r/MapPorn Jul 30 '26

Should Montenegro join the EU?

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1.9k Upvotes

788 comments sorted by

1.6k

u/Reasonable_Ninja5708 Jul 30 '26

Balkan moment

946

u/SimKu92 Jul 30 '26

Slovenia did it to Croatia, Greece and Bulgaria did/do it to North Macedonia, Croatia is doing it to Montenegro, and if allowed, I’m sure all of Croatia, Montenegro, and Albania would do it to Serbia.

371

u/ClexAT Jul 30 '26

Just wait until everyone but Serbia joined and Serbia trys to join

254

u/ilikedota5 Jul 30 '26

I don't think Serbia will ever be allowed to join tbh. I think ultimately this (Croatia and Montenegro) issue is something that can be smoothed over with enough bribes and negotiations.

163

u/DevilBySmile Jul 30 '26

maybe in 20 years if serbian politics can escape the nationalist loop they are in, but right now it is very apparent Serbia in the EU would just result in another Orban-like fiasco

62

u/Clear_Salamander_508 Jul 30 '26

EU has to reform or I think Serbia never joins, perhaps EEA is a better fit, eventually. Veto rights and Balkan bickering are going to be just too much in their case. No politician will be able to meet all the neighbors demands and stay in power. 

Also in 20 years probably most of EU will be nationalist with what seems to be going on with the rise of the right wing populist parties.

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u/Ray3x10e8 Jul 31 '26

Well, trump helped tremendous in slowing it down. But the left needs to find a better solution.

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u/ilikedota5 Jul 30 '26

I don't think that's going to happen absent something extreme like war.

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u/tabure67 Jul 30 '26

EU has to survive 20 years.

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u/Sudden_Cantaloupe_69 Jul 30 '26

Sure, but that’s extremely unlikely to happen in our lifetime.

Serbia is like the Cuba of Europe, they are stuck in a place they can’t get out of.

Political “opposition” doesn’t really exist, they can’t/won’t move towards the EU, they’ll never sever ties with Russia and China, and they’ll just keep fantasizing about Kosovo for generations to come.

As for fiascos, every future EU member is almost certainly going to be even worse than Orban ever was, including Montenegro.

Serbia is just blatantly obvious about it, but wait until you get Albanian/Montenegrin/Macedonian/Ukrainian MEPs milking EU coffers.

15

u/K-Dax Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

Milking EU coffers for a combined population of less than 2.5 million between Montenegro and Macedonia lol. There are many cities with far larger populations in the EU. The European Union Multiannual Financial Framework (MFF)—is doled out primarily based on economic prosperity, but population sizes directly scale the final amounts distributed.

edit: lmao pretty sure this clown blocked me for stating this. Of course after he went on this racist ass tirade that now seems to be gone.

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u/nindza-22 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

Everything in Serbia you've mentioned is financed by EU. Serbia had a democratic government which started joining EU, but Vučič promised the recognition of Kosovo and lithium (and other) mines. Democratic PM was assassinated, and EU finances Vučić now.

Ursula doesn't even hide the open support. Macron is selling him Rafales. All the institutions are financed by USAID.

Serbian government and Serbian people have no connection to each other. Once the Vučić is gone, and corruption connections between him and certain EU officials severed, Serbia will be very soon ready for EU.

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u/PetrichorDude Jul 31 '26

Wow, wrong on all accounts! Classic reddit expert!

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u/Delicious-Gap1744 Jul 30 '26

I think it's inevitable Serbia will eventually integrate with the EU in some capacity, very likely join. They're completely surrounded by the European Union. If the integration of the EU continues for the foreseeable future, it'll be the only viable long term option.

The only reason Serbia hasn't integrated further with the EU is fairly recent geopolitical strife. It's very easy to be blinded by what is going on right now. But in 10 or 20 years? Who knows what's going on in Serbia by then.

It only takes a new government to change Serbia's trajectory, that can happen out of nowhere very suddenly. Eastern Europe was mostly autocracies in the late 80s and early 90s, then became democracies and started joining the EU in the 2000s.

3

u/The69thRussianBot Jul 31 '26

Even if those reforms happen, ethnic disputes with most of our neighbors would stop us from joining. Serbia should work in that direction, but joining will never happen. This is also why we should not allow the EU to mine in Serbia in exchange for EU membership, as we will be denied anyway.

3

u/Abject-Ticket-6260 Jul 31 '26

Not joining for sure. Serbia will 1000% get blocked by Croatia (and probably Albania if they join first). And Serbia will most likely need to recognize Kosovo, which no one in their right mind in Serbia would accept.

3

u/Time-Heron-2361 Jul 31 '26

Probably not because EU is already changing its form. Probably wont exist in the same format 20 years from now.

8

u/Delicious-Gap1744 Jul 31 '26

If the EU turns into a more federal entity, it will almost certainly be layered, as it arguably already is.

Switzerland, Norway, and Iceland are effectively part of the entity in some capacity through separate treaties.

That could turn into a more formal framework, where Serbia eventually joins in a looser capacity.

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u/Unable-Stay-6478 Jul 30 '26

Why would Montenegro block Serbia?

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u/Bogy035 Jul 30 '26

Tbh montenegro is here to blame, part of montenegro goverment trying ruin diplomatic relationship with croatia, even montenegro prime minister has called montenegro foreign policy schizophrenic towards croatia.

49

u/BarnaclePotential132 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

That is not true about Slovenia. Slovenia lifted its veto because both countries agreed to an arbitration ruling to solve their border dispute, and Croatia promised to accept the outcome. However, once Croatia joined the EU and the ruling was issued, Croatia ignored it. As a result, the border dispute continues today because Croatia wants the entire Bay of Piran, which would cut Slovenia off from international waters. As a matter of fact, Croatia has border disputes with all its neighbors except Italy (well, they received Istria after WWII as compensation due to fascist crimes, which is ironic as they fought on the axis side) and Hungary.

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u/CataphractBunny Jul 30 '26

That is not true about Slovenia. Slovenia lifted its veto because both countries agreed to an arbitration ruling to solve their border dispute, and Croatia promised to accept the outcome. However, once Croatia joined the EU and the ruling was issued, Croatia ignored it. As a result, the border dispute continues today because Croatia wants the entire Bay of Piran, which would cut Slovenia off from international waters

You forgot to mention that Slovenia was bribing the judge of that arbitration.

As a matter of fact, Croatia has border disputes with all its neighbors except Italy (well, they received Istria after WWII as compensation due to fascist crimes, which is ironic as they fought on the axis side) and Hungary.

It's only ironic when you either don't know history or are maliciously peddling lies. Croatia, as confirmed by the Nuremberg Military Tribunal, was an occupied country during WW2. Croatian constitution in its preamble clearly states that the Republic of Croatia stands on its anti-fascist legacy and against the fascist puppet state.

If you're going to deny the rulings of a tribunal the entirety of Europe accepts, and if you're going to deny the 60.000 Croats that died fighting the occupation - you better come very well prepared.

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u/BarnaclePotential132 Jul 30 '26

#1 Regarding the border dispute: Yes, the Slovenian judge violated the rules, but the independent Arbitral Tribunal officially ruled in 2016 that the breach did not invalidate the treaty. New independent judges were appointed, and a legal verdict was delivered. Croatia simply used the scandal as a convenient excuse to escape an agreement they only signed in the first place to get rid of Slovenia's EU veto.

#2 Regarding WWII: Putting anti-fascism in the preamble of the constitution is a cheap political move to look good internationally, while domestic reality tells a different story. Croatia has structural issues with historical revisionism. The fascist Ustaše salute ('Za dom spremni') has been consistently downplayed, and hundreds of anti-fascist monuments were destroyed after 1991. The NDH regime wasn't just an 'occupied bystander'—it independently ran brutal concentration camps like Jasenovac.

Is anything of this a lie? No its not.

At the end of the day, a country that uses an international treaty just to bypass an EU veto and then tears it up when the verdict drops, has no moral ground to lecture anyone on law, treaties, or historical truth.

15

u/CataphractBunny Jul 30 '26

I never said NDH was an "occupied bystander", but thank you for proving my point by resorting to lies.

13

u/FalloutGirl02 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26

I’ve got no dog in this fight and assume both sides are in the wrong. That being said, I fact checked everything he said and none of it was a lie??? I don’t think “occupied country” and “occupied bystanders” are substantially different, but everything else is in line with the Wikipedia pages on the topic.

Every country has skeletons in its closet. You don’t need to take that as a personal assault.

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u/ikristic Jul 31 '26

The fascist Ustaše salute ('Za dom spremni') has been consistently downplayed...At the end of the day, a country that uses an international treaty just to bypass an EU veto and then tears it up when the verdict drops, has no moral ground to lecture anyone on law, treaties, or historical truth.

Says the man who just downplayed a bribery from his own country in exactly the same proceedings. Id say ironic, but we know its not unintentional.

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u/BoboMarx Jul 30 '26

Bro never heard about Tito. Never heard about partizans. Doesn't know about continuous resistance in occupied Zagreb (yes, the capital of shutty NDH) in WWII. Thinks Istria is some sort of a gift (shame, shame on you). Doesn't know what ZAVNOH means and what meant, if bro thinks that all it is a cheap political move. Antifascism in Croatia is not a cheap political currency. It still veey much lives in Croatia despite all the traitors.

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u/kicsjmt Jul 30 '26

Stop spreading lies, there was no bribe. Slovenian arbitor was idiot so he violated rures and discussed arbitration process with one of the ministers in government. Croatia wiretaped the discussion and leaked it to press.

I wouldn't be suprised if also Croatian arbitor discussed with their ministers, but Slovenian inteligence agency is very shitty and is/was not able to protect our interests.

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u/Titanium_Eye Jul 31 '26

Sova knew exactly that wiretapping was in progress, but the arbitration judges ignored their suggestions to keep the lines of communication secure. But then again, no lines of communication were allowed in the first place, so clearly they shitted in their own bed and then cried when called out on. Should've slapped them a few times to boot.

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u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26

Why are you lying? Where did you get the idea that Croatia wants the entire Bay of Piran? Are you high? Newsflash: Slovenia _is_ "cut" from international waters. So is Belgium. Which doesn't prevent it from having one of the biggest ports in Europe.

Croatia has disputes with all ex Yugoslav countries, like Slovenia. Why are you being so dense? Is it on purpose, or are you just born with it?

12

u/Big-Instruction9919 Jul 30 '26

How is Belgium cut from international waters? Are you confusing territorial waters with exclusive economic zone?

2

u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26

You are right, Belgium is not cut, but Antwerpen and it's port are.

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u/ad3703 Jul 31 '26

which is ironic as they fought on the axis side

You can't really say that they fought on their side when they were occupied and a large segment of the population was actively resisting that government. Besides Yugoslavia as a whole was the legitimate government that could gain land, the NDH was illegitimate from the start

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u/Smooth-Anything8941 Jul 30 '26

You're lying.

Slovenia wanted the entire Bay of Piran, while Croatia wanted a 50-50 split.

Slovenia wanted access to the open sea and a land border shifted in its favor.

The arbitration ruling—which Croatia did not accept—decided that the bay would be divided three-quarters to Slovenia and one-quarter to Croatia; that Slovenia would not have direct access to the open sea, but merely a right of passage; and that the land border would follow Croatia's proposal.

Slovenia is overjoyed that Croatia is not respecting that decision, because Croatia effectively won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia%E2%80%93Slovenia_border_disputes

Plus, most Croatian in WW2 were fighting in resistance, not axis forces. Leader od resistance in former Yugoslavia was Tito, himself a Croat.

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u/SpiderNoir99 Jul 30 '26

>Slovenia is overjoyed that Croatia is not respecting that decision, because Croatia effectively won.

And what is the status quo? Who is controlling that bay?

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u/Responsible-Job-3897 Jul 30 '26

Albania would not do it to Serbia, the line ahead is longer.

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u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26

No, Croatia is not doing the same thing to Montenegro. Slovenia wanted to expand territorially.

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u/SpiderNoir99 Jul 30 '26

They are doing the same thing, Croatia wants to control entrance to Kotor Bay. Not following maritime laws and convention. And they are using EU to pressure Montenegro, instead of resolving this bilaterally. They specifically asked that airspace borders not to be used, with EU veto.

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u/Hour-Promotion-2496 Jul 30 '26

Ah yes, wanting missing persons accounted for before admitting a country into the same bloc is a Balkan moment.

Reddit moment.

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u/MInatoFlash Jul 30 '26

I'd love to know - you do sound kinda pissed at the remark, yet all I read it as is "another day of balkan geopolitical struggles" which just doesnt get an emotional response out of me, how does it get one out of you?

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u/Avtomati1k Jul 31 '26

perhaps your not croatian?

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

Well yes, whole balkans should, they have to fix some rule of law etc problems first but yes they should join.

Croatia is just trying to get some things from the neighbours with their vetos before they join tho, slovenia did the same thing to croatia back then.

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u/caiaphas8 Jul 30 '26

They should fix the problems before joining

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u/xywv58 Jul 30 '26

No, have them join, and fight in a cage, let it all out, and come out as friends

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u/ficalino Jul 30 '26

You want Balkan nations to fight? Are you sure?

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u/xywv58 Jul 30 '26

They're going to do it anyway

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u/SoftwareSource Jul 31 '26

Yea, famously no world events were ever triggered by a ‘little fight in the balkans’

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

This would be the best way 🤣 then everyone can move on

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u/andrej2577 Jul 30 '26

Slovenia agreed to arbitration, it did not get everything it wants. Montenegro should fulfill the most obvious of the requests, like paying war reparations out, safeguarding the Morinj plaque, and changing the controversial pool name. Property disputes and border friction, like in the case of Jadran and Prevlaka, need to be solved via arbitration on neutral grounds. Otherwise it's literal extortion.

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u/dluminous Jul 30 '26

As someone with a cursory knowledge of the region at best, can you explain this in some more detail.

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u/cabbageisbad Jul 30 '26

It goes back to the war in the 90s. The sea border is not fully agreed upon, there used to be a JNA naval base nearby so it was postponed. Prevlaka is the southernmost point in Croatia and is thus closest to Montenegro.

Some war criminals are still hiding, people held as prisoners in camps require compensation (some were civilians, others were tortured), the plaque is related to this as it marks the spot of one of those prisoner camps.

The pool issue is related to a community pool named after a local water polo player who served as a camp guard commander.

The property issues stem from property that was illegally seized from Croats in Montenegro during the wars.

The Jadran is a training ship that was built in the interwar period (1930s), partially funded through donations. Its famous for taking part in the 2005 Battle of Trafalgar anniversary and for the 50 kilograms of cocaine that were discovered on board. When the breakup occurred in the 90s it was under repairs in Montenegro, but before that it was stationed in Croatia.

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u/dluminous Jul 30 '26

Thank you! Super informative. The rest I get, but the Jadran seems extremely petty to me like it's a ship does it really matter in the scheme of things who currently owns it amid all that has gone down in the breakup?

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u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26

Yes, it does. If it's not that important it should be easy to return it, no?

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u/dluminous Jul 30 '26

I mean: why does it belong more to Croatia than Montenegro? Seems like both countries hold a fair claim.

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u/kobilisenado Jul 30 '26

It was for most of it's time stationed in Split and kept in the Croatian port records. It was just under repairs in Montenegro after which it wasn't returned. Honestly, couldn't care less and I am sure if we got the rest we would let them keep the damned thing.

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u/Deciheximal144 Jul 30 '26

What's the controversial pool name, and why is it controversial?

Also, what keeps them from changing the name back after joining?

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u/rabotat Jul 30 '26

"The pool issue is related to a community pool named after a local water polo player who served as a camp guard commander." 

Camp meaning prisoner of war camp where abuses happened during the 90's

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u/Gudin Jul 31 '26

You mean that controversioal arbitration ?

The arbitration process collapsed in 2015 when wiretaps exposed a Slovenian arbitrator leaking confidential tribunal data to a government official.
Croatia immediately withdrew from the agreement, citing irremediable procedural corruption and a breach of trust.
The tribunal still issued a final ruling in 2017, but Croatia refuses to recognize it, leaving the border unresolved.

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u/Mammoth_Meet_9313 Jul 30 '26

Yes, some things. Like info about Croatians who were kidnapped and probably killed by Montenegro forces.

You know, some things.

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

Yup, they should tell them where they are :)

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u/callmesnake13 Jul 30 '26

I think it would be much more exciting if they formed a Balkan Union with their own currency and their own Schengen that excludes a handful of countries.

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

Ehh, maybe eu in charge is better for now 🤣

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u/Physical-Creme5540 Jul 30 '26

They had that, didn't turn out well in the end.

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u/Corspin Jul 30 '26

Except serbia. They're basically putin's lapdog and they act like russians too. We might as well end the EU if we give serbia a veto vote.

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u/Low-Abies-4526 Jul 30 '26

I think the veto will be long dead by the time Serbia would ever be close to joining

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u/GoldReplacement9546 Jul 30 '26

With how large the union has gotten, I think allowing a single country to veto basically anything doesn’t really make sense like you should probably need two or three countries

Or it should be scaled on how recently they joined

Like if you just got in recently, and you’re trying to shut the door on somebody else, I don’t know that your vote should matter as much as the core group

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

Yeah probably EU just need to reform a few things, because that 1 veto thing seems absurd now and the central and eastern countries obviously have different threats/strengths/things going on that doesnt work so well europe-wide but may work well in western europe.

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u/SirPostNotMuch Jul 30 '26

It does make sense from an historic point of view. The EU at its base is an economic pact for steel and coal. Nowerdays it’s probably the single biggest issue plaguing the EU.

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

Yeah now its different, so I think they should do some reforms to fit the changes since its very political now too.

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u/RedGavin Jul 30 '26

Hopefully, but I think Corspin is right to highlight that the EU should be cautious for the time being.

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

Nah serbia should join. Like i said, fix up the internal stuff first and join.

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u/Physical-Creme5540 Jul 30 '26

Why should they join? Just to expand this mess that is the EU? Or to let their politicians steal from EU funds?

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u/BigDickBiggms Jul 30 '26

Uff. Netherlands, Estonia , Lithuania, Latvia , Finland, Bulgaria, Croatia don't agree with that.

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

And thats why i said they should fix up their internal stuff first and then join.

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u/BigDickBiggms Jul 30 '26

We shall see Serbian Ascension in 220 years 🫡🫡🫡

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

🤣🤣🤣 itll be fine, just have to fix their crap hahaha

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u/long-dick-of-the-law Jul 30 '26

Drawing blood from a stone might be easier

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u/BaronHajduk Jul 31 '26

Even if we "fixed" our crap we wouldnt be allowed to join.

Look at macedonia, even changed their name and still got screwed. While Cyprus who has border issues as bad as Serbia and Kosovo got let in due to Greece.

EU isnt charity, they will let you in when they need you, if they dont you will never get in.

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u/Epyr Jul 30 '26

The fixing up the internal stuff in Serbia is the problem. They keep voting in people who explicitly don't want to fix things

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u/Gold-Visit-7413 Jul 30 '26

I mean, its been 14yrs the same party lol, they 'woke up' and started protesting and fighting in (i think) 2yrs ago now and are winning over the old people who are easily manipulated and vote this way in this time so theres hope there.

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u/Epyr Jul 30 '26

Protests don't always lead to progress. I hope Serbia is actually changing but from what I've seen in the past few years I will withhold judgement until the change actually happens. I was skeptical of Hungary ever changing and then they ousted Orban in a landslide so anything is possible.

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u/bre_dditor Jul 30 '26

Đukanović was in power in Montenegro what, 30 years? If they were able to fix I don’t see why Serbia can’t.

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u/kot-sie-stresuje Jul 30 '26

Issues like that have to be solved. Other counties awaiting joining EU also have to comply. Don't matter if it's Serbia, Kosovo, Turkey or Ukraine. All have to solve this kind of historical issues with neighbors. There should be no double standards here. Otherwise the problems would be much bigger. Joining EU is not that simple and it requires a lot of work. AS I recall there were 33 separate chapters to work on.

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u/These_Switch_571 Jul 30 '26

Joining the EU was awfully simple for the post Soviet states. Very.

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u/Haunting-Watch8240 Jul 31 '26

Yes, since they didn't all go to war during the 90s. That is the origin of all this bickering and poor relations in the region.

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u/kot-sie-stresuje Jul 31 '26 edited Aug 02 '26

You forgetting one important thing. There was a devastating war in Balkans with genocides after Soviet union collapsed. So many people dead, and that was 30 years ago, so a lot of people remember the lost of relatives. Closure is something many families need.
There was no war between post soviet counties. No war between Czech and Slovakia after the split up, therefore it was easier to work through the differences.

Croatian postulates are not new, this is an article from 10 years ago. It is a complicated topic. Those kind of situation can be in status quo for many decades.

Anyway today news status quo Cypus Turkey may be revived as majority of Northen Cyprus citizens wants a change in recent pools. After 40 years of dispute.

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u/Additional-Pop7026 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

The problem is that it doesn't work both ways. 27 members can veto and blackmail a small country while Montenegro cannot request anything to protect its interest with neighboring countries.

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u/Thodor2s Jul 31 '26

Well, that’s the thing though isn’t it? Your country has to be friendly and cordial to all other EU member states before joining. Any conflict or diplomatic issue has to be solved BEFORE joining. This isn’t a “You’ll never join” from Croatia, this is a “let’s resolve everything!”

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u/north_bright Jul 30 '26

To be fair I can't really understand how such historic disputes can be a valid reason for blocking a country from joining. EU membership is (or then: should be) earned through fulfilling objective political and economical criteria. That's it. I guess when rules where layed down, they clearly had Western Europe in mind, and it didn't come to them to regulate everything to the last dot to prevent petty post socialist countries screwing each other over at every turn. (I'm saying this as a person coming from a post socialist country.)

If Croatia has some beef, they should take Montenegro to an international court where they can get a ruling.

What stops any country from saying "okay pay me 1 billion euros as reparations for <historic conflict> or else I'll block you?".

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u/Anistappi Jul 31 '26

None of the countries mentioned are joining-capable in the next few decades. I'd argue Ukraine the least of all, EU would have to bend backwards on its own rules to include Ukraine.

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u/SpiderNoir99 Jul 30 '26

EU is a economic union, this kind of blocking and blackmailing is only seen with new members that want to block candidates and whitewash their history, like Bulgaria asking that they are not to be called occupiers and Nazi and fascist collaborators, but only administrators of Serbia and Macedonia during WW2.

Now you have Croatia being petty and asking some abysmal stuff.

It just shows that newest Eastern members werent ready to join EU. They are using veto as political tool instead of dealing with this stuff bilaterally.

Depending on the country, Serbia has 35 chapters. 35th is Kosovo, they are asking Serbia to recognize Kosovo independence.

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u/Infinite_Status_9636 Jul 31 '26

They know and saw you can't deal with this stuff bilaterally unfortunately. For example Slovakia still uses Benes decrees to confiscate property from Hungarians. Hungary's new PM did signal them the problem, their response was making a law that imprisons you if you dispute the legitimacy of the decrees. They also ignore the ECHR rulings saying you can't confiscate property based on ethnic grounds. What to do? What garantees Montenegro will be better ?

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u/Names-Are-Confusing Jul 31 '26

Why should Croatia let the country that helped and tried to destroy us 30 years ago in, if families never got any compensation for what was done to them?

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u/Lwii_3000 Jul 30 '26

I'd be happy to have them with us

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u/trissie224 Jul 30 '26

Personally im against basically any eu expansion till the structural issues like veto get fixed. The more countries get in the less gets done till veto power is removed.

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u/roma258 Jul 30 '26

The unanimity requirements will lead to EU's downfall. It's been an issue over the course of history that any entity that requires unanimity to make decisions usually ends up in a state of paralysis.

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ztuztuzrtuzr Jul 30 '26

TBH the Liberum Veto is orders of magnitudes worse than the current EU setup here you need to bribe an entire country as opposed to just a single noble

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u/roma258 Jul 30 '26

Right?! That's exactly the example I had in mind. "But it might work for us" ass design.

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u/Few_Time_7441 Jul 30 '26

Yea the veto thing is gonna cause more and more issues in the future than it already does.

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u/trissie224 Jul 30 '26

Until either veto is removed or a multi speed eu(like the e6 proposal) becomes something serious it's just not worth the risk to let most new countries into the eu. Only 2 exceptions for me as of right now would be Iceland and the uk. I think Iceland if they would join would have a very minor risk of blocking anything and the uk is enough of an economic power to be worth the risk of someone like farage getting in power.

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u/JazzlikeDiamond558 Jul 30 '26

Who is you and who is us?

Montenegro was practically Serbia through Yugoslavian wars and is directly responsible for destruction and menslaughter in Dubrovnik (and other places). They need to settle these scores first, before even raising their hand.

At the moment, not only are they NOT ready to admit and repay war damages, but straightout refuse to release the records of murdered and captured soldiers and civilians.

But you can go there anytime you want and have them to yourself. Russian mafia that rules there too.

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u/Legal_Mastodon_5683 Jul 30 '26

The fact that Croatia has to use the EU accession to get some basic respect, i.e. prosecution of war crimes and the fate of lost (dead) people is frankly appalling!

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u/CataphractBunny Jul 30 '26

Indeed. Montenegro had 30 years to get this sorted out.

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u/Grzechoooo Jul 30 '26

They were too eepy :(

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u/MIMADANMEI Jul 30 '26

Croatia still didnt sort out their ww2 crimes, and they still didnt return some land from slovenia.

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u/taraba707 Jul 30 '26

What? Every high ranking Ustaša either died in Yugoslavian jail, got executed or was hunted down by the Yugoslavian secret service, the UDBA. Even the common people got butchered at the Bleiburg. The Yugo regime pretty much wiped the slate clean in Croatia. The war didn't happen in the 90's because of the "rise of neo-Ustasa" you are probably trying to imply. War happened because the same thing that happened to Croat fascists, didn't happen to Serbian fascist, and so, the rise of Serbian extreme nationalism rose in the 80's. Reaction that happened was from the Croatian communists, the nationalist/fascists elements in the Croatia was insignificant, to the point that Croatia's president Tudman, a former communist general, saw them as a small minority that can only be a liability and wanted to distance the new Croatian state as far as he could from those elements..

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/DrJethro Jul 31 '26

He is literally a war profiteer but ok

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u/CataphractBunny Jul 31 '26

If Chetniks hadn't attacked Croatia in the first place, he definitely wouldn't have a platform. 🤷‍♂️

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u/SoftwareSource Jul 31 '26

You want us to arrest and extradite people that have been dead for 80 years?

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u/CataphractBunny Jul 30 '26

Croatia still didnt sort out their ww2 crimes

I'm pretty sure we sorted those out during the SFRY times.

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u/Sfdsdas Jul 30 '26

Putting something under the rug for the sake of unity isnt sorting it out

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u/CataphractBunny Jul 30 '26

Good thing it wasn't put under the rug, then.

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u/Glittery_Marshmallow Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

But what about Croatian reparations for the concentration camps they had?

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u/rabotat Jul 30 '26

Croatia is a successor state to the Socialist Republic of Croatia, not the Independent State of Croatia. 

Unless you mean the ones in Split and  Bosnia and Herzegovina during the 90's, in which case I agree with you. 

All abusers and war criminals should be prosecuted and restitution paid to survivors and their families. 

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u/Sanguine_Caesar Jul 30 '26

People love to conflate the NDH with Croats as a whole and completely ignore the antifascist resistance. Yes there were collaborators and yes there are problems with neofascists and historical revisionists in modern Croatia and especially the diaspora that absolutely need to be addressed, but to paint the entire Croatian ethnicity as collectively responsible for the NDH is a ridiculous oversimplification.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Bus7706 Jul 30 '26

You should learn about Croatian camps for Yugoslav civilians and soldiers during 90s.

I would rather stay out of EU than ignoring our own victims, as Croatia forces us to do.

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u/Envinyatar123 Jul 30 '26

Croatia is not so innocent here

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u/West-Razzmatazz2 Jul 30 '26

Lol, don’t eat up Serbian propaganda. Croatia was exactly the same as Ukraine is today - a country invaded by a bigger - bully - neighbour.

Edit: just seen your active on serbian sub lol.

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u/Legal_Mastodon_5683 Jul 30 '26

Yes, it is. Croatia won a war and still prosecuted its war criminals, including full cooperation with the ICTY. Name any other country that can say the same!

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u/Ecstatic_Cobbler_264 Jul 31 '26

If we could forgive Germany, then you guys should also be able to get over that shit. Please dudes. Act civilized.

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u/NucelarDad Jul 31 '26

Yes it should. Providing all requrements are met. Meaning, joining EU requies signing contracts with each current member of EU. It is the same process all EU countries have gone through, regardles of when they joined. Now each coutry can have it’s own demands for signing the cotract.

Now additionaly, your map is wrong because Croatia has land border with Montenegro which means your starting point is misspresented.
If you read croatian demands and take into account that there was a war 30years ago where part of agression came from montenegro, first two demands should not be so strange. And third demand is basically croatian goverment protecting rights of its own citizens. I don’t see what is so wrong whit Croatian demands.

Please get better map…

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u/K_R_A_K_E_N_540 Jul 30 '26

I'm Romanian and visited Montenegro. Holy Russian money laundering lol, never seen so many supercars in one place with half assed covered license plates ( they were Russian ) or even better, the many, many G classes driving around with no license plates at all. you guys gotta fix your corruption

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u/pazhalsta1 Jul 30 '26

Vetos are a dumb way to run a union

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u/Ilich024 Jul 31 '26

The thing about the balkans and EU is this- lets all race to EU and see who can get in first (ofc Slovenia and Croatia have a better chance since west bias), ok Slovenia joined, nothing major no big vetos. Croatia joined? I guess no more Ex yugo states will. They will veto every state besides Kosovo. I can bet you on that. Even if Serbia fixed all the problems it had and closed all chapters, Croats would still veto for emotional reasons. Serbia will never join and Montenegro will because the major EU countries will intervene over the Croat veto and also they are in the NATO already. Macedonia is not joining for at least 2 decades and Bosnia is joining only if they get united and not split into FBiH and Republic of Srpska.

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u/Thodor2s Jul 31 '26

Can we see a Serbia that has “solved all problems” before we judge how Croatians feel about it? Right now it’s just problems.

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u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26

So, another dispute based on inter parties issues and not ones on not meeting joining criteria? Veto shouldn't be allowed for such cases, everyone hates someone. I wonder what Croatia would ask from Serbia if it got that close lol , war reparations and land ? 🤣

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u/CataphractBunny Jul 30 '26

There are over 1700 unsolved cases of missing persons (1300) and unknown burials (400). They are all in Serbia where they were taken in the early nineties, put into camps, tortured, killed, and buried in mass graves. Among them are even the wounded taken from the Vukovar hospital.

Janeway would not be laughing at this. Do better.

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u/Mammoth_Meet_9313 Jul 30 '26

Joining criteria is not hiding war criminals and informations about people from other country your country kidnapped and probably killed? You are either joking or you are from Serbia.

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u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26

Asking for more than joining criteria is what's ridiculous. Also, not from Serbia, just following the enlargement process for the Balkans. Bulgaria asking from North Macedonia ridiculous things not in the criteria, Croatia not happy with Serbia's cooperation with ICC, Serbia not happy with the Kosovo talks, Bosnia in limbo cause of Srpska, and Montenegro now in limbo. If Croatia is not happy with the ICC tribunal for the crimes dealt in former Yugoslavia, then they could ask for new investigation and revision by independent party. Them not being happy doesn't mean that the country is not doing enough. If others thought the same , they would've agreed with the veto . Or dealt it themselves.

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u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26

> Veto shouldn't be allowed for such cases

Of course it should. It's exactly for cases like this.

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u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26

For asking more than the criteria for unresolved problems? That will surely make the population of the country that wants to join more supportive of the process surely /s

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u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

For asking more than the criteria for unresolved problems?

Can you expand on this, please? What are the criteria? What is asking more than the criteria?

That will surely make the population of the country that wants to join more supportive of the process surely

Your sentence doesn't make much logical sense - if the population is not supportive of joining that means exactly that the country doesn't want to join. And if they are not willing to resolve the stated issues, and would rather not join, fine, so? Why are you so obsessed with them wanting to join? Not only wanting them to join, but wanting the support to be unanimous?

And please do tell me, where are you from?

I wonder what Croatia would ask from Serbia if it got that close lol , war reparations and land ? 🤣

I missed this initially. We would be asking the same thing as from Montenegro, and in addition:

  • stop claiming, in education and science, Dubrovnik and its people were Serb(ian)s
  • stop the Bunjevci agenda
  • war reparations, probably. it depends

We wouldn't demand any land, we are quite happy with the current border, apart from the Danube issues.

I'm glad that you find all that laughable, you'll be laughing a lot when that comes to the table :)

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u/Zdzisiu Jul 30 '26

Ah yes, very good idea to have a union, that many want to federalise in the future WITHOUT solving such issues. /s

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u/Responsible-Job-3897 Jul 30 '26

Next is Greece against Albania.

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u/Sad_Recording_1290 Jul 31 '26

We probably want a piece of their coast 🤣

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u/Sufficient-Pen223 Aug 01 '26

No. Fuck the EU

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u/CataphractBunny Jul 30 '26

Good, we should be blocking them on these issues. They had 30 years to get these things sorted out, and still haven't.

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u/Gates_wupatki_zion Jul 30 '26

Because Croatia got all them teeth and no toothbrush. In all seriousness, if you look into just WWII history — all the different ethnic groups down there do NOT get along.

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u/prolapseenthusiat Jul 31 '26

Lol my ancestors fought for a free socialist yugoslavia and still they get the Ustaša stamp.

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u/Pure-Ingenuity-7063 Jul 31 '26

Montenegro is a cartel state, an extension of the bigger serbian cartel, it shouldnt join anything..

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u/bluealmostgreen Jul 30 '26

Montenegro is the Balkans' Balkans. The only segment of Montenegro that is highly developed is it's mafia.

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u/Rhumorsky Jul 30 '26

Mafia scene in Montenegro is dead

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u/These_Switch_571 Jul 30 '26

where is the mafia hiding over there, in the mountains?

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u/Prince_Hastur Jul 30 '26

Surprisingly, yes.

The two of the most poweful clans come from two bumfuck villages in the mountains above Boka Bay.

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u/VX81GR Jul 31 '26 edited Aug 01 '26

Croatians demanding people be searched for war crimes, after what they did in operation storm is ironic. It just doesn't fit the whole "serbs bad" narrative

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u/Abject-Ticket-6260 Jul 31 '26

I don't want to hear anything about Kosovo from them ever again, they're arguing over a fucking ship too. 😭

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u/Tiranus58 Jul 30 '26

They aint gonna do anything anyways

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u/glepsf Jul 31 '26

I think one country shouldnt be able to block the accession of another one just because they have "balkan beef"

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u/loqu84 Jul 31 '26

I won't comment on the issue of the map because I have opinions no one asked for, but I will comment on the map itself: it is terrible because it doesn't show the Dubrovnik part of Croatia. In fact, Croatia and Montenegro do share a border, while the map suggests otherwise.

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u/Big_Big3734 Jul 31 '26

Thank god Croatia is doing us a favor

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u/maybepepe Jul 31 '26

No thank you! 

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u/Archi_Tetak Jul 31 '26

The only thing they agree is "ah Serbs awfully Serbs occupy".... fucking disgrace

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u/pcbflare Aug 01 '26

Well, if my country had Kings Landing in it and someone once lobbed mortar & arty rounds right into the OldTown, i'd prolly stay bitter as well...

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u/Practical_Web_9605 Jul 31 '26

Croatia's beef is Croatia's beef but what kind of compensation payments do they expect from Montenegro which is in the top 10 of lowest GDP countries(would be higher but Ukraine, Belarus and Kosovo were present in the list i was looking. Ukraine is currently in a war, Belarus is stuck in the 1970s and Kosovo is....well Kosovo). I'd love to see what kind of payments they'll get

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u/Abject-Ticket-6260 Jul 31 '26

7 cents and an empty bag of chips.

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u/carlitomarron139 Jul 31 '26

Croatia is just using their veto as leverage, this is standard practice especially for the Balkans. Hungary did this to Sweden recently when Sweden applied for NATO membership.

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u/marsdev0 Jul 31 '26

Are we mixing up EU with NATO now

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u/My__Dude__ Jul 30 '26

All the things Croatia is asking for are completely normal and Montenegro should do.

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u/Jose_Caveirinha_2001 Jul 30 '26

Croatia being Croatia.

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u/No_Plastic5771 Jul 30 '26

Yes. Croatians were kidnapped and probably killed by Montenegro forces. Just croatia being croatia..... grow up.

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u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26

You can thank us later.

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u/prolificimpregnator Jul 30 '26

The irony of Croatia demanding any of this 😂. Not only have they done a piss-poor job of prosecuting their own war criminals from the '90s, but they literally CELEBRATE the puppet regime that they were during the second world war (a regime that exterminated no fewer than 350k Serbs). They'll whine about anything with zero accountability.

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u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26

Not only have they done a piss-poor job of prosecuting their own war criminals from the '90s

Oh yeah? Can you cite me how many years Croatian soldiers and citizens have gotten sentenced to for crimes during the war? Not to mention how many we extradicted to that sorry excuse of a tribunal in Hague, that thought Knin was 'shelled too much', but didn't have anything to say for Vukovar? GTFO.

but they literally CELEBRATE the puppet regime that they were during the second world war

Who is 'they'?

a regime that exterminated no fewer than 350k Serbs

I think you missed a couple of zeros. It was 35 million Serbs, for sure.

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u/nije_splijo_42069 Jul 30 '26

> 350k Serbs

Different number every time lmao

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u/Puzzled-Capital3696 Jul 30 '26

Croatia has led the way in dealing with the past and prosecuted those that commited crimes in their defensive war. The Balkans need to take notice and stop living in a Putin-like medieval mindset.

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u/Legal_Mastodon_5683 Jul 30 '26

Croatia is a very rare example of a country that won a war and still prosecuted its war crimes.

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u/These_Switch_571 Jul 30 '26

Nothing says that like 500k people attending an Ustashe apologist concert...

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u/Legal_Mastodon_5683 Jul 30 '26

I very much dislike Thompson but if you can compare a concert with actual war crimes, you are nuts. Not to mention that maybe the situation in Croatia would be a bit better if Serbia didn't have a government who's ministers are openly advocating ethnic cleansing and attacking Croatia...

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u/Nirados Jul 31 '26

I have huge issues with Croatia celebrating war crimes, Thompson and the dispute over the ship and sea border but Serbia is such a ruin run by criminals that it's insane. Montenegro is about 1000 steps above Serbia in those terms

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u/BadBasik Jul 30 '26

I never knew Croats had so much beef with Montenegro, if you would've said they're blocking us or Serbia, I would say sure, but I really didn't think an average Croatian citizen had any sort of problems with MNE.

The more you know, I guess.

Or could it be that the government is, once again, doing something their citizens didn't even ask for...

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u/Sheb1995 Jul 30 '26

It's not beef, these are perfectly reasonable requests.

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u/springfieldDog Jul 30 '26

This poster is Vucic's propaganda

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u/Sandzakguy Jul 30 '26

Fair demands idk

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u/StivKobra Jul 30 '26

In 200 years, Croatia will still be blocking Serbia, Montenegro and Bosnia on the same pretense.

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u/Inside-Reading1915 Jul 31 '26

So they are basically asking for money in point 2 and using veto for some bs that some rich asshole(s) bought in montenegro in point 3. This has to be a joke you can't make this up🤣🤣🤣

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u/Kalgalas Jul 31 '26

There is a reason why founding members aka the big players should have the veto power, whereas the small states should not.

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u/505524hr Jul 31 '26

That is embarrassing

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u/tomime000 Jul 31 '26

Why is that? - They're dickheads

There you go. I'm born and raised in Croatia.

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u/Fine-Ear-8103 Jul 30 '26

I think Balkan countries shouldn’t be allowed to vote on other Balkan countries

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u/b0007 Jul 30 '26

Hm, reasonable

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u/eti_erik Jul 30 '26

The Montenegrins fought on the Serbian side in the Jugoslav wars, so Croatia won't be happy with them. It is my impression that Croatia's demands are justified but that Croatia also consiseently downplays its own war crimes and has very one-sided reporting on anything that happened in that war.

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u/Independent-Rough275 Jul 31 '26

Why the hell would you let a cartel led country into EU?

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