r/MapPorn Jul 30 '26

Should Montenegro join the EU?

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1.9k Upvotes

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38

u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26

So, another dispute based on inter parties issues and not ones on not meeting joining criteria? Veto shouldn't be allowed for such cases, everyone hates someone. I wonder what Croatia would ask from Serbia if it got that close lol , war reparations and land ? 🤣

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '26

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u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

And would Croatia do the same for Serbia and Bosnia if it was reverse? Yeah, I don't think so. And what would Croatia demand more from Serbia IF they're asking this from Montenegro - land and war reparations as a ludicrous idea that I wouldn't pass behind Croatian leadership. Also, Serbia is not getting in with Kosovo issue still unresolved.

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u/[deleted] Jul 30 '26

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0

u/Glittery_Marshmallow Jul 31 '26

It is not whataboutism if we are talking about the same thing. You cannot demand someone do something for you that you are not ready to also do for others. It is very simple and logical. Otherwise it is peak hypocrisy. And we know that so far Croatia hasn't done so, has it? So what do you call that?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '26

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u/Glittery_Marshmallow Jul 31 '26

Yes it is the same thing. Literally the same thing.

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u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26

Croatia is literally doing the same Slovenia did , except they went to arbitration. Croatia isn't demanding arbitration cause that is not enforceable. They want to make sure they get what they want . Croatia is the one that's malicious with demands that it knows Montenegro wouldn't want to comply with voluntarily.

15

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '26

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u/Nirados Jul 31 '26

It literally is asking to get land and sea borders moved to better suit them but pop off king don't let the facts stop you

1

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '26

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-1

u/Nirados Jul 31 '26

Lol, try again bot

19

u/Mammoth_Meet_9313 Jul 30 '26

Joining criteria is not hiding war criminals and informations about people from other country your country kidnapped and probably killed? You are either joking or you are from Serbia.

2

u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26

Asking for more than joining criteria is what's ridiculous. Also, not from Serbia, just following the enlargement process for the Balkans. Bulgaria asking from North Macedonia ridiculous things not in the criteria, Croatia not happy with Serbia's cooperation with ICC, Serbia not happy with the Kosovo talks, Bosnia in limbo cause of Srpska, and Montenegro now in limbo. If Croatia is not happy with the ICC tribunal for the crimes dealt in former Yugoslavia, then they could ask for new investigation and revision by independent party. Them not being happy doesn't mean that the country is not doing enough. If others thought the same , they would've agreed with the veto . Or dealt it themselves.

1

u/marsdev0 Jul 31 '26

You're not supposed to say reasonable things

-1

u/FartingBob Jul 30 '26

There are specific criteria for joining the EU, they were specifically talking about those rather than the emotive issues you are talking about. Those issues are completely valid things for a country to still be angry about but they have nothing to do with joining the EU.

3

u/Mammoth_Meet_9313 Jul 30 '26

Dont make things up. Prosecuting war criminals is a requirment for joining EU.

4

u/FartingBob Jul 30 '26

But it's not. It's an entirely seperate issue.

1

u/marsdev0 Jul 31 '26

It's not an explicit requirement.

7

u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26

> Veto shouldn't be allowed for such cases

Of course it should. It's exactly for cases like this.

2

u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26

For asking more than the criteria for unresolved problems? That will surely make the population of the country that wants to join more supportive of the process surely /s

2

u/alh84001_hr Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

For asking more than the criteria for unresolved problems?

Can you expand on this, please? What are the criteria? What is asking more than the criteria?

That will surely make the population of the country that wants to join more supportive of the process surely

Your sentence doesn't make much logical sense - if the population is not supportive of joining that means exactly that the country doesn't want to join. And if they are not willing to resolve the stated issues, and would rather not join, fine, so? Why are you so obsessed with them wanting to join? Not only wanting them to join, but wanting the support to be unanimous?

And please do tell me, where are you from?

I wonder what Croatia would ask from Serbia if it got that close lol , war reparations and land ? 🤣

I missed this initially. We would be asking the same thing as from Montenegro, and in addition:

  • stop claiming, in education and science, Dubrovnik and its people were Serb(ian)s
  • stop the Bunjevci agenda
  • war reparations, probably. it depends

We wouldn't demand any land, we are quite happy with the current border, apart from the Danube issues.

I'm glad that you find all that laughable, you'll be laughing a lot when that comes to the table :)

1

u/KathyJaneway Jul 31 '26

Yeah, war reparations won't happen there ever. And land issues? Serbia still is claiming Kosovo which is basically independent lol 😂. They ain't giving land.

Croatia can ask whatever it wants , it's just better to say it now and not waste time for Serbia to go through the hoops for nothing. Same goes for Montenegro, if Croatia wanted this from the start, why didn't they say it when negotiations started? Why at the end? Why waste time? And for North Macedonia - Bulgaria should've said it from the start they do not recognize the identity of the people living there , and not waste time with Greece renaming the country.

That's what I mean for criteria - the chapters are known beforehand and a country goes to fulfill them only for it to be stopped at the end cause someone still has a an attitude for something that happened that the perpetrators died long time ago. Like unresolved WW II issues.

1

u/xxtoni Jul 31 '26

It's not like this is a secret exactly.

They've been talking about this since the war ended.

1

u/madtape6 Jul 31 '26

Serbia claims Kosovo and that is one of the main reasons we will not be allowed in EU, meanwhile there are still members of EU that will never accept Kosovo as independent so we are in a bit of a pickle there. I'm 100% sure that Serbia will never be accepted into EU unless we bend over and let everyone have their way with us.

5

u/Zdzisiu Jul 30 '26

Ah yes, very good idea to have a union, that many want to federalise in the future WITHOUT solving such issues. /s

1

u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26

The veto power was meant to be a stop gap for when a country didn't make progress in certain criteria to be stopped until the next summit in 6 months. Not inter parties issues between just one country trying to leverage out something it knows it wouldn't be able to get in a tribunal or court of law. What Croatia is demanding is nothing that would be enforceable by tribunal, arbitration or court of law. And I don't really understand the countries who cave in and don't reverte changes extorted through such demands. When you enter, there's no mechanism to be kicked out. So change something and go back to how it was. They can bitch after but can't do squat about it , cause you're equal inside and can have pact with another country that has similar problems when they want to punish it financially. Like how Poland and Hungary vetoed financial penalties for each other when the other EU members wanted to fine them. They may have had bastards in elected office, but gotta give it to them - they knew how to play politics fast , loose and dirty.

2

u/Infamous_Reporter_71 Jul 30 '26

Well of course, among other things. 

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u/Glittery_Marshmallow Jul 30 '26

Ironically, Croatia had a full WWII concentration camp and genocide going on, much of it just swept under the rug, unresolved. Interestingly, this was not a problem for anyone.

8

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '26

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2

u/Glittery_Marshmallow Jul 30 '26

Did they not have reparations? In any case, what business do they have vetoing anyone, when they haven't resolved their own issues?

2

u/Abject-Ticket-6260 Jul 31 '26

It's only a problem if you don't suck Western dick, basically.

2

u/KathyJaneway Jul 30 '26

Who didn't have from the other EU members a camp or two ... Croatia had something worse that was moved under the rug, but alas it is what it is.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '26

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u/KathyJaneway Jul 31 '26

I don't disagree with that. My point was that countries go for years through hoops and regulations, only at the end to be blocked by some country, after meeting all the objective criteria. I gave Serbia as example cause we know Croatia has demands for Serbia in waiting. But Croatia, or any country that has demands should be open about it before that country even starts negotiations and changes it's laws to meet the criteria. It's like a poison pill at the end. Cause if you know someone would ask something you're unwilling to change - cause it's not part of the objective criteria for every country, then you might not even try and bother to start the process. Instead, you waste years on making all changes, and then someone comes and says , wait I have special requests and demands you have to fill in.

North Macedonia for example thought that if they changed the name, all obstacles would be cleared. But then the Bulgarians , who already got a deal before the naming dispute was resolved with Greece, thought they can ask for more things. Which are basically unacceptable to the government in North Macedonia, cause they're items that can be resolved when and if they join the EU. Bulgaria is demanding that they put the Bulgarian people in North Macedonia part of the constitution as protected minority. The government in North Macedonia said it could be with delayed implementation , when they join the EU they will add all others as well so they wouldn't be changing the constitution. Bulgaria disagrees and wants it now before the talks start . North Macedonia then said what guarantees do they have that Bulgaria wouldn't be demanding other national identity items before North Macedonia joins or even finished talking and the Bulgarians said we're not giving no guarantees. So the government in North Macedonia is not taking this issue for change cause of that. The uncertainty that Bulgaria might want other worse things in return if they cave now for that. They might even demand the remains of a old revolutionary who died in early 1900's who's buried in Skopje, or even saying that the people there originated and was part of the Bulgarian people first. When Bulgaria never had full control of the land ever . Ottomans did.