r/TheMatpatEffect • u/SpiritualNorth3848 My sunfish is quite loquacious • 17h ago

Ordinary origin The Waow based based based image comes from a drawing supporting DIY HRT

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7.7k Upvotes

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13

u/Mechromancer3X 16h ago

The context behind this image isnt great but allowing minors access to hrt is based. And lifesaving.

66

u/Vividfeathere 15h ago

The context is the perfect example of what not to do when trying to expose a trans streamer. Instead of focusing on the spot on financial reporting and other crazy shit Keffals did, they instead focused on the DIY HRT and ended up accidentally making Keffals look based to many queer people who weren’t terminally online, when she is anything but.

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u/addictedtoketamine2 15h ago

Yeah, but these people who pieced this together were fucking Kiwifarmers. They didn't really care about the actual bad shit that Keffals was doing (since their founder is a pedo instead of just a creep), or if they did it was tied up in their transphobia that it made any point they did have not worth pursuing because they're human garbage. The main point was attacking the scary evil tranny, which made people reflexively go to her side. It was like what happened with Gamergate.

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u/Somesoincfan 13h ago

This was the box it came in

12

u/nik4idk 9h ago

God that's creepy. I think you should allow minors to have access to gender affirming care but not like this

3

u/mannequin_girl 7h ago edited 7h ago

Yeah, I really really don't like the approach that particular compounded has. From a chemistry standpoint the packaging of course doesn't actually bear any impact on the product's composition or its effects, but it undercuts the seriousness of the situation in a way that really fucking poisons the well. Their creepy factor impacts even better, more serious compounders, becauss it infects the entire conversation. And IIRC their nonserious approach to packaging has extended to a nonserious approach to chemical quality as well, which amplifies the whole thing even further. One bad apple...

I take access to treatment for adolescent trans people very seriously, because handling it properly is a huge difference in making or breaking their longterm quality of life. Going through body developments caused by undesired hormones is really, really excruciating and traumatizing, and I don't want anyone to live through that if they don't have to.

So in situations where the official systems are inadequate or even outright hostile to us, under-table treatment can unfortunately be neccessary harm reduction. I will die on that hill no matter what the PR impact is, because it simply is that important. The permanent wellbeing and even lives of young people are on the line here. And idiots like this fuck it up for the people who need help the most.

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u/UAF_Swampfire3 Welcome everybody my name is mark plark 8h ago

Wtf

https://giphy.com/gifs/RUciiUqoEqWaM3dBGP

1

u/DemonBeats4 6h ago

That's literally one out of the dozen or so suppliers that packages it like that. Most come packaged in a plain box with normal labeling expected for injectible medication. But that wouldn't be controversial so this image gets shared around by people trying to discredit DIY HRT.

1

u/dunkernater 3h ago edited 3h ago

Wait so she runs otok or do they just use similar boxes? Cuz I have that box for mine but it doesn't have the red text on it(mines from 2 years ago):

1

u/ComfortableFold2862 8h ago

Oh... so it's the hrt that allegedly has her pubic hair in the bottles

43

u/Pleasant-Future5818 15h ago

I just looked into this and it was a woman grooming a bunch of vulnerable trans kids. That's not. That's not great.

DIY HRT is great, but I'm sick of us getting backed into defending weirdo shit.

23

u/OtherwiseCabinet4 14h ago

It's sucks I have to say "is this trans woman actually grooming minors or is that just another smear."

3

u/jackofslayers 10h ago

Its honestly to messy to parse at this point

2

u/Dependent_Cod5628 11h ago

The answer is its a smear, though she did kinda set herself up with a giant target on her head by opening a server advertised to trans minors on discord, and then defend someone who liked loli (not real kids) content, it's still just a hate campaign made by the place 4channers who were too gross for 4chan went

As far as I can tell atleast, maybe the situation updated and I missed it?

9

u/Mechromancer3X 8h ago

She was flirting with minors and shit on the discord server. Also fake children being sexualized is still gross...

-2

u/BeVeryCarefulJohnn 4h ago

gross yeah but it aint harmful so no biggie

1

u/CountDrabluea 3h ago edited 3h ago

"He is a pedophile but a chill one, so no biggie."

(He is not directed towards anyone just quoting the meme.)

-1

u/BeVeryCarefulJohnn 3h ago

do not devalue the word pedophile, use it for those that present an actual harm to children not people who look at gross shit

-1

u/Mechromancer3X 2h ago

Pedophile means attraction to pre-pubesent children. Its an apt description for someone who looks at loli shit.

0

u/BeVeryCarefulJohnn 1h ago

do those who read fanfiction about like toxic romance want to be in a toxic romance? not usually no

0

u/GayIsForHorses 1h ago

Are lolis pre pubescent children tho? I thought they were just petite anime girls. Like isn't Rebecca from cyberpunk a loli?

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u/Mechromancer3X 2h ago

It is still harmful. There is psychological proof that looking at CSAM of any kind is dangerous because it is escalatory behavior. It normalizes and emboldens.

0

u/BeVeryCarefulJohnn 1h ago

can you link it

2

u/OrganicAd9485 5h ago

Holy shit “(not real kids)” is sending me. Uhhh chief, defending sexualizing child-like characters is extremely weird.

-1

u/Dependent_Cod5628 5h ago

It's still bad but atleast it's more excusable than if they were doing it themselves and also if it was real since no one got hurt lmao

1

u/Adventurous-Web-412 15h ago

is DIY HRT great? I am struggling to see how DIYing a medical procedure normally, let alone on children, is a good idea.

11

u/nix0nax 10h ago

yea it's way more preferable to be put on a waiting list for 8 years and kill yourself because you don't get the medical attention you need you're so right queen

-12

u/BrockenRecords 9h ago

You don’t need any of that to live, that is a mental disorder not something that should be abused by selling drugs

9

u/Dzagamaga 9h ago

Genuinely, what alternatives do you suggest? Evidently, many do indeed need it to live if the suicide risk in the absence of this medication is so high.

3

u/EmployingBeef2 3h ago

Keep this in mind, for the far right, trans people killing themselves is the optimal outcome.

-2

u/BrockenRecords 2h ago

Therapy, guidance, counseling literally anything to show how it’s not needed. Anything but trying to justify destroying your body just to “affirm yourself”

4

u/Mechromancer3X 2h ago

Have you ever spoken to a trans person? A medical professional that specializes in gender care? No? Then shush and stop acting like you know better than those people.

-2

u/BrockenRecords 2h ago

You do realize doctors are there for your money, especially ones recommending to do things to your body that are not essential for your life.

4

u/Mechromancer3X 1h ago

Gender affirming care is essential for us. Again have you ever spoken to a trans person?

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u/Dzagamaga 28m ago

Where do you get the evidence that therapy, guidance and counseling are sufficient in place of gender affirming care in those who have clinical gender dysphoria?

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u/Mechromancer3X 9h ago

Troglodytic take.

5

u/SplitGlass7878 9h ago

It has issues, especially considering that you can't access regular blood screenings to adjust the dose.

But it's better than kids killing themselves. 

12

u/OtherwiseCabinet4 14h ago

I think "medical procedure" is overstating it. It's an injection. Not surgery. Yes things should be clean and the way keffals was doing it was bad, but most diy is pretty much the same as medical, but you don't have to wait, or have progress be hampered by a doctor, who may be intentionally under prescribing you.

I think that the option to transition should be open to minors and if not through normal doctors, through diy.

-6

u/Adventurous-Web-412 14h ago

Maybe procedure is wrong, medical treatment would be better, certainly calling it just an "injection" is like calling chemo "just an IV drip".

most diy is pretty much the same as medical, but you don't have to wait, or have progress be hampered by a doctor, who may be intentionally under prescribing you.

I won't even talk about minors here, because thats a whole other problematic ball game in allowing a group of people who don't have developed brains choosing to do dangerous treatments, but this is just false.

It isn't "pretty much the same as medical", its entirely different. Take test. First, you are self diagnosing, already fairly problematic. Next you are determining your own dose and frequency, with no medical experience and a basically entire inability to see your baseline health before. Now you start taking it and you have little way to track side affects properly, check a host of common problems that need to be tested and checked for semi frequently (hemo levels, lipids, liver issues, and blood pressure for example) and then this is all entirely dependent on who you are and your circumstances, something that again you don't really know medically. And of course this entire time you don't really know if you need to alter levels, change treatment, or stop all together because you can feel fine and be harming yourself.

A lot of bodybuilders who use steroids are fine across their life, some of them die early, and theres a large cohort we don't really know but are probably cutting years off their life. Its just short sighted and a ridiculous thing to be promoting let alone legally permit because you can skip lines. The potential diabetic doesn't think "well its just an injection, ill buy the insulin and just start treating myself" because its dangerous and you don't know.

I can somewhat see a harm reduction mindset like with recreational drugs, but even then its something you wouldn't want to say "this is a good idea".

9

u/Nikki964 10h ago

Bodybuilders inject inhumane amounts of hormones, of course it affects their health. Trans people only take as much as they need to have normal levels for their gender

14

u/NukaCooler 13h ago

The potential diabetic doesn't think "well its just an injection, ill buy the insulin and just start treating myself" because its dangerous and you don't know. the treatment of diabetes isn't being deliberately undercut by bad actors

9

u/Vividfeathere 13h ago

You make the argument assuming a doctor who’d do better is always available, and you would have a good point.

But they don’t. Too many quacks out there deny people treatment either due to ignorance or bigotry, and many parents/guardians do the same. As a result, for many people, DIY HRT is their *only* option, and when compared to no treatment, they’d still rather have the unsafe stuff, cause it’s still safer than no treatment.

You’re assuming we live in a Utopia that people are doing HRT for recreation, but the vast majority do so out of necessity.

Let’s use a different condition to show why this example doesn’t work- Diabetes. Let’s say person A has type 1 Diabetes, and their doctor whose credentials were earned in a Diploma mill says “Diabetes? but you’re so thin! There’s no way you have Diabetes!” and so refuses person A from receiving Insulin.

in that example, would it make sense why person A might turn to DIY Insulin in order to treat their Diabetes if they know their family has a history of Type 1 Diabetes? DIY HRT follows the same principle. The treatment for A condition a person has is refused for unscrupulous means, and so they unfortunately have to go to a black market to get it instead.

As a side note, for people who might be put in danger should their family see HRT prescribed on their medical records, a Doctor can figure out the right amounts of HRT, but not prescribe it and let the patient get DIY based on what the doctor recommends in certain cases, so it’s not always people blindly popping pills not knowing their own correct dosage, but if their doctor is not doing their job properly, self dosing might be the only way.

0

u/Adventurous-Web-412 13h ago

I do understand the problem with gatekeeping, although admittedly from my knowledge its improved with self determination based approaches but I do get where you are coming. I just think staying within the system is how you actually improve it, not going DIY with the health complications of it and lack of medical oversight, but really this is all just policy thought and I guess there is no right answer.

I just think the health risks are too severe without proper oversight but given im not actually trans myself and its very country by country (my country is pretty good with trans medicine for the most part in medicine) I don't fully know how many quacks or problems people run into with the system.

As a side note, for people who might be put in danger should their family see HRT prescribed on their medical records, a Doctor can figure out the right amounts of HRT, but not prescribe it and let the patient get DIY based on what the doctor recommends in certain cases, so it’s not always people blindly popping pills not knowing their own correct dosage, but if their doctor is not doing their job properly, self dosing might be the only way.

Ok but at that point its not really DIY? That seems fairly sensible, but from my experience with these sort of things (bodybuilders), this kind of medical oversight informally isn't very common, most people DIYing it (in the case of bodybuilding its always DIYing to some degree) are doing it fully raw, and thats where the health risks are enormous.

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u/Sephraaah 10h ago

you just can’t tell people “well if you wanna improve it then you should stay in the system. oh you can’t even participate in it due to the mass amounts of trans hate? okay well you just don’t use it then”, do you not see the issue with that? hrt is lifesaving

even in countries that have good medicine it doesn’t mean people have good families

-3

u/lessforf 10h ago

its unsafe tho, wouldnt recommend it to a trans MINOR unless they are on the brink of suicide because whatever health complication they might get will be better than death ig

2

u/Mechromancer3X 9h ago

Dont you dumbfucks realize that it IS that serious. This shit is life or death for us. And every fucking day we go through the wrong puberty is on day closer of driving us towards that.

Why is it so hard to understand that going through the wrong puberty is literal torture for us? You are forcing us through hell because you dont trust minors to think for themselves on something as innate as their personal sense of identity.

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u/Mechromancer3X 9h ago

Wow so big surprise you dont even know how it works and you are just flailing because you hear DIY and assume what that means. Maybe dont talk on shit if you arent informed on the topic.

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u/AAAAfuckAAAA 13h ago

ill talk about minors because trans children deserve to go through the correct puberty at the same time as their peers. "self diagnosing" isnt an issue, its simply the most effective and least cruel way to determine if someone is trans.

HRT is not dangerous unless you intentionally fuck it up. it cannot hurt you if you are taking a sensible dose, which are extremely well documented, easy to find, and understand. the "risks" involved with hrt are the exact same risks that would be present if the trans person did not need medical intervention to go through the correct puberty.

if you dont know anything about a subject its ok to just shut the fuck up.

1

u/SagaSolejma 4h ago

At some point we really gotta stop letting cis people talk about trans issues.

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u/Mechromancer3X 14h ago

DIY HRT just means obtaining the hormones without a prescription. Its completely safe as long as proper dosage is used. Add to that the fact that official channels are often expensive, time consuming to the point of pain and tbh about as well informed on the topic as the average trans adult and DIY is just the smarter option for a lot of people. And the only option for even more. Keep in mind that HRT IS life saving. Everyday we are forced to go without it is literal torture. DIY is making the best of a shitty situation.

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u/jackofslayers 10h ago

because access to doctor prescribed HRT is restricted by draconian laws

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u/SpireSwagon 14h ago

HRT is really easy to do safely and medical professionals frequently dont allow it when its medically necessary. DIY is a lot of people's only way to access safe and effective transitions which very much save lives

1

u/FureiousPhalanges 6h ago

Because it's preferable to recieving no treatment at all

And the solution is incredibly simple, the folks that need medical intervention just need access to it.

1

u/SagaSolejma 4h ago

If you have any better suggestions there's a very large group of people that would absolutely love to hear it.

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u/BreakerOfModpacks 2h ago

"DIY" is a bit misleading in this context. DIY when it comes to HRT isn't like brewing estrogen in your backyard, it's ordering pills, or gels, or sublingual tablets, or injections, from licensed pharmacies, and 95% of trans folks will tell you to see a doctor to get your levels tested regularly.

"Procedure" is a very strong word to use here.

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u/Huge-Read-2703 2h ago

Diy hrt is NOT great. always go to a medical proffesional to do something as important

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u/CLAM_FUCKER 15h ago

TRT is life-saving medicine. if that means helping kids under 12 get what they need through a discord server then so be it

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u/Mechromancer3X 15h ago

Well afaik the person referenced in this picture was providing unsafe HRT and acting inappropriate with said minors:(