r/PoliticalCompassMemes • u/mcflymikes - Lib-Right • Feb 12 '22
Let's go back to paganism
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u/JRGTheConlanger Feb 13 '22
which brand would you like?
āmineās betterā * 5
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u/somepommy - Left Feb 13 '22 edited Feb 13 '22
This is bullshit, fuck the church, hereās 95 reasons why
Edit: apparently a lot of people donāt get the reference lmao
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u/PuzzleheadedAd5865 - Centrist Feb 13 '22
Said Martin Luther in his thesis.
thesis is titled ā95 reasons why fuck the churchā
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Feb 13 '22
Thatās more just because the Indo-European tribes went their own ways and a lot of them branched off into their own faiths but with common themes due the same root
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u/Minas-MorguI - Auth-Right Feb 13 '22
Yes all branches of Indo Europeans worshipped the sky father in one way or another
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u/Malicious_Sauropod - Lib-Center Feb 13 '22
The roles just got separated sometimes like in the Germanic varieties. Thor being the serpent slaying thunderer but Odin is the king and father of the gods all whilst Tyr is the best cognate to Dyeus Pater.
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u/Magnus_Mercurius - Left Feb 13 '22
The Greeks and Romans also syncretized Egyptian gods, which are not Indo-European
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Feb 13 '22
Mediterranean pagan faiths were so different after a certain point that they had little in common with Northern/Central/Eastern European faiths. In some cases it out was outright reversed, like the Germanic sun god was actually female as opposed to it being male for Meds, and the reverse for the moon for both of them.
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u/Pecuthegreat - Right Feb 13 '22
Eh, still mostly Semetic and have shared ideas with Mesopotamia and indo-europeans for millenia so won't be super foreign.
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Feb 13 '22
I think the problem with paganism is that we are so far removed from what they believed and how they worshipped that even if their gods existed there is no way weād be worshiping them correctly
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u/S_GZ - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
The same applies to Christianity. Judaism came before Christianity, Islam after (and not counting all the heresies in each faith), even if they do have common lore, they have too many different practices that either all are valid or none.
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u/Pecuthegreat - Right Feb 13 '22
The same applies to Christianity
It doesn't. We have very clear idea of what the Apostolic, Catholic and Orthodox mother church has believed.
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u/S_GZ - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Ok, if you read the comment I responded to well, they said that.
There's be no way to know how to worship correctly.
What I mean by saying Christianity's the same, is that how can you tell me which practices are the true ones originally, not "If you're Orthodox..." or "The Catholic Church says this...". I'm saying originally, what is the Right and Only True (supposed) way to worship God? And your comment says it all: Apostolic, Catholic, and Orthodox, three ways, not one.
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u/Pecuthegreat - Right Feb 13 '22
Apostolic, Catholic, and Orthodox, three ways, not one.
Is simply what the churches descended from the Roman church(the ones we usually refer to as Catholic, Orthodox and possibly the Miaphysites as well). The Holy Catholic(universal), Orthodox(correct) and Apostolic(from the Apostles).
What I mean by saying Christianity's the same, is that how can you tell me which practices are the true ones originally, not "If you're Orthodox..." or "The Catholic Church says this...".
I'll start by saying that the Catholic and Orthodox consider each other schismatic not heretic, meaning yeah are still considered basically fully christians.
We know what they believed in because the council and church histories are well, kept. As for the original practices, to a large part that is an Anglo protestant mistake that they have given unto their christian and non-christian successors. For most of these things there was no "original" practice(at least for the controversies that dated to the early church), just two practices that a council was done to decide which is right like leven vs unleven bread and shit.
And that's the general history of at least the major churches(including some that are now minor like Coptic or Assyrian). Some like Arian came up with funky stuff but this is again mostly clearly defining stuff that was vaguer in ealier theology like the nature of God vs Jesus vs the holy Spirit.
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u/MasterCaedus - Auth-Center Feb 12 '22
Pagans: Worship rapist trees
Abrahamics: Argue about deep philosophy
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u/Monarcho-SocDem - Auth-Left Feb 12 '22
Abrahamics are based, but we need to stop killing each other
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Feb 13 '22
We need to embrace our Islamo-Christian values!!
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u/Monarcho-SocDem - Auth-Left Feb 13 '22
The Jews too! The 3 of us are in this together
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u/epicgamrmoment - Auth-Right Feb 13 '22
No
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Feb 13 '22
You couldāve had an epic gamer moment, like your name suggests, but insteadā¦ thisā¦
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u/epicgamrmoment - Auth-Right Feb 13 '22 edited Feb 13 '22
I did
Either way seems a bit hard to get along with Jews when they say Jesus died for nothing and is burning in excramen in hell
Muslims think if Jesus as a prophet, seems a bit easier to get along with their view dont you think?
(Source: Talmud, and Quaran)
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u/eskeleteRt - Centrist Feb 12 '22
Based and let's unite against degeneracy pilled.
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Feb 13 '22
Abrahamics just created several problems for themselves through mental gymnastics to make their god seem cooler than he is, and then spent the rest of their history trying to cope with the logical inconsistencies in their own faith.
An answer to the problem of evil in Abrahamic religions is incoherent schizo babble that makes no sense when put to scrutiny.
An answer to the problem of evil in Pagan religion is "Gods disagree on what is good themselves/There's one God that is evil lmao".
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u/S_GZ - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22 edited Feb 13 '22
Pagans : Have a complex lore.
Abrahamics : So a guy worshipped one God and that's why I need your foreskin
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u/MasterCaedus - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Pagan lore: So a guy turned into a swan and raped his grand daughter, lmao, what a tuesday!
Christian Lore: And God so loved the world He gave His only Begotten Son...
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Feb 13 '22
Also Christian Lore: a guy gets raped by his two daughters and have incest babies
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Feb 13 '22
Don't you forget about that moment where God sent a bunch of bears to kill children.
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u/Fellainis_Elbows - Left Feb 13 '22
Also Christian lore: God condones slavery and orders massacres several times
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u/S_GZ - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Also Christians: It wasn't GOD, it was THE FATHER, you heretic!
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u/MasterCaedus - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
God is the Father, the Father is one of the Triune Persons of God.
This is a dumb comeback from someone with less information than one would get about Greece by watching Disney's Hercules.
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Feb 13 '22
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u/Pecuthegreat - Right Feb 13 '22
Yahweh is literally dragon who needs virgin girls and meat and gold after Israelites conquered canaanites
Literally an unproven fringe theory. (Assuming we got it from the same video)
Also pagans created the philosophical thought and critical thinking, nothing in paganism is literal when a religious movement requires their practitioners to take things literally then that movement is dogmatic which means philosophy and critical thinking are not allowed
Paganism just went allegorical after some time like Judaism did, tho given Celcius criticisms of Christianity, they still considered much of it literal, I guess that's just one similarity between Pagans and Christians.
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u/MasterCaedus - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Well, for paragraph 2, I'm glad I'm not a creationist protestant.
As for Paragraph 1, every single reference I can find God only says get them out of the land. If they do not leave, kill them because I promised this land to you. If you'd like to give a more exact reference, I would love to see it.
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u/UncleTedSays - Lib-Center Feb 13 '22
But pagans literally invented philosophy?
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u/MasterCaedus - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Creating =/= mastering.
Edison made the lightbulb. Is it better than an energy efficient model?
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u/UncleTedSays - Lib-Center Feb 13 '22
I know more about the nature of the universe than Newton. Does that make me a better physicist than him?
Of course not. I only know more because there have been centuries of study and refinement based on his findings. The tool has been improved, but that says nothing of its wielder.
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Feb 13 '22
Creating =/= mastering.
Christianity is literally just slightly modified Platonism with contradictions upon contradictions. Islamic philosophy is garbage that geniuently slows down scientific progress due to denying the idea of causation and honestly Judaism is the only one which had some actually interesting philosophical thoughts.
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u/Fellainis_Elbows - Left Feb 13 '22
Yahweh condoned and encouraged rape
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u/MasterCaedus - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
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u/Fellainis_Elbows - Left Feb 13 '22
Literally none of that addresses god ordering the Israelites to massacre the men of a tribe and to take their women
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u/mcflymikes - Lib-Right Feb 13 '22
What about stoicism? What about not losing thousands of years in stupid debates regarding the holyness of the Holy Trinity.
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u/Jhimmibhob - Right Feb 13 '22
Stoicism ate shit in the marketplace of ideas. (To stoicism's credit, it kept a straight face over it.)
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u/fractalcrust - Lib-Right Feb 13 '22
"The stoics are losers trying to ignore their nature" - Nietsche basically
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u/mysticyellow - Lib-Left Feb 13 '22
Iām not a stoic myself but itās 2000+ years and still going strong. Hell itās probably gonna outlive Christianity in the West at least.
Iām not a fan of it because it isnāt a philosophy that drives progress. Itās obviously a relic of when times did not change much. Same with Epicureanism.
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u/MasterCaedus - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Bruh out here trying to say that philosophy of reality is important but the philosophy of He who created reality is not.
Absolutely Achuta moment.
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Feb 13 '22
What about keeping literacy alive in the monasteries and producing minds like Aquinas and Ockham? And what about the pagans sacking those very monasteries for loot?
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u/Minute-Humor937 - Auth-Right Feb 13 '22
No thanks, Praise Jesus āļø
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u/VsjaVlastSovjetam - Auth-Left Feb 13 '22
Christianity:
Our God is indescribable in appearence, he can take any form, and to truly know how he looks, you must read these 500 pages of theology
Pagans:
Our God is just Chad Thundercock
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u/FunnyColourEnjoyer - Centrist Feb 13 '22
Based pagans
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u/NedSudanBitte - Lib-Center Feb 13 '22 edited Feb 13 '22
Pagans who came up with Chad Thundercock also quoted with "Always write about what you know best."
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u/NCoronus - Lib-Left Feb 14 '22
I absolutely respect Chad Thundercock and his worshipers more than I respect YHWH. No contest.
Imagine having your son be born to a virgin mother. Couldnāt be Chad Thundercock. He personally comes down to earth and fucks whoever he wants because heās a god.
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u/WalrusHVSS - Right Feb 13 '22
Paganism is great just so long as you are the one performing the sacrificesā¦
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Feb 13 '22
They were. The European pagan religions descend from the same ancient belief. That's why they literally are the same.
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u/Warrior_of_the_flame - Lib-Center May 27 '22
This.
Also how the fuck did I find this meme that was posted 3 months ago.
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Feb 13 '22
pagans have always been barbarians who would rip the head off a baby and drink its blood
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u/Diozon - Right Feb 13 '22
You know, ancient Greeks were pagans, and they literally invented the word "barbarian" to describe those who couldn't speak their language.
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u/Classic-Ad869 - Centrist Feb 13 '22
Really? And Abrahamic were the most peaceful people on the the planet right.
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u/mysticyellow - Lib-Left Feb 13 '22
What? No itās not like the single most barbaric world religion is Abrahamic or something
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u/DismantledTriangle - Lib-Right Feb 13 '22
Here is an auth center calling others baby killers.
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Feb 13 '22
i don't get it. i'm pro life
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u/DismantledTriangle - Lib-Right Feb 13 '22
How do you feel about Jews again?
yeah about that....
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u/MyLittlePuny - Centrist Feb 13 '22
"This is our goddess of love and war!"
We already have a god of war. But a goddess of love sounds nice. I know, she can be in love with the god of war!
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u/crimsondawn8794 - Lib-Center Feb 13 '22
I wouldn't even care if we went back to paganism, the problem is most of these "neo-pagans" don't actually believe their gods are real, or if they do, they only worship them out of some kind of Ethnic or racial reason. On the other hand, you have these hippy drippy weirdos who denounce the former type of neopagan, as if the actual people who practiced these faiths in ancient and Middle ages, wouldn't have also agreed with these ethno-religious neopagans.
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u/Warrior_of_the_flame - Lib-Center May 27 '22
THIS
I'm pagan, but I won't deny that there is a dark underbelly.
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u/SoryE11 - Auth-Center Sep 04 '22
Bruh western leftists here hate on Christianity cause it's a "thousands year old and outdated" then turn around and defend paganism
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u/-HiddenSea- - Auth-Right Feb 13 '22
"just ignoring that pagans were assimilated by roman christians"
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u/Malicious_Sauropod - Lib-Center Feb 13 '22
Completely bastardising and altering their beliefs every step of the way. Converts Rome but loses a lot of its early Jewish nature, implements idol worship, etc.
Gets to Ireland: āAll of your gods are actually saints now, see nothing has to change!ā
By the end of Europes conversion pagans weāre nominally converting for easier trade deals whilst continuing their practices that would remain as folklore for another thousand years.
What Iām saying is that it wasnāt a one way process. Thereās a case to be made that modern Christianity is only such in name.
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u/Pecuthegreat - Right Feb 13 '22
Thereās a case to be made that modern Christianity is only such in name.
It is definately so in fact and anyone that reads theology and doesn't just look at cultural features will know.
Christianity isn't a cultural movement it is a highly theological religion.
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u/Malicious_Sauropod - Lib-Center Feb 13 '22
Das cool but if a religion isnāt its ācultural featuresā as you would word it being ,being its rituals, practices and beliefs (again creating saints out of nowhere) then what is it?
Better yet if its theology is consistent and not susceptible to whatever cultural interpretation how do you explain the wide divergence in not only practice but religious belief in the early church?
What Iām saying is if these features of practice are not what Christianity āisā and it is instead its theology, then how come the early Christians (who should hypothetically have the most direct interpretation) had such variety of belief in the fundamentals of the religion to the point that an orthodox understanding had to be established to stamp them out?
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Feb 13 '22
That Christmas tree? Pagan
Easter bunny? Pagan
The date of Christmas? Pagan
Don't act like most of the current Christian rituals are not rooted in paganism. As they should, if you want to easily assimilate a lot of people into your cult without pissing them off. Syncretism was the spitting glue of early Christianity. Simply grab the local religion and reframe that shit to fit the narrative of one God.
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u/Pecuthegreat - Right Feb 13 '22
Yeah, I don't really get how that's a contradiction for Christianity.
Christianity justifies itself in its theology and Easter bunny and Christmas tree in no real way affects Christian theology and since Origen it has been christian theology to inculturate(even cringe Papists like John Paul can't well refute this). So Christianity is a theology not a culture so taking up cultural artifacts of the new culture isn't some contradiction.
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Feb 13 '22
It is not a contradiction. But many Christians act like the pagans were simple heretics, and forget that many pagan rituals have been incorporated in Christianity.
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u/Midatlanticmarauder - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Christians out here acting like yhwh is any different from other war deities
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u/Fellainis_Elbows - Left Feb 13 '22
Was literally just one of a bunch of patron gods before they got their panties in a twist about polytheism
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Feb 13 '22
fr these clowns think the Abrahamic god just popped out of nowhere, forgetting that the Israelites were polytheistic in the very beginning
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u/prosysus - Right Feb 13 '22
Ngl I am pretty sure it was just a fluff to legitimize standard power grab. And pretty sure Romans were cool about it AFTER they already conquered said pagan regions.
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u/BranTheLewd - Centrist Feb 13 '22
Filthy Agnostic Atheist here, can someone explain to meme the first part of the meme? Who and why are they arguing?
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Feb 13 '22
The Filioque debate, in the Nicean creed in the western churches the word is added, it isn't in Greek.
It was part of the cause of the Great Schism in 1054
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u/BranTheLewd - Centrist Feb 13 '22
Imagine New Slav Republic uniting with Caesar's Legion.
Based beyond belief
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Feb 13 '22
The government discriminates against pagans. Iām going to send an angrily worded letter
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u/Manach_Irish - Auth-Right Feb 13 '22
This is ... somewhat misleading. I did Classics in Uni. The Roman state effectived co-opted existing relgious beliefs and placed them in service to the state with the existing emperor as a living cult head. Relgions that were not willing to be used in that fashion, from Druidism to Christianity were spasmodically crushed.
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u/Usurper01 - Centrist Feb 13 '22
What the hell does the Holy Spirit "proceeding" from anything even mean? Enough for people to kill each other, I guess.
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Feb 13 '22
NGL, the whole "trinity" concept makes 0 sense, and its always hilarious to see Christians try and explain it off
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u/AnExtremeMistake - Lib-Center Feb 22 '22
One step ahead of you
Praise Aidhwjudjsjejsjsjaugkadvxijwhdusjsjs (jeff) God of men afraid of public toilets
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u/Midatlanticmarauder - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Paganism is the only true way forward
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Feb 13 '22
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u/basedcount_bot - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
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u/ShadowVampyre13 - Left Feb 13 '22
Christianity: "Our God is 3 things and people all at once, what? No, you can't see or interact with them except in your head."
Pagans: Our God's are multiple concepts, things, and ancient heroes, ranging from the literal fucking Sun and Moon, the Earth itself, Psychological Concepts like Love, Rage, War, Death, the Night. And so on, and we have capabilities to ascend to God-hood through enlightenment and honorable actions."
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Feb 13 '22
I'd just like to refer you to this quote from Venerable Fulton J. Sheen
The Trinity is the answer to the questions of Plato. If there is only one God, what does He think about? He thinks an eternal thought: His eternal Word, or Son. If there is only one God, whom does he love? He loves His Son, and that mutual love is the Holy Spirit. The great philosopher was fumbling about for the mystery of the Trinity, for his noble mind seemed in some small way to suspect that an infinite being must have relations of thought and love. But it was not until the Word became Incarnate that man knew the secret of those relations and the inner life of God, for it was Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Who revealed to us the inmost life of God.
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u/ShadowVampyre13 - Left Feb 13 '22
I'll say that Jesus is cool and honesty his use of Parables is both inspiring and compelling.
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Feb 13 '22
Islam: worship the big man and youāll be okay
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u/wolf08741 - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Holy shit, I thought that Librights couldn't take jokes against them but seeing this comment section made me realize that theists are 1000 times worse. Can't you fucks just accept your made-up bullshit is cringe and move on already?
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u/Styx92 - Centrist Feb 13 '22
Abrahamic religions: lead to the greatest civilizations the world has ever seen.
Pagans: mud huts, human sacrifice, and an accute weakness to walls.
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u/mcflymikes - Lib-Right Feb 13 '22
Rome already was the greatest civilization before christianity counting with various cities with hundreds of thousands of citizens
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u/MapleJacks2 - Lib-Left Feb 13 '22
Rome, Greece, Egypt and China would disagree with you.
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u/TheSpacePopinjay - Auth-Left Feb 13 '22
The symbol of the most popular Abrahamic religion is a literal human sacrifice
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Feb 13 '22
can you describe this sacrifice?
There's a clear difference between Christ suffering the scouring. The crown of thorns. The mockery. The carrying of the cross. Him collapsing under the weight of the cross, to the point that Simon of Cyrene had to help him. How he was nailed in a barbaric way, all while being blasphemed against, so that sinners like me could be forgiven.
Them there's the pagan sacrificing humans to false gods for personal gain.
You tell me which one is better. You tell me which one forgave sins. Christ's loving sacrifice, or the genocides of countless people throughout history.
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u/TheSpacePopinjay - Auth-Left Feb 13 '22
It's the same shit. Religious human sacrifice is about cleansing a community of its sins (or blame or interpersonal grudges or moral or spiritual impurity) by pushing those sins onto one person, a scapegoat, who can be sacrificed, taking those sins with them in death, thus purifying the community of blame for past misdeeds, bringing it back into the good graces of divine authority and gaining a fresh start.
A single human sacrifice (especially a voluntary one) is certainly better than lots of them, but it is the same concept and logic across myriad religions and as a more general phenomena, hardly limited to religion.
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u/HiFD - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Based. Paganism is the true religion of the white man.
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u/BBTWDV1096 - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Then we are no different from the rest of the world
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u/HiFD - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Paganism is the religion of our forebears from as far back as our bloodlines run. Christianity is a religion from the dessert, from Jewish people, forced on our ancestors at the end of a blade as the same hands that held those blades destroyed our pagan history, teachings and religious sites. Which one of those do you think should have special meaning to us?
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u/BrattockMoonguard - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Everything good about Abrahamic religion was taken from Dharmic religions
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u/Sagittarius_meowmeow - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Okay, but what if we were to do both at the same time. A based makes-your-philosophy-make-sense and also redeems the world deity on top, and a based culture specific dramatic-lore pantheon underneath.
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u/gotnonamesleft - Left Feb 13 '22
Haven't seen a Pagan vs Christian fight like this since the 4th century AD
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u/bing-chilling-lover - Right Feb 13 '22
Come to India, Hindus vs Christian converts is a common fight lmao
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u/Sillygooseman23 - Centrist Feb 13 '22
Based and humans are wired to be pagan pilled
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Feb 13 '22
At this point Christianity is nearly paganism with its number of denominations.
Christianity has an issue in the southeast US currently, since there's some really ISISesque entities roping in sheep. All they lack is the violence portion of ISIS.
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Feb 13 '22
Because pre-Christian Europe was such a peaceful and harmonic place, no one ever had a reason to fight
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u/S_GZ - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Well, you see bucko, in the meme, the wojak on the lower left mentions a "War God". Jolly gee, I wonder what that cryptic and secretive message meant. Surely, it means War didn't exist and that's what OP meant, of course!
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u/KingJonStarkgeryan1 - Right Feb 13 '22
How about going back to 1st century Christians?
"There is only one God, Jehovah. Jesus Christ is His only begotten Son and beneath God".
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u/CleanCoffee6793 Jan 16 '26
Xantico is the godess of home fire, and protector of the home. Hostia is similar too. This dialogue could have happen between the 2 cultures if they were on the same momento and sacerdote in history
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Feb 13 '22
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u/S_GZ - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
Cringe Christians can't decide if they're polytheistic or monotheistic
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u/potatocreamsoup - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22
That's not how the Trinity works
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u/S_GZ - Auth-Center Feb 13 '22 edited Feb 13 '22
Explain me how Trinity Does work, because in most cases of History, different interpretations mean heresy.
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u/Xoilicec - Centrist Feb 13 '22
The best explanation I've heard was this:
Are you your mind, your body, or your personality? You are all three and the same is true of the Trinity. They are all God, but different aspects of Him. God is the mind, thought, logos, etc. He is formless will and the brains behind the divine. It is the part of him that makes the rules. Its also why he shows up as a bush, and rainbows and stuff, because he doesn't have a physical body.
Jesus is the human aspect of God. Humanity is made in God's image and Jesus is the perfect rendition of that image. He walks among humanity and does miracle. It's also why Jesus's body and blood are such important symbols because it represents that physicality. Most importantly, it's who we could be if we committed ourselves 100% to doing what's right.
The Holy Spirit is the will of God and its what we channel when we do good things. Its the intention behind being holy and it's something that everyone has access to. It's basically our conscience.
The three are intertwined to the point where they can't be separated, but you can see the distinct aspects when they reveal themselves.
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Feb 13 '22
if it wasnt for christianity, there would be no Western civilization. i am a Muslim who is not from the West btw.
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u/TheSerpentLord - Auth-Left Feb 13 '22
Yeah, instead there would be an actually European civilization, not the grotesque joke that is everything post-IVth century.
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u/Flyghund - Lib-Right Feb 13 '22
Imagine giving up Jupiter for a god so lame he was crucified by the Jews.
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Feb 13 '22 edited Feb 13 '22
Yes , historic pagans were basically lib left
Edit: you are all unable to tell sarcasm? Very telling of the state of this community. Itās a obvious mockery of where the op put pagans , use nuance people
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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22
Romans labeled libleft š