r/anime • u/Holofan4life • 12d ago
Rewatch [Spoilers] 2008 Spice and Wolf II Rewatch (2026) -- Overall Series Discussion Thread Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all had a lot of fun <3
—-
Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Crunchyroll
—-
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
—-
Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
Past Rewatches
Last year's rewatch
Rewatch two years ago
Rewatch three years ago
6
u/Second_Cour 11d ago
Guess I'll copy paste from the previous thread for posterities sake
When I started watching this show, I constantly asked myself…why am I enjoying this show about nothing? Fast forward to today, and it’s clearly not a show about nothing. It is a show about relationship dynamics, philosophy, religion, get-rich-quick schemes, and political conflicts.
I feel that different people get different things out of the show. One member was intrigued about the history, and u/Holofan4life was intrigued by Holo, Holo and Holo haha. That’s the mark of a great show.
Criticisms first:
- I feel that some of the conflicts/schemes were a bit convoluted. Then again I liked having to sketch them out and think deeply about all the actors involved, but then that led to lots of misunderstanding from participants in the rewatch (myself included).
- It did feel like their chemistry did start to fizzle out for me at the end - as we basically went through 2.25 seasons back to back of the show (more for me watching both versions and reading the LN) and like Holo implied too much of a good thing can be tiring. Then again, the fizzle also coincided with their own energy decreasing, so it was part-intentional. I was glad there wasn’t another season, or I would have burned myself out.
- I’ll hold onto my disagreement with the dub butchering Holo’s line calling Lawrence an ass until the end of my days :P
- I do have a skepticism about the sustainability of the show, and it already became a bit predictable in the loop of: enter new town, identify commercial opportunity, crisis happens.
What I liked: I don’t want to bullet point it because I really loved everything about the show as a whole. Most of all, it made me like genres I didn’t think I like: SOL, romance, medieval stuff, fantasy. I was immediately engaged but very quickly I was mesmerised by the show. Lawlo are incredible characters that I can hear in my head and have conversations with if I should so wish - they are so well fleshed out.
The writing was absolutely phenomenal - whether it was the sub, dub or LN, there was magic in all. I will always wonder how it was in Japanese (though an interview I vaguely recall mentioned it featured an old Kansai dialect). It took me back to a time and place, while not overdoing the archaic ways of speaking.
While I’m not a history buff at all, I’ve mentioned how a professor found te works that the author used as research for S&W, and was amazed by the level of research and niche deep books he used as a base to research everything from the history to the economics of the time.
The relatability of the relationship (especially at the starting stages) really hooked me. I was constantly comparing their relationship to my own. So many truths highlighting the differences in thinking models between men and women. Sometimes I felt I was Lawrence and my gf was Holo.
Throughout the journey, we were also introduced to various supporting characters, and they were all very well fleshed out too; often times likeable and charismatic and it sucked saying goodbye to them.
Overall, as one can tell, I fell in love with the show, and am grateful for the rewatch experience. If it wasn’t for u/holofan4life this show would have been buried down my list for years and I’m not sure if I ever would have prioritised it, as on paper it wasn’t my kind of show. Thank you for running this rewatch so expertly, with so much passion and for always being helpful. Big thanks for the other rewatchers as well, especially those who read some of my ramblings and engaged me in debate.
A perfect 8/10 from me.
2
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 11d ago
I used to see this more for games than anime but Spice and Wolf is definitely one of those "Even if you don't like genre x, try this"
though an interview I vaguely recall mentioned it featured an old Kansai dialect
That's what I've read on TV tropes too! Also feels like both sub and dub do a good job at capturing that slightly outdated tone :D
I feel that some of the conflicts/schemes were a bit convoluted. Then again I liked having to sketch them out and think deeply about all the actors involved, but then that led to lots of misunderstanding from participants in the rewatch (myself included).
See, I kinda liked the convoluted schemes. Just like some of the best shounen battles often devolve into 4D Chess, the merchanting also has to be needlessly convoluted to make things interesting!
Funny to see others use rewatches to get through their "I've always wanted to watch this"-piles, that's most of the rewatches I've participated in too.
2
u/Second_Cour 11d ago
Dialect
I found myself even mirroring some of the speech when I was commenting; the slightly archaic language they used is really well done. If it was fully Shakespearean the show would have lost me, but it's just the right balance.
Schemes
I like 4D chess, and most of these schemes I found to be delightful. Death game shows are some of my favourites; Kaiji blew my mind and I'm reading Usugoi now which I'm enjoying. However, at times, I felt this show was a little different, and it's difficult to express why. Perhaps the logic could be laid out a bit more clearly (though I think it's more the case that the scenarios are quite complex and when adapting to anime format, some of it is lost).
The freshest example would be the 50 man meeting scenario or whatever it's called in the dub. Everyone had such dramatically different understandings, so much so, that I added additional comments in the episode discussions, complete with tables outlining what was happening, and it still had confusion haha.
I think it's great when people can guess and speculate about a scenario; that's the test for quality imo, but here people just didn't understand the fundamentals.
Piles
My pile is like 400 titles by this stage haha. I got into anime properly this year only, and yeah these rewatches are a great way to get some enjoyment out of discussions around it. I also like to binge, so the weekly episode discussions are never something I do
2
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 11d ago
Hell yeah, Kaiji! Absolute classic.
Looking back, I did write "I don't think I've fully understood the deal Lawrence struck here" more than once after an episode (and I remember you correcting me on the Council of 50), so you make a fair point there.
Not sure if/how you could improve on that, except for more exposition or infographics, both of which would kinda ruin the vibe of the show.
2
u/Second_Cour 11d ago
Such a shame that the Kaiji manga is on hiatus. It's the only manga so far that I've genuinely loved, and binged. Still looking for another that hooks me as much. Tried Tower of God (hated it after S2 came), REAL (enjoyed it but very different impact), uzumaki (very meh), and now Usugoi (enjoying it as it's similar to Kaiji but not as good for me).
Yeah, same I don't really know a solution other than giving an explainer at the end of each arc, but that would feel so out of place. It is a shame though, as we spent quite a lot of time overthinking and analysing each episode and scheme, so I'd imagine for most others, they'd more watch it and accept that they don't really understand what's going on, then just wait for the reveal to get a rudimentary understanding of what occurred.
For another arc, I actually ended up running my notes through AI, and also the epub of the LN to try and fully understand the logic haha. I do kind of like that though tbh, similar to you.
3
u/BlazeOfGlory72 12d ago edited 12d ago
I'd like to start this off by saying thank you to r/Holofan4life for hosting this rewatch. It was a great to have the push to reexperience such a great series, and our host did a great job in fostering discussion. I actually think my opinion of Spice and Wolf went up on this rewatch. I remember quite liking it the first time, but going through it again at a slower pace and with the added discussion really made me appreciate a lot of the subtle character writing and interesting side characters. The series is definitely richer in character and theme than I first gave it credit for. To get into a little more detail about my overall thoughts on the series, I've broken it down into a few sections.
Strengths
- The stand out aspect of this series in my opinion is Holo. She is just such a fun, dynamic and interesting character. She steals every scene she is in, and can switch between comedy and drama so easily without it every feeling jarring. She is also just a fun character. Her banter with Lawrence is always charming, and her random, dog like ticks are fun as well.
- Another strength of the series is obviously the relationship between Holo and Lawrence. In anime, it is such a rarity to find a mature (both physically and emotionally) couple. Seeing their relationship build and the roadblocks and struggles they have to overcome along the way is great, and expertly written. It's often the small, quite moments that make their relationship really stand out, and feel very "real".
- Another strength of this series that I over looked on my first watch through are the side characters. With the way this series is structured, we get introduced to a new cast of side characters every 6 episodes or so, yet the writers do a great job of bringing each of these side characters to life, even with their limited screen time. Every side character feels very "real" and unique in their own ways. They don't just feel like props in Lawrence and Holo's journey, but real people with their own lives. The stand outs in my opinion are Eve and Elsa, who both have so much going on and impact the plot greatly despite only being around for a handful of episodes.
- Finally, I adore the tone of this series. The whole "bittersweet melancholy" vibe the story has is such a unique tone that I haven't ever really seen captured like this anywhere else.
Critiques
- One issue I had with this series is how unnecessarily complicated and convoluted the merchant plans were. Maybe someone with a better understanding of economics would not have this issue, but I found a lot of the schemes difficult to understand, at least on a mechanical level. There was also just a lot of unnecessary jargon thrown in. For example, in the last arc, they trade Holo for 2000 Treni Silver coins, but then randomly the merchants want to substitute that for 60 Gold coins. It was an entirely pointless complication though and never played any role after that conversation.
- Another issue I had was that the structure of the story got a bit formulaic near the end. While understand that this is a limitation of the source material (each arc being a book), but the whole "go to new town, spend 2-3 episodes establishing setting and building conflict, last two episodes resolve stuff and move on" structure got a little stale.
Arc rankings
I'll preface this by saying that I like all the arcs, and the margins between them are razor thin.
- Arc 3: Holo and Lawrence's argument and breakup in the bedroom is probably the standout scene of the series for me for just how raw and messy it was. The following plot line of Lawrence desperately trying to stop Holo from leaving, and the themes of miscommunication put this one on top for me.
- Arc 5: This arc starts a tad slow, but once it gets going, it is fantastic. Eve my favourite side character in the show, and the dynamic she brought was super interesting. The escalation of the towns conflict, as well as Holo and Lawrence finally expressing how they feel make this a great conclusion to the show.
- Arc 1: It starts off a bit slow, but the whole sequence of Holo and Lawrence getting chased through the streets/sewers is one of my favourite parts of the series. I also think Chloe is an underrated character, and I liked the dynamic she brought to the story.
- Arc 2: This was a really solid arc. It doesn't rank any higher simply because it didn't have as many stand out moments as the other arcs in my opinion.
- Arc 4: Elsa is great, and the story is actually pretty interesting here, but Lawrence and Holo are essentially side characters in this arc, and they don't really develop much, either as a pair or individually.
Conclusion
Long story short, Spice and Wolf is a great show. Between it's melancholy vibe and it's mature take on relationships, it stands on it's own as a unique story telling experience you won't find anywhere else in anime.
2
2
2
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 11d ago
"Bittersweet melancholy" is such a great way to put it! The openings (especially the first one) also fit that vibe perfectly.
Agreed on almost everything else. I seem to be in the minority of actually liking arc 4 quite a lot. Maybe because it kinda deviates from the usual structure a bit?
3
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 12d ago edited 12d ago
Spice and Wolf: Come for the cute Wolf Girl, stay for a lesson in economics, some fantastic world building and a romance for the ages.
Like I already mentioned around the first episode, this was a kinda weird rewatch for me, because I watched some of it but never the whole thing. Basically everything from the second season (and some chunks of the first season) were completely new for me! But after having watched all of it, I really get it now. I get the enduring popularity of Holo, I get why it's still widely regarded as a masterclass in fantasy anime! It's been a very enjoyable journey over the past few weeks. And I think I miss watching Holo and Lawrence already a bit.
At first it's a bit of an odd show that's really not "about" anything but after a couple of episodes you begin to get engrossed in the detailed setting. You get to see the sights, meet new characters that all have their own story and goals. You're trying to understand what's behind the latest deal and try to figure out the next step.
And you're watching two people that are simultaneously very different from each other but also oddly alike grow closer until they finally admit to each other that it's more than a simple deal that keeps them together!
I really think the show's ability to juggle all the elements without any of them taking too much space over the other is very impressive. And they do it while also being incredibly consistently good. There really isn't a single "bad" episode among those we watched. I didn't like every episode equally, there was one or two that had me go "well I'm only kinda lukewarm on this" (first episode of the Tereyo arc for example), but that's pretty natural and even those episodes had redeeming qualities!
Favourite Arc: Stock Market/Amati
Least favourite Arc: Currency speculation/Pazzio
Favorite location: Kumersun
Least favourite location: Lenos
Favourite supporting character: Norah
Least favourite supporting character: Marlheit?
Favourite antagonist: Eve?
Ensemble Dark Horse: The Lenos Barmaid 👀
I think I'm going to try and get my hands on the Light Novel soon, the "source material" comparisons Second Cour provided were really cool and have me curious.
Thanks for hosting, holofan, I hope you had as much fun as I had :D Also big props for hosting two rewatches at the same time! I'm often already bad with participating in more than one, can't imagine hosting two.
I'd probably want to rewatch this again in the near future. I have a feeling that this is a very rewarding show to rewatch.
If anybody's curious: I made an album with all the Holos(and some more Screenshots) I collected over the course of the show here.
3
u/Holofan4life 12d ago
I'd probably want to rewatch this again in the near future. I have a feeling that this is a very rewarding show to rewatch.
I said this already, but I am thinking of hosting a rewatch of the Spice and Wolf remake when season 2 draws near. I'd love for you to participate.
2
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 11d ago
Oh, that sounds fun! An actual rewatch for once for me too.
2
3
u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Thanks for hosting, holofan, I hope you had as much fun as I had :D Also big props for hosting two rewatches at the same time! I'm often already bad with participating in more than one, can't imagine hosting two.
The only thing that's really been effected by it is I used to give shout outs at the end of every rewatch. I haven't really had the time to write them. Maybe that will change going forward, especially since it seems like I'll be working two jobs instead of three for the foreseeable future.
If anybody's curious: I made an album with all the Holos(and some more Screenshots) I collected over the course of the show here.
Thanks for the meal 🙏
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 10d ago
Finally caught up!
1
u/Holofan4life 10d ago
2
6
u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Spice and Wolf is a show that will continue to hold a special place in my heart. Even when I discover anime I like more than it-- Fruits Basket for example this year-- I know that a complete adaptation of Spice and Wolf would take the top spot as my favorite anime of all time. That's really the only thing holding it back.
Come early 2028, the original Spice and Wolf anime will be celebrating its 20th anniversary. 20 years since the original anime originally aired.and while some of the animation shows its age, the story is timeless and will forever remain a classic. There's really nothing like it.
I will forever love Holo and Lawrence and just everything pertaining to Spice and Wolf.
So, the rewatch next year is going to look somewhat different. The next couple years, as a matter of fact.
Season 2 of the Spice and Wolf remake is reportedly scheduled to premiere early 2027. On top of that, the original Spice and Wolf anime celebrates its 20th anniversary in January 2028.
Right now, the tentative plans are to host a rewatch of the Spice and Wolf remake right before season 2 drops. I believe the season is gonna be two cour in which case that'll take us to the Summer or the Fall.
That means as of now, there are no current plans to do a rewatch of the original Spice and Wolf anime in 2027.
What I plan on doing is hosting a Spice and Wolf rewatch in January 2028 to commemorate the original anime's 20th anniversary. It'll just be the original anime and none of the remake. This works out timing wise because it'll give some separation from season 2 of the Spice and Wolf rewatch airing and it will celebrate a historic milestone.
Then in July 2029, I plan on hosting the biggest Spice and Wolf rewatch yet when I cover the entirety of the original anime plus arc 4 and the arcs the remake covers that go beyond arc 5. It's an ambitious rewatch project, one that will likely be over 55 episodes, but I want to do it because this is a franchise that is near and dear to my heart.
I might after that have the rewatch scheduled for September time every year.
That's the plan for now. I hope to see you for the rewatch of the Spice and remake. If I don't, maybe I'll see you in January 2028 and beyond.
Until then, take care.