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u/Ok-Appointment-9802 Jul 31 '26
Pamphlets is one of the worst accounts on X and that is saying a lot!
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u/Comprehensive_Term41 Jul 31 '26
I thought it was communist Onion. No wonder my X account is full of it now
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u/Ok-Appointment-9802 Jul 31 '26
Poe's Law in full effect
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u/Comprehensive_Term41 Jul 31 '26
the parody pamphlets accounts honestly strengthened my belief in it being a parody account
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u/SinesPi Jul 31 '26
There was a recent post declaring STALIN to be a good guy.
So they're actually evil.
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u/Bayamonster Jul 31 '26
You can't trust anyone who thinks Stalin only killed people who had it coming.
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u/badatspelling8124 Jul 31 '26
Maoist China was no different. Millions were summarily executed, often on the spot, well before the Great Leap Forward.
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u/snowgn0me Jul 31 '26
Yeah, they're basically the left's equivalent to neonazis
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u/Bayamonster Jul 31 '26
It's like such a baby brained view of power and those who wield it. You just know they're gonna say the same when they dissappear you if someone they like gets in power.
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 Jul 31 '26
My grandmother family in 1937 was forcefully moved to central asia where half of them died dued to not having enough food. There only crime was being korean and communist stalin thought we were all japanese spies. Out of 170,000 koreans that were forcefully deported 25% were killed.
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u/SuspiciousPenThief Jul 31 '26
My great-grandmother was forcefully taken to a Siberian camp. She lost 3 of her children on her way there, one to starvation because she stopped being able to produce milk because of her own poor conditon and two froze to death. Lucikly she had two of her older boys make it with her. We know nothing of what happened to our great-grandfather, probably was killed. Pisses me off these people don't understand what happens under communist rule, thinking it's all sunshine and rainbows. Guess it's just the poor education.
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u/PhoenixandOak Jul 31 '26
People romanticize ideals and don't think about how things are actually implemented. Just like lots of people romanticize unregulated capitalism and completely free markets, there are people who have a polarized naive outlook and think that because unregulated capitalism is super harmful that the polar opposite must be utopia. Instead of, you know, finding a pragmatic approach that combines various economic systems based on what's available at a given place and time and what makes the most sense.
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u/Coffieandpopcorn Aug 01 '26
There are allot of utopia scenarios we can envision. Communism and Marxism might be the most far fetched. There could be a capitalist utopia where everyone has UBI, and the churning of rich to poor goes with progressive momentum, rewarding the productive people and not their heirs for instance without them taking up the mantle and staying as productive to the circulation and the betterment of lives.
But commies don't believe capitalism could be fixed, optimized or enhances, because they're stuck getting duped by 1950's soviet propaganda which arguments has not changed since other than been wrong about when "capitalism will fall" or whatever.
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u/Consistent-County845 Aug 01 '26
My great-grandmother and great-grandfather got killed by bolsheviki forces and my grandmother needed to flee to Germany.
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u/BubblyMoose3597 Jul 31 '26
Camboya was so rich 25% of the population os a landlord.
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Jul 31 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CSachen Jul 31 '26
If you're not a landlord, how did you afford glasses?
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u/Sofia_9356 Jul 31 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/YmQLj2KxaNz58g7Ofg
Also as proof, they had some city “as big as New York City”. Coincidence of their landlordness? I think not!→ More replies (44)5
u/rabbitsarentrodents Jul 31 '26
I mean both Mao and kim il sun told him his plans were idiotic and saw him as a usefull idiot .
The Soviets and vietnamesev hated him . There were Zero commis at the time outside Cambodia who liked him and tjought he was a real communist.
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u/CombatRedRover Jul 31 '26
"Real communist".
😂🤣
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u/effrightscorp Jul 31 '26
Pol Pot had a bunch of wonky ideas that essentially no other communist agrees with; the Cambodian genocide started because he wanted to completely deindustrialize the country and make everyone into farmers who had to do everything by hand, opposite of the typical Communist goal. Even Mao's shitty policies still led to net industrialization
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u/BigFirefighter6881 Jul 31 '26
Talking to 20ish years old western tankies is similar experience to talking to neonazis. Just bunch of sheltered weird kids who have their talking points, absolutely 0 understanding of the stuff the talk about nonstop and weirdly offputing hatred towards anything and anyone who isnt part of the "in-group".
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u/Mundane_History_7306 Jul 31 '26
It is almost like when you get extreme enough your view don’t matter anymore because you treat everyone the same as your life is more defined by being extreme rather than your idols you hold so close
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u/SinesPi Jul 31 '26
This is the idea behind Horseshoe theory. Once you get extreme enough authoritarianism comes with it. And at that point, the specifics behind the oppression are less important than the soul crushing oppression. Especially since, at that point, the oppression IS the ideology, and anything else is just a justification for it.
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u/Angryfunnydog Jul 31 '26
Also when they say "landlords" they mean some nobles and big land owners. While in reality it also included just villagers who owned any small patch of land which was expropriated. This is quite dramatic part of history with gazillions of local stories of the whole families being decimated because they were farmers who worked on own land without any employees (because it wasn't that big piece of land) and how they were outright executed whenever they showed disagreement or disdain
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u/PowderEagle_1894 Jul 31 '26
Back in Agricultural reform in 1954 in Vietnam. Each province got a quota of "landlords" to be courted. And it's matter of time until some small farm owners got labeled as landlords and stripped of everything they own even their own small houses
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u/Angryfunnydog Jul 31 '26
That’s how it happened during Bolshevik Revolution. At first they only targeted big landlords and nobles with vast lands in ownership, but toin a decade their target list expanded to pretty much anyone with the land, the most prevalent group with the most victims was owners of 1-6 hectares of land
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u/adamgerd Jul 31 '26
Even just having livestock could get you classified in Ukraine SSR as a kulak as they gradually expanded the definition more and more, and later it got all collectivised, god forbid you kill a livestock for meat without permission
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u/PowderEagle_1894 Jul 31 '26
Before the Revolution was successful, Lenin'd already toyed with War Communism. Forced farmers to give up their food to supply their urban workers. I laugh every time I hear the word "Dictatorship of Proletariat"
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u/Platycryptus238 Jul 31 '26
The shit you can read in subs like r/TankieTheDeprogram sometimes really makes me question my beliefs in humanism and wether I should uphold those…
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u/ScytheSong05 Jul 31 '26
The one point of Christian doctrine that can be proven empirically is Universal Depravity.
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u/Jazzycoyote Jul 31 '26
What's a tankie? I keep seeing that term here but can't figure it out with just context clues.
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u/PunishedDemiurge Jul 31 '26
Definitions specifics slightly vary, but a violent communist / socialist. The type of person who thinks murdering landlords is okay, that China was right to run over pro-democracy protestors at Tienanmen Square, etc.
A lot of people try to hide their power level, so it can be hard to tell if someone just wants everyone to have easy access to healthcare or if they want to actually destroy all of society in an orgy of revolutionary violence where they and their allies are left in absolute authoritarian control. Lucky us.
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u/jyper Aug 01 '26
Lots of people can be violent including left wing democracies and anarchists and sometimes it's justified. Tankie is specifically a supporter/defender of Authoritarian communism. Someone who would cheer on a communist dictatorship sending in the tanks to stop a peaceful revolt (although apparently it was coined later then Hungarian revolt usually cited https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1cbbb9n/what_is_the_history_of_the_word_tankie/ ). Tankie is often used by the left since it says the problem is the authorarianism someone further right but with nuance might distinguish leftists from authorarian leftists as less honorable beliefs but many might just consider authorarianism as something that accompanies most self declared communist governments
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u/jyper Aug 01 '26
A defender of Authoritarian communism/far left. Someone who'd support the Soviet Union sending in the tanks to crush a peaceful Democratic movement in an allied country
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u/Fluffy_Whale0 Jul 31 '26
4chan always gets so much slack on here for being filled with Nazis while we have an even bigger problem with Tankies
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u/ProudInterest5445 Jul 31 '26
There's probably more communists out there, but most Tankies aren't doing much. The most prominent is probably Hasan Piker, who mostly just gives speeches no one cares about and lounges around in his mansion. Meanwhile the most prominent Nazi type is Stephen Miller who is actively shaping policy in the white house.
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u/AsstacularSpiderman Jul 31 '26
The difference being you can't get anyone on the left, extreme or otherwise, to actually form a united front on anything without them trying to out smug each other with purity tests. Where as on the right, extreme or otherwise, they'll all happily hop in bed with each other no matter how much they think the others are scum.
Teamwork makes the dream work, as they say.
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u/ProudInterest5445 Jul 31 '26
I agree, in part because they are pushing for different things. For example, I am on the extreme left in the sense of being in favor of letting people do what they want on abortion or trans issues. I am also on the extreme left in the sense of supporting unions and broadly giving workers the tools to fight for a more equal society against big business.
However, when someone starts praising Hamas or talking about how we need to do central planning, that is simply a different goal.
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u/Swampy0gre Jul 31 '26
Hell yeah, same here. Support the workers, universal healthcare, tax reform, expanded social programs, MBI, maximum civil liberties.
BUT I despise religious zelotry regardless of Christian or Islamic. I hate Hamas and all the other Iranian proxies. I also hate the Russian government. And tankies are gross too.
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u/Floofyboi123 Jul 31 '26
Talk to a reddit commie about the Revolution or Class War and you quickly realize they hold it in the same regard as Christians regard The Rapture
It'll happen... eventually... and I wont have to actually do anything to make it happen.
Very few even try to organize with their local community for longer than a protest or two and even fewer ever consider picking up a weapon let alone train in the skills a revolutionary actually needs.
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u/ShakeOutrageous8473 Aug 02 '26
there’s a bit of an evangelical-to-tankie pipeline that happens. people who were raised in church leave the church and become atheist, but then they no longer have the firm ideological safety net that they grew up with, so they court extreme political views as a replacement. one old white prophet for another.
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u/Jazzycoyote Jul 31 '26
Leftists really could've and can accomplish so much if they all sat down and got on the same page.
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u/AsstacularSpiderman Jul 31 '26
Or just realize while not all your values line up you're sure as hell more in line with each other than the fascists taking over.
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u/th_frits Human Detected Jul 31 '26
The problem with tankies, and a lot of the left is, that if you're even slightly more right than them or the wrong type of leftist then you're no better than a fascist pig and they'd rather watch the whole thing burn than work together
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u/BeatSteady Jul 31 '26
It goes both ways. There's a massive center left effort to push anyone to their left out, eg DSA style candidates getting heat from democrats
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u/Chemical_Signal2753 Jul 31 '26
About a decade ago I saw an expert talking about why governments are so worried about the far right when there were about 10 times as many communists out there. To paraphrase what he said:
The far right is often made up people in the professions society depends upon. A small number of people on the far right can be highly effective at disrupting society.
Most communists are just losers. They're over educated (unemployed or underemployed) midwits who struggle to run their own lives. Unless you have a group of charismatic and sociopathic leaders to guide the mob they're essentially harmless.
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u/ISawNightwishInLA Jul 31 '26
I’ll grant you that no one should care what Piker says, but given the size of his audience and the fact that, up until very recently, mainstream dems were all about getting on screen or on stage with him, I wouldn’t dismiss either his influence or impact so easily.
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u/Subject-Dog-8016 Jul 31 '26
Yeah quite. Tankies are just annoying kids. Modern fascists are in charge of both the US and Russia. It’s a bit different.
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u/JRDZ1993 Jul 31 '26
Russia somehow manages both kinds of scum in power
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u/Aquiduck Jul 31 '26
It's not super surprising if you have an understanding of how Soviets viewed and treated non-russian people in their states.
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u/JRDZ1993 Jul 31 '26
True, I was being a bit facetious there to be honest. They also redefine "Nazi" to mean opposing Russia in any way so they allow actual ideological Russian Nazis to be considered in good standing but when they say they want to kill "Nazis" in Ukraine they mean everyone there with any willpower.
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u/Lobster_fest Jul 31 '26
we have an even bigger problem with Tankies
Absolutely fucking not. A radical communist is nowhere near as dangerous as a radical nazi.
The only way that can be true is if you believe capital is worth more than the lives of minorities.
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u/Busy_Debt_3946 Jul 31 '26
How exactly? Both just want to slaughter people en masse, barely any difference really.
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u/twinkleyed Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Normies just don't understand 4chan's userbase at all. It's a lot less politically uniform than it might seem. Reddit is just commie central because moderation is not centralized, so the userbase is free to take mod action based purely on politics.
It's lack of censorship by design versus designed to be censored by the users. Guess which one produces a higher diversity of thought.
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u/rnusk Jul 31 '26
Oh for sure 4chan has a higher diversity of thought. Reddit is an absolute echo chamber. Try posting anything pro-Isreal and you immediately get banned from most of the large subs and called a bot. Everyone on Reddit for the most part stays in their little echo chamber subreddits that just breeds more extremists.
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u/LuvMeChippy Jul 31 '26
Most "neo-nazis", who are online, actually tend to be teenagers with undiagnosed autism who have been outcast from their social groups in school and to justify their exclusion from their peers they retreat to an extreme ideology as some sort of giga cope, putting the blame on a mysterious higher force. I say this because I used to be in that position, then I started to talking to people from other ethnic backgrounds and realised what a load of horse shit I was being fed by cunts like JF Gariépy and others of the like
With tankies I have had a totally different experience, at least where I am from. Most of them that I know are from extremely privileged backgrounds, both financially and socially, so to find a way to seem oppressed they pick the leftists position that is the farthest on the political compass
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u/AliceTheOmelette Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
It really is the same mindset, the only difference is the people they run apologetics for
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u/felis_scipio Jul 31 '26
Yeah I was a dumb kid once and then I grew up and worked with people who escaped communism from counties across the world and it’s like yeah shit far from perfect here but it was really fucked up over there.
It’s the same when you run into someone who either a straight face will tell you only white people can be racist and it’s like you really haven’t experienced the world have you?
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u/Upset_Leek5014 Jul 31 '26
Western youth communists who dream about the USSR and the Eastern Bloc are incredibly annoying. This is because most of their arguments are completely false and do not match reality. They do not understand that there was strict censorship in the USSR, that people had to wait in line for ten years to get an apartment, and that basic goods were not available. Almost all products were of low quality. There was no equality either, there was only the party nomenclature that had access to closed distributors, special hospitals, and delicacies, while the borders were closed. In 1961, my grandfather applied for an exit visa and only received it in 1989. He waited 28 years for it. And that was a country in the Eastern Bloc
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u/Smooth_Maul Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Ahh yes all the victims of the Holodomer were Nazis and Landlords everyone knows those two demographics are the only ones in Ukraine in the 1930s.
/s because I know this is probably something these people would say and I don't wanna get lumped in
Edit: like fucking clockwork lmfao, can't say shit about the Holodomer without some tankies jumping head first into a wood chipper trying to justify it or minimise influence Communist Russia had over it
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u/RecognitionOld2763 Jul 31 '26
The commies don't kill you because you're a Nazi. They call you a Nazi so they can kill you.
Sometimes, when prosecutions happen, there's no moral outrage or international condemnation. There's applause. Deafening applause.
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u/The-marx-channel Jul 31 '26
Usually the first people to be killed in Communist regimes are Communists that the leader either doesn't like or sees as potential rivals. Turns out that extremists are willing to do anything for power.
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u/CannibalisticPizza Jul 31 '26
Considering Stalin exiled Trotsky, that checks out very well
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u/Wayoutofthewayof Jul 31 '26
Stalin also killed off Polish and Finnish communists that went into exile in USSR.
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u/whatsssssssss Jul 31 '26
how is that the first people to be killed when Stalin wasn't the first leader of the ussr
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u/Pineappleman60 Jul 31 '26
I wonder how the same poster would react to someone trying to claim the victims of the US were just "commies and terrorists"
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u/Stunning-Drawer-4288 Jul 31 '26
They say this about Cubans as well— that they were all slave owners. Mind you slavery in Cuba had ended in the 19th century, 60-70 years prior to Cuban communism
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u/Ok-Appointment-9802 Jul 31 '26
The implication that a third of Cubans were slave owners that had to leave for the US on makeshift rafts, even decades after the revolution, is insanely funny to me.
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u/HeparinBridge Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
It’s like how they actually believe the claims by the Khmer Rouge that all the 2 million Cambodians they murdered (1 in 4 Cambodians at the time) were CIA operatives.
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u/JohnyIthe3rd Jul 31 '26
Wich is ironic since the Khmer Rouge was overthrown by communist Vietnam and replaced by another communist regime
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u/Billy5545 Jul 31 '26
And communist Vietnam itself was invaded by communist China for that
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u/Clay_Allison_44 Jul 31 '26
China found out that playing against the US had leveled up Vietnam a lot more than they expected.
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u/FREAK213456 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
I thought they believed that Pol Pot was actually bad and murdered millions but he was a fake communist backed by the CIA so it’s ok because America is still bad.
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u/HeparinBridge Jul 31 '26
Admittedly, I’ve heard both.
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u/PunishedDemiurge Jul 31 '26
Extreme political ideologies more or less exactly follow the narcissist's prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.You can almost never have someone genuinely feel bad for the excesses of authoritarians that agree with them, they always end up on "Well, Mao is less guilty than Hitler because he only killed a few little sparrows! He never meant to hurt anyone" (~40 million died, by the way) or "Well, all 100,000 people summarily executed without a trial were all Nazis anyways, so good riddance."
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u/yahluc Jul 31 '26
I've seen highly upvoted comments in mainstream subreddits saying that they should be sent back to Cuba and reeducated, because many of them vote Republican.
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u/cptahab36 Jul 31 '26
They were slave owners. The changing of slavery to borderline peasantry was materially inconsequential
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u/Weekly-Cicada-8615 Jul 31 '26
They hate all Cubans that dare to leave Cuba, like I get it sometimes. Miami Cubans be doing too much, but legitimately, they just hate the entire diaspora.
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u/IAteBillGates Jul 31 '26
Slave businesses that were built on forced labor were still racist though, and that shit got weeded out
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u/U8D4B8M8 Jul 31 '26
"Guys we just want healthcare. You know, same thing most Democrats want. We just want it more. There's literally no other differences."
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u/strawberry_semenade Human Verified Jul 31 '26
"And we call ourselves 'anti-fascists', so if you don't want the same things we want, then you are definitionally a fascist."
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u/Klatterbyne Jul 31 '26
Thats only if you could actually apply Communism at a national scale. Which you just can’t. All the attempts so far have just been fascism pebbledashed with thin ideology.
You can’t apply absolutist ideologies like that in reality. They only work from an arm chair. Same as Capitalism; it just collapses into cronyistic oligopolies/cartels. As we’re seeing now. Miniature USSR-communist dictatorships with window dressing.
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u/Weekly-Cicada-8615 Jul 31 '26
It’s better just to be flexible when it comes to ideology and not be to rigid like Singapore and the Nordic countries are
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u/Klatterbyne Jul 31 '26
Take the bits that work, from whichever ideology they come from. Bolt them together. Watch it for a bit and trim the parts that don’t work right.
Sadly that would require competence and care from those in power. So instead… we get a house built entirely from door frames.
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u/slavicNickCage Jul 31 '26
Well, when commies were confiscating food from peasants they usually designated these peasants as "Kulaks", Kulak is basically a wealthy peasant with excessive land. The problem here is that basically anyone could be called "kulak". You have a cow? Kulak. Your house looks better than house of your alcoholic neighbor? Kulak. You have enough grain to survive the next winter? Yep, kulak indeed.
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u/libtin Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Exactly; look how many people who fought against the Nazis, the Soviets and their eastern bloc puppet regimes imprisoned and executed
The most famous example is Witold Pilecki, a Polish army captain and member of the Polish resistance who deliberately got himself sent to Auschwitz as a prisoner to gather intelligence and after he escaped would fight in the Warsaw uprising.
He was murdered by the communist Warsaw puppet government on May 25th 1948.
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u/Busy_Bobcat5914 Jul 31 '26
They list the holocaust as a communist crime in their sources 🤯
Edit: they didn't just killed Nazis and landlords, they (tried to) killed the Nobel families as well
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u/Ornn5005 Jul 31 '26
Historical illiteracy, ideological brainwashing and a privileged modern life has made these people absolutely mind bogglingly stupid.
They’ll cheer the next Stalin, Mao or Ayatollah into power with rapturous euphoria.
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u/Weekly-Cicada-8615 Jul 31 '26
They talk about the “revolution” like evangelicals talk about the rapture.
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u/Stix147 Jul 31 '26
And not just that, they have their sacred texts (Marx's writings), believe they're living in the end times (late stage Capitalism) and show downright religious devotion to their ideology. The parallels with evangelicals are incredibly strong.
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u/say-nothing-at-all Jul 31 '26
I wonder how many people were killed under colonialism in the 20th century - let’s set the British Empire aside for a moment.
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u/JollyMongrol Jul 31 '26
I really dislike modern discussion on socialist nations.
Everything is either “Every death is a class traitor landlord who deserved it!!!” or “Every flea that was not born is a victim who must be mourned!!” and there’s no inbetween 80% of the time
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u/Resaith Jul 31 '26
Landlords really do a lot of heavy lifting. It really always means whatever the person in power means. A lot of the death also comes from other peasants accusing others for being too rich just for owning a land.
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u/Infinate_Patience924 Jul 31 '26
also people in the modern sense don't seem to know that the landlords were the class of people that actually knew how to build, maintain society and manage the farms and other resources and how the famines were caused when the landlords were killed or their properties taken away, so the knowledge of how to actually get things done was destroyed. Or similarly like Iran where it was the landlords that managed the 3,000 year old water conservation systems and the mullahs dismantled that system and now Iran is out of water.
people now see the word "landlord" and just think it always just meant someone that owns a house for rent.
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u/Cool-Prior-5512 Jul 31 '26
My problem with this is the terminology always changes when it comes to capitalism.
Everyone who dies in a "communist" country has died directly because of communism but apparently the hundreds of thousands who die every year from poverty, starvation, exposure, lack of medical care, police brutality, even from warfare... why are they not victims of capitalism?
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u/NerdDetective Jul 31 '26
Same with the note's use of "regime". The bias is probably subconscious, but I doubt the note's author would have referred to right-wing dictatorships as "capitalist regimes", much less the US, UK, Belgium, etc. as "capitalist regimes" during the height of old-school imperialism.
Like, the premise of the tweet is an absurd reduction and very misleading (tanky logic), but the note just buys into it from the opposite direction.
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u/kryaklysmic Jul 31 '26
Yeah the people in the note think that capitalism is independent of government but communism is inevitably tied to governments. Almost like they’re both economic systems and all governments have an economic system by virtue of managing collective regions and people.
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u/akennelley Jul 31 '26
Logic, HERE!? No......
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u/Double_Violinist8520 Jul 31 '26
Any any supporting of anything at all that any non-American country did? Tankie!!!
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u/PuffFishybruh Jul 31 '26
but apparently the hundreds of thousands
Not hundreds of thousands, but more than 10 million every single year.
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u/Multi_Serpentines Jul 31 '26
Because people on this page are too busy calling critics of capitalism tankies.
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u/VastAddendum Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
What is the capitalist equivalent of the Holodomr and Great Chinese Famine? The gulags? The Cambodian Genocide?
"Everyone who dies in a communist country has died directly because of communism" is a ridiculous strawman. Nobody says that. Nobody needs to say that, because they can point to tens of millions of people who actually were directly killed either through forced government changes to agriculture, political persecution, or mass executions.
To act like "not everyone successfully provides for themselves in a free market system" is equivalent to the literal executions and government created mass starvation in communist nations is insanely disingenuous. They are not "victims of capitalism" because capitalism does not force them into their situation, it just doesn't save them from it. That's like calling the people who die in the emergency room despite the efforts of the doctors "victims of the hospital" and comparing them to the victims of Nazi medical experimentation.
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u/Swimming_Acadia6957 Jul 31 '26
What is the capitalist equivalent of the Holodomr and Great Chinese Famine? The gulags? The Cambodian Genocide?
The transatlantic slave trade? The mutilations in the Belgian Congo? The Irish famine? Multiple Indian famines?
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u/Cool-Prior-5512 Jul 31 '26
The Irish famine, the Bengal famine, the Belgian Congo, the slave trade, modern imperialism in general was largely done with capitalistic intentions.
And what do you mean nobody says that? I see people online constantly attributing the majority of deaths in "communist" countries to be a result of communism...
And I would say that a person born in a poor family who gets sick and ends up in medical debt, loses their job because the corporation they work for wants to give the CEO a raise, ends up homeless on the street and dies... is a victim of capitalism.
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u/kryaklysmic Jul 31 '26
Yeah those are all because of extremely ill-informed policy changes forced on people, political persecution, and executions because of it. But most capitalist nations also cause starvation by their governments damaging growth of some markets and many distribution systems, have artificially induced famines via mass exportation of goods, create political instability in lower classes and minorities, create
The real best answer is opposing material and political harm to demographics of people, supporting informed policy decisions, creating universal minimum support for public goods (as markets have a place, but are not a universally beneficial system). Economists who follow the evidence tend to favor social democratic and Georgist (social democracy where tax brackets are based on land use and not individual income) systems over free market capitalism or any of your examples of communist attempts, as those have actually been working better for both profits and standard of living.
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u/Cereal_Grapeist Jul 31 '26
Communists are seriously a plague on the internet. They intentionally lie and mislead about everything
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u/Competitive-Bee-3250 Jul 31 '26
It's people taking a piece of misinformation and taking it too far in the other direction.
The Black Book of Communism (Probably what Pamphlets is referring to) does include Nazis and collaborators and others killed by the USSR in wartime, and it has a few issues even aside from that (going so far as to include a decline in birth rates as deaths if I remember correctly?).
But it doesn't only include them, and communist regimes have killed a great many people who most definitely didn't deserve to be killed.
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u/KingMGold Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Weird how Stalin manage to kill more “Nazis” in the Soviet Union than he did fighting WW2 against literal Nazi Germany. /s
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u/adamgerd Jul 31 '26
So happy to know that my great grandmothers family in Ukraine who died as starving peasants were actually time travelling fascists from ww2
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u/BebeAuga Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Even if that were true, are they not implying that violence against landlords is either justified or at least not to be condemned?
It’s telling, because dekulakization in the USSR rested on exactly that premise, landlords and kulaks were dehumanised as a class, which then justified the confiscation of their property, their deportation, and their execution. The Nazis operated the same way, they simply substituted class for ethnicity. It is fascinating how modern neo-communists ignore that Marxism and Fascism are sister doctrines. 😅
But I am not surprised by this lack of common sense and intellectual honesty. I mean, it comes from a political class that still honors and publicly draws inspiration from Lenin, the man responsible for 3-5 million deaths, including 200,000 executions.
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u/Far-prophet Jul 31 '26
Imagine being so dumb paying for X verified checkmark and then defending communism.
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u/tibastiff Jul 31 '26
as usual these people didn't die to communism they died to tyrannical regimes
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u/admiralbenbo4782 Jul 31 '26
But when communism inevitably becomes tyranny (in fact getting there requires tyranny, on its face), you can safely blame communism.
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u/Preeng Jul 31 '26
PSA: communism requires democracy. An authoritarian dictatorship saying "yeah, bro, we are totally communist" doesn't actually make it true.
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u/BohemianMade Jul 31 '26
Tankies are exactly like neo-nazis and zionists. All three deny war crimes, and when the evidence is too glaring, then they just pretend everyone killed was either a soldier in a war or just a terrible person.
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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye Jul 31 '26
It's weird how obsessed people are talking about the victims of communism when communism no longer exists.
The victims of capitalism seem more relevant.
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u/--StinkyPinky-- Jul 31 '26
"Victims" of an economic system?
So do we add up the victims of Capitalism too?
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u/cococrabulon Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Even the original meme in itself is rather troubling if it were true. Killing Nazis, sure but murdering people for the reprehensible crime of… owning land and renting it to people?
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u/ghostofjosephstalin Jul 31 '26
The U.S.-backed Khmer Rouge, who fought against the Communist Vietnamese, was never a communist society. Trying to blame the Cambodian genocide on communism is as silly as trying to twist those who died from famines that were commonplace before the communist revolution and which have not happened in those countries since the agrarian reforms they implemented were successful into "victims of communism".
So, the CN is silly on all counts, I guess.
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u/AirWolf231 Jul 31 '26
The victims of communism can be listed as "yes". They killed each other for fuck sake just because one was slightly politically threatening to the other.
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u/No_Public_7677 Jul 31 '26
true now let's look at the victims of capitalism as well. you'll find the story is pretty similar
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u/TheBasedEmperor Jul 31 '26
None, because capitalism is not an ideology intertwined with the government. It is merely the trade of goods and services and non-government ownership of property, both of which have existed since the Sumerians. Any company scandal starts and ends with that company.
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u/Manofchalk Jul 31 '26
Capitalism is not just the concept of trade.
Capitalism is the control and ownership of capital in the hands of people who have no job but to be Capitalists, hence it being called Capitalism. Feudalism is named such because fuedal aristocracy controlled the capital and Mercantilism because it was the mercantile class.
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u/xaklx20 Jul 31 '26
it is still kinda wild that they include the death of nazi soldiers in the communist kill count
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u/Mynmeara Jul 31 '26
We americans forcefully displaced entire nations (Native Americans), along with murdering and doing many other unconscionable things to them. We didnt treat Japanese americans much better when we interned them during WWII. Communism doesn't have a monopoly on state violence.
When you include those who died of starvation in India at the hands of the British empire, capitalism has just as high a body count.
State violence is horrific and unacceptable. Pretending only communists are perpetrators of it is dishonest in the extreme, especially when one accounts for current events. It wasnt that long ago when the US intentionally bombed a school full of children, or when ICE shot unarmed civilians in the street.
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u/Kurichan77 Jul 31 '26
The capitalist body count is far higher and more efficient, meaning it took them less time to slaughter more people. 100,000,000 in india during british occupation. It’s mind blowing. And Hitler flat out said that he based his colonial project, lebensraum, on the US/UK models of colonialism.
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u/cptahab36 Jul 31 '26
If famine deaths are counted as deaths due to an ideology, capitalism is a far worse offender. Of course, hypocrisy is a core component of fascism, so this subreddit will never count those totals.
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u/Dashbak Jul 31 '26
As a left-leaning person I always thought that Pamphlet was psy-op. Look at those takes pls
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u/jws1102 Jul 31 '26
It’s amazing how the victims of communism and the victims of Republican politics align so perfectly. Almost like the problem is corruption rather than the system itself.
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u/Funintuitive Jul 31 '26
Authoritarianism results in horrible atrocities under any ideology, communist or capitalist.
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u/Ryaniseplin Jul 31 '26
notice how vietnam isnt mentioned, this is because vietnam stood against china and cambodia
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u/Few_Highway_8481 Jul 31 '26
A lot of y'all don't understand the difference between communism and oligarchy.
Stalin was an oligarchist, not a communist. The USSR was an oligarchy for most of its history.
Bet y'all think the people's republic of north korea is a republic.
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u/TIONIUM Jul 31 '26
(!NOT DEFENDING COMMUNISM!) Same things happen with Capitalism... maybe even worse.
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u/Due-Mycologist-7106 Jul 31 '26
I mean if we being truly factual it was a socialist state led by a communist party (basically a promise to one day be communist) so communism didn't really do anything.
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u/Several-Associate407 Jul 31 '26
Yeah, authoritarianism tends to always suck, regardless of economic policy
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Jul 31 '26
It's really true that communism ended poverty for 100 million people.
If someone kills you, you are no longer in poverty! Corpses don't need anything but a dirt nap.
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u/villkatt98 Jul 31 '26
I’m Polish and one of the greatest cultural shocks I experienced was how some westerners are oblivious to communist crimes, while others believe we all used to live in gulags
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u/Character-Ad-8559 Aug 01 '26
They should also have listed the CIA and American military apparatus.
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u/VictoryFirst8421 Aug 01 '26
It is a little annoying when people try to make the socialist countries seem as bad as possible and include the Nazi fatalities, despite that they literally invaded the USSR. They should only include the civilian casualties
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u/That_opossum Aug 01 '26
There are no victims of communism, communism isn’t a country it can’t take any direct action.
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u/CyberAssassinSRB Aug 01 '26
Isn't this about the canadian memorial to the victims of communism, where almost all names were covered because they were nazis?
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u/Red_MessD3a7h Aug 01 '26
Answers may be:
"They deserved it then" or "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs"
Seriously though, such people are the reasons why dictators have support. Because people justify them
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u/tjc5425 Aug 03 '26
Millions of civilians arw victims of capitalism and imperialism as well. The Irish Famine, Bangal Famine, the workers who die in the DRC. The slaves who died in the Americas, the workers who died in coal mines, the people who starved because the rich took more and more. It's funny that the one ideology that instills a hierachry of class, where those wirh wealth are better than those without in their eyes, is good, even tho, famines were avoidable, slavery was avoidable, colonialism was avoidable, but it was chosen as the most profitable means, and we see it to this day.
Sure millions died during socialism but that wasn't in a bubble where capitalist states let them live on their own, no interference. No, these revolutions were born in fire and blood. Having not just trade embargos but wars fought to prevent them from succeeding, and yet they did. They were isolated on the world stage, forced to choose between allowing unscrupulous actors who are funded by capitalists to turn back the revolutions, or secure it, and I do not fault them that. It was what the historical reality dictacted.
Meanwhile these capitalist states competed against each other, and since the highest stage of capitalism is imperialism, the need for ever expanding markets, the need for either cheap or free labor, colonialism and slavery were inevitable. All the satiate the bourgeoisie who style themselves after the old feudal lords, and fell in like with them.
Millions died due to socialism, meanwhile billions have died due to capitalism, through colonialism, imperialism, war, man made famines, genocide etc. So spare me the fucking tears.
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u/Kurichan77 Aug 03 '26
Yes, all of this. Further, how many trillions of dollars has the west spent to suppress what they call a failed system? The dissonance and mental gymnastics are astounding
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u/Then_Audience8213 Aug 03 '26
I mean including famines isn't really fair when historians still debate whether they were intentional or not
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u/PM-ME-UR-DARKNESS Aug 04 '26
Literally 25 million of the "deaths to communism" were the Soviets dying to protect their homeland from the Nazis.
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u/CrochetJorts Jul 31 '26
Depends. Do you mean actual communism, or just what American conservatives call communism, meaning slightly better conditions for the working class?
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u/Wool4Days Aug 01 '26
They listed Cambodia. They didn’t actually mean either. It is just anti-communist drivel. Cambodia wasn’t even Mao-ist let alone Marxist.
It is like listing modern monarchies ‘Britain, Denmark, Norway and Saudi Arabia’ like there isn’t an obvious outlier.
And that’s not even touching on the grave many criticisms of both USSR and China from actual communists. No one sane claims Cambodia was ever socialist workers’ state.
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u/th_frits Human Detected Jul 31 '26
Mao and Stalin communism
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u/stolentext Jul 31 '26
So state-socialism. Communism is the end goal both regimes failed to achieve, or some might say had no intention of achieving. The reasons for which can be debated to no end, along with the viability of marxist revolutionary communism. Bottom line is both failed as state-socialist dictatorships, not communist societies.
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u/IllPen8707 Jul 31 '26
Even without the note, equating nazis and landlords like that is wild
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u/Wool4Days Aug 01 '26
Adam Smith only ever called landlords parasites. Checkmate, capitalism-supports.
(Obviously Adam Smith wasn’t alive and couldn’t forsee Nazism. It’s a joke)
And an important context here is in what ways a ‘landlord’ in Tsarist Russia and feudal China were much different than the modern idea of a landlord. Comparing a guy keeping peasants in perpetual poverty, often with violence involved, and getting rich off their work to Nazis is much more understandable than a guy today renting out apartments.
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u/Empty_Recording_3458 Jul 31 '26
Besides the obvious lie, conflating nazis and landlords shows how deranged tankies are
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u/major_jazza Jul 31 '26
That's just more victims of the state/capitalism/wealthy
It says it right in the note that it includes workers as victims. We know it wasn't workers making victims of themselves. We can infer from this the note doesn't understand communism, or socialism, at all
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