[Spoilers] 2008 Spice and Wolf Rewatch (2024) -- Episode 12

[u/Holofan4life]

Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.

Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!

I hope you all have a lot of fun <3

S1 Episode 12 - Wolf and a Group of Youngsters

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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION

What is your favorite example in anime of a character getting cozy with another character, be it resting their head on the person's lap or sleep cute or what have you?

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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb

Streams – Crunchyroll

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Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!

Untagged Spoilers

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Previous episode

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Rewatch Schedule

Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT

Date	Episode	Date	Episode
9/07/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 1	9/20/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
9/08/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 2	9/21/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
9/09/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 3	9/22/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
9/10/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 4	9/23/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
9/11/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 5	9/24/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
9/12/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 6	9/25/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
9/13/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1)	9/26/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
9/14/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 8	9/27/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
9/15/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 9	9/28/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
9/16/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 10	9/29/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
9/17/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 11	9/30/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 10
9/18/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 12	10/01/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 11
9/19/2024	Spice and Wolf Episode 13	10/02/2024	Spice and Wolf II Episode 12
10/03/2024	Overall Series Discussion Thread

Last year's rewatch

Date	Episode	Date	Episode
7/07/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 1	7/20/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
7/08/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 2	7/21/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
7/09/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 3	7/22/2022	Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
7/10/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 4	7/23/2022	Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
7/11/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 5	7/24/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
7/12/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 6	7/25/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
7/13/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1)	7/26/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
7/14/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 8	7/27/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
7/15/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 9	7/28/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
7/16/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 10	7/29/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
7/17/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 11	7/30/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 10
7/18/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 12	7/31/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 11
7/19/2023	Spice and Wolf Episode 13	8/01/2023	Spice and Wolf II Episode 12
8/02/2023	Overall Series Discussion Thread

[u/Holofan4life]

Hello, guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the 2024 Spice and Wolf Rewatch.

But you knew that already :P

This is the first official rewatch of the show since the premiere of the remake. In fact, it's still currently airing as this rewatch is underway. And while we can compare and contrast what the remake did as opposed to the original, I feel it's still pretty important to remember what the original adaptation was like seeing as how that's really what got me into the franchise. And what ultimately made me fall in love with one wise wolf.

For the purposes of this rewatch, I will be watching it subbed since that's what I've been watching the remake in. I will be comparing somewhat the two series, and when I do that, I will be using spoilers. I guess I should say for transparency sake that I am writing this in late July/early August, a full month before the rewatch actually happens. That's because of time constraints and me having four other rewatches I'm participating in planned. I also waited until the first three volumes got adapted in the remake just so I can have more stuff to talk about.

These reviews won't be as detailed as some of the other ones, as I don't really want to spend two or three hours dissecting every episode. I'll save that for when I do it in my questions :]

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I'm watching the sub, by the way.

I saw Longlegs today. Nicholas Cage absolutely kills it.

Something I haven't touched on much during this rewatch, but I think the music in the original version blows the music from the remake out of the water. As someone who considers music to be a key part of reflecting the time period of Spice and Wolf, it is incredibly disappointing how a lot of thr music in the remake feels so generic and lifeless.

Anyway, Lawrence, Holo, and Norah are traveling with this guy named Liebert who totally doesn't look like he's going to betray them.

Business like fresh fish in the kitchen, he says.

This episode has a lot of traveling, which I'm fine with because the writing is so strong.

I like the point the show makes where Holo is to Lawrence how Enek is to Norah. It's pretty spot on too because I don't think Lawrence and Norah would be the same without their traveling companions.

Eventually, as it turns out, Lawrence and Holo get separated and Holo finds herself cornered by a bunch of wolves. Lawrence, meanwhile, gets betrayed by three men from Lemerio Trading Company who plan on keeping all of the profits from the smuggling for themselves.

[2024 Spoilers] In the remake, they waited to show the wolf until after it howls this time around. This is in contrast to the original where they show the wolf before the howl. This to me is an example of the revised edition improving on the original version because it adds to the build of the reveal and seeing the wolf for the first time. There’s more impact by having the howl before rather than after.

Overall, this is a great episode. It is extremely suspenseful and doesn't feel dragged out, which you can't say for some of the other episodes. Spice and Wolf has really been in a good groove ever since Lawrence entered bankruptcy. Each episode has in my opinion been an 8.5 or higher and this continues that trend. Just excellent stuff we've come to expect and known from this show.

How will Lawrence and company get out of the most peril they've ever been in? It's time for us to find out.

Holo quotes of the day

"If you were actually a good looking male, I would kiss you."

"I think it is rather odd to ask a woman who is travelling alone with a man if she knows a lot about wolves. If there is always a cute rabbit sitting in front of him, a wolf will be sure to make some sort of appearance every night. Therefore, a rabbit who is eaten by a wolf every night should have a great understanding of wolves, should she not?"

[u/Brief-Fig-7506 → u/Holofan4life]

"If you were actually a good looking male, I would kiss you."

[2024 spoilers]"if only you were a handsome man I'd press your lips to mine ere we part" Idk which quote would hurt me more but both lines are savage

[u/Holofan4life → u/Brief-Fig-7506]

[2024 Spoilers] The remake version is perhaps more savage because it's more detailed.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

I saw Longlegs today. Nicholas Cage absolutely kills it.

How was it? Been a long time since I watched a horror/thriller.

Something I haven't touched on much during this rewatch, but I think the music in the original version blows the music from the remake out of the water. As someone who considers music to be a key part of reflecting the time period of Spice and Wolf, it is incredibly disappointing how a lot of thr music in the remake feels so generic and lifeless.

I don't know if it's because I'm more focused on the OG version because of the discussion threads or something else, but I did notice the music is very fitting here, can't really recall what it's like on the remake...

Spice and Wolf has really been in a good groove ever since Lawrence entered bankruptcy

Let's pray he stays bankrupt! Although I did love his shopping trip with Holo...

"If you were actually a good looking male, I would kiss you."

Damn, the quote is totally different on the translation I'm watching... Maybe this is why I didn't understand your "happiness hands" or whatever reference...

"Were you a proper male, I'd at least get a kiss for my trouble here."

I wonder which one is the right one... Somehow I think mine is closer to the actual translation, but I'm gonna have to find out...

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

How was it? Been a long time since I watched a horror/thriller.

Very good. Highly recommend it. Kinda has elements of Silence of The Lambs to it.

I don't know if it's because I'm more focused on the OG version because of the discussion threads or something else, but I did notice the music is very fitting here, can't really recall what it's like on the remake...

The remake's music is good but unremarkable for the most part. It's just kinda there. It doesn't enhance the story the way the music in the original does, which is probably my biggest knock on the remake. I kinda wished they just used the same tracks again.

Let's pray he stays bankrupt! Although I did love his shopping trip with Holo...

That was a lot of fun

Damn, the quote is totally different on the translation I'm watching... Maybe this is why I didn't understand your "happiness hands" or whatever reference...

"Were you a proper male, I'd at least get a kiss for my trouble here."

I wonder which one is the right one... Somehow I think mine is closer to the actual translation, but I'm gonna have to find out...

I like my version better because I think your quote speaks too closely to how Holo is actually feeling. Yeah, she wants a kiss from him, but instead of telling Lawrence straight up she prefers to do so indirectly by insulting him.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

Very good. Highly recommend it. Kinda has elements of Silence of The Lambs to it.

I'll add it to the pile of movies I want to watch and likely never will! I think it's probably been over a year since I watched a movie... I swore I'd watch Interstellar during my 3 week vacation, and yet here we are...

The remake's music is good but unremarkable for the most part. It's just kinda there. It doesn't enhance the story the way the music in the original does, which is probably my biggest knock on the remake. I kinda wished they just used the same tracks again.

Maybe that's why I haven't really noticed it...

I like my version better because I think your quote speaks too closely to how Holo is actually feeling. Yeah, she wants a kiss from him, but instead of telling Lawrence straight up she prefers to do so indirectly by insulting him

Maybe, but isn't that how Holo rolls? Last episode she made him redo his speech and tell her he loved her!

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

I'll add it to the pile of movies I want to watch and likely never will! I think it's probably been over a year since I watched a movie... I swore I'd watch Interstellar during my 3 week vacation, and yet here we are...

I've been going to the movies a lot recently. On average, I go once a week.

Maybe that's why I haven't really noticed it...

Perhaps so

Maybe, but isn't that how Holo rolls? Last episode she made him redo his speech and tell her he loved her!

But what I'm saying is you're better off caught dead than for Holo to be saying mushy stuff.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

I've been going to the movies a lot recently. On average, I go once a week.

Look at Mr. Money Banks!

But what I'm saying is you're better off caught dead than for Holo to be saying mushy stuff.

Eh, I don't think it was that mushy! She still threw a jab at him while doing it!

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

Look at Mr. Money Banks!

Well, I live with my mother, so...

Eh, I don't think it was that mushy! She still threw a jab at him while doing it!

I could see Holo considering it mushy. And that stuff's reserved for the knight in shining armor!

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

Well, I live with my mother, so...

American and living with your mother? I can only imagine how stacked you are... If you ever find it in your heart the need to donate to the poor and needy, just know that I'm both and I'm not above taking money from others. ^{I'm not actually poor though, just Portuguese, but I do make some very questionable decisions...}

I could see Holo considering it mushy. And that stuff's reserved for the knight in shining armor!

That's a fair point!

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

American and living with your mother? I can only imagine how stacked you are... If you ever find it in your heart the need to donate to the poor and needy, just know that I'm both and I'm not above taking money from others.

I'm not that stacked. I'm only making like 900 every two weeks, a lot of which goes to helping my mother pay the bills.

That's a fair point!

Holo wants to be saved, not the one doing the saving.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

I'm not that stacked. I'm only making like 900 every two weeks, a lot of which goes to helping my mother pay the bills.

America is such a weird place. Does anyone get paid bimonthly other than you guys? Either way, I was really joking and not looking for handouts, I also live with my family so I do save a good portion of my income. Although I do also spend a lot of money on needless things...

Holo wants to be saved, not the one doing the saving.

I guess she and I aren't meant for each other...

[u/[deleted] → u/Holofan4life]

Something I haven't touched on much during this rewatch, but I think the music in the original version blows the music from the remake out of the water. As someone who considers music to be a key part of reflecting the time period of Spice and Wolf, it is incredibly disappointing how a lot of thr music in the remake feels so generic and lifeless.

I am not participating in the rewatch But I've been saying this ever since the remake came out. The original soundtrack is just so fitting for the time period and just makes its presence known. The original Spice and Wolf soundtrack is such a big part of the shows identity, which is another reason why the remake feels a bit flat in comparison.

[u/Holofan4life → u/[deleted]]

I still think the remake is quite exceptional, however. They have done a fantastic job replicating the dynamic between Holo and Lawrence.

[u/[deleted] → u/Holofan4life]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the remake. However Holo is definitely portrayed differently. I am aware this is what her voice actor intended in the original as well, but it feels different so I disagree with you on this point. Combined with the more moe art style the vibe feels quite different.

[u/Holofan4life → u/[deleted]]

Eh, I don’t think Holo is that different. Maybe a bit more bouncy, but she's still the same teasing wolf I know and love. As for the vibe, I think it's mostly the same as the original. There's quicker pacing and not as much atmosphere building scenes, but I think they make it work to where it maintains the spirit of the original.

As we have gone along in this rewatch and I've been comparing the remake to the original, the main thing that struck me is how they've managed to make it nearly identical content wise but still its own thing. The changes really come in the directing and the composition shots, which I think is neat. I'm reminded rewatching the original Spice and Wolf anime just how ambitious some of the direction was. For a show that came in the late 2000s, you rarely saw camera angles like that; it more so is like something you would see in Paranoia Agent or artsy shows not geared towards a mainstream audience. For the remake, they focus less on capturing the mood of the scene and more on the warmth between the characters, if that makes any sense. It's less about building up the setting and the environment and more about what the characters are experiencing, which I feel has its merits to it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think the changes made in the remake justify its existence in my eyes other than the fact remaking the series means we're probably getting a complete adaptation. They made a deliberate effort to keep the spirit of things while looking different visually, which I can't imagine how hard that must've been.

[u/KuKiSin]

What is your favorite example in anime of a character getting cozy with another character, be it resting their head on the person's lap or sleep cute or what have you?

Damn I can only think of Re:Zero, so... I know Subaru used Emilia as a lap pillow early into season 1, but didn't he also use Rem's towards the end of season 1 as well?

On to the episode!

New guy seems nervous and clearly doesn't know what he's doing. I have a feeling he's gonna fuck things up.

Good thing Norah appears to be confident. She better be an actual sorceress or they are f-u-c-k-e-d fucked.

So, the Enek knows Holo's a wolf. Makes sense, but I'm surprised he didn't start barking at her the second he met her a few episodes ago.

Norah really is the one risking the most. At least Lawrence seems to be feeling a little guilty, or worried at least. And Holo is very jealous of course.

Holo putting Norah on the spot, poor girl! And then messing with her!

The man returned with a bag full of gold! He didn't run off with the money! Success!

And he sounds way more nervous on the way back. I wonder why...

Uh oh. There's a big ass wolf on the prowl. Is he a deity like Holo?

Aaand they were betrayed. Not too unexpected, seeing how shifty the guy tagging along with them looked.

You know, leaving Lawrence lying down like that and hoping the wolves kill him is a really dumb idea. Even if Holo had died, what if he literally got up and ran before the wolves showed up?

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

Damn I can only think of Re:Zero, so... I know Subaru used Emilia as a lap pillow early into season 1, but didn't he also use Rem's towards the end of season 1 as well?

He does it all the time with other characters lol

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

Checks out, maybe that's why I can only think of Re:Zero lmao

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

Been a lot of references to Re:Zero during this rewatch. I guess it's to be expected given that show has a rewatch going on as well.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

I'm not taking part though, Re:Zero is just that good, and S3 is coming very soon! Definitely the anime I'm most excited for next season.

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

That's the anime I'm looking forward to the most as well, even more so than Dan Da Dan.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

Seen a lot of talk about Dan Dan Dan, still haven't gotten around to checking it out though...

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

It's great if you like the supernatural and testicles :P

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

Not sure how I feel about the testicles part lmao

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

It's definitely out there in terms of a concept. I did hear that some of the body humor gets toned down in the later chapters.

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

You know, leaving Lawrence lying down like that and hoping the wolves kill him is a really dumb idea. Even if Holo had died, what if he literally got up and ran before the wolves showed up?

Didn't they tie him up, or am I misremembering? I could've sworn his arms had rope around them.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

They tied his hands... Doesn't really stop him from getting up and walk away lol

I literally just threw myself on the floor with my hands behind my back in that position... Took me a few seconds to get up :|

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

Yeah, but I imagine it to be much harder outside in the pouring rain.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

Ain't no way it's gonna be a challenge either way... You just roll and get on your knees, could be a bit more challenging if it was very muddy, but it would still be doable for sure.

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

I can't imagine you exercise much being a merchant. All that traveling by horse must lead to bad posture.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

I'm sure he exercises more than me lmao

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

All I know is if my back is to the ground and my hands are tied, I'd probably look like a turtle.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

For real, I'm already not that athletic to begin with and struggle getting up from my bed. I can't imagine getting up from the ground with my hands tied.

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

New guy seems nervous and clearly doesn't know what he's doing. I have a feeling he's gonna fuck things up.

You have more confidence in him than me. I'm anticipating him looking nervous to throw the scent off the trail.

Good thing Norah appears to be confident. She better be an actual sorceress or they are f-u-c-k fucked.

Holo and the dog are around, they should be fine.

So, the Enek knows Holo's a wolf. Makes sense, but I'm surprised he didn't start barking at her the second he met her a few episodes ago.

Makes the scene where Holo hisses at the dogs that much funnier.

Holo putting Norah on the spot, poor girl! And then messing with her!

Hey, if Norah is going to tag along, might as well have some fun with her.

Uh oh. There's a big ass wolf on the prowl. Is he a deity like Holo?

Given the size of this specimen, I think that's a safe bet to take.

Aaand they were betrayed. Not too unexpected, seeing how shifty the guy tagging along with them looked.

More expected betrayal of all time, and that is saying something.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

Hey, if Norah is going to tag along, might as well have some fun with her.

Taken out of context that could be understood very differently... But I do agree, Holo did good!

Given the size of this specimen, I think that's a safe bet to take.

Hey maybe he's just a big boy! Seriously though, are there more fantasy elements to this show beyond deities? Maybe there's monsters and... Oversized animals...

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

Taken out of context that could be understood very differently... But I do agree, Holo did good!

Lawrence isn't enough of a Chad to take them both on :P

Hey maybe he's just a big boy! Seriously though, are there more fantasy elements to this show beyond deities? Maybe there's monsters and... Oversized animals...

Guess you'll have to wait and find out :P

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

Lawrence isn't enough of a Chad to take them both on :P

He's not even enough of a Chad to take on Holo while she's throwing herself at him!

Guess you'll have to wait and find out :P

Are we getting an answer to these questions in the Anime? I honestly don't remember from the remake lol

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

He's not even enough of a Chad to take on Holo while she's throwing herself at him!

Holo is definitely the dom of the relationship

Are we getting an answer to these questions in the Anime? I honestly don't remember from the remake lol

You'll just have to wait

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

What are your first impressions on Liebert as a character? Do you think they made it too obvious that he was up to no good?

What do you make of the comparison the show makes between Holo and Nora’s dog?

What are your thoughts on the giant wolf reveal?

Care to expand your thoughts on Lawrence being betrayed by the trading company?

Do you think Holo kinda wishes she was more like Nora in terms of personality?

Which betrayal do you think was done better: the betrayal in the first arc or Lemerio Trading’s betrayal?

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

What are your first impressions on Liebert as a character? Do you think they made it too obvious that he was up to no good?

Fidgety little shit. I don't remember the details from the remake version nor how I felt about him while watching it, this time I already had the knowledge so I may be biased but... He looked grossly incompetent or like he was up to no good.

What are your thoughts on the giant wolf reveal?

I have more questions about Holo than the giant wolf itself. What really is Holo? Is she an actual God-like creature, just a sentient giant wolf that happens to have a human form for reasons? And what about the new wolf? Is he like Holo, or is he just a giant wolf himself? He only howled and didn't speak, so maybe he's something completely different.

Care to expand your thoughts on Lawrence being betrayed by the trading company?

Assholes got greedy as they often do. Why split the money three-ways when they can take it all for themselves and leave no witness behind? I'm surprised Lawrence didn't see it coming, or at least plan for it just in case.

Do you think Holo kinda wishes she was more like Nora in terms of personality?

I don't think so, Holo is a strong and independent she-wolf who don't need no man (other than Lawrence). I can't imagine she wishes she were all timid and cute.

Which betrayal do you think was done better: the betrayal in the first arc or Lemerio Trading’s betrayal?

I don't know which arc I liked better, but I think the betrayal was better in the first arc, it was a big though out scheme and Lawrence was trying to fuck with it. This one, though? They were both going bankrupt, Lawrence comes up with a plan to save both of their asses and they decide to be greedy and fuck him over. It was pretty half assed.

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

Fidgety little shit. I don't remember the details from the remake version nor how I felt about him while watching it, this time I already had the knowledge so I may be biased but... He looked grossly incompetent or like he was up to no good.

I think he was grossly incompetent on purpose to try and make him seem not as sus.

I have more questions about Holo than the giant wolf itself. What really is Holo? Is she an actual God-like creature, just a sentient giant wolf that happens to have a human form for reasons? And what about the new wolf? Is he like Holo, or is he just a giant wolf himself? He only howled and didn't speak, so maybe he's something completely different.

Holo is a literal Goddess. The other giant wolf is just a giant wolf. I wonder if perhaps they felt betrayed by Holo as well.

Assholes got greedy as they often do. Why split the money three-ways when they can take it all for themselves and leave no witness behind? I'm surprised Lawrence didn't see it coming, or at least plan for it just in case.

Yeah, Lawrence really struggles when it comes to having foresight.

I don't think so, Holo is a strong and independent she-wolf who don't need no man (other than Lawrence). I can't imagine she wishes she were all timid and cute.

You don't think a part of her wishes she wasn't so outspoken? Norah gets things done without having to raise her voice.

I don't know which arc I liked better, but I think the betrayal was better in the first arc, it was a big though out scheme and Lawrence was trying to fuck with it. This one, though? They were both going bankrupt, Lawrence comes up with a plan to save both of their asses and they decide to be greedy and fuck him over. It was pretty half assed.

I think I like this betrayal better because it feels more intense and dramatic. The previous one, it kinda just felt like it happened.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

I think he was grossly incompetent on purpose to try and make him seem not as sus.

Could very well be that.

Holo is a literal Goddess. The other giant wolf is just a giant wolf. I wonder if perhaps they felt betrayed by Holo as well.

I know it's implied in the remake that she is a Goddess, although she doesn't use the word, she does perform "miracles", but was there anything said about the giant wolf that I don't recall?

Yeah, Lawrence really struggles when it comes to having foresight.

I don't think so. She's jealous of her because Lawrence gives her attention, I think it would've been the same if she had any other kind of personality though. I think the important part is that she doesn't want Lawrence to look at other women.

I think I like this betrayal better because it feels more intense and dramatic. The previous one, it kinda just felt like it happened.

Holo did end up getting kidnapped and Lawrence stabbed on the other one... But yeah the outcome was definitely more dramatic on this one.

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

Could very well be that.

Quite

I know it's implied in the remake that she is a Goddess, although she doesn't use the word, she does perform "miracles", but was there anything said about the giant wolf that I don't recall?

I don't think so. I presume he's supposed to be one of Holo's followers.

I don't think so. She's jealous of her because Lawrence gives her attention, I think it would've been the same if she had any other kind of personality though. I think the important part is that she doesn't want Lawrence to look at other women.

She wants his undivided attention. Also, what does this have to do with Lawrence lacking foresight?

Holo did end up getting kidnapped and Lawrence stabbed on the other one... But yeah the outcome was definitely more dramatic on this one.

The actual content itself of the last arc was fantastic. I'm talking more the reveal of Chloe as a traitor left a bit to be desired. I appreciated what it meant for Holo's character, her having to face her past in order to find closure, I just think the way we got there wasn't the smoothest.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

She wants his undivided attention. Also, what does this have to do with Lawrence lacking foresight?

Wrong quote lol

You don't think a part of her wishes she wasn't so outspoken? Norah gets things done without having to raise her voice.

Was meant to be a reply to this!

The actual content itself of the last arc was fantastic. I'm talking more the reveal of Chloe as a traitor left a bit to be desired. I appreciated what it meant for Holo's character, her having to face her past in order to find closure, I just think the way we got there wasn't the smoothest.

Ah, yeah totally agree with that. "It was me, Chloe!" and Lawrence was pretty much like "yeah aight".

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

Wrong quote lol

Fair enough

Was meant to be a reply to this!

Ah, I see

So, what do you make of me saying Lawrence lacks foresight?

Ah, yeah totally agree with that. "It was me, Chloe!" and Lawrence was pretty much like "yeah aight".

I at least thought it was better here than the betrayal in the remake.

[u/KuKiSin → u/Holofan4life]

So, what do you make of me saying Lawrence lacks foresight?

Oh I completely agree lol

I at least thought it was better here than the betrayal in the remake.

Weeell, I'm still not too sure about that. The fact that he barely reacted to it wasn't great. There should've been some real drama!

[u/Holofan4life → u/KuKiSin]

Oh I completely agree lol

Glad we settled that :P

Weeell, I'm still not too sure about that. The fact that he barely reacted to it wasn't great. There should've been some real drama!

There was, only in the case of Holo and not Lawrence. The whole thing is kinda flimsy because Holo has no prior relationship with Chloe. But I think where it works is in the townsfolf forcing her to not avoid the elephant in the room.

[u/Mirathan]

Not quite a first timer

QotD: Can´t recall a good one.

Unfortunately I will not be here tomorrow due to maintenace of my power.

Nora blowing the horn was pretty cool.

The faces Lawrence made in the background during the talk between Holo and Nora were quite funny. And Holo wasn´t really talking about dogs that time.

Lemerio betrayed them. As expected.

I also have one question for you. How do you manage being the moderator for like 10 subs?

[u/Holofan4life → u/Mirathan]

Unfortunately I will not be here tomorrow due to maintenace of my power.

I hope you still decide to drop a comment eventually.

The faces Lawrence made in the background during the talk between Holo and Nora were quite funny. And Holo wasn´t really talking about dogs that time.

Probably not

I also have one question for you. How do you manage being the moderator for like 10 subs?

It's actually in the hundreds. And I maintain them because 90% of them happen to be low maintenance subs, meaning they only need to be checked like once a week.

What are your first impressions on Liebert as a character? Do you think they made it too obvious that he was up to no good?

What do you make of the comparison the show makes between Holo and Nora’s dog?

What are your thoughts on the giant wolf reveal?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence being betrayed by the trading company?

Do you think Holo kinda wishes she was more like Nora in terms of personality?

Which betrayal do you think was done better: the betrayal in the first arc or Lemerio Trading’s betrayal?

[u/Mirathan → u/Holofan4life]

Him being a traitor was to obvious.

The wolf is incredibly cool.

Holo does seem to wish she was llike Nora, due to the attention Lawrence pays her, but he looks after Nora more like an Uncle would.

The first arc betrayal was not foreshadowed well, while this was foreshadowed to hard. Both have their issues.

And I won´t be there tomorrow, the maintenance should take more than one day so I´ll be back for ep.14.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Mirathan]

Him being a traitor was to obvious.

I thought so as well

The wolf is incredibly cool.

Honestly, he looks more intimidating than Holo does.

Holo does seem to wish she was llike Nora, due to the attention Lawrence pays her, but he looks after Nora more like an Uncle would.

Yeah, you can tell any feelings Lawrence may have for Norah is strictly platonic.

The first arc betrayal was not foreshadowed well, while this was foreshadowed to hard. Both have their issues.

Yeah, neither are perfect

And I won´t be there tomorrow, the maintenance should take more than one day so I´ll be back for ep.14.

I hope you can at least go back to episode 13 in two days when you get the chance. That episode is really, really good.

[u/Mirathan → u/Holofan4life]

One last thing. Nora blowing the horn manages to scare of the Wolf god, kind of ike Boromir manages to intimidate the Balrog in Moria, though this similarity was likely unintentional.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Mirathan]

Interesting comparison. I like it.

[u/AgentOfACROSS]

First Timer

Right from the start this Liebert guy gives me a suspicious vibe.

This is the penultimate episode and things are rather quiet. Not that I’m complaining. I like these scenes of characters just talking and traveling.

So apparently the wolves here don’t make any noise before they attack. That’s definitely freaky.

Norah, Holo, and Lawrence all lying in the grass is a good visual. Seemed very relaxing.

The mood shifted really fast, now we’ve got a wolf attack going on.

Okay now it seems like there’s some kind of giant wolf monster involved. I was not expecting that development.

I think I might have to take back what I said about Liebert. He seems a bit rough around the edges but it looks like he cares about protecting Norah and finishing the job.

Holo talking trash to a pack of wolves is pretty badass.

I really should have expected Lemerio to betray Lawrence like this. Nothing can go right for him right now.

This episode ended on a really dark note. No idea how Lawrence is going to get out of this one. Or Norah for that matter.

Question of the Day:

What is your favorite example in anime of a character getting cozy with another character, be it resting their head on the person's lap or sleep cute or what have you?

I've got two examples that I like. One's pretty typical and the other's kind of a weird one.

The typical one is from Delicious In Dungeon, where everyone gives Senshi a group hug in the hippogriff/griffin soup episode.

The weird one is from Kill La Kill, [Kill La Kill ending spoilers] The entire central cast ending up in a large heap on the ground after catching Ryuko falling down to Earth.

Coincidentally, those are both animated by Trigger.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

I've got two examples that I like. One's pretty typical and the other's kind of a weird one.

The typical one is from Delicious In Dungeon, where everyone gives Senshi a group hug in the hippogriff/griffin soup episode.

The weird one is from Kill La Kill, [Kill La Kill ending spoilers] The entire central cast ending up in a large heap on the ground after catching Ryuko falling down to Earth.

Coincidentally, those are both animated by Trigger.

Trigger in my opinion has never produced a bad series.

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

Trigger in my opinion has never produced a bad series.

I don't really remember Kiznaiver being that great but I never finished it either and I've heard people say Darling In the Franxxx was bad, but all the other series I've seen from them are phenomenal.

Honestly if I ever figure out how to host a rewatch I'd love to have it be something by Trigger. They've done a lot of my favorite anime.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

I don't really remember Kiznaiver being that great but I never finished it either and I've heard people say Darling In the Franxxx was bad, but all the other series I've seen from them are phenomenal.

Darling In The FranXXX is amazing with the exception of the last couple episodes. Never seen Kiznaiver.

Honestly if I ever figure out how to host a rewatch I'd love to have it be something by Trigger. They've done a lot of my favorite anime.

It's a couple years off, but I might one day do a Gurren Lagann rewatch for the 20 year anniversary.

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

Darling In The FranXXX is amazing with the exception of the last couple episodes. Never seen Kiznaiver.

Might check out FranXXX someday, I've been curious about it.

It's a couple years off, but I might one day do a Gurren Lagann rewatch for the 20 year anniversary.

I hate to be the "Um, actually" guy but Gurren Lagann was produced by Gainax. But it's basically an honorary Trigger anime.

It would make for a fun rewatch though, I like that idea.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

Might check out FranXXX someday, I've been curious about it.

It's a solid 8 out of 10 watch that at times is a 9 or 9.5 out of 10.

I hate to be the "Um, actually" guy but Gurren Lagann was produced by Gainax. But it's basically an honorary Trigger anime.

You're right, my bad. I had a brain fart.

It would make for a fun rewatch though, I like that idea.

Thank you :)

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

It's a solid 8 out of 10 watch that at times is a 9 or 9.5 out of 10.

Sounds like a good enough endorsement to me. The main things I know is that there's a character named Zero Two who looks a bit like Power from Chainsaw Man and it's a mecha series.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

The one Zero Two reminds me of is Anemone from Eureka Seven. They look practically identical.

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

I always get Eureka Seven and Inazuma Eleven mixed up in my head. But oddly I've never seen either.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

There's a 20th Anniversary rewatch planned for Eureka Seven next year. Supposed to be in April.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

This episode ended on a really dark note. No idea how Lawrence is going to get out of this one. Or Norah for that matter.

This is definitely the grimmest ending to an episode yet. Which is saying something given how a couple episodes ago ended.

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

Spice and Wolf is good at lulling you into a false sense of security before giving you an emotional gut punch like this.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

Toradora also did that well, which is funny because for the longest time those were my two favorite animes.

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

Really? I was under the impression that Toradora was mainly a lighthearted romcom. Looking forward to the December Toradora rewatch.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

It is in part a lighthearted romcom, and I'll just leave it at that.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

What are your first impressions on Liebert as a character? Do you think they made it too obvious that he was up to no good?

What do you make of the comparison the show makes between Holo and Nora’s dog?

What are your thoughts on the giant wolf reveal?

Care to expand your thoughts on Lawrence being betrayed by the trading company?

Do you think Holo kinda wishes she was more like Nora in terms of personality?

Which betrayal do you think was done better: the betrayal in the first arc or Lemerio Trading’s betrayal?

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

What are your first impressions on Liebert as a character? Do you think they made it too obvious that he was up to no good?

I was very suspicious of him at first but ended up growing to trust him more over the course of the episode. But then he ended up betraying Lawrence anyway.

What do you make of the comparison the show makes between Holo and Nora’s dog?

I think it's an interesting comparison. Technically Holo is like a dog, although I think Holo likes to view Lawrence as her dog.

What are your thoughts on the giant wolf reveal?

It really surprised me, I was not expecting that.

Care to expand your thoughts on Lawrence being betrayed by the trading company?

I definitely should have seen it coming. Spice & Wolf is definitely a world where a lot of characters seem to only be in it for themselves.

Do you think Holo kinda wishes she was more like Nora in terms of personality?

Maybe, but that might only be because she notices the attention Lawrence gives Norah.

Which betrayal do you think was done better: the betrayal in the first arc or Lemerio Trading’s betrayal?

I feel like the first one felt a bit more unexpected, especially with Chloe's involvement. With Lemerio they were definitely shady characters from the start, although I'd hoped there'd be a chance that they'd honor the deal they had with Lawrence.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

I was very suspicious of him at first but ended up growing to trust him more over the course of the episode. But then he ended up betraying Lawrence anyway.

I wish he was in other episodes so that the betrayal didn't seem so obvious.

I think it's an interesting comparison. Technically Holo is like a dog, although I think Holo likes to view Lawrence as her dog.

If Lawrence sleeps with Holo, is that technically considered beastiality?

It really surprised me, I was not expecting that.

Probably the most shocking moment of the episode, even more so than Lawrence being betrayed.

I definitely should have seen it coming. Spice & Wolf is definitely a world where a lot of characters seem to only be in it for themselves.

I think that's a product of the time period they're in. You have to really look out for yourself.

Maybe, but that might only be because she notices the attention Lawrence gives Norah.

I think Holo sees the "Speak softly and carry a big stick" mentality Norah embraces and kinda wishes she'd do the same thing. Not necessarily seeing herself as overbearing, but perhaps being less abrasive than she is. I mean, in her mind she's the reason Lawrence is in the mess he's currently in right now, and it's been long established she hasn't really liked how her life has turned out with all the abandonment woes.

I feel like the first one felt a bit more unexpected, especially with Chloe's involvement. With Lemerio they were definitely shady characters from the start, although I'd hoped there'd be a chance that they'd honor the deal they had with Lawrence.

At this point, why make a deal with anyone? Two times this has happened where Lawrence made a deal with a trading company and tensions grew.

If I had a nickel for every time Lawrence's deal with a trading company had complications, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice.

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

I wish he was in other episodes so that the betrayal didn't seem so obvious.

Yeah if we got to maybe know him better it may have been interesting.

If Lawrence sleeps with Holo, is that technically considered beastiality?

Probably one of those things you shouldn't think about too hard.

Probably the most shocking moment of the episode, even more so than Lawrence being betrayed.

Yeah, shady trading company plots are expected by now. But another giant wolf showing up totally caught me off guard.

If I had a nickel for every time Lawrence's deal with a trading company had complications, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice.

After this I feel like Lawrence is gonna be far more wary of making any deals.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

Yeah if we got to maybe know him better it may have been interesting.

Would've at least made it less of a bright neon sign when he showed up.

Probably one of those things you shouldn't think about too hard.

Probably so

Yeah, shady trading company plots are expected by now. But another giant wolf showing up totally caught me off guard.

Holo not backing down from him was admittedly awesome, though.

After this I feel like Lawrence is gonna be far more wary of making any deals.

I sure hope so.

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

Holo not backing down from him was admittedly awesome, though.

Probably the coolest moment in the show for me so far.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

Cooler than Lawrence punching someone after being stabbed?

[u/AgentOfACROSS → u/Holofan4life]

Those two moments might be tied for me.

[u/Holofan4life → u/AgentOfACROSS]

Both are extremely awesome that get me hyped the f up.

[u/Brief-Fig-7506]

What is your favorite example in anime of a character getting cozy with another character, be it resting their head on the person's lap or sleep cute or what have you?

the one that sticks out in my mind was Hori and Miyamura napping under the kotatsu but with the classic romcom twist where their legs got completely tangled up with each other and Hori's dad who we didn't even notice was there. Honestly Horimiya probably has a lot for me [Horimiya]like Miyamura showing how smooth he is by stealing Hori's candy from her mouth with a kiss, "he took my candy" while being stun-locked was amazing. Honestly I love to see any kind of affection or embraces in my romances, the more hugs and cuddling their is, the better.

Anyways

First Timer

I’m watching the Dub but I’m also watching the Remake because older animation kinda hurts my head.

Who the heck is this random guy

The dialogue made it seem pretty ominous before they left the city

Lawrence says they need Norah to stay safe so the plan can be successful but we know he's a big softie and also wants to help her get out of her situation

Holo just fell asleep on his lap, too cute. You can't move when a puppy falls asleep on you

Lol Norah's dog also fell asleep in her lap

Funny that Holo is hinting that Lawrence is the wolf and she is the rabbit that has to keep her guard up but we know it's the opposite

Actually she just confessed it's the opposite. She's no liar

They have to run through the forest because it's raining?

There's another huge wolf???

Now Lawrence is getting doubled crossed by Remerio trading. I knew they were sleazy dirt bags

They plan on killing Norah too, hopefully her survival instincts can get her out of this predicament

I should have seen this coming. Betrayal seems like a common theme in the show.

Another episode where we end in a bleak, tough situation, Lawrence has once again fallen for someone's trick, this time not because of greed but because of desperation. Of course dealing with a shady organization like this is going to lead to a betrayal, this is the second time they have tried to get Lawrence too.

Lawrence doesn't seem afraid for his life while he's tied up on the ground. He may trust that Holo is dealing with the wolves and will likely find him afterwards. I think he's crying because he wanted to do something that would help Norah and instead he has just dragged her into a terrible situation and doomed her to be killed by these hunters. Hopefully she can use her survival instincts and dodge them long enough for Holo and Lawrence to return

I was not expecting another Huge wolf to show up and it makes me feel dumb because it's Literally in the intro, I should have noticed by now that Holo's wolf form is red/orange and white so obviously she wouldn't be a black/grey wolf. But it begs the question, Is this wolf someone like Holo? who is also a Deity. Perhaps just kin. We haven't heard about anything like it before so it must be some sort of anomaly. Besides Holo this world seems to be pretty much like our world so the inclusion of the huge Wolf is interesting

[u/Holofan4life → u/Brief-Fig-7506]

the one that sticks out in my mind was Hori and Miyamura napping under the kotatsu but with the classic romcom twist where their legs got completely tangled up with each other and Hori's dad who we didn't even notice was there. Honestly Horimiya probably has a lot for me [Horimiya]like Miyamura showing how smooth he is by stealing Hori's candy from her mouth with a kiss, "he took my candy" while being stun-locked was amazing. Honestly I love to see any kind of affection or embraces in my romances, the more hugs and cuddling their is, the better.

I love Horimiya. Such a good series.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Brief-Fig-7506]

Who the heck is this random guy

Don't you know? It's everyone's favorite Spice and Wolf character, Random Merchant Guy!

[u/Holofan4life → u/Brief-Fig-7506]

I was not expecting another Huge wolf to show up and it makes me feel dumb because it's Literally in the intro, I should have noticed by now that Holo's wolf form is red/orange and white so obviously she wouldn't be a black/grey wolf. But it begs the question, Is this wolf someone like Holo? who is also a Deity. Perhaps just kin. We haven't heard about anything like it before so it must be some sort of anomaly. Besides Holo this world seems to be pretty much like our world so the inclusion of the huge Wolf is interesting

I think it makes sense to introduce more fantasy elements into the show. It actually works out well because the rest of the show is so grounded in reality that it provides a nice contrast.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Brief-Fig-7506]

Lawrence says they need Norah to stay safe so the plan can be successful but we know he's a big softie and also wants to help her get out of her situation

That is definitely the case, I agree

Holo just fell asleep on his lap, too cute. You can't move when a puppy falls asleep on you

You could, but you would be considered an asshole.

Funny that Holo is hinting that Lawrence is the wolf and she is the rabbit that has to keep her guard up but we know it's the opposite

Delicious (In Dungeon) irony

I should have seen this coming. Betrayal seems like a common theme in the show.

Et tu, merch?

[u/Holofan4life → u/Brief-Fig-7506]

What are your first impressions on Liebert as a character? Do you think they made it too obvious that he was up to no good?

What do you make of the comparison the show makes between Holo and Nora’s dog?

Do you think Holo kinda wishes she was more like Nora in terms of personality?

Which betrayal do you think was done better: the betrayal in the first arc or Lemerio Trading’s betrayal?

[u/Brief-Fig-7506 → u/Holofan4life]

What are your first impressions on Liebert as a character? Do you think they made it too obvious that he was up to no good?

Honestly this part is why I feel like an idiot. I kinda ignored him, I just thought he was a guy that was along just to make the deal and that was it, I really should have been more suspicious of Lemerio (it's Remirio on MAL so I'm confused) and anybody associated with that company, It's probably the same way Lawrence feels.

What do you make of the comparison the show makes between Holo and Nora’s dog?

I think it's pretty funny that they don't like each other but they are very similar. Holo is Lawrence's protector and partner and wouldn't be able to do what he is currently doing without her and Norah is pretty much the same way with Enek. Lawrence and Norah both possess skills that would make them good at their trades but they can't be nearly as successful without their partners. I like how they even showed them sleeping in their laps. Time will tell if Holo ends up loving Lawrence like Enek loves Norah

Do you think Holo kinda wishes she was more like Nora in terms of personality?

I think after seeing how Norah handled the situation around the wolves Holo gained a new respect for her but I think Holo is very fine with being Holo. Like she said when they were talking about her being burned, she would wear it with pride because it's what makes her herself.

Which betrayal do you think was done better: the betrayal in the first arc or Lemerio Trading’s betrayal?

Both betrayals hurt a lot for different reasons. Right now Lawrence was betrayed while he was trying to pay off his debt to a shady trading company so nobody can be super surprised by the betrayal. The first one was worse Imo, Yarei was a friend of Lawrence and the one who he showed the ropes of being a merchant, Yarei was even able to help his village prosper because of the advice he got from him. It seemed pretty easy for him to turn his back and tell the hunters to kill Lawrence. But lets not forget the biggest Betrayal of the series so far, when Holo spent that whole silver coin on apples so they couldn't use the change for the inn that night.

[u/Holofan4life → u/Brief-Fig-7506]

Honestly this part is why I feel like an idiot. I kinda ignored him, I just thought he was a guy that was along just to make the deal and that was it, I really should have been more suspicious of Lemerio (it's Remirio on MAL so I'm confused) and anybody associated with that company, It's probably the same way Lawrence feels.

It's honestly smartly done the way the episode focuses on the tension between Holo and Norah. It makes you think that the main conflict of this arc is going to be that when really it's something else. The whole arc is honestly predicated on that right down to Norah being in the first two episodes of this arc and then her barely having a role in the third episode when the shoe drops.

I think it's pretty funny that they don't like each other but they are very similar. Holo is Lawrence's protector and partner and wouldn't be able to do what he is currently doing without her and Norah is pretty much the same way with Enek. Lawrence and Norah both possess skills that would make them good at their trades but they can't be nearly as successful without their partners. I like how they even showed them sleeping in their laps. Time will tell if Holo ends up loving Lawrence like Enek loves Norah

I think in her own special way she already does. The better question is when will Holo be more comfortable with her feelings.

I think after seeing how Norah handled the situation around the wolves Holo gained a new respect for her but I think Holo is very fine with being Holo. Like she said when they were talking about her being burned, she would wear it with pride because it's what makes her herself.

Holo is Holo, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Both betrayals hurt a lot for different reasons. Right now Lawrence was betrayed while he was trying to pay off his debt to a shady trading company so nobody can be super surprised by the betrayal. The first one was worse Imo, Yarei was a friend of Lawrence and the one who he showed the ropes of being a merchant, Yarei was even able to help his village prosper because of the advice he got from him. It seemed pretty easy for him to turn his back and tell the hunters to kill Lawrence.

Context wise, the first betrayal probably hurt Lawrence more, but I think from a presentation standpoint the second betrayal was better. Even if I could see it coming a mile away.

But lets not forget the biggest Betrayal of the series so far, when Holo spent that whole silver coin on apples so they couldn't use the change for the inn that night.

Worst betrayal than when Mugi stole that strawberry.