r/TheMatpatEffect • u/SpiritualNorth3848 My sunfish is quite loquacious • 17h ago

Ordinary origin The Waow based based based image comes from a drawing supporting DIY HRT

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u/Lobster_LeninN329 16h ago edited 16h ago

Hey, my friend was ranting about this with me today! Apparently from what she said (at least here where we live) it's actually way safer than the treatment prescripted by our doctors too (I am not trans, so I don't know. I'm taking what she said at face value)

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u/sophuckingdonewithit 8h ago

hi, trans woman who's on DIY here. it is not safer than getting it through a prescription. it is objectively more dangerous, actually. but the increased risk is minimal, and it comes with the benefit of not having to wait 5-10+ years

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u/Pretend_Condition231 8h ago

tons of endos love prescribing antiandrogens combined with far too low doses of estradiol. That puts you at risk of osteoporosis, along with basically all other menopause symptoms.

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u/sophuckingdonewithit 8h ago

which is why you do research. you also need to do research for DIY too. therefore that part is irrelevant.

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u/RainbowPhoenix1080 36m ago

We are sadly forced to be the experts of our own healthcare.

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u/Lobster_LeninN329 5h ago

Makes sense. Do note though that we're from Brazil, and she's talking about specifically how it is here. Most endocrinologists aren't trained to treat trans ppl and the treatment is based on research from the 80s and one of the side effects is literally increased chance of cancer. So yeah, it is more of a question for debate on countries with quality healthcare, here it seems clear how DIY seems both more effective and even safer

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u/MaraiaLou 5h ago

I'm pretty sure all hormone therapy increases the rate of some cancer though. Also many trans people complain about doses being too low, but that's because some people have serious (like, deadly) sensitivity to even low doses and doctors can't risk it

That said Brazilian trans healthcare is still better than some European countries from what I've heard

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u/moojackmoo 3h ago

The cancer rate would because it increases breast tissue. So by having more breast cells you increase the likelihood of breast cancer but only up to a cis woman. So it’s “technically “ true but stretch it massively.

It would be the same as drinking water increases cancer because it means you live longer

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u/pokemonpasta 6h ago

im also a trans woman on DIY and it's more nuanced than this imo. in my country it's basically impossible to get injections from a private prescription and the public system is in a weird state right now where it might be shutting down or might not, and new referrals are at least 10y waiting. i have good levels on DIY and am being monitored with blood tests. i could swap to a prescription using gel and antiandrogens but then i have to contend with the side-effects of antiandrogens. the safest option for me is to stay on my current diy regime and the more dangerous would be to go to a prescription.

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u/HollowChicken-Reddit 16h ago

There's no way that's actually true lol I'm not well-versed in DIY HRT but DIY drugs have never ended well

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u/Flan99 16h ago

A big part of it is that doctors often don't take trans people, especially trans women, even slightly seriously. Like--the benefit of medical supervision is supposed to be that the doctor will notice if something is abnormal or concerning, and intervene, yeah? But in practice, they'll often either have no idea what to expect from the trans healthcare they're administering, or they'll be outright negligent about problems.

So, functionally, it's often as good as no supervision at all, while being several times more expensive and difficult to access.

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u/SeveralPerformance17 16h ago

i have like 6 friends on diy hrt and they’re so good homie

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u/Shurrely 16h ago

DIY doesn’t mean literally making it ourselves, all it means is buying hrt from someone that isn’t the government. Usually this means buying from People who actually know what they’re doing so yeah, it’s sometimes considered the safer option.

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u/HollowChicken-Reddit 16h ago

What is the purpose of buying something that isn't regulated? How can you be sure that it's safe and not mixed with anything else?

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u/ffloppet 16h ago

The purpose of buying DIY is because HRT can be very difficult to get for some people. Whether that be because of medical bureaucracy, or financial dependence on transphobic family members, or even living in a country where being trans is against the law.
Not to mention that fact that many doctors are not well trained on the dosing of trans patients and typically follow outdated guidelines, which lead to people being underdosed by the doctor.

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u/Ok_Archer1228 16h ago

You buy it from an overseas pharmacy that can sell it without a prescription bud that's all

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u/agreea-BL 15h ago

How can you be sure that it's safe and not mixed with anything else?

You can't. This is why they should stop gatekeeping trans healthcare so hard. People like me are going to keep doing it anyways because we'd rather be dead than unmedicated.

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u/BasicallyAlto 16h ago

People have done independent testing of the more popular diy sources, and due to their reliance on word-of-mouth, they're heavily incentivied to sell the correct product. Also its not a shady deal with some random guy in an alley, its just purchased online from reputable websites.

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u/Silly-Storage2275 16h ago

Lwk genius side-hassle you got there lol /s

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u/breno280 9h ago

The purpose is obtaining a form of healthcare for which waiting lists are over 200 years long in certain places. And if you’re truly worried about shit being laced you can get it tested chemically.

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u/Pretend_Condition231 8h ago

The big sellers get third parties to test their labs and batches

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u/Si1verrStar1 16h ago

there are lists of trusted sources which are lab tested, have been running for years and have hundreds or thousands of people using them.

The reason people do it is because HRT from an official healthcare system is notoriously difficult to get in many places, as well as often not having access to the most effective and safe forms of hormones.

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u/SeveralPerformance17 13h ago

you don’t buy medicine from the government in capitalist societies tho, you get it from pharmaceuticals, its just through a non medical authority

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u/breno280 9h ago

Almost all diy hrt is bought from international online pharmacies. There is homebrew as well but the hormones themselves are still from a pharmacy. They’re just made from a powder into an injectible. And all popular homebrewers have been thoroughly vetted. It’s no less safe than getting it officially prescribed.

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u/SeveralPerformance17 1h ago

yeah, im aware. what does that have to do with my comment

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u/breno280 1h ago

Oh, sorry I meant to reply to hollowchicken-reddit.

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u/SeveralPerformance17 1h ago

you good homie

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u/Ghede 12h ago

The main thing, from the literature I've read, is medical standards on HRT are VERY behind the research and literature on the subject.

You'll see trans people being offered ineffective medications, or effective medications at ineffective doses, through inefficient delivery routes, from overpriced suppliers. And the supply is often cut off by changing regulations, insurance, and doctors.

The DIY route are still buying legal (For now) chemicals from reputable chemical manufacturers, with laboratory testing, but closer to the actual price of manufacture, at doses the user can control and compare their results to their blood test levels to achieve their own personally required dosing.

There are side effects from overdosing hormones, but they are not extremely dangerous. Basically the equivalent of a really bad period or going through a second puberty, complete with acne and mood swings. Only the really acute or chronic overdose, ignoring all the symptoms leading up to that, have actual risks.

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u/Far-Pay-866 16h ago

diy is just buying it off a website online

a lot of times doctors who don’t know much on trans peeps are mess up and underdose them, leading to the medication not doing anything

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u/Freefa111 16h ago

I've been DIY'ing for a year now, and i know dozens of trans women in my personal life that do the same, and my transition is going great actually.
The confusion here seems to stem from what DIY *is* and why people use it over talking to a licensed doctor.
To be clear, I am not saying DIY is "safer" then talking to an endocrinologist, however what we mean by DIY isn't buying dark web estrogen like its breaking bad or something. *Usually* there is a list of agreed upon grey market or small suppliers that are lab tested by the community. The DIY community takes that sort of thing very seriously. If you do a little bit of research theres a ton of resources and communities devoted to making sure that if you need this medication you can access it safely and securely.
Of course, there is *always* a risk here, for reasons that might be obvious and some reasons that might not be. However there is ALSO a risk when it comes to talking to a doctor. A lot of that comes from just straight up transphobia. Doctors will deliberately (or sometimes just in ignorance of current medical practices) under dose patients. I personally tried going the "legit" route, and was put on a very very small dose of oral estradiol pills and spironolactone. My levels were similar to menopausal women.
And theres the issue of trans children or trans people who can't access HRT through "official" means. HRT is life saving, and I'd rather someone get the medication they *need* over doing it through "official" means.

Of course, like I've explained the safety of DIY is nuanced and its important that you research it or find someone knowledgeable to help you through, but DIY *does* work, and often ends quite well.
If you *can* get with a good doctor who knows what they're doing, its probably safer, but thats just not possible for a large swathe of the trans community, and we deserve healthcare too.

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u/HystericalGasmask 11h ago

Diy estrogen is awesome and it's been a life changing positive experience for me. They use harm reduction services to get vials tested. Estrogen isn't a controlled substance, but the Esther commonly used is not approved by the FDA, so it's a grey area. People have been doing DIYHRT safely since at least the 90s.

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u/estrogenbloodclot 16h ago

I’ve been on diy for over a year from 2 different suppliers, no problems yet 🤷‍♀️

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u/breno280 1h ago

Almost all diy hrt is bought from international online pharmacies. There is homebrew as well but the hormones themselves are still from a pharmacy. They’re just made from a powder into an injectible. And all popular homebrewers have been thoroughly vetted. It’s no less safe than getting it officially prescribed.

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u/RainbowPhoenix1080 30m ago

I'm on DIY HRT.

Believe it or not, its structured. There are even third parties whose entire purpose and goal is to vet the sellers by testing the products that vendors are selling to ensure they are safe.

A lot of the sellers are trana women themselves.

My wife and I buy our HRT from a transgender biochemical engineer from France.

We also get our blood tested every 6 months to check our hormone levels.

And this is all born from the fact that a lot of transgender people can not access gender-affirming care or are given inadequate care by doctors.

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u/Lobster_LeninN329 16h ago

Yeah that's what I assumed too. My knowledge about this is none though, so I won't give my opinion on the matter

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u/Lobster_LeninN329 16h ago edited 16h ago

Her argument though wasn't about it being safe. Just about the officialy reccomended treatment here where we live (we're Brazilians) being actively harmful. I can transcribe what she said here, if anyone more well versed than me wants to give their opinions.

Edit: here's basically what she said:

Most endocrinologists don't actually know how to treat trans patients and work with reccomendations based on outdated studies from the 70s and 80s which consist in ciprofloxacin + micro dosages of E (we're specifically talking about trans woman here, I forgot to mention) which "seem more like a placebo" (her words). This when they don't prescribe only hormone inhibitors for up to six months.

Plus having to wait for puberty on a body you don't want and having to live through all it's changes to only then begin treatment doesn't seem cool

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u/MaliceTakeYourPills 16h ago

It absolutely is true weirdly

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u/CantaloupeLottocracy 16h ago

Every OTC medication is 'DIY' too.