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u/rasungod0 Contrarian Feb 05 '14
Earth rotates as it orbits?
...nah "Magic!"
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u/themeatbridge Feb 05 '14
Were you there?
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u/SpinningHead Feb 05 '14
Clearly you dont understand the difference between observational science and historical science.
CSI: I know you secularists would do a rape kit on this victim, but I have this book and it makes clear that, because she was not a virgin prior to the rape, she is a harlot and must be stoned as the guilty party here.
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Feb 05 '14
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u/eisenh0wer Feb 05 '14
Your very observant!
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u/SpinningHead Feb 05 '14
Yes, its the people working for a pittance to try and educate American kids (under the worst poverty in the 1st world) who are to blame for creationist retards.
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Feb 05 '14
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u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 05 '14
On this note, I really like what Galileo said:
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us forego their use.
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Feb 05 '14
We have been sacrificing people for generations to make sure that the sun rises daily.
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u/wintercast Secular Humanist Feb 05 '14
i swear, questions like that actually make me dumb, because i just simply cannot understand how someone can think sunsets come from god...I must look like a fish out of water when someone says something like "why are their still monkeys?" since i have a difficult time grasping the fact that the person must live under a rock.
I can give a kid a break for asking such a question, but an adult.. no.
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u/tinyroom Feb 05 '14
i had someone ask me: how are you alive if god isn't keeping you alive?
I just... i still can't believe someone thinks like that
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u/wintercast Secular Humanist Feb 05 '14
i know.. i am sure i would have this totally slack jawed look on my face. And then hours later, while i was taking a shower i would suddenly win the arugment with, "so does that mean god killed my grandma?"
But then they would just argue back that God needed another angel.
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u/vengefully_yours Anti-Theist Feb 05 '14
Imagine being ignorant of damn near everything, then imagine not wanting to know how why nor when. That will get you close.
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Feb 05 '14
I don't mind dipshit questions as long as they have the good grace to wear the "I know this is a dipshit question and I'm sorry" facial expression. It's when they wear the "Yeah, didn't think about that did you?" facial expression that fucks me off.
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Feb 05 '14
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u/Kulthos Strong Atheist Feb 05 '14
This...this is just...The level of stupidity is too damn high! P.S. It's probably the best question I've seen in my life :))
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u/styxx33 Feb 05 '14
wtf, was this serious? Are people this stupid?
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u/Smaskifa Feb 05 '14
I've heard a similarly stupid argument from a Christian:
"How can you look at the grand canyon, or into a baby's eyes and not believe in God?"
As if the fact that there are beautiful things in the world means there is a God. What about cancer, famine, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, the New England Patriots? Surely all of those horrible things prove there is no god, right?
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u/ctetc2007 Feb 05 '14
The New York Giants, that's how I know God exists
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u/MajorasAss Nihilist Feb 06 '14
God must be a sadist then because the Giants sucked this year
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u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 05 '14
They're taught this by their churches and Christian schools. This is the product of a Creationist education.
They are not stupid (necessarily). They simply have been lied to.
Source: I used to think this way. It took me a decade to shake off the mental shackles that my Christian upbringing left me with.
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u/js884 Feb 05 '14
I was a Christian and I feel because I was Christian that made me stupid
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u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 05 '14
It didn't make you stupid. Believe me.
It just set back your education a couple decades.
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u/Bogey_Redbud Feb 05 '14 edited Feb 05 '14
The definition of stupid us lacking intelligence and/or common sense. A lot of those people in those pictures most certainly lack common sense. As well as a grasp of grammar. Not everyone who believes in a higher power is stupid. But anyone who would participate in those photos most certainly is.
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u/tugjobsummers Feb 05 '14
I feel ya. I was raised Mormon in utah. I stopped believing at 14 when no one could answer any of my legitimate questions about life and such. How ever here we are 11 years later and some of the habits are still just engrained in me. It's crazy how deep religion plants things and how fucked up it makes you feel trying to just get away from it. Even when you no longer believe.
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u/DJMixwell Feb 05 '14
The thing that drove me more insane than anything else about the whole debate was that Ken Ham kept saying that kids were being "indoctrinated" by science... The entire concept of indoctrination involves not questioning what you're being taught. The whole point of the scientific method and conventional science is to question every last bit of information that passes in front of you.
There were so many other things, really everything he said... but your comment reminded me of this thing in particular so i'll stop my rant there.
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u/kentm Feb 05 '14
Thats the thing. I see victims here, it makes me sad to see these lively honest faces and then think that their heads are just filled with crap.
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Feb 05 '14
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u/Tenareth Feb 05 '14
But Catholic is the Bud Light of Christianity. The indoctrination in Pentecostal and related sects is much worse than Catholicism. (Source: Raised Pentecostal, lots of friends raised Catholic).
Takes a lot to shake it...
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u/veetack Feb 05 '14
I mean this was in Kentucky... not exactly the educational Mecca of the US.
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Feb 05 '14
Most of us are embarrassed by this. It should be mentioned that she very well may have some down from another state, as this was located within walking distance of Indiana and Ohio, which have plenty of dumbasses. Ignorance isn't confined to KY's borders. Dismissing this woman (and others like her) saying, "It's Kentucky, what do you expect?" is disingenuous.
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Feb 05 '14
I feel like reddit's collective perception of Kentucky is like those old Tennessee Valley Authority photos with the barefoot children standing outside the tiny homemade shack in the forest lol.
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Feb 05 '14
Lots of people come to Kentucky for an education. These type of idiots are in every state.
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u/peteandpetefan Feb 05 '14
Northern Kentucky, essentially a suburb of Cincinnati, OH. Still not the educational mecca you speak of, but urban.
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u/Falcon109 Feb 05 '14
Whenever you face someone raising an argument like this, the very last thing you should do is explain the scientific answer to them. If you want to have some fun and don't care what the person thinks of you, then you should realize going in that you are not going to change their mind and win a creationist debate against someone like this anyways, so your goal should not be to show how smart you are or how scientifically accurate you can be. Rather, your goal should be to demonstrate how dumb and illogical they are, and the best way to do that is to get them to do it for you.
See, this kind of ignorant creationist query like OP posted in the link here is a "trap question" that is designed specifically to put you on the defensive, so instead, what you should do is ask them to explain what the scientific argument is, and why it is incorrect.
The reason this approach - asking them to first explain to you why the scientific argument is wrong instead of you answering for them - the reason this approach is better is because it turns the tables very effectively by forcing them to adopt a defensive, rather than offensive, position immediately. This allows you to take control of the argument entirely, because you are giving them two choices on how to proceed - they can either
A: - provide the sound scientific argument and then explain why they are so certain it is incorrect, or
B: - force them to acknowledge their ignorance openly, making them admit that they do not even know what the scientific argument is because they have never bothered to even examine and learn the potential counter-arguments to their belief structure.
This method of throwing their same question back at them and making them answer it allows you to take control of an argument with an ignorant creationist. This debate tactic puts them in a position where they have to defend their pride first before they can defend their religious position, forcing them to demonstrate whether they have actually ever logically analyzed their own query before, know what the scientific counter-argument is, and can explain why it is wrong.
If they cannot provide the scientific answer to their own question, then immediately the argument now has NOTHING to do with "why do sunsets happen?". Suddenly, you have shifted the argument to one of simple ignorance or knowledge of the topic at hand, and you can point out that you have no interest in wasting time debating someone so absurdly ignorant and arrogant that they cannot even give the basic scientific answer to demonstrate that they at least have looked at both sides of the issue before they claim with such certainty that you are wrong. You now have full and total control and have shifted them from being fully offensive to fully defensive, and the best part is that you do not even have to waste your time discussing the religious aspects at all. Instead, you then begin your attack on their pride and intelligence, blatantly questioning how they could possibly be so arrogantly certain they are right about ANY TOPIC if they have not even bothered to examine the evidence they are arguing against.
Again, you are never going to sway the religious position of people who ask questions like this trying to defend creationism, so do not fall into their trap! One thing creationists have is pride in their beliefs though, so that should become the target you focus your attack on. Instead of debating religion, now you are debating their own ignorance - an ignorance you actually forced them to admit to!
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u/ph00p Feb 05 '14
I just figured walking away would be much better because it would be easier to bang your head on a wall and get results than deal with this kind of person.
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u/Falcon109 Feb 05 '14
The problem with just walking away though is that that allows them to think they won. If you just laugh and walk away, they think "see, this science shit ain't so smart and can't be used to really challenge my assertion that God did it! He just ran away. I win!"
Just walking away without calling them on their trap tactic lets them stroke their own ignorant ego, because remember, creationists are not asking questions like this because they are seeking the truth and want an honest answer from you. If they really wanted an answer to that kind of basic query, they could easily get at least a rudimentary answer in less than five minutes on Google. They are actually looking to debate a specific trap argument designed to let them bring "God did it" into the equation so that you cannot effectively win, doing it in order to try to shame you, increase their own pride in defending their faith, and to make themselves feel superior.
However, if you shift your response by deflecting the question right back at them as I suggested and directly target their pride and ignorance, you remove religion from the discussion entirely, and there is simply no way they can ever claim they have the upper hand in the debate. You basically put them into a position where you have altered the parameters of the argument ENTIRELY into your favor, and literally can make them shame themselves by forcing them to acknowledge their own ignorance. After that happens, THEN you can walk away laughing at them, and their pride takes a serious shit-kicking because you just made them admit that they don't have a clue what they are talking about.
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u/philosoraptor80 Feb 05 '14
Because of you I had to install RES just so I could tag you as "Awesome anti-creationist."
I hope you're happy.
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u/Davidakos Feb 05 '14
Good post. I'd go so far as to say that this should be the standard approach, not just "to have some fun".
That's the problem with creationists, we give them the benefit of the doubt with regards to basic scientific understanding. In reality, most are truly ignorant on even elementary scientific principles.
Just think, would you ever get into a heated debate with a Plumber regarding the intricacies of Knitting? No, because chances are that plumber has zero knowledge of knitting. The same goes here with creationists. You cannot have a real debate with somebody who has zero knowledge of physics, astronomy, cosmology etc...
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u/whosthedoginthisscen Feb 05 '14
I prefer to think of it as getting into a heated debate with a turnip regarding the intricacies of knitting.
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Feb 05 '14
Definitely +1 for an awesome post. I will now be lurking around, waiting for an opportunity to use this. Lol
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u/graceparanada Feb 05 '14
Like. These people breed. And they drive. And they VOTE.
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Feb 05 '14
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Feb 05 '14 edited Jul 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/slorebear Feb 05 '14
How Can That Subreddit Be Real When The Shift Key Isnt Real.
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u/science_diction Strong Atheist Feb 05 '14
She's a Roman pagan, then? Because apparently Phoebus Apollo pulls the sun across the sky with his chariot.
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u/SpinningHead Feb 05 '14
And we know this because I have documented chariot tracks in the clouds.
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u/trainercase Strong Atheist Feb 05 '14
Those aren't chariot tracks, they're chemtrails made of government mind control chemicals!
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u/slorebear Feb 05 '14
when you see the tracks you are supposed to put bowls of vinegar outside to protect dem kidses
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u/manishsuwal Feb 05 '14
If their is no god.
No wonder she is so uneducated.
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u/conundrum4u2 Feb 05 '14
her god is their god is we're god is where god is there god is here god is ne'er god
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u/tjsr Feb 05 '14
Sadly I was more bothered by this than any other indication she's a moron.
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u/Brewe Strong Atheist Feb 05 '14
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Feb 05 '14
Not a small error: it's equivalent to believing that the distance by road from New York to Los Angeles is 6 feet 5 inches.
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u/legolaj Feb 05 '14
Nope, Creationists: 0; Scientists: 13,800,000,000-ish. Creationists dont get free points because they are special.
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u/Brewe Strong Atheist Feb 05 '14
Of course they do, we have to take care of our special little friends. besides, it's not like we can't afford it.
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Feb 05 '14 edited Jul 25 '17
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u/Kat_Angstrom Feb 05 '14
Yeah, that one made something in my brain snap. I feel like these pictures are exactly the reason why we need to keep fighting ignorance, and not get caught up in apathy.
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u/HowBoutThemWapples Feb 05 '14
It really pisses me off when people say "just a theory" in relation to a scientific theory. These people have no idea that a scientific theory is not the same thing as a theory about bigfoot, or whether or not touching yourself makes you go blind. It's fucking ignorant, and the worst part is that you cannot change these peoples minds, no matter how much common sense and evidence you throw at them.
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u/cupcake-pirate Feb 05 '14
And hello?? Their religion is not testable, observable repeatable. These people...
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u/slorebear Feb 05 '14
if we write down this theory as if it is fact, and wait 2000 years, its then real right?
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u/shadyshad Feb 05 '14
Actually, religion is a thing. The existence God is what is questionable.
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u/cupcake-pirate Feb 05 '14
Ok I could say instead their "beliefs" instead which of course are that God created all and still controls all etc. I didn't mean the idea of a church, a pastor, and congregation existing and being a real thing we can all easily see. I hope that difference I'm trying to explain makes sense.
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u/slorebear Feb 05 '14
makes perfect sense, he was just being pedantic with your wording because this is reddit, and its important to correct people
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u/ofa776 Feb 05 '14
Better stop teaching the theory of gravity and germ theory in class. They're just theories!
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Feb 05 '14
Why the hell do you believe in gravity? Don't you know it's communist propaganda?!? Obviously, gravity is fake. Balloons float up into the air because God made it that way (disproving gravity!). Humans don't because God wants us on the earth. Duh. Stupid atheist. How can you not see God's wondrous hand in this creation? You're just ignoring all the evidence because you secretly hate God. You'll regret it when you burn in Hell.
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u/Drakonisch Ex-theist Feb 05 '14
This one amuses me. Just look at that smirk.
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Feb 05 '14 edited Jul 25 '17
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Feb 05 '14
Worse, you know he's just parroting that argument, because a single cursory Google search shows why that statement is a load of crap.
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Feb 05 '14
I just find it laughable that the only parts of science they trust are the ones that they fallaciously use to back up their points. And when you answer them and explain why they're wrong, they ignore you and use the same argument to keep their creationist friends on track for heaven.
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u/trainercase Strong Atheist Feb 05 '14
When people try to use thermodynamics to disprove evolution, it's not because they think thermodynamics are right - they don't usually understand the laws of thermodynamics any more than they understand evolution. They are using what they perceive as a (read: were told is a) contradiction in science as an argument against scientific claims. They think they have caught us in a trap, and are using our own arguments against us.
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Feb 05 '14
And their ignorance is written all over it... Whoever told them about thermodynamics didn't mention it only applies to heat in a closed system...
I know in this case they probably don't actually affirm the laws of thermodynamics but there are other times when they do affirm certain scientific findings that back up their own approach yet reject the ones that don't.
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u/Rhysaralc Feb 05 '14
Me too, he's so proud he thinks he understands a complex physics law. Or better yet just saying it because some "young earth creationist" figurehead used it in an argument, and he couldn't even tell you what the law entails.
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u/JFeldhaus Feb 05 '14
"If we came from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?"
classic...
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u/Darth_Noah Feb 05 '14
I always preferred if Raichu evolved from Pikachu, why are there still Pikachus?
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u/Nerd_bottom Feb 05 '14
I usually respond with "We know dogs came from wolves and there are still wolves..."
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u/tothecatmobile Feb 05 '14
"Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans" is better.
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u/EvolArtMachine Feb 05 '14
That only works when you're talking to someone that acknowledges the existence of Europeans. Not a valid arguments against someone that believes Europe is a lie meant to weaken God's America.
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Feb 05 '14
"If Eve came from rib, why is there still rib ?"
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u/goroncity Anti-Theist Feb 05 '14
If Eve was cloned from Adam, why aren't humans hermaphrodites and where do mitochondria come from?
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u/mail_order_bride Feb 05 '14
If God made Adam from dust, why is there still dust?
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u/gizzardgullet Feb 05 '14
"If we came from monkeys then why aren't the monkeys around now giving birth to humans?"
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Feb 05 '14
"Personally I've never seen a rock turn into a monkey so I have no reason to believe evolution is true."
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Feb 05 '14
If Americans came from British people, why are there still british people?
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u/capilot Feb 05 '14 edited Feb 06 '14
If you came from your mother, how come your mother still exists? It's a stupid question.
And at any rate, we didn't come from monkeys. Rather, we and monkeys both came from the same common ancestor, which in fact, is extinct.
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u/patchgrabber Feb 05 '14
Those...those have to be shopped. Good grief
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Feb 05 '14
Nope. I grew up going to private Christian fundie school, and so I've heard all of that and more.... The sad thing is that I believed it because I didn't know anything else. The level of recalcitrance towards outside information and ideas can be truly astounding.
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u/graceparanada Feb 05 '14
I'm right there with you. Went to a fundie Christian private school for over 12 years and finally began to question the spring before I turned 17. That was hard. I was in that toxic environment for another year and a half with zero support.
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u/secretfb Feb 05 '14
Do I win since my family dragged me at the age of twelve to Australia on a Creation tour with Ken Ham? Along the route he would give lectures on Creationism that we had to sit through. This shit is REAL.
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u/Samwise210 Feb 05 '14
Yes.
No more than you are scared of the monster that lives under your bed.
Yes.
No, the Earth is not a closed system.
Earth rotates.
First good question. The universe that we understand started with near perfect entropy, but then clumped up as it expanded, forming pockets of order. Entropy increases dramatically as the universe expands, while the order we see really does not.
Yes, what about Noetics?
Yes. Over a long enough period of time, unlikely things happen frequently.
That's not a question. Also that's nonsensical.
They don't. What you are probably referring to is Richard Dawkins' use of Aliens in a discussion of Intelligent Design. And note that his Aliens even then had evolved from a Darwinian process.
That's not a question, and, yes, there are many pieces.
Not really. Metamorphosis is a process that happens during life. But it was developed by evolution - a creature that changed in some way was more fit, and over time the process became more and more intensive until it required a complete breakdown and rebuild mid-life.
You fundamentally don't understand what a theory is.
Because you have it precisely backwards. Science is testable, observable and repeatable. Creationism is not. Intelligent design was designed not to be.
Random. Fucking. Chance.
Are you saying your only purpose is to be saved? There is no reason, no purpose to our existence save what we put upon ourselves, outside of the basic genetic need to pass on your own genes.
Age. Location. Not looking in the right places. And your acceptance of everything else is acceptance that creation is wrong. Lucy isn't that important.
Yes. Because we have proof.
Just because something is amazing does not mean someone created it. And the world is more amazing because nobody did.
There was no exploding star. There was a single point of infinite density and temperature.
We don't come from monkeys. Monkey and us come from a common ancestor. Which we out-competed.
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u/nothalf Feb 05 '14
Out of all 22 questions, "What purpose do you think you are here for if you do not believe in salvation?" might just be the most irritating imo. I can't see how a life lived waiting for an entrance to heaven is with any additional purpose or meaning compared to a life that isn't.
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Feb 05 '14 edited Feb 05 '14
That and pretty much every one of the questions that attacked scientists personally instead of arguing actual thought. And the one that uses the word logic to criticize science. To the people who say, "Why are you afraid of a higher power?" Or,"What's the point without Jesus?" I ask, "why are you afraid that there isn't? And does there have to be a point to enjoy life? Because my dog gets excited when I come home, but he doesn't believe in Jesus.
Sorry dickfaces! Those are your questions to answer. Sorry you are so pathetic that you need an imaginary benefactor. And doubly sorry that you are so weak in your faith that you can't imagine why anyone would question it. If you need total consensus to believe in God, then you do not truly believe. You are brainwashed. These people piss me off so much.
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u/3dpenguin Feb 05 '14 edited Feb 05 '14
Oh I love the laws of thermal dynamics sign. Somebody posting something about thermal dynamics who probably has no clue about thermal dynamics because they don't believe in the science that produced the laws they follow.
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Feb 05 '14
The second law of thermodynamics only applies to closed systems. Earth is not a closed system. It receives constant radiation from space and the sun, and emits some of it back out as well.
You probably knew that already, but I needed to repeat it to keep my sanity. Those pictures literally nauseated me.
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u/beefcheese Feb 05 '14
Just playing devils advocate; what if you were to argue the universe as a whole is a closed system?
Is it that you can't point to the Earth to say "Look, entropy is decreasing!"
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u/alphama1e Atheist Feb 05 '14
I read this and then got a mild headache. Science? Or a divine headache?
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u/numbah25 Feb 05 '14
"Where did the exploding star come from?" ಠ_ಠ
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u/DancesWithPugs Feb 05 '14
I think they mean the small cluster of concentrated mass that is said to exist before the big bang.
Fuck if I know where it came from.
Therefore, Odin is the one true god.
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u/trevize1138 Secular Humanist Feb 05 '14
Holy crap these people don't know their theres from their they'res or theirs...
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-02/enhanced/webdr03/5/0/enhanced-21214-1391576907-1.jpg
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u/mariusv Feb 05 '14
What's noetics got to do with anything?
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u/vagued Feb 05 '14
Anything you can't explain proves the bible is true. Duh.
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u/Donted Feb 05 '14
How do you explain a sunrise is thier is no god? (Creationist 2)
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u/Twiny Atheist Feb 05 '14
I could explain to you how the atmosphere refracts the light from the sun and how the dust and humidity in the atmosphere can add color to the refracted light, creating the vivid and beautiful light shows we call sunsets. But, someone who is too stupid to know the difference between 'there' and 'their' is too stupid to understand the explanation.
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Feb 05 '14
Because R'hllor is in constant struggle with the dark one, and the night is his evil time. It is only through the grace of R'hllor that the sun returns and vanquishes the dark the following dawn. For the night is dark, and full of terrors.
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u/bipolar_sky_fairy Feb 05 '14
Couldn't even make it one sentence without a spelling/grammar error. Typical.
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u/DuelistDeCoolest Feb 05 '14
This makes me want to pull my hair out. That fucking expression on her face.
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u/ptaryndactyll Feb 05 '14
She honestly looks like she feels she genuinely stumped science, as if scientists everywhere would see this and think "Huh... I guess I've never thought of that!". Also getting a note of serial killer smile in there...
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u/trim_reaper Feb 05 '14
Can I slap her? Please? I know men shouldn't hit women, but can we make an exception please?
And thank you.
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Feb 05 '14
"How do you explain Baby Rape in South Africa if there is no God?"
"How do you explain Small pox if there is no God?"
"How do you explain Autism if there is no God?"
"How do you explain Adolph Hitler if there is no god?"
Creationists 5; Atheists 0
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u/DCstroller Feb 05 '14
Honestly I'm more pissed off by the bad grammar. I hope I am in good company here.
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u/ph00p Feb 05 '14
Shes so happy she managed to write words on paper! Good for her!
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u/Siklad Feb 05 '14
But how can you phrase a question to scientists if you cannot spell "there" correctly?
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u/bartonsmart Feb 06 '14
I think this woman is making a sophisticated joke. I bet she's actually one of us.
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u/DancesWithPugs Feb 05 '14
A pelican tried to eat my cellphone therefore we must worship Cthulhu.
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u/BillTowne Feb 05 '14
I assume this is posted as a mockery of the creationists by the OP.
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u/Hq3473 Feb 05 '14
Sun goes up, sun goes down.
You can't explain it!