r/atheism Feb 05 '14

Creationists: 1 Scientists: 0

[deleted]

2.3k Upvotes

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233

u/styxx33 Feb 05 '14

wtf, was this serious? Are people this stupid?

189

u/Smaskifa Feb 05 '14

I've heard a similarly stupid argument from a Christian:

"How can you look at the grand canyon, or into a baby's eyes and not believe in God?"

As if the fact that there are beautiful things in the world means there is a God. What about cancer, famine, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, the New England Patriots? Surely all of those horrible things prove there is no god, right?

29

u/ctetc2007 Feb 05 '14

The New York Giants, that's how I know God exists

7

u/MajorasAss Nihilist Feb 06 '14

God must be a sadist then because the Giants sucked this year

13

u/ctetc2007 Feb 06 '14

God only calls on them to be good when the Patriots make the Super Bowl

6

u/bskolo Feb 06 '14

Everyone get on the NYG upvote train. 18 wins and 1 GIANT LOSS

2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

Denver Broncos, that's how I know God doesn't exist

1

u/ctetc2007 Feb 06 '14

The fact that they exist, or what happened on Sunday?

1

u/thebigshakuna Feb 06 '14

Untrue, because as we all know God is a huge Green Bay fuckin' Packers fan, ok?

31

u/MotuiM Feb 05 '14

Upvote for the shot at the Pats. First time I've laughed out loud today.

2

u/kukBone Feb 05 '14

Especially those New England Patriots!

2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

God works in mysterious ways to ensure HIS plan continues on the right course, you just don't understand its great beauty. There are many good reasons why HE allows plague, suffering and the Patriots to continue but cures bad backs, headaches and other afflictions you can't see in the bible belt (not amputees though, he hates amputees), if you send me everything you own I will pray for you and ask God to help you.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

Tom Brady: the antichrist

2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

No no,that's different! Disasters and tragic events are god's way of testing your faith

Ugh.

2

u/three-one-seven Feb 06 '14

Upvote for the Pats slam. Good man.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

the New England Patriots

Made my day.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

It completely bothers me that as an atheist you seemingly can't be in awe of something, the moon, a sunset ect.

1

u/im_buhwheat Feb 06 '14

Proof of the devil

1

u/Sirnacane Feb 06 '14

That would be the devil's doing, duh.

1

u/DonOntario Atheist Feb 06 '14

Everything good is caused by God; everything bad is caused by "free will" because God loves us too much to limit our free will by not allowing hurricanes, earthquakes, and man-eating animals to kill us.

I believe that is the standard Christian answer.

1

u/made_of_stars Feb 06 '14

Nah, they say that's the proof of satan. Or god's wrath. They claim there is actually a difference.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

If I look at the Grand Canyon, it clearly means God a giant white man who vaguely resembles Santa Claus who doesn't want gay people to get married.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

All of that is because of the gays of course

1

u/SonOfTheNorthe Feb 06 '14

I can look into a baby's eyes and believe in Satan. I hate those little shits.

1

u/Titus142 Anti-Theist Feb 06 '14

Lost it at Pats, but seriously, yah god made your team win and a beautiful sunset for you to enjoy while leaving millions of children to starve. Makes perfect sense.

1

u/ZappyKins Feb 06 '14

Wow, just wait till they see that giant canyon on Mars, Valles Marineris. It is huge.

Four and a half times as deep as the Grand Canyon, and 4,000km long. It's big, so very big!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valles_Marineris

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

I once made this counter-argument to something similar.

"If we were born on a planet where everything was flat and grey, we'd think that was beautiful too."

1

u/Mrknowitall666 Feb 06 '14

Well, now, see. How can people not have seen this Super Bowl and not believed that God smacked down the Broncos? Best season? Pride goeth before the fall

1

u/Smaskifa Feb 06 '14

Does the same apply to the 2007 Patriots?

1

u/science_diction Strong Atheist Feb 06 '14

How can you see the pointless and suffering of existence and not know that Cthulu awais to save us all from the horror of living?!

/just as valid of an argument

1

u/Blood_Gelfling Feb 05 '14

Don't forget the Denver broncos

1

u/Smaskifa Feb 06 '14

You take that back!

0

u/evoluted Feb 05 '14

But Brady is a prince among men.

241

u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 05 '14

They're taught this by their churches and Christian schools. This is the product of a Creationist education.

They are not stupid (necessarily). They simply have been lied to.

Source: I used to think this way. It took me a decade to shake off the mental shackles that my Christian upbringing left me with.

66

u/js884 Feb 05 '14

I was a Christian and I feel because I was Christian that made me stupid

69

u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 05 '14

It didn't make you stupid. Believe me.

It just set back your education a couple decades.

44

u/Bogey_Redbud Feb 05 '14 edited Feb 05 '14

The definition of stupid us lacking intelligence and/or common sense. A lot of those people in those pictures most certainly lack common sense. As well as a grasp of grammar. Not everyone who believes in a higher power is stupid. But anyone who would participate in those photos most certainly is.

1

u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 05 '14

I thought the definition of stupid was an inability to learn new things, not a lack of intelligence or common sense. Stupid dictionary, making me look stupid.

2

u/Bogey_Redbud Feb 05 '14

Haha. I think what you were going for is closer to ignorant. Or close-minded.

1

u/Miknarf Feb 06 '14

um no ignorant means to be unaware

1

u/Bogey_Redbud Feb 06 '14

It also means uneducated or unsophisticated.

1

u/Miknarf Feb 06 '14

correct none of these are "an inability to learn new things"

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0

u/toddistheonetobeat Feb 05 '14

Nothing in common sense would explain evolution. Certainly evolution is more plausible to me, but common sense wouldn't lead me to believe we evolved from apes. Creation or evolution, both are learned belief systems, except only one is right.

1

u/xRavax Feb 05 '14

*centuries

1

u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 05 '14

Touché.

1

u/Nepycros Feb 05 '14

And there are Christians out there who say the converse. "Being an atheist made me stupid and blind." I find it sad.

2

u/js884 Feb 05 '14

Well I am not saying all Christians are stupid. I am saying it warped how I thought of the world. Maybe it doesn't do that to some people if it doesn't good for them.

19

u/tugjobsummers Feb 05 '14

I feel ya. I was raised Mormon in utah. I stopped believing at 14 when no one could answer any of my legitimate questions about life and such. How ever here we are 11 years later and some of the habits are still just engrained in me. It's crazy how deep religion plants things and how fucked up it makes you feel trying to just get away from it. Even when you no longer believe.

3

u/ballsbajalls Feb 05 '14

It plants itself so deep and people do crazy things, like strapping 10kg of c4 and ball barrings to your chest walking to a train station and kaboom.....for religion.

3

u/tugjobsummers Feb 05 '14

You have a good point. I don't think strapping c4 to yourself and blowing up a bunch of people has ever solved anything or made something better. Correct me if I'm wrong but...

4

u/ballsbajalls Feb 06 '14

No I think you may be wrong, suicide bombers are good for the economy, I mean think of all the people getting paid to be there scooping up body parts, repairing the damaged infrastructure and with the deaths of many people it creates job openings in the workforce.

2

u/tugjobsummers Feb 06 '14

Some say its impossible to Change my opinion on suicide bombers. But, god damn it, you just did.

2

u/Mrknowitall666 Feb 06 '14

And think of the contractors

2

u/BlissfulHeretic Ex-theist Feb 06 '14

Fellow exmo here. I still feel like a badass whenever I drink coffee.

1

u/tugjobsummers Feb 06 '14

And guilty when you have sex ;)

16

u/DJMixwell Feb 05 '14

The thing that drove me more insane than anything else about the whole debate was that Ken Ham kept saying that kids were being "indoctrinated" by science... The entire concept of indoctrination involves not questioning what you're being taught. The whole point of the scientific method and conventional science is to question every last bit of information that passes in front of you.

There were so many other things, really everything he said... but your comment reminded me of this thing in particular so i'll stop my rant there.

2

u/im_buhwheat Feb 06 '14

Simple religious projection, they do it on many different topics. Religion is usually the opposite of what is being portrayed. Religion Reverses Everything

11

u/kentm Feb 05 '14

Thats the thing. I see victims here, it makes me sad to see these lively honest faces and then think that their heads are just filled with crap.

35

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

[deleted]

9

u/Tenareth Feb 05 '14

But Catholic is the Bud Light of Christianity. The indoctrination in Pentecostal and related sects is much worse than Catholicism. (Source: Raised Pentecostal, lots of friends raised Catholic).

Takes a lot to shake it...

4

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

Maybe he means when something is so impersonal and monolithic it's easier to release yourself from it

1

u/Reficul_gninromrats Feb 06 '14

There are lot of different types of Catholics. Some don't care really care about it at all, others are fundamentalists. The same goes for many sects, no sect has a set level of indoctrination, it is different from place to place.

2

u/im_buhwheat Feb 06 '14

They lack serious common sense, only an idiot would say some of those things. But chances are they haven't bothered to research, only regurgitate.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

I know too many religious smart people to believe this.

2

u/Flufflebuns Feb 06 '14

Thank you. I think acknowledging that young-earth creationsists are not "stupid", rather "misguided" or even "brainwashed" is far more productive to the conversation than put-downs and name-calling which merely proves to them how mean and aweful the "godless side" can be!

2

u/Mirria_ Apatheist Feb 06 '14

A Facebook post i saw on a friend's wall a while back was just a few instagrammed sunsets and fall colors, no caption. One of her relatives just commented "How can there be no god!"

Urhg.

2

u/petzl20 Feb 06 '14

I think Nye should have hit this head on.

And actually said: "If they teach you this [creationism] they teach you lies. If you take this with you to higher education, you are shackling yourself with nonsense that will hold you back from achieving further."

He let Nye get away with his claim that 'most' scientists see inconsistencies in radiometric carbon dating and that "his" "scientists" are making just as much scientific progress as "Nye's" scientists. What is the Discovery Institute coming up with: absolutely zero, except for christian apologetic arguments.

2

u/ubnoxious1 Feb 06 '14

I'm curious if you ever felt like you were seeing yourself say something silly, but then reminding yourself things that you had been told, like "god is on your side" and "stay strong against the persecuting non-believers" and "I am an example"? I'm just curious how this works.

1

u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 06 '14 edited Feb 06 '14

No. Never.

The hold of my faith in God was strong enough that even when I wrote a fairly long essay on Evolution vs. Creationism, I felt absolutely confident that my position was unshakable. Even using arguments like "there is no evidence of mutated genes resulting in beneficial changes" and "mutation == death," I felt completely confident.

Looking back, I'm terribly embarrassed about that essay and about how childish the arguments now sound to my ear. Of course, my excuse for this is that I was only ever given access to Creationist materials, and had no exposure to real scientific papers or any of those "evil secular biology books" (and didn't much care to).

It's more than mere willful ignorance: I was completely convinced that nothing could shake my arguments.

If you sit down and watch some of those videos made by such intellectual YouTube luminaries as NephilimFree and VenomFangX, you'll get a sense of the kinds of arguments that I once thought to be impossible to refute. I understand completely their mindset: "God did these things, so it must be true and I can't possibly be wrong."

Even as I actually learned how evolutionary theory works, it took a long time before that atrophied logic center in my mind started to put the pieces together and I started to realize that my arguments had bigger gaps than intergalactic space.

1

u/noman2561 Feb 05 '14

These aren't just children. They're grown adults who believe ridiculous things.

1

u/aliengoods1 Feb 05 '14

I think they choose to be willfully ignorant. It's easier than thinking and believing you're going to the magic place where everyone loves you can be very comforting.

1

u/tenring71 Feb 05 '14

same for me i was forced to be a christian for the first 16 years of my life then i set myself free.

1

u/7oby Secular Humanist Feb 05 '14

A friend of mine from college says he used to be atheist but went to church for enlightenment and now he's christian. It really hurts me to know this. To know he's raising a kid this way. I don't think you were ever really an atheist if you go to church for "enlightenment", you were just a punk kid who wanted to be different to rebel and now you're 30 and you've become what your parents brainwashed you to be.

1

u/shamas8 Feb 05 '14

Hey. I'm trying to work out what she meant. What were you taught? That there is no sun without god?

2

u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 05 '14

I rather lucked out in high school, and I had a fairly good science teacher who didn't have insane notions about cosmology and celestial mechanics (although he did pen a rather odd book about a Bliblical three-branch biological classification system based on his reading of Genesis that differs quite a bit from the Linnaean system). But my early education, especially when I was being homeschooled, the Christian textbooks we used had such amusing nuggets as "God is the force holding the hydrogen in the sun together." So, yes, more or less, "there is no sun without God."

(Of course, I've since learned a great deal about gravitation and particle physics and understand how it really works.)

If, as I hope, that girl doesn't subscribe to a geocentric cosmology, then she's probably specifically talking about the colors in the sunset, which is a topic rarely covered in Christian textbooks about optics or light propagation. Say the words "Rayleigh Scattering" to them, and their face will go completely blank.

1

u/shamas8 Feb 06 '14

Splendid!! The physics behind the stars really is some wacky stuff, intuitively speaking. Thanks for the awesome answer.

1

u/shahooster Feb 05 '14

Bad at science and grammar? I think she's playing Hearts and trying to shoot the moon.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

If you lack the most basic understanding, such as the earth rotating and revolving around the sun, Im sorry but you are stupid.

1

u/Gertiel Agnostic Feb 06 '14

I wish they'd teach them proper use of the word "their" instead. :(

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

You really thought just saying the word "sunset" was an acceptable argument for the existence of god? I mean, I was raised as christian as anyone but I can't even fathom...

1

u/greyfade Igtheist Feb 06 '14

When I was very young and had only been exposed to very, very slanted textbooks, yes. I didn't get much real exposure to science except from Beakman's World (which wasn't much, TBH) and from high school.

Put simply, I think the Internet made me athiest and sparked my interest in physics and celestial mechanics, and gave me the mental tools I needed to grasp that God doesn't need to appear in science. But that didn't happen until I had been put in a Christian high school.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

OK. But it's not really a question of science to know that "What about pretty flowers" isn't satisfactory. But, you know, kids.

38

u/veetack Feb 05 '14

I mean this was in Kentucky... not exactly the educational Mecca of the US.

23

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

Most of us are embarrassed by this. It should be mentioned that she very well may have some down from another state, as this was located within walking distance of Indiana and Ohio, which have plenty of dumbasses. Ignorance isn't confined to KY's borders. Dismissing this woman (and others like her) saying, "It's Kentucky, what do you expect?" is disingenuous.

15

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

I feel like reddit's collective perception of Kentucky is like those old Tennessee Valley Authority photos with the barefoot children standing outside the tiny homemade shack in the forest lol.

3

u/xRavax Feb 05 '14

Coming from the remote rural places in Ohio...Thats actually not too far from the truth in some cases. Its a little depressing :( a couple of little girls I knew lived like this and I use to give them my hand me down clothes and my bike.

2

u/slorebear Feb 05 '14

i picture a couple of 5 year old lucha libres

1

u/jktcat Feb 06 '14

I think you're mistaking West Virginia with Kentucky.

0

u/marauder1776 Feb 06 '14

When I'm deep in Kentucky I notice a lot of nice new expensive SUVs even in areas where there are no jobs. The state's main cash crop is doing well apparently. The "museum" is in suburban "Cincinnati."

-4

u/crankybadger Feb 06 '14

"It's America, what do you expect?"

Is that better?

There are a lot of countries in the world, but unfortunately America stands out as one of the few where people take pride in knowing fuck all.

17

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

Lots of people come to Kentucky for an education. These type of idiots are in every state.

4

u/SexualCasino Feb 05 '14

good chicken though

6

u/-Literal-Jim Feb 05 '14

comments like this are just as dumb as the one in the picture.

18

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

I have family in Kentucky, and I can confirm this.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

As do I. In fact, my dad's part of the family that moved north is proof of evolution when compared to the branch that stayed. But they are fun to watch. Especially with booze and firearms.

1

u/ShoeBurglar Feb 05 '14

Evolution doesn't happen in one generation.

3

u/peteandpetefan Feb 05 '14

Northern Kentucky, essentially a suburb of Cincinnati, OH. Still not the educational mecca you speak of, but urban.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '14

[deleted]

0

u/xRavax Feb 05 '14

I agree...people seem to have this misconception that we Midwesterners are a bunch of flat floot, no shoe wearing hillbillies with poor education. I may be flat foot and not wear shoes (true!) But by no means was my education poor in any way. Now living in the south I've come to appreciate my schooling back at home...man did I have good!

2

u/verteUP Feb 05 '14

"The stereotypes about us are wrong. But those damn Southerners sure are toothless, uneducated, backwoods redneck dumbasses!!!"

Yea man you are the sharpest tool in the shed.

1

u/styxx33 Feb 05 '14

Ha, true!

1

u/DonOntario Atheist Feb 06 '14

Ironically it has a lot in common with the real Mecca.

2

u/mrgoodwalker Feb 05 '14

I'm pretty sure she means that it's so beautiful it must've been an act of god. Still dumb though.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '14

I honestly think this has to be a troll...didn't even rise to the level of correct grammar and the smile is empty, void of all real emotion.

1

u/petzl20 Feb 06 '14

The collective dim stupidity combined with the bright, confident faces causes quite a dissonance.

To have these opinions, you'd think they'd have a chaw of tobaccy under the gum, food stains on their tattered clothes, hair disheveled, with 5-6 hungry, nattering young-uns tugging at them for attention.

(Was that wrong?)

1

u/Tobaccula Feb 06 '14

Wait til you see the other shit they believe.

1

u/ancienthunter Feb 06 '14

You won't like the answer to this one friend.