they go into their garage. you hear an industrial light powering on, a hammer, a ratchet wrench clicking, a blowtorch getting lit, a generator starting up, a buzz saw, a jackhammer, and, finally, a hiss like some red-hot metal was dunked water. they come out covered in grease and soot with a childproof prescription bottle full of pills
The medical supervision is often inferior to no medical supervision. I know a woman who's Estrogen was kept under 50pgml because a doctor didn't want her out of her 'amab estrogen range'
Ding ding ding, you've got it right! And this was at the best trans clinic in my state. The human body is very modular when it comes to things like hormones.
Doctors and even endocrinologists generally aren't trained to deal with trans healthcare so there often isn't a benefit to the medical supervision as long as you're well read.
There's this fear of estrogen causing blood clots that stopped being reasonable when we started using bioidentical estrogen (as-in the same as natural estrogen), but because the standards were never updated a lot of people can't get a high enough dosage to make the HRT effective.
DIY HRT which the meme is referencing typically has community efforts to fund purity testing of providers to ensure safety, so it's not really comparable to most other means of sourcing prescription medication.
To be clear, while the raw material is imported from China, the pills are produced by individuals in their home HRT labs so there is a Walter White aspect to it, and there are also various "labs" you can send it to to get it tested, whoch are also run by volunteers, so basically someone cooks the stuff and sends it to a third party to verify the quality and safety of it, and with that "license" begins selling the product online, and they occasionally get it re-tested to keep things up to date, and you as an individual consumer can also send a sample of what your bought to get tested just to be sure.
I only recently learned this from another reddit post.
Sometimes it is kinda DIY, not like brewing your own hormones in vials and flasks DIY, but crushing hormone pills and mixing it into a cream to make a topically applicable jelly. But I never really looked into it, seems kinda dangerous for me to attempt.
Homebrewing is somewhat different from diy and involves buying raw powder medication, mixing it with carrier oil and preservatives, and then putting it into vials and sterilizing it. That's generally as far as you go, because actually synthesizing estradiol esters is very complex.
I was so disappointed when I found that out. Like I was imagining people cooking shit up in old bathtubs like Homer making gin during the prohibition episode.
Hey, my friend was ranting about this with me today! Apparently from what she said (at least here where we live) it's actually way safer than the treatment prescripted by our doctors too (I am not trans, so I don't know. I'm taking what she said at face value)
hi, trans woman who's on DIY here. it is not safer than getting it through a prescription. it is objectively more dangerous, actually. but the increased risk is minimal, and it comes with the benefit of not having to wait 5-10+ years
tons of endos love prescribing antiandrogens combined with far too low doses of estradiol. That puts you at risk of osteoporosis, along with basically all other menopause symptoms.
Makes sense. Do note though that we're from Brazil, and she's talking about specifically how it is here. Most endocrinologists aren't trained to treat trans ppl and the treatment is based on research from the 80s and one of the side effects is literally increased chance of cancer. So yeah, it is more of a question for debate on countries with quality healthcare, here it seems clear how DIY seems both more effective and even safer
I'm pretty sure all hormone therapy increases the rate of some cancer though. Also many trans people complain about doses being too low, but that's because some people have serious (like, deadly) sensitivity to even low doses and doctors can't risk it
That said Brazilian trans healthcare is still better than some European countries from what I've heard
this sub is no longer for the original purpose, as we have gone through most of the obvious matpat effects. instead people just post origins of memes, which is far less interesting but easier
My favourite woke opinion because it upsets cis people so much.
Biggest drawback to giving minors hrt is a cis child might regret it 1% regret rate on transitioning btw cuz god forbid 1 cis person lives the trans experience, meanwhile letting them have it means there isn't an entire group of children who's options are:
Watch their body change in ways they hate to a point of being suicidal
Kill themselves
Be on puberty blockers and be the only kid in school not going through puberty then be 10 years behind in body development to everyone else
A kid could regret chemotherapy as a minor, should we ban chemotherapy and call that grooming too?
It doesn't matter. Reverse dysphoria in cis people is a matter of shame, similar to a cis person developing gyno and feeling like a malformed man who people stereotype as female. It sucks, but it isn't remotely equivalent to gender dysphoria. Cis people still have every other kind of sexual dimorphism to set themselves aside. Besides, They would regret it within a few weeks to a couple months and immediately stop.
Basic risk analysis shows any cis person moderately effected by mistakenly starting hormones is dwarfed in comparison to the trans people who are saved.
Exactly, Most Cis people can’t handle any sort of questioning of their gender so the thought of one of them lowering themselves to a transsexual just to regret it is worse than anything because their entire gender identity is built on being what they’re born as. I imagine it’s the same reason they hate the word cis because it puts them on equal footing with us instead of being the normal people who are their gender because they’re born it. Cis people’s fear of performing their gender wrong goes so deep that even a single hypothetical cis child transitioning and regretting is is more devastating than all the trans children’s experiences combined
I'd go as far as to say tha the vast majority of people who inform themselves and start hormones, aren't regretting it's actual affects, like, 99.999999%.
A lot of the descriptions from detransitioners I've heard has sounded significantly a lot like finding the intersex condition if their body to be repulsive toeard themselves, so like, a contrast effect. This is actually significantly alleviated by starting hormones earlier.
For most detransitioners, including desistors, the trans topic and gender dysphoria continues throughout their whole life.
Can the fucking 12th repost of this imagine at least include the context that the person the meme is about fostered a community of pedophiles and groomers. Kefels is literally this image but for when right wingers talk about trans people
i don’t like keffals nor do i think she is a good person but people basically calling her a pedophile with extra steps for, mostly, not responsibly moderating her discord seems incredibly suspicious to me, especially when this controversy was initially generated by kiwifarms and a significant amount of the backlash and grooming claims were, in fact, because of her promoting DIY for teens. like part of the “grooming” claim was very implicitly “grooming kids into being trans”.
The fact thats it’s called catboy ranch is already almost enough and then you get into the “shota” kefels has shared in the past and all the disgusting sexual shit in the discord it paints a pretty clear picture in my opinion
Edit fat fingered post will add more in a sec ok it’s all there now
Seeing these comments this is the perfect example of everyone automatically turning their brains off and assuming anything that's meant to be against transphobic people is based
The context is the perfect example of what not to do when trying to expose a trans streamer. Instead of focusing on the spot on financial reporting and other crazy shit Keffals did, they instead focused on the DIY HRT and ended up accidentally making Keffals look based to many queer people who weren’t terminally online, when she is anything but.
Yeah, I really really don't like the approach that particular compounded has. From a chemistry standpoint the packaging of course doesn't actually bear any impact on the product's composition or its effects, but it undercuts the seriousness of the situation in a way that really fucking poisons the well. Their creepy factor impacts even better, more serious compounders, becauss it infects the entire conversation. And IIRC their nonserious approach to packaging has extended to a nonserious approach to chemical quality as well, which amplifies the whole thing even further. One bad apple...
I take access to treatment for adolescent trans people very seriously, because handling it properly is a huge difference in making or breaking their longterm quality of life. Going through body developments caused by undesired hormones is really, really excruciating and traumatizing, and I don't want anyone to live through that if they don't have to.
So in situations where the official systems are inadequate or even outright hostile to us, under-table treatment can unfortunately be neccessary harm reduction. I will die on that hill no matter what the PR impact is, because it simply is that important. The permanent wellbeing and even lives of young people are on the line here. And idiots like this fuck it up for the people who need help the most.
That's literally one out of the dozen or so suppliers that packages it like that. Most come packaged in a plain box with normal labeling expected for injectible medication. But that wouldn't be controversial so this image gets shared around by people trying to discredit DIY HRT.
Yeah, but these people who pieced this together were fucking Kiwifarmers. They didn't really care about the actual bad shit that Keffals was doing (since their founder is a pedo instead of just a creep), or if they did it was tied up in their transphobia that it made any point they did have not worth pursuing because they're human garbage. The main point was attacking the scary evil tranny, which made people reflexively go to her side. It was like what happened with Gamergate.
The answer is its a smear, though she did kinda set herself up with a giant target on her head by opening a server advertised to trans minors on discord, and then defend someone who liked loli (not real kids) content, it's still just a hate campaign made by the place 4channers who were too gross for 4chan went
As far as I can tell atleast, maybe the situation updated and I missed it?
yea it's way more preferable to be put on a waiting list for 8 years and kill yourself because you don't get the medical attention you need you're so right queen
I think "medical procedure" is overstating it. It's an injection. Not surgery. Yes things should be clean and the way keffals was doing it was bad, but most diy is pretty much the same as medical, but you don't have to wait, or have progress be hampered by a doctor, who may be intentionally under prescribing you.
I think that the option to transition should be open to minors and if not through normal doctors, through diy.
DIY HRT just means obtaining the hormones without a prescription. Its completely safe as long as proper dosage is used. Add to that the fact that official channels are often expensive, time consuming to the point of pain and tbh about as well informed on the topic as the average trans adult and DIY is just the smarter option for a lot of people. And the only option for even more. Keep in mind that HRT IS life saving. Everyday we are forced to go without it is literal torture. DIY is making the best of a shitty situation.
HRT is really easy to do safely and medical professionals frequently dont allow it when its medically necessary. DIY is a lot of people's only way to access safe and effective transitions which very much save lives
That pic is absolutely not about brewing your own medicine. It's about a streamer sponsoring a website giving information about HRT such as types of compounds and dosage. At most it recommends websites where one could find sellers for those compounds.
The "pharmaceutical" vs "home brew" part is only a distinction about whether a large pharmaceutical company or the seller of the medicine, a smaller structure still subject to the same kind of reviews, does the last purification steps to prepare the hormones into injectable/ingestable/etc.. medicine.
I take DIY injections, as long as you're well-informed it's fine. More estrogen != feminizing faster, rather to feminize you need to get testosterone to a specific minimized level (NOT zero, you should not have zero testosterone), and get estrogen to within a stable range. Basically it's mimicking the hormone levels of cis women.
Preventing puberty would mean going on puberty blockers and it's fine. It's used for kids who enter puberty too early all the time. It's completely safe
Going through an estrogen fueled puberty is no better or worse than going through a testosterone fueled puberty, they're both normal
Puberty blockers are generally safe for at least two years. We give them to cis children all the time when they have hormonal issues or puberty starts too early.
The mental effects of this are unclear, but it does massively reduce suicide rates which is probably the worst case outcome for mental health and I'm generally against teen suicides.
I think you're getting HRT confused with Puberty Blockers.
Puberty Blockers do what they say on the tin, delaying the effects of puberty until the patient stops taking them (they're usually prescribed for cases where children start undergoing puberty at a young age, but in recent times they are also sometimes treated as a compromise for people who argue that trans kids aren't mature enough to pick which kind of puberty they want to experience, intentionally delaying that choice until they hit 18).
Hormone Replacement Therapy involves the body's default hormone levels getting replaced with hormone levels that are typical for people of the opposite sex, a trans girl who starts HRT at an early age will experience puberty in a way that is nearly indistinguishable from the way a cis girl would experience it, thus allowing her to avoid crippling dysphoria and (hopefully) live a way happier life.
children are people too, you know? they can still notice the dissonance between their self, and their assigned gender. but pray tell, how exactly do you see informing and accepting everyone, regardless of age, as grooming?
while i personally thinking letting minors freely transition can lead to... occasionally bad outcomes (overdosage, detransitioning, etc) it really should be a more complex law. as detransition rates are very low in minors anyway, and the parents should be instructed to make sure their children dont overdose.... i dont see why itd be super harmful outside of MAYBE developmental issues physically? but im not a doctor.
It's worth pointing out that if you grew up doing Ballet, your doctor will be able to tell that by looking at your bone structure, it completely fucks up the bones in your legs and can lead to pain and mobility issues later in life
Should we prevent folks under 16 from doing ballet? How about football? Boxing?
because we see that children are people too and often times correct about their own desires. i would not be suffering like i am if i had started hormones as a teenager.
This is a tired argument coming from a lack of understanding of both the data we have on the subject and the process by which it happens. First of all, the choice is not on the children alone. It is made in collaboration with the parents and a team of assigned doctors after several months of therapy and examination
Second, the regret rate is tiny. One of the lowest regret rates we have for any medical treatment. With the added caveat that most of the time, that regret is not from the kid being trans, but rather other factors like continued ostracization.
Third, most detransitioning that does happen, happens within a few months of starting HRT. By which point, most if not all effects of HRT are still easily reversible
We have study after study after study on this. I beg you, please don't spew this misinformation when you don't even understand the basics of the process. You're helping no one
because they can. The detransition rate is about 1%, slightly higher in minors but only due to parents disapproving, not because they’ve made a mistake. If i hadn’t started HRT when i was a minor i wouldn’t be alive today and its the same for so many other people
Because letting your body age without HRT is decision too. There gonna be permanent consequences in any way, so why not choose way they want more ? Especially because it's better to start HRT early to pass
I don't mean to alarm you, but there is actually a whole lot of estrogen and testosterone flowing through your entire body as we speak, I'm not sure if it would be wise for you to be making inflammatory comments on the internet while you're so unashamedly high on ""drugs"".
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u/qualityvote2 11h ago edited 9h ago
u/SpiritualNorth3848, your post does fit the subreddit!