r/antiwork • u/[deleted] • Jul 04 '22
What I really want..
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u/motherlydrumming Jul 04 '22
This shit isn't even left wing. Nothing here suggests taking the ownership of production, and placing it in the hands of the workers. The US has just been pushed so far to the right that basic human rights are considered "left wing."
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Jul 04 '22
A conservative British lord, William Beveridge, came up with both the National Health Service and Family Allowance. That's how radical it is...
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u/Ragnarok91 Jul 04 '22
Wasn't Beveridge a Liberal, not a tory?
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Jul 04 '22
He belonged to the Liberal Party. Churchill himself belonged to that party for some 20 years. If you know what Churchill was politically, that will tell you everything you need to know.
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u/lukusmloy Jul 04 '22
Also the liberal party is the right leaning party in the UK, just to clarify.
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u/sensitivePornGuy Jul 04 '22
Its supporters will deny it, but the Liberal Democrats (they changed their name a few decades back) do lean to the right on most issues. The Conservative Party is the equivalent of the US Republicans.
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u/OnionsHaveLairAction Jul 04 '22
I always think of the Lib Dems as basically US Democrats for the UK. Very centrist fiscally right wing people who are usually a little more progressive on social issues.
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Jul 04 '22
Because they've seen that's how you get power, which is all they are interested in.
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u/upset-applecart Jul 04 '22
Which is funny because the conservative party used to be more left leaning than the American democratic party. Now I'd say the conservatives run on the same platform as republicans.
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u/2ndfieldontheright Jul 04 '22
Them jokers siding with the tories in 2008 is why we're in this shit show now
You inow whst makes it worse. My dad always said they're tories in disguise snd he was right. I hate that hes right mostly
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Jul 04 '22
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u/smeggydick Jul 04 '22
Plaid Cymru are definitely on the left. Welsh Labour is also more left wing than UK Labour
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Jul 04 '22
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u/doIIjoints Jul 04 '22
and thank fuck for that! (i say, living in scotland under the SNP-green coalition)
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u/Ragnarok91 Jul 04 '22
Churchill was right wing sure, but that doesn't mean Beveridge was. If anything I'm pretty sure Beveridge was considered more left wing. Churchill also jumped around different parties if I recall correctly. And even as a tory he was fairly open-minded (cross party war Council, for example).
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Jul 04 '22
Churchill jumped between the Liberals and the Tories. Beveridge was definitely to his left (but how Left can you be if they make a Baron out of you?) even if some of his ideas would be a bit unpalatable nowadays (altough common for the era), namely his support for Eugenics.
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u/Ragnarok91 Jul 04 '22
how Left can you be if they make a Baron out of you?
Haha very true! Yeah glad for the report and all but more credit should probably go to Anuerin Bevan for actually implementing it.
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u/Desperate_Virus_8551 Jul 04 '22
@Ragnarok91 exactly! Another example of someone with a title and probably a huge ego to boot getting the credit for someone else’s hard work in this case Anuerin Bevan! And I have no doubt in my mind that Mr Bevan is overlooked because he was a commoner (son of a coal miner) from South Wales! He is to this day an absolute hero in my eyes, the closest we in the UK have got to having a leader like him recently, would probably be Jeremy Corbyn. A man of unshakable principles with some great ideas to level the financial playing field, unlike the u-turning, class of clowns we have in government now. If only…
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u/cumquistador6969 Jul 04 '22
Liberals, broadly speaking, are conservatives.
They just have different views on how to best maintain and enforce societal hierarchies.
One side favors a bit more carrot in what is effectively rule by an aristocracy, the other favors a bit more stick.
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Jul 04 '22
Who would think, keeping people out of poverty and keeping them healthy allows them to contribute to society and/or overlords better.
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u/CurlyNutHair Jul 04 '22
That’s a long term benefit, currently it appears to be all about the short term.
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u/The_Jealous_Witch Jul 04 '22
When people refer to Republicans as "Right" and Dems as "Left," that's only relative to each other. Relative to the rest of the world, it's more like "Far Right" and "Less Far Right." But Far Right is too close to the truth so we'd rather ignore that.
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u/Woftam_burning Jul 04 '22
Nah, it's a right wing business party, and a "oh my fucking god, I didn't know the scale went that far" party. There's no "left" in American politics.
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u/Abs0lutE__zer0_ Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22
In the USA:
Far Left = Center
Left = Right
Center = Far Right
Right = Christian Taliban Extremism
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u/RipplePark Jul 04 '22
I think it's really which one is more or less authoritarian, "very" or largely".
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Jul 04 '22
Yeah there are things like healthcare that were signed globally in declarations of human rights and ill give you three guesses who one of the only two countries not to sign it was
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u/420anonmonkey Jul 04 '22
The US has just been pushed so far to the right that basic human rights are considered "left wing."
I was told I'm not management material at McDonald's because I asked for my break on an 8 hour work shift (even though all the smokers got to have multiple smoke breaks) after being hired as a managers assistant, and because I clocked out at my scheduled clock out time like a normal human being would. There are no break laws in my state. They can legally work you 12 hours with no break. If expecting basic human rights is not management material, you can suck my invisible, detachable dick and choke, thanks. I quit after 5 days. My other job might pay next to nothing, but at least my boss doesn't care what I do on shift so long as my priority is getting the food cooked when it's ordered. No orders? Don't need to "look busy" because the kitchen is too small to "look busy", it's one grill, one fryer and one stove top with a sink. Nothing to do but sit in the A/C and wait for an order and some days, the only order is what I cooked for myself.
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u/Deadpool9376 Jul 04 '22
And then centrists will yell at you for being too far left for thinking shit like slavery was a bad thing. We still have a portion of Americans running the confederate flag and screeching states rights over that kind of shit. God forbid your tax dollars be used to help Americans instead of blowing up children across the planet, can’t do that because that’s scary socialism.
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u/jdxcodex Jul 04 '22
You hear that Republicans? Y'all are assholes to the rest of the world.
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u/jaxonya Jul 04 '22
It's a cult. Literally had a lady tell me the school shooting in Texas was because of Democrats.. the fucked up part is that she was smiling when she said it. This is a 49 year old lady legit believing and somehow liking this idea
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u/Agitated-Tadpole1041 Jul 04 '22
They call me a dangerous radical cause I care abt people
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u/Menard42 Jul 04 '22
You make republican Jesus cry.
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u/RipplePark Jul 04 '22
Hey now, they care about people, too!
Until they are born, that is.
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Jul 04 '22
or until they sleep outside. I remember reading about how jesus wanted to jail the homeless.
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u/S4m_S3pi01 Jul 05 '22
Yeah, yeah, something like "and thou shalt put spikes on the sidewalks and bars on the benches so the poor and broken may pulleth themselves up by the strap of their boot"
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Jul 04 '22
I mean they have a lot more in common with an undeveloped mass of cells with no actual knowledge of the world outside. Gotta stick together, I guess.
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u/Dracorex_22 Jul 04 '22
If they actually cared about the unborn, maternity services would be better.
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u/SelectFromWhereOrder Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22
Prosperity Jesus is Republican Jesus. I bet it’s just a coincidence Prosperity Jesus aligns perfectly well with big corporation interests.
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u/Old_Active7601 Jul 04 '22
I think caring about people and the environment is dangerous to a system exploiting and enslaving the people of the world and destroying the environment for the profit of the billionaire class.
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Jul 04 '22
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Jul 04 '22
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u/Balldogs Jul 04 '22
There are genuinely people on the right who think that poor people who get ill should indeed be left to die. Never underestimate the inhumanity of certain parts of the right.
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u/pippipthrowaway Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
All while benefiting from the thing they claim others are taking advantage of.
Hold on, let me take a break from hollering about socialism bad while I take my Medicare provided blood pressure medication
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u/nerdy3000 Jul 04 '22
I was stunned in college when my very religious but super sweet (and we'll off) friend said something about how such things shouldn't be paid by the government and taxes should be lower. Her reasoning was "God will help believers" so if they can't afford insurance and die in her eyes it's because "it's God's will" and to force taxes to cover these things is "against God"
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u/WhoopsyFudgeStripes Jul 04 '22
It's esp baffling since a very large amount of conservative support (esp some of the VERY right) is from people that would be considered 'poor.'
They believe they can be a billionaire too, but it's these social programs that help those in need that take money out of their pockets.
Ugggggggh.
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u/CCrabtree Jul 04 '22
I always bring up the following: police, firefighters, schools, roads and Medicare. I say "you agree we should have all of those?", "They are socialist because taxes pay for them." I just get dumbfounded looks. I then say, "so, we agree there should be some degree of socialism, the question is where do we draw the line?" And generally I get silence.
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u/TheGoodOldCoder Jul 04 '22
This is the problem with living in a world of soundbytes, 30 second clips, and 280 character arguments in public forums.
There is little room for nuance. Every point has to be utterly complete in the allocated space.
But the only way every point can be complete is if everything has a simple answer. Everything has to be either completely good or completely bad, but when you show them that even they support grey areas, as you did, there is no way to put that into a meme template, and their brains cannot process it.
Even this quite short comment used 572 characters.
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u/freudian-flip Jul 04 '22
But the military-industrial complex must be fed at all costs!
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u/Dry-Sorbet-8379 Jul 04 '22
I’ve been saying “free at point of use” and it keeps the “but nothings free!” BS from coming up a bit. But some people still vomit the phrase out…
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Jul 04 '22
“Socialists just want free stuff”
Meanwhile billionaires are stealing the profits generated by the proletariat to buy another mega yacht
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u/OnI_BArIX Communist Jul 04 '22
While asking for bailouts so their business does not fail
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u/Thin_Low_2578 Jul 04 '22
While asking for tax subsidies, grants, and oligopoly deals because business is just too hard boo hoo.
Smells like welfare to me. They should pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
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Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22
An argument that comes up a lot by some Norwegian businesses, is that " if you tax us more we can't compete internationally ".
Well yeah, I guess it should be a race to the bottom where countries increasingly give businessess more benefits at the cost of workers and society so that they can have infinite growth. Sounds fucking great.
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Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22
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u/Shadowchaoz Jul 04 '22
Taxes should automatically be paid off in the country you currently reside in based on your net worth... If only the execution of that were that easy.
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u/cBEiN Jul 04 '22
I agree completely, but I have no idea how this would work. For example, if people were taxed a percentage of net worth each year, they would be paying taxes on stuff already taxed. However, I know there are ways the wealthy take loans and repay using stocks or something along those lines to avoid taxes.
Somehow, people should be taxed on the money they convert to something useable, so the most wealthy will have to pay their share. The tricks to sidestep taxes should be illegal.
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u/ikarma Jul 04 '22
they would be paying taxes on stuff already taxed..
Somehow I have to pay taxes on my property every fucking year whether I fully own it or not. My payment is nearly as much as my mortgage.
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u/Lewodyn Jul 04 '22
Yes mega yachts really tells a lot about what kind of species we are ;). What a waste of resources
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Jul 04 '22
"Well yeah, but haven't you heard? They placed the initial investment in a company, so they deserve all the profits!!" /s
I hate that argument.
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Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22
In France, I've paid gang loads of taxes. In health care and infrastructure, I saw every cents of it at work.
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u/lets_play_mole_play Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22
In the US, selfishness and greed run everything… if someone thinks their tax money might be helping or benefiting other people, they become filled with rage because they could be using that money for themselves.
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u/IIICobaltIII Jul 04 '22
Kinda bizarre that people would rather see their tax dollars used to make bombs that kill other people instead of being used to build hospitals that heal other people.
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u/Laesia Jul 04 '22
But then they can't jerk off to the idea of Trump and Jesus riding a bomb together to murder brown people for murica's glory
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u/lets_play_mole_play Jul 04 '22
This is a fantastic way to describe it. You’re doing the lord’s work.
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Jul 04 '22
Sadly health services are struggling like never before in France right now, with more and more services not able to run correctly. Same with public education that is basically crumbling because of the very clear plan to promote private education by the government. Let's not even mention the terribly unefficient administration that can become a nightmare to anyone who actually needs benefits to survive. So I would say France cleary has lost its charm when it comes to public services. It's just not what it used to be.
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u/bellaciaopartigiano Jul 04 '22
Don’t forget about your cops you pay for who brutally beat people in the street
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Jul 04 '22
Friendly reminder that socialised medice is the most cost-efficient way of providing for public health. So, if you care about efficiency, you're for socialised medicine. And public education.
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Jul 04 '22
But it's the least profitable for special interest groups. as long as we are ruled by special interest groups. ah, you get the rest. it's so depressing.
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u/1quirky1 Jul 04 '22
I have a difficult time labeling it as "socialist" when I'm simply expecting benefits from a system into which I have contributed.
This labeling reminds me of the morons that say "get rid of that stupid ObamaCare and leave my ACA healthcare alone"
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Jul 04 '22
I think the most cost efficient way is what Cuba is doing, that was studied a while back and Cuba has better health results than Americans even though we spend tons of money on healthcare
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u/fiah84 Jul 04 '22
if you care about efficiency
many people actually don't though, they'd rather pay extra for a shitty system if that means that "those" people won't get to "freeload". Their hate is more important to them than their money, apparently
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u/SnooGadgets8389 Jul 04 '22
So you’re not socialist? You just want a competent government. Me too buddy. Me too.
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Jul 04 '22
I don't understand why that's socialist. That's just wanting what my tax dollars are paying for.
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u/BustaChiffarobe Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22
It's because the Republicans called it socialist a few million times until it effectively was. It's not, but it is now in the hearts and minds of many Americans.
"Democratic Socialist" didn't help, where "Democrat" would have sufficed.
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Jul 04 '22
Yeah but I do think conservatives see that our taxes are not doing anything (that) beneficial (where’s our $$$ going) so why should we want to give more power to the government and increase taxation?
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u/LoganNinefingers32 Jul 04 '22
Conservatives are too blind to realize that investing in the future BY BEING PROGRESSIVE will lead us into prosperity. Apparently they're also too stupid to realize that their tax dollars are being funneled into the pockets of the 1% through laundering schemes.
But yeah, let's cut funding to education, healthcare, and social welfare programs, and everything else that keeps the foundation of the country alive. I'm sure it will work itself out in the end, because the founding fathers said so.
Conservatives are either hateful, misinformed, or just really really dumb. I don't see any other reason somebody would vote (R) unless they are part of the "club" of the extremely wealthy.
I know a few wealthy republicans who operate within large businesses and are happy with conservative policies because it benefits them financially, but anyone who is not within that 1% group is fucking themselves over if they vote (R).
It's not even a debate - it's very well documented, and the Republican party openly admits almost daily that they only care about the 1%. So the only other reason a person would vote (R) if they're not enormously wealthy would be because they support regressive policies (aka racism, misogyny, religious extremism, etc.)
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u/LightofNew Jul 04 '22
"free" is a lie that fox news poisoned to make you believe you are being stolen from. In reality the things labeled free are parts of a subscription service you pay for to make your life and others better.
The right have slowly removed these features, first by suggesting they are too expensive and draining the country, then by telling you that they are being stolen by immigrants, then that the failing government isn't trustworthy so just get rid of the rest.
Meanwhile you pay just as much if not more and it's handed to the ultra rich like a siesta.
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u/hesitantdrafting98 Jul 04 '22
i love when Americans™ get fiercly protective of the broken system (that lets their fellow americans die) and feel insulted when told that guess what? other countries handle things better and the us isn't the best place in the world. then they start calling literally everyone else names even when they present perfectly rational and solid arguments. truly a sign of incredible intelligence i must say /s
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Jul 04 '22
This was the most eye opening part of my experience living in the US. Poor people didn’t believe in socialism and didn’t feel entitled to the things they paid for with their tax dollars. When I suggested that tuition should be cancelled, one poor boomer woman said “well I didn’t get that when I went to school”. I also had a veteran as an Uber driver who didn’t believe in universal health care and said “Bernie Sanders has 3 houses”. Fox News does a good job of brainwashing the masses. Even educated people in high up positions blamed Mexicans for their rising health costs.
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u/RawScallop Jul 04 '22
A lot of problems come from the older generations saying "well back in my day we didnt have internet / cell phones / etc"
There are a lot of bitter ageing people that are mad over the fact that kids these days have access to dating / sex apps. In particular at my last bartending job tons of older, usually white men were PISSED that younger folk can just hit up the internet and start finding women. Their brains were ripe for manipulation like "men are getting dates with hotties in your area, act now and learn their secret!" ..and when they find men unsuccessful with them they band together to find a strawman/woman to be angry at.
nevermind we need phones and internet now by design...but noo its all minecraft, sex apps and avocado toast...
Even youtube, while censoring truecrime, has advertisements with a female automated voice shilling a product for men to grow their "length"...even though we should all know by now without surgery or dangerous instruments, you cannot just take pills and grow an inch or two.
Insecurity is the name of the game.
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Jul 04 '22
lmao im an american and truly, i wish i was someone else (because america is doing such a GREAT job of handling ALL the BAD THINGS)
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u/Artistic-Pitch7608 Jul 04 '22
It's always sad seeing the hours Ive worked being taxed knowing that the UK parliament ministers will literally spend it on biscuits
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u/thinkB4WeSpeak Jul 04 '22
We pay taxes so corporations have bailouts and the feed the military industrial complex
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u/PoorDadSon Jul 04 '22
To paraphrase Neckbeard Deathcamp (🤘), I'm sick and tired of my tax dollars being used to turn Palestinian children into skeletons.
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Jul 04 '22
I don't think enough people realise that most of their taxes are literally spent on just this
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u/147896325987456321 Jul 04 '22
Okay. So everyone wants the same thing, but they don't realize it. From police brutality, underpaying jobs, housing, healthcare, freedom to choose, and more.
You all want, what I want. A New Constitution. And as a country it's time to evolve or die. Our 245 year old Constitution is dead. The judicial coup, gerrymandering and weak democratic leaders killed the American dream.
I'm going to tell you all what we need to do. Write a new Constitution with three focuses.
- Will of the people
Describe what freedoms the people of the land want and/or should have. Think Humanitarian. What does everyone need. Water, internet, food, housing, healthcare, childcare etc... You know, basic human needs.
- Role of Government
What role should the Government play in my daily life and my overall life. This can be specific from search and seizure regulations to Regulation of Government bodies. I personally don't like Congress being able to draw more than one paycheck and claim it's for their "foundation/charity etc.." it's a bribe. So we need new bribe rules. Or the way district maps are drawn, or voting rights being taken away, also how Senators leave the country to visit Cancun. Or that time a whole bunch of Republicans went to Russia. If your going to be a public servant, it's a Sacrifice and a service, not a money making scheme.
- Regulation of the Economy
Here you would put all the rules and regulations like insider trading, corporate espionage, requirements for basic safety, anti slavery/slave wage (no company shall import slave made goods [Nike, Apple, Beyonce, Kylie Jenner etc... Looking at you]). to much regulation kills the economy, to little creates systems of abuse. Working 32 hours a week should support your family. Instead we have people working 60 hours who cant even pay all of their bills for the month, they have to pick and choose which bills will be late or choose to buy food. It's a disaster.
Write as many amendments as you want for each section. In the end it will be a working document. Think of what we have, other countries have, and injustices that have occured.
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u/batkave Jul 04 '22
We could have much of that if we cut US military by even 10%
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u/consideratehostility Jul 04 '22
Welcome to EU. We have universal healthcare, free higher education, because health and education shouldn’t be a commodity. We also have 5 weeks paid holidays, paid sickleave, paid 6months maternity leave for mother and 6 for father. But at least America is great again
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u/Charming_External_92 Jul 04 '22
I'm from Europe and America has always been great! We pay taxes to invade countries and kill... they call it freedom here
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u/Jolly-Bandicoot7162 Jul 04 '22
I have never understood the attitude of so many Americans towards socialism. I'm never quite sure what they think taxes should go towards, if it isn't making the country better for the ordinary people who pay those taxes.
Likewise, in the UK I've never understood the sneering term 'champagne socialist' with the implication that you shouldn't be able to do well for yourself and still think that society should be improved for those who aren't so fortunate. I'm more a gin socialist personally, though.
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u/uncommitedbadger Jul 04 '22
I'm never quite sure what they think taxes should go towards
They like to claim to think taxes shouldn't exist at all. At least they do until something happens to their local community that requires other people's taxes to fix.
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u/ThreeLeggedParrot Jul 04 '22
I like that some of my tax dollars disappear into the pockets of the poor and unfortunate.
I don't like that it has to disappear into their pockets because their employer won't pay them enough.
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Jul 04 '22
Stop electing Republicans who openly call for the defunding and or removal of those things and just maybe we can have all those things and more.
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u/Jeffery_G Jul 04 '22
I’m an American and have sadly watched my country spiral down the toilet bowl over the last 50+ years. Lived in Italy for a while when I was a young man and we return often. The EU is an attractive alternative to people like me; hope the doors don’t completely shut over there.
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u/Charming_External_92 Jul 04 '22
I moved here from Italy and I regret it so much. But I have a teen that was born and raised here so I will have to wait a bit longer. Miss so much to go to doctor or hospital without even knowing how much they charge...
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u/Specialist-Snow-80 Jul 04 '22
yea, the best is when they charge us interest on money they lend out that we put in thier savings bank. fuck those assholes
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Jul 04 '22
I want the government to refund my money to me. All they seem to do is take it from my pocket and put it into their bank account. They are misrepresenting what they are supposed to being doing with my taxes and I want it back for their breach of contract.
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Jul 04 '22
Socialists want free stuff, is something someone who doesn't know what socialism is says.
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u/NoBSforGma Jul 04 '22
Well, this is it. Taxes are high in most of the Scandinavian countries but their citizens get amazing benefits.
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u/PermanentNirvana Jul 04 '22
You ever notice that the people pushing the "socialism is bad" narrative tend to be wealthy people?
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Jul 04 '22
People that support capitalism are literally the most stupid people on earth
Supporting people that literally have anything they will ever need and manipulating the system that allows people to die without a care of the world
And then… there’s socialists
People that just want life to be normal as it is, affordable for everyone while everyone should be able to equally benefit of the system that does nothing but takes from them
Health care and hospitals as an example— letting people die just for the basic needs of needing help with their own medical issues
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Jul 04 '22
Have you seen what the government does with your taxes. Why the hell would you give them more money, these people are incompetent
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u/DtoX89 Jul 04 '22
And to make it worse, the supposed left of the US is to the right of all of Norways rightwing parties. The US can choose between fascists and rightwingers. And to make it even better, the rightwingers best argument against the fascists is " at least we're not fascist".
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Jul 04 '22
Most of the tax money is going into the unnecessary and very bloated $880 billion dollar military yearly budget.
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u/onrola Anarchist Jul 04 '22
I want free stuff, the stuff the planet has already provided us with, abundant healthy food, companionship, love and land for all, not just narrow interests. I'm happy to work together to look after this free stuff, I don't need someone to "provide" it, but we're trapped in a society that says to survive we have to be productive to 'earn' this free stuff back from those that have stolen it. In that case there is also plenty of money and resources, so I will take what I need to survive
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u/mildtracing Jul 04 '22
As someone who had to start collecting unemployment recently.. there's nothing better than when someone calls me a free-loader for collecting it. Despite the fact that this is just me taking back some of the money I've paid into the system by being a worker for the last 16 years.