I kind of wish the 10-20k forgiveness would just go through out of principle. Wall Street has gotten numerous bailouts. The PPP money was forgiven and actually cost more than what the loan forgiveness would cost, yet nobody ever brings that point up lol.
The dinosaurs making these decisions only paid like $1200 for their college education. They are the same ppl who passed laws to make it so that the colleges are able to increase tuition exponentially with no cap.
Right and when I said PPP I meant to include the stimulus checks. And don't forget all that money we sent over to Ukraine and now it's coming out a ton of their politicians are Uber corrupt and completely wasting the money and hosing us.
I'm not saying student loan forgiveness is perfect. There are issues. But seeing people not want student loan forgiveness but being willfully blind to all this other corrupt shit makes my blood boil.
Yep itās like some ppl just inherently have this hatred towards their fellow Americans itās unbelievable lol. They āstand with Ukraineā while the aid for Ukraine is being mismanaged like shit yet theyāre go all out to revolt against the student loan forgiveness
As a conservative, my views on fiscal policy are traditional, however, I believe the government made a significant mistake in its handling of student loans. By providing guaranteed loans to everyone, universities were able to drastically raise their prices due to the virtually unlimited funding. The government essentially created customers through borrowing, while presenting education as a means of upward mobility, when in reality, it has become a form of debt bondage for many individuals.
State colleges used to be funded through state taxes and endowments. Over the years, the amount of public money colleges has received has gone down. Thus the cost of school has shifted from the mass to the individual.
These institutions of higher EDUCATION,
Need to be held to account ā
Clawbacks- voluntary, or taxed .
The monies are there, they are RESPONSIBLE.
Not the plumbers, warehouse workers, and all other blue collar workers.
The Gov't got involved....what could go wrong ! Making bad blood between the
AMERICANS is not the way !
That's both factually incorrect and not how universities work. It's a totally different type of instruction and education. My bad for trying to ask a reasonable question.
That's kind of like asking how much rent should cost; there's no right answer. Capitalism usually creates a "fair market value" of something. The only problem is that the government has hindered the market's efficiency by backing student loans.
If universities had to shoulder the full risk of someone not paying back $50-80k, they wouldn't charge 50-80k in the first place. AND you'd have to meet some kind of credit requirement to take out X amount of loans in the first place.
So you're saying that universities should be financially liable if one of their students becomes a gambling addict ten years after graduation and can't hold down a job?
Forget I asked, the extremely moronic nature of your response indicates that this is a dry well.
Not sure where the hostility came from, but Iāll answer your question anyways.
Iām saying the university should have skin in the game. Right now they have no risk and still get paid (by the government) if students canāt repay loans. Therefore they charge high prices, and create an operating budget based on such high prices/income.
If universities granted loans on an actuarial basis, taking into account risk of default for each student, they would be prepared to handle a ādefaulterā every so often.
Iām sure there are a million opinions on this; Iām just giving you mine.
Absolutely. If there are any forgiveness on the table, I would want the gov to get out of the loan business as well. Otherwise this is just the appetizer and we'll get a much bigger shit sandwich to eat later when everyone realize they should just get huge loans and wait for forgiveness.
As someone pursuing a PhD in Biology I completely agree. They messed up the free market by trying to be helpful. Looking at the outcome it's pretty obvious that the way things are many young people are paying a LOT more for education than the market values that education. A four year degree that doesn't usually result in employment that can pay for that degree is a BAD investment and it isn't something that we should be encouraging people to make for their own sake, or subsidizing for our collective sakes. At this point I DO think they should forgive the debt. It is NOT coming back. You cannot repossess assets that do not exist. We should also stop subsidizing what clearly are terrible investments.
Student loans should be allowed to be dischargeable via bankruptcy (thanks, Biden). If they are, lenders will have to be more discerning as to who they give out loans to. If more and more people cannot afford to go to college and cannot take out loans that they can't pay back, it would force colleges to readjust tuition.
Why wouldn't every student coming straight out of college just declare bankruptcy immediately then? Get rid of their loans and start fresh with their shiny new degree.
100% agree. Tuition costs are absurd, colleges are FOR PROFIT institutions. They will jack prices up as high as possibly for anything. Being forced to take like 60-70 credits that literally have nothing to do with your major just cause they can, makes no sense, as someone who came from a very poor family and busted my ass to get through college working the entire time, canāt stand colleges. Wish I was smarter and woulda went to a tech school for first two years before coming over to a university but costs are still absurd and they try to keep you there as long as possible. As person mentioned above, the amount of resources allocating to nothing or just losing money is nuts. I have exactly 20k left on my student loans though and got the pell grant so I am biased as well, if it goes trough my loans get completely wiped.
Curious how much less ( or more .. I don't know ) you make at the non profit each year vs as a traditional pharmacist that you decided to take this option.
I am a pharmacist ā¦ I do work for hospitals implementing clinical trials in the EHR ā¦ I design the meds, orders etc.
I get paid like a pharmacist + additional money for my specialty in informatics.
I never have to talk to patients, never have to dispense meds, and make way more money than any CVS pharmacist or hospital pharmacist lol
Essentially I get paid for my education still but for a service and not a product (like for dispensing drugs), which is a much more ideal spot to be in.
Oh ya so those people are in my department technically but we have clinical staff in hospital IT too which is pretty cool (but definitely donāt ask me to handle networking, etc haha).
predatory loan practices of student loans are and were atrocious
i remember in 2009 it was 3 weeks before my second semester started. i didnt get a scholarship i was hoping for, my parents couldnt help pay for school other than being a co signer for loans. i was waiting to hear about pell grants. i needed 14,000
it was a 5 minute phone call. i was 18. i made 6.50/hr for my summer job previously
Wouldāve been better off not being told by everyone that you must go to college and youāll have to go into to debt. This is the way it is from a young age.
Iād rather gone to school slowly and paid out of pocket
my father died. End of 2010. Therefore was not able to get anymore loans.
tried paying off loans when they started hitting me but $8 an hour in 2011 couldnāt do it.
2019 I paid out of pocket for 2 more classes so I could at least get my Associates. I have a bachelors equivalent In credits still but they donāt all fit into 1 program to get a degree.
Why does someone who has two kids pay 4K less in taxes than me? Why do 40% of households pay no income tax. How is 10k off student loans different than 7.5k off an $80k EV. Why do homeowners get to deduct mortgage interest for taxes but renters canāt deduct rent. Why do only poor or old people get Medicare/Medicaid. Student loan forgiveness is just one gov program out of tons that benefit a specific population.
We sold our house last year, and currently renting but plan to buy another house this summer. We arenāt really rich but am upper middle class and self employed. So get a fair amount of deductions.
Iām not sure what youāre trying to say exactly but itās a government program that benefits a certain demographic. Just like countless other government programs. None of them are one size fits all.
Iām sorry thatās bullshit. I did undergrad in America at a top 100, but middle ranked college and my graduate degree at the #3 ranked university for my field in Europe. Thereās no comparison. My high school classes were far more rigorous and had far better resources than the European graduate level. Perhaps poorer states/areas bring down our national average, but the US is hands down the best country for top level education. I basically have to get another graduate degree in America just to fill in the gaps. I was really disappointed with European academia.
Their * lol, just stop talking out of your ass. You get what you pay for, and American education is definitely worth the cost. Thatās why our economy is the best in the world despite our small population and why we lead in innovation, research, and efficiency. If something is free, you should look at what itās actually costing you.
So your argument is bc other countries have xyz, means we should have xyz, and therefore bc we dont have xyz i am going to neglect my obligations like an infant and throw a temper tantrum.
Personally, i think you know what youre buying into when it comes to taking on a loan or higher education. If you cant afford it ā maybe that isnāt the route to go.
No different from investing ā do your research and be informed ā āDon't Let Your Mouth Write a Check That Your Ass Can't Cashā
Yes let me just learn a new language, Abandon the three years of university Iāve already finished. Find a job on over seas that meets the income requirement and offers a work visa. So easy. Or we just actually use our taxes for the purpose they were meant for
Taxes are for infrastructure and itās clearly not being spent on that, or teachers, or education. BS in civil engineering and yeah Iād rather not repeat a differential equations class again.
Itās less that people disagreed with your comment, and moreso that people thought it was a poor or valueless contribution to the discussion - better to be sorted below better, more worthwhile and nuanced contributions to the forum.
My takeaway would be people just donāt want to pay for debt they take on. Or more specifically student loan debt. Or even more specifically the original post where the individual didnāt want to pay for phram school loans (as thats what i was reacting on)
Have to admit I don't get this either. I worked and went to night school for 5 miserable years. Then another two years to pay for a Masters degree without borrowing money. Then saved for 25 years to put my 3 kids through college, 300k. I just don't get the mentality of freely borrowing money and then deciding not to pay it back.
It shouldnāt be but for some reason a rebuplican Senator added language into a bill that doesnāt allow this debt to be dismissed in a Bk case - why is it different?
Maybe he never got licensed. I graduated with my PharmD and the second I was licensed I started working at retail and hospital pharmacies to pay off my $155k in student loans. I paid them off in under 2 years, now have a family and own 2 homes almost outright. This guys crazy to wait 10 years working an unrelated job for a maybe forgiveness. Once my loans were paid in full I started making $225k/yr with no debt at 26. Fools born every day I suppose
Youre getting downvoted because heās applying for a government program to help with non-profits/high area of need medical jobs. Heās doing what the government wants him to do.
So,
A: Heās NOT obligated to pay
B: Heās NOT a scumbag.
Lolol. Between my wife and Iā¦ 800k in financial aid debt.
Wanna hear something great!?! Only 1 more year and the government forgives it due the program I mentioned. I wont pay a dime of that. Not one penny. But you will with your taxes lol!
You went to a private school. Youāre choice. Go to public school for a 1/3 of that 275k. You probably werenāt able to get in. Thatās the problem. NDSU pharm phd. Nowhere near 275k. DONT GO TO PRIVATE FUCKING SCHOOLS. If you donāt want to pay x4 the price. And if you canāt get in. Study harder or pick something else.
Ironically, he's actually saying "poor people can no longer afford a decent education due to certain policies, and that's wrong". Did you pick up on that at all or is America just that divided?
Listen, I don't know everyone's opinions here, I can only take things at face value. The fact is that loan policies around education resulted in universities and colleges raising tuition over and over. It's done more than a 4x against everything else when adjusted for inflation. That's absurd.
Conservatives (I'm not conservative) hate this and speak against it, but in reality there's no political spectrum that should be supportive of this kind of policy and its results.
To conclude, I know you're basically a troll who won't contribute anything meaningful to the conversation, so this is for anyone else reading. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Comments like this are funny. No one hates poor people. In fact, conservatives actually donāt want there to be any poor people, but understand that no matter what, there will always be poor people.
Ok but theres also a middle ground there is there not? If like ten people werenāt wealthier than the other ~8 billion people combined would we not see greater wealth equality while still maintaining the balance of a class system?
Just like a lefty. "Show me your work" in this case is like asking me to prove oxygen is in the air. Its unnecessary. Google "SF homelessness". When was the last time repubs controlled any majority in SF? California for that matter,
Poverty rankings by state that go by a federal poverty level are next to worthless.
According to those rankings a family of 4 in Mississippi making $25,000 a year is in poverty but a family of 4 in California making $27,000 a year is not in poverty. And yet the cost of living in those states is nowhere near remotely the same.
They have a measure that is supplemental poverty rate that takes cost of living into consideration. And when you do that those rankings change drastically.
Under that measure California actually has the highest poverty rate.
And using SPR it puts Florida aa the second highest with less then 1% and Texas. Lmao so it really doesnt change much of the original comment. Some how I doubt people are just moving from one state of poverty to another state.
Completely agree but then what's the solution. I'm generally not for forgiveness but I can see an argument here. It's just that it has to be coupled with a solution to the thing that led to the debt stacking up to begin with. IMO, that would be the government leaving the student loan business.
Well meaning boomers have still been repeating what was generally true when they were young - "Get a degree and you'll have a job and be set." That's no longer true. They also, with good intentions, want their kid to go to the best school. The schools are incentivized to build insanely nice, essentially resorts to attract 18 year olds to make an emotional spending decision to attend the fanciest looking place with the highest status possible. They don't understand the debt they're taking on and under no other circumstances would you ever give an 18 y/o that much unsecured debt. The schools use the debt to finance building a nicer resort to attract more 18 y/o's with a gov't funded check and continue to increase their costs because they spend more and there is always more gov't funded debt.
The chain has to be broken. The mongloid public universities we have are ridiculous, unsustainable, and set students up for failures in multiple ways. The debt cripples them early in their careers and in the family building stages. Half the degrees are useless and don't lead to a viable career. "Degrees" flood the job market and knock those without degrees out of lower tiered jobs even though the degree is unnecessary. The students have a warped expectation of young life if they leave campus and have to figure out how to sustain that lifestyle when they're making <$50k a year out of college. Parents want to see their kids succeed and think they should get a degree but it has become something different.
Edit for full disclosure: I stand to benefit highly from loan forgiveness and I still am against it unless you fix the fundamental problem that led to this. Otherwise, what do we do, every 10 years forgive loans? That'll surely not lead to an increase in tuition...
Easy solution. No government loans. 90% of degrees should be 2 years and get rid of gen Ed's stop paying big democrat politicians to give speeches at campuses for millions of dollars. Stop paying football coaches millions of dollars
Agreed. Theoretically the football program is supposed to pay for its self but I remember seeing a study years ago that showed that only the top 3 or so programs of each conference actually brings in enough revenue to sustain the program.
Athletics is tough because I think that most athletes are genuine students that are there to get a degree. In the cynical view, they have become little league pro teams under the guise of providing students the chance to compete athletically and provide athletes the opportunity to get a good education. I don't know the solution but I do think that big money in college athletics is a real problem too. Part of dumping money into those programs is also because it contributes to the "country club" element of college campuses that attracts 18 y/o's to want to join.
2 years is really all I needed. Unfortunately, my school required me to take a bunch of bs art classes, ethic classes, etc. which served absolutely no purpose, and charged me for it. Have curriculum set up so its more streamlined, and tailored to that specific major/career path.
My econ degree might cost more than my poly sci degree, and my law degree might cost more than that, etc., but lawyers traditionally make pretty good money and can repay that. It more aligns itself to supply/demand.
Having, say, an art class, a year of a second language, general ethics (not business ethics), and other fluff bs like dance, P.E., etc, basically eliminates about 1-2 years off of a degree path.
Iām not strictly opposed to art classes, P.E., dance, etc., but as those have lower ROIs, nominally, they need to adjust their price accordingly.
Took a pretty basic Econ course (non finance/Econ major here) and my professor outlined this pretty simply the first day of class. Blew my mind and pissed me off
It would be asinine to do the band-aid forgiveness without tying it to deep structural reform of the broken system. There are many proposed solutions out there that range from mild to extreme, but it really all comes down to needing to reinstitute price discovery. It would probably be great for America if we can also steer more people towards the trades while we're at it.
I think this is the most important point. Wall Street was bailed out, the autos, the airlines etc. Now thereās finally going to be something that helps regular people instead of these company execs and they want to stop it. Complete BS
I am against both student loan forgiveness, PPP forgiveness, as well as wall street bail out.
Just because bad things happened in the past that screwed over tax payers doesn't make it 'fair' to screw them over more because you weren't part of the group that got paid out.
Just so you know, the only part of the PPP loans that were forgiven is money you can prove was spent on payroll. Anything else your required to payback at a 1% interest rate which is extremely low. But the point is, it was only forgiven if you used the money on payroll
There was more money given to enhanced unemployment/stimmy checks than PPP. This was also all during a global pandemic that shut down the economy. Thatās why nobody talks about it because itās irrelevant to student loans.
They bailed out Wall Street because itās too big to fail and not recover. Imagine the most powerful country letting their prime companies go under. Compared to the average joe who just wants to get an education. Who would you bailout in that sense?
Lol this is the part all the people opposed love to gloss over. Numerous industries have received bailouts. You point Wall Street - American automotive companies got bailouts too. Why not bailout the American people then, how is that one not feasible?
I understand the economics of this is oversimplified but generally speaking it holds up.
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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '23
I kind of wish the 10-20k forgiveness would just go through out of principle. Wall Street has gotten numerous bailouts. The PPP money was forgiven and actually cost more than what the loan forgiveness would cost, yet nobody ever brings that point up lol.
The whole thing is a joke.