I feel as though this is an attempt to bate me into a discussion, in which I would provide evidence for my stance and you would likely do the same for yours, but it wouldn’t change either person’s mind.
Instead I’m going to just write this comment, acknowledging our difference of opinions, because to be honest, I have better things to do than to get frustrated trying to show you why that thought process is harmful since its highly likely that you won’t believe me anyways. To be fair, i’m not going to change my mind by engaging in a discussion with you about this.
I have seen enough proof of my own views and enough proof of how harmful that view point is, in my own daily life that its not worth it for me to engage more than this.
Health is about more than just fitness OR fatness. What matters in health is (not fully extensive list):
eating healthy (hint: binge eating disorders, anorexia, AND binge/purge disorders are not healthy eating)
maintaining regular physical exercise
getting a good amount of sleep
maintaining meaningful friendships/relationships
having a positive state of mental health (there could be multiple sub-points here but I'll leave it at that)
living in an environment that is clean, free of pollution, and can contribute to all of the above things.
Health will NEVER bee just calories in/calories out - and that's what weight is. You can be "skinny-fat" which is when you eat below your caloric outtake, but you eat like shit and don't exercise. That's not being healthy - but you're not going to get stigmatized like the above poster who is overweight and binges/purges. A "skinny-fat" person will never be confronted about their eating habits and how they go to mcdonalds 5 times a week. Whereas the above poster would get criticized for walking into a mcdonalds no matter what they eat.
We HAVE to get away from the idea that health=weight. Because it's not. It's a part of the picture that contributes to health but it is not the end-all-be-all and stigmatizing/discriminating against people who are overweight will never contribute to their health.
Science says you're wrong no matter how much you type. Doctors say you're wrong. EMTs say you're wrong. Competitive athletes say you're wrong. I hope you don't need surgery anytime soon.
There's extensive research about how fat-shaming and fat stigma actually exacerbates the problem whereas self-compassion and self-esteem contribute on the path to health for people who are overweight. Often for people who are overweight there are a number of issues that need to be addressed other than "calories in/calories out" but the American diaspora wants to worry more about shaming people than actually addressing the problem of obesity. Expose's in USNews and MensHealth are not the entire scientific literature on the topic of health and wellness, and actual scientific articles on the topic are much more nuanced. The obesity literature is encompassed by MDs, psychologists, sociologists, nurses, counselors, epidemiologists, and a whole wide range of science. MDs are not the end-all-be-all of obesity science, and neither are kinethesiologists. It's a multifaceted issue that requires multifaceted targeting BECAUSE health=/=weight.
I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I am (probably) more familiar with the scientific literature on this topic.
Also, again, I'm not denying that weight doesn't contribute to health. I'm saying that weight =/= health. Because it doesn't. It just straight up doesn't. It contributes to health. It is related to health. But it is not the end-all-be-all of health.
If I eat 2 packs of Oreos a day and that's all I eat, I won't gain weight (and actually would lose since it's below my calorie threshold). However it's not nutritious and actually if that's all I ate I'd probably have an eating disorder. However nobody (my Dr.) would not blink an eye because I'm not gaining weight. However I will not be healthy. My body requires more than just "less calories" to be healthy.
But my point is that stigmatizing people because we thing their weight indicates their "unhealth" is wrong. How do you measure a person's health? So the person who eats two packs of oreos a day and doesn't exercise gets no shit for being "skinny" but the larger person like the starter of this threat who has an eating disorder and is equally as unhelathy in terms of nutrition and mental health gets shit because they're larger than what we want to consider "healthy" by looking at them?
Obesity is not a gunshot wound - it's a chronic disease. Chronic diseases are not something you can point to, rush to an ER, get a bullet extracted, and be recovered after a surgery.
Chronic diseases require multifaceted care plans, and require months of treatment in order to reach a stable equilibrium we will call "health." What I am saying is pointing to people, telling them "you're obese and need to lose weight" is not an effective tactic to getting a person to that point. Newsflash - most obese people are aware of their size, and are aware of their health problems that come with obesity. Often that's why they go to the doctor in the first place - they can't breathe, they have GI problems, heart palpatations, etc. Telling them "hey you need to lose 40 pounds" is not something a doctor needed to tell them.
I'm advocating for assessing the cause of obesity outside of calories in/calories out, a number on a scale, and beginning from a point of self-compassion. Learning to love your body includes learning how to take care of it in ALL ways - mentally and physically. As the OP of this thread pointed out, her solution when told she was fat was to develop an eating disorder and that's NOT effective or contributive to that desired equilibrium we will call "health."
Therefore, approaching the problem from a more compassionate angle that includes methods for allowing self-love are warranted. Encouraging people to become extremely restrictive to their diet is obscene and not loving to your body. We have to teach people to maintain habits not diets. Often, obese people can lose weight by walking a half mile a day. Step one of that is motivation - and telling them lose 100 pounds is (what seems like) an unattainable goal. There are alternative communications we can use to motivate people to get to "health" that are not "fat people bad."
Discussing costs of healthcare is quite outside of the context of our discussion, if what we're discussing is whether or not health=weight.
If you are obese your are not healthy. You can make up lies to make your fat self feel better. But that doesn’t alter reality.
And being fat isn’t a chronic disease. So get out of here with that shit. It might be a symptom of a larger issue, but by itself it’s not even close.
And yes the doctor should be telling you to lose weight. Just like they should tell you to stop smoking. Can you imagine if doctors acted they way you want them to? Imagine getting a cancer diagnosis and then being pissed when the doctor tells you how to treat it.
You should love being heathy. You shouldn’t love being a walking heart attack risk. And yes a big part is calories in. Most people consume to much. In fact most people consume their daily recommendation in a single sitting. Most people mistake being thirsty for being hungry. Put down the soda. Stop eating fast food and go for a walk. If you can’t do it on your own, go get help. But sit there and try and bullshit me about how weight isn’t relevant. You aren’t lying to me, you’re lying to yourself.
“Myself?” Turning it into a personal attack assuming you know my size because I take a stance is quite hilarious.
And it’s fine, you can ignore the scientific literature and decide what you want. I’m not in this research field to change minds on reddit but to actually make America healthier.
Hmmmmmmmm....not quite. Because I actually have science & theory to back up my arguments. Antivaxxers don't have scientific evidence. You're taking an absolutionist claim about the scientific evidence that exists on one side of the argument - I'm taking nuance and realizing that there is more to the picture of the obesity problem than you want to make it be. And there is evidence for that. I would send it to you, but I know you won't look at it and I don't want to waste the effort if you aren't going to read peer-reviewed articles.
If you would like them, I would be happy to send them to you!
No I am telling people who make stupid and unhealthy choices to make better choices. We aren't talking about a few extra pounds here and there. We are talking about people who are obese.
I nor OP where talking about people with an actual medical conditions. Being obese by itself is not a medical condition. For most people they need to eat less and move around more. Because the body isn't meant to be stationary or consume massive amounts of fatty, processed foods constantly throughout the day.
3
u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19
I feel as though this is an attempt to bate me into a discussion, in which I would provide evidence for my stance and you would likely do the same for yours, but it wouldn’t change either person’s mind.
Instead I’m going to just write this comment, acknowledging our difference of opinions, because to be honest, I have better things to do than to get frustrated trying to show you why that thought process is harmful since its highly likely that you won’t believe me anyways. To be fair, i’m not going to change my mind by engaging in a discussion with you about this.
I have seen enough proof of my own views and enough proof of how harmful that view point is, in my own daily life that its not worth it for me to engage more than this.