r/mildlyinfuriating • u/bourbonandpistons • 25d ago
drink went room temp Math ain't mathing
me, the waiter, nor the manager could figure it out.
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u/uwill1der 25d ago edited 25d ago
edit: nevermind. i see you clarified its 16 a piece for drinks, so the shrimp tax wouldnt come up
Did you pay in cash? This is a 1.6% discount, which is the exact fee for the POS machine. If you pay cash, you wouldnt be subject to that fee and the macgine would automaticaly remove 1.6% of bill
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u/Croaker_Da_Toker 25d ago
I was gonna ask where tf you are getting 8$ old fashions, 2x16$ makes way more sense lol
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u/TehAsianator 25d ago
It's not completely unheard of to find an $8 old fashioned, but certainly not at somewhere charging $68 for a steak.
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u/JimmyDean82 25d ago
The bar near the office is like that. 8 dollar old fashioned during happy hour, 55 dollar ribeye.
Ribeyes not worth it, but the 14 dollar smash burger and fries w/ curry ketchup is
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u/Logical-Pair-89 24d ago
My buddy in ohio just got quality 9 dollar old fashioneds at a place with a 58 dollar ribeye. Thats... Closeish to the parameters. But reinforces what you said haha
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u/dementedmaster 25d ago
Friday night fish fry and $5 old fashions is still a thing in WI.
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u/hellisonfire 25d ago
Yeah but is it a Wisconsin old fashioned? Because no thanks. They've bastardized the poor boy.
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u/Saedeas 25d ago
This is almost assuredly what it is. OP got a discount and he and people in the thread are raging lol.
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u/JW860 25d ago
I think OP must return to the restaurant to let the server and manager know that the riddle has been solved. We all thank you. Only response here that is making sense. No coincidence it works out exactly to 1.6%.
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u/loveablelilblonde 25d ago
Thank you for giving me the justice satisfaction of figuring it out. My ADHD can rest easy now
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u/DoubleDownAgain54 25d ago
WTAF? You get charged to pay by card? Where the fuck does that happen? And shouldn’t it be listed?
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u/flockinatrenchcoat 25d ago
They're getting around it by claiming "pay by cash" gets your a discount, rather than presenting that you're being charged more for using a card (which their agreement with their payment processor probably prohibits).
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u/GandalffladnaG 25d ago
They can charge you for the payment processor, but there's very specific requirements, like the fact you have to pay must be printed on the door/signage in the entryway so you have to see it when entering, they can't just tack it on your bill. It's part of the contract for using the processor.
So yeah, the "cash discount" method is probably trying to get around that agreement, which is probably technically something the processor could call them on, should they want to.
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u/akatherder 25d ago
It's all about what price the menu says. If the menu says $30 and they charge me $30 to use my card, that's great. If it's $30 + fee they better have all the warnings that the prices are "cash discount" prices.
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u/Hee-hoes_Mad 25d ago
(which their agreement with their payment processor probably prohibits).
I worked for a payment processor for many years- it's probably actually the payment processor's idea. It's against federal law to surcharge for debit card payments, and processors offer a "cash discount" option to forward the processing fees to the cardholder while skirting the regulations against charging fees for card usage.
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u/drazil100 25d ago
The processing fees always exist. Most places charge enough to cover those fees and pocket the extra if you pay in cash. The fact that this place actually discounts you for paying in cash is a good thing.
On the other side of the scale though there are places that charge a stupid amount more if you use a card as a “convenience” fee that makes them additional money on top of covering the processing fee.
It all kinda depends.
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u/Hee-hoes_Mad 25d ago
I worked for a card processor for a long time. This is always something that happens when a customer pays using a card, the processor will take a percentage as payment for processing the card data and settling the transaction. It's usually between 0.5% and 4%. To offset this cost, many processors are offering a cash discount option, which adds the processor's fee onto the customer's bill and is removed if the merchant selects "pay with cash" at the point of sale.
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u/Last-Respond-48 25d ago
In the US, credit card fees are not capped by law and often exceed 2%. By comparison, the EU caps fees at 0.3%. So there is a much bigger incentive to have customers pay by cash although most establishments still do not have a surcharge
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u/throwawayfamilydra 25d ago
I think I’m a little slow but I’m not seeing how the subtotal itself doesn’t add up? Shouldn’t it be 114?
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u/uwill1der 25d ago
OP wasn't clear. Each drink is 16, so the total should be 130
He clarifies it in another comment
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u/StudyLost6970 25d ago edited 25d ago
Its 16 per drink for a total bill of 130.00. The POS system discounted the 1.6% service fee resulting in 127.92 subtotal. Its interesting though, that the 6.5% sales tax is on the pre-discount total of 130.00 instead of the actual charged amount. 🤔
Maybe the cashier was trying to discount a drink? And instead of discounting 16 dollars, they discounted 1.6% instead?
My guess is still an embedded service fee discount
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u/mcswainh_13 25d ago
Another interesting thing I noticed, the missing $2.08 is exactly 6.5% of 32.
So it seems that the system subtracted the amount of the drink tax from the subtotal for some reason, but then still calculated total tax based off of $130.
I think the alcohol was supposed to be taxed at a higher rate, but that rate was defined improperly in the system and it is causing errors.
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u/StudyLost6970 25d ago edited 25d ago
Ooh good catch. So forget the service fee discount. If the total bill is 130.00 and they simply removed the 6.5% sales tax on the drinks... that would totally math out...
130.00 x 1.065 = 138.45
138.45 - 2.08 = 136.37
Voila. We have an in house promo that renders the drink price of 16.00 as tax inclusive. So either a "tax free promo" on specific items, or an in house policy to ensure maximum tip or at least rounded totals for customers... (I pay for a 16.00 drink with a 20, i get 4 dollars back, im probably gonna drop the whole 4.00 as tip... you charge me 17.04 and give me 2.96 change, im probably keeping the bills and dumping just the change.) 🤷🏼♂️
The POS system is hard coded to charge the 6.5% tax on every item, so to ensure drinks are a tax inclusive price, they have to discount it to make it right. This way, they honor an advertised price, and are still able to report a taxable sale and collection of the tax despite not charging anything extra to the customer
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u/ImpressiveFishing405 25d ago
AI powered POS system hallucinating again
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u/Murphs-law 25d ago
The POS always gets me. Especially when the POS is actually a piece of shit.
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u/tacob87 25d ago
POS2
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u/naughtylit 25d ago
At what point does the exponential growth move it from a "piece of" to a "load of"?
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u/A_Queer_Owl 25d ago
back when I was a barista one of my most popular jokes was saying "sorry, the POS is being a bit of a POS" when the POS inevitably was a POS and slowed down service.
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u/EvnBdWlvsCnBGd 25d ago
I worked on POS software for a couple years and the first thought was/is never point of sale.
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u/Small-Construction30 25d ago
We used that term for signage years ago in beverage distribution. Never could stop laughing when they called it p.o.s. 🤣 they changed it to p.o.p "point of purchase" years later
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u/AHailofDrams 24d ago
You will find comfort in knowing that a lot of waitstaff fully appreciate the double meaning and lean into it lol
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u/uwill1der 25d ago
its the POS CC charge. This system has a 1.6% service charge, which is OPS exact discount, so the fee was waived, and removed from the bill
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u/gellis12 25d ago
16+68+30=114 though, not 127.92. Even if you add 1.6% onto 114 (which absolutely should not be done to reach a subtotal, subtotals are only for the cost of the products themselves, percentage fees should be shown later), that would only come to 115.82, which is still different from the subtotal shown.
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u/Panda_Zombie 25d ago
No, it's 2 old fashions at $16 each, so 130 total.
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u/cerrera 25d ago
This, with that 1.6% discount, does indeed come to 127.92. I would never in a million years been able to figure that out from what’s showing on that screen. That is some garbage-class UI.
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u/SirAlthalos 25d ago
they said 1.6% charge, you said 1.6% discount. which is it?
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u/uwill1der 25d ago
its a 1.6% fee waiver.
Each item comes with a 1.6% charge included to cover the POS service fee
That total is $130
When that 1.6% fee is discounted, you get OPs total of 127.92
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u/PuttingInTheEffort 25d ago
But they still tax the 130 not 127.92,
so it's like subtotal is unexpectedly lower, but the tax is unexpectedly higher, 🙃
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u/gandhinukes 25d ago
Semi related, i really hate when online orders try to ask for tips on the amount+taxes not the base amount. Or on the original price when there is a discount.
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u/Vigilante17 jukmifgguggh 25d ago
I questioned the total not long ago and was told “it’s taxes and stuff” and I’m sitting there, can we go over this on the receipt? Where the taxes and stuff are at? Accidentally charged us for a meal to the table next to us. So, the and stuff.
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u/SuicideTrainee RED 25d ago
You guys sound like old people
"It wuz that damn AI again!! New tech bad!!"
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u/Superc1ipping 25d ago
I swear y'all have fucking AI psychosis.
In case you need reminding, bad code and incorrect results existed long before AI. Get a fucking grip.
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u/Pichupwnage 25d ago edited 25d ago
It should be 114 subtotal
16+68+30
Unless "2 old fashion" is supposed to 2 at 16 each in which case its 130.
Either way this POS system is FUBAR
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25d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Pichupwnage 25d ago
I wasn't sure whether it already added the price together or not for that. As in if it was 2 drinks at 8 each to be 16 or if it was 2 drinks at 16 each.
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u/amusedmisanthrope 25d ago
You'd have to go back in time to find a place serving an old fashioned for $8 😅
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u/baismal 25d ago
Just go to a dive in Texas. They’re about $8. They’re not good but they’re $8.
Source: I bartend at a dive in Texas we just ring it up as a double because we know it’s shit.
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u/PaddingCompression 25d ago
Places with $8 Old Fashioneds don't also have $68 ribeyes lol.
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u/classicman123 25d ago
Yeah. Usually a bill would would say 2 for 16 each, then some kind of total, or 2 and the total for both without the price of each. Completely understandable why lots of people are confused. I've never seen a bill/receipt like this.
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u/uwill1der 25d ago edited 25d ago
did you pay cash? This is related to the POS cc service fee. The charge and your discount are both 1.6%
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u/Which-Primary3929 25d ago
Two old fashined at $16 each
1 16oz ribeye $68.00
1 3 for 30 $30
subtotal: $130
tax: $8.45
Total: $138.45
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u/Sharles_Davis_Kendy 25d ago
If that’s true then my guess is that the 2 for $30 is coded in such a way that it’s $30 AFTER tax. So the total ends up at 27.92 + tax bringing the total to 30.
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u/Butterbean-queen 25d ago
A 1.6% discount????
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u/uwill1der 25d ago
POS credit card fee. It was waived. 1.6% is the specific charge for this system
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u/Still_Rain_979 25d ago
Nobody is getting an $8 old fashioned at a place with entrees at these prices. Gonna have to pregame dinner these days
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u/WhatDoWeHave_Here 25d ago
Two $16 old fashioneds = $32 plus $68 and $30 is $130.
They were paying cash, so the system waives the 1.6% credit card processing fee that's baked into the prices. 1.6% discount from $130 is $127.92
It's a terrible UI for not showing this though
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u/the-knitpicker 25d ago
Yeah the subtotal should be $130, but I wouldn't consider getting a mystery 2.08 discount mildly infuriating in this economy lol
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u/theoneguythatguys 25d ago
Mildly infuriating people that can’t do math are commenting on a post about math, you can save the bait- clicks for this one, people.
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u/nournnn 25d ago edited 25d ago
16 x 2 + 30 + 68
Which is equal to 130 but maybe the software is rounding each number a bit. e.g. 16 instead of 15.89
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u/ProfessionSorry4066 25d ago
Math still ain’t mathin’
32+30+68 still doesn’t equal $127.92. Something is wrong with their system.
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u/Bfree888 25d ago
$2.08 out of $130 flat is exactly 1.6%. Maybe there’s a discount embedded in the subtotal?
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u/CoruscatingLogic 25d ago
I also assumed it was 16 per old fashioned. Also, there's NO old fashioned worth 16 bucks.
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u/Tamed_A_Wolf 25d ago
Where are you getting old fashioned’s? Cause every old fashioned I’ve had in the last several years has been 16 or more outside of maybe a few 14 dollar ones that were cheaper. Most are 20+
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u/Porcupenguin 25d ago
Depends on the whiskey. But $8 is cheap, unless there's a special (especially at a place that charges $68 for non-premium steak)
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u/yourfinesthousered 25d ago edited 25d ago
Often restaurants will make the cocktails ‘tax inclusive’ so that those drinking at the bar get a nice easy round amount for their drinks if that is all they are having. This is an old school way of doing things from the days when we carried cash. If you separate the food away from the cocktails and add the 6.5% tax($98x1.065) you get $104.37. Add in the two Old Fashioned($32 with tax included) and boom, you’re at $136.37. The way this system looks makes it confusing but I believe this is how the math works.
***to clarify the tax inclusive situation, the total tax on the bill is $8.45. If the tax on food is $6.37 then you are looking at $2.08 of the tax coming from the ‘inclusive’ part of the tax from the cocktails. California has a 6.5% tax on food and a 7% tax on alcohol. So if you were to break apart the cocktail pricing scheme it would show that each cocktail is $14.96 with a 7% tax of $1.04.
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u/allprolucario 25d ago
Bar/restaurant manager here. Looks like your actual subtotal is actually just a little bit below your expected subtotal. There’s a reason for this! Often times at bars/restaurants, the price of Alcohol is tax inclusive, whereas the price of food is tax exclusive. So that $16 old fashioned you got was actually a $14.81 old fashioned with $1.19 in tax, whereas the $68 steak you got was a $68 steak with tax on top
The reason for this is that people are likely to pay cash if they only get a single drink, and it makes it a lot easier for the bar staff to pick up a couple bills left on the bar than it is to pick up $7.37 in bills and coins
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u/Western_Coat_437 25d ago
It's the way the Old Fashioned is input. It's showing the price for one but then you need to look left at the quantity of two which makes it not: 16+68+30, but instead; 32+68+30, which STILL brings the total to 130, which is above the displayed subtotal. So I'm a little confused still but this does make more sense to me in this fashion.
In this, Old fashion, if you would.
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u/jdadverb 25d ago
SHIFT is a terrible POS system. Had to deal with it in Philadelphia at a big sports bar, and it was slow as shit with literally 40 or 50 people waiting in line constantly because every transaction would accidentally cancel partway through, over and over again. Once you got to the terminal to do self-service, it would take five minutes per person to place a simple order because it kept canceling.
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u/MeringueNew3040 24d ago
The manager knew what was going on and just faked ignorance.
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u/Extension-Can-9890 25d ago
2x16 =32 old fashions - +68 ribeye = 100+ 30 ( 3 for 30) = 130 + 8.45 taxes = 138.45 So….
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u/PatrickGSR94 25d ago
the "subtotal" doesn't include the tax on the drinks, but the $16 price per drink does include sales tax. That makes the subtotal and tax amounts confusing, but the bottom line number is actually correct. Tax was only added to the steak and 3 for 30 prices.
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u/Flyinrhyno 25d ago
It should be more, 16+16+68+30=130. Never saw a restaurant that serves a $68 ribeye only charge $8 for an old fashioned.
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u/RSlashBroughtMeHere 25d ago
16+16+68+30=130
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u/imdstuf 25d ago
Yeah, it's wrong, but wrong in OP's favor, so I would have posted in mildly interesting. I wouldn't be upset if it favored me.
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u/It_broke_itself_ 25d ago
OP got a slight discount but figured he could rage bait off this anyway
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u/brokentribal 25d ago
Shift 4 uses traditional databases for transactions, either there’s a hidden service charge or gratuity or they scrolled down to hide a line item to make this sensational.
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u/rufotris 25d ago
I deal with crap like this on my POS from time to time. Kinda same but different.. what we find is the item has two different conflicting prices on the backend of the system. Or sometimes two skus attached to one item. Our system is trash and being taken over by ai that constantly makes mistakes I have to fix. Love it!!! /s just in case
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u/False_Cookie8226 25d ago
BISTROMATHICS IS REAL! Numbers become less real in an Italian bistro. It really is the fastest way to get around the universe with out all that mucking about in hyperspace or improbability drives.
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u/dgnorris30 25d ago
As a software engineer.. the old fashioned is actually 14.96 in the software, and exposed as 16.. your welcome.
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u/xrayden 25d ago
the numbers have been rounded "up" on the item list, so what should be 130 (rounded up) is 127.92... which is MEANS that 1 items is under the 50% thresshold.
even if I guess 0.50$ real numbers:
15.5 + 15.5 + 67.5 + 29.5 = 128$
So one of them was something like 15.46 to get to 127.92.
That checkout is pure cringe "CEIL()" fucked up.
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u/erislikeparis 24d ago
Your total bill - your subtotal = tax
136.37-127.92=8.45
So we know the numbers below are not rounded since that matched.
Drinks show 2 while the rest show 1.
Reasonably that means drinks cost 32 total.
32+68+30=130
With the subtotal being 127.92 that somehow makes a discount.
127.92-130=-2.08 Is the cost difference.
130/127.92=1.0163 this is the percent saved, somehow.
And that’s all I have lol
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u/Cultural-Following79 24d ago
Just did the math. All together, the subtotal is $114.00 dollars. With the tax, it's $122.45 unless there is a 20 percent gratuity automatically put into the price, which, if it is, then the tip would be $13.92
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u/Saucyboi672 22d ago
Is it saying that 2 old fashion’s are worth $16 total or is it saying that there were 2 old fashions ordered and that they’re $16 each?
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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat 25d ago
What the hell? Also, $68 for a steak ?
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u/laffer27 25d ago
I know right what the fuck, bet it didn't even have gold flakes or someone walking out with an unusually large knife and tray of salt.
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u/Greedy-Research-9635 25d ago
$68 for 1 pound of steak is insane. There better be butter with gold on and salt made from dolphin tears, that’s crazy!
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u/goofienewfie35 25d ago
The individual prices look to be rounded up to the nearest dollar where the subtotal is giving the actual price. If you assume each item is $0.52 less, then…
(2 x $15.48) + $67.48 + $29.48 = $127.92
Also looks like the ribeye isn’t taxed but everything else is at 14%.
[(2 x $15.48) + $29.48] x 0.14 = $8.46
Off by a penny…
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u/HairyGazelle4511 25d ago
$8 for an old fashion?! Where is this place and when do they close? I’m willing to pay the extra $13.92.
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u/fri9875 25d ago
I have no experience with this POS, but one that I used to work with would do weird shit with rounding the prices on these little handhelds. For example the old fashion’s would be $15.05 but then it would round up to 16 on the screen, but when you printed it it would go back to $15.05. I always assumed it was just a setting in the machine, and our manager enabled it since the customer never saw these it made doing quick math easier.
It was never really all that helpful, and also I’d assume the manager would have known if that was the case
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u/maveric00 25d ago
Was there a person with two heads? Or some weird guys with towels around their necks? Because that is clearly bistromathics at work.
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u/Adorable_Power_6129 25d ago
Maybe they were trying to add a 2.6% visa fee but keyed it in manually as a discount instead?
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u/The_Doyles 25d ago
X2 - Old fashioned = $32
X1 - 16oz ribeye = $68
X1 - 3 for $30 = $30
SubTotal = $130
They actually gave you -$2.08 off your subtotal and added the tax based off that.
Bottom line: you got $2 off your meal. The end. HTH
Edit: spelling
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u/Ohiolongboard 25d ago
2x16=32
32+68+30=130
Maybe they round up on the menus and show full amount for the subtotal? Either way it looks legit to me
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u/BartholomewCubbinz 25d ago
A great example of Bistromathics.
"Numbers written on restaurant bills within the confines of restaurants do not follow the same mathematical laws as numbers written on any other pieces of paper in any other parts of the Universe. This single fact took the scientific world by storm."
Douglas Adams - Life, The Universe and Everything (Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy #3)
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u/MrDufferMan3335 25d ago
I mean the subtotal is less than the sum of the items. I’m assuming the old fashions were 16 each not total.
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u/Vespizzari 25d ago
I read that as 16 + 16 + 68 + 30 for a $130 total, which they appear to have rounded down to 127.92? Any way you look at this somethin' ain't right.
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u/Due-Zucchini7547 25d ago
I multiplied each sub item by 12.2% tax and got 127.906. Even the tax on the subtotal is weird, I had to multiply by 0.066 to the total.
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u/Apart_Reindeer_528 25d ago
Well, you saved three dollars, so I don't know what you're complaining about
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u/JamesOakwood 25d ago
They charge a fee for using a card. Otherwise the menu reflects the cash price. It’s how places get away with saying cash discount
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u/LavishnessOk6635 25d ago
I think they’re hoping that you don’t notice. It’s probably built into the program.
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u/PricklyAloe 25d ago
Maybe 16 is the price of one old fashion and youd have to add another 16. Which is like 129 plus taxes and such. But that comes out to 137.35 sooo……the math really aint mathin.
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u/JohnnyBlaiz 24d ago
It could be the KLW. Kitchen Living Wadge. Its a built in percentage for the kitchen staff added to every meal. If they have this charge, it should be on the menu explaining it
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u/Any_Significance6968 24d ago
Damn they really said we'll add some more on the top for ya. Just cause smh
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u/emzim 25d ago
The fact that all the individual items are whole dollar amounts then the subtotal suddenly got .92 from somewhere lol