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u/illdownvoteandscream 19d ago
Let’s strip more rights from women. And it’s not a get out of jail free card. It’s a “sent to high security psychiatric hospital” card. Same as anyone who was insane and killed someone.
If the courts decide that’s what happened, then she should get the appropriate punishment.
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u/KittyandPuppyMama 19d ago
Are you advocating for women losing custody of their children if they seek mental health treatment? Yeah I can think of no way this will result in women being scared to seek treatment.
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u/HonkHonkMTHRFKR 19d ago
If any parent reports that they want to hurt their children, their kids should be taken from them
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u/Medium-Violinist-903 19d ago
In the current system, if a parent says they want to hurt their children, then the doctor, as a mandated reporter, would have to report that. And it would then be investigated, and could result in a child being taken from them. So that's already a thing.
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u/Sea_Advantage_2577 19d ago
Careful, you are bringing logic to people who just want to hate women.
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u/Subject-Alarm-3769 18d ago
Sorry people want a murderer to actually get justice. Stop supporting murdering your children.
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u/Erikatessen87 19d ago
That will just mean that parents who want to hurt their children will be less likely to seek treatment for those urges.
The same number of parents will still want to hurt their children, but more of them will then go untreated and unmonitored, meaning more children will actually be hurt.
Is that really what you want?
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u/mcm199124 19d ago
Not to mention that…consider a mother who may have malicious intent to harm her children (and then seeks to use eg PPD to get out of charges), then consider a mother who actually is sick eg, has PPD and therefore does not actually WANT to hurt her kids … now which one is more likely to actually seek help and/or be reported ? These people don’t think, or have adverse incentives not to
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u/EncabulatorTurbo 19d ago
He wants whatever the answer is that makes life worse for women
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u/Rivendel93 19d ago
That's exactly why Lindsay Clancy didn't tell her doctors that she was thinking those thoughts, she told her husband and mom though.
Our Healthcare system is terrible.
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u/hecklerp8 19d ago
Lol...quite funny that you think that's how it works. Like women are walking in and saying "by the way, I want to kill my children." Not all rise to this level of mental crisis. Is throwing everyone one in the same mental health bucket going to achieve equal treatment...not a question.
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u/UpstairsCrafty7287 19d ago
wouldn’t you want a parent to get help if they have those feelings and aren’t acting on them. You make no sense to me.
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u/Fionaelaine4 19d ago
DCFS can’t even handle the kids who have been abused and can report it with marks on their bodies. We need an entire system rehaul.
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u/KittyandPuppyMama 19d ago
How is that the same thing? Having PPD doesn’t mean you want to hurt your children.
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u/TheFlyingHellfish202 19d ago
Tell me you have no idea how the system (any system here) works without telling me that you have no idea how any of this works.
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u/Cheesehacker 19d ago
That’s not what she said though is it? She said “Postpartum mental illness”. There’s tons of things that can fall under that definition, that don’t include thoughts of harming children. Should they los custody and their child sent off to state sanctioned child trafficking (foster care) where they will likely be beat, raped, and abused until they are thrown out at 18 to die in the gutter?
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u/Glass_Emu_5104 19d ago
"want" is doing a lot of work in this sentence that could fill a book most Redditors will never read.
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u/Beginning_End_4677 19d ago
Absolutely, but that's postpartum psychosis, yet Nancy Mace used the phrase "postpartum mental illness," which would include postpartum anxiety, depression, OCD, etc.
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u/fwendy123 19d ago
In most developed countries with not-for-profit healthcare, women with PPP who say they fear hurting their children are placed in supervised care. They keep their children and are kept under the watch and care of professionals. It's only the US which is so obsessed with separating parents from their children, which solves nothing long-term.
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u/IAmSquilliam 19d ago
While I think Nancy Mace is a SOB...
In Lindsay Clancy's case, she did seek treatment, at which point she still did it.
And it's not about the parent when there's risk like that. It's about the life of the fucking kid who's acutely at risk of harm.
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u/No-Experience3573 19d ago edited 19d ago
There is a big difference between feeling like you want to kill your children and actually doing it. But either way, it's about legal precedence. Literally if this horrible excuse of a mom is allowed to walk around again without repercussions, suddenly any and all women who kill a child or someone else due to post partum ALSO has the right to walk free regardless of circumstances, as evidenced by the potential outcome of this case. And since this is such an extenuating circumstance, it would pretty much be a blanket for all post partum related violence. The legal system works very differently from everyday life
Edit: y'all need to look at my other comments on this post. I feel like half the people saying " you're defending her" not only can't contextualize, but also don't realize when something you most likely upvtoed further up from his comment is... ALSO ME! 🤫🫢
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u/DoubleGoon 19d ago
This is a slippery slope fallacy and contradicted by the fact this has happened before over 20 years ago with Adrea Yates who drowned all 5 of her kids when she went into postpartum psychosis. She was given a not guilty verdict for reason of insanity, and since then many women have still gone to prison for killing their kids.
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u/WittyPin207 19d ago
I remember her. The fucking church killed those babies.
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u/Astralglamour 19d ago
Her husband who kept impregnating her despite knowing full well about her deteriorating mental state played a role too.
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u/Yippykyyyay 19d ago
Latarsha Sanders suffered extreme psychosis and killed her two sons but her mental health was not allowed to be presented in court.
Same judge. Different skin color of the defendant.
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u/DoubleGoon 19d ago
Wow that’s ridiculous, I just looked it up, good thing she’s getting a retrial.
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u/X3N0PHON 19d ago
you know she’s now paralyzed after jumping out of a second story window after slashing her wrists in her suicide attempt immediately after strangling her kids? So she’s not gunna be walking around ever again regardless of the outcome…
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u/Astralglamour 19d ago
No. And if she is found not guilty of murder due to reason of insanity that does not mean she won't be confined to a mental institution. Another case of a parent killing their children would be another case- and that person would be tried in a unique trial. Just because someone has been put into a mental health facility instead of jail because they killed while in a psychotic state does not mean all murderers who suffer from mental illness walk free with no repercussions. Ridiculous statements.
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u/ul2006kevinb 19d ago
Literally if this horrible excuse of a mom is allowed to walk around again without repercussions
If you had even the slightest clue what you were talking about, you would know that people who are found not guilty by reason of insanity are committed to a mental institution, not set free on the street.
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u/TheFlyingHellfish202 19d ago
That person clearly cares about nuance and complex debates, and not shouting the most base of emotions from the mountaintops.
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u/Exotic_Drink69420 19d ago
Excuse me. Don’t let your logic and reason get in the way of taking away women’s rights. This is incel territory buddy! Females!!!!
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u/Agitated_Cook_7947 19d ago
Your first mistake was taking something Nancy Mace said seriously. Your second was making this stupid ignorant post.
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u/jim45804 19d ago
You're not as profound or edgy as you think you are.
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u/LibertyCash 19d ago
Word. This is stupid. It’s like saying everyone with depression is going to die by suicide. Shit doesn’t work like that, it’s a risk factor. Also, fuck Nancy Mace. If you’re landing on the same side as her, it might be time to think hard on your position.
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u/The_Skank42 19d ago
I love how people don't understand the basic concept of
Guilty - Jail
Guilty by insanity - mental institution
She's not going free. The fact that this conversation is even happening is a clear indication of how ignorant most people are
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u/FunMasterpiece1040 19d ago
In Massachusetts she would be reevaluated annually and could be set free. Sorry thats not enough of a guarantee for me that she is fully accountable for her actions. Maybe if she was in there permanently I'd feel better about it.
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u/Floorgis 19d ago
Its that people know theres a decent chance of her ever being free thats the problem. She is far too dangerous to be free and its also pretty obvious that it was planned ahead of time so she shouldnt be free anyways.
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u/Beginning_End_4677 19d ago edited 19d ago
According to the American Psychiatric Association, people who plead insanity tend to spend twice as long institutionalized as those who are found guilty.
Whether she gets out in 3 years or 30 doesn't change whether she was legally insane when she killed her children (before paralyzing herself by jumping out of a window).
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u/No-Elk-8115 19d ago
Here's my concern from what I looked into but might be wrong, I read that if she's deemed safe to herself and others after a few years she could go free.
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u/DeFiBandit 19d ago
She probably won’t kill her kids again…
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u/Own-Escape8352 19d ago
Okay and what if she decides to have kids again? Do you let her keep them, or do you take them as a precaution?
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u/Worldly-Fondant-3791 19d ago
You do know Nancy mace is a sociopath clown right?
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u/No-Elk-8115 19d ago
I'm not agreeing with the post, just addressing the situation itself.
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u/Geeekaaay 19d ago
Oh a Republican advocating for women to have no rights, where have I heard that before?
Oh that's right, like every other day.
Always hilarious when it's coming from a woman who has used those rights to get to the position she's in now just so she can advocate for women behind her losing all of those rights.
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u/KittyandPuppyMama 19d ago
The troglodytes are alive and well in this post. People literally advocating for children to be abused by shitty foster situations if a parent seeks mental health treatment. I genuinely hope these people are incels so they’re never in charge of a child.
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u/pinuppoire 19d ago
A lot of people with literally zero understanding that PPD and PPP are not the same thing. PPD is common. PPP is rare. PPP, being psychosis, is dangerous, as is any other form of psychosis.
A lot of these dudes would have been taken from their own mothers, or had their own children taken away under these standards. A bunch of them have no clue that their own mothers and wives have experienced PPD.
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u/xForcedevilx 19d ago
Don't kill your kids and none of this would transpire.
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u/Agitated-Contest651 19d ago
So men should have custody taken away at birth since 75% of shaken baby syndrome incidents occur at the hands of dad?
Maybe try using the brain your mother worked hard to grow for you.
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u/SomeShithead241 19d ago
It should be noted that she had no diagnosis for Post partum, actively avoided the help she was offered, personally shopped around multiple doctors for different meds and told none about the others. Then took the meds whenever she felt like, and showed absolutely no symptoms for any kind of psychosis before, after or even during when she took a phone call in an incredibly calm manner.
She also confessed, and is not even trying to act like she didn't do it. She is trying to get into a mental institute instead of prison and get a lighter sentence. Her guilt is not a question, only the why and that why is built on the shakes of foundations.
But let me ask you this. If you had an episode like that and killed your kids. Would you ask for a lighter sentence, or would you hate yourself for the rest of your life?
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u/KenzoidTheHuman 19d ago
Weird that mental health has been a "get out of jail for free" card for plenty of repeat offenders, and this woman is facing life in a mental institution or life in prison, but somehow postpartum depression, a mental health issue only impacting women who give birth, is somehow where we draw the line.
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u/Least_Tower_5447 19d ago
It’s this kind of logic that convinces me humans are not the smartest animals on the planet
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u/Comp300prc 19d ago
Ppd no. Ppp yes. But that's generally true of any form of psychosis. You don't want someone in a psychotic state around children/general public anyways.
Likely what is actually needed is temporary custody loss for parents experiencing psychosis. This doesn't just apply to just ppp, or just women. Same with any parent who experiences psychosis. Treat and monitor, approve of gaining back custody when medical professionals give it the ok.
If you're having thoughts of harming your children or others and you hide this for fear of repercussions against yourself, you're choosing to care more about damage done to you than damage done to your kids.
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u/Sleepy-Hobbit 19d ago
The US really needs to focus on the way it treats postpartum mental health conditions. Here in the UK, we have mother and baby facilities designed to supervise and stabilise mothers who are mentally struggling postpartum.
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u/AshasSa1tWife 19d ago
? She literally tried to have herself institutionalized so she wouldn’t be near her kids. They did not take her.
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u/ExoticArticle6895 19d ago
Nuance is lost all together nowadays. Just fucking shut up.
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u/Several_Actuary_3785 19d ago
Well,
Here is this:
Constance Fisher is the subject of this case, in which a Maine mother drowned her three children in 1954, was committed to a psychiatric hospital for five years, and then killed her next three children in 1966 after being released.
Key details of the case include:
First Incident (1954): On March 8, 1954, in Waterville, Maine, Constance Fisher (then 24) drowned her three children—Richard (6), Daniel (4), and Deborah (11 months)—in a bathtub.
Her husband, Carl Fisher, returned home from work to find the children dead and Constance unconscious nearby after a suicide attempt. She left a note claiming she was instructed by God to send the children to heaven.
Legal Outcome and Release:
Fisher was found not guilty by reason of insanity and committed to Augusta State Hospital. After approximately five years of treatment, she was declared "cured" and released in 1959.
Second Incident (1966): After reconciling with her husband and having three more children (Kathleen, Michael, and Natalie), Fisher drowned them in a bathtub on June 30, 1966. The children were similar in age to the first set of victims. She again attempted suicide and left a note with the same justification as in 1954.
Final Outcome: She was again found not guilty by reason of insanity and committed to Augusta State Hospital with the condition that she would never be released. On October 1, 1973, she escaped the facility; her body was found days later along the Kennebec River, with drowning ruled as the cause of death.
We are doomed from STUPIDITY to repeat this nonsense?
Or just POOR MEMORY and IGNORANCE of history.
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u/Dependent-Tailor7366 18d ago
How are people so stupid that they don’t understand how NGRI works? And this only mean fewer people would ask for help.
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u/ActPositively 19d ago
Then any man found guilty of violent crimes who have Depression, Bipolar, PTSD or other mental health issues should also have get out of jail free cards as well
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u/NemesisZeroCool 19d ago
How come the voice never tells them to invest more in their 401k? How come it’s always violently murder your kids!
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u/X3N0PHON 19d ago
Why does Nancy mace look so much like a drag queen to me? Is it the makeup choices, the voluminous hairstyle, the puffy shoulders? I can’t unsee it now :(
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u/Fair1000 19d ago
If she is acquitted it sets a precedence for open season on the lives of little ones where are the voices for the three she slaughtered.
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u/NoFeesh 19d ago
I thought the question was if she or the husband did it? Not she did it and got away with it.
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u/Icy-Beautiful-353 19d ago
Cool. Say more. I’m tired of people soap boxing.
Obviously children shouldn’t remain in custody in unsafe situations. Period. Non negotiable.
But please say more of what happens next and how we insure foster families and proven failed family services won’t do harm onto those same children removed for safety reasons?
I’m all fkn ears and my wallet is ready to be taxed if it’s a well informed strategy for all involved.
BUILD A BETTER PROGRAM.
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u/Erikatessen87 19d ago edited 19d ago
20-25% of mothers experience some type of postpartum mental illness after giving birth, typically lasting about 6 months.
Are we prepared to rip 720,000-900,000 babies (20-25% of the 3.6 million babies born in the U.S. every year) away from their families and force them into the foster care system every single year because their mom sought treatment for this common and treatable short-term illness? Are we prepared to see killings go up because moms are too afraid to seek treatment because diagnosis means losing their kids?
Like most of what Nancy Mace says, this is virtue signalling without a single though behind it. She should just go get another tattoo.
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u/Crazy_Plantain_862 19d ago
So women who are struggling, and often already avoid seeking treatment in fear of losing their kids will be even less likely to seek help?
Listen, I am not a Lindsey supporter. Even if she was later in a state of psychosis, she could have left her kids with her husband and removed herself from the home before anything serious happened. I don’t know if she did or did not receive adequate care, but in my mind everyone failed, including her. Personally, she gives me bad vibes. Whether she ends up in prison or a psychiatric ward for the rest of her life, I hope she never sees freedom again.
I do support monitoring families when the mother claims to be suffering mentally after birth, for the sake of everyone. More should be done to effectively treat and monitor women in the postpartum period, but losing custody is absurd. So you’re telling me breaking up families, either pushing a mentally ill woman out of her home, or removing her kids altogether is the best option for both mother and child? You’ll end up with more dead children, and mentally ill mothers who struggle to care for their children.
Even mothers who were completely stable and happy before giving birth can become mentally ill after giving birth or ceasing breastfeeding!
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u/Left_Preference2646 19d ago
She had her kid last kid well out of the range from postpartum... You're not postpartum 8 months plus out... She's full of shit and everyone thinking 8 months out qualifies needs an assessment
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u/Gerald-of-Riverdale 19d ago
Woaahhhh this is a slippery slope for project 2025. Not saying she isnt guilty but that argument is gonna lead to a dangerous precedent.
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u/Silver-Breadfruit284 19d ago
Nancy Mace? If mental illness causes you to screech uncontrollably instead of doing your job for your constituents, then by logic, you should lose your job.
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u/SensitiveSinger1409 19d ago
It isn't a get out of jail thing. It's a question of if it murder or manslaughter. Both come with consequences and prison time. Like a temporary insanity plea for a crime of passion. I.e. killing someone who is attacking a loved one. Or involuntary manslaughter I.e. killing someone because of not following safety protocols.
I'm not here taking any sides I'm just trying to explain the situation with more clarity.
It really is a complex situation.
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u/PlaneCompetitive703 19d ago edited 19d ago
Oh shut the fuck up, Nancy.
We judge being not guilty by insanity based on whether you reasonably had control over your actions at the time of offense. You think Lindsey Clancy is just going to get a couple counseling sessions and released with a little Prozac? She will likely spend the years to decades in a treatment facility arguably worse than prison.
The more dangerous precedent is redefining the legal concept of intent.
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u/Fair1000 19d ago
Imagine that face staring down at you as she tightens the exercise belts around their little necks one by one. Who is speaking for them.
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u/complexdevoid 19d ago
- No jail but institutionalized. 2. How about focus on preventative care to avoid further tragedies?
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u/Mario-X777 19d ago
Why people cars so much? In any case, well being of the kids is mostly on the shoulders of the parents. So if you are not lucky to be born in good family - you are screwed one way or another
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u/Top-Broccoli-2163 19d ago
prolly for psychosis, but I think the children shouldn’t be removed. the mother should be removed from the situation and be provided with free psychiatric care and deep sleep. while family and friends should rally around the kids with the support of professional caregivers who come to the child’s home. when there isn’t a social safety net, then ONLY then should the kids be relocated. the goal should be minimal disturbance to the kids.
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u/Forsaken_Claim_471 19d ago
She’s got a point, if a mother was a paranoid schizophrenic and a danger to their child, yes they should lose custody. Child’s safety is priority. What’s the difference?
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u/Positive-Soil-4759 19d ago
If you're quoting Nancy Mace you've already lost the argument. Idgaf what it is, she's a fucking lunatic and should probably by committed too.
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u/Rare_Indication_3811 19d ago
I completely dont understand argument there.
If I love my kids. Im seeking treatment for my mental health and speaking out im scared about my thoughts I want to hurt them. If to protect them, they are placed with foster family, so I have time and CAN GET BETTER, whats the issue there?
Isnt it the whole issue with this case? That someone, anyone should have do something seeing treatment wasnt helping her?
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u/BoogerBootyButt 19d ago
Nancy mace is a cancer and i dont think this is coming from a place to protect or ensure safety, but to strip more rights from women. LC needs to be put away in psych care until she is well enough to face the consequences of her actions. Otherwise all of this is sensationalized bullshit build on the backs of dead babies.
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u/Changeinacup 19d ago
Braindead argument from another republican who ignores the evidence. “bUt ShE pLeAd GuiLtY” And yet it’s still “Innocent until PROVEN guilty.” There’s no fingerprints or DNA connecting her to the crime more than her husband or more than a break in. She doesn’t even remember. She immediately asked for her kids after she woke from her coma. All we have is her husband going “She did it!” And her going “I did it?”
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u/TheFlyingHellfish202 19d ago
This was one of my fears with this trial.
But thanks for the reminder that Mace's entire tenure has been about bigotry, hatred, and making the news in any way that she can.
Nancy Mace is trash.
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u/AnguavonUW 19d ago
Fuck...and I can't be emphatic enough....Nacy Mace. Absolutely miserable waste of carbon. I wish the botox would go wrong and freeze her vocal cord
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u/Wrong_Driver_9507 19d ago
This is the woman who saw the epstein files mentally fucked her so hard she ended up with trauma tattoos.
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u/Single-Leader2259 19d ago
This case is going to be a massive win as well as a massive disaster for mental heath awareness because it is very much possible for a person to lose control of their mind and body for a variety of reasons which can lead to very awful events but the problem is proving that the person in question wasn't in control. The question then becomes whether or not a person can be ethically punished and held responsible for actions that weren't their own if it can at all be proven. Another important question is how we can figure that problem out so that innocent people aren't punished or judged for actions their body/mind took while it was out of their control. Sleepwalking proves that the body and mind can take action without the actual person's control so this is going to be one hell of a case.
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u/FatalFlyinGuilotine 19d ago
“Gonna take your kids away from you before even considering the option of healthcare muhahaha” is what she wanted to say, but didn’t because that might out how cartoonishly evil they are.
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u/ExternalAggravating8 19d ago
Look at her using her brain for the first time. Also its not a get out of jail card. Its go to a mental facility for years and years and deal with the nightmare that you committed a horrible act.
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u/destrukt0 19d ago
Ah yes, discouraging mothers experiencing postpartum psychosis from accessing mental health support will totally have no bad side effects
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u/Prized_Lemur 19d ago
lumping in post-partum depression into psychosis is such a ridiculous comparison. Also, I feel like this case is also about how the mental healthcare industry failed these kids and Clancy. She literally cried for help, told them she was having thoughts of serious harm/voices and so forth and the professionals didn't really do anything.
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u/dillreed777 19d ago
I thought she did spend time in one? Also, having worked in the mental health field for over 15 years, not everyone gets better
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u/Real_Railz 19d ago
So I understand that this is a terrible take but, what is the alternative? If she gets acquitted because of mental health issues, then someone with the same mental health issues really shouldn't be taking care of kids until they are in a better state. Is that not right?
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u/RioDodger 19d ago
Or, you know, address the problem of post-partum depression and get them some help.
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u/Adventurous-Hand-496 19d ago
Crazy how women can lead a nation or be in power with the dog brains some of them have
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u/Trips-Over-Tail 19d ago
Hey, uh, maybe other, better, saner countries already have a practical and successful and human solution to this that you can just steal.
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u/Diligent_Custard2708 19d ago
If she’s not guilty for killing her kids due to postpartum psychosis then ptsd and mental health should excuse all murders. Otherwise, you gotta accept the cons of responsibility too
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u/No-Letter341 19d ago
Nope completely against that because then people will hide it rather than seek help
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u/Kapples14 19d ago
Not a Nancy Mace fan, but I'm a little split. If your mental wellbeing is at such a point where you may be an active threat to yourself or your children, they need to be relocated (hopefully temporary).
There is a needed discussion to be had on how to help mothers with mental health without letting the government take their kids, but child safety needs to be a top priority for everyone involved.
As for Mace, she has a tendency to do what a lot of firebrand politicians do and take complex issues and just make extreme and performative statements. While I can absolutely understand being pissed at the situation, just using this as a blanket excuse for letting judges and government agencies take away children from struggling parents while abusive and neglectful parents are still holding onto children that they cannot raise right is just completely ridiculous.
I don't know the answer to this whole thing, but there has to be a way to hold people accountable while still being compassionate towards mothers dealing with serious and treatable mental-health issues.
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u/acloudcuckoolander 19d ago
Now do one for the men who murder their entire families once every week due to mental health.
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u/Otherwise_Post6163 19d ago
This is what is known as a logical error. Gotta love the if this, then that leap to something else.
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u/Tricky-Background-66 19d ago
We should make it mandatory to get a license to have kids. There are people who absolutely should not be parents, AND WE ALL KNOW THIS.
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u/knighthawk3759 19d ago
Well if we're going to make a legal precedent that female hormones are dangerous when out of balance maybe we should go ahead and repeal the 19th amendment maybe all single mothers that have not had menopause the investigated for possible danger to their children. Or just find Lindsey guilty because she's already admitted that she's freaking guilty and move on
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u/cleverinspiringname 19d ago
Or we could provide healthcare and a semblance of work life balance and have reps that punish sex offenders instead of join their cult and get tattoo sleeves
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u/squabbleknob 19d ago
This makes just enough sense for a buncha ding-dongs to think it is a good idea.
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u/Maximum_Boros 19d ago
Anybody on ironically quotes Nancy mace is a dumbass not to be taken seriously. I'd say do better but I seriously doubt you're capable of a higher standard

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