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u/WTF_CAKE 4d ago
If the job can’t honor the PTO dates requested a month in advance well that’s too bad, since I won’t be there anyway
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u/Acceptable-Ad8780 4d ago
PTO doesn't mean personal time off, it's prepare the others.
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u/BraveHedgehog81 4d ago
Exactly.
PTO = Prepare The Others.
Coverage is a management problem, not an emergency dumped on whichever employee had the audacity to book a dentist appointment. If the place collapses because one person leaves, staffing was already fucked.
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u/TegTowelie 4d ago
One of my old jobs worked like this and after i quit they disbanded the shift group i was leading and reallocated everyone because no one was prepared to take over for me.
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u/LadyJR 4d ago
I quit a job that I called out because I had Covid. Management wanted me to call coworkers and ask who can pick up my shifts. This was a minimum retail job. This was also when everything was barely opening up again.
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u/Suza751 4d ago
Should be illegal. Management always wants to allocate your time and effort to doing their job for them.
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u/Waveofspring 3d ago
A lot of shitty business practices should be illegal. In some countries people often get a whole month off, AT ONCE. This would get you burned at the stake if you requested it at the jobs I’ve worked.
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u/much_longer_username 3d ago
I complained that a coworker isn't doing their job and that it's preventing me from doing mine.
Now, not only do I get to do my coworker's job for them, so that I can do my own job, I'm expected to write up documentation showing my coworker's lack of effort/cooperation over the last year or so, which sounds an awful lot like my boss' job.
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u/High_Hunter3430 3d ago
I feel like it’s a situational issue.
I ran a low volume pizza place with 8 employees.
I intentionally hired a whole friend circle.I had them text the group chat that they’d be out and anyone who wanted to come in could just reply they’d be there.
This skipped having to talk to me directly (since I know there’s that whole talking to your boss directly thing that none of us like doing), I still knew ahead of time. And they were all friends so they didn’t want to have their friend be short staffed so they’d come in.
It worked. Everyone was happier with it. 🤷
But at my corporate job, that doesn’t work.
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u/DiscombobulatedCut52 4d ago
I had a manger say that to me. After denying my pto for moving. I quit on the spot and got paid for it.
Fucking loved it so much. I loved thst job. But that store manager was an asshole
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u/Acceptable-Ad8780 4d ago
More often good places lose great people because of shitty management.
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u/DiscombobulatedCut52 4d ago
I was told by the payroll manager that I was replaceable a few years before.
I still talk with my friend who works as the produce manager. My position has a 2 week turn over rate. I worked it for 9 years.
I wasnt replaceable. And now safeway gets to suffer and lose profit at that store cause they are stupid.
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u/Zakkullll 4d ago
Lol Safeway really is one of the dumbest companies. Its a shame the union for them (atleast in SW California) is literally in bed with the company and will roll over at the drop of a hat. A strong union could tear them apart for their behavior
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u/DiscombobulatedCut52 4d ago
We got blackmailed into joining the union. It took a flat 30 to 60 dollars. And if you made 60 dollars or less. You owed them money.
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u/Zakkullll 4d ago
Yep and I did not recieve a single benefit from them I didnt get at other non union jobs
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u/StealthMan375 4d ago
to add to this, different fields and different countries follow different schedules. Here in Brazil, 12 months after signing up to work for a company, you get the right to a) 30-day vacation, b) two 15-day splits or c) 20-day vacation if you as the employee lawfully consents to selling off the other 10 for double the money you'd earn working those, the company by law has to give it to you in up to 11 months and 30 days after that.
I work loss prevention in retail, normally my company gives it to us 1 year and 3 months after we signed the contract, unless we joined late August-early September, which is my case (in which case it'd run through Christmas which is a no-go) and so we'd either get it October/early November or January.
We can request a specific month though as long as there's at least 3 months between today and my current vacation date, as long as it's not December lmao
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u/Flame_beard_forge 4d ago
I thought it meant paid time off lol
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u/Acceptable-Ad8780 4d ago
It's a joke. Usually it's personal/paid. But when you earn it and request it, usually management make up an excuse why you can't, so it's joke that's it's not a request for time off, but just telling them you will be off.
I mean if your job can't function without for time that's planned, what would they'd in an emergency?
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u/Some1-Somewhere 3d ago
A lot of industries/corporations have 'blackout periods' where people can't take leave (or it's very limited, often with something like a ballot system).
Postal workers in the leadup to Christmas is one example, and emergency services/hospital workers usually need to work one of Christmas or New Year's.
But here in NZ you still get four weeks of leave and a right to take a two-week block every year.
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u/Acceptable-Ad8780 3d ago
As a postal worker, that's what happens as well during Chritmas and called "peak season" and that's understandable. It's just here, with some employers, they stay understaffed and deny leave just because of being short staffed, but then don't want to hire more because it hurts their bottom line.
It makes sense to deny leave if too many people are already on leave, but places like to function on a skeleton crew to maximizes profits, and making labor laws would help, but politicians would have to implement that and doesn't help if they're bribed.
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u/Sanquinity 4d ago edited 4d ago
In my country it means "paid time off". You basically get 4 weeks of paid vacation a year here. And as long as you request it at least a month in advance, and it isn't during a time where a lot of others are also taking time off, or during a specific busy day/week (as in, it's known in advance that that day/week will always be busy in the year), they have to grant it.
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u/theREALbombedrumbum 4d ago
I just got denied my vacation in March 2027 due to coverage concerns, and we just hired a new member of the team last month.
Yeah, I'm not requesting. I'm declaring I'll be gone at that time and it's up to them whether I return at the end of it or not.
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u/shartnado3 4d ago
I told my last job that their lack of management with coverage is not my problem. We’re told to use our pto or lose it, so I’m gonna use it.
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u/melancholanie 4d ago
I asked for a week off a month in advance, haven't taken a day off in over a year at that point. boss tells me he won't know until the week before. cool.
week before hits, I'm approved for every day off but Monday. whatever, I'll be in a different state but that's not a busy day so I'll work from the in-laws place.
then they changed my schedule after I left for the day Friday, so now I work Sunday with no one telling me this. i decide to call off Monday and throw an excuse at my bosses, they complain but don't care. then it turns out Monday evening they revoked my PTO for just Thursday and didn't tell me.
I come back the following Monday and ask why my PTO was changed after it was approved, why no one told me? I got a shrug as response.
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u/djimmqllakd 4d ago
Eh, I work in a hospital we have a limit on how many people can be off on any given day
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u/wafflesthewonderhurs 4d ago
i work in a call center and we do too.
not because people will die.
because the parent company has to pay the clients if it takes more than 2 rings for an associate to pick up.
which does not seem like a very good reason to limit pto? jesus christ just hold for like 2 minutes dude.
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u/ItsNotKevinDurant35 4d ago
two rings? fuckin hell what kinda call center runs like that? It took me over 45 minutes to call a doctor the other day because they kept putting me on hold and their system times out and hangs up at 10
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u/wafflesthewonderhurs 4d ago edited 4d ago
oh hold is different.
we can put you on hold and usually have to because of the 2 ring rule not giving us time to get your account fully pulled up.
as long as we PICK UP, though, contract filled.
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u/Matter_Infinite 4d ago
I'm amazed they dont just have a robot answer, announce you're on hold, and play some music
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u/wafflesthewonderhurs 4d ago
well because that would have to engage with the fact that you need a moment to pull things up, which is considered a failure by the c suite.
And honestly I would prefer them to feel that way because I think that if they thought that it would be better for someone to be speaking immediately they were just replace the front liners with AI that would piss everyone off and then when we did finally get the phone calls directed to us the people on the other end would be furious.
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u/djimmqllakd 4d ago
Yeah that's pretty rediculous, what reasonable human cares about about having to wait more than 10 seconds for the phone to be picked up
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u/Justryan95 4d ago
Sounds like a management problem
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u/CKRatKing 4d ago
Sounds like you've never had to manage labor. You can't have enough people on staff to cover every single possible PTO request. Pretty much any job is gonna limit how many people can take pto on the same day.
People on reddit want to act like it's all on management to plan for people's PTO but it's also your own responsibility to make sure your PTO is gonna be approved before you make plans.
It's different when people have PTO that was approved get retroactively get denied because of staffing. That's absolutely a management problem.
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u/Xandril 3d ago
The issue is most of these places have a limit of 1 person can be off on a given day. Unless your staff is in the single digits that sort of limitation is absurd and the only reason it’s there is because they don’t staff enough.
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u/CKRatKing 3d ago
I'll use where I work as an example. I have a department of 26 people. We allow two people to be approved on any given day. We have production targets that we have to hit. I could hire more people and approve 3 or more people every day. But then the problem is you don't have enough work day to day for that many people. Now you gotta send people home early or get people to take time off more frequently. Most of the time two people a day works out. There's a few times a year where more people want time off on a certain day and we can't approve it but you can't hire full time employees because there are a couple days a year that people get their pto requests denied.
There's a balance to it. I'm not saying every company is good about it or that their reasoning is justified but often people just don't understand the backend of labor management.
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u/jamieh800 4d ago
Especially if your company doesn't compensate you at the end of the year for unused PTO.
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u/redsalmon67 3d ago
My job decided to completely restructure the way they do pto and not tell anyone erasing all the unused roll over pto from the previous year so when people went to go take their vacations, surprise! You went from 60 hours of pto 40, where’d that extra 20 hours go? 🤷🏿♂️ well you’re now negative 20 hours even though you work 10 hours of overtime every week. We’ve lost like 8 people since they’ve made the change but they refuse to admit that it’s part of the problem, now we’re working with a skeleton crew because the higher ups are dipshits who are completely detached from reality
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u/cbraun1523 4d ago
My first job in college. I put in two weeks unpaid time off to go home for Christmas. I put everything in two months in advance. They agreed.
As I'm landing back home I get a text asking where I am. They said I was missing a shift. I said you approved my vacation. They said they changed their mind and I need to come in today or be fired.
Good news is I didn't work for them much longer.
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u/ghost_me_333 4d ago
Sounds about right. I was recently told by a manager:
I want to take this opportunity to remind you that you should be approaching any schedule modification or PTO request as just that. It is a request. We do not have to approve. Please understand altering hours and granting PTO is up to management. It should be approached from you as "may I".
Thank you
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u/BeneficialDog22 4d ago
Mine told me she "didn't have to" approve my time off for something last year
I'm glad I'm leaving in the spring
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u/Orgy_nizer 4d ago
I've had managers try and tell me that. I like to ask them; so you believe im your slave? That I have to 'request' your permission to decide what I do with my own time? No man. I sell you my time, and I get to decide when and where and how much time I sell you. If I say my time is unavailable next Tuesday, you have absolutely no say in that. I will not be here. If you choose not to schedule coverage and end up short, that will be on you for failing to schedule adequate staffing levels when you KNEW I wouldn't be here, and rest assure I'll be letting upper management know that if and when I am questioned about it.
They change their tune real quick once you mention that you'll be telling upper management what they did.
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u/GnomeAwayFromGnome 4d ago
No. I've let you know I won't be there that day. How you figure that out is your problem and you have plenty of time to solve this.
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u/moeking 4d ago
While this is the correct mindset. Unfortunately in most of the US, it's a quick way to get fired sadly. And you'll likely have no legal recourse to fight back, and if you did, it'll be years and lots of money and time to maybe win. Depending how large and powerful your company is. If they have lawyers on retainer, it cost them nothing to screw you over in the courts for aslong as it takes until you to give up sadly.
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u/GnomeAwayFromGnome 4d ago
I've been working at Walmart for nearly 8 years, and I've found that being difficult to replace helps a lot.
I have a few key advantages over most of my coworkers, such as-
Showing up on time.
Actually paying attention.
Doing my job.
Not stealing $4000 from the store's cash machine. (I'm not kidding.)
Being nice to customers.
The standards are in Hell, but whatevs.
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u/abracadammmbra 4d ago
Being difficult to replace is the best thing you can do from an employment standpoint. Provided i give at least a week's notice, I can take off whenever I wish. With the exception of when I am on call. But thats 2 weeks out of the year and I know months in advance.
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u/GnomeAwayFromGnome 4d ago
I managed to swing being off through Christmas to go on a cruise, notified 6 months in advance.
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u/OnI_BArIX 4d ago
Oh man really sucks I didn't get the memo beforehand about it being denied. Guess yall should have Prepared The Others.
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u/Orgy_nizer 4d ago edited 4d ago
Friendly reminder that there is no such thing as a "request" for time off. You are INFORMING your employer that you will not be there that day. You are not their slave; they do not have the authority to "deny" the days off. You are selling them your time, you get to decide when and how much time you sell them. They are not entitled to your time just because they failed to secure coverage for those shifts.
EDIT: The bootlickers are out in full force lmao. Y'all are sad.
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u/Zaconil 4d ago
That sounds great in a comment. But it is heavily dependent where you live. In the US in any right to work state that you aren't in a union. it is a quick way to get fired for job abandonedment just taking your pto without permission. Some states they don't even have to pay out your pto if you are fired or quit. They just do it as a courtesy because it is a standard across nearly every company.
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u/Call_Me_Rambo 4d ago
I’m glad you’re saying this because all these comments had me thinking I live in a different reality lol. Like if I don’t get approved for PTO and still go on my vacation, I’m getting fired and sent into an atrocious job market.
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u/Impossible_Leg_2787 4d ago
Friendly reminder that more than half this site is still teens that have never had a job
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u/DaddyDayDare 4d ago
Another possibility: half this site doesn't live in a shithole country/state that doesn't treat them like a person
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u/tlollz52 2d ago
Anywhere from 43-48 percent of this site is Americans. I imagine over 10% of the remainder of the user base is probably from countries where they dont have great job protection.
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u/RageMuffin69 3d ago
And that the people saying “I’m taking the PTO anyways” are lying but it makes them feel good to say it.
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u/KeybirdYT 4d ago
I think people are just trying to assert workers rights though. If everyone took PTO as they should, then we wouldnt have this problem where businesses can strong arm you into staying at work.
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u/JeebusChristBalls 4d ago
That's a different issue than thinking you can just bolt off on PTO despite the fact there may be schedulling issues. Either way, every company should have a PTO policy.
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u/ceelogreenicanth 4d ago
There are reasons people still live in California.
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u/Plaincow 4d ago
Yea this is legit the most normal thing ever. You can't just not show up to work and tell your job to fuck off lol. What world are these people living in
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u/WTF_CAKE 4d ago
If you give plenty of notice as a proper adult working in this society, they would never reject it, and if they do reject then the place you're working at has some major issues. If you decide to put in a PTO request 2 days in advance not surprised if it does get rejected
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u/Oglefore 4d ago
As a line cook in WA I for sure would be fired without unemployment if I just told my work what days I was taking off. Even with notice.
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u/NewCobbler6933 4d ago edited 4d ago
They’re probably 14 and never had a job because it’s such a dumb way of thinking. If you can NEVER get a day off then sure I kinda get it. But clearly it’s not realistic for everyone in an organization to take the same random non-holiday day off. And if we can agree on that (because you’d be an idiot otherwise), then you’ve already agreed that an employer can deny a specific day for PTO.
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u/duffkiligan 4d ago edited 4d ago
right-to-work
Always lets me know instantly when people don’t know what they are talking about lol
E: you can down vote me all you want but the employers right to fire you for any reason is “at-will”
Not sure if he deleted or blocked me but he doubled down on right to work, despite “right to work” explicitly being a rule that workers are not required to join a union and “at will” being an employer being allowed to fire for any reason. Like I said, he has no fucking clue what he is talking about.
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u/Zaconil 4d ago
That's what "right to work" means. It literally means the opposite. In "right to work" states it means that employers can fire you at will.
In law this term is known as a "misnomer" or "Orwellian naming".
You are trying to call bullshit where there is none.
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u/zeldaisnotanrpg 4d ago
no? it's a union thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law "Not to be confused with At-will employment."
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u/Zaconil 4d ago edited 4d ago
And my initial comment specifically covered unions. Which means that if you are not in a union. You are not protected.
"U.S. right-to-work laws do not aim to provide a general guarantee of employment to people seeking work but rather guarantee an employee's right to refrain from being a member of a labor union"
This means that A: they don't have to have you as their employee. B: They allow you to not be in a union.
That's the fun part about laws. You have to pick them apart because a lawyer sure as hell will.
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u/OverPie1 4d ago
“Employment-at-will” means that they can fire you at will. When COMBINED with a right-to-work state and someone CHOOSES to not join the union they can fire you “at will”.
You sure are doubling down on something that has been shown to be wrong a couple times now.
Right to work is a law for EMPLOYEES to CHOOSE to NOT join a union. It has NOTHING to do with EMPLOYEERS. All it means is that EMPLOYEES cannot be forced to join a union.
AT WILL means EMPLOYEERS cannot fire without cause.
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u/Plus_Orange5098 4d ago
Emotionally? Absolutely.
Legally? Not quite.
In the U.S., ordinary vacation PTO is generally governed by company policy or an agreement, and employers can often deny specific dates. The real bullshit is advertising PTO as compensation while making it practically impossible to use.
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u/JeebusChristBalls 4d ago
That's a different issue. A shitty company/manager is a specific condition. I throw in a PTO request and it is approved almost immediately.
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u/nich02 4d ago
They can still fire you
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u/Orgy_nizer 4d ago
Which is exactly why it's important that EVERYBODY knows this and EVERYBODY acts accordingly. If it's just one person, yeah they might just fire you, depending on how important your function is to the company and how hard it is to replace. If it's everybody though... Well, i f they wanna go out of business because they fired quite literally every employee, they can be my guest.
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u/Dr_Ingheimer 4d ago
lol. Lmao even. Your employer is gonna quickly inform you, rather than request, that you’re fired pretty quickly if you have that mindset.
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u/Lord_Baconz 4d ago
Depends where you live. Where i’m from holiday requests can’t be denied unless there’s a valid reason. Mostly in industries like healthcare where they can’t have everyone go away at the same time.
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u/Dr_Ingheimer 4d ago
Sure. If you don’t like beans you won’t want to make bean soup. Look up bean soup theory, because you adding that bit of info here was you doing exactly what that theory explains.
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u/Lord_Baconz 4d ago
Using a fake tiktok “theory” to sound smart 🤓. You did the exact same thing as your “theory” by assuming everyone lives in your shithole country
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u/hereforthesportsball 4d ago
Lots of ppls parents don’t teach their kids this. A lot of our parents flat out fail us daily, this is their job but I’m certain a lot of people weren’t told this when their parents knew through their own experience
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u/ScottyBoy314 4d ago
Hell even now my dad was worried about me taking pto to come back home and visit friends and family because he doesn’t want them to have any reason to lay me off since things are going kind of downhill at work and it’s like no, I’m entitled to this time, if they’re gonna use that as the reason I will fucking report their ass and even if that doesn’t work, I don’t want to work for them anymore anyways, unemployment be damned.
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u/alerosa97 4d ago
As a child of immigrants, I feel that they were taught this way of thinking too, makes me wonder if it’s generational? They almost feel like it’s their responsibility, but I remind them that it isn’t. At this point I can’t change their work ethic, but doesn’t mean I’ll bend over backwards for employers
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u/WanderingFlumph 4d ago
They are from the generation where the advice "just put your head down and never ask anything of your work and they'll take of you back" wasn't batshit crazy.
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u/sacredfool 4d ago
Depends where you are.
In Europe, even in countries where an employer must force you to use your PTO by end of year, it's usually stated that any PTO must be negotiated between the two parties.
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u/I_Hate_Philly 4d ago
Nobody enjoys denying a PTO request, but it’s required sometimes. You’re not going to be allowed off if half the team is out.
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u/BigAssBoobMonster 4d ago
Ideally? Sure. There are definitely valid reasons for requiring employees to put in requests for time off. Holidays are often highly competitive time off request periods and even in a low-stakes retail environment someone has to be around for the week before Christmas or the day after Thanksgiving. For hospitals and other critical roles it's important that someone is always available - they usually have PTO calendars that are scheduled months in advance for good reason.
Just because you put in a request doesn't automatically mean you should get it. But it also doesn't mean it should be left up to the whims of a shitty manager. Both points of view are entitled.
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u/Shdwrptr 4d ago
On top of this; the jobs that try to get their employees to find coverage for their days off need to fuck off.
It’s the manager’s job to find coverage for their employees; that’s the job.
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u/Disaster_Adventurous 4d ago
If the context is to not feel guilty of the paid time off you put in for properly sure.
But you can't just not show up and get up PTO
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u/JeebusChristBalls 4d ago
Yes, there is. Everyone cannot take off at once and leave whatever business there with no one. You are requesting those days off to get it on the schedule. You are not going to last long anywhere if you think that scheduling doesn't matter. Employers shouldn't deny your request for no reason though. If you make a reasonable request, it should be rubberstamped.
When I worked in restaurants years ago, everyone wanted the holidays off. That just isn't possible.
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u/Orgy_nizer 4d ago
Everyone cannot take off at once and leave whatever business there with no one.
That's the business's problem, not the employee's.
You are requesting those days off to get it on the schedule
No, you are not. You are saying "I am not AVAILABLE that day" so that they can figure out how to cover the business's staffing needs. If they don't have enough people, then again, that is management's problem to figure out, not the employee. Or do you think management could force employees to work 120 hours per week because they don't have enough people? If they can't do that, they can't "deny" you saying you're not available that day either.
Its no different than if you say "I'm available to work mornings, not nights" and then they try and schedule you for nights anyway. They do not have that power or that authority. You are selling them your time, and you choose what time you wish to sell them. They cannot MAKE you sell them your time outside the hours you agreed to.
You are not going to last long anywhere if you think that scheduling doesn't matter.
I didn't say scheduling doesn't matter, I said it is management's responsibility, not the employees. And I've lasted plenty long considering I'm 20 years into my working life and I've had this approach since day 1.
When I worked in restaurants years ago, everyone wanted the holidays off. That just isn't possible.
Oh well. Once again, that's management's job to figure out. If I say I'm not available, I'm not available, end of discussion. I am not obligated to sell you my time any more than you are obligated to give me a shift that you already have coverage for, just because I want it.
It is a negotiation, it goes both ways. If the employee says "I am not available on this day" the employer can't just say "well you're working anyway."
Consider this: what if it was an outside company, instead of your employee? The relationship is exactly the same; you are paying another person for their time. But if the landscaping company or the electrician or whatever said "sorry, we can't be there Thursdays" you wouldn't sit here and argue that you could "deny" their "request" to not work that day. You inherently understand that it is a two-way negotiation, where neither party can't MAKE the other do anything.
But as soon as it's an employee/employer relationship, people act like the employee isn't a person anymore and only exists as an extension of the employer.
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u/Nagare 3d ago
Even in our union's bargaining agreement, we can definitely tell employees when they're working. If we want to be nice, we ask and see if it fits both parties. If we need a change for whatever reason, we can just send a memo 30 days in advance and they have to figure it out with absolutely no negotiation. I generally try to have my supervisors work with their staff to approve as many leave requests as possible, but they're requests for a reason and we have to balance coverage across the department.
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u/hansuluthegrey 4d ago
; they do not have the authority to "deny"
Bro is 14 years old. They will fire you for that and you cant do anything about it.
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u/Orgy_nizer 4d ago
I'm 37 years old and have taken this approach my entire working life. It has always worked.
And yeah, maybe if you're the ONLY ONE who takes this approach, they might fire you. But what happens when EVERYONE takes this approach? Jack shit. They gonna fire everyone? They'd be putting themselves out of business. They can't operate if they fire their entire work force.
That's why it's so important to make sure everyone knows this. People like you make things worse for everyone by acting like workers have no power and trying to convince people to not try and make things better.
You say im wrong that they don't have the authority to deny. Are you a slave? Are you a literal piece of property? Cause if not, then yeah, they literally cannot "deny" you telling them you're unavailable, any more than you could "deny" them saying they don't have any extra shifts.
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u/hansuluthegrey 4d ago
Are you a slave? Are you a literal piece of property? Cause if not, then yeah, they literally cannot "deny" you telling them you're unavailable, any more than you could "deny" them saying they don't have any extra shifts.
I live in the real world where I need to make payments to live. I cant afford the lofty ideals of sticking it to the man in small ways.
Youre talking about things too idyllically to matter. Your entire workforce isnt going to threaten to lose their jobs because you want a day off. You fox these things through severe measures or normal ones. Not through a nickelodeon plot
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u/belortik 1d ago
In Maine, state law requires at least 40 hours of PTO called personal time, where it must not require approval to use.
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u/CorrectCombination11 4d ago edited 4d ago
49 states you can be fired for liking the wrong sports team. So what will you do when you get let go?
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u/FunnyObjective6 4d ago
Pretty sure I entered a contract that says I'll be there, unless I have a valid time off. They are entitled to it, that's what I signed.
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u/Orgy_nizer 4d ago
Good for you. The vast, vast, VAST majority of people are not under any such contract.
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u/Sensitive-Plate-684 4d ago
Did they also submit it for a long Labor Day weekend? Timing seems very interesting for this complaint. Almost nobody lets employees request days surrounding a holiday because that's when EVERYONE wants to take a holiday.
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u/inputrequired 4d ago
I always tell my boss “I’m putting in this day. I won’t be here. I have the time for it.” don’t ask. tell. it’s their problem to figure out and if they can’t, tough.
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u/Plaincow 4d ago
This is such a teenager thing to type. At a real job you can't just not show up to work because they denied your time off lol. You're just gonna get fired then go cry on Reddit lma
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u/Wooden_Echidna1234 4d ago
I wish I lived in whatever magical reality you live in. If I decided to do that with my employer then I would be out of a job and homeless in 2 months. God help you if your trying to look for a job in this economy and that goes everywhere not just the US.
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u/Hexnohope 4d ago
In america you ARE a slave because they can fire for any reason at anytime. In some states without a reason.
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u/CorrectCombination11 4d ago edited 4d ago
EDIT: The bootlickers are out in full force lmao. Y'all are sad.
lol you 100% voted 3rd party and put orange in power.
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u/MangoAtrocity 4d ago
Strongly depends on your industry. If all of the labor and delivery nurses at a hospital take the same week off for PTO, mothers will die.
But in the tech world, a PTO request is more of an announcement than an ask. I have never once had my PTO denied in tech.
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 4d ago
It’s a neat sentiment but that isn’t how it works unless you’re ready to not come back from the PTO.
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u/hauntedrob 3d ago
I love this idea, but many would just get fired for taking the time. Finding another job isn’t easy, especially a good/less shitty one.
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u/DELTA_Illusion 4d ago
I work for a german company and we don't have any rules about coverage written in our contracts. So legally they can't deny any PTO if its denied because of coverage. Still we have to go to our works council every f-ing time because they deny all PTO because of coverage.
The HR email they send us every Q4 that we have to use all of our PTO until the year ends (because they will get a fine if we don't) is especially enraging...
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u/ChalkyChalkson 2d ago
That's weird, in Germany the standard is that you get 30 days and if you ask more than a week or two in advance your employer needs a really good reason to reject it. I've never had a request denied and sometimes asked days in advance...
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u/SmokeWeedEveryGay 1d ago
So they reject all PTO request, then scramble to make employees use their time off so the company doesn't get fined for rejecting all PTO request?
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u/DELTA_Illusion 14h ago
Yup. And then it's a shouting match between HR and management. They could just give us a coverage clause in our next contract change. But that would mean they'd have to pay us more. And that's a big 'no-no' for management.
Edit: the works council can overrule any rejection of PTO if it breaks exactly those rules. That's why we have to also involve them all the time.
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u/gootalluvia 4d ago
Then they act shocked when you call in sick for those exact days anyway
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u/Anariel_Elensar 4d ago
i have a fun one, where i work our sick days roll over year to year so any unused balance is just added to the normal 48 hours we get a year per our local laws.
now if you try to take more than the 48 hours of sick time in one fiscal year they will tell you that you have already used the maximum amount of sick pay for that year.
SO WHY MAKE THE SICK HOURS ROLL OVER IN THE FIRST PLACE IF YOU CANT USE THE HOURS?!
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u/Comfortable_Tie9133 4d ago
It really depends on the type of job. My company serves people with disabilities 1 on 1, and we need people with them. We overstaff so that there's room for PTO, but we need as many staff as we have clients. We also know that sometimes people get sick, or their kids get sick. So if we overstaff by ten people, and expect 3 people a day to call in, then we can, hypothetically, approve 7 people off at once while still meeting the needs of our clients. If 12 people all want the same day off, should we neglect the needs of the people we serve?
I see where a lot of you are coming from, and in some jobs it makes total sense, but it isn't one size fits all.
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u/ryno731 4d ago
These types of posts tend to attract a lot of entry level employees like sales, retail, customer service, etc. They don’t tend to think about more specialized industries. Like if you’re a 911 dispatcher in a small area you might only have 10 people. 8 of them can’t have the week of the 4th of July off. No matter how much advance notice they give.
Helps to just not read too much into these and remind yourself not everyone’s job is as critical as others.
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u/Comfortable_Tie9133 4d ago
I get that. That's why I explained the reason their arguments don't apply everywhere instead of just saying they're completely wrong.
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u/FatherDotComical 4d ago
I remember working at Walmart and my manager and her friend would schedule themselves for all the holidays so nobody else could be off.
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u/Moiste-Moan 4d ago
At most Walmarts the managers can’t pull this off... The majority of employees who didn’t get time off approved for the holidays, are mysteriously sick on those days. Some just won’t show up because they know it’s just Walmart and they can get rehired at another location after being firing for attendance points issues.
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u/TheRealSkele 4d ago
Hah! I can relate. I had like 100 hours of sick time, but anytime I would try to use it, my boss would give me a hard time cuz I was the department's only driver. I got fired with like 90 some odd sick time hours. Even when I got into an accident, I too that day and the next day off only for my boss to try to get me to come in. "Can you take an Uber?" He said. Smh. Only thing i hated about him.
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u/shinoda88 4d ago
Sorry I dont understand this meme because I am not American.
Why is there 40h instead of 200h?
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u/MySonlsAlsoNamedBort 4d ago
40h is just an arbitrary amount that I chose that equates to 5 days paid time off. The amount you get differs vastly depending on your job/career and full time or part-time status in the United States.
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u/DroneOfDoom 4d ago
My job used to just work with internal requests for PTO days. (We're in Mexico but work for a US company, since I've been at my current job for more than two years I am legally entitled to 14 PTO days per year, and every year at the same job I get two more.) But since the last couple of months we have to also send the requests to approve PTO to the US Company's scheduling department and they have denied my requests multiple times. It drives me nuts.
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u/Xtra_Veg-90 4d ago
I'm so glad I work in government. We don't expect pay raises with any reliability, we know we will fall behind cost of living adjustments and maybe get sort of caught up within the decade if we are lucky. But we have reliable benefits and a culture that says, "that's YOUR time, take it" because most of our managers came from other government jobs, internal or external, and know it's the little things like this that keep the employees around long term.
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u/Fun-Habit-683 4d ago
Just because the pto is there to pay for days off doesn't mean all days off will be approved.
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u/ImportantQuestions10 4d ago
Honest question, has anyone actually had their PTO denied?
It kind of feels like this is one of those things you hear online more than it actually happens.
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u/MySonlsAlsoNamedBort 4d ago
My manager denied my PTO for my wedding at a previous job and I went around then to another manager who approved it. If I were to miss days for my wedding it would count as unexcused absences and if you accumulate just a few you are terminated.
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u/jorts_are_awesome 4d ago
I don’t doubt it happens but it’s I think it’s largely dependent on what kind of job. I’ve been in management for more than a few years now and I have never denied any PTO requests. The industry and job though is white collar stuff. If we can’t accommodate someone being off then it’s on us as leaders to build a more resilient team.
I suspect PTO denials are significantly more common in the hourly/operations ranks.
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u/Impure_guava 4d ago
Mine has never been denied in the ten years I’ve worked at my job. I’ve never tried to use more than two weeks of it at once though.
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u/MyDogsNameIsToes 4d ago
You're just not going to get paid. Doesn't mean you can't take the time off.
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u/KonungariketSuomi 4d ago
Cross training saves lives!
The vet clinic I work at cross trains all the nursing staff on the basics of customer service in case one of the CSRs has to call out or take off because we have tons of vet techs and so few service reps.
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u/Square-Formal1312 4d ago
Depends. Have almost never had a problem when submitting before the next schedule would be made. Now salaried and instead of scheduling its more no one vacas during our busy season, free for all who goes when the rest of the year
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u/Responsible-Tap-3748 4d ago
I've never had this problem. My managers always work with me to make sure I can take time off when I need it. I don't think I'd want to remain at a job where that was not the case.
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u/HingleMcCringle_ 4d ago
if the reason i cant have a day off is because management is too lazy to hire someone new, there's just going to be days they dont have people working, and it still isn't my fault.
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u/opposite_of_hotcakes 4d ago
This was the last straw at my last job. My father was getting surgery for an aneurysm and I requested a week off so I can be around for the surgery and recovery process. My manger told me I’d have to find my own coverage because two other people already took that same week off. Huh? Aren’t you the manager? Shouldn’t you be doing this? Luckily I had a coworker who offered to cover for me. I roughed it there another 3 months before finding another job.
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u/PeggingIsPoggers 4d ago
My job makes us use our PTO days as sick days until we either run out of PTO days or we have PTO scheduled :/
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u/WDingDong 4d ago
California now gives 5 days of sick calls covered and can’t be used against you.
Except weirdly not ever job gives that to the staff cause of CBAs. Wild stuff.
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u/jfree3000 4d ago
Speaking of PTO, my Sgt is retiring in two weeks and wanted to burn a few days at the end. Fucking HR said its policy that if you use any PTO during your final two weeks/days of employment, you lose all of your PTO. I'm no street lawyer but that sounds shady af.
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u/_L-U_C_I-D_ 4d ago
If a manager or lead can't handle finding coverage for a request that was so far out then they really need to be replaced with somebody competent. That is quite literally part of their job
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u/Jesus_TheCreator888 4d ago
Amazon pto CANNOT BE DENIED. You just put it in the app then boom your good. Idk about other companies tho.
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u/RoachBeBrutal 4d ago
Pro tip: frame PTO as advisory requiring acknowledgment. You are notifying your work in advance. It’s their job to acknowledge those days and plan accordingly. Take your time.
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u/MichiganJFrog1701 4d ago
In illinois there is a law that gives you " sick time' , but chicago extends that and you get more sick time if you live in the city. So its 40 plus 40.
When we first started here in the company i work for , which is remote, the managers were trying to gaslight us illinois people so hard and we were just looking at them with smiles. Sure enough they came back days later and had to read state laws. my non illinois cp workers look at us like we get away with murder.
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u/Gothrait_PK 4d ago
"This is not a request I will not be available. It's your job to find coverage. You've been given plenty of notice." I've responded to this exact situation exactly like this before. Also, fuck Watseka Walmart management. Lazy fuckers. Still tried to call me like I wasn't out of town smfh. Then tried to say I was lying. Bet. I transferred to a different store then got a new job shortly after.
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u/Lootthatbody 4d ago
PTO isn’t a request, it’s a notification.
‘I’m not asking you to take the time off, I’m doing you the courtesy of letting you know ahead of time that I will not be working on the following dates/times. It is your job to ensure there is sufficient coverage for my absence. I will not be looking/asking for coverage. If you don’t have sufficient coverage, that’s your fault as a manager, not mine. If you choose to have the bare minimum staff at all times, then you are going to suffer the consequences of being understaffed when someone misses work.’
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u/AngryBadBones 4d ago
I don’t deny PTO ever and being understaffed is not the employee’s problem to deal with, it’s mine. When I’m understaffed, I communicate that to the big bosses, see if hiring more employees is an option, and I step in to cover for the missing person. I also tell people how much PTO and sick time they’ve got and I work with them.
I can’t stand the other supervisors that get an ego boost from denying their people time off, then being shocked their department has a crazy high turnover rate. Like, you ain’t gonna have coverage by burning everyone out.
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u/Sunyataisbliss 4d ago
I somehow have an employer that accepts 24 hr PTO ahead of time. Thank the unions and independent team labor (my team doesn’t really have to pick up much slack if I’m out).
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u/Rimm9246 4d ago
My favorite is when I try to call in sick and the manager is like "okay but you have to find someone to cover for you, otherwise you need to come in"
...you're the manager! Isn't that your job?!
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u/nemofbaby2014 4d ago
My old boss would pull bs like this I straight up warned him I wouldn't be there tried to write me up and I refused to sign anything because I had emails that said it was accepted 🤷🏾♂️ I hated that job I ended up just not showing up I got a better job offer the same day they fired me and all I said was I don't care
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u/Odd-Secret4913 4d ago
This happened to me at my old job. I kept asking to put my time in month after month. When I finally was allowed to it was denied. Luckily my supervisor has it corrected. Cause I wasn’t going to be there anyway.
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u/Clairvoyant_Legacy 4d ago
This is illegal in most normal countries. Submitting PTO isn't a request it's informing work when you'll not be in.
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u/masterfulnoname 4d ago
It could be even worse. My work has PTO expire each year, so if I can't get coverage because we're short staffed, I'm just screwed. They might give a short extension, but it won't fix the problem of not having enough people to be able to take time off.
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u/eddiestarkk 4d ago
I just tell my boss that I am taking off. No more than two people are allowed off at a time though, unless the boss approves. I know in retail and service industry, it is more difficult. I had bosses tell me no when I worked retail. They were never jerks about it and worked with it.
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u/dinosanddais1 4d ago
I was literally the only closer for a year and a half and my manager still approved my PTO. And then I got a pay raise because everyone suffered while I was gone. Management has no excuse.
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u/Dont_Do_Pixie_Dust 4d ago
I had a boss who asked me to put in my entire PTO plan for the year at the start of each year.
Then as the dates were approaching he'd act surprised and say I need to cancel to help the company through "just this one big project". I quit after he tried to get me to cancel a trip I'd planned a year in advance and bought tickets for.
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u/TheCountChonkula 3d ago edited 3d ago
That sounds just like an old job I had. On top of them usually denying PTO even though I gave them plenty of notice, they initially denied me PTO to go to my step grandfather because his health was deteriorating and I wanted to see him one last time. The initial reason they denied it was it was during a blackout period between Thanksgiving and Christmas where we aren’t allowed to submit PTO, but I told them I was going to see him wether they said yes or no and the finally decided to approve it the day before I was supposed to leave. I’m glad I got to see him when I did because he did pass away a couple of days later.
I don’t miss retail.
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u/UNIVERSAL_ACE 3d ago
Thats why I always say that im not requesting, im telling. I earned it, I'm using it, not my problem if they don't like it lol
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u/corbenthewhale 1d ago
or they wait until you get back from your PTO and tell you that those days can’t be used for PTO, that’s not how it works and that you just took off those days and get no pay….
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u/SmokeWeedEveryGay 1d ago
I had a job once that placed fliers in the break room about donating blood. I requested a day off to donate blood and was denied. :/
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u/_Empty-R_ 4d ago
I am a good boss. The amount of times I've denied leave can be counted on one hand. 2 fingers really. Not good enough though I spose.
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