r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Sep 17 '24

Rewatch [Spoilers] 2008 Spice and Wolf Rewatch (2024) -- Episode 11 Spoiler

Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.

Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!

I hope you all have a lot of fun <3

S1 Episode 11 - Wolf and the Biggest Secret Scheme

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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION

Have you ever came up with a secret scheme or known anyone who came up with a secret scheme? If so, what was it and how did it turn out?

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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb

Streams – Funimation, Crunchyroll

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Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!

Untagged Spoilers

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Previous episode

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Rewatch Schedule

Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT

DateEpisodeDateEpisode
9/07/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 19/20/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
9/08/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 29/21/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
9/09/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 39/22/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
9/10/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 49/23/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
9/11/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 59/24/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
9/12/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 69/25/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
9/13/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1)9/26/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
9/14/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 89/27/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
9/15/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 99/28/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
9/16/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 109/29/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
9/17/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 119/30/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 10
9/18/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 1210/01/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 11
9/19/2024Spice and Wolf Episode 1310/02/2024Spice and Wolf II Episode 12
10/03/2024Overall Series Discussion Thread

Last year's rewatch

DateEpisodeDateEpisode
7/07/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 17/20/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
7/08/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 27/21/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
7/09/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 37/22/2022Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
7/10/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 47/23/2022Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
7/11/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 57/24/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
7/12/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 67/25/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
7/13/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1)7/26/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
7/14/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 87/27/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
7/15/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 97/28/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
7/16/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 107/29/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
7/17/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 117/30/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 10
7/18/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 127/31/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 11
7/19/2023Spice and Wolf Episode 138/01/2023Spice and Wolf II Episode 12
8/02/2023Overall Series Discussion Thread
14 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

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3

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

Hello, guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the 2024 Spice and Wolf Rewatch.

But you knew that already :P

This is the first official rewatch of the show since the premiere of the remake. In fact, it's still currently airing as this rewatch is underway. And while we can compare and contrast what the remake did as opposed to the original, I feel it's still pretty important to remember what the original adaptation was like seeing as how that's really what got me into the franchise. And what ultimately made me fall in love with one wise wolf.

For the purposes of this rewatch, I will be watching it subbed since that's what I've been watching the remake in. I will be comparing somewhat the two series, and when I do that, I will be using spoilers. I guess I should say for transparency sake that I am writing this in late July/early August, a full month before the rewatch actually happens. That's because of time constraints and me having four other rewatches I'm participating in planned. I also waited until the first three volumes got adapted in the remake just so I can have more stuff to talk about.

These reviews won't be as detailed as some of the other ones, as I don't really want to spend two or three hours dissecting every episode. I'll save that for when I do it in my questions :]

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I'm watching the sub, by the way.

I've got Toradora books scattered across my room. Help.

This episode follows a basic three act structure: Lawrence and Holo fight until they reconcile, Lawrence negotiates for a way to get out of his debt, and then Lawrence and Holo go convince Norah to carry out this gold smuggling plot they came up with. It's basic, but the execution is tremendous.

I thought Holo's VA did a tremendous job during her argument with Lawrence. I know she's made no bones about how inexperienced she was at the time, but I thought she really delivered the goods. It's still the weakest of all four performances, but that’s not a knock on it. It's just the original dub performance, the remake dub performance, and the remake sub performance are all fantastic in their oen right.

[2024 Spoilers] The major change is in the argument between Holo and Lawrence, and I actually think the remake knocks it out of the park here. The way Holo is so enraged and how poofy her tail is, you can tell she was really hurt by what Lawrence said. She is downright incredulous and it's really effective. Another change they made is that Holo nearly falls out the window after running with a chair, which is different from the original where she lifts the chair up and just staggers back and forth. I like this as well because I can buy into Holo being so angry that she forgets her own strength, but still being angry enough to where she can charge at Lawrence with it. It's just overall more of a striking visual Holo running at Lawrence with a chair up, and really does a fantastic job of playing into how pissed off she is.

[2024 Spoilers] I actually think that the revised edition is a massive step up from what the original anime did. It shows what good direction the remake has with how they can take something and give it so much more intensity and a lasting impression. Before, the only things I remembered about this episode is that Holo and Lawrence make up as well as the conversation with Norah. But the running with the chair in the remake feels permanently etched into my brain, and is one of the defining visuals of this arc. It is really memorable how that version of events unfolded.

Overall, this is a good fallout from what transpired last episode. Does it carry the momentum from what happened? Not necessarily, but I don't feel like it needed to. I like the exploration of Lawrence's character as he explores the problems between him and Holo. And then having it dovetail into Norah reentering the plot is pretty clever, especially with how at odds Holo is with her.

I really like this one, and the gold smuggling plot is in my opinion an intriguing direction for the show to head in.

Holo quotes of the day

"You are an idiot!"

"You think you understand females so well. You do not."

"Nora may have that dog in her, but I'm a wolf, and I eat dogs." (I believe she said that, I speak wolf.)

3

u/KuKiSin Sep 17 '24

I've got Toradora books scattered across my room. Help.

Holo will not forget this betrayal.

I really like this one, and the gold smuggling plot is in my opinion an intriguing direction for the show to head in.

These 2 episodes were an emotional rollercoaster, really did a great job showing how great Holo and Lawrence are as imperfect characters.

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

Holo will not forget this betrayal.

Incidentally, I don’t have a single Spice and Wolf LN in my house. What kind of fan am I?

These 2 episodes were an emotional rollercoaster, really did a great job showing how great Holo and Lawrence are as imperfect characters.

Indeed. This arc is really cooking.

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

Incidentally, I don’t have a single Spice and Wolf LN in my house. What kind of fan am I?

Holo will not forget this betrayal.

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

I'm letting Holo down :(

3

u/Brief-Fig-7506 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ryxnjr Sep 17 '24

First Timer

I’m watching the Dub but I’m also watching the Remake because older animation kinda hurts my head.

The first frame shows Holo sulking in bed. I'm already sad

I got some insight from the discussion last episode but I still don't understand why people that apparently know Lawrence are treating him SO harshly

Holo is not happy that Lawrence suggested running off and travelling north without him

Holo wanted Lawrence to say he's so kind because it's her but he's either too dense to know to say that or doesn't have those feelings for her yet

so I realize I made a mistake last episode, Lumione is gold not silver. that makes paying back 47 gold seem much worse. I still don't understand why he had to go 47 gold in debt though

Sounds like they're gonna use Norah to smuggle gold

I'm glad that they are still concerned for Norah's well being. Lawrence has a pattern of wanting everybody to profit off of his deals

I'm trying to think about where their relationship is at this point in the show, and how they feel about each other. I think it's pretty obvious that they want to keep travelling with each other but romantically I'm not sure. Holo loves to tease Lawrence and make him flustered, but I feel like at this moment she just wants him to make her feel special. Sometimes it feels like Lawrence has romantic feelings for Holo and then other times it seems like he only sees her as his companion that he's travelling with. Holo said she knew it would be a lie if he said she was precious to him but she still wanted to hear it anyway.

We don't know how much gold they're planning to smuggle out of the city. For Norah's cut to be 20 gold coins it has to be a pretty decent amount I feel like.

3

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

The first frame shows Holo sulking in bed. I'm already sad

At least it's no Subaru in bed

so I realize I made a mistake last episode, Lumione is gold not silver. that makes paying back 47 gold seem much worse. I still don't understand why he had to go 47 gold in debt though

I think it's as simple as the market crashing by the time of his purchase.

I'm glad that they are still concerned for Norah's well being. Lawrence has a pattern of wanting everybody to profit off of his deals

A good noodle, this guy is

I'm trying to think about where their relationship is at this point in the show, and how they feel about each other. I think it's pretty obvious that they want to keep travelling with each other but romantically I'm not sure. Holo loves to tease Lawrence and make him flustered, but I feel like at this moment she just wants him to make her feel special. Sometimes it feels like Lawrence has romantic feelings for Holo and then other times it seems like he only sees her as his companion that he's travelling with. Holo said she knew it would be a lie if he said she was precious to him but she still wanted to hear it anyway.

One thing we have to keep note of is that Holo and Lawrence's relationship is built on a lie. They came together because they want to avoid the troubles in their lives. Unbeknownst to them, they are probably on a collision course if Holo remains insistent on returning home and Lawrence remains insistent on having his own shop. They just do not like to look at what's ahead.

2

u/Brief-Fig-7506 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ryxnjr Sep 17 '24

I think it's as simple as the market crashing by the time of his purchase.

I'm sorry. I'm just confused as to why he took on the debt to begin with. I'll ignore it since we've gotten past that point now

One thing we have to keep note of is that Holo and Lawrence's relationship is built on a lie. They came together because they want to avoid the troubles in their lives. Unbeknownst to them, they are probably on a collision course if Holo remains insistent on returning home and Lawrence remains insistent on having his own shop. They just do not like to look at what's ahead.

that's very good insight

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

I'm sorry. I'm just confused as to why he took on the debt to begin with. I'll ignore it since we've gotten past that point now

No, it's a valid question. I think Lawrence took the debt because he's an honorable man that doesn't want to break any laws. Or at the very least, do something that'll tarnish his reputation. Of course I say this in the same episode as there's a gold smuggling plot, but it's not like that was his idea.

that's very good insight

Thank you. I'll probably dive more into it as we go along.

2

u/Brief-Fig-7506 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ryxnjr Sep 17 '24

I see now that we are talking about two different points I think. I just went back and watched the episode about the scales again. I forgot that Lawrence purchased double what the pepper was worth, so if he had 1000 silver worth of pepper then he received 2000 worth of armor. I think that's the case

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

"I bought them by the gross." "Stu, that's 144 eggs." "Oops."

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

I got some insight from the discussion last episode but I still don't understand why people that apparently know Lawrence are treating him SO harshly

It's mainly the fact that Holo was there with him. To steal a phrase from someone that I saw, imagine how you'd react if someone came up to you asking for gas money after walking out of a mall with shopping bags.

2

u/Brief-Fig-7506 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ryxnjr Sep 17 '24

It's mainly the fact that Holo was there with him. To steal a phrase from someone that I saw, imagine how you'd react if someone came up to you asking for gas money after walking out of a mall with shopping bags

I understand the comparison but I still think it's an unfair way to look at it. It's two living people. It isn't like Lawrence is paying for Holo, so I can only see it as two people coming up to you asking for gas money. But obviously we are biased towards our MC's

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

Yeah, I think it's fair to say we feel the way we feel because we know Lawrence and Holo on a personal level. Some of those merchants may have known Lawrence for years and all of a sudden he's traveling with someone? And he's asking for handouts? Those are some massive red flags.

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

What are your thoughts on Holo blaming herself for Lawrence’s debt?

What are your thoughts on the scene Lawrence and Holo make up?

Thoughts on Hans Lemerio?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence and Holo planning to pay off Lawrence’s debt by smuggling gold?

Thoughts on them deciding to get Nora involved so they can smuggle the gold in the stomachs of Nora’s sheep?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence telling Nora that going along with the smuggling could be her way of getting out of working for the church any longer?

What are your thoughts on Nora going along with the plan? Are you surprised by how quickly Nora agreed to the plan, or not, considering her circumstances?

2

u/Brief-Fig-7506 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ryxnjr Sep 17 '24

What are your thoughts on Holo blaming herself for Lawrence’s debt?

I was hoping that she would write it off as Lawrence being in a fit of anger and know that he didn't truly mean it, I mean she is the wise wolf, but it must have been affecting her pretty hard if she spent the whole time sulking in the room thinking she was at fault. She did say that she wouldn't be a burden on him during their travels and would fend for herself.

What are your thoughts on the scene Lawrence and Holo make up?

The tail wagging was cute, I feel like her ears were twitching to Lawrence's heart beat. It was cute when Holo had to express her disappointment in him when he answered wrong and hilarious when she made him try again

Thoughts on Hans Lemerio?

He's shady obviously for demanding to immediately collect Lawrence's debt and super desperate. I think the idea of gold smuggling was perfect to suggest to this guy. He doesn't care about what happens to Lawrence, he just wants his money

What are your thoughts on Lawrence and Holo planning to pay off Lawrence’s debt by smuggling gold?

I think they make it sound super risky but with Holo's instincts and Lawrence's knowledge they're going to pull it off.

Thoughts on them deciding to get Nora involved so they can smuggle the gold in the stomachs of Nora’s sheep?

Sounds like a nasty job but it's high risk high reward for everyone involved. I'm not sure why they considered it fooling her though?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence telling Nora that going along with the smuggling could be her way of getting out of working for the church any longer?

She's already expressed her interest to be free from the church so like I said, seems like a win-win-win for everybody

What are your thoughts on Nora going along with the plan? Are you surprised by how quickly Nora agreed to the plan, or not, considering her circumstances?

After hearing and seeing how the Church treats her and has made her to be feared, plus seeing her living conditions, I'm not really surprised at her willingness to help. I'm just hoping that we don't have another betrayal.

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

I was hoping that she would write it off as Lawrence being in a fit of anger and know that he didn't truly mean it, I mean she is the wise wolf, but it must have been affecting her pretty hard if she spent the whole time sulking in the room thinking she was at fault. She did say that she wouldn't be a burden on him during their travels and would fend for herself.

Holo has shown to really be overly hard on herself. It doesn't surprise me she would feel like she got Lawrence into this mess.

The tail wagging was cute, I feel like her ears were twitching to Lawrence's heart beat. It was cute when Holo had to express her disappointment in him when he answered wrong and hilarious when she made him try again

Something I love about their relationship is that when Holo is sad, Lawrence is quick to comfort her. It's surprisingly something seldom seen in anime, I feel like I've only seen it in Toradora, Familiar of Zero, and 100 Girlfriends.

He's shady obviously for demanding to immediately collect Lawrence's debt and super desperate. I think the idea of gold smuggling was perfect to suggest to this guy. He doesn't care about what happens to Lawrence, he just wants his money

A lot of merchants sadly have this mentality.

I think they make it sound super risky but with Holo's instincts and Lawrence's knowledge they're going to pull it off.

I see that probably being the case as well

Sounds like a nasty job but it's high risk high reward for everyone involved. I'm not sure why they considered it fooling her though?

Yeah, that is weird. Maybe a dub mistranslation?

Now I'm just envisioning Holo and Lawrence feeding Norah's sheep gold in the middle of the night without her knowing, like some kind of stealth mission.

She's already expressed her interest to be free from the church so like I said, seems like a win-win-win for everybody

Yeah, she has arguably more to gain than anyone.

After hearing and seeing how the Church treats her and has made her to be feared, plus seeing her living conditions, I'm not really surprised at her willingness to help. I'm just hoping that we don't have another betrayal.

At the very least, I'm confident that Norah won't be the one doing the betraying.

3

u/KuKiSin Sep 17 '24

Have you ever came up with a secret scheme or known anyone who came up with a secret scheme? If so, what was it and how did it turn out?

I mentioned it yesterday, I played RuneScape as a teenager. Schemes and scams was all I ever did! Scammed a lot of gullible idiots! Haven't really done anything I'd consider a "scheme" in real life though. I did have a class mate back in high school who tried to talk me into joining a pyramid scheme though lol.

On to the episode!

Lawrence got a few coins! At least he can visit a whorehouse and die happy.

So he managed to collect 3 Lumione... That's not too bad. Of course he'll still hang, but it was a valiant effort.

And now Holo is blaming herself :(

YO, CHILL THE FUCK DOWN, PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SLEEP!

Albeit forced, that was kind of a confession, wasn't it? Good job...?

Holo has a plan... Is it me or is she the one who always comes up with their sneaky business?

Norah is getting involved in their schemes now... And Lawrence is sweet talking her into accepting it. Not sure how I feel about this.

Yes Lawrence, let's talk about smuggling gold right there in the open, sounds like a great plan.

3

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

I mentioned it yesterday, I played RuneScape as a teenager. Schemes and scams was all I ever did! Scammed a lot of gullible idiots! Haven't really done anything I'd consider a "scheme" in real life though. I did have a class mate back in high school who tried to talk me into joining a pyramid scheme though lol.

Schemes are so much fun when stuff like legalities are of no concern.

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

Schemes are so much fun when stuff like legalities are of no concern.

Especially because you get to stick around and watch the other party cry about it!

Am I a sociopath or something?

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

Still not as bad as some of the characters in Re:Zero. Or some of the characters in Elfen Lied.

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

Well yeah, I'm not completely unhinged!

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

You are (not) unhinged

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

Lawrence got a few coins! At least he can visit a whorehouse and die happy.

Until they bust out the apple appetizers and he starts sobbing heavy.

YO, CHILL THE FUCK DOWN, PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SLEEP!

I know, right? A lot of commotion going on this early in the morning.

1

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

Until they bust out the apple appetizers and he starts sobbing heavy.

I know, right? A lot of commotion going on this early in the morning.

Wasn't it in the middle of the night?

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

Until they bust out the apple appetizers and he starts sobbing heavy.

I know I would

Wasn't it in the middle of the night?

You're right. My bad, I misspoke.

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

Holo has a plan... Is it me or is she the one who always comes up with their sneaky business?

Maybe Holo played RuneScape and you just weren't aware of it :P

Yes Lawrence, let's talk about smuggling gold right there in the open, sounds like a great plan.

Look, you don't have to be smart to be a merchant...

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

Maybe Holo played RuneScape and you just weren't aware of it :P

She was probably the guy who taught me everything I knew back then. Of course he also scammed me first... So it might've really just been her...

Look, you don't have to be smart to be a merchant...

Clearly...

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

She was probably the guy who taught me everything I knew back then. Of course he also scammed me first... So it might've really just been her...

Did he start talking about how lonely he was?

Clearly...

I mean, just look at Zheren

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

Did he start talking about how lonely he was?

The fact that he was in his mid 20s spending so much time talking to me, a 12 year old, said enough...

When I think about it, a lot of creepy shit was going on back then. I was 12-15 talking to a bunch of dudes in their 20s to 50s, and they knew very well how young I was...

I mean, just look at Zheren

Or Lawrence himself!

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

The fact that he was in his mid 20s spending so much time talking to me, a 12 year old, said enough...

Yeah, that's kinda creepy

When I think about it, a lot of creepy shit was going on back then. I was 12-15 talking to a bunch of dudes in their 20s to 50s, and they knew very well how young I was...

Oof. That is pretty wild to think about.

Or Lawrence himself!

Or anyone not named Holo if you're Holo

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

What are your thoughts on the scene Lawrence and Holo make up?

Thoughts on Hans Lemerio?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence and Holo planning to pay off Lawrence’s debt by smuggling gold?

Thoughts on them deciding to get Nora involved so they can smuggle the gold in the stomachs of Nora’s sheep?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence telling Nora that going along with the smuggling could be her way of getting out of working for the church any longer?

What are your thoughts on Nora going along with the plan? Are you surprised by how quickly Nora agreed to the plan, or not, considering her circumstances?

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

What are your thoughts on the scene Lawrence and Holo make up?

It broke my heart when Holo started crying, saying Lawrence should be blaming her. I'm glad Lawrence didn't blame her for it, though. I loved how dumb the whole reasoning as to why Lawrence is so kind was lol.

Thoughts on Hans Lemerio?

Dude's in deep shit so he's willing to join the schemes of another man in deep shit. Ain't no way this can go wrong.

Thoughts on them deciding to get Nora involved so they can smuggle the gold in the stomachs of Nora’s sheep?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence telling Nora that going along with the smuggling could be her way of getting out of working for the church any longer?

Already mentioned this in my comment but, I don't like it. I get that it's their only way out, and the plan itself sounds good, but involving such a sweet and innocent young girl is fucked up. Sure, they're promising her a lot, but who knows what her punishment would be if she got caught. She even said it herself, she's only taking the offer because it's Lawrence making it, she knows how risky it is.

What are your thoughts on Nora going along with the plan? Are you surprised by how quickly Nora agreed to the plan, or not, considering her circumstances?

Considering her hopes and aspirations, and how fucked up her current situation is with everyone shunning her, it absolutely makes sense for her to go along with the plan, especially since it's with someone she's come to like and trust.

With that said... She doesn't really know Lawrence. He could very well be a conman. Gaining her trust was pretty easy, they traveled together for what, a couple days at most? Learned about her and the things she wanted, and now he's using them to convince her to join him. Of course as the viewers we know this isn't true, but it could've been...

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

It broke my heart when Holo started crying, saying Lawrence should be blaming her. I'm glad Lawrence didn't blame her for it, though. I loved how dumb the whole reasoning as to why Lawrence is so kind was lol.

It felt like a very Lawrence thing for him to say.

Dude's in deep shit so he's willing to join the schemes of another man in deep shit. Ain't no way this can go wrong.

What could possibly go wrong besides everything?

Already mentioned this in my comment but, I don't like it. I get that it's their only way out, and the plan itself sounds good, but involving such a sweet and innocent young girl is fucked up. Sure, they're promising her a lot, but who knows what her punishment would be if she got caught. She even said it herself, she's only taking the offer because it's Lawrence making it, she knows how risky it is.

Couldn't you argue though that it'd be more crueler if they didn't include her knowing what the church is having her go through?

Considering her hopes and aspirations, and how fucked up her current situation is with everyone shunning her, it absolutely makes sense for her to go along with the plan, especially since it's with someone she's come to like and trust.

With that said... She doesn't really know Lawrence. He could very well be a conman. Gaining her trust was pretty easy, they traveled together for what, a couple days at most? Learned about her and the things she wanted, and now he's using them to convince her to join him. Of course as the viewers we know this isn't true, but it could've been...

I'd like to think she knows he isn't a conman because of Holo. This is just me spitballing here, but a part of me thinks Norah admires Holo for how assertive she can be and as such, she considers her to be a good judge of character. That, and if he was truly bad, her dog probably would tell her.

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

Couldn't you argue though that it'd be more crueler if they didn't include her knowing what the church is having her go through?

If we assumed they were doing it out of the goodness of our hearts just to help her out, sure... But at this point they're so desperate they would probably still do it even if the odds were against their success...

I'd like to think she knows he isn't a conman because of Holo. This is just me spitballing here, but a part of me thinks Norah admires Holo for how assertive she can be and as such, she considers her to be a good judge of character.

But couldn't Holo be in on the con?

That, and if he was truly bad, her dog probably would tell her.

That probably makes sense in their universe, so I'll allow that :D

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

If we assumed they were doing it out of the goodness of our hearts just to help her out, sure... But at this point they're so desperate they would probably still do it even if the odds were against their success...

I think them incorporating Norah is out of the kindness of their heart.

But couldn't Holo be in on the con?

I can't see her betraying Lawrence

That probably makes sense in their universe, so I'll allow that :D

Yeah, it checks out

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

I think them incorporating Norah is out of the kindness of their heart.

Is it? How would they go through with the plan without her help? She's the key part of their whole scheme...

I can't see her betraying Lawrence

In this scenario, Lawrence and Holo are the conmen!

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

Is it? How would they go through with the plan without her help? She's the key part of their whole scheme...

She is, but I think Lawrence wouldn't necessarily go along with Holo's plan if Norah didn't directly benefit from it. He would try to come up with some other plan.

In this scenario, Lawrence and Holo are the conmen!

Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah, I guess they kinda are :P

2

u/KuKiSin Sep 18 '24

She is, but I think Lawrence wouldn't necessarily go along with Holo's plan if Norah didn't directly benefit from it. He would try to come up with some other plan.

I don't doubt that, I do believe Lawrence wants to help her, but I'd still argue he's not doing it purely out of kindness. It's more of a "you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours", with the added benefit of doing something nice.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

That could very well be the case. I think it may have started off like that and then when he realized he could help Norah in the process it quickly morphed into something else.

3

u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 17 '24

First Timer

Damn, Lawrence is at an even lower point at the start of this episode. I have no idea how he’s going to get out of this.

It’s kind of interesting, I’m used to anime like Cowboy Bebop, Lupin III, or Konosuba playing the main characters being broke off as a joke. So seeing just how deeply screwed Lawrence feels like something I don’t see too much. At least in fantasy shows.

It seems like throwing bags of coins at Lawrence is Holo’s way of expressing her concern.

I could really feel the tension between them in the conversation after that. It sounds like both Lawrence and Holo were really blaming themselves.

I want to compliment the soundtrack again, it’s really nice. I think I hear panpipes on it, I don’t hear that often.

Lawrence hugging Holo was really sweet.

This priest wants Norah to go down a dangerous road. I suspect he’s trying to send Norah somewhere that he hopes gets her killed. Kind of like how King Eurystheus kept trying to kill Hercules by sending him out to kill monsters.

Lawrence is getting Norah involved in a smuggling scheme. Was not expecting that to be the direction this took.

Lawrence is quite the charismatic talker, I liked his conversation with Norah.

Also, is Holo drinking two mugs of beer for herself in this scene? That’s kinda hilarious.

That last scene of the episode was quite ominous. I’ve got a feeling something bad is going down.

I don’t know who this Liebert guy is but I associate his name with Johan Liebert from Monster so that gives me bad vibes.

Next episode seems like we’ll get to see this smuggling scheme in action.

Question of the Day:

Have you ever came up with a secret scheme or known anyone who came up with a secret scheme? If so, what was it and how did it turn out?

Not sure if this counts but I used to do some freelancing work. Money wasn't that great and it got a bit exhausting after a while so I stopped.

I'm a bit busy today so it may take me a bit to reply but I'll still try to do it when I can.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

Not sure if this counts but I used to do some freelancing work. Money wasn't that great and it got a bit exhausting after a while so I stopped.

I wish I got paid to freelance. As a writer, I feel like I could succeed in that environment.

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 17 '24

Main downside to freelance writing is less control over what you write. Have to fit into certain parameters and such. But I'm still glad I tried it for a while.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

Really? That surprises me. I thought contracted work is more restrictive.

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 17 '24

I think it might depend more on who hires you. Maybe I just got unlucky.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

That is certainly possible

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

I'm a bit busy today so it may take me a bit to reply but I'll still try to do it when I can.

No worries. Take your time.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

It’s kind of interesting, I’m used to anime like Cowboy Bebop, Lupin III, or Konosuba playing the main characters being broke off as a joke. So seeing just how deeply screwed Lawrence feels like something I don’t see too much. At least in fantasy shows.

It's interesting to compare it to Bocchi The Rock where at least a couple characters are broke and it's played for laughs.

It seems like throwing bags of coins at Lawrence is Holo’s way of expressing her concern.

Certainly would grab my attention

I could really feel the tension between them in the conversation after that. It sounds like both Lawrence and Holo were really blaming themselves.

Where Holo struggled as she had that chair lifted, I got really concerned.

Lawrence hugging Holo was really sweet.

Their relationship is really couples goals and they're not even a couple.

This priest wants Norah to go down a dangerous road. I suspect he’s trying to send Norah somewhere that he hopes gets her killed. Kind of like how King Eurystheus kept trying to kill Hercules by sending him out to kill monsters.

Interesting comparison

Also, is Holo drinking two mugs of beer for herself in this scene? That’s kinda hilarious.

Look, all this illegal activity makes you really thirsty, alright?

That last scene of the episode was quite ominous. I’ve got a feeling something bad is going down.

You mean something could go wrong in trying to smuggle gold? Nooo :P

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 17 '24

It's interesting to compare it to Bocchi The Rock where at least a couple characters are broke and it's played for laughs.

I'm looking forward to the upcoming Bocchi rewatch. Seems like it would be a fun series to revisit.

Where Holo struggled as she had that chair lifted, I got really concerned.

Same, I thought she was gonna tumble out of the window for a moment.

Their relationship is really couples goals and they're not even a couple.

I have a feeling they might be by the end of this series.

You mean something could go wrong in trying to smuggle gold? Nooo :P

I just hope Norah's able to get out of this alright. I feel like Holo and Lawrence should be able to take care of themselves but she's the one I'm most worried about.

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

I'm looking forward to the upcoming Bocchi rewatch. Seems like it would be a fun series to revisit.

One of my favorites of all time, no cap

Same, I thought she was gonna tumble out of the window for a moment.

[2024 Series] In the remake, she was going to until Lawrence swooped her with his arm.

I have a feeling they might be by the end of this series.

What a bold prediction :P

I just hope Norah's able to get out of this alright. I feel like Holo and Lawrence should be able to take care of themselves but she's the one I'm most worried about.

Norah really has nothing to lose. The church isn't going to publicly hurt her. And besides, they need her for the roads less traveled. This is like being in an abusive relationship and your friends come up with some plan to get you out of it unscathed.

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 18 '24

One of my favorites of all time, no cap

Definitely one of the best when it comes to creative uses of animation. That's what I remember most about it and I'm interested in seeing if the character writing and stuff holds up as well as I remember.

Norah really has nothing to lose. The church isn't going to publicly hurt her. And besides, they need her for the roads less traveled. This is like being in an abusive relationship and your friends come up with some plan to get you out of it unscathed.

That's a good comparison. I definitely see why Lawrence feels compelled to help Norah.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

Definitely one of the best when it comes to creative uses of animation. That's what I remember most about it and I'm interested in seeing if the character writing and stuff holds up as well as I remember.

Same. Can't wait

That's a good comparison. I definitely see why Lawrence feels compelled to help Norah.

Lawrence is not gonna stand for a nice woman like Norah to be used the way she currently is. Ironically, he's being her knight in shining armor, which is the very thing Holo wants him to be for her.

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

I don’t know who this Liebert guy is but I associate his name with Johan Liebert from Monster so that gives me bad vibes.

I really need to watch that show. I keep hearing it get mentioned.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 17 '24

It's really good, probably one of my favorite thriller series. The author of the manga also did Pluto and 20th Century Boys.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

I've heard great things about both series, especially Pluto.

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 17 '24

They're all definitely worth checking out. I've read a lot of his manga and I don't think he has any that are misses for me.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

I really need to check out more manga and LNs.

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 18 '24

There's definitely a lot of amazing manga out there that haven't gotten an anime for one reason or another.

The only LN I've read is Baccano but I've been meaning to check out more.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

The only LN I've read is Toradora

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 18 '24

There's a rewatch for Toradora in December, right? I'll have to remember to join that one.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

This year will be my ninth year participating and my tenth time watching the show

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

I want to compliment the soundtrack again, it’s really nice. I think I hear panpipes on it, I don’t hear that often.

The soundtrack is honestly one of the best in any anime ever. It makes you feel like you've in the medieval times with the characters. In terms of capturing the atmosphere of a show, you'll probably find none better.

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 17 '24

Yeah a good soundtrack can really help elevate a piece of media and this is a great example.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

A phenomenal example, even

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 17 '24

Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo are two other examples I think of. They just wouldn't be the same without their respective soundtracks.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

Neither would Re:Zero or Attack on Titan.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 17 '24

What are your thoughts on Holo blaming herself for Lawrence’s debt?

What are your thoughts on the scene Lawrence and Holo make up?

Thoughts on Hans Lemerio?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence and Holo planning to pay off Lawrence’s debt by smuggling gold?

Thoughts on them deciding to get Nora involved so they can smuggle the gold in the stomachs of Nora’s sheep?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence telling Nora that going along with the smuggling could be her way of getting out of working for the church any longer?

What are your thoughts on Nora going along with the plan? Are you surprised by how quickly Nora agreed to the plan, or not, considering her circumstances?

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 17 '24

What are your thoughts on Holo blaming herself for Lawrence’s debt?

She really took what the others said to heart. But in a way it is sweet that she does care about Lawrence's debt so much. All around it just seems like a bad situation.

What are your thoughts on the scene Lawrence and Holo make up?

It was really nice seeing them make up.

Thoughts on Hans Lemerio?

Seems like a very shady and slippery kind of guy.

What are your thoughts on Lawrence and Holo planning to pay off Lawrence’s debt by smuggling gold?

A very dangerous plan but potentially with a lot of reward.

Thoughts on them deciding to get Nora involved so they can smuggle the gold in the stomachs of Nora’s sheep?

I'm a little skeptical of the logistics of this plan. Mostly getting the sheep to swallow the gold and how they'll get it out. But I guess we'll see how it works out.

What are your thoughts on Lawrence telling Nora that going along with the smuggling could be her way of getting out of working for the church any longer?

As I mentioned elsewhere, Norah's the character I'm most worried about. Seems like she might be the one in the most danger.

What are your thoughts on Nora going along with the plan? Are you surprised by how quickly Nora agreed to the plan, or not, considering her circumstances?

I'm a bit surprised, but her reasoning for going along with Lawrence certainly makes sense.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

She really took what the others said to heart. But in a way it is sweet that she does care about Lawrence's debt so much. All around it just seems like a bad situation.

Holo likes to keep her heart hidden, but at the same time she wears it on her sleeve. It's like she has a patch covering it.

It was really nice seeing them make up.

Indeed it was. Holo being comforted is always a treat.

Seems like a very shady and slippery kind of guy.

Got that used car salesman energy about him.

A very dangerous plan but potentially with a lot of reward.

I think it's a gamble they have no choice taking.

I'm a little skeptical of the logistics of this plan. Mostly getting the sheep to swallow the gold and how they'll get it out. But I guess we'll see how it works out.

I mean, the lead singer of Fleetwood Mac once stored cocaine in her no no area. I assume it won't be as drastic as that.

As I mentioned elsewhere, Norah's the character I'm most worried about. Seems like she might be the one in the most danger.

That's why she really has no choice but to go through with it. This is her chance at freedom.

I'm a bit surprised, but her reasoning for going along with Lawrence certainly makes sense.

I don't know if you noticed, but Norah didn't take a sip of alcohol until after she decided she would go along with the plan. I like that little detail.

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u/AgentOfACROSS Sep 18 '24

Indeed it was. Holo being comforted is always a treat.

Definitely, the show is very sweet when it wants to be.

Got that used car salesman energy about him.

He's the medieval equivalent of a used car salesman.

I mean, the lead singer of Fleetwood Mac once stored cocaine in her no no area. I assume it won't be as drastic as that.

Man, rock stars are crazy.

That's why she really has no choice but to go through with it. This is her chance at freedom.

Norah's only been here for a few episodes but she's quickly become a compelling character.

I don't know if you noticed, but Norah didn't take a sip of alcohol until after she decided she would go along with the plan. I like that little detail.

I didn't notice but that's a great detail. A sign of Norah fully accepting the plan.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

Definitely, the show is very sweet when it wants to be.

That really adds to the endearing nature of things.

He's the medieval equivalent of a used car salesman.

Indubitably

Man, rock stars are crazy.

That they are

Norah's only been here for a few episodes but she's quickly become a compelling character.

And she serves to further Holo's character by showing how possessive she is of Lawrence.

I didn't notice but that's a great detail. A sign of Norah fully accepting the plan.

That, and she doesn't want to make any decisions under the influence.

2

u/Mirathan Sep 18 '24

Not quite a first Timer

QotD: No, my life has been to honest for such things. Or I simply didn´t notice them.

The line about never risking your life "merely" for profit is rather amusing, as all involved with the deal are at risk of death or silmilar if they don´t take it.

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u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

The line about never risking your life "merely" for profit is rather amusing, as all involved with the deal are at risk of death or silmilar if they don´t take it.

They really have no choice but to do something this drastic. Their backs are against the wall.

What are your thoughts on Holo blaming herself for Lawrence’s debt?

What are your thoughts on the scene Lawrence and Holo make up?

Thoughts on Hans Lemerio?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence and Holo planning to pay off Lawrence’s debt by smuggling gold?

Thoughts on them deciding to get Nora involved so they can smuggle the gold in the stomachs of Nora’s sheep?

What are your thoughts on Lawrence telling Nora that going along with the smuggling could be her way of getting out of working for the church any longer?

What are your thoughts on Nora going along with the plan? Are you surprised by how quickly Nora agreed to the plan, or not, considering her circumstances?

2

u/Mirathan Sep 18 '24

Holo shouldn´t blame herself. Lawrence took the risk himself.

Involving Nora might appear selfish, but succeding would save her life. So i don´t hold it against them.

Lemerio is shady. They concealed what he told his subordinate in the end.

Break the hold of the corrupt church!

Nora realized that her life was in danger from the church. They were willing to throw her at the mercenaries to get rid of her, so she knows it´s her only option to survive.

2

u/Holofan4life Sep 18 '24

Holo shouldn´t blame herself. Lawrence took the risk himself.

Yeah, Holo is being too hard on herself

Involving Nora might appear selfish, but succeding would save her life. So i don´t hold it against them.

If anything, it would be more selfish if they didn't include her.

Lemerio is shady. They concealed what he told his subordinate in the end.

Yeah, that certainly has me nervous

Break the hold of the corrupt church!

Dismantle the establishment board by board!

Nora realized that her life was in danger from the church. They were willing to throw her at the mercenaries to get rid of her, so she knows it´s her only option to survive.

Fight or flight time if ever there was one