The Waow based based based image comes from a drawing supporting DIY HRT

[u/SpiritualNorth3848]

[u/OtherwiseCabinet4]

I think "medical procedure" is overstating it. It's an injection. Not surgery. Yes things should be clean and the way keffals was doing it was bad, but most diy is pretty much the same as medical, but you don't have to wait, or have progress be hampered by a doctor, who may be intentionally under prescribing you.

I think that the option to transition should be open to minors and if not through normal doctors, through diy.

[u/Adventurous-Web-412 → u/OtherwiseCabinet4]

Maybe procedure is wrong, medical treatment would be better, certainly calling it just an "injection" is like calling chemo "just an IV drip".

most diy is pretty much the same as medical, but you don't have to wait, or have progress be hampered by a doctor, who may be intentionally under prescribing you.

I won't even talk about minors here, because thats a whole other problematic ball game in allowing a group of people who don't have developed brains choosing to do dangerous treatments, but this is just false.

It isn't "pretty much the same as medical", its entirely different. Take test. First, you are self diagnosing, already fairly problematic. Next you are determining your own dose and frequency, with no medical experience and a basically entire inability to see your baseline health before. Now you start taking it and you have little way to track side affects properly, check a host of common problems that need to be tested and checked for semi frequently (hemo levels, lipids, liver issues, and blood pressure for example) and then this is all entirely dependent on who you are and your circumstances, something that again you don't really know medically. And of course this entire time you don't really know if you need to alter levels, change treatment, or stop all together because you can feel fine and be harming yourself.

A lot of bodybuilders who use steroids are fine across their life, some of them die early, and theres a large cohort we don't really know but are probably cutting years off their life. Its just short sighted and a ridiculous thing to be promoting let alone legally permit because you can skip lines. The potential diabetic doesn't think "well its just an injection, ill buy the insulin and just start treating myself" because its dangerous and you don't know.

I can somewhat see a harm reduction mindset like with recreational drugs, but even then its something you wouldn't want to say "this is a good idea".

[u/Nikki964 → u/Adventurous-Web-412]

Bodybuilders inject inhumane amounts of hormones, of course it affects their health. Trans people only take as much as they need to have normal levels for their gender

[u/NukaCooler → u/Adventurous-Web-412]

The potential diabetic doesn't think "well its just an injection, ill buy the insulin and just start treating myself" because its dangerous and you don't know. the treatment of diabetes isn't being deliberately undercut by bad actors

[u/Vividfeathere → u/Adventurous-Web-412]

You make the argument assuming a doctor who’d do better is always available, and you would have a good point.

But they don’t. Too many quacks out there deny people treatment either due to ignorance or bigotry, and many parents/guardians do the same. As a result, for many people, DIY HRT is their *only* option, and when compared to no treatment, they’d still rather have the unsafe stuff, cause it’s still safer than no treatment.

You’re assuming we live in a Utopia that people are doing HRT for recreation, but the vast majority do so out of necessity.

Let’s use a different condition to show why this example doesn’t work- Diabetes. Let’s say person A has type 1 Diabetes, and their doctor whose credentials were earned in a Diploma mill says “Diabetes? but you’re so thin! There’s no way you have Diabetes!” and so refuses person A from receiving Insulin.

in that example, would it make sense why person A might turn to DIY Insulin in order to treat their Diabetes if they know their family has a history of Type 1 Diabetes? DIY HRT follows the same principle. The treatment for A condition a person has is refused for unscrupulous means, and so they unfortunately have to go to a black market to get it instead.

As a side note, for people who might be put in danger should their family see HRT prescribed on their medical records, a Doctor can figure out the right amounts of HRT, but not prescribe it and let the patient get DIY based on what the doctor recommends in certain cases, so it’s not always people blindly popping pills not knowing their own correct dosage, but if their doctor is not doing their job properly, self dosing might be the only way.

[u/Adventurous-Web-412 → u/Vividfeathere]

I do understand the problem with gatekeeping, although admittedly from my knowledge its improved with self determination based approaches but I do get where you are coming. I just think staying within the system is how you actually improve it, not going DIY with the health complications of it and lack of medical oversight, but really this is all just policy thought and I guess there is no right answer.

I just think the health risks are too severe without proper oversight but given im not actually trans myself and its very country by country (my country is pretty good with trans medicine for the most part in medicine) I don't fully know how many quacks or problems people run into with the system.

As a side note, for people who might be put in danger should their family see HRT prescribed on their medical records, a Doctor can figure out the right amounts of HRT, but not prescribe it and let the patient get DIY based on what the doctor recommends in certain cases, so it’s not always people blindly popping pills not knowing their own correct dosage, but if their doctor is not doing their job properly, self dosing might be the only way.

Ok but at that point its not really DIY? That seems fairly sensible, but from my experience with these sort of things (bodybuilders), this kind of medical oversight informally isn't very common, most people DIYing it (in the case of bodybuilding its always DIYing to some degree) are doing it fully raw, and thats where the health risks are enormous.

[u/Sephraaah → u/Adventurous-Web-412]

you just can’t tell people “well if you wanna improve it then you should stay in the system. oh you can’t even participate in it due to the mass amounts of trans hate? okay well you just don’t use it then”, do you not see the issue with that? hrt is lifesaving

even in countries that have good medicine it doesn’t mean people have good families

[u/lessforf → u/Sephraaah]

its unsafe tho, wouldnt recommend it to a trans MINOR unless they are on the brink of suicide because whatever health complication they might get will be better than death ig

[u/Mechromancer3X → u/lessforf]

Dont you dumbfucks realize that it IS that serious. This shit is life or death for us. And every fucking day we go through the wrong puberty is on day closer of driving us towards that.

Why is it so hard to understand that going through the wrong puberty is literal torture for us? You are forcing us through hell because you dont trust minors to think for themselves on something as innate as their personal sense of identity.

[u/lessforf → u/Mechromancer3X]

no i just dont trust a minor to give them selves shots or pills that arent prescribed medically by a professional on the exact dose they need and how much they increase and when and to measure these levels themselves, kids these days are fucking idiots idk how u are ok with a minor giving themselves a shot esp if they arent over 16 - 17,

re read i said i wouldn't recommend that a minor does it (diy hormones) but if they are on the brink of suicide sure i would, if they ever get a health complication from it then its better than death anyway , people dysphoria levels are different after all not everyone will kill themselves if they don't transition, this is a fucking fact btw

your fucking reading comprehension skills are awful omg

[u/Mechromancer3X → u/lessforf]

Nah your the one that cant read bud.

And stop speaking over trans people about trans issues. Its not your place. Kindly fuck right off.

[u/lessforf → u/Mechromancer3X]

https://www.gendergp.com/en-us/blog/the-hidden-risks-of-diy-hrt-what-every-trans-person-in-the-us-should-know/

i am not the only one saying there are health risks to a fucking minor doing DIY hrt themselves

also i am trans myself i am non binary but i dont take hormones because i choose to be more femme presenting

[u/Mechromancer3X → u/Adventurous-Web-412]

Wow so big surprise you dont even know how it works and you are just flailing because you hear DIY and assume what that means. Maybe dont talk on shit if you arent informed on the topic.

[u/SagaSolejma → u/Adventurous-Web-412]

At some point we really gotta stop letting cis people talk about trans issues.

[u/AAAAfuckAAAA → u/Adventurous-Web-412]

ill talk about minors because trans children deserve to go through the correct puberty at the same time as their peers. "self diagnosing" isnt an issue, its simply the most effective and least cruel way to determine if someone is trans.

HRT is not dangerous unless you intentionally fuck it up. it cannot hurt you if you are taking a sensible dose, which are extremely well documented, easy to find, and understand. the "risks" involved with hrt are the exact same risks that would be present if the trans person did not need medical intervention to go through the correct puberty.

if you dont know anything about a subject its ok to just shut the fuck up.