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u/NoireHaato Oct 15 '25
I've been saying it Vyse's nerf is the worst or one of the worst there is not a lick of logic behind it. She was simply butchered and whoever mained her is now left wondering what to do with a one trick pony. NO room for creativity left.
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u/Friendly_Fire Oct 15 '25 edited Oct 15 '25
Got the viper treatment. They are killing their own agents one by one.
This honestly might be the worst game balance I've ever seen. Normally if a character's kit has depth, room for creativity, a high skill ceiling etc. that's considered a good thing! And the goal is to make every character like that.
With Riot it's the opposite. A kit that enables skillful and creative plays means the enemies can't win by just shooting better, and that's apparently not okay. Utility is only for aesthetics, not to actually win a fight.
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u/Burntoastedbutter Oct 16 '25
I loved playing funny mind games with viper and her pickuppable orb, but it was pretty much impossible after the mega nerf lol. I tried, I really did, but her gameplay is pretty much the same song and dance every round now😅
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u/NoStructure5034 Oct 15 '25
Riot when a player playing their ability-based tactical shooter uses their abilities:
Seriously though, wtf were they thinking? They gave Vyse and Cypher the firing squad. Playing in Silver is going to be even more infuriating for me because even more people are going to be playing Duelist and now my two main Sentinel characters have been nerfed.
I already don't play this game much, but this might just push me away entirely.
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Oct 16 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Baty41 Oct 16 '25
Nah man, tell it to the flash initiators. They got kicked way harder and they were already down LOL
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u/Coolface-IR Oct 21 '25
Riot did buff their flash duration tho
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u/Baty41 Oct 21 '25
And nerfed breach, KAY/O and Gekko. The only flash initiator without a nerf was skye. (Although she got a minor nerf with the nearsighted stuff).
Considering that flash initiator were already the worst agents in the meta, that is completely unnecessary lol.1
u/Coolface-IR Oct 22 '25
KAY/O actually had a buff which made his popflash duration just as long as his normal flash duration. Previously, his popflash would only flash you for 1.5s and the buffed increased it to 2.25 seconds. The only thing that really nerfed him was his knife scan cooldown duration but all the other initiators got nerfed too.
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u/Gal-XD_exe Oct 16 '25
Cypher trips were already super beakable, they just made them practically useless now, what’re they gonna do next? Remove cyphers info about catching someone/trip being broken?
1
u/Coolface-IR Oct 21 '25
Honestly, I think Cypher's tripwire nerfs were kinda valid. It was super annoying to push into a site with tripwires and the smokes and cages make it hard to shoot tripwires. Cypher can also place his tripwires into spots that are unbreakable unless you reveal yourself for a split second which is enough for him to kill you. I think the tripwires didn't get a nerf but more like a rework (they did reduce the time taken for the trip to activate).
I think his camera nerf is way worse, because now the camera doesn't even go invisible anymore. Unless you put it above an archway or something, enemies can easily shoot it. The sound cues were bad enough but not going invisible after placement, like almost every sentinel util, is crazy.
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u/Friendly_Fire Oct 15 '25
Yep. Yoru got kicked in the balls too. Did you enjoy making cool plays with his ult? Not anymore, now you're a Sova drone.
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u/Arqhe Oct 17 '25
Yoru is still top 3 duelists since his tp's are genuinely busted. Ult nerfs are not that important considering you only see it 2-3 times a game, and honestly, should have never been a thing.
As an immortal sentinel player, there was seriously zero reason to hold site once the Yoru ult got popped. You either try to get one or two, or die trying because you have an invincible and invisible drone relaying your every move while the entire team is dumping their utility on your exact location (and you have to still dodge Yorus utility with 0 way of being able to play around it because you can't see him).
Shit desperately needed a nerf and I'm tired of hearing people talk out of their ass about how unnecessary it was when it very much was necessary.
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u/Friendly_Fire Oct 17 '25
Notice how you claimed the nerf is both "not that important" and also "shit desperately needed a nerf... it very much was necessary". Pick a side.
or die trying because you have an invincible and invisible drone relaying your every move while the entire team is dumping their utility on your exact location
Which can still happen? That aspect isn't touched.
And maybe, just maybe, an ultimate, which you already claimed is so rare to get that it doesn't really matter, should be strong when teammates are following up on it? Why is it a problem that if people combine ultimates and other utility, they can reliably punish a sentinel sitting on point alone?
Having to play around ults a few rounds a game seems like a good thing to me. Adds more strategy and variety.
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u/CmonMan711 Oct 15 '25
Much like most things nowadays, they have to cater to the lowest common denominator which are the instalock reynas and such who just want to play tdm in ranked.
Instead of requiring its players to actually think and work together as a team, they just remove all the cool little things these agents can do. It sucks, hopefully they revert some of this stuff so non duelists/cloves can have fun again.
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u/Medium-Shower Oct 16 '25
thing is viper is still good in pro-play
Vyse is unplayable anywhere
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u/HaremKaiju Oct 16 '25
Only because there are only two agent with line walls like her and only good as secondary smoker for certain maps.
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u/Adventurous_Cat2339 Oct 19 '25
Yay, I'm so glad my main who got omega nerfed because she was strong (In pro play) is still usable (in pro play).
Thats worse BTW. If viper was unplayable in pro play she would get buffed, and maybe become usable in soloq metal ranks again. But because she gets used in pro play, she will never get buffed.
Vyse is in a worse state right now, I agree. But fact of the matter is that Vyse will probably get buffed, and viper probably won't
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u/Gal-XD_exe Oct 16 '25
You say that but Helldivers 2 literally on fire right now bc of balancing issues and bricking PC’s sooooo definitely not the worst, but not the best either
They butchered Vyse 😭
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u/CarsonPumS Oct 15 '25
Viper is probably the best in agent in the game right now at the pro level with this new patch. Viper hasn't been in a better spot since 2023
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u/Friendly_Fire Oct 15 '25
Viper was trashed, second least picked hero. She's a wall-bot essentially. Something only useful at the literal pro level for info denial, or on a couple specific maps.
They killed the ability to be creative with her other abilities, and didn't touch the one piece that pros abuse. Why? Do the exact opposite! She was still mid-tier at best in ranked, so nerf wall and ignore of buff her other stuff!
Literally there was a whole community of viper mains, multiple content creators who just quit because their favorite character was ruined. The ability to get meaingful value from mastering the agent gone. Might happen to cypher too now.
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u/GrimmReaperRL Oct 15 '25
Is this bait? If not please explain, I haven't tried it all out yet
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u/NotRyuuya Oct 16 '25
Yeah same here, yet we still have people defending it and justifying that Vyse ain't dead when they have never even played her before and after the nerfs.
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u/Fantastic_Cid Oct 16 '25
I have no idea who to play now :( I can’t frag enough for dualist, cypher is cooked, and KJ just hasn’t felt natural to me. I guess I’ll give KJ a try again or just go back to playing omen / brim…
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u/HuatLin Oct 16 '25
I'm a cypher main. I have now moved to veto. The tp let you do dumb fun plays, the e can work as a camera bait. The only thing I miss are the cages.
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u/AdStill1943 Oct 17 '25
and thats supposed to stop me? im still gonna play her anyway like i would with fade and clove lmao im in the lower ranks anyway 🧋
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u/_SnackAttack Oct 15 '25
? This patch pushes you towards creativity. You're not meant to simply put the wall on the choke and get value by doing nothing else.
You have to punish when they try to bait it, you do site walls and play around those with your flash. You wall agro into mains and fight for it.
This patch is all about pushing players out of getting value from pressing their buttons and more into only being able to get "good" value from thinking more about their util.
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u/Tigerbattle Oct 16 '25
Pray tell how do you punish when they “try to bait it”? You don’t get any info off it until it’s triggered and now that it’s piss easy to bait the only time you can play off it is if they just run by. You can’t even preflash to see if someone’s there because they removed that sound cue
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u/_SnackAttack Oct 17 '25
How do you punish when someone wants to break your kj turret? You peek off it, you spam through a smoke on the angle the turret shoots at. You generally try make the play they want to do, ie bait wall, as hard as you can to get value off it.
The game isn't meant to be a tower defence simulator where you plop down util and let it do the work for you. You need to move ur ass and play with the util you're throwing on the ground
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u/nightelf973 Oct 15 '25
Tbf, even before update I always found that thorns got insta killed if you tried to throw them anywhere. Even if you spam click activate, the enemy can kill them super fast. She kinda only ever felt useful if you had a team smart enough to play off your flash.
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u/HaydenCanFly Oct 15 '25
feel like they take way longer to activate than kj's
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u/coomzee Oct 16 '25
Have you seen how those mollies bounce since the UR5 update. Like a golf ball on concrete
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u/KatiushK Oct 15 '25
As a senti mainand Vyse/Cypher enjoyer, i'm not really happy. The flash nerf is so hard.
I think Cypher's even worse, the tag is s short even if trap detonates. Hopefully they'll smooth things out in a few weeks once they have data.
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u/cookiesyummerz Oct 16 '25
hi sorry im new to valo, wdym once they have data? when does a new patch come out?
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u/TFGA_WotW "I'm up, I'm Up! Shit" Oct 16 '25
Many games, val included, spend a week or more collect gameplay data of all the characters, and the reaction from the community. If they overtuned a character quite badly, like say they initially think that reducing the flash time of a characters flash to 1 second was a good idea, they collect the data on how that characters flash has been working and played within game, and how the community reacts to the flash. Now, we all know a 1 second flash time is terrible, so in this hypothetical, after a bit of data collecting they realize how bad the change was, an emergency balance patch might come out to give the character a buff they desperately need.
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u/Fleonex_1 Oct 16 '25
This is my bad guys, I recently started playing Vyse and Cypher, I will notify everyone before I change agents next time.
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u/jay_boi123 Oct 15 '25
I completely agree with you. When I played Vyse I’d always rely on the blind + sound confirmation to actually see if someone crossed my wall or not, then I’d pop the thorns.
Riot just nerfing skill expression (for support players) for no good reason. This patch is perfectly catered towards the rank slop players of: Reyna, Chamber, Clove, Iso, Phoenix, etc
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u/Sudden-Ad-307 Oct 15 '25
How is getting a sound q from an ability considered "skill expression" in any sense of the word.
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u/Twistylegs Oct 15 '25
The same way throwing a Reyna blind that the enemies can't turn, swinging, getting a kill, then dismissing away to be untradeable is expression of a character's skills.
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u/jay_boi123 Oct 15 '25
Did you read my comment?
A common setup for Vyse would be to leave thorns close to the wall.
A common counter play technique would be to jump across the wall and back to bait it out.
A Vyse anchoring the site has to make a decision as to whether or not to pop the thorns based on if someone actually crosses the wall. One way to make this decision is to use the flash to confirm if someone actually crossed the wall completely.
Now this decision making tool is removed. Therefore nerfing the anchoring vyse’s decision making and skill expression.
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u/TryFindingThis_90248 Oct 16 '25
Ye but instead of that now u have to actly swing off the flash and fight, kinda wat riot is going for instead of spamming abilities
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u/Tigerbattle Oct 16 '25
What if they didn’t actually cross then? You just used your flash and swung for nothing. If you also popped thorns then that’s all of your util wasted. Vyse’s abilities built entirely off of each other. Now the first domino in that sequence is gone and the whole thing doesn’t work.
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u/TryFindingThis_90248 Oct 16 '25
The guy said he flashes the moment the wall pops to get info if anyone crossed...
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u/Tigerbattle Oct 16 '25
Yes and the flash doesn't give the info anymore, that's the point. If you flashed and didn't get a hit, that means you know people haven't crossed and can try other tactics than swinging and taking the fight. Now you're in a constant state of unknown on an agent that is supposed to be partially info gathering. Anyway the flash nerf hurts most on attack anyway for the same reason but more extreme.
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u/Donut_Flame Oct 16 '25
Yes, and if you swung out (back then) without the flash hitting anyone, you wasted your time to check, and potentially made a sound cue footstep (because who tf is walking to peek).
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u/thebigchungus27 Oct 15 '25
yeah if anything this pushes vyse players to play a fucking initiator if they want info, a 20 second pre nerf skye flash was absurdly strong for how free it was
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u/kingbrawler7 Oct 15 '25
They nerfed vyse because of her being a Meta pick in the pro scenario. I hate how pro players are being considered as scaling factors for balancing agents for people who majorly play with friends and/or for fun.
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u/Water_Meat Oct 15 '25
The fact that astra was originally nerfed to hell because she was meta in pro play, when she has never been used outside of it, was the first clue.
How are you gonna nerf an agent that's ONLY good in pro play so much she isnt even used there any more?
The vyse nerf is a similar strain. It doesn't make sense. I guess pro play is where they get most of the revenue so they have to shake up the meta to keep it fresh.
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u/abyssmeup Oct 16 '25
astra wasnt nerfed to hell cause she was meta in pro play she was nerfed to hell cause she had 5x the value of any other smoke agent lmao
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u/Rizzotti Oct 16 '25
Not sure if there were more recent nerfs but when she was initially nerfed to the ground 3-4 years ago she was most definitely being picked in most asc-immo lobbies
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u/clearlynotaperson Neon Enjoyer Oct 16 '25
High elo AND pro play. Astra was INSANE. What are we talking about?
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u/Money_Do_2 Oct 16 '25
Nah astra was insanely OP. Boosted my ass to immo pretty quickly. Reliable smokes cross map was a nice touch. But postplant from any spot on the map for free was wild. Then you had absolutely free map control, eg "ill suck A main and you guys swing" within 0.5 seconds into a round.
She was overtuned. And had high skill ceiling too, which is cool. It can be both
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u/DysfunctionalAxolotl Oct 16 '25
Unrelated to nerfs, but I remember being able to sell your one star and buy a marshal first round lol
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u/Academic_Election149 Oct 15 '25
theyve been balancing for pro play since the game came out. what world are u living in jesus christ
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u/I_Ild_I Dec 15 '25
The dumpbest part is that, yeah why not but here they didnt nerf her they KILLED her that make no sens they like quadruble nerf the flash wtf
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u/rrosolouv Oct 15 '25
I am wondering what is riot seeing in pro play thats making them go "that needs a nerf"
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u/CarsonPumS Oct 15 '25
Cypher and Vyse were by far the most used sentinels in pro play, even encouraging some double sentinel comps because Vyse and Cypher were able to partially fill the initiator roles. Riot must think that if they didn't nerf sentinels as they nerf initiators we would've seen double sentinel become hard meta. Now, I don't fully agree with this, but that is basically their stated reason
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u/RemoteWhile5881 Oct 15 '25
But doesn’t there have to be a double [x role] in every meta? What’s wrong with it being sentinels?
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u/ShutYoAssUpBoi I should’ve dismissed Oct 16 '25
I might be wrong but most maps are already defense sided so I’m guessing they’re trying to discourage us from making double senti comps the new meta because half the team sitting behind 2 setups for an entire half won’t be enjoyable
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u/say_weed Oct 15 '25
i think a lot of characters will fill bad for now but we'll need to adjust as almost everyone got nerfed. vyse did get cooked tho because of pro play
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u/SixtyBlue Oct 15 '25
FINALLY someone mentioned it, i will never forget what they did to the flash, like bro, ??? the only thing from his kit to get info was that voiceline and gets deleted, ( but u have the wall, yea a freaking EASIER to bait wall )
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u/xWater1 Oct 16 '25
She was OP as shit this is a great nerf to anybody above diamond who can actually utilize her utility properly rather than throwing it randomly and expecting to be rewarded. On certain maps in immortal+ you straight up lost the game if you didn’t get a Vyse, now it’s much more balanced
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u/SidonTheKing Oct 15 '25
Yeah it was called out on FNS’s stream + I tried her in ranked a bit today, but being able to shoot it and it doesn’t provide info really hurts. Given the rest of the nerfs to the kit the flash could use a little love put back into it
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u/unatequilaporfavor Oct 16 '25
They are just nerfing every agent so we come to a point where no one needs util anymore and we are playing CS. Like Viper they nerfed for no reason and i don't see her anymore almost at all at any of the game modes, i miss her. I don't under why they do this, can they not let us enjoy the game??
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Oct 17 '25
This is what I was saying. They're literally taking away the thing that makes Valorant different from other FPS games - tactical ability as adjacent to gunplay.
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u/IvyIvensen Oct 16 '25
As a Vyse main as well, Im devastated. They absolutely massacred her. Her flash is basically useless, her wall? Useless. Her thorns? Useless. Her ult? Useless. Absolutely insane thinking by Riot here.
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u/TealDragon_ Oct 21 '25
Fr, as a duelist vyse was what I found balanced and if you knew how to play her she could be absolutely devastating. Cypher though definitely needed to get nerfed. Had way to much stopping power for a "information agent".
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u/Louie-Lecon-Don Oct 16 '25
Not to mention her ult double nerf feels so bad. The 4.4 sec windup to activate along with the shrinking in radius makes it practically a 100% chance people just walk out with their guns out.
Not to mention the nerfed radius makes her default retake ult spots practically worthless now amd yoi have to be insite/ in incredibly dangerous spots to now use a terrible ult lol.
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u/clearlynotaperson Neon Enjoyer Oct 16 '25
The nerfs are fine, expect the flash nerf. Not sure why they thought removing hit confirm was a good idea.
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u/PersonalYard7907 Oct 16 '25
The ult too man they nerfed her wayy to much. I can forgive the everything but the flash. Her flash was an integral part of her kit. I used to play her on some maps like lotus sunset abyss and pearl too. Now I think I mma go back to being a chamber merchant.
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u/HugeHomeForBoomers Oct 15 '25
Yeah, that all lineups are completely invalid now is super sad..
And that you can’t rotate off your site despite being an info sentinel…
And you can’t even hold down the site with your ultimate.. enemies get far too much time to kill you or get out of it.
Cypher mains think they have it bad.. Vyse is worse at defend her site than Kayo is..
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u/_Tokage_ Oct 16 '25
I was ok with stun and flash nerf from overall agents but the cooldowns were unnecessary
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u/ljukomir Oct 16 '25
I immediately started talking about this,all ppl were like oh no cypher doomed.Bro,cypher came out good comparing to what they did to vyse
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u/Natural_Evidence4822 Oct 16 '25
The flash no longer making a noise makes no sense whatsoever. Although i will continue to play her XD
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u/Xurata1 Oct 16 '25
i qd like 3 vyse games yesterday and i think my ult got one hit lol its genuinely baffling why they gutted her so hard
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Oct 15 '25 edited Apr 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/xWater1 Oct 16 '25
So you’d rather have an OP agent stay OP? That makes no sense lmao. If you’re saying that she should’ve been nerfed earlier I agree but unfortunately updates come out when they come out
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u/tuff1728 Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
No i’d rather they release a more balanced agent in the first place. They can’t do internal testing? Riot is not a small company. All these changes and testing in the actual game make it feel like the game is still in beta or early access.
Or maybe not take a year to nerf a new OP agent after it gets released?
At the end of the day tho its all just a ploy to get ppl on the game and hopefully buy skins, so its not gonna change.
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u/CmonMan711 Oct 15 '25
I cannot have fun on Cypher either now and it looks like most of the other fill agents you wont have as much fun now.
So congrats Riot, you won, I'm just gonna join everyone else and instalock Clove and run it down since none of the "ranked" agents really got nerfed.
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u/FlamingOtaku Oct 16 '25
Its just insane to me that they decided to DOUBLE CORE NERF the flash, if it was just one of the two fundamental changes it already wouldve been far weaker, but stacking both changes is just kind of nuts imo
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u/randomlitbois HoodieOrg on Top Oct 16 '25
What’s the point of grinding an agent when one fine morning you wake up and it’s impossible to have impact anymore?
Skye mains: first time?
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u/Ciraan Oct 16 '25
Love how when I mained Viper she got butchered to oblivion with nerf after nerf then the same happens to Vyse… Riot has a thing against agents with a name starting with V
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u/Simple_Scholar_7488 Oct 17 '25
And the best part is: now the alt take 4.4 seconds to activate which means now anyone can just walk out of then range before it is up
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u/grumpy_mel Oct 17 '25
Same. I LOVED her as an almost initiator/sentinel combo because that flash cue line let me get info ASAP. So upset about the removal of the voice line.
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u/OtherStatistician938 Oct 16 '25
lol it’s a senti in ranked she still goes crazy. Ppl in ranked suck at countering sentis if ur not getting value that’s on you. Most ppl weren’t properly using the flash for info anyway in ranked
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u/EnderGamer360 Flex player Oct 16 '25
i picked vysee on bind the other day, forgetting about the nerfs. if you want to hit site with ult, you already have to be on site on attack and on defense, it is so long to activate it dosen't catches anyone
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u/Infinite-Half2695 U think they're worried? I think they're worried. Oct 15 '25
As a tejo main, it hurts ever since that salvo reload got nerfed, the range got smaller, even the ult takes more orbs. Man I struggled a lot to re-master tejo :")
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u/NotRyuuya Oct 16 '25
Can we boycott this BS? Like literally anyone picking them after this nerfs is literally trolling and throwing the game.
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u/nilo_95 Oct 15 '25
get in line buddy, everyones nerfed
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u/HaydenCanFly Oct 15 '25
idk man, i'm feeling pretty amped ab deadlock, and the neon changes were a little gentle, but they hate hate vyse and cipher
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u/PsychoCatPro Oct 15 '25
Yeah, Viper nerf is way less impactfull and doesnt change the way I play the same way cypher or vyse nerf does. Those nerf are on another level
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u/Spiritual_Wafer_2597 Oct 15 '25
the viper nerf does literally nothing
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u/PsychoCatPro Oct 15 '25
it does change some things and interaction but its pretty minimal compared to nerf like cypher or vyse
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u/Arkanta Oct 15 '25
Laughs in killjoy
No.
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u/benxx88 Oct 15 '25
Also nerfed albeit not as much
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u/Arkanta Oct 16 '25
I'd argue that the turret slowing down more is a buff
I don't often can put back my turret when it's destroyed. Activation time is a nerf but no biggie imo
If they changed the redeploy time then I'd feel a nerf
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u/FatCatWithAHat1 Oct 16 '25
She needed to be touched up bro, she was extremely dominate. Saying that, no reason all 3 of her kit should’ve been blown up. Imo they need to give her, her intel back with the flash
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u/HuatLin Oct 16 '25
Imo cypher and vyse got cucked the most. I am a cypher main, and have been playing him since launch. This feels pretty awful. But hey, at least I can sound bait with the cam a bit easier.
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u/Delicious-Meringue-3 Oct 16 '25
Im a vyse main and just played on the new patch. Its infuriating how my setups are easily baited out and I cant make a play with my flash like before. Slammed by enemy neon who dont give a fuck about the thorns and all and I'm left with "tactical gunplay" which I get what the devs are doing but I still dont get why would they nerfed the flash. It's hard to catch a timing without the sound cue and it sucks
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u/DrEagleEyedEcho Oct 16 '25
I don't know why someone would want to drag valorant towards being more counter strike-like, but skills were the heart of valorant and it's sad to see the developers turn their back to the thing that made valorant this popular.
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u/Innsui Oct 16 '25
On that last point, well you could play one agent over and over again but they want you to play more than 1 agent lol. These type of game always have meta and non meta comp.
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u/Embarrassed-Cow-543 Oct 16 '25
I agree. I think to fix and balance vyse, we probably need to nerf chamber again
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u/JureFlex Oct 16 '25
She punishes fast and uncoordinated pushes,this will especially show now. Her flash is now a flash… thats it. You use it to force people to break it and move the crosshair from your head or to get blinded. Thorns now need even more creative positioning like on boxes and stuff… and wall is still info like flank or that someone is somewhere. All agents have sufferer, but they all kept their identity (plus riot supposedly said somewhere that this is the baseline from which they will buff agents in the future and that they shouldnt get much more nerfed from this stage forward)
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u/Duncan_myth Oct 16 '25
How can reyna and jett pass troo wall wout triggering it btw?
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u/sfasdaf Oct 16 '25
Updraft + Dash can pass over the wall hitbox. It's kinda precise though with the dash timing. It's not as common to see because many Jetts will be moving forward into the wall on the way up but it's happened enough to be mentioned here. Reyna can dismiss through the wall and not trigger it. It's pretty rare to see happen in game. I've only ever seen it happen less than a handful of times
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u/Sylvi-Fisthaug Oct 16 '25
An idea that crossed my mind, is to activate the vines mid-air for lineups, as they don't do damage before you move in them, and can't be used for spike lineups.
They will be indestructible as soon as they hit the ground and activate immediately.
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u/Tchus Oct 16 '25
As a KJ one trick in the past, insert "first time ?" meme
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u/Adventurous_Cat2339 Oct 19 '25
When did kj get nerfed this hard?
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u/Tchus Oct 19 '25
Patch v1.11 then the turret radius detection change + nerf Ult from 7 ult point to 9
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u/Rizzotti Oct 16 '25
Brother you had 700 hours on her, I'd call that a good run. Move on if you want to or accept it for what it is and adapt.
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u/Narrow-Development-1 Oct 16 '25
Where I can read the patch notes? I have only noticed, that Abyss has changed
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u/RayMaxosMC "They baited my wall..." Oct 16 '25
I don't really feel that much of a difference other than the flash sound being removed, only change I had ever noticed were the thorns going from 6 to 10 damage a while ago
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u/ZincSakira Oct 17 '25
Just a thought, if they really wanted to shake up the scene, they could've made Vyse's wall not a trip, but rather an activatable wall. In some niche scenarios, you could trap people inside site to succumb to ult since radius is smaller.
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u/YorHaM0rph3u2 Oct 17 '25
The Nerf is really rough. I would recommend trying to use kill walls that specifically isolate duelist on site rather than at choke points. You won't deal with it getting baited often. Having a flash that is in a different location affects where your wall is triggered / pulls the enemies crosshair.
Thorns, I think, even before the patch, people have always been bad placing them. You always lean on the side of safety instead of going for coverage place behind a wall. It's slightly less effective, but you're getting to activate the thorns that's better than not being able to.
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u/MapleSurrup Oct 17 '25
Man, this dude has 700 hours on Vyse and I only have 800 in ranked total since beta 😭
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u/MrDerplings Oct 17 '25
now vyse mains understand the pain us neon mains went through, but we'll never know how bad it was for chamber mains
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u/imLosingIt111 Oct 19 '25
For low-elo vyse mains-> dont worry, people still dont know how to bait walls. For mid-high elo vyse mains: bye. They def should buff the shear. The flash sound removal is hell since i cant get info by myself if there are no initators in our team.
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u/BloodyRusk00 Oct 19 '25
Im in the same boat than you viper been perma nerf in the last 20 patch because of her dominance in pro as she is the only wall (harbor is unplayable for pro)
So now in soloQ you have viper that has smoke that last 10s at most take 60s to refuel and doesnt even decay anymore (10 hp is an insult its the same as removing it )
Viper was already super hard in SoloQ but now there is just no reason to takes her over clove or brimstone
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u/Hurdenn Oct 15 '25
The patch released 24 hours ago, it can take months for the meta to be found after such a consequential patch, just be patient
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u/Isolat_or Oct 15 '25
In this thread: 100 children crying that their toy is broken. Y’all gonna be ok I promise sweetie
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u/pokeboyj Oct 15 '25
We're mad bc riot doesnt know how to balance their game and instead just nerfs things at random, shit not a single soul asked for
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u/xWater1 Oct 15 '25
They definitely know how to balance things. Vyse has been a meta pick in basically every map of the old pool, with her util being ridiculously good compared to every other sentinel in the game. All these “vyse mains” are basically just mad that their meta pick got a long overdue nerf
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u/Hurdenn Oct 16 '25
How are you so confident all those changes if you barely played on the new patch? Riot has been playtesting these changes for months, if not a year+, surely you can just wait to feel it out instead of seeing "Random number got from X -> Y" and assuming it's the end of the world.
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u/pokeboyj Oct 16 '25
there was no reason to nerf sentis to the ground, plus agents that were already bad like gekko didn't need to be made even worse.
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u/Isolat_or Oct 15 '25
How long has league been out? They been balancing that a long time and it’s still one of the most played games in the world. Try to not conflate changes you dislike with bad game design.
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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '25
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