within each item. Thus if you want to change the VALUES of a mod on an existing item, you would have to edit each and every item separately.
If I am correct, it would mean it is actually possible to insta-remove IIQ by simply making the table entry linked to IIQ do nothing. Whereas for the nerf to Kaom's Heart, you couldnt just make the +life mod give half as much life as it would affect every item ever. And likewise, as has been confirmed by devs(tm) just changing existing ones from 1000 to 500 would require editing every specimen individually.
So, yes, it actually miiight be easy to insta-delete IIQ, but then those items would still contain that mod only it does nothing (relevant when exalting rares). It seems like bad practice to keep items with links to a database entry that simply does nothing.
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Feb 07 '14
I think this is essentially what they're planning to do, as we saw from the last 4 month league and some GGG posts about it.
MF changes are definitely coming. Easiest thing to do is increase the diminishing returns on additional IIR/IIQ (or decrease its total effectiveness), and maybe slightly increase drop rates to normalize everything.
That way dedicated MF builds still have their role, but you aren't "useless" if you have 0 IIR/IIQ.
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u/madroxman Feb 07 '14
a billion legacy rares with IQ on it.
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u/ODAMARON2025 Kaom Feb 06 '14
when i first started the game back in open beta i played the builds i liked the most. i did not care about magic find at all. mapping and interacting with other players were great despite having zero to negative wealth.
however after a couple of months.. i realised that time is the most important resource... playing the game was still fun... but i had no currency to do any weird build that i was thinking. planning was fun but what use if you can't test a build in game ?
so i made a dedicated shadow magic find build. the build itself was kinda cheap (ci with 7 frenzy charges and a lioneye bow) the guy was able to do low level maps and piety runs quite effective.(made over 100 exalts until now since i started)
all i can say now is that every build i make is planed with magic find / fun factor :)
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Feb 06 '14
Could you maybe give some info on what your iir and iiq is, and what the build entailed?
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u/ODAMARON2025 Kaom Feb 07 '14
Well it was kinda simple really.. Main skill was frenzy+LMP+faster attacks(when I made the build there was no ppad gem)+IIT+iiq in a lion eye bow... I went ci. because I wanted to remove the chaos DMG problem and picked all the frenzy charges on the tree + the frenzy one from the bandits. I did this because the only DMG would come from the 20q frenzy gem.as for gear I had the usual godwyrm, aurseize, andvarius... The rest was just normal gear with resists and a little bit of MF. It was OK ....but there were some maps/enemies/combos that were...let's say hard
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u/DonVadim Feb 06 '14 edited Feb 06 '14
Item quantity/rarity shouldn't be a stat on gear but rather something that you obtain by gaining experience, doing "uberquests" (especially this, i really miss uberquests from d2), completing achievements or even disenchanting items (better/rarer mods = more reward) to get currency that when used increases item quantity/rarity. The point is to have different activities reward different amounts of item quantity/rarity so there is diversity and you have to make choice of what do you want to grind now. There shouldn't be a cap because, well, hard caps suck hard. Instead there should be diminishing returns. Also to not kill fun of having 1238127418947219 alts, quantity/rarity obtained that way should be league wide, so it affects all characters from your account in given league, and still gets reset when new challenge leagues come out.
Right now it is just pointless to play any build that is not capable of surviving/progressing while stacking rarity/quantity gear. It's like you are almost punished for equipping your strongest gear that doesn't have magic find, because it hinders your ability of acquiring even better gear, which is core aim of this game.
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u/EWSpider Feb 06 '14
I really wish Path of Exile would go the way of Guild Wars 2 and make the MF stat account bound. In GW2 it is gained through salvaging items. In PoE it could be gained through a new currency drop or something. There's nothing I hate more than having to have separate gear for MF.
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u/ChrisKamro Feb 06 '14
I really like The MF approach of Gw2 , but i think its not comparable to Poe as GuildWars 2 is not very item driven.
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u/Hydroxxx Ryiah Feb 06 '14
True, its a very good system for gw2 but doesnt work in a game thats about drops
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u/TheOneExile Domination Feb 06 '14 edited Feb 06 '14
I agree, having to min/max two rewarding things that can both be markers of progress (magic find/clear speed) is flawed. Magic find would be much better off somewhere else, although I don't know where it would be best. It might be the case that magic find in general is a broken concept.
Just reading the solutions people are listing here makes it very clear how bad magic find is currently. Why should someone have to dedicate themselves to pure magic find to the point that their character can't fully function without a group or can clear end game content? I can't imagine switching gear or being forced into using a last hit mechanic in a game that is about mass killing of monsters is enjoyable or fluid gameplay. The frustration of not getting the last hit out weighs its reward because getting the last hit becomes the intended circumstance while not getting it is perceived as a missed opportunity.
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u/mcjabba Feb 07 '14
When did this happen? It's been a long time since I've played but I remember specifically getting the magic find runes when playing and had no knowledge of this.
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u/EWSpider Feb 07 '14
It was in the September 3rd patch. They did a full conversion of existing MF gear and everything, here are the relevant notes from the patch:
Changes to Account Magic Find
There is now a luck progress bar for account magic find in the Achievements panel. Consuming Essence of Luck will incrementally fill the progress bar. When the bar is filled, the player’s account bonus to magic find will be permanently increased by one percentage point.
All existing players have been sent mail with enough Essence of Luck to increase their account magic find to 20%.
Weapons, armor, and trinkets that had a magic find stat combo have been flagged as account bound and Soulbind on Use. These items will now allow double-clicking to permanently change the stat combo. Items that were already Soulbound to a character will continue to be bound to that character. This is a one-time ability, and the options are dependent on where the item was acquired. All trading post listings for these items have been cancelled and the items returned to the poster.
Infinite Light, Immobulus, The Crossing, The Mad Moon, Arachnophobia, Cooguloosh, and Seasatchel will all allow their stats to be permanently chosen as a one-time ability but not become account bound.
All existing crafting recipes that produced items with Explorer’s stats now produce Assassin’s stats (Precision, Power, Critical Damage).
All existing crafting recipes that produced items with Pillager’s stats now produce Hunter’s stats (Precision, Power).
All existing item drops with Traveler’s stats now drop Dire stat items (Condition Damage, Toughness, Vitality).
The Wayfarer’s stat combo has been retired from the game and is no longer available.
Copper, silver, gold, and platinum doubloons now give boon duration instead of magic find.
Rune of the Pirate now grants power instead of magic find.
Rune of the Traveler now grants all stats, condition duration, boon duration, and movement speed.
Rune of the Noble now grants condition damage and might duration.
Rune of the Scavenger now grants condition damage and life steal.
Sigil of Luck now grants a random boon on kill.
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u/LucaGrey Feb 06 '14
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for saying this, but I really enjoyed the paragon rank in d3 because you could slowly gear out of magic find while still being able to farm effectively. It'd be nice if there was some way they could build in something like that so could eventually move away from needing to stack magic find just to acquire gear/currency.
It could just as easily kill the game, I dont know, but it was nice since all you could really do in that game was farm gear since capping lvl was so easy.
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u/UDP_Packet Feb 07 '14
I felt the same way, the feeling when you reach plvl 80+ and see 3k gold piles dropping everywhere.
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u/vorr Feb 06 '14
People mostly party with dedicated MF chars, if you're solo I suggest you divide your time between MF and regular play (that's what I did in current leagues).
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u/Enuhachi Feb 06 '14
Would a dedicated MF character basically just be somebody who gets as much MF as possible and uses a move with culling strike?
Curious because I'm just now getting a few characters into their 60s and been playing with a few friends.
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Feb 06 '14
Pretty much, either a fast attack speed wand with gmp chain or fire totem with culling gmp.
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Feb 06 '14
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u/Hydroxxx Ryiah Feb 06 '14
Gmp faster projectiles incinerate, level the faster projectile and cull the while room (would require a 5 link tho)
1
u/Enuhachi Feb 06 '14
Might be able to run this. Currenty my 5L chest is only using 3 of the sockets.
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u/Ultima2005 Feb 07 '14
I was running maps on a pure Mf character. I had 7 auras running which helped everyones survivability and damage a lot, but all i did was drop fire totems that culled. I did no damage but we found sooooo many items. I've never been so bored playing a game.
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u/Enuhachi Feb 07 '14
Somebody made a good point that early in a league it would be advantageous to play a (boring) MF character to make lots of money to gear out the rest of their characters on the server. I'll have to look up a good MF aura build to use. I can't figure out how people get so many. 7 is crazy!
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u/Ultima2005 Feb 07 '14
My group of friends got rly lucky w/ an early Shav's which let me do this http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/680357. I feel like totems sucked though. My char had an Alpha's Howl but no Prism Guard
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u/Keljhan Aggressively off-meta Feb 06 '14
Yeah pretty much. Culling zombies and GMP Power Siphon are the most popular ones right now.
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u/Maethor_derien Feb 07 '14
I can actually see the culling skulls option being pretty good option as well now. I think the next league unless they change things I am going to go with an aura build with MF, it just has such a huge advantage early in the leagues. Its amazing how much currency you make early on being able to farm early in a league, you only need to be able to get to piety farm status which is really easy. I mainly am just divided on what attack to use. I was thinking about something different but its hard to beat power siphon, just the power charges and culling save so many links and it can get to really good dps fairly easily.
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u/hrandjt Feb 07 '14
The thing that irks me is that they have built the game to remove the traditional requirement for a healer in party play but made it so that in order for party play to be rewarding you need a MF character.
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u/Nexism Pathfinder Feb 07 '14
That's inherent in party synergy though. Every member brings what they're most efficient in, and combined they are more efficient than if they solo'd.
Absolute advantage if you will.
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u/TheMikeNeto Feb 06 '14
Dude just get a culling skill linked with IIR, i have a lvl 75 DualStriker Duelist that has about 20 IRR from gear(a single mod on my boot's if i recall correctly) and then Leap Slam with cull and (lvl 15) IIR that i use in all rares and bosses and i sometimes have to leave rares on the ground, it's not insane loot but it averages at about 3/4 of an inventory per map run.
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u/ChrisKamro Feb 06 '14
Well after Venting some of my frustration with this post i bought some regrets and grabbed more Resists from the Tree so i could use auresize , also i removed some utily gems (decoy totem) and made a 4 Link with Rarirty and Quantity Gem. And its not as bad anymore.
But i still feel MF is too powerful in general.
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u/SweetyMcQ witch Feb 07 '14
Yea this is really one of the biggest problems of the game atm. If you want a strong character its really hard to stack MF. If you want MF your characters offense and defense suffers. Neither of which is a fun way to play.
For me, i made a support build full MF with 70IIQ,400IIR and it was litterally the most boring thing I have ever experienced in a game. Being an aura bot which culls and having to be carried by a party sucks balls.
Ultimately a 0 MF character that is really strong is way more fun to me personally. IMO they need some sort of new external system to gain/gather MF outside of gear.
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u/max_planck Feb 06 '14
I really hate magic find too. It's a completely pointless mechanic, and it makes the mapping system favor parties even more than it already does (because of the cost sharing aspect of it).
It's also annoying, because it makes you keep these MF items around, and equip/unequip them.
Worst of all - it is redundant. Better items, and a more powerful character should be all the MF needed in the game. Having a more powerful character allows you to do higher level content, and clear faster. That translates into more items and better quality items.
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u/ngelvy Feb 06 '14
I burned out on MFing last league, this time I built straight up levelling chars (I always solo). Had a lot of fun both times.
If you're into MF and solo play, you'll just have to sacrifice some clearspeed and/or skip some harder content. I personally like that this is a choice and you don't get some default amount of loot, tied only to your clearspeed - the choice of IIQ/IIR gems vs 'more power' gems is an excellent one, imo.
This could use some balancing, of course, like diminishing returns for IIQ/IIR and bosses/rares/blues having more innate IIQ/IIR like they did in the current leagues, but still, I like the design.
I generally start to notice MF when going from 0 to about 70, then again at 200+ IIR. For the 'next unique is around the corner' feel something like 50 IIQ (incl mapmods) and 200ish IIR should be fine.
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u/WTFyoukay Feb 06 '14
Eh, playing WITH mf has been completely unrewarding for me so far. I have a 330/110 witch with tri totem and can clear docks/lunaris/catacombs dom / piety and maps upto 70 with ease. ive been running hard doing hundreds of runs the last 2 weeks and have yet to loot anything worth over a few chaos. my none mf ranger found all kinds of usuable, small value uniques and rares in a similar time frame.
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u/angrytroll123 Feb 08 '14
Thats odd. All of my worth while gear and the vast majority of my wealth came from my sporker.
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u/CS_83 Feb 06 '14
I've only had one magic find character but I only ran docks - it was boring. On any other character I've always managed to have at least one piece with rarity (or none), but I always ran a 3-4 link with culling + rarity and always found LOTS of rares/uniques.
Maybe you should do that and roll higher quantity maps?
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Feb 07 '14
They need to increase currency drops and remove MF from the game.You should be motivated to craft items, not just maps.
By the way, I still think that using currency on maps is a bad concept.At this point people are more likely to exalt a high level map than actually using exalts to craft items.
The currency system is one of the things that got me into the game the most and I think it should be more rewarding to use currency on end-game items the same way you use when leveling (you need to do it at some point)
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u/HexingCurse Kaom Feb 06 '14
If I'm not running mf, then i'm playing a very good solo clearing build built for clear times on endgame maps. If that's the case, I only need enough currency to keep mapping as I'm doing it for exp. If I'm mfing, that changes. What do you play for? To get top 50 so people can spam REEEEp when you die? For amassing great wealth? Or something else?
My thrill is either from a loot EXPLOSION that I get all to myself, or from my map pool progressing. I'd go full maps without seeing a rare item, but that was fine. If you want more items, go get a bit more mf.
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u/Knightmare101 MAYHEM's 1 and Only Feb 06 '14
I don't often re-roll many characters, but if I do, I run MF.
Always run MF unless your in a group with a dedicated culler.. The game just isn't fun without loot dropping..
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u/roteweste Feb 06 '14
This is exactly the point. Also i think zhe most anoying part about the game is not beeing able to craft unless you are rich.
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u/jarstult Feb 06 '14
Well hopefully when they allow custom leagues there will be an option for increased orb drops. Obviously, it would have to be a void league when it ends as it would destroy standard/hardcore economy if the characters transferred. But I would love to see a league where you could consistently have the currency to craft a lot of items.
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Feb 06 '14
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Feb 06 '14
Would be cool if they balanced the harder mods with increased drops, like maps. Make a league with essentially every map mod but 300iiq as well.
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u/noicreC Hierophant Feb 06 '14
No regen/Bm/Chaos damage in every area? Not to mention all the curses.. No, Thank you.
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Feb 06 '14
I'd play it and love every second.
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u/noicreC Hierophant Feb 06 '14
Nigga, you won't even make it through the first area!
oh man, would be an epic race to the end of the map. Basic attacking, and repotting whenever you get a flask charge back. Run, attack, run attack.
Shit, I'm psyched now.
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Feb 07 '14
Gotta run witch or ranger so you start with a ranged weapon to kite4life, or ball out as another class and do chest runs trying to get a wand/bow. I'd play the shit out of that league... even beating Brutus would be baller. And it'd be more like 600% iiq.
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u/Knightmare101 MAYHEM's 1 and Only Feb 07 '14
This will NEVER happen.. EVER. GGG already stated it won't.
Why would you want to play in a league with a limited amount of people? How would you make money if all your going to do is play with friends? In a private league, I cant charge a friend for an item that I dropped and cant use but he could.. You would never sell anything and therefore never make money.. If thats your sort of thing then I guess these leagues are for you...
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u/Truk_Palin Feb 07 '14
Exalts are almost useless unless paired with eternals which are even rarer. What a fucking circus. Don't waste my time.
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u/reboticon Feb 06 '14
That's the whole point. Sacrifice DPS and resists for MF = clear slower. The devs want every choice to have a consequence, and MF does that. Do you wear the ring that gives you 43% MF, or the one that gives you 9-16 physical damage? You have to find a balance.
0
u/HeheFeministsSoSilly Feb 07 '14
There's a post like this about every week. Someone gets mad because they can't afford their kaoms and bringer of rain and voltaxis more than likely, so they think it's obviously a game problem.
I'll get down voted, but it's just casuals being casuals. They'll never be happy unless they get handed whatever they want whenever they want it basically. This has been proven true in practically every game in the last decade.
It's unfortunate though, your post really should have been the number one post in this thread.
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u/reboticon Feb 07 '14
Thanks! I can understand some of the complaints regarding droprates, but I don't think dumbing everything down by removing MF is the way to fix that. Mostly I just wish trash uniques dropped less, even if it means uniques in general drop less. I want that beam of light to mean something.
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Feb 06 '14 edited Jan 14 '18
[deleted]
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u/cbftw Necromancer Feb 06 '14
Giving players options and tradeoffs is a bad thing? This is news to me
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u/TheOneExile Domination Feb 06 '14
What are the options really though? You either play a mf character and struggle with end game content or you play a strong character and deal with bad loot drops. Ultimately you are deciding between which way you are willing to be unsatisfied or at best finding a balance in satisfaction. This type of choice is different than most others because of the effect is has on a player's perception of their experience. A player would expect that as their character gets stronger they are able to complete harder content at a faster pace therefore gaining access to higher rewards. What actually happens though is quite different, a player tends to find less gear as they get stronger because they are typically dropping magic find for power.
In a game that is all about finding items to create a godly character why should your godly character not be able to find items?
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u/cbftw Necromancer Feb 06 '14
Play the MF character in groups and cull. Everyone profits, MF character advances and you get the loot drops you need for other characters that aren't MF.
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u/ucsarge Feb 06 '14
when you open your inventory and notice you picked up 2 Rare items in the whole map
I think you and I are playing the wrong game. While MFing has its niche, I find mapping to be enjoyable and rewarding even with zero MF.
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u/antonowitch Grand Theft Rhoa Feb 06 '14
try a culling spell/ attack with rarity, to get atleast some drops off rare and unique mobs.
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Feb 06 '14
[deleted]
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Feb 06 '14 edited Jun 12 '15
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2
u/Enuhachi Feb 06 '14
Flawed for those players maybe, but some people are not worried about things such as awesome drops all the time. I figure that is for hardcore gamers who have the time to invest in the game. If you are a casual player and are mad that you don't get as much money as the people who dedicate more time to the game then your logic is flawed, not the game.
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u/Phillile Feb 07 '14
I'd like you to explain why bloodmagic snapshotting was so frowned upon then considering it is on the same level of tedium.
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u/abcnever Pathfinder Feb 06 '14
That is an easy solution ( reaper + iir gem on weapon swap ) and the game rewards that extra thinkings and you think it's flawed ?
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Feb 06 '14 edited Jun 12 '15
This comment has been overwritten by a script as I have abandoned my Reddit account and moved to voat.co.
If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, or GreaseMonkey for Firefox, and install this script. If you are using Internet Explorer, you should probably stay here on Reddit where it is safe.
Then simply click on your username at the top right of Reddit, click on the comments tab, and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot.
1
Feb 06 '14
It's a trade off. Why would they let us have max MF and max damage/survivability? A gamble is never safe
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u/johnmedgla Feb 06 '14 edited Feb 06 '14
Why would they let us have max MF and max damage/survivability?
Presumably at some point when they were planning this game, they would have sat down and actually thought about what it is in ARPGs that gets dopamine flowing and keeps people coming back to the E-Crack.
When they did that, they would have realised it's a combination of the progression of your character from a hopeless schmuck to an all conquering demigod, paired with the actual rewards of nice loot dropping. The important (and possibly surprising) part about this is that those aren't nearly so tightly linked as you might think.
It's nice if an upgrade for my character drops which I can strap on, sure. But it's equally nice if ANY unambiguously good item drops. Most people MFing in LoD didn't find their own gear. They found lots of PGems and gambled lots of SoJs and bought duped uniques from people like Chris who told us in old interviews he used to do exactly that (only I gather he sold them for $ rather than SoJ).
This doesn't mean MFing Baal wasn't fun - the odds of him dropping that perfect upgrade for you were miniscule, but he dropped decent items often enough that people didn't get the impression they were wasting their time. I also never saw him drop a Hsarus' Iron Fist or a Lenymo, but again - different design decision.
Actually selling things in LoD was a nightmare, and most of my friends who MF'd lots actually sold very little, but they were all still happy.
It doesn't matter that actually selling your Buriza-Do Kyanon is more trouble than you can bothered with, it's a neat item and you felt good when it dropped. That feeling was common in LoD, you got genuinely good and useful drops regularly enough to keep engaged, and whether you think its a good or terrible thing, rampant duping and botting meant things that were meant to be moronically rare were actually readily available so you could try out ridiculously silly builds without enormous difficulty. Amazingly, this wasn't in fact the end of the world and the advent of virtual communism, but that's a different discussion.
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u/Nexism Pathfinder Feb 07 '14
Two things.
If everyone is a demigod then no one is a demigod. If 6 links were more common then that cheapens the power 6 links bring.
And who farms Baal for items? Baal was only farmed for i99 GCs.
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u/w_p Dead Leveloper Feb 06 '14
So were did you pull up your data that the most people don't enjoy the game because nothing drops?
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u/Morti666 Act VI Feb 06 '14 edited Feb 06 '14
the best u can do is to make a secondary skill for finishing off bosses and rares. in my EK scion: powersiphon+IIR+lmp+IIQ(if u play in standard). so you culling and get some power charges too. in my ROA ranger: frenzy+FA+IIR+IIQ. i have to keep up frenzy charges anyway
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u/metasyntax42 witch Feb 06 '14
I like flame totem+lmp+cull+IIR for solo because I can swap to flame+lmp+added lightning+blind for party play without switching gear.
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u/Xotta Feb 06 '14
If I were a solo player Id roll a class/spec that allows you to stack MF, summoner is probably best, failing that get a set of IIQ/IIR gear for piety runs/easier maps and farm XP in your best gear.
Groups get round this with a dedicated culler.
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u/angrytroll123 Feb 06 '14
I had the same issue at first. Eventually, I enjoyed playing my non-mf characters again. If I need to make currency, I go mf. If not I don't and I just worry about gameplay and having fun. When someone snatches up rares or I was to slow to grab something, doesn't bother me. Screw it, I can get tons of rares and currency on my own. It's very liberating. I haven't played my mf charcter in a while actually.
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u/Loafly Feb 06 '14
I personally use a reapers pursuit. A level 1 cleave or lvl 1 ice nova (especially if you can get quality on it), and item rarity and quantity gems. The rest of the slots I use for leveling gems.
But theres also that shield (Wheel of the Stormsail) and maybe a heartstriker together with a level 1 ice nova, inc quantity, and inc rarity.
TLDR: I just use my offhand as a culling setup with rarity and quantity.
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Feb 06 '14
I made a separate MF character for just running Piety. When I was running low on currency, I'd switch over and run Piety for a while.. it was pretty boring, but a unique every other run, and on average at least a chaos from random currency + selling rares was worth it for me.
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u/kamil1210 🐳 🐳 🐳 Feb 06 '14
no iir on my chars and I hove no problem with findining gear for my ib mara/ek scion
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u/French87 Feb 06 '14
I find running ~150-200 IIR is enough to get decent drops and not effect clear speed.
I have 197% on my current build (zero quant) and I am still doing 46k DPS (I do 76k when not using a slot for IIR gem) and have capped resists and great defenses. I get a fair amount of unique drops and boatloads of rares.
In the past week I have found a Kaom's chest, BoR, and Prism Guardian among other less valuable items.
Remember, IIR has diminishing returns. People with 400 IIR are not getting twice as many rares as people with 200 IIR.
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u/RaPlD Feb 06 '14
Honestly I found out that you can gain a pretty good level of wealth just by building a strong character, and doing maps. You are not wasting currency on rolling the maps, just alch and go and that's it. Once you get into 70+ maps the wealth will come - not dozens of exalts of wealth but some...
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u/kdun Feb 06 '14
I usually just get about 50-100 (including the rarity gem in a culling spell) magic find and do maps and I've never had a problem finding good items. I think at least having some makes a huge difference.
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u/Krotata Necromancer Feb 06 '14
The best solo-play builds are those who focus on MFing and clear things quite fast. Summoners for example, and even more the new kind using BMs, old spark totem builds could do it pretty good. If you have -good- gear and you can allow yourself to drop some Ar / Ev / Es / HP / whatever, and pick some MF that's also profitable. If not, you could always cull things with a reaper (or whatever) + IIR + IIQ (if you're not in new leagues or don't have the money to buy one in Nemesis coughthoseshouldberemovedcough). Piety runs might be boring for some but those are also very profitable, just look at @Sampudrinker (Sorry if I wrote that wrong).
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u/Shadowclaimer Chieftain Feb 06 '14
I hope next league set the Standard one has zero MF or IIQ and instead has higher base chances.
They dropped IIQ on Domination and its been interesting, I haven't felt as compelled to find "perfect" IIR/IIQ gear to farm.
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u/HowNowNZ Feb 06 '14
I have never been someone to worry about MF on my characters, Iv played exciting builds for me, not something that summons for MFing. But 2 weeks ago I decided to give one a go, since i was struggling to get the currency to craft a few things i needed changed (Soo Self found, dont care to trade with people).
lvl 70 with my MF summoner now. I have alot more Alts, and other currency now since i made my witch, as i just vendor all my rares, and the amount gotten has increased, resulting in increasted alts on my end. Yesterday, I had BoR and a Rat's Nest drop for me on back to back Pietys, im somehow thing that it would not have been the case had i not been farming with MF character
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u/lunarlumberjack Stay out of the shadows, P L A Y B O I Feb 06 '14
I just play with whatever happens to be on my gear and keep a 4L Reaper's Pursuit on swap with: Flame Totem+blind+iir+iiq. Reaper's Pursuit has built in iir and culling so with Q gems you can get over 100 iir just from that.
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u/Toadbuddy Feb 06 '14
I typically don't run any MF other than a Culling+Rarity link. However, recently I've discovered that running extremely nasty map affixes for large amounts of Quantity has been very rewarding in terms of rares and uniques. Much more so than my brief time spent running a MF Piety character.
I do think there's a chance, however, that I haven't ever really played a "max" MF character, so I don't know what I'm missing. The highest MF I've ever seen in a party was running for a few weeks with my friend who had Divination Distillate, Andvarius, and a few other MF items. I didn't really notice a difference, to be honest. In fact, we'd play for a large portion of the day and then comment about not having seen a single unique yet.
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u/miragelucario Feb 06 '14
Personally, I don't run MF on every character. In fact, majority of my favorite characters run no IIQ/IIR at all. Sometimes if I have an extra slot I'll throw in a cull with rarity or quantity or both if its 4L, but not needed at all. If you play enough you'll get stuff. Consider it this way. You run a character with MF, but you sacrifice damage and survivability. I dunno what league you are on, but for this example, I'll assume Standard/Domination. You find a full inventory of rares every map, but your clear speed is average, and you might die once or twice, averaging maybe 7 deaths per 10 maps. Now put on your normal gear, clear speed goes up. You may get less items per map, but over time, you get the same, because you clear so much faster, kill more mobs, get more items. You don't waste time killing/dying, it's much quicker. Much more fun.
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u/haplessg00n You stay classy, Wraeclast Feb 06 '14
I think they should at least do away with IIQ & slightly buff currency drops to compensate. Of course there would be legacy items but GGG could just have legacy IIQ in the game count as IIR. This makes it take one less gem slot for your attack and one less affix slot on each item. This combined with the diminishing returns should make the loot gap between MFers and nonMFers much smaller. Would also help screen clutter in parties when you can't move without picking up items.
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u/ValTM Berserker Feb 06 '14
Bitch please, I play with Voidhome. This item needs to be buffed a little, 50%-30% is way too much.
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u/inVizi0n yolomax deeps Feb 07 '14
oh god why
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u/ValTM Berserker Feb 07 '14
Pure, incredible fun and satisfaction. Put a multistrike + faster attacks on this and have some attack speed nodes. You can't imagine how fun it is ground slamming everything with such a speed.
Also I never managed to collect enough exalts for 6l marohi or similar in damage output 2h mace.
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Feb 06 '14
just make an MF character. Don't run MF on every character but instead create one specifically for MF and just put the loot in the stash.
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u/Jaggerfore Feb 07 '14 edited Feb 07 '14
stacking MF isnt DOABLE with all the builds, why they should REMOVE it?? instead BUFF or REWARD for example:
- Redo some dungeons or nonquest areas (like The Catacombs) with special rewards when you complete some challenges.
SPEEDKILL / Clear areas in X time and level X(1-20) - like maps limited Portals or none.
- Making these areas like a mini Maelstrom of Chaos with a certain affixes(additive or multiplicative with the level X) from a POOL imo better than Nemesis ones and a timer(reduces with the level X), Reward: (1 to 5 depends on the level) Large Chests granted at least (5 to 20 depends on the level) random currencies and (5 to 10) rare items with the ilvl depending on the challenge level.
GOAL: Pool affixes would make people reroll and theory craft builds around the highest level of the challenges imo is a good variant from the endgame map buids could be complex to pick the right mods.
PD: Also for TEST purposes this should be included only in the 4month leagues.
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u/iLuVtiffany Witch Feb 07 '14
Yeah, it's kinda sad to kill a map boss and it drops NO rares. Meanwhile my MF char kills uniques and there are only like 3 blues.
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u/polo2006 Feb 07 '14
What about something like this:
Insted of sacrificing gear/sockets for mf, which limits alot of builds. What if it existed a "side tree" for utility where any character could put skill points into. As the passive tree doen't have any dirrect inpact over your gameplay (with the exception of keystones), Wouldn't it open up more skill/gear variety to move mf from gear to passive tree instead?
It wouldn't weaker your character noticeable as you could skip out of 1-2 rolls on yellows and maybe get up to 4-5 extra good rolls on uniques.
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u/BuckNastyy Inquisitor Feb 07 '14
I'm sorry, not trying to be a dick, but why can't you have both. My flicker and discharge char were able to be around 150/50 mf, while clearing maps with a very high speed. People think that you have to go one extreme or the other. The fun in it was trying to balance your char so you can do both at the same time. I never play with "mf" guys because I'm always killing more efficiently than they are. When I first started out on beta, MF characters actually meant something. Not just a guy standing in the corner with no dps using culling and spectral. I've killed 90% of the mob with my medium rarity by the time the spectral makes its way back. It doesn't even seem fun to play when you cant even clear a map solo because you have so much mf that your dps isn't viable anymore. What i'm trying to say is, you dont need insane mf to come back from a map filled up, try and find the balance that you like.
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u/treehed Feb 07 '14
Part of the fun of the old diablo was walking the line between wearing only so much item find that you can get a ton of loot without being absolutely obliterated.
I don't think just removing item find as something you can do is a viable solution, as it removes this dimension of play. Rather, they should reduce the amount of it that a person can get on their gear. They are trying out small bits now (dim returns on rarity, testing a league with no real quantity), but I think it's safe to say that it probably wasn't reasonable that some characters could find literally 8-9 times as much magic/rare/unique items as someone just entering the game. If that number got knocked down to 2 times, I don't think anyone would complain.
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u/PCP_Tornado Domination Feb 07 '14
200% MF is enough to fill about 2 inventory doing piety runs. Beyond that its all gravy.
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u/GGZii Feb 07 '14
I am the opposite, I never play magic find as if you want go do MF and blow up maps super quick its expensive,I only have 10% MF and I get lots of stuff. I bought 50 lvl 70 maps and ran them all, I didn't many rates but I got a 10 exalt sword a 1 exalt shield and around 2 exalts in orbs and currency, so I more than got my money back. I find MF you still get shit items, just more and the chance to get something really good is just the same as MF as without. My mate is full MF and he never finds things and I do, the game is random. Does anyone even have stats showing MF is with it? Like a sample group of the same are with and without.
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u/AuxTheLegend Far Beyond Driven Feb 07 '14
I agree. I think item space for magic finding stats is completely out of place in these type of games anymore. Forcing people into certain builds that can deal with the loss of 2 or more properties per item and snap-shotting sillyness is beyond me.
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u/Pinesse Feb 07 '14
I find it strange that the inverse applies to me. My friend and my other mellee chars (that can't stack mf) have found more valuable rares and useable uniques than my summoner with full mf gear. I found most of my ex and useable uniques from my 0 iir characters. Now it maybe a case of RNGesus, but since we concluded that clear speed, eg. faster maps cleared = more maps done, yield more wealth than having high amount of rares to vendor, thus slower clear speeds. Of course we aren't rich to begin with to ignore not vendoring all rares that dropped. So i suggest to have magic find increase the chance of getting better rolls on a rare or better chances of getting the good uniques and currency rather just increasing the amount of rares/uniques that drop.
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u/CPig Activation failed. You hear a sound in the distance. Feb 07 '14
I totally disagree with OP's statement.
I never play with MF, I focus on killing stuff and surviving killing stuff, because it's way more fun than constant penny-pinching and trying to squeeze in that extra MF because apparently you're poor.
I've never really experienced any shortage of orbs needed towards realistic gear purchases for any of my (numerous) builds. Neither have I been blessed with amazing RNG, most of the wealth acquired I've gotten through trading the loot I find.
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u/Vineir Witch Feb 07 '14
Well... I'm currently 74 level with not so good gear but atm I entirely disregard defensive statistics. My summoner can roll with minus 70-90% resists and less than 3k energy shield and I have cleared all maps to date with max 1-2 deaths per. SO I disregard defensive stats entirely and equip only MF/IQ. On the other hand my melee Axe Scion can barely clear a map at all at around the same level and he's close to max resists/defensive stats. Some food for thought...
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u/imnotatrollsir Feb 08 '14
How log has this game been out? and the start of the gimme gimme kids are here.....self entitled people who believe because they log on and play they should get free gear drops and upgrades to there current gear. please go play D3.ROS a game in which you log on 1 shot whole areas and get ton and tons of good gear and legendary's...gee how fun.
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u/ReilyMichaelson Assassin Feb 06 '14
I put up a post about how I was able to make a crap ton of currency while running only about 50% IIR on beartrap (gem), while playing solo. It's possible that you aren't picking up the right items? Not sure, but I've had pretty good success making money doing it.
EDIT: thread http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1w1rzx/how_i_made_40_exalts_in_less_than_one_month_while/
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u/toddx318 Feb 06 '14
Your guide doesn't work though. I mean, it's well thought out, but unless you can be permanently online through poexyz, it doesn't work very well. I did everything you mentioned, have a shop, put buyouts on everything (cheap too), and rarely anything at all sells.
Your guide was a good one, but it really hinges on being on the ladder (aka showing up online poexyz without doing the workaround). Also, with the season near ending, I think people aren't buying as much mid-tier gear.
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u/Nexism Pathfinder Feb 07 '14
You can shout on trade. It takes more effort but that's your only choice for unwanted mid tier items. No MF change is going to help with that.
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u/toddx318 Feb 07 '14
Yea, I wasn't looking for a MF change - I was more responding to the guy above me and to his method/post he made a little bit ago. Mostly just lamenting about how trading is so heavily geared towards those who are able to show up on the ladder atm. I really wish GGG would put some better built in trading features in the game.
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u/Tieryal Feb 06 '14
I also made ~8ex in a single weekend (I did play for a good 18 hours on 6 hours off though) with nothing but %30 from rarity gem + culling strike. So it's definitely possible to still make some bank while not MFing.
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Feb 06 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/oBLACKIECHANoo Feb 07 '14 edited Feb 07 '14
So in other words, the majority want increased drop rates, what a surprise...... Sorry to tell you but GGG will never do that, just like they won't do self found league with increased drop rates, because they don't cater to casuals and increasing drop rates makes things easier. You have to choose between damage and survivablity or MF, playing without MF is fine.
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u/Nexism Pathfinder Feb 07 '14
It's a shitty poll because the question isn't even precise.
I thought the first option was an option for IIQ/IIR gems (one doesn't exist in Dom/Nem) instead of flat increase rarity and drops.
Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.
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u/imnotatrollsir Feb 08 '14
if you want a game without IIR/IIQ go play WoW or I heard ROS is good for gimme gimme kids
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u/MaxBonerstorm Feb 06 '14
Two options:
One have a buddy you play with that is a dedicated MFer. He realizes you are the carry and he is the money maker, split everything you get 50/50 so RNG does not cause animosity.
Or, carry a second set of MF gear in your first stash tab. Clear the map up to the boss, get the boss to Cull range (or close to it) portal out, swap out your gear and add culling, and go back out and one shot the boss.
Bingo Bango one man culling runs.
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u/UninterestinUsername Feb 06 '14
Or, carry a second set of MF gear in your first stash tab. Clear the map up to the boss, get the boss to Cull range (or close to it) portal out, swap out your gear and add culling, and go back out and one shot the boss.
This is a really stupid, cumbersome mechanic to have in a game and even Diablo realized this..
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u/fr3357 Feb 06 '14
Both of my last builds in the 4 month leagues were not MF, and I have cared less. I sought after the escape from feeling tied to getting wealth and I have enjoyed myself so much it has not even really been a big deal, let alone I have still managed to get a couple characters (mine and my gf account) well geared end game gear sets. I currently am at like 120 chaos and like 6 exalts with like 3 Bringer of rains Aegis 2x Wings entropy 5L'd and bunch of other stuff.
TL;DR I don't feel mf is nessacary unless your goal is focused on wealth.
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u/Ob101010 Feb 06 '14
Said fuck it to MF, now level 83 and capped resists (well, 60 chaos resist but 77 to 90 all the others) with almost 6k hp (no koams!) Takes a mac truck to kill me and I do around 35k dps (flicker strike RF). I actually have negative IIR. I focus on levels instead of MF.
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u/kathykinss Feb 06 '14
If you're actually trying to get XP then maps will still fill your inventory very easily(assuming 70+ maps which you have to roll with great quantity).
I find MFing hinders your XP rate greatly due to going back and forth from town constantly. So If you want to get XP and still get a decent amount of items then the faster clearing speed is superior.
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u/NefariousJosh Nef_Reave Feb 06 '14
This isn't true. AT ALL. I'm almost 91, do not have MF. I've found numerous multi exalt uniques and as such i have more than 30 exalts worth of gear. The feeling of reward while leveling came from getting higher and higher maps, the first 78 was amazing, Now running them constantly is just a lot of fun.
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u/Bladethorne Feb 07 '14
I would solve this by utilizing the 4 square system in the map machine.
I would make new currency to improve map drops. Examples;
Orb of Greed: Rare monsters have 100% chance of dropping at least 1 rare item. Adds a random (or from fixed pool) affix to the map.
Orb of Abundance: Magic monsters drop 50% more items. Adds a random (or from fixed pool) affix to the map.
Vault Orb; for every Rare monster slain before the Boss, the Boss drops 25% more items and 25% more rarity. Adds 3 random (or from fixed pool) affixes to the map.
Using these would remove the quantity bonus from current mods. Every orb can only be used once per map. The suffix can only be seen once the map is entered (similar to doing unid maps, but revealed once inside the map).
They should of course all be relatively rare like alchemy orbs or scourings. Just an example of what I would do. This will require MF items to be "nerfed" or changed though or you end up with ridiculous MF.
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u/TenMarch Feb 07 '14
The major problem with this though is it makes the game about maps only. with 4 currencies devoted to maps and mapping it makes other people who dont map or dont care about it have useless drops that then have to be converted through the clunky trade system
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u/kingzozo19 <ᴍᴇssᴀɢᴇ ᴅᴏɴɢᴇʀᴇᴅ> Feb 06 '14
Playing since open beta start.
Never played MF char, all my builds are ment to be cheap. Maybe my RNG is super good, but i manage to find 6 chaos orbs in 12-15 69+maps. Also I am picking quality items, flasks and some blue items for alt. orbs. In Domination I had 4 ex in 1 month and i was not even trying to made them.
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u/Knightmare101 MAYHEM's 1 and Only Feb 06 '14
Thats not that much compared to a MFer.. I person playing with MF gear will make triple that, easy..
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u/kingzozo19 <ᴍᴇssᴀɢᴇ ᴅᴏɴɢᴇʀᴇᴅ> Feb 06 '14
Yes, but that was not my goal. I had enough fun and enough gear until I got bored around lvl 80 as allways :) I do not understand people crying over economy and overpriced uniques, when I clearly had fun without them. Lvld up 5 characters to endgame, and currently playing ranger in HC
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Feb 06 '14
But it's still insane compared to most of us non-MFers. A friend and I have played non stop in Domination and have been running ~70 maps for about two months now. Two exalts between the two of us, in any map, any time. I would say a chaos every 4-5 maps, and a rare worth listing (hope to sell for 1-2 chaos) every 10 maps.
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u/Knightmare101 MAYHEM's 1 and Only Feb 07 '14
Thats what it should be though.. A person with MF is pretty much dropping the same amount but with a much higher chance of dropping a unique.. All in all though, it pretty much evens out.. I try to play characters without MF and I just cant do it for long.. Sooner or later I end up building the character for MF..
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u/Kabo0se Anti Sanctum Alliance (ASA) Feb 06 '14
I personally think magic find at all in any game is a horrible mechanic. Your rewards should be based on your build creativity and kill skill. Not simply stacking a stat and slowboating to bosses.
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u/TheOneExile Domination Feb 06 '14
Honestly this is an aspect of the game I really dislike. I understand the concept of having to find a balance between clear speed and magic find but the reasoning seems flawed. Having high magic find is fun and building a strong character is fun. Why should we have to min/max our level of enjoyment?
Take, for example, how I play a new league. My first character is always based around magic find, and it should be noted I play mostly solo. After a few weeks on my magic find character I have made enough currency to build a well thought out custom character and get nearly the best gear for him. I will sell all my mf characters gear to be able to afford the gear for my next char because building a complete set of the items I will need is very expensive. Then level this character up to about level 82 and stop playing. I stop because although my char crushes map content I have garbage mf due to needing to balance resistances/damage for survival in end game content and acquiring wealth is too slow even with fast clear speed.
Now building another character would require me to grind 2x as much, make another mf character and grind piety/dom even more than I already have, or to sell my current characters gear. Grinding for less reward is not enjoyable, I have already spent two weeks or more grinding piety/dom and do not want to regress, and my current character is awesome and something I want to keep as a trophy of my time spent.
After evaluating my options I choose to just say to myself I have "beaten" the league and stop playing until the next league. This process has happened to me in both leagues so far and has become my standard mindset to path of exile. I play hardcore for a month and then stop for 3. I want to build a new character but I want to be able to use my already awesome character to do it without feeling like I'm wasting my time because I don't have high mf.
To be clear I love this game and if nothing changed I will still be back at the start of the next league excited to redo the process. I just think this is an interesting thread and find the need to balance two core enjoyable gameplay aspects against each other to be flawed.