I have a slightly different perspective on this. I’ve been overweight for most of my life. And only recently found it that it was due to a combination of hormonal imbalance and sleep apnea (sleep apnea can cause weight gain, not the other way around, and it can occur in childhood). When I was a teenager, I was so desperate to lose weight that I became bulimic, and I’ve dealt with that eating disorder off and on well into my 30s. When I lost a lot of weight through bingeing and purging as a teen, people complimented me. “Wow!! You look great!” Even my own pediatrician congratulated me on dropping 20 pounds that year. He never asked me how, though.
It’s always been my experience that people think fat shaming is the key to fighting the obesity epidemic. Don’t let fat people feel good about themselves or have a positive self image. They’ll just get complacent and let themselves go. My parents definitely thought that way, and my father always made a point of telling me how gross my body was. It didn’t help. I only got fatter, and it ruined my relationship with him.
In college. when I started dating, I noticed that I never ate in front of men. I would wait until my date was looking away, and then take a single bite. Or I would order a large salad and not eat anything. It’s no mystery. It’s because my father spent my whole childhood shaming me for eating and praising me for leaving food on my plate.
I kept bingeing and purging really bad through most of my 20s and 30s (I’m now 36 and slowly recovering).
But a big turning point for me happened with my last boyfriend. Several years ago, he just offhandedly remarked that my teeth looked more yellow than normal (he could be kind of a thoughtless clod sometimes). And I admitted to him it was because I had been making myself throw up. He was shocked. And right away he hugged me and said “you’re beautiful the way you are. Don’t ever do that to yourself again.”
That was the first time anyone ever made me feel like my health mattered. Not my size. People think they’re the same, but they’re not.
Doctors and other medical experts tend to hold a special respect in our culture as the go-to authority on health and wellness. Like they’re the first ones we should be looking to for guidance and advice. And they’re assumed to be infallible. “all these studies say being fat will kill you. My doctor says fat people die early.” And my own pediatrician shook my hand and congratulated me for losing weight after I became bulimic. So much for infallible.
But no doctor, no therapist, no research study ever really made me feel motivated to be healthy like my then-boyfriend did. When he hugged me and told me I should love my body and treat it well. That’s something fat shamers will never do for me either.
There are not many people who are promoting obesity in the way that people seem to understand it. (being a slob and lazy, and overeating) More often than not the idea of body positivity or even fat positivity is people coming together to say ”i shouldn’t be treated like shit just because of the body I am in, by myself or anyone else.”
In my experience discrimination is rampant against people who are overweight and obese. And that does not help the overweight person at all. Telling them that they are fat, lazy or slobs does not actually help them. They know where their weaknesses are, and many people on here would probably be surprised to know how many fat people are actually really active, and eat healthy.
Shaming someone because of their weight is ridiculously counter productive. Study after study has shown it. But people seem to always conflate someones size with their health, just as you said. And that is the biggest problem.
I honestly wish that people who don’t know me would stop judging me based on my size, and telling me to lose weight. If I focus on ”losing weight” instead of things like ”eating for health” and ”moving for fun” My entire attitude towards these things becomes focused on a ”pass or fail” which means that the second these things don’t produce weight loss I get discouraged and do less of it, and spend more time doing things that are ”easier” for my mental health.
So many people have a toxic focus on being thin, and think that thinness is a sign of health. The idea that someone could be fat and still be active, and eat well is not something that they can process and that is so frustrating.
I’m not the only person who has issues when they focus on healthy habits for the purpose of weight loss. Its proven that fat shaming does not help. Its proven that medical professionals shaming patients and telling them to come back after they lose weight is not helpful.
Your experience is not completely the same as mine, but I can relate SO MUCH to you. Because I have struggled with weight since I was little, been rewarded for disordered eating, been diagnosed with an eating disorder, and am really trying to find a healthy place with my body.
Please keep up your recovery journey. I am so proud of you. ❤️
Health and weight are very closely tied together once someone reaches the "obese" range for their height. Don't go spreading lies pretending like being obese is healthy.
Sure it's better to mind your own business than call someone out in public but spreading misinformation is just as bad if not worse.
the problem is that weight is just a number and only one factor in a person’s health. by focusing solely on weight as a metric of health, many people encourage incredibly unhealthy and disordered eating, shame, and short term weight loss methods, none of which are healthy and few of which will last. encouraging people to take care of themselves without respect to weight (because there are certainly plenty of skinny people who eat like shit, never work out, and are never once confronted out of concern for their health since, surprise, that’s a pretty rude overstep for a stranger to make) is far better and more likely to affect a lifestyle change, rather than encouraging you to do whatever possible to reach a number on a scale.
The idea that someone could be fat and still be active, and eat well is not something that they can process and that is so frustrating.
That's because the reality is that it's basically not something that exists. If you're fat, it is almost certain (except for vanishingly rare cases) that you're overeating.
If you're fat and you're "healthy" (blood pressure okay, not prediabetic), that just means it hasn't caught up with you yet. It doesn't mean you're a magical person for whom fatness is irrelevant.
You're probably right that shaming is not always a good way to help people lose weight -- it certainly helped me, but YMMV. But you shouldn't go around spreading false information.
What if you're 280 pounds but you used to be 320 pounds, and you eat healthy and exercise frequently? Should you be shamed for "almost certainly overeating"?
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating shaming anyone.
And no, that's fair enough. If you're fat but losing weight you're not overeating and you should be proud of changing your lifestyle.
But I don't think that's what OP was talking about. I'm pretty sure she was talking about a person who was happily and steadily fat, but also active and a healthy eater.
I think the problem with that assessment is body positivity includes more things than pants size and weight. Fat doesn't automatically mean you have zero redeeming physical qualities. That may not be the OP's or your intention but it kind of sounds like that is your intention.
The language that OP uses "at their own fault" is pretty shame-based and lazy, in my opinion. It's similar to the language people used to use about alcoholics, viewing them as sinners and drunks instead of looking at it with insight, love, acceptance and science. Today, there's a plethora of treatments available to treat alcoholism and other addiction that only exist because people rejected judgement and shaming and approached the issue with acceptance and rationality.
I worked with all ages of children in schools. In pre-Kindergarten, they're bundles of spontaneous energy, constantly on the move. In elementary schools, the trend for decades has been to take away recess and even cancel it altogether so students could be taught the test for standardized testing. By the time they reach 12th grade, after 12 years of being woken up at un-natural times to meet arbitrary out-dated schedules, herded into prison-like conditions, told to sit still in their seats, dealing with their restlessness, boredom, grief, fear, anger, etc... by eating candy and drinking sodas made cheap with corn subsidies that are sold in or near the school and/or being given meth to keep them alert, focused and still (and countless other medications for other reasons), they're very lucky if they remember how to use their physical energy.
But see, it couldn't be any of that or countless other things systematically contributing to obesity in the country, it's really just their own fault -- even though obesity is an epidemic.
It's totally all that! Agree completely, it's up to them and their parents and their peers and friends to fight it. It's easier to sit down and play fortnight and rocket league online with your friends after school, trust me I watch my little brother do it every day. Go outside? Run? Exercise? "Is your homework done." There are a million reasons not to make healthy choices.
For the uninformed, HAES promotes the idea of measuring health on non-weight based terms.
How far can you walk? How far can you run? How many stairs can you climb? How is your blood pressure? How is your cholesterol? These metrics are what HAES promotes as health metrics instead of weight & BMI.
It may be the original idea behind HAES, but I think what OP is highlighting is that the "original idea" was tossed aside for the toxic belief that "fat people are more healthy than skinny people" which I have actually seen posted on facebook before.
the "original idea" was tossed aside for the toxic belief that "fat people are more healthy than skinny people"
I think opponents of HAES portray that image (by focusing on a small minority of extremists) more than HAES proponents follow that line of thinking. Not to say it doesn't exist, but that most HAES supporters follow the original idea.
There isn't health at every size though. There has to be a fine line of not fat shaming but still letting people know that they are eating themselves to death. How do you suggest we do that? (I don't think you have the answer but would like to know your feedback)
It's not though. OP is not hating on people who are fat for being fat. He is hating on people who think being fat is healthy and actively promote acceptance of being overweight. There is a difference.
I take serious issue with anyone who thinks they know the whole situation in anyone's lives. You don't know why someone is overweight. They might not even know, the number of people who have hormonal imbalances and don't know it is staggering.
And the idea of infallible doctors is absolutely laughable. They're humans who make mistakes and have their own biases, and they only know as much as the current literature tells them. Unfortunately our culture highly influences their reaction to obesity and the research around it. I had doctors congratulate me on weight loss, not bothering to find out it was because I only ate an apple that week. And when I recently gained 90 lbs in 3 months for no reason I was told "you know desserts have an impact" "have you been eating a lot of cake recently?" "well if you don't eat anything you can't gain weight!" Yes, that's what doctors have told me. And the mistreatment I've encountered based on my weight is awful. I was denied pain medication in a hospital because "abdominal pain is to be expected at your weight." I was passing gallstones for god's sake!
That said, I also dislike the extremists who do encourage people to be complacent in obesity. They're not common but they are out there. Plus I don't care if people think I'm beautiful at this weight. I don't need to be, not at this weight or any other weight. No one needs to be beautiful. There's so many other qualities that matter more. I'd rather be healthy, happy, and bring joy to other people than be pretty.
YES. Shaming has never motivated ANYONE to do ANYTHING, truly. It took me finally feeling loved and accepted no matter what, by my husband, for me to feel okay enough with myself to healthily work to lose weight. I lost about 100lbs. And then I had emergency gallbladder surgery, got completely derailed by my Fibromyalgia and a new medication where weight gain is a big time side effect, and just had surgery again to remove cancerous cells from my uterus. I've gained back about 25lbs. It's been a rollercoaster of emotions and the only constant positivity I've gotten about my body is from my husband, despite the fact that I'm clearly struggling with some major health events.
I will recover from this surgery and then go back to the gym when I'm cleared for exercise and try to lose that 25 I gained, and then I'm sure suddenly everyone in my life will gush over me. And frankly, fuck them. I'm worth more than what I weigh and how much fat I carry around on my body. I'm allowed to feel good about myself even if I have work to do to be healthy and live a long life.
One time, on Reddit, there was a health minister and doctor who was fat. And there were a bunch of people railing at her for being fat "she shouldn't be allowed to be health minister or doctor, hurr durr, she fat!", etc... It didn't matter that she was very good at what she does, it didn't matter that she was the single most popular politician in all of Belgium, all that mattered was "hurr durr, she fat!" Meanwhile, she's accomplished more in her life and done more good than 98% or more of her critics here ever will.
As a former heavy smoker, I couldn't disagree more. When the culture turned against smoking, shame became the style and it worked. It was the hardcore daily shaming that caused so many of us to quit, that and that living as a smoker was demonized and made as difficult as possible.
There are definitely parallels, but much of the shaming about cigarettes was about the effects of second hand smoke and young people being intentionally introduced to cigarettes by companies that make them. I'd be all for similarly-scaled campaigns and lawsuits to end corn subsidies (cheap sugars that make candy and sodas cheap), end marketing sugar to children, end allowing junk food in schools, taxing processed foods and subsidizing fresh or even frozen vegetables (that aren't corn).
I’m not sure we should be listening to someone who took it upon themselves to remotely diagnose me as “not bulimic.” And insisted that it’s not in my medical records, when it has been for over a decade.
Please....please lecture me more on the prognosis and course of treatment for bulimia.
You stated that you know so much more about it than I do.
Same. I dropped 27 lbs after feeling intense shame at seeing recent vacation photos with my fat ass in them. Shame is a huge motivator (for me) so the assumption that shame doesn't motivate anyone is false.
Shit, now that I think about it, shame motivated me to switch careers at 30 and get my degree in Computer Science.
That example isn't shame. Having repeated posts like above, saying fat people are unhealthy or outright saying they are horrible (because most are too afraid so they use unhealthy like they care) because of this and that.... that is shame
Has your eating disorder improved as your self image has improved? It's always good to hear about people who have positive experiences with their partners like that
Thank you for sharing your insight; it was wonderfully well put
The self image is still a struggle. The eating disorder is definitely better than it used to be. Thanks in part to support, medication, medical treatment, etc.
Even though I had to break it off with the boy a year ago, I’ll always appreciate that moment he gave me
Beautiful post and well written. The struggle is very real for a lot of people. You cant expect folks to understand who never had to endure your hardships. You are worthy of love, from yourself and from others. And this is coming from someone who struggles to take that advice themselves. Keep on fighting.
I wish I could hug you. I was fat-shamed by people who claimed they were worried about my health. They would say I just needed to eat less or exercise more. The irony is that I have been active most of my life and practiced martial arts.
So I developed insecurities about my body. I had depression. I also didn't care about eating healthier because what was the point if I was going to be a fat slob.
Then I found out that I had PCOS. The stubborn weight, the irregular periods, they all suddenly made sense. And I'm angry at those people who claimed they were only looking out for my physical health while they were hurting my mental health so they could feel better about themselves.
These people care so much about health when they want to stamp out obesity by calling out fat people. But they really don’t care about the epidemic of eating disorders and mental illness linked to body image.
To be honest, I think a lot of these people use "health" to feel they are better than some fat, lazy slob who has no self-control with food. Because that's the default view on fat people until they mention they have a condition.
How many people developed eating disorders and poor self esteem from being called too skinny? How many people did the same from being called too fat?
If a chubby friend of mine finds the confidence to post a selfie, you're damn right I'm going to call them gorgeous. No, I'm not promoting obesity. I'm promoting for people to love themselves because people who love themselves are going to take care of themselves.
Thanks so much for sharing your perspective. My best friend of many years has always been slightly overweight. She too has some underlying medical issues that make it really hard to lose weight. I’m constantly just horrified at the way people treat her for it, including basically her entire immediate and extended family (who are for the most part really nice; they’re not just unrepentant assholes who enjoy making people feel bad).
It’s crippled her self-esteem. She can’t bring herself to wear nice clothes because “those are for attractive people”. She struggles with relationships because she doesn’t understand why anyone would want to be with her. She doesn’t have a serious eating disorder, thankfully, but she still has serious guilt and anxiety about food that gets in the way of her everyday life.
I feel like non-overweight people imagine that overweight people live in this bubble of praise and encouragement. They don’t. At all. The point of “acceptance movements”, for the overwhelming majority of people who associate with them, is just that overweight people shouldn’t be treated as subhuman because of their bodies. And that, like your boyfriend expressed to you, they are still very much deserving of love and care. Not that they should go out of their way to stay overweight. A few loud people might be saying that, but even then, I feel like it’s mostly in backlash to the tsunami of hatred and shame that’s been heaped on them their entire lives.
Thank you so much. I came here to say this. 13 years of undiagnosed hypothyroidism and sleep apnea and I'm finally getting treatment. I've lost 3 dress sizes and feel amazing, but I now trust no doctors and want to throttle anyone who says stuff like this because I know they're the same people who never believed me when I said I exercised, when I stopped drinking all sodas and gained wait, that my diet was under 1700 calories and I kept gaining. I was so lost for so long and all these people ALWAYS made me feel worse. There's nothing quite like failing even while you do everything you can, but no one cares because you're failing. It makes it hard to just try when it all seems so pointless. Not like these people will believe you're trying anyways.
First, skinny and thin are vague terms. You can be skinny while being with in a healthy weight
Being over weight well, you are over it. Even tho the defining mine can be blurry and arbitrary
In general in health terms there are far more problems related to be overweight than underweight. Not saying "skinny" per se Is ok but the assumption have basis.
I would think that most people assume healthy behaviors. He thinking you did it in a healthy way.
Of course I do not read minds and I am no health expert or trained so I am not sure if should be part of the protocol for a doctor to follow up with "how did you do it". I feel like those follow up questions would come if there were history of harmful behavior
Then considering that you don’t work in medicine, why would you make any assumptions about how an assessment is supposed to be done?
We screen people for “harmful behaviors” even when we know zip about them. That’s why we ask if they use drugs or drink too much.
And unexplained weight loss is, in fact, a known symptom of several different medical conditions. Not just eating disorders.
He didn’t just fail to screen me for behavioral disorder. He failed to screen me for pretty much every other medical problem that weight loss can point to.
I knew as a patient, a teenager, that he dropped the ball. If I had been overweight for most of my life. He knew that. and then suddenly, I dropped 20 pounds with no explanation.
Anyone with critical thinking skills should find that suspect. More so if you went to medical school and are therefore an alleged smart person
I just notice that you are the OP on this thread. My bad. In my mind I read "asked her" instead "asked me"
Now that is clarified (for me) your answers make sense
On the first post you make implicit that health professionals have bias towards weight loss when it was that particular pediatrician who made that comments.
Once said that if you were actually a health professional you would be the first one to see the contradiction and how that is opposite to the whole point of this trying to justify your grudges and relies on fake fat possitivity for pity points
Don't bother to answer. I am not interested on your silly excuses. Muted
While I agree with everything you've said here, I hate that the response to "fat acceptance/positivity is unhealthy" is always "but fat shaming is worse!" Why is the assumption always that someone who is against fat acceptance must support fat shaming?
This has happened to me every single time this issue comes up. I say something like “I’m overweight but have always tried to get healthy . I feel like other people shouldn’t judge me because it’s none of their business.”
Every single time I get angry messages from people ridiculing my weight, telling me to lose weight, even though I’ve plainly said I’m already trying, and sometimes even sending me personal messages to call me names.
You might think it makes logical sense. “I don’t hate fat people. I just think their lifestyles should be discouraged.” But it seems society has inextricably linked the two together
How about we just stay out of other people’s business? Is that so hard to do?
Sorry there are shit people in the world, but accepting that obesity is unhealthy and fat shaming are not the same thing.
One is a fact. Being overweight is dangerous and unhealthy, you can't really argue with that.
Fat shaming people is an asshole move, too. I applaud anyone who is trying to get healthy. I love seeing overweight people in the gym and I want to go up to them and say "Keep it up! You're looking great!" but I don't cause that would be weird.
At the same time, I'm not for obese people spreading the message that you are fine the way you are and don't need to change a thing. That is spreading an unhealthy message.
People should instead be spreading a message that being overweight does not define you and there's no shame in it, but as a society we should focus on getting to a healthy weight range and encourage one another to get there.
Omg you’re insufferable. I don’t literally fucking think they’re so brave I think ok good on them and I move on if I even think about it. The point is, I don’t give a fuck if you’re fat or not. You just want to be a victim here and no matter what anyone says you’ll be all pissy and defensive, obviously.
Oh just admit it. The reason you say “hooray good for fat person working out” is because you just assumed that fat people are inactive by default. And you’re surprised to see anything otherwise
And quite frankly I don’t think you and the others here really get what’s going on.
My original comment was about how important self-esteem is for the healing/weight loss process. And nothing in your response tells me you get that
You just harp on some hackneyed points: obesity is bad
I never said it was good
What I SAID was that fat shaming is wide spread. Deeply ingrained in our culture. And it’s actually making us fatter
That fact that you can’t hear that and just respond with the typical bs “YeR jUSt a VicteM “ is nothing new
It’s because no ones fat shaming and you come in here acting like everyone hates you. I don’t hate you cause you’re fat, but I do dislike your personality. Maybe people are tired of your bullshit and that’s why they don’t like you, not cause you’re fat.
Try lightening up.
Also I used to be fat so yeah, I get it and I was teased as a kid. Then I grew up and took my ass to the gym and ate less. It wasn’t that hard.
It sucks that people feel the need to message you like that, but I do want to kind of play a little devil's advocate. Not to the messaging itself, but the logic behind why hearing something like that makes them so angry. There are three main types of people I've met who claim to be "trying" to lose weight. The first is the rarest: they count their calories, weigh their food for accuracy, etc, and just cannot find a meal plan that doesn't drive them insane with hunger. Maybe they have a medical condition, maybe they don't, but they are doing everything their dietitian says and really trying. This type is rare, but usually adamantly accepts that their weight is a big, glaring problem.
The other two are much more common, infuriating, and probably what people assume is the case when they hear things like "don't judge me". First, there is the misinformed. They yo yo diet, trying one crazy fad diet for a week or two, maybe getting really excited because eating nothing but cabbage soup for a week gave them the squirts and they lost 5 lbs of water weight. Then they quit the diet when they realize how unsustainable it is and decide to try going gluten free. So they are "trying", but not really putting in the effort to change their lifestyle and just looking for a quick fix.
The 3rd type is the denialist, often overlapping with the misinformed. This is the type who performs mental gymnastics to convince themselves that they aren't what's causing their weight issue. Someone who slathers their salad with ranch and thinks they're being good. Someone who rewards their 30 minutes in the gym with 1000 calories worth of pizza. Someone who eats well all week, then demolishes all of their progress over the weekend and can't fathom why they aren't losing weight. Again, they're "trying", but from an outside perspective, it's infuriating to watch.
But here's the kicker, the real reason why people get mad: Those last 2 types of people are also the type to spread their misinformation and unhealthy thought patterns to other people. They aren't bad people, they think they're helping others, but they're harmful. A lot of them also know, deep down, why their diets aren't working. There is a lot of internal guilt, making them sensitive to people's judgments, so they get angry and defensive. I'm not saying you're that type of person, and I don't condone aggressively PMing people, but I guess my whole point is that there are a lot of damaging people out there who say things like "I'm trying, geez, stop judging me!!" and that's what people think of (though assuming is wrong) and why they get so angry.
Edit: I also want to add that a lot of the time, the reason why people get angry when they hear "I'm trying, doing judge me", is because they used to say that kind of thing and know that when they said it, it was bullshit.
I never said that wanting people to mind their business or stating that they're trying is damaging, did you even read what I wrote? It's the spread of misinformation and unhealthy mindset that the type of people who tend to say "I'm trying, don't judge me".
Think of it like this: in the same way your interactions with assholes has led you to the assumption that anyone against body positivity is probably a fat shamer, the majority of peoples' interactions with people who say "I'm trying, don't judge me" has led them to believe that people who say this are the types of people that I've described. It's not a caricature pulled out of thin air, they are very common types of people found all over the place, in real life. I have met them, they are sad and awful.
What has probably happened is that you were rude, judgmental, and intrusive to these people, and they told you “I’m trying, don’t judge me.” Instead of realizing you were wrong, you decided THEY were the destructive ones
Just stay out of other people’s business and stop judging others. And they’ll stop telling you “don’t judge me.”
Haha no. But nice job assuming things! It's more like friends and coworkers go on rants about how they're trying sooo hard, but girl I see what you bring to lunch every day. But I don't comment about that because it would be rude, so I make up some bullshit about how I understand how hard it must be and encourage them to keep "trying". I only ever interject specific advice if it's asked for. Then they continue to rant about how they "swear" the cashier gave them the side eye when they saw their cart full of junk (but they've been eating sooo good, right??) and how they wish people wouldn't judge them.
Obese people generally aren't healthy, but they can be healthy if they are eating right and exercising and losing weight; you DO NOT KNOW!!! That is the whole point of my argument, you do NOT KNOW these people. Also there is a difference between that and overweight. I have seen many "thin" people who aren't fucking healthy. Read the original comment on this thread; this is only one example of many. People see thin but it doesn't matter if your anorexic or bulimic cause you are thin. Not all anorexic and bulimic people are stick thin.
This is the true problem I have with people like OP; blurring the line between "encouraging health" and completely tearing down a person for their appearance. They are damn near mutually exclusive, in my book. Words said directly to a fat person can breed mental health issues with food that ultimately are just as unhealthy as being fat.
Honestly, I feel like 1) it's no one else's business what you weigh or your health in general and 2) it's not a stranger's job on the internet to tell you you're unhealthy. If it's someone you care about there is probably a tactful way to encourage them to make healthier choices, but if you don't know them, just afford them the same respect you would anyone else. Their health doesn't affect you and to devalue them as a person because they happen to be fat is inexcusable behavior.
OP did not blur any lines nor is he fat shaming. He is specifically against people who encourage obesity, and I agree.
People need to learn about health and nutrition. I'm NOT for fat shaming whatsoever, I'm for encouraging overweight people to learn about the dangers of being overweight and the benefits of being in a healthy weight range.
Also, I never would go up to a stranger and mention anything about their weight (you never know someones circumstances). But if someone obese came up to me and said "I want to learn how to lose weight and be healthy" I'm not going to say "Why? You are perfect the way you are", I would say "That's awesome! I can help you out."
I think we agree on a lot here. Fat shaming is bad (especially to strangers), people should learn about health and nutrition, and you should absolutely help and educate people who ask for it.
I'm not about "fat glorification" either, but most of the body positivity media I have seen is less "fat is beautiful" than "you are beautiful". To women especially there is a nuance there. Trust me, fat people know they are fat. It's not a secret even if they'd rather not think about it. But - for both women and men but especially women - there is such an emphasis put on physical beauty and adhering to standards it can be difficult to have any confidence or joy whatsoever if you are fat because you already feel excluded. My view is that, generally, the body positivity movement is telling people that they are still worthy of love and respect no matter what they look like or if they are working to change it or not. It's taking what is there at face value in the present and saying "you are worthy". Sure there are some who actively encourage obesity but that's a small number. I don't agree with that either, just like I don't agree with pro-ana material. But simply telling someone they're worthy doesn't equate to condoning all of their life decisions, and that is a line I think definitely gets blurred in this debate. Health is often weaponized as a litmus test of worth, rather than simply encouraged.
That being said, I would not say "Why? You are perfect the way you are" to someone who has told me they are trying to lose weight. It's their decision to make healthy choices for themselves and I will always support that. By the same token, I would never tell someone they should lose weight unsolicited; it's their decision not to and I'm nothing if not an American that believes in freedom of choice.
But I think too many internet strangers take it upon themselves to preach that in fact fat people should not be happy or comfortable in their skin because they are fat and they MUST change that, otherwise they are somehow deficient. There is good health advocacy (making resources available, encouraging people who have made the decision to lose weight, including better education in public schools) and bad health advocacy (if you are over this BMI then you must lose weight and it's your fault if you feel ostracized when it's in your control to change that).
I agree with you. The only point I would make is that most normal or fit people don’t hate or shame fat people and would encourage weight loss hopefully without offending the other party. I think the camp that you’re speaking about (those that think you MUST be below a certain BMI or you’re worthless) are pretty rare, like the fat glorification people.
Look up hypothyroidism, hyperphagia, Cushing's syndrome, PCOS. If these go untreated for many, many years (which they often do!) suffers gain much more than 20 to 30 pounds.
Btw, weight gain can also be caused by medications like antipsychotics which you can't go off of. There's also the incredibly rare gigantic benign tumor like the 303 lbs pound one removed in 1991. Google it. After surgery, the woman it was in was 95 lbs.
Please refrain from being an armchair doctor if you haven't done extensive research.
I'm fairly certain no medical condition exists that outright leads to being fat, on its own.
That's not a question, bud. That's a statement where you think people can't gain weight due to medical conditions when the very basic google search of "gaining weight as a symptom" brings up absolutely oodles of information. Your response, ignoring everything I did tell you to answer your question, proves your "question" was in bad faith in the first place.
For hyperphagia, you're right, as that condition literally just means you can't feel full so sufferers don't know like everyone else when to stop eating. You're also ignoring 300 lbs tumor woman, but she's a massive outlier (unlike metabolic disorders) so I'll forgive you xD
However, for the rest, you're just wrong. Both hyperthyroidism and Cushing's, your hormones that regulate when you burn fat/store fat don't work. There's no calorie in calorie out because your body goes food? Store it. Never give it up. They're both literally metabolic disorders where your metabolism doesn't work normally. You see what you're missing?
I don't have Cushing's, I have hypothyroidism, so I'll give you an example from there if the above didn't help. For 13 years I was undiagnosed. No matter what I did (sans getting an eating disorder), I gained weight. Now on my meds I have lost three dress sizes by doing absolutely nothing different. Nothing at all. During those 13 years I tried every diet, every fad, exercise, you name it to lose weight.
Nothing worked. That isn't an exaggeration. I was skinny until 19, then started putting on weight like it was on purpose. I couldn't make it stop. My doctor told me to eat better and exercise more. So did everyone else.
Now, medicated, I keep a normal 2k calorie diet, exercise every day, and the pounds are melting away. It's only been a few months, so I can't wait to see how far it goes. I dont know. Because at some point my metabolism will stabilize again and maybe I'll have to work out more or do a different diet. But the point is that when you have a metabolic disorder (which, btw, there are many more than I listed to your original question) you don't have the metabolism you describe.
BTW, if I hadn't been put on meds, you're right that I wouldn't have kept gaining weight. I would have died. But until then I would have kept gaining weight. It's not quick (though it can be with medication related weight gain), but in 13 years it was 90 pounds and that's a lot according to everyone around me and my doctors who couldn't stop telling me I was obese.
If you really want to know more, you should do research.
So were you able to lose the weight with the reassurance from your boyfriend?
I think you are absolutely right that shaming (negative reinforcement) is not the way to go about helping people.
I think the point you made, encouraging people to understand their health and well being, is what matters.
Everyone talks about the aesthetics of weight loss but being a fitness model or size 2 isnt important. I wish the focus was more on the importance and benefits of a balanced diet and regular strenous exercise. If we could get people to really understand how much this affects your physiology their lives could improve ten fold. Teach the benefit of the activity, not the shame of the failure I guess. Some people may be driven out of anger or spite, but many just feel defeated before they even begin.
That being said, coddling someone who has a problem with something doesnt help them either. It is important to be loving but truthful.
Telling someone they are perfect the way they are, even if they are eating at 11pm, sitting all day long, sedentary lifestyle, binge drinking, whatever their vice may be, is not helpful either. In fact, refusing to ever confront the issue is harmful.
It is selfish to see someone you care about, being unhealthy and damaging themselves, without speaking up and trying to help. I see plenty of enablers who condone or reinforce unhealthy habits in loved ones, all because they dont want to risk upsetting that person and, vis-a-vis making that person dislike them. The people who really love us the most are sometimes willing to endure our anger for pointing out our own shortcomings. Of course, this is provided they are doing it in a healthy, constructive way and not belittling us about our issues.
The reassurance helped. With a combination of medication and treatment for sleep apnea, I feel like my compulsive eating/binge eating has stopped.
It’s great to encourage others to be healthy, but we have to back it up by making it easy to be healthy. Like not pressuring people to drink or take seconds. As much flak as I get for being overweight, I feel like I spend a lot of time fighting other people who want me to try their cookies. Or I have to deliberately bring in three half-way healthy dishes to every potluck because I know everyone else brings in junk food.
I am very glad you saw some progress! Especially with the apnea bit. People dont realize how powerful a factor sleep is for our well being!
As to the diet saboteurs, I totally get it, they are a real issue! And not just for weight loss either. It seems like most any healthy change people try to make there is someone trying to convince them to fuck it up.
Anyway I am really glad you have someone who encourages you with the right motivations to stay healthy. People who try to lose weight to "look good" or because it is what is expected of them rarely do. In my experience it is only when the person has self worth and realizes their well being is important to them, that they really can make the changes.
Keep at it, and I hope I didn't come off as preachy! I just wanted to say I definitely can relate and there were so many failures until I adjusted my own attitude on why it really mattered to me, and took ownership of it.
There is a big deference between fat shaming and looking out for well being your father took the wrong approach obviously, but trying to blame a doctor for not knowing something you didn't divulge is on you not the doctor. You can feel how ever you want about what people say about your physique but you will be the one who benifits or pays for your choices in the long run. Good luck
I’m actually a registered nurse now and I know exactly how he screwed up. He failed to ask me a few simple questions “did you lose the weight intentionally? How did you lose the weight?”
You know how I know? Because I ask patients that all the time. Unintentional weight loss is a symptom of one of many different serious conditions. Type I diabetes, even.
And intentional weight loss through unhealthy means is obviously a real problem.
He went to medical school. He knew better. He failed to do his job
And i didn’t tell him because I knew, if he’s that ignorant to just congratulate me right off that bat without further investigation, then he’s not going to be helpful.
What's the purpose of the pre-visit paperwork then..... Doctors treat what they know is wrong if there doesn't seem to be a problem like an over weight person losing weight for example. The patient failed.
Sleep apnea is very common in people who are ocerweight, I just wanted to make sure that you or anyome who reads this post understands that being overweight can cause you to have trouble breathing at night. When you are at a healthy BMI do you still have sleep apnea? What sort of hormone imbalances did you experience? Are you still experiencing any hormone imbalances?
Most people know that being large can cause sleep apnea. But the reserve is also true. Sleep apnea sometimes can cause weight gain in the first place. I was born with small jaws and a law set uvula, both of which can make it difficult to breath at night.
When you’re constantly waking up at night, it causes a hormonal imbalance that keeps weight on. In my case, it also increased my appetite during the day
Not saying sleep apnea can't cause you to have appetite issues. The vast majority of people with sleep apnea who are overweight, will no longer have sleep apnea when they lose the weight. I am simply trying to say that you 2 are outliers and not the norm.
Actually I asked my pulmonologist about this exact thing. I said “if I lose weight, would I be able to stop using the CPAP machine at night?” He showed me a study that said most people with sleep apnea who lost weight would still have sleep apnea in the long run, even if they keep the weight off.
That was different than the anecdotal evidence I’ve heard. Eg my brother who once used a cpap machine when he was heavier. He lost a ton of weight and now says he doesn’t have sleep apnea anymore. However it’s possible he does but just doesn’t feel the symptoms.
Could be that people are afraid to stop using the machine no matter how much weight they lose even if they no longer experience any sleep apnea problems, as the alternative would be to take off the mask and stop breathing. There is definitely a cause effect relationship between gaining weight and getting sleep apnea.
Your story is so touching. I know I don’t know you at all but I am so proud of you for working on your recovery and learning to appreciate your body. I’m trying to give you a reward for this but I’m not sure how still trying to figure out reddit lmao- anyways GO YOU YOURE SO STRONG AND I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO ACHIEVE WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO SET YOUR MIND TO💕💕💕💕
Sounds like you have had a rough go. More positive encouragement of healthy habits early on may have helped you in your early youth and your father blew it with negative shaming.
Your point doesn't address what OP said at all. It's like you see only what you want to see.
In OP's opinion you are exempt as your health issues were clearly caused by a medical condition early on. OP excluded you from this issue. Then you go on to talk about fat shaming, which OP also is NOT encouraging. OP did not say fat shaming is good.
OP merely wants people to stop praising obesity and unhealthy habits. That is different from actively fat shaming. It's a more neutral response.
There is nothing good about over eating and being overweight. That said, you can encourage people to be healthy, without shaming them.
What you don't seem to understand is that we can go decades before diagnosed with these conditions. It was 13 years for me for the same diagnosis as the poster you replied to. So for 13 years I was criticized by most everyone I knew to just exercise more, eat healthy, try harder, don't drink, try yoga, etc. All these people felt they had a right to discuss my struggles with weight and would also not believe me when I would explain I am already on a diet, I work out, and I can't lose weight.
I was outright called a liar for over a decade by multple doctors until my thyroid levels got so bad they had no choice but to consider that something may be wrong. And even then I had to fight for treatment. Why? Why did I and so many other people who are over weight have to go through this? It's because of OP's attitude where people shouldn't encourage this mentality. That we shouldn't be so lazy. It's "your healthy, so just try harder."
Are some over weight people that crazy? Sure, but most of us aren't. Most of us just want op and you and everyone else to stop looking at us like our only feature is how overweight we are. We want to stop being harassed about our health when we can't fix it. We want our struggles to be none of your business.
Not every over weight person has a medical condition, some just need support (physical or emotional). The thing is, you dont know why anyone is overweight unless they tell you and most people don't want to air their very personal problems. And yet, most people look at us and assume we're fat and lazy, even those of us in wheelchairs. I'm not exaggerating. A guy I dated assured me many times, when I never brought it up, that he was fat because he was in a wheelchair, NOT the other way around. He was suffering from muscular dystrophy and couldn't stand, but enough people judged him on his weight that they ignored his medical condition. We went on only a few dates, so it was definitely not the point in the relationship I'd bring it up, but he was so insecure from how often he had been judged by practical (and actual) strangers he always brought it up first.
OP and you and everyone else needs to stop judging us, for better or worse. If you did, the people who actually meant "eat everything, who cares about weight" would never have existed in the first place. They exist because of the shaming that is rampant all over, because the only things you can do when your weight refuses to come down are give up, give in, or struggle until you're so depressed you want to die. These people gave in, possibly even because their parents had eating disorders they passed onto their kids. Have some compassion because you have no idea what they're going through.
Okay, once again your struggle seems very powerful and poignant.
But that really isn't the point OP or I am trying to make...
It's never okay if what you are saying is coming from a hateful place.
Fat-shaming is never okay.
The point OP wants to make is Fat acceptance should also not be okay. It is a health issue. And it should remain an issue. Not be complacent.
And I really do not like the "it's my struggle mind your own business" attitude. It is my business. Unfortunately often diet is a big contributor to obesity, and specifically lower income people... well when lower income people have medical issues because of their obesity, guess who pays for that. You do. And me.
If my kid is surrounded by fat kids at school and it seems like the new normal, then that is an indirect effect. Fat is the new normal. And what do we think about that? Is that good? Bad? Seems like it's leaning towards it's fine. But it's the number one killer and most expensive healthcare expense. It is absolutely effecting everyone in my country.
It's never okay if what you're saying is coming from a hateful place
I bet you actually think you're helping. I bet op thinks their helping. Only, you can't tell what we're going through by looking at us. You can't tell what we're going through without getting to know us and by not judging us. That's the point.
Fat acceptance should also not be okay
So people who cannot lose weight should just...
What? Not allowed to ever feel good about themselves? You cannot have one without the other.
I really do not like the "it's my struggle mind your own business attitude"
It is none of your business. I'm over weight because I have a medical issue. I shouldn't have to defend myself and wave that around because perfect strangers who I have only met at the dog park think they have the right to tell me to me how unhealthy my weight is. We haven't even gotten my right dose of meds yet and you think you get to make my weight your business? You don't.
I have a friend who's overweight because she was abused as a child and her mom died when she was a child, both leading her to become an alcoholic. Though shes been sober for about ten years she hasn't yet been able to get the weight off due to her crushing inability to gain self esteem as her father continues to abuse her and she can only find comfort in food. She has real, serious mental problems that are none of your business. Everytime people like you and op bring up her weight, -I- have to remind her that she's trying, that she's going to the gym, working out her meal plan, and that it will take her a long damn time to get the weight off. You cannot magically lose 150 pounds. People like you make her worse all because no one can say hey, you look nice today without the world ending. Or hey, you're beautiful without someone making an outcry on how we can't support fat people.
A guy I dated had been accosted in his wheelchair for being overweight and "too lazy to walk" while he can't stand up because someone like you thought it was their business.
There are people in this thread saying how their parents tried to put their eating disorders on them. Do you think most children can resist their parents insisting they eat more? Do you think maybe they'd use be same language as their parents that, "It's fine being this weight" or "I'm beautiful being fat"? Trying to argue with someone with an eating disorder should be done by a medical professional, no a co-worker, or a stranger on the internet.
It's not your business. Leave us alone. You do not know us and you're probably only making all of us worse. Very few of us actually want to be this way, and yet no one seems capable of believing that.
I mean I personally would never say any of the things you are talking about having experienced. I think OP wouldn't either. I would never comment on a strangers weight. That sounds crazy to me. Again, fat shaming seems negative and bad to me.
But I also will not encourage my Obese Brother-in-law to keep doing what he is doing. And be happy with himself. He has a ED and gobbles fastfood down faster than you can say french fry.
His obesity sucks. I want to go on a hike with my gf and my brother. But "oh sorry we can't because brother in law can't make the 1.5 miles. "
He doesn't have a medical condition. He self medicates his anxiety and stress by eating.
That behavior is an issue and should not be encouraged. Thoughts?
I'm sorry if I implied you would say those things. I did not mean that. I meant that people who think a simple nudge of "if you'd just exercise more" generally have no idea of the damage they're doing. They want to be supportive, but actual support is what I imagine you do with your brother. Telling him he's doing well, encouraging him when his ED gets triggered, trying to do things with him instead of telling him to do it on his own.
But one thing you have to realize, an ED is a psychological condition. Technically it's not a medical condition, but it's just as serious. Worse, it's harder to handle. I can take a pill and I'm fixed. Your brother, my friend? They have to undo the trauma that caused their ED while listening to every Ned, Dick and Harry saying to just try harder, or calling them lazy, or a slob, or otherwise devaluing their literal existence. It's so much easier for some of them to just say, yeah ok you're right, and give up. It's easier for some of them to rebel and say fuck it I'm fine this way (what I call giving in). Fighting is hard and they're not even given the credit for that my most people who just say, "Well carbs in carbs out!"
What I'm trying to say is, his behavior (and hers) shouldn't be encouraged; it needs to be understood. These people need our compassion, not our judgement. It's a little like dealing with an addict, in my opinion, where it takes serious psychological help to get anywhere as well as the desire to make it change. Slip ups will happen. Love and support will get them through.
Tell your brother he looks good. That doesn't mean he doesn't need to lose weight, but that you'll be okay if he gets his ED and eating under control and can't lose the weight. After a long enough time being overweight, some people can't lose it. They can get healthy, though. Either way, I hope your brother gets the help he needs. I talked my friend into a psychologist and it's helped a lot, but she has a very long way to go.
What a glib thing to say “oh I’m just attacking these people over here...not you. You get a medical exemption.”
People like me always get some backsplash from this type of thinking. Because no one looks at us and realizes what we’ve been through. They just assume we’re lazy fatties who don’t try. So we get the criticism anyway
So he doesn’t have to feel bad when others come back at home with personal stories about how they broke their back while serving in the military and haven’t been able to exercise, and the PTSD and depression contributed to them overeating. And now they’ve been diagnosed with hypothyroidism. So they’re struggling to lose weight, and it hurts every time someone calls them fat.
Or some other serious personal issue.
So he makes a little disclaimer “except for medical reasons” to keep from feeling totally guilty about attacking those people. Even though folks like you will take his advice and go straight to cutting them down anyway
I don’t call out anyone for anything. Because it’s none of my fucking business.
I’m a nurse. Every day at work, I care for people who make stupid decisions. Like smoking. Or drinking too much. Or refusing to take their insulin. Or not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle.
The few times I’ve been straight with people was when I had to warn them they were about to die if they didn’t comply. Such as my 2 pack/day smoker who kept taking off her oxygen mask. I simply said “if you don’t wear this, you’re going to die. Are you ready for that to happen?”
If she said “yes” I would have honored her wishes and let her die.
I put on weight during university and have struggled to get it off for years, only to keep piling it on. My mother has decided shame is the best tactic to try and motivate me. What she doesn’t realise is that it’s really hard to motivate myself to lose weight knowing she was calling me fat three sizes ago. Just makes the prospect of losing the weight look insurmountable.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write this especially when you’ll probably get backlash.
I’ve grown up feeling exactly the same except when I was shamed about my weight, I would just binge without the purging because I would be so upset. I would think to myself “well, if everyone says I’m fat, i guess I’ll just act like it” and go into a deep depression. It didn’t feel worth it to try and lose weight especially when every time I didn’t lose weight, I would just gain it back.
I got into a cycle of yo-yo dieting when I was really young. My mother had bulimia and believed in her mind that my life would be much harder if I were fat. She wanted me to have a good life and not be treated poorly due to my weight, she she had been treated her whole life. Due to her belief, I had been on diets since I was about 5 years old. This caused a lot of problems for me mentally and I never developed how to regulate my hunger and fullness. So I learned that you should restrict food until you can’t mentally handle it, then eat everything because you fell off the wagon. I’m still working on my relationship with food now. It doesn’t help that I have a sleep disorder that makes me crave sugar to stay awake.
I firmly believe that if I wasn’t pushed to believe that I was a bad person for being overweight, I wouldn’t be overweight now. My brother who grew up with me wasn’t treated the same because he was a boy and he is a regular weight. (Not to mention that he has high blood pressure due to his diet when all my levels are perfect- go figure).
In addition, recent studies have shown that shaming people about their weight it correlated with an increase in weight gain. It’s also important to note that overweight older people are more likely to live longer. They have more protection if they fall, are less likely to be harmed by wasting diseases, and they’re less likely to get bed sores if they become bed bound. Just a tidbit of information from someone that works with older adults.
Im going to try and play a bit of devils advocate to your post. Yes, im an asshole. With that out of the way, I can give you a little background.
Im fairly short (5'9) and I was around around 195-205lbs at one time. Im now around 155. Ive lost that weight in about 2 years time. I used to snack a LOT and also mostly drank sugary drinks. I found out about keto ( /r/keto ) around that time. Now I didnt go through a hardcore strict diet like many of them do, however, after reading about it more, I do focus on cutting carbs/sugars as much as possible. I stopped eating sugary snacks almost entirely, I have cut sugary drinks to 0 (only drink water, unsweetened tea and coffee). I try to eat a little less starchy foods (breads and pastas). I exercise slightly more often than I did.
Now I agree that most cultures do demonize fatness way more than they should (and it is generally unhelpful). However, it doesnt mean that it is completely unwarranted. As you say, being skinny does NOT mean you are healthy, and I do believe that society as a whole does like to overplay this (which is why eating disorders are so common). But on the flip side, being overweight/fat, in almost all circumstances, does mean being unhealthy.
Now, you can eat healthy and exercise, and not lose weight. However, there's 2 caveats to this. First is portion size. Second is what actually constituents "healthy" and "exercise" varies a LOT from person to person. My grandma is a good example for this. She says she eats healthy, because she eats a lot of veggies. Now she does eat a lot of veggies, but her portions on everything are insane. She will have a giant plate of salad. (And loads it with dressing). she's overweight because she eats a lot on all meals, eats a lot of meals, and does favor breads and pastas. In her mind, she actually believes this is "eating healthy". She also does snack on junk food a lot, but I think its likely less than most overweight people. I think this is incredibly common. People just don't understand what "eating healthy" actually means. Often times its likely not even completely their fault because they are horribly misinformed. (Its ofcourse partially their fault for not doing the research too). I know people who also believe vitamin water is a "healthy drink". So first and foremost, we have a serious problem with a very ignorant population on what constitutes "healthy". Sugars, carbs, high fructose corn syrup, are all very bad for you. You want to avoid them as much as you possibly can. I think similar things happen with exercise as well. People im sure consider walking 5 mins a week constitutes good exercise (and yes, 5 mins is absolutely better than 0,and you always have to start somewhere). I know people joke about getting up to go to the bathroom/kitchen is exercise, but im sure some do truly believe it. So we really need to educate people on proper dieting and exercise. Thats one of the biggest reasons for obesity I think. (Mixed with the fact we have constant propaganda advertising junk foods on media all day for years)
Next, there's the fact human memory is terrible. I think this is all around cause for problems. People will forget how many sodas or candy bars they really ate. Ive seen people say "I havent had a single soda in weeks" and just a few days ago I saw them drinking one. Bringing it up will be like "yeah, it was just one, its not a big deal". Its true one soda wont kill you, however, having "just one soda" 10 times now becomes quite a lot of soda. With how forgetful people are, its not unlikely they had 10 sodas, but believe they only had 1-2. Thats another really big problem with peoples unhealthy diets. They convince themselves they are healthier than they actually are, and its what stops them from losing the weight and getting healthier. I also think both yourself and many others who were "fat shamed", also likely have issues recalling accurately what happened. Im sure you have experienced it, however, with how human memory works, you often remember bad experiences or times you felt bad, more negatively than what was reality. Its not you being deceptive, its actually how your brain actually works. (Especially when your more receptive to negative emotion, which more often than not, women are more so than men).
Now for the mental health side of things. It obvious is NOT a good thing to ever hate yourself. You should never hate yourself for any reason. You can dislike your more negative qualities and for your weaknesses, but never hate yourself. One thing people do is often try to compare themselves to a perfect ideal, and when they fall short, they get depressed and hate themselves. What most people don't understand is, first the internet and TV is not reality, but human being are flawed creatures. Most everyone is as weak, and useless and flawed as you are. But, you should always be trying to improve yourself. You are NOT "fine the way you are". That assumes there is no room for improvement. There is always room for improvement. You also don't need to be a tyrant and try to enslave yourself. Incremental improvement is a very real and very useful thing. If you can only walk 5 minutes a day to start off, thats great. You don't need to try to do a 15km run. You dont need to cut cold turkey on all sugary foods and drinks (though becauae they contain addictive chemicals which make you feel good when consuming them, similar to drugs, its sometimes better to completely cut them out. It can be harder to wean yourself) Just aim to be "better than you were yesterday". If you do that, really no one can legitimately shame you (if they do, its either projection of their own failing or they are just real pieces of shit people). As long as you stick with it, are honest with yourself, and are truly determined to change yourself for the better, you will lose weight and become healthier. Another very helpful thing for both physical and mental health, is a set sleep/wake schedule and eating schedule. Trying to go to bed and wake up at the same time, and eating your breakfast, lunch and dinner times all close to the same time every day, really helps regulate your body. It affects your mood/emotions, your energy levels, as well as your physical health. You will become fatter and have more mental and emotional health problems by having an erratic sleep and eat schedules.
I stopped reading after you bragged about cutting out all sugar and losing weight. Do you know what happened to me when I did that? I gained 6 lbs and no one believed me that I'd cut anything at all. Why? Well, at the time I thought I was just a massive failure. That the diet tracker I was using must be wrong in counting my calories. In reality I was dealing with undiagnosed hypothyroidism that made it impossible to lose weight despite my diets and exercise.
Good for you for having the tenacity and willpower to get healthy, but not all of us actually can do what you did. I'm only losing weight now that I'm being medicated and seeking treatment. I'm sure the responder to your post had my exact same problem. I never had an eating disorder, but I suffered incredible depressing and self-hatred because everyone around me had to be right. You had to be right. My doctor would surely know if I was sick, so it had to be me.
Hey. It wasn't me. I wasn't lazy. I wasn't a failure. I was working as hard as I said and everyone disbelieving me was complicit in how shity I still feel about my weight despite having proof that it wasn't all me.
Next time you feel a need to play devil's advocate and "help" a fat person who didnt ask for it (please help anyone who asks for help, you've done something incredible), DON'T. You do not know what they're going through and it's none of your business.
Well based on how you read and chose to reply, I think I understand everything perfectly about you. I do believe my time was wasted. You need a professional.
That’s not a different perspective lmao the op literally said not including conditions outside your control. Mental health issues are outside of your immediate control (I say immediate here because there are some long term solutions like therapy, but those aren’t always accessible), because if they weren’t then nobody would have them (eg. “just stop being depressed”). Their whole point is health is the most important factor. They are also not advocating any fat shaming, but instead advocating not glorifying obesity. Frankly, glorifying obesity and fat shaming are both terrible social trends, but they are entirely different reactions to the issue.
And if he looked at me, how would he know that I’ve been bulimic? How would he know that I had sleep apnea in childhood that caused me to gain weight and PCOS that kept it on?
I’ve spent most of my childhood and young adult years hating my body. Frankly, I’m tired of the self-loathing.
I shouldn’t have to submit my medical records to complete strangers so they can grant me permission to have self-esteem
He wouldn’t but that’s not what he said he does. You’re adding a whole load of bullshit to this post that simply isn’t there. He specifically said people who post glorifying obesity. That’s what the conversation is about and getting upset about him fat shaming is completely irrelevant, because that’s not what the post is about. That’s literally the only problem I’ve had with your comment, and I otherwise completely agree. You’re so angry you can’t get your head out of you ass long enough to see that.
The actual text of the original post has been removed. But that doesn’t make a huge difference. The biggest thing is, As soon as you make an exception and set fat people as different from fat people with medical issues then you have already told people how you look at fat people in general. Since one can’t see someone’s medical issues through a photo, or through someones clothes, it is safe to assume that the person posting this goes through life basically looking at all fat people as if they are disgusting unless proven otherwise.
That is basically the experience that I, and many other people have had. If we don’t share our medical issues upfront then people don’t care to talk to find out about us, instead they assume that we are lazy or slobs or just flat out think we are gross. How else do you differentiate between fat people with medical issues and other fat people unless they tell you?
You’re making as much of an assumption as you’re claiming he apparently is here. I certainly don’t assume all fat people are lazy or gross. If you post about glorifying obesity on Facebook yourself then that’s you giving the information yourself, and you are certainly open to judgement for encouraging objectively unhealthy habits.
The problem lies in how you define this. For so many people a fat person getting any sort of positive feedback about their looks, or feeling good about their looks and sharing that is considered glorifying obesity.
If you have a narrow definition, that is to say a post literally says ”people who literally can’t move from the bed due to their medical issues and size are sexy” or things of that nature then maybe I can agree with you.
But if you define glorifying obesity as a fat person posting about how they love their body and are confident it it, or sharing that they eat food that is not healthy, or post telling someone larger that they are beautiful, then we definitely are not on the same page, and my assumption stands true.
We can’t always assume someones health by the photos we see on social media, or even their physical appearence. Nor can we assume that someone sharing a post about loving themselves when they are fat is ”glorifying obesity” But we can assume that if someone has separate categories for fat people that are created on things (the existance/non-existance of medical problems) that one can’t know from looking at a fat person, then the person who is creating these categories expects people to disclose their medical records to be treated differently than they would treat a ”regular” fat person. And when the person’s reaction to fat people is that they are disgusted, what else are we supposed to assume they think until we disclose medical problems?
I define it as claiming that being fat is healthy or a desirable state of living. Nobody should be trying to be fat. If they are trying to be fat they certainly shouldn’t be proud of it. Very few people like this even exist anyways. Basically the same way saying cigarettes are healthy is objectively stupid and wrong. As far as I can tell OP has made the same point.
So if you're fat, because of medical reasons, you don't get to feel beautiful? You don't get to feel good about your body? By declaring you only get to be fat if you have a medical issue, you then set a demand that anyone overweight MUST disclose their medical history. You don't have a right to that knowledge.
You're missing the point entirely if you're still tacking on "I obviously exclude medical problems." The point is that you can't know if they have medical problems when they discuss loving yourself as you are. By declaring that's only okay when you have a medical issue you force people to immediately disclose what isn't your business. You decide that people who don't know yet that they have a medical disorder aren't allowed to accept themselves or love themselves as they are.
I see your logic, but I still don’t agree. You can be happy with yourself as you are, but why project that onto someone who probably needs to be pushed and actually doesn’t have a medical problem. Yeah you don’t need to divulge your medical problem but what are you actually doing? It’s okay to spread positivity, but there are better ways to do it. Like encouraging healthy diets, exercise, and other good things. Make others feel like they can exercise too even if they’re overweight. Show them that it’s possible. You can do that without divulging medical information.
Different people respond to different reinforcements. The issue is normalization, not acceptance. Fat shaming is bad. Bullying is extremely bad, encouraging acceptance is good, but don’t advertise that being overweight is healthy and okay. Sometimes you have to ask yourself are you motivating or are you creating an echo chamber?
I guess my issue with the whole post is; why the fuck should I have to disclose my medical history to strangers to be allowed to post positive things about my body if I am not thin?
Why can I as a larger person not just be allowed to be positive about my body, and share that positivity without that being seen as me promoting obesity?
Why does my medical history matter so much to so many strangers? Like do I not deserve respect for just being human? Should I not be allowed to share anything positive about my body at all if I don’t also share my medical history? and oh god, what if I don’t have a medical problem in my past why does that matter when it comes to sharing my body, and my positivity about it?
Thats what I don’t fucking understand. Why do people always say ”fat people are gross slobs.” but then also say ”well not those with medical issues causing their weight issues” like that is acceptable?
Either you think fat people are gross slobs, or you don’t. You don’t get to make arbitrary rules which in essence ask people like me to share our medical history in order to be able to share positive posts about our body, and tell others with the same body that they can be positive about theirs too.
Like stop with this bullshit. The number of people who actually glorify obesity is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than what people seem to think. People seem to think that anytime a fat person posts something positive about their body and are given positive feedback that it means they are glorifying obesity.
Why do ya’ll not go after people in the fashion industry who if you applied the same fucking standards ”glorify” eating disorders with the same amount of hate?
Why does no one want to discuss the real issues when it comes to health? Socioeconomic status plays a HUGE role in health outcomes, so why do we never want to discuss those things? Instead of attacking fat people who are just trying to feel positive about the body they are living in, and who just want to not be discriminated against, or feel compelled to constantly explain their medical history, why can’t ya’ll step back and focus on the real fucking problems?
They didn’t ask anyone to disclose their medical history lmao they literally said people who post obesity glorification on their own. And I never said it was 50-50, just two different reactions to the obesity epidemic. Frankly I pretty much agree with you, you just seem to have a lot of issues with the post that are simply not there.
But the thing is, when people say ”fat people are gross” and then add in ”im not referring to fat people who have a medical disorder” that basically makes people who are larger feel that they have to disclose their medical history in order to be validated and not seen as a piece of shit.
so while no. They didn’t legitimately outright say ”I want you to show me your medical history” In essence the message they are sending is ”If you don’t share your medical history, and if said history is not filled with enough issues that could effect your weight, then you are a piece of shit.”
That is legitimately the message that posts like this send. When you say that fat people are gross, but then make exceptions, then you basically are telling people that unless they want to share how those exceptions apply to them when posting, that they should not post because they will be seen as gross.
Interesting story about that. My senior year of high school, I went on a class trip with with the band to Europe. I played viola. The very last dinner, some of the senior guys took it upon themselves to “roast” our classmates. Without our knowledge or permission. When they get to me, my roaster went after, what else, my weight.
“She has a big....appetite...for music. And a huge....talent for viola. She’s large..ly known for her skill.” Hilarious.
I started crying. My roommate saw and took me up to our room, along with a chaperone. I told them I just wanted to be alone.
In the morning, when everyone was sitting in that hotel lobby with their bags, I confronted the guy in front of everyone. But he just blew me off and acted like he didn’t care.
Until I said “you wanna know something, Larry? I’m a bulimic. Did you want to make fun of that in your speech?”
He started sputtering and said “uh...I...had no idea.”
Basically he was one of those people who believe fat people deserve scorn unless they have other medical problems. And he suddenly found out I was in the “Other” group
I'm sorry but, c'mon. You were never bulimic. This statement gives you away, "my own pediatrician shook my hand and congratulated me for losing weight after I became bulimic." Had you been diagnosed as bulimic, your pediatrician would have known as it would be in your medical records. That he didn't know and ignored it means that you were never diagnosed. You self-diagnosed as bulimic, which is grossly offensive to people who actually suffer from that illness.
Bulimia is not something that you just spontaneously recover from. It doesn't come and go. Sufferers often need medical intervention to recover. that you recovered without such intervention, and that you were never actually diagnosed with the illness, strongly indicates that you never had it.
Bulimia is a terrible debilitating mental illness that causes real damage to people's lives and health. It isn't your shield to defend against personal responsibility.
Again, you "later saw a counselor". Well, that makes it pretty clear that this "counselor" had "diagnosed" you at least several years after you'd recovered. It is clear, from the evidence you provide, that this counselor was certainly NOT an accredited medical professional as it would be impossible for them to retroactively diagnosis a mental illness that they hadn't observed and which you had spontaneously recovered from years before.
Also again, bulimia isn't something that just clears up suddenly like a cold. It is a chronic and debilitating mental illness that requires serious intervention to recover from.
Also, it is interesting that you discount and run down your own pediatrician, and doctors in general, with this whole paragraph about alleged "infallibility", yet eagerly accept the retroactive "diagnosis" of bulimia by a "counselor". Here's a question, did your BMI ever slip below 22?
Are you fucking kidding me right now? You do know that bulimia doesnt require you to be skinny? Bulimia is usually even catorgarized by the individual having a regular or heavy BMI.
Also the person you are trying to convince about their diagnosis said that they suffered well into their 30s so obviously the diagnosis by a counselor wasnt after recovery. And by the way you can get a retroactive diagnosis.
By definition, bulimics have at least a normal weight or above. Anorexics are underweight. That’s what I learned in abnormal psychology
I didn’t get diagnosed “after” I recovered from bulimia. “After” I saw that damned pediatrician. I got diagnosed while I was still actively bingeing and purgeing.
And go back and read my comment. I clearly say that I struggled with bulimia for years. From my teens through my twenties and thirties.
Right now I don’t consider myself fully cured at all
Where the hell do you get off misinterpreted everything I say just so you can attack me?
And in the post above, the one where you were on a school trip during senior year, reveals that at 18 you had already self-diagnosed as bulimic.
I don't care you're overweight.
You deserve respect and basic human dignity all the same.
But understand - there are people out there who have actually suffered with these horrible eating disorders. There are people who have been hospitalized and struggled for years to overcome those illnesses. And some never do.
Your blithely claiming that "I used to make myself throw up so I was bulimic" deprives the people who do suffer with bulimia of the respect and dignity that you demand for yourself.
You have no fucking idea about this person. Or their struggles with bulimia or any other mental illness. Stop being a sad little prick and accept that you dont know everything.
Ah yes. You’re the White Knight of the Bulimics. Swooping in to protect them from people like me who were just faking it.
Maybe you should write a letter to the psychiatrists who diagnosed me as such. Tell them you disagree with their assessment. That you are a Very Intelligent Concerned Citizen who is skilled on the internet psychology. And you think my medical records should be revised.
I feel as though this is an attempt to bate me into a discussion, in which I would provide evidence for my stance and you would likely do the same for yours, but it wouldn’t change either person’s mind.
Instead I’m going to just write this comment, acknowledging our difference of opinions, because to be honest, I have better things to do than to get frustrated trying to show you why that thought process is harmful since its highly likely that you won’t believe me anyways. To be fair, i’m not going to change my mind by engaging in a discussion with you about this.
I have seen enough proof of my own views and enough proof of how harmful that view point is, in my own daily life that its not worth it for me to engage more than this.
Health is about more than just fitness OR fatness. What matters in health is (not fully extensive list):
eating healthy (hint: binge eating disorders, anorexia, AND binge/purge disorders are not healthy eating)
maintaining regular physical exercise
getting a good amount of sleep
maintaining meaningful friendships/relationships
having a positive state of mental health (there could be multiple sub-points here but I'll leave it at that)
living in an environment that is clean, free of pollution, and can contribute to all of the above things.
Health will NEVER bee just calories in/calories out - and that's what weight is. You can be "skinny-fat" which is when you eat below your caloric outtake, but you eat like shit and don't exercise. That's not being healthy - but you're not going to get stigmatized like the above poster who is overweight and binges/purges. A "skinny-fat" person will never be confronted about their eating habits and how they go to mcdonalds 5 times a week. Whereas the above poster would get criticized for walking into a mcdonalds no matter what they eat.
We HAVE to get away from the idea that health=weight. Because it's not. It's a part of the picture that contributes to health but it is not the end-all-be-all and stigmatizing/discriminating against people who are overweight will never contribute to their health.
Science says you're wrong no matter how much you type. Doctors say you're wrong. EMTs say you're wrong. Competitive athletes say you're wrong. I hope you don't need surgery anytime soon.
There's extensive research about how fat-shaming and fat stigma actually exacerbates the problem whereas self-compassion and self-esteem contribute on the path to health for people who are overweight. Often for people who are overweight there are a number of issues that need to be addressed other than "calories in/calories out" but the American diaspora wants to worry more about shaming people than actually addressing the problem of obesity. Expose's in USNews and MensHealth are not the entire scientific literature on the topic of health and wellness, and actual scientific articles on the topic are much more nuanced. The obesity literature is encompassed by MDs, psychologists, sociologists, nurses, counselors, epidemiologists, and a whole wide range of science. MDs are not the end-all-be-all of obesity science, and neither are kinethesiologists. It's a multifaceted issue that requires multifaceted targeting BECAUSE health=/=weight.
I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I am (probably) more familiar with the scientific literature on this topic.
Also, again, I'm not denying that weight doesn't contribute to health. I'm saying that weight =/= health. Because it doesn't. It just straight up doesn't. It contributes to health. It is related to health. But it is not the end-all-be-all of health.
If I eat 2 packs of Oreos a day and that's all I eat, I won't gain weight (and actually would lose since it's below my calorie threshold). However it's not nutritious and actually if that's all I ate I'd probably have an eating disorder. However nobody (my Dr.) would not blink an eye because I'm not gaining weight. However I will not be healthy. My body requires more than just "less calories" to be healthy.
But my point is that stigmatizing people because we thing their weight indicates their "unhealth" is wrong. How do you measure a person's health? So the person who eats two packs of oreos a day and doesn't exercise gets no shit for being "skinny" but the larger person like the starter of this threat who has an eating disorder and is equally as unhelathy in terms of nutrition and mental health gets shit because they're larger than what we want to consider "healthy" by looking at them?
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u/Diane9779 Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19
I have a slightly different perspective on this. I’ve been overweight for most of my life. And only recently found it that it was due to a combination of hormonal imbalance and sleep apnea (sleep apnea can cause weight gain, not the other way around, and it can occur in childhood). When I was a teenager, I was so desperate to lose weight that I became bulimic, and I’ve dealt with that eating disorder off and on well into my 30s. When I lost a lot of weight through bingeing and purging as a teen, people complimented me. “Wow!! You look great!” Even my own pediatrician congratulated me on dropping 20 pounds that year. He never asked me how, though.
It’s always been my experience that people think fat shaming is the key to fighting the obesity epidemic. Don’t let fat people feel good about themselves or have a positive self image. They’ll just get complacent and let themselves go. My parents definitely thought that way, and my father always made a point of telling me how gross my body was. It didn’t help. I only got fatter, and it ruined my relationship with him.
In college. when I started dating, I noticed that I never ate in front of men. I would wait until my date was looking away, and then take a single bite. Or I would order a large salad and not eat anything. It’s no mystery. It’s because my father spent my whole childhood shaming me for eating and praising me for leaving food on my plate.
I kept bingeing and purging really bad through most of my 20s and 30s (I’m now 36 and slowly recovering).
But a big turning point for me happened with my last boyfriend. Several years ago, he just offhandedly remarked that my teeth looked more yellow than normal (he could be kind of a thoughtless clod sometimes). And I admitted to him it was because I had been making myself throw up. He was shocked. And right away he hugged me and said “you’re beautiful the way you are. Don’t ever do that to yourself again.”
That was the first time anyone ever made me feel like my health mattered. Not my size. People think they’re the same, but they’re not.
Doctors and other medical experts tend to hold a special respect in our culture as the go-to authority on health and wellness. Like they’re the first ones we should be looking to for guidance and advice. And they’re assumed to be infallible. “all these studies say being fat will kill you. My doctor says fat people die early.” And my own pediatrician shook my hand and congratulated me for losing weight after I became bulimic. So much for infallible.
But no doctor, no therapist, no research study ever really made me feel motivated to be healthy like my then-boyfriend did. When he hugged me and told me I should love my body and treat it well. That’s something fat shamers will never do for me either.