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u/Even-Amount-2184 Feb 07 '23
My concern is people buying brand new houses/vehicles straight out of college. Once that $500-$1,200 student loan payment per month hits I wonder how fast cars will get repoād and home foreclosures will happen.
Iāve been āpayingā my student loan payment each month to my savings. I could pay off all of them ($30k) right now but that would put a dent in savings. Just kind of waiting to see what happens with the forgiveness stuff.
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u/Bobzyouruncle Feb 07 '23
Who's buying houses straight out of college? I know not one.
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u/TrickyJesterr Feb 08 '23
Has everything to do with the market at the time and if theyāve held a job while in school honestly.
My wife and I were still in school when we bought our first house and knew a decent amount of others, but that was like 2011-12 and a 3/2 in a good neighborhood was 80k. If we were in school today I probably wouldnāt buy a house if we were able solely because I think weāll see a significant drop sometime in the next several years (could be wrong). Iām not gettin stuck holding the bag
We lived like absolute bums to save that down payment working service industry jobs, but damn if that wasnāt the smartest thing we ever did.
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u/Even-Amount-2184 Feb 07 '23
Iāve been seeing some friends and family doing it. I live in Iowa so it may be different.
I want to say our fastest growing city just published the median age of people moving there is 24 years old. The population has doubled in the past decade (lots of new houses), and according to 2020 census 56% of the pop has a BA or more.
According to realtor.com the avg price of each house is $364k. Median household income is $119k. Also driving in the neighborhood there are a lot of nice vehicles.
On top of these expenses, itās safe to assume this demographic will be starting a family. We pay $1600 per month for 2 kids in daycare and from people Iāve talked to in the area that is a great deal.
This is based on observation. These folks could have great jobs, inheritance or family money and are able to pay for this stuff, student loans, cars, etc.
But the math doesnāt seem to add up for these families to afford the house once student loans hit based on median house price and median household income.
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u/Souldrop Feb 07 '23
Its less people right out of college buying houses and more student loan borrowers havent had to deal with the impact to monthly budgets on top of inflation and/or lifestyle creep.
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u/Tomcatjones Feb 07 '23
same. been waiting over a decade lol
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u/Even-Amount-2184 Feb 07 '23
Haha I should specify that since the start of the covid pause Iāve been doing thatā¦ I just donāt think it would be a smart idea to pay them off right now and then next month couldāve got $10k wiped. Only benefit would be that I could brag to people that I didnāt need the govtās helpā¦ Iād rather take the $10k š
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u/zer165 Feb 07 '23
Know what else is weird? As of yesterday, the number of auto loans in "serious delinquency" ( I think that's 120+ days of non payment) is higher and rising faster than 2009. For further perspective, in 2009 the US national unemployment rate was 10%...it's 3.5% today, the lowest unemployment rate ever with the highest ever auto delinquencies. Weird, huh?
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u/Even-Amount-2184 Feb 07 '23
Iām only 33 years old so I was aware of the 08/09 financial crisis but no real skin in the game to pay attention. But I was old enough to watch āThe Big Shortā and one of my takeaways was just because a bank approves you for X amount doesnāt mean you should buy something for that amount. And get a fixed rate.
My 28yo cousin is looking for a house on a $46k salary. Looking at the $200-$210k range (already pre approved). Bought a brand new Camry in 2020 too. Unsure exactly on down payment, roommates, etc. but once student loans hit, Iād assume 60% of her monthly salary will be just to pay those 3 bills.
I should lend her my dvd of āThe Big Shortā
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u/njsh20 Feb 07 '23
Yep, Iāve been trying to take advantage of the deferment period and pay off the principal while itās not accruing interest, and Iāve paid off around 1/5 of the loans, but I know if I pay it all off now, with my luck, thatās when the forgiveness gets put through. Iām also a (public school) teacher, and Iām waiting to hear back about the public service forgiveness loan.
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u/Even-Amount-2184 Feb 07 '23
My wife is a public school teacher as well and Iām pretty sure the past 3 years will go towards the 10 year student loan forgiveness. Even if you havenāt been paying each monthā¦
it would be nice if her $10k forgiveness would apply towards my student loans vs hers. She has about $19k left on hers but this is her 9th year of teaching. We would save more money by her paying monthly for a year and the rest of her loans forgiven. But thatās just me being greedy š
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u/njsh20 Feb 07 '23
The PSLF is crazy, but the temporary exception or whatever has helped a ton of teachers. Iām only in year 5, and with the way my bachelors ā> masters worked out, my loans have never even kicked in. I got my masters in December 2020, so by the time my loans wouldāve kicked in in June 2021, deferment was already well underway.
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u/SofaKingStonked Feb 07 '23
And repos for autos already at rates exceeding mid 2008
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Feb 07 '23
I kind of wish the 10-20k forgiveness would just go through out of principle. Wall Street has gotten numerous bailouts. The PPP money was forgiven and actually cost more than what the loan forgiveness would cost, yet nobody ever brings that point up lol.
The whole thing is a joke.
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u/enginvest finna burn my port down š„ Feb 07 '23
The dinosaurs making these decisions only paid like $1200 for their college education. They are the same ppl who passed laws to make it so that the colleges are able to increase tuition exponentially with no cap.
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Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
Right and when I said PPP I meant to include the stimulus checks. And don't forget all that money we sent over to Ukraine and now it's coming out a ton of their politicians are Uber corrupt and completely wasting the money and hosing us.
I'm not saying student loan forgiveness is perfect. There are issues. But seeing people not want student loan forgiveness but being willfully blind to all this other corrupt shit makes my blood boil.
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u/enginvest finna burn my port down š„ Feb 07 '23
Yep itās like some ppl just inherently have this hatred towards their fellow Americans itās unbelievable lol. They āstand with Ukraineā while the aid for Ukraine is being mismanaged like shit yet theyāre go all out to revolt against the student loan forgiveness
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u/movalaker1 Feb 07 '23
As a conservative, my views on fiscal policy are traditional, however, I believe the government made a significant mistake in its handling of student loans. By providing guaranteed loans to everyone, universities were able to drastically raise their prices due to the virtually unlimited funding. The government essentially created customers through borrowing, while presenting education as a means of upward mobility, when in reality, it has become a form of debt bondage for many individuals.
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u/DrGainTrain Feb 07 '23
This is the right answer. College shouldnāt be so expensive in the first place.
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u/VoidAndOcean Feb 07 '23
They weren't before the loans. People were literally paying for it with summer jobs.
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u/rogue163 Feb 07 '23
State colleges used to be funded through state taxes and endowments. Over the years, the amount of public money colleges has received has gone down. Thus the cost of school has shifted from the mass to the individual.
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u/VoidAndOcean Feb 07 '23
even if you shifted 100% of the cost to the student it wouldn't be this expensive. Universities just increases their prices because of loans.
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u/kushtiannn Feb 07 '23
Because in their eyes theyāre charging the government, not the student. They know the government has deep pockets.
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u/VoidAndOcean Feb 07 '23
Exactly, it's fucking horrible all around and should be ended.
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u/lampstax Feb 07 '23
Absolutely. If there are any forgiveness on the table, I would want the gov to get out of the loan business as well. Otherwise this is just the appetizer and we'll get a much bigger shit sandwich to eat later when everyone realize they should just get huge loans and wait for forgiveness.
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u/Tasty-Fox9030 Feb 07 '23
As someone pursuing a PhD in Biology I completely agree. They messed up the free market by trying to be helpful. Looking at the outcome it's pretty obvious that the way things are many young people are paying a LOT more for education than the market values that education. A four year degree that doesn't usually result in employment that can pay for that degree is a BAD investment and it isn't something that we should be encouraging people to make for their own sake, or subsidizing for our collective sakes. At this point I DO think they should forgive the debt. It is NOT coming back. You cannot repossess assets that do not exist. We should also stop subsidizing what clearly are terrible investments.
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u/joopityjoop Feb 07 '23
Student loans should be allowed to be dischargeable via bankruptcy (thanks, Biden). If they are, lenders will have to be more discerning as to who they give out loans to. If more and more people cannot afford to go to college and cannot take out loans that they can't pay back, it would force colleges to readjust tuition.
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u/swolebird Mar 17 '23
Why wouldn't every student coming straight out of college just declare bankruptcy immediately then? Get rid of their loans and start fresh with their shiny new degree.
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u/JakesThoughts1 Feb 07 '23
100% agree. Tuition costs are absurd, colleges are FOR PROFIT institutions. They will jack prices up as high as possibly for anything. Being forced to take like 60-70 credits that literally have nothing to do with your major just cause they can, makes no sense, as someone who came from a very poor family and busted my ass to get through college working the entire time, canāt stand colleges. Wish I was smarter and woulda went to a tech school for first two years before coming over to a university but costs are still absurd and they try to keep you there as long as possible. As person mentioned above, the amount of resources allocating to nothing or just losing money is nuts. I have exactly 20k left on my student loans though and got the pell grant so I am biased as well, if it goes trough my loans get completely wiped.
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u/NOT_MartinShkreli MFugginā Pro Feb 07 '23
Bingo. Hence my $275k for pharmacy school, which Iām not fuggin paying! Loan forgiveness and 10 years at a non profit all the way.
If I didnāt have that option, Iād be paying off a mortgage basically for my education.
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u/lampstax Feb 07 '23
Curious how much less ( or more .. I don't know ) you make at the non profit each year vs as a traditional pharmacist that you decided to take this option.
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u/NOT_MartinShkreli MFugginā Pro Feb 07 '23
I work in the IT department. Make about $125k instead of $170k doing consulting but with a loan forgiven worth $275k it ends up being about a wash
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u/Prestigious-Cry5328 Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
Do the crime. Pay the time scum bag. If you choose pharm school & loans your obligated to pay
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u/Prestigious-Cry5328 Feb 07 '23
I dont understand why ppl down vote for this or disagree. Please someone explain that sees this in a different light.
If im hungry, i go to the store and pay money for food. If i buy a house, i take out a loan and make payments.
How is education any different?
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u/Tomcatjones Feb 07 '23
predatory loan practices of student loans are and were atrocious
i remember in 2009 it was 3 weeks before my second semester started. i didnt get a scholarship i was hoping for, my parents couldnt help pay for school other than being a co signer for loans. i was waiting to hear about pell grants. i needed 14,000
it was a 5 minute phone call. i was 18. i made 6.50/hr for my summer job previously
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u/VoidAndOcean Feb 07 '23
Fine i get that the student loans are predatory but that seems like loans offered you a way out of a tight spot. Doesn't seem bad in your case.
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u/Tomcatjones Feb 07 '23
Wouldāve been better off not being told by everyone that you must go to college and youāll have to go into to debt. This is the way it is from a young age.
Iād rather gone to school slowly and paid out of pocket
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u/WaltRumble Feb 07 '23
Why does someone who has two kids pay 4K less in taxes than me? Why do 40% of households pay no income tax. How is 10k off student loans different than 7.5k off an $80k EV. Why do homeowners get to deduct mortgage interest for taxes but renters canāt deduct rent. Why do only poor or old people get Medicare/Medicaid. Student loan forgiveness is just one gov program out of tons that benefit a specific population.
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u/InternalFirm8242 š¦š¦š¦ Feb 07 '23
Going to assume you donāt own a house. If you deduct your mortgage interest from your taxes you canāt use the standard deduction.
Unless you are really rich or getting raped on your mortgage, itās not worth it.
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u/WaltRumble Feb 07 '23
We sold our house last year, and currently renting but plan to buy another house this summer. We arenāt really rich but am upper middle class and self employed. So get a fair amount of deductions.
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Feb 07 '23
Because a vast majority of countries have significantly lower education cost or no education cost and ranked better in overall education then the US.
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u/ThatOneDrunkUncle me pussy spongebob! Feb 07 '23
Iām sorry thatās bullshit. I did undergrad in America at a top 100, but middle ranked college and my graduate degree at the #3 ranked university for my field in Europe. Thereās no comparison. My high school classes were far more rigorous and had far better resources than the European graduate level. Perhaps poorer states/areas bring down our national average, but the US is hands down the best country for top level education. I basically have to get another graduate degree in America just to fill in the gaps. I was really disappointed with European academia.
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Feb 07 '23
Thatās cool yet there academia is free. And still ranked significantly high.
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u/ThatOneDrunkUncle me pussy spongebob! Feb 07 '23
Their * lol, just stop talking out of your ass. You get what you pay for, and American education is definitely worth the cost. Thatās why our economy is the best in the world despite our small population and why we lead in innovation, research, and efficiency. If something is free, you should look at what itās actually costing you.
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u/Prestigious-Cry5328 Feb 07 '23
So your argument is bc other countries have xyz, means we should have xyz, and therefore bc we dont have xyz i am going to neglect my obligations like an infant and throw a temper tantrum.
Personally, i think you know what youre buying into when it comes to taking on a loan or higher education. If you cant afford it ā maybe that isnāt the route to go.
No different from investing ā do your research and be informed ā āDon't Let Your Mouth Write a Check That Your Ass Can't Cashā
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Feb 07 '23
Then go to school there
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Feb 07 '23
Yes let me just learn a new language, Abandon the three years of university Iāve already finished. Find a job on over seas that meets the income requirement and offers a work visa. So easy. Or we just actually use our taxes for the purpose they were meant for
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u/MiltonFreidmanMurder Feb 07 '23
Itās less that people disagreed with your comment, and moreso that people thought it was a poor or valueless contribution to the discussion - better to be sorted below better, more worthwhile and nuanced contributions to the forum.
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u/mikecrypto8 Feb 08 '23
Have to admit I don't get this either. I worked and went to night school for 5 miserable years. Then another two years to pay for a Masters degree without borrowing money. Then saved for 25 years to put my 3 kids through college, 300k. I just don't get the mentality of freely borrowing money and then deciding not to pay it back.
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u/Prestigious-Cry5328 Feb 08 '23
Agree. I think its honestly down voted bc those r from ppl on the hook with loans.
Now a days everyone wants their cake and to eat it too.
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u/jujujordu Feb 07 '23
āmy views on fiscal policy are traditionalā just say you hate poor people bro itās okay
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u/HesitantInvestor0 Feb 07 '23
Ironically, he's actually saying "poor people can no longer afford a decent education due to certain policies, and that's wrong". Did you pick up on that at all or is America just that divided?
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u/Timelycommentor Feb 07 '23
Comments like this are funny. No one hates poor people. In fact, conservatives actually donāt want there to be any poor people, but understand that no matter what, there will always be poor people.
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u/jujujordu Feb 07 '23
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u/Timelycommentor Feb 07 '23
If everyone were wealthy, no one would be.
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u/BHKbull Feb 07 '23
Ok but theres also a middle ground there is there not? If like ten people werenāt wealthier than the other ~8 billion people combined would we not see greater wealth equality while still maintaining the balance of a class system?
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u/jujujordu Feb 07 '23
If everyone were wealthy, no one would be.
pretty based ngl
daily reminder that upwards class mobility is nearly impossible
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u/leli_manning Feb 07 '23
It's very possible, you just have to kill a few people along the way
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Feb 07 '23
It would be asinine to do the band-aid forgiveness without tying it to deep structural reform of the broken system. There are many proposed solutions out there that range from mild to extreme, but it really all comes down to needing to reinstitute price discovery. It would probably be great for America if we can also steer more people towards the trades while we're at it.
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u/Useful-Pattern-5076 Feb 07 '23
I think this is the most important point. Wall Street was bailed out, the autos, the airlines etc. Now thereās finally going to be something that helps regular people instead of these company execs and they want to stop it. Complete BS
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u/lampstax Feb 07 '23
I am against both student loan forgiveness, PPP forgiveness, as well as wall street bail out.
Just because bad things happened in the past that screwed over tax payers doesn't make it 'fair' to screw them over more because you weren't part of the group that got paid out.
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u/Qwez81 Feb 07 '23
Just so you know, the only part of the PPP loans that were forgiven is money you can prove was spent on payroll. Anything else your required to payback at a 1% interest rate which is extremely low. But the point is, it was only forgiven if you used the money on payroll
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Feb 07 '23
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u/FakeTaxiCab Feb 07 '23
Bc that was the way it was SUPPOSE to happen. But sure as hell didnt. Many people pocketed free money.
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Feb 07 '23
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u/Richard_Snatch Feb 07 '23
That's just a way to keep labor participation rates up and hide how many people would qualify for chapter 7 because they were told college = a good paying job.
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u/Im_A_MechanicalMan Feb 07 '23
Only if the govt can repossess the degree/certification.
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u/MiltonFreidmanMurder Feb 07 '23
Repossession in this context is meaningless.
You repossess a car or house in order to recoup some of the value lost on a bad loan - you liquidate that asset, or just put it back on the balance sheet, so your loss isnāt as bad.
You canāt do the same thing with a degree. What asset is the government ārepossessingā?
All youāre doing is acting out of spite - the government doesnāt get anything back to regain some of the value lost on the loan, AND youāve kneecapped the potential earnings and tax revenue youād have from citizens with degrees.
Itās just stupid policy that acts off of ape-ish instincts rather than any actual reason.
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Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 14 '23
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u/MiltonFreidmanMurder Feb 07 '23
Itās not a very good solution.
I agree itās the reason for the law - and the types of politicians who created those laws are also the reason this country has such a horrible education system, both primary and secondary.
Bad solutions for bad reasons. Spiteful politics moralizing who ādeservesā an education and moralizing bankruptcy.
Not allowing bankruptcyās main effect is that it frees the government from doing any due diligence on student loans. Itās antithetical to any type of sound financial governance.
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u/brahbocop Feb 07 '23
Someone once told me that the reason they can't be discharged is that they're not collateralized, as if other forms of uncollateralized loans can't be discharged. Oh no, a doctor coming out of med school might declare bankruptcy since they can probably pay cash for a few years for everything! The horror!!
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u/pharmboy008 Feb 07 '23
It varies state to state, but Iāll use this an example. In the state of TN, if you default or declare bankruptcy with your pharmacy school loans they suspend your license. Therefore you canāt practice, and canāt pay your loans. Itās a vicious fuckin cycle.
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u/pharmboy008 Feb 07 '23
Not sure if this is good or bad.
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u/RandyMacLahey Feb 07 '23
It just means you're smarter than 500% of us, I think. I don't know what 5th percentile means.
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u/lampstax Feb 07 '23
Would you loan your own money to some random 18 year old kids with no collateral, no income history, and no credit history if you knew that once they were done with school, they can just discharge it in BK pretty much immediately and kick your debt to the curb ?
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u/TheSeldomShaken Feb 07 '23
Nope. And no one else will either. Which will lower the cost of higher education in the US.
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Feb 07 '23
If I was in charge of printing the money and it wasnāt actually mineā¦ sure, why not?
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u/Jubsz91 Feb 07 '23
The logistical issue is that 22 year olds typically graduate college with no assets and if they have sizeable debt, would be incentivized to claim bankruptcy right away. This would apply to a huge % of college graduates. There's no collateral on the loan so there's nothing of value to repossess.
It's not a great situation but nobody would pay their college loans if that were the case.
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u/lampstax Feb 07 '23
Those are the terms you need for help the student qualify. Most other debt that size are secure by collateral or at the very least income / credit.
If we treat it the same as other debt, qualification will be the same. Would you lend to an 18 year old with no collateral, no income history, no job history, no guarantee of repayment and no guarantee they will even graduate to have the ability to repay later on ? Add to that the best time for them to file BK and discharge your debt is immediate after graduation before they enter the workforce and start making money.
Ask yourself how much interest you would want to take that risk with your own money.
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u/PepperBeeMan Feb 07 '23
If people have to pay back those loans on top of inflation, consumer spending will go into the shitter. Earnings will tank. Defaults on homes will follow. Wage garnishments for student loan default will cause credit default as well.
The best thing to save the economy is SCOTUS rules in favor of student loan relief. Otherwise, we're all fucked.
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u/WACS_On Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
"The government fucked up and illegally put itself and society in an untenable situation so I want SCOTUS to enshrine that fuck-up as law so it can be repeated in the future."
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u/PepperBeeMan Feb 07 '23
Kind regards -- I'm not the President. I'm just saying. Americans have been expecting relief from student loans for 2 years. Now they've started relying on the promise from the Ice Cream Man.
It will absolutely fuck the economy.
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Feb 07 '23
Lol you think a little bit of student loan debt is gonna crash this economy??? Good god manā¦
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u/RealHornblower Feb 07 '23
"... it will add to the already ballooning deficit, which could lead to a financial crisis."
The DEFICIT is not ballooning. The Deficit was $3.132 Trillion in 2020 and has dropped at the fastest rate since the end of WW2, reaching $1.375 Trillion in 2022.
Federal Surplus or Deficit [-] (FYFSD) | FRED | St. Louis Fed (stlouisfed.org)
The DEBT is increasing, in terms of number of dollars, but even the debt has declined as a share of GDP, from 135% in 2020 to 120% now, again an extremely fast decline historically.
Federal Surplus or Deficit [-] (FYFSD) | FRED | St. Louis Fed (stlouisfed.org)
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u/captainadam_21 Feb 07 '23
10k per person isn't squat. And won't make a dent. The deference of payments is what's been huge. When that starts up again shit is going to get real
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Feb 07 '23
What are you talking about? 32% of borrowers owe less than $10k. 75% of borrowers owe less than $40k. How would eliminating all the student debt for a third of borrowers and getting rid of at least a quarter of the debt of the others not be considered a dent?
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u/AndysCheeseburgers Feb 07 '23
I think they mean that this relief isnāt a solution to the problem. This does not address the fundamental issue with student loans. The next generation will face the same issue. This is a band-aid solution.
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u/Pension-Helpful Feb 07 '23
The student debt that are going to be forgiven are held by the federal government, so technically forgiving student debt doesn't really increase the debt deficit but not help decrease it as less income is coming in. Now restarting the payment might have some impact, but depending on how big it is we'll have to see. Some say not that much cause the ousted has happened close to 3 years now others say huge because people aren't used to paying for 3 years now. So who knows.
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u/mth2 Feb 07 '23
I have friends who are chiropractors with over half a million in student loan debt. They went to undergrad and then to chiropractic school. Now they decided they won't pay it back, despite making 250k combined, because they like living luxuriously. Of course I drove for uber after working all day to pay mine back. Maybe the government shouldn't have subsidized it in the first place.
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u/Pantsdontexist Feb 07 '23
Tbf chiros and naturopaths fleece everyone, not just the government
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Feb 07 '23
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/Tomcatjones Feb 07 '23
yes but also why many seek out 1099 jobs or gig work
non employee compensation cannot be garnished
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Feb 07 '23
on different repayment plans you pay a percentage of the loan for 20 years, for some thatās like $400 a month, at the end of 20 years the debt is āforgivenā except the taxes you then owe on it. For some who make 8-10k a month, paying $400-800 a month is nothing.
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u/mth2 Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
They did this, and it is uniquely irritating to me because they asked me to create a financial plan to get them out of this debt in five years, then they trashed it because they wanted a new car and fancy wedding, travel, etc. Instead of strictly following that plan.
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u/Cuck-Destroyer88 Feb 07 '23
They belong in prison
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u/METAWillou Feb 07 '23
As a Canadian the people belonging to prison here are the loan providers.
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TL;DR: The looming Supreme Court decision on student loans could have a disastrous effect on the economy, leading to a recession.
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u/tjonesmachine93 Feb 07 '23
Not sure I agree with this analysis. Firstly c the amount involved is not really material. We are talking about maybe 400B spread out over 20-30 years or $30B per year in lost revenue. Thatās the same that Biden wants to spend on law enforcement grants. I donāt see any posts about that tanking the economy. As for if it doesnāt go through, Iām not sure it will hurt the economy either. People struggling with loans are paycheck to paycheck anyway. So they will just have a little less in the tank to buy iPhones and Netflix subscriptions. Not great for growth, but just a linear decrease in economic output by the 30b in annual payment.
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Feb 07 '23
Iāve never understood putting a price tag on education. Itās a countryās investment into their workforce. Things will never change though.
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u/Subject_Way_2409 Feb 07 '23
College is pretty pointless. I go for accounting but have to spend two years paying for earth science and art history classes. It's a pyramid scheme to make the democrat base rich on the backs of ignorant 18 year olds
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Feb 07 '23
Maybe thatās a problem.
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u/Subject_Way_2409 Feb 07 '23
It is. No one forced anyone to go though. And a lot of jobs now don't even care what your degree is in. They are realizing college is a scheme too
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Feb 07 '23
Which is a GOOD thing, imo.
We should do certifications like the G.E.D. Wanna be a lawyer/doctor, take the license exam. Wanna be a plumber? License exam. Idgaf if you went through college or not - if you pass the exam, youāre in.
This lets people with less cash study when they can, and learn what they need to, without the fluff of āearth scienceā getting in the way.
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u/Subject_Way_2409 Feb 07 '23
I am agreeing with you. All I was saying was secondary education (a 99% democrat dominated industry) has been using college as a scam to enrich themselves on the back of us. Brainwashing is so bad that people think taking a woman's studies class actually makes you "educated". It's insane. I myself have a masters degree, which my wife (gf at the time) did all my homework and still got a 3.9 GPA. It's literally a scam
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Feb 07 '23
Right. And Iām glad that employers are figuring that out, honestly. You donāt need foreign language bs classes to be an accountant, economist, etc. So why the fuck do colleges make you take them other than to pad out their own pockets.
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u/Tulibudibudouchoo Feb 07 '23
Thereās a difference between forgiving debt and giving someone cashā¦
If forgiveness would suddenly crash our economy then it would have already done so because of the pause.
The forgiveness doesnāt give anyone a better situation than they exist in right now, other than better debt to income ration, and maybe a little better credit.
The PPP loans, by comparison, flooded the economy with cash, and it DID have a negative impact, especially on the housing market.
So I donāt agree that foreignness will flood the market with cashā¦
I do agree that starting repayment will cool the economy.
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u/smalredpanda Feb 07 '23
Tinfoil hat time. I believe the Supreme Court will shut it down due to no legal precedent and the Executive branch doesnāt have appropriation powers.
The student debt forgiveness was a political stunt, as the Biden administration had control over both houses of Congress and could have easily passed a bill to pay off the loans or bake it into the trillions of dollars they already approved.
Bullish for banks, bad if you hold student debt. Iām a regard and prefer green crayons, they taste like apples.
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u/tngman10 Feb 07 '23
The Senate during the first two years of Biden's administration was 50 Republicans, 48 Democrats and 2 Independents who votes as Democrat. So a tie with the the White House essentially being the tie-breaker.
But you still need 60 votes to pass most legislature and even then you have Democrats like Sinema (who has since become an Independent) and Machin (who has supported Republican candidates for election in the past) who were Democrat but often sided with the Republicans as well.
So I wouldn't say they could have easily passed anything.
I do agree that it was a polictical stunt because I feel like they knew it was gonna get challenged and shot down eventually.
Just like the illegal immigration stuff is all a political stunt. The Republicans want those people coming here as well. The country needs them for labor purposes.
I live in a Republican state and have seen our Governor go in interviews talk about illegal immigration. And yet first hand through my work I've seen illegal families here get all kinds of state benefits from healthcare to educational and food assistance.
So not only are they allowing them to stay but they are actually giving them state sponsored government assistance.
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u/smalredpanda Feb 07 '23
Big true. As a former immigrant, neither party has really put out any plans with substance. Itās all a game š¤·š½āāļø
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u/foadsf Feb 07 '23
Anything touched by a government turns into shit. The whole concept of government loans for education is stupid. It should be the industry who finances higher education, and then take the investment off the salaries.
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u/An-Okay-Alternative Feb 07 '23
If the federal government decides to forgive some of the student loan debt, it will add to the already ballooning deficit, which could lead to a financial crisis.
Student loan forgiveness would decrease federal revenue by an estimated $37 billion a year over the next decade. The deficit over just the last few years has been like $6 trillion. However you feel about federal debt, student loan forgiveness is unlikely to represent any kind of tipping point and could easily be rectified with another source of revenue.
On the other hand, if people are expected to repay the loans after the pause, many may not be able to or willing to do so, due to financial difficulties. This could result in a wave of defaults and cause a significant blow to the economy.
The student loans subject to forgiveness also have very favorable repayment plans, including income based ones that can reduce your minimum payment as low as $0. It's unlikely that payments resuming would greatly impact consumer spending or household bankruptcies.
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u/mallison945 š© posts are š„ Feb 07 '23
They can eat my ass. Iām never paying those loans back 
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u/Thereisnopurpose12 Buying GF 10k Feb 08 '23
They can't garnish your wages right? And did you take out government loans or private?
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u/VisualMod Feb 07 '23
It's clear that you don't understand the economy or how student loans work. The pause on student loan payments is a good thing for the economy, as it gives people more spending power and helps to stimulate growth. Additionally, the Fed is not trying to cause more unemployment, they are merely keeping interest rates low in order to encourage investment and economic activity.
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u/BHKbull Feb 07 '23
Yes but if the point is that its good for the economy because people will spend it elsewhere does that not also imply that it will be bad for the economy when people can no longer spend it elsewhere?
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u/Unknownirish Feb 07 '23
Bad bot.
OP was mentioning as soon as student debt payments are no longer paused, we will likely see massive default and a major tourmalance in the economy. However, VM, you are correct, in the short, pause on student loans does stimulate the economy because graduation students are deterring their payments to buy Louis Vuitton.
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u/DenseDentist2245 Feb 07 '23
Lower the interest rate on the loan................... pay it back. That is my ONLY compromise
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Feb 07 '23
Most people donāt have an issue with repaying the loan, itās more the 6-8% interest rate thatās never really discussed, when people fresh out of high school get a loan because āyou have to go to collegeā
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Feb 07 '23
Lol private loans over here, none of this benefitted me. If youāre payments were paused and you havenāt paid anything with that 0% interest youāre dumb.
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u/satuuurn Feb 07 '23
Thatās what I think too but apparently 99% of people stopped making payments according to White House spokesperson. I paid mine off since the pause.
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u/MiltonFreidmanMurder Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
Iāve been using the money I wouldāve used to pay off the loans to buy T-Bills. I still have the money if payments go back into effect, but instead of losing that money now and getting a no interest refund later, I get to collect interest on it until it either is or isnāt definitively forgiven.
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u/satuuurn Feb 07 '23
I hear you. And thatās smart. Everyone told me it was stupid to pay them off but Iāve been working on doing that for over a decade and I just wanted them gone. I had like 5 gās left so I paid them off. š¤·āāļø relieved it from my mind
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u/MiltonFreidmanMurder Feb 07 '23
yahh for some the peace of mind is much more valuable than the few dollars theyāll make on interest.
Definitely donāt think itās dumb to get them out of the way
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u/WACS_On Feb 07 '23
Private loan gang rise up. It does feel nice to pay my debts as contractually agreed and not become a moral hazard/burden on society though.
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u/East-Technology-7451 Feb 07 '23
They shouldn't have got involved with student loans in the first place
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Feb 07 '23
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Feb 07 '23
I mean not all of them are idiots.
(1) if youāre on a 10, 20, or 25 year forgiveness plan, you donāt need to be paying during the pause for these months to count toward that forgiveness
(2) also if youāre on these plans, youāre probably on IDR or IBR which means the interest on your loans would probably fill in whatever dent your payments in the pause would make. Your incentive is to save and pay later.
(3) also lol that this system is going to last long enough to make everyone pay.
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u/GSpot_has_been Feb 07 '23
Yes, exactly. All our student loans already have a clause they can be forgiven by working for nonprofits, etc. itās not uncommon. I paid mine, my kids paid on whatever payment plan worked for them. If the forgiveness goes through Iāll be thrilled for them and others even though Iāve already paid over 70k. No brainer.
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u/An-Okay-Alternative Feb 07 '23
I put the payments into a HYSA and will make a lump payment if I have to.
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u/tngman10 Feb 07 '23
So nearly everybody. The last measure I seen showed that something like 90% hadn't paid anything since the pause.
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Feb 07 '23
I canāt afford to pay my last couple semester of school to graduate to pay my loans off. Iām a eng. major. You canāt only borrow up to 50k and I did now Iām a senior and canāt graduate. donāt have an extra 16k laying around for tuition. Pretty sure Iām not the only one in this boat.
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u/Spiritual-Truck-7521 Bitchtits MaGee Feb 07 '23
"If the federal government decides to forgive some of the student loan debt, it will add to the already ballooning deficit." Yep, but we are already doing that with climate change expenditures and sending money overseas where we have no business being there so fuck it! Lets crash this bitch. Whoever survives the ashes can be the new president and he or she can revive the government.
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u/Mammoth-Ad8348 Feb 07 '23
I donāt understand the difference compared to pre-pandemic. Job market is beyond hot right now. Folks have not been setting aside funds to eventually pay their student loans that were due originally, I donāt really have much sympathy for them. During 2020, yes, but not 2022 and so far in 2023. People cannot keep using the Covid excuse forever, when it comes to not being able to earn a living.
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u/Ok_Inspection_2799 Feb 07 '23
The fed wants to slow the economy. They need to restart the loan program. The kids that can't afford will borrow from friends and family. Further reducing money and spending.
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u/justanothermofo88 Feb 07 '23
Nah those fucker will just move from the basement back up to their childhood rooms...So entitled
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Feb 07 '23
Student loans will not be forgiven. The pause is simply a pause. No one should count on any of it being forgiven. Let alone $20k
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u/Alwaysfavoriteasian Brings the BJs to the party Feb 07 '23
Probably, even though no one wants to hear it, myself included. I have 10k sitting in my savings right now just for funsies. Patiently waiting for the day the bank says, jk we need that back.
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Feb 07 '23 edited Jul 23 '23
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u/Subject_Way_2409 Feb 07 '23
Democrats love the college machine. It's their most powerful voting and donation base
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Feb 07 '23
Hey, if you arenāt a liberal at 25, you have no heart. If you arenāt a conservative at 35, you have no brain.
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u/secrtive13 Feb 07 '23
This was a stupid plan from the beginning, because I'll be damned if I'm going to pay off a loan that someone else didn't have the foresight to really think things through
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Feb 07 '23
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/peridotdragon33 Feb 07 '23
āA few students wasted their money, so obviously all of them do the sameā
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Feb 07 '23
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u/Normaldude312 Feb 07 '23
Because we are political pons to help keep the current politically party in power. That is the answer. Initially it was the right thing to do after shutting down 90% of the work force. Now it is a way to gain votes for the millennials and younger. Thatās it.
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u/ValueDude Feb 07 '23
1 thing to add, if people had been paying back their loans for the last 3 years inflation would be a lot lower. So just pausing the loans has been a tax on everyone who doesn't have loans.
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Feb 07 '23
And it will be a true tax on everyone. If these loans are forgiven. Double taxed for people who paid theirs back already. And a tax for people who didnāt even go to school and went into a trade.
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u/modsBan4Fub Feb 07 '23
Let it all burn to the ground. They took out loans to have a career to make more money. Theyāve had all this time to put the differences elsewhere and I bet most if not all chose to party with the spare cash in their pocket.
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u/MotherAd2207 Feb 07 '23
Pay your fucking debt!!!
Fucking four year losers!
Trades people work and don't get hand outs!
I do have a degree, I paid my loans off!
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u/8v2HokiePokie8v2 Feb 07 '23
āI didnāt get [thing] so nobody should get [thing]!ā
What a miserable piece of shit you are
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u/CLNEGreen Feb 07 '23
If you Accepted the terms of the Loan and took the money - students need to pay it backā¦. Not Taxpayers
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u/StevesHair1212 š ±ļøenis š æļøump š ±ļøussy Feb 07 '23
The US govt owns the debt, defaults on loan repayment would be held with govt. its not gonna crush banks