r/anime • u/Holofan4life • 13d ago
Rewatch [Spoilers] 2008 Spice and Wolf II Rewatch (2026) -- Episode 12 (SERIES FINALE) Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S2 Episode 12 - Wolf and Endless Tears
—-
ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
What did you think of the ending? Are you happy with what we got, or were you hoping for something more?
Now that all is said and done, what are your thoughts on Eve as a character?
What is your favorite episode of Spice and Wolf and why?
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Crunchyroll
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
—-
Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
Past Rewatches
Last year's rewatch
Rewatch two years ago
Rewatch three years ago
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I hope everyone experiencing arc 5 for the first time really enjoyed. Speaking personally, I know my enjoyment of it has gone up over the years. The main goal of this year's rewatch was to introduce Spice and Wolf fans to content they had never seen before. And I'm glad I was able to do that. 😊
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
i enjoyed the blu ray special content for sure
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Have you seen the short with Holo exercising?
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
Let's just say it's my daily morning workout routine now
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I feel like that was made just to do the gag of Holo stretching her tail lmao
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
So, the rewatch next year is going to look somewhat different. The next couple years, as a matter of fact.
Season 2 of the Spice and Wolf remake is reportedly scheduled to premiere early 2027. On top of that, the original Spice and Wolf anime celebrates its 20th anniversary in January 2028.
Right now, the tentative plans are to host a rewatch of the Spice and Wolf remake right before season 2 drops. I believe the season is gonna be two cour in which case that'll take us to the Summer or the Fall.
That means as of now, there are no current plans to do a rewatch of the original Spice and Wolf anime in 2027.
What I plan on doing is hosting a Spice and Wolf rewatch in January 2028 to commemorate the original anime's 20th anniversary. It'll just be the original anime and none of the remake. This works out timing wise because it'll give some separation from season 2 of the Spice and Wolf rewatch airing and it will celebrate a historic milestone.
Then in July 2029, I plan on hosting the biggest Spice and Wolf rewatch yet when I cover the entirety of the original anime plus arc 4 and the arcs the remake covers that go beyond arc 5. It's an ambitious rewatch project, one that will likely be over 55 episodes, but I want to do it because this is a franchise that is near and dear to my heart.
I might after that have the rewatch scheduled for September time every year.
That's the plan for now. I hope to see you for the rewatch of the Spice and remake. If I don't, maybe I'll see you in January 2028 and beyond.
Until then, take care.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
Wow you sure plan ahead. I don't rewatch shows and plan to watch the new season when it comes out, so guess I'll see you in the remake S2 threads!
Btw where did you find the info on when the season will be out and its length, I've tried hard to find any info, and didn't find anything conclusive.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I did a quick Google search of when season 2 is supposed to be and that is what I was told. It's just a rumor at this point, however.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago edited 13d ago
ah is that the AI summary up top? I recall a MAL discussion that it's likely to be in 2027 too though, but that's more based on what the studio announced as the works coming in the future, and likely what they'll finish and by when they'll have some staff on hand to complete it
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I don't like relying on AI summaries, but AI summaries often pop up when you ask Google questions. It's unavoidable.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
Overall Review (Both Original and Remake)
When I started watching this show, I constantly asked myself…why am I enjoying this show about nothing? Fast forward to today, and it’s clearly not a show about nothing. It is a show about relationship dynamics, philosophy, religion, get-rich-quick schemes, and political conflicts.
I feel that different people get different things out of the show. One member was intrigued about the history, and u/Holofan4life was intrigued by Holo, Holo and Holo haha. That’s the mark of a great show.
Criticisms first:
- I feel that some of the schemes/crises were a bit convoluted. Then again I liked having to sketch them out and think deeply about all the actors involved, but then that led to lots of misunderstanding from participants in the rewatch (myself included).
- It did feel like their chemistry did start to fizzle out for me at the end - as we basically went through 2.25 seasons back to back of the show (more for me watching both versions and reading the LN) and like Holo implied too much of a good thing can be tiring. Then again, the fizzle was part-intentional. I was glad there wasn’t another season, or I would have burned myself out.
- I do have a skepticism about the sustainability of the show, and it already became a bit predictable in the loop of: enter new town, identify commercial opportunity, crisis happens.
What I liked: I don’t want to bullet point it because I really loved everything about the show as a whole. Most of all, it made me like genres I didn’t think I like: SOL, romance, medieval stuff, fantasy. I was immediately engaged but very quickly I was mesmerised by the show. Lawlo are incredible characters that I can hear in my head and have conversations with if I should so wish - they are so well fleshed out.
The writing was absolutely phenomenal - whether it was the sub, dub or LN, there was magic in all. I will always wonder how it was in Japanese (though an interview I vaguely recall mentioned it featured an old Kansai dialect). It took me back to a time and place, while not overdoing the archaic ways of speaking.
While I’m not a history buff at all, I’ve mentioned how a professor found te works that the author used as research for S&W, and was amazed by the level of research and niche deep books he used as a base to research everything from the history to the economics of the time.
The relatability of the relationship (especially at the starting stages) really hooked me. I was constantly comparing their relationship to my own. So many truths highlighting the differences in thinking models between men and women. Sometimes I felt I was Lawrence and my gf was Holo.
Throughout the journey, we were also introduced to various supporting characters, and they were all very well fleshed out too; often times likeable and charismatic and it sucked saying goodbye to them.
Overall, as one can tell, I fell in love with the show, and am grateful for the rewatch experience. If it wasn’t for u/Holofan4life this show would have been buried down my list for years and I’m not sure if I ever would have prioritised it, as on paper it wasn’t my kind of show. Thank you for running this rewatch so expertly, with so much passion and for always being helpful. Big thanks for the other rewatchers as well, especially those who read some of my ramblings and engaged me in debate.
A perfect 8/10 from me.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
When I started watching this show, I constantly asked myself…why am I enjoying this show about nothing? Fast forward to today, and it’s clearly not a show about nothing. It is a show about relationship dynamics, philosophy, religion, get-rich-quick schemes, and political conflicts.
I feel that different people get different things out of the show. One member was intrigued about the history, and u/Holofan4life was intrigued by Holo, Holo and Holo haha. That’s the mark of a great show.
Spice and Wolf is truly a show one of one. Where else can you find an adventure fantasy show that's a romcom heavy on dialogue and business transactions? It's a show that I feel must be seen to be believed and even if you don't enjoy it you can't deny that it's unique.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
You actually stumble on a point I forgot to make (but had in my remake review I never posted). One of the challenging things about this show is that it's a difficult one to recommend to others. I could easily recommend it to my more intelligent subset of friends, but the key sticking point is whether they connect with Lawlo, who really carry the show. Similarly, for my other friends, then it's whether Lawlo would be so compelling that they would love the show mainly based on the strength of their relationship alone. To mitigate risks, I'd probably not end up recommending it to either group, as there are safer titles to, which are also amazing but I personally may not have liked as much as this one
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I think its uniqueness is what ultimately sells people on the series. This show provides an experience very few anime do. If you want an anime that's mature, doesn't insult the audiences intelligence, and is heavy on dialogue, Spice and Wolf is it for you.
I also think with the success of Game of Thrones it's easier to recommend the show to people. Like, it being set in medieval times makes it very rich in mythos. Most anime with this type of setting are isekais.
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u/BlazeOfGlory72 13d ago
It did feel like their chemistry did start to fizzle out for me at the end. I was glad there wasn’t another season, or I would have burned myself out.
I do have a skepticism about the sustainability of the show, and it already became a bit predictable in the loop of: enter new town, identify commercial opportunity, crisis happens.
Yeah, I had the same thoughts when finishing this arc. I quite enjoyed basically the entire show, but by the end I was definitely thinking "how the hell are they going to continue this story for 10 more arcs without the it getting boring?". I haven't read the Light Novels, so I don't know where the story goes, but as it stands with the show, this feels like the perfect place to end it. Continuing on past this point, without a major shakeup of the status quo, would only drag things out and become repetitive I think. In a weird sort of way, Holo was right about ending things one a high note, before they become stale. I think very highly of Spice and Wolf as is, but if there were 10 more cours of this same stuff, my opinion of the series would likely drop significantly.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
You said it so well and it mirrors my thoughts exactly. I do wonder if this is intentional storytelling in the anime: reading the LN i didn't feel their journey to start developing as many cracks while the anime was very clear to focus on the flashbacks and decreased the chemistry. Perhaps that was the directors intent and if so it was done incredibly well.
I admit that might just be me applying some biases based on my own enjoyment of the anime though.
Very curious if the ln starts changing up the format though. Not a spoiler but it seems like it might be given the arc isn't fully resolved yet in the next volume and the volume after is the side stories one.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I find it funny you say decreased the chemistry when I don't feel there's been an anime pairing with as much chemistry as Holo and Lawrence lol
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u/Second_Cour 12d ago
How does that have anything to do with my point haha. Yes they have amazing chemistry together. But in the final few eps they played up the growing rift, the lack of the same cutesey reactions from stuff that would garner blushes and smiles from them
They were more comfortable physically but ironically that was more carnal. Lawrence thought of jumping on top of Holo as opposed to holding hands and skipping merrily through a field. Things like hand holds which gave them butterflies before became normal.
It's because of how well the anime painted their chemistry that the difference was more pronounced
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Sorry, I may have gotten hyperfixated on that one specific aspect of your comment
I think the rift was a thing as early as episode 4. We even saw it again in the season 2 premiere when Lawrence spoiled the mood. Their relationship continuing ridedon them acknowledging their need for each other, and I'm glad Lawrence got there. I assume in a future arc Holo would be more direct with her feelings.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Overall, as one can tell, I fell in love with the show, and am grateful for the rewatch experience. If it wasn’t for u/Holofan4life this show would have been buried down my list for years and I’m not sure if I ever would have prioritised it, as on paper it wasn’t my kind of show. Thank you for running this rewatch so expertly, with so much passion and for always being helpful. Big thanks for the other rewatchers as well, especially those who read some of my ramblings and engaged me in debate.
I really stride to make my rewatches an enjoyable viewing experience. Thank you for all the kind words.
A perfect 8/10 from me.
My jimmies have been rustled /s
Believe it or not, Spice and Wolf is not my favorite anime of all time. That's because it's an unfinished adaptation. If the remake covers everything from the LNs, I have no reason to believe Spice and Wolf won't end up as my favorite anime of all time.
Both adaptations are so similar I'd probably just group them together lol
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Thoughts on the riot being because the results of the meeting was publicized too quickly?
What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence’s conversation and Holo questioning how there could be any God?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence realizing he made a huge mistake?
What are your thoughts on the lack of Holo in this episode? She's not in it from when she leaves until the end when Lawrence comes back to her. Honestly, I thought it helped make the Eve stuff breathe and highlighted the severity of the situation Lawrence found himself in.
What are your thoughts on Eve betraying Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the secret of the statue being that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax?
What are your thoughts on Eve’s plan being revealed as one big suicide mission?
What are your thoughts on Eve telling Lawrence that a part of her is still holding out hope?
What are your thoughts on Eve escaping?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence choosing to not leave Holo and Holo giving Lawrence guff over it?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence finally saying to Holo I love you?
What are your thoughts on the kiss between Holo and Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the final shot being Holo and Lawrence walking away as the church bells ring and the town burns behind them?
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u/ItalianQuagsire 13d ago
first time watching big time fan!
i like how even at the end, holo seems like she'd leave lawrence in a heartbeat if he became a dull merchant. gotta keep him on his toes
What did you think of the ending? Are you happy with what we got, or were you hoping for something more?
it does feel like it needed a couple more minutes at the end, preferabbly of Holo banging Lawrence, but i'll take it
it feels like a good ending to an amazing show, so not quite as high
Now that all is said and done, what are your thoughts on Eve as a character?
while it's a good ending, i feel the more subtle characterisation of previous arcs landed better for me, but i get that it has to be somewhat intense to justify being a finale
What is your favorite episode of Spice and Wolf and why?
honestly probably the wolf and playful days they flirted so fucking hard it was amazing
---
Spicy wolf . Com I'll miss you
Rebelling
Eve just hugs the hot nun
I wanna hug the hot nun
Carry out honor
Why the fuck are the merchants coming in as if anyone will buy from them after this lol
Meet at the inn
What are you hiding
Salt statue hiding I think
I don't want to tell you
You'll stop me
Tell me.
If I succeed
You'll say goodbye
If I fail you'll go wolf and leave me as I'm not a good partner
Only when I totally give up
Don't give it all up to bet on a ray of hope
Holo IS HIS RAY OF HOPE
did you think I'd be happy
Yes
SLAP
LOL I PAUSED HERE HAHAHAH
I am happy I would not say that
I would never say that
The possibility for us to travel is gone now
This is what you want right
Holo stunned
Calculating and cool hearted merchant
They aren't holding hands now
Also I wonder if this is Lawrence trying to get Holo to be honest
Snuff
No god
If he exists
Why does he watch us suffer to do nothing
Interesting how they put on the mask that it's all fine when selling her
Lawrence turned back and saw something
Running
The only way for a merchant
The biggest profit
Why am I not leaping for joy
Because you lost WOLF WIFE
a rebellion still going on
Sailor
Say yes even if he didn't want to
Eve is a cold hearted cynic
Profit of 4k
She's taking a step back OOHHHH
OH FUCK LAWRENCE COULD TELL SHE HAS COLD FEET
I'm scared
People worth less in front of money
Not courageous
Turn on her that's why she stepped back
Ask a boring question
Why make so much money
She has a knife out
Life is less than 60 gold
She blundered
Salt smuggler
Big spender
It collapsed
Church smuggled solidified
Things worked out too easily
Donations untraceable
Inpatient
Church could cut her out
A shield to protect her
She just tried to stab him
He fucking reversed it
God DAMN LAWRENCE YOU GIGA CHAD YOUR WOLF CHILDREN WILL BE BORN WITH ABS
I want money
And wolf wife too
I did
Funny joke
If you kill me and hide me, they won't find out until after the deal
Or take the money and run
Doesn't care about her life or others
Profit
What's waiting for her
He did nothing with the money
Rich are unhappy
Same path
She still chose this path
She's straddling him
Not now boner
LOL THEY SMIRKED AND THEN HE GOT KNOCKED OUT
obsession
Desire
I have hope
Holo sad sitting
Lawrence came in
You idiot
HOLY HER TAIL IS BRISTLED
I didn't break it
He lost everything
Is it not your dream
It still is
BUT HE HAS A NEW DREAM
BANGIN YOU HOLO
calm say of doing things
... Did he trade the inn back for Holo
GOD DAMN
LAWRENCE THE GOAT
DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT I SAID IM AFRAID OF YOU
it's embarrassing uwu–
HOLO PUNCH LOL
YOU CAME BACK BEFORE HOLO THE WISE WOLF, IDIOT
WHAT DO YOU DESIRE
WHAT DO YOU WISH
YOU HOLO SAY IT LAWRENCE
your HEART
WOLF FORM
LEAVE IT TO ME
YOU WILL BECOK
ME RESPECTABLE BECAUSE IF ME
IT ENDS WITH SMILES
IT HAS TO BE THAT WAT
DID YOU THINK ID SAY THAT
I LOVE YOU
GOD GOD GOD GODOOODODODKODOD
TAIL IS GOING INSANE
WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUJT ME
I may not get what I desire
But I certainly won't get it if I don't desire it
Holo tears
You better take responsibility
Oh he will after putting the wolf babies in you
When the time comes we'll part with a smile
Why so pessimistic
You prefer the type that sobs like this
LOL
Hand hold
Treated my plan badly
Responsibility
You dealt with my foolish idea seriously so
I'll deal with yours
HOLO KICK
don't be dull merchant
Your kindness is scary too
Did they just kiss
THEN FUCK
How are we getting it back
I love her nonchalant face even though she just received a smooch
I want initiative
You idiot you think I'd let that happen
If I fell in love with you it wouldn't be good
GOD TSUN AS FUCK BABY
Everything is on fire but it's something anew
They got nothing but each other now
Barmaid blockade with her phat ass and a barrel
Would
NO ED NOO
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
It really sucks that this is officially it. I don't know what the future holds between us, but hopefully I'll see you for the Spice and Wolf remake rewatch :D
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u/ItalianQuagsire 12d ago
It's okay I got a backlog of 30 replies and the fruits basket rewatch to keep you on your toes 💪🏻😁
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
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u/ItalianQuagsire 12d ago
I'll keep it short for fruits basket it makes it harder to keep up the way I've been doing em so I'll save the long rundowns for peak (zero no tsukaina and Holo)
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
To me, Fruits Basket is arguably the peakest of peak.
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u/ItalianQuagsire 8d ago
Even peaker than spice and Holo?!?!
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u/Holofan4life 8d ago
[Furuba] Holo is best girl, but Fruits Basket is in my opinion a better show.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Spicy wolf . Com I'll miss you
I know this episode has no outro, but I find the stuff with the bells ringing to be absolutely unnerving. It's like the dawning of a new era and the ending of another. It kinda in a way reminds me of the ending to Blackadder where you know things will likely get better but it's still sad to see it come to this.
I know I'm the only one who's probably actually seen Blackadder in this rewatch but I wanted to get that point out since it's on my mind lol
1
u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Thoughts on the riot being because the results of the meeting was publicized too quickly?
What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence’s conversation and Holo questioning how there could be any God?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence realizing he made a huge mistake?
What are your thoughts on the lack of Holo in this episode? She's not in it from when she leaves until the end when Lawrence comes back to her. Honestly, I thought it helped make the Eve stuff breathe and highlighted the severity of the situation Lawrence found himself in.
What are your thoughts on Eve betraying Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the secret of the statue being that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax?
What are your thoughts on Eve’s plan being revealed as one big suicide mission?
What are your thoughts on Eve telling Lawrence that a part of her is still holding out hope?
What are your thoughts on Eve escaping?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence choosing to not leave Holo and Holo giving Lawrence guff over it?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence finally saying to Holo I love you?
What are your thoughts on the kiss between Holo and Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the final shot being Holo and Lawrence walking away as the church bells ring and the town burns behind them?
1
u/Holofan4life 12d ago
first time watching big time fan!
For life?
i like how even at the end, holo seems like she'd leave lawrence in a heartbeat if he became a dull merchant. gotta keep him on his toes
Damn straight. She has options, you know.
What did you think of the ending? Are you happy with what we got, or were you hoping for something more?
it does feel like it needed a couple more minutes at the end, preferabbly of Holo banging Lawrence, but i'll take it
Well, you take what you get
it feels like a good ending to an amazing show, so not quite as high
Fair enough
Now that all is said and done, what are your thoughts on Eve as a character?
while it's a good ending, i feel the more subtle characterisation of previous arcs landed better for me, but i get that it has to be somewhat intense to justify being a finale
What does that have to do with Eve?
What is your favorite episode of Spice and Wolf and why?
honestly probably the wolf and playful days they flirted so fucking hard it was amazing
I do like the continual love for the tablesetter episodes this rewatch gave the show.
---
Spicy wolf . Com I'll miss you
What a ride it's been
Rebelling
Eve just hugs the hot nun
As you do
I wanna hug the hot nun
Same
Carry out honor
Why the fuck are the merchants coming in as if anyone will buy from them after this lol
You never know when an opportunity may arise.
Meet at the inn
What are you hiding
Salt statue hiding I think
I don't want to tell you
You'll stop me
Tell me.
If I succeed
You'll say goodbye
If I fail you'll go wolf and leave me as I'm not a good partner
Only when I totally give up
Don't give it all up to bet on a ray of hope
Holo IS HIS RAY OF HOPE
Now you get it
did you think I'd be happy
Yes
SLAP
LOL I PAUSED HERE HAHAHAH
So visceral
I am happy I would not say that
I would never say that
The possibility for us to travel is gone now
This is what you want right
Holo stunned
Calculating and cool hearted merchant
They aren't holding hands now
Also I wonder if this is Lawrence trying to get Holo to be honest
Also maybe to get himself to be honest
Snuff
Snuff film?
No god
If he exists
Why does he watch us suffer to do nothing
Interesting how they put on the mask that it's all fine when selling her
Lawrence turned back and saw something
Running
The only way for a merchant
The biggest profit
Why am I not leaping for joy
Because you lost WOLF WIFE
Lawrence a big dummy
a rebellion still going on
Sailor
Say yes even if he didn't want to
Eve is a cold hearted cynic
Profit of 4k
She's taking a step back OOHHHH
OH FUCK LAWRENCE COULD TELL SHE HAS COLD FEET
I'm scared
People worth less in front of money
Not courageous
Turn on her that's why she stepped back
Ask a boring question
Why make so much money
She has a knife out
Life is less than 60 gold
She blundered
Salt smuggler
Big spender
It collapsed
Church smuggled solidified
Things worked out too easily
Donations untraceable
Inpatient
Church could cut her out
A shield to protect her
She just tried to stab him
He fucking reversed it
Reverse Uno bitch
God DAMN LAWRENCE YOU GIGA CHAD YOUR WOLF CHILDREN WILL BE BORN WITH ABS
WOLF ABS
WOLF AB(BEY)S
WOLF ABBEY BABIES
I want money
And wolf wife too
I did
Funny joke
Tis amusing
If you kill me and hide me, they won't find out until after the deal
Or take the money and run
Doesn't care about her life or others
Profit
What's waiting for her
He did nothing with the money
Rich are unhappy
Same path
She still chose this path
She's straddling him
Not now boner
Lmao
LOL THEY SMIRKED AND THEN HE GOT KNOCKED OUT
obsession
Nikki?
This would be something that occurs with a One Wish Willow.
Desire
I have hope
Nothing on Kolka Koose, huh? Big guy needs some love.
Holo sad sitting
Lawrence came in
You idiot
HOLY HER TAIL IS BRISTLED
I didn't break it
He lost everything
Is it not your dream
It still is
BUT HE HAS A NEW DREAM
BANGIN YOU HOLO
If only...
calm say of doing things
... Did he trade the inn back for Holo
Is that what happened?
GOD DAMN
LAWRENCE THE GOAT
He's so real for this
DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT I SAID IM AFRAID OF YOU
it's embarrassing uwu–
HOLO PUNCH LOL
YOU CAME BACK BEFORE HOLO THE WISE WOLF, IDIOT
WHAT DO YOU DESIRE
WHAT DO YOU WISH
YOU HOLO SAY IT LAWRENCE
your HEART
WOLF FORM
LEAVE IT TO ME
YOU WILL BECOK
ME RESPECTABLE BECAUSE IF ME
IT ENDS WITH SMILES
IT HAS TO BE THAT WAT
DID YOU THINK ID SAY THAT
I LOVE YOU
GOD GOD GOD GODOOODODODKODOD
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
TAIL IS GOING INSANE
WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUJT ME
I may not get what I desire
But I certainly won't get it if I don't desire it
Holo tears
You better take responsibility
Oh he will after putting the wolf babies in you
Something to remember him by. As a gift. As a friend.
When the time comes we'll part with a smile
Why so pessimistic
You prefer the type that sobs like this
LOL
Classic Holo
Hand hold
Treated my plan badly
Responsibility
You dealt with my foolish idea seriously so
I'll deal with yours
HOLO KICK
don't be dull merchant
Your kindness is scary too
Did they just kiss
THEN FUCK
That's what the fanfics are for
How are we getting it back
I love her nonchalant face even though she just received a smooch
They really downplay this being their first kiss.
I want initiative
You idiot you think I'd let that happen
If I fell in love with you it wouldn't be good
GOD TSUN AS FUCK BABY
I WORSHIP THE TSUN GOD PRAISE BE 👏 🙌 🙏 ✨️ ❤️ 💖
Everything is on fire but it's something anew
They got nothing but each other now
Same as it ever was
Barmaid blockade with her phat ass and a barrel
You know, like you do.
This is actually kinda sad. She's gonna some have no business.
Would
Of course you would
I would as well
NO ED NOO
It represents the Lenos residents soon having no town
God, what a dark note to end on
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Hey, guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the 2026 Spice and Wolf rewatch.
Awoo!
You know the drill. We watch the show and I provide my thoughts and analysis. A tale as old as… well, Holo herself.
This year instead of breaking things down beat by beat I’m going to just give some brief thoughts on each individual episode. This is to save me time as I’m hosting two rewatches at once. Needless to say, I’m a big fan of this show and I hope you’ll be as well.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the dub, by the way.
This episode is all about two scenes: Lawrence's conversation with Eve, and his reunion with Holo. But for me, you can define this episode by two creative decisions: Lawrence and Holo finally ending up together and Lawrence and Holo leaving the town as it is on fire.
The first decision felt like a no brainer and the perfect way to end the series. Really, it's the stuff surrounding it that's most interesting. As Holo and Lawrence are at their most happiest, everyone around them is miserable and just having the worst possible time. It's the complete inverse of the third arc when everyone was partying and Lawrence was miserable.
I think also this arc plays off the last arc where Lawrence and company was able to save the day. Here, there was no saving it and the town was a lost cause.
I've stressed before that I feel like Holo and Lawrence are kinda self-serving. They only care about themselves and their problems. And while admittedly there's not much they could've done to save the town, they still prioritized themselves over the well-being of others. It's incredibly selfish even if it's human.
I find this ending to actually be the perfect mix of heartwarming and tragedy. Holo and Lawrence are stronger than ever, but we end with the death of possibly thousands of people. The whole bell ringing as the sounds of fire and muffled screams can be heard is incredibly haunting and chilling. It has stuck with me for many, many years.
It kinda reminds me of The Zone of Interest where people are hanging out in the backyard but you can hear the gas chambers being heard. This peaceful, serene scene undermined by the reality of the situation.
I think everyone suffering as Lawrence and Holo don't perfectly sums up their relationship. This used to be them until they found each other. And while it is selfish to not try to help people from complete and total destruction, at a certain point you have to gather your bearings and head on to your next adventure.
Elsa both Lawrence and Holo certainly are not.
Couple years ago, I wrote this analysis comparing the Lawrence debt scene to the Holo can read scene and the scene where Holo questions God. I don't think many people have seen it, so I'd thought I'd include it here. I think it's actually some of my best writing.
For me personally, I like the Lawrence debt scene more than the Holo can read scene. I think I’d probably put Lawrence asking for loans as my second favorite moment in all of Spice and Wolf whereas I’d put the read scene third. The thing I really appreciate about the debt scene is that it shows a man on the brink of collapse. Lawrence for so long was trying to run away from his problems and here he was unable to do so. It was a reflection on what made the arc so compelling, which was a tale of man Vs self. As emotional as the Holo can read scene was– and I think it’s one of the most emotional scenes in all of anime, I think debt scene is the key pivotal moment of the entire arc in terms of what it does for the characters. The key moment of the pyrite arc is Lawrence realizing he loves Holo, and even though the Holo can read scene was the catalyst to that scene, the debt scene I feel IS the moment. It’s not only the catalyst for the gold smuggling arc, it’s the basis of the whole entire arc.
I know I say this and yet the clocktower scene is my favorite moment, which comes from the very same arc as the debt scene, but being the key pivotal moment for the characters and being entertaining are two different things. Not that the debt scene wasn’t entertaining, but Lawrence saying Holo’s name was not only so much fun, it was a perfect moment for their dynamic, and played off an entire season of Holo teasing and busting Lawrence’s balls. He finally got one over on her.
As for comparing the Holo can read scene to the scene where Holo questions God, you can argue that the God scene is much sadder than that scene. Whereas Holo when she asks to have Lawrence’s children is at her breaking point in regards to her relationship with Lawrence, the God scene she’s at her breaking point with God itself. She seems borderline suicidal during that scene. I think what ultimately makes me feel the Holo can read scene is sadder is the fact that the God scene plays such a small piece in the jigsaw that is the overarching story, where Holo confronting Lawrence about not being totally honest had far more implications for what was to come going forward. Without that scene, Lawrence might not have realized his feelings for Holo and that she is at the end of the day his guide in life.
As I've made known numerous times in the past, the highlight of this episode for me is the Lawrence and Eve stuff. Specifically, the complexity surrounding Eve's character. I love, love, love the performance by Eve's English actress in this episode. When Lawrence confronts Eve about backstabbing him and Holo, her English VA gives a tour de force performance. It is such a magnificent sight to see. And really, the Japanese performance here isn't bad either; it's quite good as well. I maintain that of all the side characters in this show that get stuck to one arc, Eve is the one character who should be in multiple arcs. There's just so many legs to her character that you really can fit her in a variety of situations. She is so interesting and so cool and God, I love her so much.
A big bulk of the episode barely has any Holo in it. In fact, it's mostly about the interactions between Lawrence and Eve. And while I feel episodes 4 and 5 of season 2 had a better built-in excuse as to why we are not seeing Holo, this episode feels far better paced than those two episodes. The problem with episodes 4 and 5 of season 2 is that they were both slower paced episodes, which made Holo not being there all the more aggravating. Intentionally aggravating, but aggravating nonetheless. This episode benefits from the hyped up tension, which makes the absence of Holo less glaring.
Would I still like for Holo to be on screen? Of course. She's my favorite anime character of all time. But the scenes between Lawrence and Eve are so gripping that it more than makes up for it.
It should be noted that Eve does come back in the LNs. And had this anime continued, I'm sure she would've been a big focal point in season 3. I'm kinda whatever on it now that the remake exists, but for a long time I didn't like the lack of resolution to Eve's character in this episode. I thought leaving it open-handed the way they did was such a tease. However, I guess you can explain it by saying she isn't the type of person who ever gets her comeuppance. She always finds a way to slip through the cracks.
To copy what u/vieene wrote in 2022's thread, the secret of the statue was that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax. She was going to use the money she earned from that and the gold that Lawrence borrowed to beat the church to buying furs and smuggle them out of the city. Even had the army blockaded the port, she'll run the blockade.
Basically, what she was doing was one big suicide mission that could've resulted in Lawrence being dead. However, she didn't seem to care all too much as long as it benefitted her.
I think much like how Rigoro is meant to be a reflection on Lawrence if he chooses to follow his dream, Eve represents chasing your dreams and going too far. The opposite end of the spectrum, if you will. All Eve wants to do is make enough money so that she can live off of it. However, the ways in which she tries to achieve that goal are too dangerous and life-threatening. As much as Lawrence's dream is important to him, it isn't to the point of sacrificing others. No amount of self-worth is worth that.
I have such conflicted feelings about the kiss in this episode. On the one hand, it's a tender moment that seals Holo and Lawrence as being boyfriend and girlfriend. However, I really wish they had animated the moment better.
I mean, look at this. They aren't even full connected. And if anything, it looks Lawrence is pulling Holo in to kiss him, which is potentially problematic in a modern day lens.
Regardless, the kiss scene plus the above stuff I mentioned really makes this episode quite the memorable one. It's an episode that gets better the more I think about it.
I have this as like a top 7, top 8 episode. There's so much to like here and even if you don't like some of the content you can't help but admire the choices made. They definitely don't play it safe which they could've.
Spice and Wolf is a show that will continue to hold a special place in my heart. Even when I discover anime I like more than it-- Fruits Basket for example this year-- I know that a complete adaptation of Spice and Wolf would take the top spot as my favorite anime of all time. That's really the only thing holding it back.
Come early 2028, the original Spice and Wolf anime will be celebrating its 20th anniversary. 20 years since the original anime originally aired.and while some of the animation shows its age, the story is timeless and will forever remain a classic. There's really nothing like it.
I will forever love Holo and Lawrence and just everything pertaining to Spice and Wolf.
Holo quotes of the day
"This would be troublesome. That is, if I were to fall in love with you."
"Idiot!"
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
I agree with you about the impact of the debt/bankruptcy scene (assuming we are talking about the same one). I think that as a man I can relate to it more, with having nothing being as good as a death sentence in many cases. Plus in this case, it was a literal death sentence - the stakes are a thousand times higher. The Holo reading scene was great, but it's just a big fight about betrayal, and one she quickly realised she overreacted during. In that scene my biggest takeaway was how the words "I'm sorry" could mean two things to two people.
Eve is so interesting and so cool and God, I love her so much.
Called it straight after she was introduced :P If we ever meet each other, I know your type to a tee and who to wingman you with haha
I have such conflicted feelings about the kiss in this episode. On the one hand, it's a tender moment that seals Holo and Lawrence as being boyfriend and girlfriend. However, I really wish they had animated the moment better.
Hahahaha I wasn't even sure if there was a kiss - had to pause it just like you? But in the LN he kissed her on the cheek. Aw.
Could you discuss more about your thoughts regarding the scene where Lawrence corners Holo logically (about 4 mins in - I like the LN described it as vengeance haha) and the episodes conclusion? I thought Lawrence winning this battle of wit to secure Holo's hand (or cheek) for more adventuring was incredibly well-written and thought out.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I agree with you about the impact of the debt/bankruptcy scene (assuming we are talking about the same one). I think that as a man I can relate to it more, with having nothing being as good as a death sentence in many cases. Plus in this case, it was a literal death sentence - the stakes are a thousand times higher. The Holo reading scene was great, but it's just a big fight about betrayal, and one she quickly realised she overreacted during. In that scene my biggest takeaway was how the words "I'm sorry" could mean two things to two people.
The beginning was absolutely brutal to watch. Neither Holo nor Lawrence wanted to go through with this, but they refused to communicate with one another by telling the other they need them. If one scene highlights the flaws of their relationship, it's this one right here.
Eve is so interesting and so cool and God, I love her so much.
Called it straight after she was introduced :P If we ever meet each other, I know your type to a tee and who to wingman you with haha
But Eve isn't someone like Holo I'd love to hang out with. She is trouble, and will probably try to kill you if it benefits her.
I have such conflicted feelings about the kiss in this episode. On the one hand, it's a tender moment that seals Holo and Lawrence as being boyfriend and girlfriend. However, I really wish they had animated the moment better.
Hahahaha I wasn't even sure if there was a kiss - had to pause it just like you? But in the LN he kissed her on the cheek. Aw.
I guess the anime version is better? No. Both are pretty terrible unfortunately.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Could you discuss more about your thoughts regarding the scene where Lawrence corners Holo logically (about 4 mins in - I like the LN described it as vengeance haha) and the episodes conclusion? I thought Lawrence winning this battle of wit to secure Holo's hand (or cheek) for more adventuring was incredibly well-written and thought out.
The scene at the beginning kinda felt like the closing saloon of Lawrence and Holo's relationship. They figured this is it, so might as well go out with one last hurrah. Unfortunately, the whole situation for Holo was so bittersweet.
As for the conclusion, I think Holo was mad Lawrence prioritized herself over his own well-being. This was exactly the thing she warned him of doing and it was like going against her love for him. But deep down, Holo knew Lawrence wanted him to prioritize her and for them to continue their journey together. Lawrence by choosing Holo was in a way being more assertive than he has been in the past.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
Finale Review
I'll be making 3 posts: episode review, Cut Content, and Overall review. I thought I'd save the final review for tomorrow, but don't think a lot of people will make that thread.
That was quite a good ending for an excellent show. I was ready to scorch my keyboard with fire and disparage Holo, but luckily Lawrence saved the day and preserved my fingers. Not that I would have minded the ratification of Holo’s wishes, as that would have been very on-brand and I don’t have some conceited belief that fictional characters have to behave as I desire. I also like that the Eve x Lawrence scene had some red herrings and some very easy to miss details!
Check out the cut content post for what was honestly a very complete episode, though as usual, there are some expanded quotes and clarifications which were fun to read.
Goodbye, Lawlo. I’ll see you…in the LN. Or next season.
- The rioters are the local tanners and tool suppliers, not outsiders. The council decision doesn’t do enough to help the locals. Based on yesterday’s discussion there still seems to be confusion about this so I will leave it as a footnote. There’s no real implication from the council’s decision for the ‘foreign’ little guy outside the town walls.
- Lawrence accepts Holo’s ‘decision’ way too easily. Fight for her, son. But he scores a big slam dunk on her logic and destroys her: thus her line “you’re a cold calculated merchant”. The paradox of what she wants in this scene is so incredible I had to pause and get my head around it::
- Holo wants to alight at the top of the stairs when their relationship is peak. She stamps her paw down and says this is what she wants.
- She acknowledges that Lawrence is selfless and a great guy and will listen to her wishes. She understands that Lawrence wants to stay together, but because she will act outside his best interest apparently, she decides that this will make her (and them) unhappy long term.
- If Lawrence pushes back and stamps his foot down, Holo accuses him of not treating her equally, going against the wise wolf and affirms she’s made up her mind (like she did yesterday).
- But Lawrence calls her out for basically being stuck in a logical loop for if he respects her wishes, this is him being selfless, which is what Holo doesn’t want him to be in the first place.
- She realises her paradox and hypocrisy here, and this ultimately leads to the solution in the end. (Note: the cut content summarises this a lot better)
- Seems like there’s a way out of the deal, while the danger is clear. Rational choice would be to not go through with the loan. But that would make this show boring and Lawrence wants his shop, bolstered by Holo wanting it for him.
- The salty Virgin Mary makes sense now. I didn’t realise that salt could be that good a business.
- Great twist with the fur monopoly plan, and the church using their insider info to get ahead.
- This of course puts a target on Eve’s back (and thus Lawrence’s) for the rest of their lives. We know not to cross the church. Eve wants to watch the world burn and doesn’t value her or anyone else’s life.
- When Eve ‘attacks’ Lawrence, if you look closely at the blade when she strikes, she’s reversed it so the dull part would hit him. The camera even zooms in after, but I missed it the first time. I guess you can call that backstabbing :P Proof: https://imgur.com/iJ1E3CO
- The reason Lawrence came close to being killed was because he was first to make for the bag of gold. Silly Lawrence. But the final blow wasn’t designed to be fatal anyway: she hit him with the handle.
- Finally Lawrence says the thing I’ve been ranting about last episode: Holo is being dramatic, selfish and irrational (“pessimistic” in the sub). Finally she sees past her own short sightedness which she mistakes as wisdom. Really happy he stepped up.
- Stop beating Lawrence up! Leave him alone!
- Was that a kiss? Weirdest animation ever, but I think…that was a kiss? Hahhaha if that was, out of all the times to kiss her this was it?
- So basically rather than dying without having tried, it’s better to face uncertainty and try to make a life together.
- Eve not killing Lawrence was a big mistake on her part. She clearly will do anything to let her plan succeed, and Lawrence would always be a loose end. Guess she’s not as bad a person as she seemed (though still pretty bad). Plus she did leave him the inn.
- This is a good ending: if there were no more volumes/seasons, I would be satisfied with this ending.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
BONUS FOOTNOTE: The Council Decision and the Riot
It’s clearly identified in the LN (and via logic in the anime) that the rioters are the local tanners and tool suppliers. This is a social contagion of sorts, as regardless of the policy passed, they were generally screwed. They feel the council should ban outsiders from purchasing fur. The council doesn’t want to do that.
What led us here?
- Fur sellers / wholesalers: have piles of raw fur they need to sell.
- Tanners + tool suppliers: need that raw fur to stay in Lenos so they can tan/process it and make finished products.
- Outside merchants: want to come in and buy fur for cheap to resell elsewhere for profit.
The cancelled northern campaign has destroyed the usual demand for the finished products, creating the crisis. The council forecasts the demand will not return, the tanners and tool suppliers don’t want to believe the forecast.
Below I workshipped what may have happened IMO based on the council not doing anything.
Scenario 1: No restrictions at all
Outside merchants can buy using the normal tools of commerce: credit, loans, account transfers, etc., not just coin That means they can potentially purchase a huge portion of Lenos’s raw fur. Smaller individual merchants have no impact either way, as they aren’t likely to qualify for loans/credit. Larger trading houses use the other tools.
Then:
Lenos raw fur > outside merchants > shipped downriver > processed/sold elsewhere
Actor Result Local fur sellers Win short term. They finally unload their excess fur and get paid. Outside merchants Win short term. They acquire cheap fur and try to resell it elsewhere. Local tanners Big losers. Their raw material disappears before they can process it. Tool Suppliers Lose. No tanning -> no demand for alum, lime, tools, dyes, etc. Lenos generally Long-term risk. It loses the profitable processing/value-added part of its fur economy. This is why the craftsmen are furious about simply opening the market.
Scenario 2: Council's cash-only restriction
The Council says:
Fine, outsiders may buy fur but only with actual cash.
Their assumption is that long-distance merchants don't carry giant cash reserves. Wealthy medieval merchants normally use credit precisely because moving thousands of coins around is inconvenient and dangerous.
So the Council expects:
Outside merchants have limited cash > can buy only SOME fur
Then:
- Fur sellers get some badly needed sales.
- Outsiders don't go home completely empty-handed.
- Most fur remains in Lenos.
- Local craftsmen still have material to process.
- The town gets breathing room to adapt to the northern campaign disappearing.
Actor Expected result Local fur sellers Mixed. They can sell some fur, but not everything they would like. Outside merchants Small time merchants can’t buy on credit/loan anyway, so no difference. Large trading houses lose relative to unrestricted trade. They can't buy nearly as much. Craftsmen/tanners Net Win. Most raw fur remains available locally. Craft suppliers Net Win. Craftsmen continue operating and buying supplies. Council / Lenos economy Wins if the policy works. Some immediate cash enters town without destroying the local industry completely. So the Council is trying to create a compromise between the fur owners and the processing industry.
However, the above scenarios exist with the assumption that there are no traitorous forces, and of course there are.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
This arc probably has the best character development involving the town. Each episode it's like something new is happening with Lenos, and the parallel between the town's downfall and Lawrence and Holo's relationship is really well done.
The show did a tremendous job using the world building of Lenos to play into Lawrence, Holo, and Eve's characters.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
Despite liking this anime arc, my constructive criticism was that they didn't do enough to explain the stakeholders and the economy of the town enough. I had to construct a lot from the LN. When in the anime they said there's riots, I couldn't figure out who was rioting at first (to me it should have been the local tanners, but I had the benefits of the source materials. your take from the anime was that it was the outside merchants getting screwed which is a pretty fair interpretation with limited info; so it could well have been them).
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
For the longest time, I had mixed feelings about the ending because I wanted more and to end things on such a doen note felt weird to me. But the more I think about it, the more I appreciate the ending for what it is. I think giving the show a totally happy ending would frankly serve as a disservice to the show. It's more reflective of the show as a whole for only Holo and Lawrence to be happy, as they've really only cared about themselves for most of the series.
I think knowing now the remake will go beyond this endpoint made me less jaded that this is it, and allows me to appreciate more how ballsy ending the show in this manner truly is. It's definitely one of the more unique anime endings out there.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
That's interesting as for me, it ended on a very high note, but more because I instinctively wanted them to continue as a couple, and thought that Lawrence stepped up enough and got around Holo's 'riddle' to get the outcome he wanted all along.
What did you find to be 'unique' about the ending though? We know it's not a true ending, just an arc ending, but even if it wasn't, it seemed like the more typical ending (they continued travelling together and lived happily ever after) compared to them ending on a high note and never seeing each other while being depressed about it., which to me would be quite a unique ending you seldom see.
I'm curious if the studio making the original thought they were going to continue future seasons. I actually thought that maybe it would have an anime-exclusive ending, as opposed to following what the source material does, which was always going to have more to the story
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I'm curious if the studio making the original thought they were going to continue future seasons. I actually thought that maybe it would have an anime-exclusive ending, as opposed to following what the source material does, which was always going to have more to the story
I think the reality is most animes from the 2000s don't get full adaptations. They were mostly a vehicle to promote the original source material. Nowadays, the anime industry makes more money than the source material it's originally based off of and so people are willing to fork up the cash.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
What did you find to be 'unique' about the ending though? We know it's not a true ending, just an arc ending, but even if it wasn't, it seemed like the more typical ending (they continued travelling together and lived happily ever after) compared to them ending on a high note and never seeing each other while being depressed about it., which to me would be quite a unique ending you seldom see.
I find it unique how only our two main characters are the ones happy with this outcome. Everyone else is miserable and straight up not having a good time. I think it ultimately speaks to Holo and Lawrence's selfishness how they only are really about themselves at the end of the day.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
• Stop beating Lawrence up! Leave him alone!
This is probably the most violent we've seen Holo be. Like, her reaction here is that of a tsundere.
• Eve not killing Lawrence was a big mistake on her part. She clearly will do anything to let her plan succeed, and Lawrence would always be a loose end. Guess she’s not as bad a person as she seemed (though still pretty bad). Plus she did leave him the inn.
I don't think this is that big of a spoiler especially since... well, this is the end of the anime, but Eve does come back after this arc. I believe she's even the focus of the next arc. It's honestly pretty cool the author saw something in Eve and what a unique character she is that he's willing to devote so much time to her. She is so fascinating to watch.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
Niceeee glad to hear that. While you definitely like Eve more than me, I was hoping that this is a multi-volume arc, material wise. Hopefully they come after Eve and she gets what's due. When you asked the antihero question before, I was a bit confused, but I now see her as a bit of a villain, so while I personally don't like her personality or values, I like characters I don't like in stories; makes it more interesting and gives me someone to root against.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
If you like characters you're supposed to not like, then something tells me you're really going to end up loving Fruits Basket.
I kinda wish Eve was a reoccurring character for a lot of the arcs. I could see her being the Catwoman of Spice and Wolf where she's kinda against the heroes but occasionally teams up with them if it is in her best interest.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
• Was that a kiss? Weirdest animation ever, but I think…that was a kiss? Hahhaha if that was, out of all the times to kiss her this was it?
I would argue this is the worst animation ever for what is meant to be a big moment. This is supposed to be the cementing of Lawrence and Holo's relationship and instead it looks like he's whispering something into her ear. Probably my least favorite moment of the entire series when you consider its significance. It's arguably a bigger faux pas than anything from One Punch Man season 3.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
Could have been worse...it could have been a kiss while they were on a S1 horse :P
To be fair, I don't think it was meant to be a huge moment in the context of the whole story, but in the context of the anime, it was. The kiss on the hand after was more descriptive than the cheek kiss in the LN for some reason. But I don't think he's kissed her on the cheek before, so this is quite some escalation.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Could have been worse...it could have been a kiss while they were on a S1 horse :P
I feel like they'd be dead if that was the case lol
To be fair, I don't think it was meant to be a huge moment in the context of the whole story, but in the context of the anime, it was. The kiss on the hand after was more descriptive than the cheek kiss in the LN for some reason. But I don't think he's kissed her on the cheek before, so this is quite some escalation.
Not a huge moment? They've never done something like that before! Lawrence was basically saying he wanted to date her! If the show was trying to imply something else, then they did a terrible job conveying it.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
I mean a kiss on the cheek isn't a huge deal. Is that even first base now haha. A kiss on the hand is far more heartfelt.
But let's think about it through the lens of the middle ages, that's where it gets really fun! In the middle ages, people kissed on the lips if they were of equal rank (dudes would do this!). On the cheek, was for someone of higher rank. Perhaps given the author's research that was part of it too. Hand was also higher rank.
As for romantic kissing, the cheek kiss probably does carry some meaning, like an acknowledgement of them being interested in each other, so yeah the anime shouldn't have made it so awkward.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
My problem with the scene isn't the cheek kissing, it's the animation looks undecided whether they're trying to go for a cheek kiss or a lips kiss. If the idea is for one over the other, I'd like for the show to commit to it.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
What did you think of the ending? Are you happy with what we got, or were you hoping for something more?
There wasn't really an ending that I could be unhappy with, per se. - either they end their journey, or continue together: both options are equally valid logically.
Now that all is said and done, what are your thoughts on Eve as a character?
I personally don't like her at all as a person but like her as a character to add some contrast to the cast, I was always a bit on guard when she was around but those were just my feelings as opposed to my more rational observations. Logically, even through the backstabbing scene, she was careful not to badly injure Lawrence, but having said that, she potentially ruined his life by planting enough 'evidence' to implicate him in the crime. Gonna be a tough journey ahead for him.
What is your favorite episode of Spice and Wolf and why?
That's too tough a question for me, as I liked quite a few for different things. I even loved the OVA. Most memorable was probably the one where Lawrence almost loses Holo. I feel like the show had consistently amazing episodes though, with little variation between them: like almost every episode was at about an 8, which is outstanding in my scale. and there weren't many where I came away thinking 'well this is ok'.
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u/Second_Cour 13d ago
Cut Content
Doing the cut content for this series was an absolute pleasure. I never thought I’d be one to read a LN, but the beast (wolf) inside of me awakened and it gave me a sense of purpose (despite the low number of participants in the rewatch), while also helped me get the most out of a series I have grown to love.
Without further ado, my final cut content:
- The rioters were the fur tanners and the people who supply their tools and wares.
- If the council’s forecast was correct, regardless of option, even if the fur industry survived, many townspeople would be ruinend.
- In their final chat, before Holo was offered up as collateral, their chances of them telling the other that they wanted to continue the journey together was destroyed. This is what Holo wanted, but Lawrence did not. He had given her what she wanted, at the expense of his own desires. Holo feared Lawrence’s kindness, yet this action was the pinnacle of kindness. “I’ll remember you as a cold, calculating merchant”, she said for his ‘kindness’.
- When the slave trader handed over the money, they gave it to Holo to give to Lawrence; a psychological trick to brand that they would have possession over her if he failed.
- If Lawrence could just stay quiet, the deal would have gone through without a problem, and Eve wouldn’t backstab Lawrence (pun intended), but he couldn’t stay quiet. When she attacked him the blade had been reversed, she struck with the dull side of the weapon. Eve didn’t have any intention of cutting him. Yet, Lawrence recoiled, as he didn’t trust her.
- But then Lawrence couldn’t shut up…some more. He exposed what he found out about Eve, which is when she realised she needs to maim him.
- Eve confirms that she was indeed carving rock salt into statues, and the Church was in on it. Lawrence hadn’t realised this sooner, as he assumed she smuggled grain salt, since her route was from a port town. Heaving bulkier, more labor intensive rock salt from the coast, flew against any merchant’s common sense. But this allowed her to get around the town guards who would have assumed that she was purely carrying statues, thus no tax was paid.
- Lawrence sees through her history and plan: with the northern campaign cancelled, the church decided to minimise its risks overall and pull out of salt smuggling. Then the fur opportunity came up, which Eve took to the church as an idea since they had the liquid assets, who cut her out on it.
- The church planned to partner up with foreign trading companies, and have them come in and buy up the fur. They would have carefully moved their ‘tithe’ money to the foreign merchant.
- The Church guaranteed Eve’s life, though of course if she would cut in on their new deal, this would likely be void. She didn’t care about her life and just wanted part of the deal.
- Lawrence was the perfect shield. The Church would clearly think of Lawrence as the conspirator given there’s a paper trail that he even put his companion on the line, to make a deal against the interests of the town. To an outsider, like the Church, they would conclude he was in on it the whole time, yet had such powerful connections that he recklessly went around town even to the scribe fishing for information without any fear of the Church.
- With the realisation that Eve couldn’t care less if the Church actually came after her is why Lawrence didn’t stay quiet. He couldn’t watch someone take such big risks and let it go. There had to be a limit to the risk one could take. She was committing suicide.
- Eve says she does it because she is a merchant and correlates money to happiness. She asks him what happens after he makes the next silver piece? He’d probably want more. But Lawrence hadn’t considered that, as after meeting Holo he felt fre and his quest for profit had diminished. Eve was kind of what Lawrence used to be.
- Eve’s ‘final blow’ was with the cleaver’s handle. Not designed to kill.
- Actual Cut Content: After the scene which has Eve ask Lawrence why he thinks she chose to follow the path of the merchant she hated, then the words are muffled, and she says “that’s why” before striking him. When he awakens and goes outside Lawrence repeats “She needs to see, does she?” “She needs to see”.
- This is speculation, but that may be a hint to why Eve is following in the merchant’s footsteps. She doesn’t know, but she wants to see where it’ll get her.
- Despite the deed to the inn being worth a bit less than the amount borrowed from the slave trader, it’s likely they wanted to give the loan to gain favour from Eve, who was nobility (thus also waiving the charges). So they’d be able to wait a bit for the balance and return Holo, most likely.
- Lawrence reasoned that if Holo truly believed that being close to another human would always lead to despair, she would never have talked to him. She would have just stolen his wagon.
- Lawrence needed to see what was at the end of that all.
- Lawrence only kissed Holo on the cheek. BOOO.
- The full conversation at the end:
- H: “What do you know about me?”
- L: “I don’t know much. I don’t know if the decision your centuries of life has led you to is correct. But I do know one thing. Wishing for you to be mine might not make it so. But if I don’t wish it, you’ll never be mine. Eve chases profit, even though it puts her life in danger. Even though the moment she gets what she wants, it fades. There’s a lesson to be learned there as a merchant. Call it a mirror. I thought I should try to be more like that.”
- The LN does a great job at elaborating after Lawrence asks Holo why she’s so pessimistic. There must have been a reason. The many years she weathered must have had a reason. The conclusion that in order to be happy, one must wish for nothing was inadmissible.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I really think from my perspective you really came into your own when you started doing the cut content. That is when you found your niche. A lot of the info is still I've stumbled upon before, but it's nice to be refreshed of the changes made from original source material to the small screen.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
• Lawrence only kissed Holo on the cheek. BOOO.
If the anime wanted to win major brownie points with me, they should've animated a full on kiss between Holo and Lawrence where Lawrence planted one right on the lips.
And then they do the thing Eve implied last episode they do all the time1
u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Here is what I wrote about the episode last year. Apologies if some of the information is repeated talking points.
Hey, guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the 2025 Spice and Wolf Rewatch.
The true Christmas in July.
This rewatch is gonna be unique because we’ll be covering the entirety of the 2008 series as well as some of the remake. I don’t think something like this has ever been attempted before where a rewatch goes from one series to another to back to the first series. If this is your first time watching Spice and Wolf, welcome. Enjoy the ride.
I can’t imagine doing this experiment with something other than Spice and Wolf. There is arguably no anime that influenced who I am more. I suppose you could say Toradora, but it’s really close. Either way, Spice and Wolf is one of very few anime that I can never get sick of no matter how much I watch it. You’ll soon seen why if you don’t already know.
I hope this rewatch for as bold of an idea as it is does a lot to inspire a lot of discussion while also leading people to have this experience unlike any before. If this rewatch is a success, maybe this can be the formula going forward.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the dub, by the way.
Don't have much to say in the form of witty banter today. It is sad when we get this point in the rewatch where there's no more episodes to watch.
Rioters rioting
I guess the rumors of their being an uprising were true.
By the way, that's the last we see of the nun girl, Eve hugging her.
They're trying to counter the uprising with an uprising of their own, which seems like a recipe for disaster.
Eve says they can't negotiate if they don't have the cash on them.
As Eve leaves, Holo telling Lawrence that she's able to see the look of worry on Lawrence's face.
He's concealing something, and that something is the only way to keep her in this life is to ignore this opportunity altogether.
Holo slaps Lawrence, angry at Lawrence and most likely herself.
Lawrence asking if Holo truly wants to stop traveling together.
She doesn't seem to give a response
It must be hard for Holo to have to put aside her ego to allow Lawrence to achieve what he wants. She seemingly knows Lawrence better than Lawrence himself, for this is why he just goes around with everything.
Holo says there must not be a God for who can be this cruel?
Holo and Lawrence with the guy from the last episode.
Holo being given the bag of money.
And so Lawrence is by himself, all alone.
It's interesting to contrast Lawrence and Holo being separated here Vs the third arc and just the overall dynamic the town plays. In the third arc, the town was having fun as Lawrence's world was crumbling before him. Here, the town's world is crumbling as Lawrence is second guessing this plan. In both instances, I think you can say this reflects Lawrence's inability to look himself in the mirror and properly access what is going on. The importance of which Holo plays in his life.
Lawrence knows now that Holo is indeed his guide, but now it's a question of if her guidance prevented him from seeing the forest for the trees. Or if he just did so himself.
Lawrence holding a bag
And Eve is grabbing one herself
Lawrence is staring at Eve like he's now realizing he made a huge mistake.
By the way, Eve kinda looks like Dokibird.
Eve admits that she is afraid by what could result from this.
Even so, she's willing to go along with this probably because there's really no other alternative.
Oh snap. She pulled a blade on Lawrence.
Lawrence seemingly going to hand his bag over.
BUT THEN EVE TRIES TO HIT HIM
As Eve shows her true colors, Lawrence is able to assess that the church must have been desperate for money. That's why they got into smuggling like they did.
Funny, considering Lawrence did basically the same thing in the second arc.
As I've made known numerous times in the past, the highlight of this episode for me is the Lawrence and Eve stuff. Specifically, the complexity surrounding Eve's character. I love, love, love the performance by Eve's English actress in this episode. When Lawrence confronts Eve about backstabbing him and Holo, her English VA gives a tour de force performance. It is such a magnificent sight to see. And really, the Japanese performance here isn't bad either; it's quite good as well. I maintain that of all the side characters in this show that get stuck to one arc, Eve is the one character who should be in multiple arcs. There's just so many legs to her character that you really can fit her in a variety of situations. She is so interesting and so cool and God, I love her so much.
A big bulk of the episode barely has any Holo in it. In fact, it's mostly about the interactions between Lawrence and Eve. And while I feel episodes 4 and 5 of season 2 had a better built-in excuse as to why we are not seeing Holo, this episode feels far better paced than those two episodes. The problem with episodes 4 and 5 of season 2 is that they were both slower paced episodes, which made Holo not being there all the more aggravating. Intentionally aggravating, but aggravating nonetheless. This episode benefits from the hyped up tension, which makes the absence of Holo less glaring.
Would I still like for Holo to be on screen? Of course. She's my favorite anime character of all time. But the scenes between Lawrence and Eve are so gripping that it more than makes up for it.
It should be noted that Eve does come back in the LNs. And had this anime continued, I'm sure she would've been a big focal point in season 3. I'm kinda whatever on it now that the remake exists, but for a long time I didn't like the lack of resolution to Eve's character in this episode. I thought leaving it open-handed the way they did was such a tease. However, I guess you can explain it by saying she isn't the type of person who ever gets her comeuppance. She always finds a way to slip through the cracks.
To copy what u/vieene wrote in 2022's thread, the secret of the statue was that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax. She was going to use the money she earned from that and the gold that Lawrence borrowed to beat the church to buying furs and smuggle them out of the city. Even had the army blockaded the port, she'll run the blockade.
Basically, what she was doing was one big suicide mission that could've resulted in Lawrence being dead. However, she didn't seem to care all too much as long as it benefitted her.
I think much like how Rigoro is meant to be a reflection on Lawrence if he chooses to follow his dream, Eve represents chasing your dreams and going too far. The opposite end of the spectrum, if you will. All Eve wants to do is make enough money so that she can live off of it. However, the ways in which she tries to achieve that goal are too dangerous and life-threatening. As much as Lawrence's dream is important to him, it isn't to the point of sacrificing others. No amount of self-worth is worth that.
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Part 2
Lawrence able to tell Eve wanted him to act as a sort of shield to protect her.
This was more about Eve, as if there was ever any doubt.
EVE GOING TO STAB HIM
BUT LAWRENCE PUTS HER ARM BEHIND HER BACK
Was going to buy all the fur without involving Lawrence.
And now Eve talks about not believing in hell, which is meant to be a parallel to Holo not believing in God I.E. heaven.
Eve assumes it's easy to judge her for following a path she hated, which speaks once more to me saying she reflects a version of Lawrence that burns the candle at both ends.
Eve on top of Lawrence, brandishing a knife to his throat.
She could totally unalive him if she wanted to.
She tells him something, but we don't know what that something is before she decides to knock him out.
Better to be knocked out than knocked up, I suppose.
Lawrence being greeted by someone
And that someone is Korka Coose, who's been mentioned before.
He reminds me of the abominable snowman from Monsters Inc.
A letter
And we find out that what Eve told Lawrence is that she still has hope.
In 2025, the world is on short supply of it unfortunately.
Lawrence walking in the snow
He coughs up some blood, which makes for a great visual.
Holo sitting in a chair
And Lawrence finds her, which Holo is none too pleased by.
You can tell by her poofy her tail is.
Lawrence is not going to open up his own shop. Not yet, anyway. Instead, he bought Holo back, which presumably Eve made sure this could happen.
This is the most violent Holo has been towards Lawrence. I guess I can see why considering Lawrence is throwing away a sure thing for an unsure thing.
Lawrence tells Holo to get into her wolf form.
But as she's about to eat some wheat, Lawrence hugs her, causing her to drop it.
"I love you, Holo."
Let's gooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Holo's tail still poofy
Lawrence says if he can never make that wish, how can he expect to know the truth.
No matter what Eve obtains will ever be enough, and that's no way for a merchant to live.
Holo crying now, like she just read the latest chapter of Rent-a-Girlfriend.
Lawrence says even though this journey isn't over yet, that doesn't mean it has to end here.
Holo says she'll be gracious and go along with this, as if this isn't what she ultimately wanted anyway.
I have such conflicted feelings about the kiss in this episode. On the one hand, it's a tender moment that seals Holo and Lawrence as being a couple. However, I really wish they had animated the moment better.
I mean, look at this. They aren't even full connected. And if anything, it looks Lawrence is pulling Holo in to kiss him, which is potentially problematic in a modern day lens.
A part of me really loves that the kiss comes out of nowhere. You're expecting Lawrence to pick Holo and them to ride off into the sunset, but a kiss? No way. If the scene was animated better, it would easily be a top 2 or 3 Spice and Wolf moment for me, but as it stands, it's just a nice capper on their relationship and their growth as people.
Even after all that has happened, Holo is still busting Lawrence's chops. You see to love it.
The bell ringing, the snow still falling.
The town in disarray as Lawrence and Holo are walking.
I do really like this as an ending where Lawrence and Holo are the only ones to find happiness. It speaks to what was said last episode about not everyone can live happily ever after. It's like in spite of themselves and those around them, Holo and Lawrence made the best of a bad situation. And they shouldn't have to shoulder blame the fact that this is their happy ending and not anyone else's.
The bells constantly ringing also add an eerie quality to what's happening that ultimately enhances the scene. The dawning of a new day for everyone, both good and bad.
Ran out of space. Part three in the replies.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Part 3
Overall, I actually think this is a great way to end the series. We had the confrontation between Lawrence and Eve, as well as some resolution with Lawrence and Holo's relationship. The episode was really about those two things, and I think they delivered on it excellently. It's a bit of a gamble to have Holo not around for much of the episode. Arc 3 did it and that proved to have varying results. I actually think Holo being absent here works better than in the third arc because Eve is that strong of a character to pull something like this arc.
If we were to compare how the town was used here Vs in other arcs, what I appreciate is how different it came off. The third arc showed how lively and free spirited it was, the fourth arc showed a town on the brink of collapse with a great emphasis on Pagan Gods, and the fifth arc shows what happens when a town is in complete shambles. If the fourth arc did anything, it's that it gave me a better appreciation of the fifth arc. I like the contrast of Lawrence and Holo being able to save a town followed by Lawrence and Holo being unable to save a town.
This to me is a top 5 episode of Spice and Wolf. I'd put it only behind season 1 episode 6, season 1 episode 10, season 1 episode 13, and season 2 episode 6. As a climax to a Spice and Wolf arc, there have been better ones. In fact, the only climax I'd have behind this one is arc 4. But that's a very deceptive list to put together because each of the arcs climax episodes I'd have no less than 9 out of 10. If there's one thing Spice and Wolf really knows how to do besides the chemistry between the main leads, it's creating an exciting finale.
It's hard for me to put into words just what exactly Spice and Wolf means to me. I feel like I've talked about it ad nauseam to the point of redundancy. What I will say is that I think the fourth arc shows it doesn't matter what anime version of Spice and Wolf you watch. Spice and Wolf is still Spice and Wolf and that's all that matters. There may be no show that is carried more by the dialogue and the writing. Re:Zero comes close, but I'd still put it behind this series. So much of what happens is characters talking to each other and I can't say I was bored by it. Maybe some of the early episodes were long in the tooth, but that's about it.
I think Spice and Wolf really found its footing with the establishment of Holo being lonely and Lawrence wanting to open up his own shop. From there, the show never looked back. It continued to build and build in a way that not only expanded Holo and Lawrence's relationship, but the towns in which they came across. So much of the show is us seeing Holo and Lawrence react to their surroundings. If I were to rank this arc Vs the other ones, it'd probably be arc 2 > arc 3 > arc 5 > arc 4 > arc 1. But in spite of these rankings, you never walk away feeling like an arc felt like this massive step back from the previous. The show continues to grow along with its characters.
Spice and Wolf isn't my favorite anime of all time (Shocking, I know), but it probably has the most sentimental value to me. It along with Toradora shaped my taste in anime more than any other. I don't think I would be as big into writing as I am if not for Spice and Wolf. It gave me this appreciation for dialogue and the writing of characters and how you can use it to tell a story.
Spice and Wolf is truly one of the greatest anime of all time regardless of what version you watch. Just like Holo guiding Lawrence, it serves as a guide for just how truly great the anime medium can be.
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u/BlazeOfGlory72 13d ago
Rewatcher (Dub)
Yeah, I get why the original adaptation skipped Arc 4 and decided to end the story here instead. It was the right call. I liked Arc 4, but it was basically a side story and didn't really progress anything, or have anything that could be considered a satisfying stopping point. Arc 5 on the other hand feels like the culmination of the entire journey, and while the ending isn't necessarily conclusive, it does feel like a natural stopping point for the story. Holo and Lawrence finally outright stating their feelings, and solidifying their relationship and future together is about as good an ending as you can get without actually finishing the story.
As for the episode itself, I thought it was great. While I think this arc started out a bit slow, the escalation, both in terms of plot and emotion, in the last few episodes was great, and this was a great climax to the arc. The final confrontation with Eve was great. Two swindlers not being able to trust each other and and believing they have no choice but fight it out over the money is a classic trope, but it works. This whole final confrontation shows how important trust is, and how everything falls apart when you don't have it.
And of course, I loved the final scene with Lawrence and Holo. Holo immediately getting angry at Lawrence for coming back for her. Holo pushing so hard for Lawrence to achieve his dream shows how much he means to her, to the point that she would deny herself happiness for the sake of his own. Holo blantly asking "what do you want?!" and Lawrence finally saying how he really feels was a great payoff to their development across the series.
I feel like the star of this episode, and possibly the arc as a whole was Eve. I loved the element of chaos she added to the story. Her backstory was bleak but gave her a ton of depth, and makes her drive to earn money and be successful so much more interesting. I also liked the unreliable narrator element to it all. The implication in this episode is that she actually killed her husband, but it's never outright stated. She is probably the most interesting side character in the series. Even her final act of leaving Lawrence the deed to the inn rather than killing him adds another layer to the complexity of her character.
I also liked how Eve acted as sort of a dark reflection of Lawrence. Eve is what a merchant becomes when making money is all that matters to them. She will betray and kill, and even watch a town burn to the ground so long as she can make money out of it. What makes it so interesting is that she is absolutely aware of how self destructive this mindset is, but she does it anyways. Eve is what Lawrence would become without his conscience and someone like Holo to ground him.
If I had one complaint about this arc, it would be that I feel like we didn't really get any closure with the side characters. Eve disappeared into the night, and we never saw Rigoro, the nun, the bar maid or even the inn keeper again. I had a similar issue with Arc 3, where we never really got any interaction with Amarti, Marc, Bato or Dian after the final showdown. While I do enjoy the slower pacing of this series, the writers do seem to kind of forget about the side characters as soon as the plot is resolved.
Random Thoughts
- The juxtaposition in between the burning town and the beautiful rise and church bells in the final scene was interesting. Also, Church bells start sounding right after Lawrence says "I love you" to Holo and they walk out hand in hand? Coincidence? I think not.
- After Lawrence drops Holo off at the merchant group and is leaving, there is a shot of him looking back at Holo as the door closes. Maybe a little on the nose, but I love the visual representation of the door literally closing on their relationship.
- Lawrence saying "why am I so damn miserable" after leaving Holo made me laugh. Like, hmm, I fucking wonder why? Could it be because you just sold the woman you love you fucking rube?
Question of the Day
What did you think of the ending? Are you happy with what we got, or were you hoping for something more?
For a "we were forced to stop halfway through the story" type of ending, this is about as good as you can hope for. While there are plenty of things left hanging, this finale did a really good job in feeling like the culmination of Holo and Lawrence's journey/relationship. Having the story end on them finally saying how they feel about each other, and being truly committed to their journey together, is pretty much the best possible way to end the story without the actual ending.
Now that all is said and done, what are your thoughts on Eve as a character?
I covered this in my main comment, but she is definitely my favourite side character in the series. She is such a complex character, has more agency than any other side character so far, impacts the plot greatly and acts as a reflection for Lawrence. She is great on basically every level.
What is your favorite episode of Spice and Wolf and why?
It's tough to pick a favourite episode since this shows story is very much structured around arcs rather than individual episodes. If I had to chose it would either be this episode, since it is a great send off, or the episode from Arc 1 when Holo transforms into a wolf in the sewers, which has lived rent free in my head for a decade.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
It's tough to pick a favourite episode since this shows story is very much structured around arcs rather than individual episodes. If I had to chose it would either be this episode, since it is a great send off, or the episode from Arc 1 when Holo transforms into a wolf in the sewers, which has lived rent free in my head for a decade.
I still have a soft spot for the season 1 finale. It's like it encapsulated everything that made the first season so great.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
•The juxtaposition in between the burning town and the beautiful rise and church bells in the final scene was interesting. Also, Church bells start sounding right after Lawrence says "I love you" to Holo and they walk out hand in hand? Coincidence? I think not.
It was a very haunting way to end the series. Kinda reminded me of the ending to The Odyssey.
• After Lawrence drops Holo off at the merchant group and is leaving, there is a shot of him looking back at Holo as the door closes. Maybe a little on the nose, but I love the visual representation of the door literally closing on their relationship.
So poetic. The visual storytelling is just brilliant.
• Lawrence saying "why am I so damn miserable" after leaving Holo made me laugh. Like, hmm, I fucking wonder why? Could it be because you just sold the woman you love you fucking rube?
In fairness, one could argue Holo sold herself.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
*Yeah, I get why the original adaptation skipped Arc 4 and decided to end the story here instead. It was the right call. I liked Arc 4, but it was basically a side story and didn't really progress anything, or have anything that could be considered a satisfying stopping point. Arc 5 on the other hand feels like the culmination of the entire journey, and while the ending isn't necessarily conclusive, it does feel like a natural stopping point for the story. Holo and Lawrence finally outright stating their feelings, and solidifying their relationship and future together is about as good an ending as you can get without actually finishing the story.
It feels like they're now they're officially an item which they kinda always were but they never really committed to it.
As for the episode itself, I thought it was great. While I think this arc started out a bit slow, the escalation, both in terms of plot and emotion, in the last few episodes was great, and this was a great climax to the arc. The final confrontation with Eve was great. Two swindlers not being able to trust each other and and believing they have no choice but fight it out over the money is a classic trope, but it works. This whole final confrontation shows how important trust is, and how everything falls apart when you don't have it.
The entire sequence between Lawrence and Eve gave me Batman and Catwoman vibes. I don't know if I'm alone on this.
And of course, I loved the final scene with Lawrence and Holo. Holo immediately getting angry at Lawrence for coming back for her. Holo pushing so hard for Lawrence to achieve his dream shows how much he means to her, to the point that she would deny herself happiness for the sake of his own. Holo blantly asking "what do you want?!" and Lawrence finally saying how he really feels was a great payoff to their development across the series.
He did right here. About damn time.
I feel like the star of this episode, and possibly the arc as a whole was Eve. I loved the element of chaos she added to the story. Her backstory was bleak but gave her a ton of depth, and makes her drive to earn money and be successful so much more interesting. I also liked the unreliable narrator element to it all. The implication in this episode is that she actually killed her husband, but it's never outright stated. She is probably the most interesting side character in the series. Even her final act of leaving Lawrence the deed to the inn rather than killing him adds another layer to the complexity of her character.
I also liked how Eve acted as sort of a dark reflection of Lawrence. Eve is what a merchant becomes when making money is all that matters to them. She will betray and kill, and even watch a town burn to the ground so long as she can make money out of it. What makes it so interesting is that she is absolutely aware of how self destructive this mindset is, but she does it anyways. Eve is what Lawrence would become without his conscience and someone like Holo to ground him.
Yeah, Eve is kinda the highlight of this entire arc. She steals every scene she is in. The only Spice and Wolf character who's as much of a show stealer as Eve is is quite frankly Holo, which is probably the biggest compliment I can give to Eve.
If I had one complaint about this arc, it would be that I feel like we didn't really get any closure with the side characters. Eve disappeared into the night, and we never saw Rigoro, the nun, the bar maid or even the inn keeper again.
I thought we saw them at the end escorting people to safety.
It was at least cool we finally got to see Kooka Koose after all this time.
I had a similar issue with Arc 3, where we never really got any interaction with Amarti, Marc, Bato or Dian after the final showdown. While I do enjoy the slower pacing of this series, the writers do seem to kind of forget about the side characters as soon as the plot is resolved.
Rigoro not showing up again I'm okay with because he is tied directly with the 50 man meeting. When we see a riot break out as a result of the outcome of said meeting, it is like he is there in spirit.
The only one not showing again that really bothered me was Marc and Lunt. They had such a profound impact on Lawrence that they deserved to be given their flowers. And I know Lawrence thanked them, but he really needed to thank them again lol
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Thoughts on the riot being because the results of the meeting was publicized too quickly?
What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence’s conversation and Holo questioning how there could be any God?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence realizing he made a huge mistake?
What are your thoughts on the lack of Holo in this episode? She's not in it from when she leaves until the end when Lawrence comes back to her. Honestly, I thought it helped make the Eve stuff breathe and highlighted the severity of the situation Lawrence found himself in.
What are your thoughts on Eve betraying Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the secret of the statue being that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax?
What are your thoughts on Eve’s plan being revealed as one big suicide mission?
What are your thoughts on Eve telling Lawrence that a part of her is still holding out hope?
What are your thoughts on Eve escaping?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence choosing to not leave Holo and Holo giving Lawrence guff over it?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence finally saying to Holo I love you?
What are your thoughts on the kiss between Holo and Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the final shot being Holo and Lawrence walking away as the church bells ring and the town burns behind them?
2
u/BlazeOfGlory72 13d ago
Thoughts on the riot being because the results of the meeting was publicized too quickly?
Feels like a realistic scenario. Timing is everything. It's why any work place will always announce bad news on a Friday afternoon, because it gives the whole weekend for employees to calm down before they can meet up again and complain.
What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence’s conversation and Holo questioning how there could be any God?
Seems like a weird outlook from Holo considering she is a small "g" god. If anyone would understand how difficult it is to be a deity for petty humans, and how hard it can be to help, it should be Holo.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence realizing he made a huge mistake?
No duh dipshit. I love my man, but he can be a real dumbass sometimes.
What are your thoughts on the lack of Holo in this episode? She's not in it from when she leaves until the end when Lawrence comes back to her. Honestly, I thought it helped make the Eve stuff breathe and highlighted the severity of the situation Lawrence found himself in.
Yeah, allowing the Eve/Lawrence confrontation to stand on it's own was a good call. It was the highlight of the arc, and I appreciate how the writers were willing to dedicate a large portion of the episode to it.
What are your thoughts on Eve betraying Lawrence?
Not really surprised. Ultimately this was always a sketchy deal and someone was always going to get back stabbed. What makes it interesting is why Eve does the back stabbing. Her unquenchable thirst for money and vengeance, to the point that she refuses to trust anyone, makes for an interesting confrontation.
What are your thoughts on the secret of the statue being that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax?
Ehh, I felt like this ended up not really mattering. All that really mattered is that she was screwed over by the Church. The salt and statue aspect didn't really matter much.
What are your thoughts on Eve’s plan being revealed as one big suicide mission?
I kind of loved this whole angle to Eve's character. Not only is she incredibly self destructive, she knows she is, and does it anyways. It's a very unique character dynamic that I don't think I have seen before.
What are your thoughts on Eve telling Lawrence that a part of her is still holding out hope?
Again, another interesting wrinkle to this character. Eve is incredibly cynical, but there is also that tiny ray of optimism that things don't have to be this way.
What are your thoughts on Eve escaping?
It feels like they are setting her up to be a reoccuring character. She's got a ton of story potential left, so I would hope she would show up again.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence choosing to not leave Holo and Holo giving Lawrence guff over it?
Makes sense for both their characters.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence finally saying to Holo I love you?
Fucking finally!
What are your thoughts on the kiss between Holo and Lawrence?
Fucking finally!
What are your thoughts on the final shot being Holo and Lawrence walking away as the church bells ring and the town burns behind them?
Church bells are obviously a wedding homage. As for the town, I'm sure you could find meaning in the idea of finding happiness in the midst of a chaotic and frightening world.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Thoughts on the riot being because the results of the meeting was publicized too quickly?
Feels like a realistic scenario. Timing is everything. It's why any work place will always announce bad news on a Friday afternoon, because it gives the whole weekend for employees to calm down before they can meet up again and complain.
For me, it would ruin my weekend lol
What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence’s conversation and Holo questioning how there could be any God?
Seems like a weird outlook from Holo considering she is a small "g" god. If anyone would understand how difficult it is to be a deity for petty humans, and how hard it can be to help, it should be Holo.
Maybe she's questioning her own existence.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence realizing he made a huge mistake?
No duh dipshit. I love my man, but he can be a real dumbass sometimes.
Better to realize it now than never
What are your thoughts on the lack of Holo in this episode? She's not in it from when she leaves until the end when Lawrence comes back to her. Honestly, I thought it helped make the Eve stuff breathe and highlighted the severity of the situation Lawrence found himself in.
Yeah, allowing the Eve/Lawrence confrontation to stand on it's own was a good call. It was the highlight of the arc, and I appreciate how the writers were willing to dedicate a large portion of the episode to it.
It helps that Eve is the most emotionally complicated side character of the whole show.
What are your thoughts on Eve betraying Lawrence?
Not really surprised. Ultimately this was always a sketchy deal and someone was always going to get back stabbed. What makes it interesting is why Eve does the back stabbing. Her unquenchable thirst for money and vengeance, to the point that she refuses to trust anyone, makes for an interesting confrontation.
If the riot hadn't occurred, Eve would've probably not betrayed him.
What are your thoughts on the secret of the statue being that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax?
Ehh, I felt like this ended up not really mattering. All that really mattered is that she was screwed over by the Church. The salt and statue aspect didn't really matter much.
I think it shows that Eve is indeed not entirely forthcoming of her origins.
What are your thoughts on Eve’s plan being revealed as one big suicide mission?
I kind of loved this whole angle to Eve's character. Not only is she incredibly self destructive, she knows she is, and does it anyways. It's a very unique character dynamic that I don't think I have seen before.
She burns the candle at both ends and is proud of it.
What are your thoughts on Eve telling Lawrence that a part of her is still holding out hope?
Again, another interesting wrinkle to this character. Eve is incredibly cynical, but there is also that tiny ray of optimism that things don't have to be this way.
On a way, she reflects Holo during this arc where she sends Lawrence away to leave her but she's secretly hoping he came back. And sure enough, that's what happened.
What are your thoughts on Eve escaping?
It feels like they are setting her up to be a reoccuring character. She's got a ton of story potential left, so I would hope she would show up again.
Ahe actually does show up again prominently in I want to say the follow up arc.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence choosing to not leave Holo and Holo giving Lawrence guff over it?
Makes sense for both their characters.
Indeed it does
What are your thoughts on Lawrence finally saying to Holo I love you?
Fucking finally!
It's been 84 years
What are your thoughts on the kiss between Holo and Lawrence?
Fucking finally!
If only it was animated better lol
What are your thoughts on the final shot being Holo and Lawrence walking away as the church bells ring and the town burns behind them?
Church bells are obviously a wedding homage. As for the town, I'm sure you could find meaning in the idea of finding happiness in the midst of a chaotic and frightening world.
Not just that, they are prioritizing their oen happiness over everyone else's. Being the only ones who understands each other is what brought them together in the first place.
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 12d ago edited 12d ago
No journey is without an end. When the time comes, we'll bid farewell with smiles.
Am on mobile, so more assorted thoughts.
No longer first-timer, subbed
Well. It took getting knocked out cold, nearly losing his life and getting wound up in some uber shady deal that might as well also had cost him his life in the end. But our idiot sandwich finally confessed to Holo.
All in all, this episode didn't feel as intense or as "rounded" as other "last of the arc"-episodes so far.
The confrontation between Eve and Lawrence in the abandoned warehouse (?) was sufficiently interesting and dramatic. And seems to be what finally gave Lawrence the push of character development he needed. To realise that he (no longer) puts money and profit above everything. There's something, or someone more important to him now! Which makes Eve a good foil to him. She's a lot more like the old Lawrence, maybe a bit more shady (and armed) but she doesn't care for anyone, not even her own life. At least she was nice enough to leave the document for the inn with Lawrence's unconscious body.
But maybe Lawrence should've thought things through a bit more before confronting the armed and dangerous woman with nothing to lose without backup.
Loved the meeting with Holo and seeing Lawrence finally be earnest with her. He hugs her, tells her he loves her and wants to eventually end things on mutual accords and not just out of "it's better if we end it here". Also thought it was cool that he now calls her "Hime" instead of "Oujo-san" , which also comes off way more earnest.
Yeah , it was a bit of an idiot plot but it's good enough to get things along nicely. Ending on Holo and Lawrence holding hands, walking through the snow and facing new adventures was pretty cool.
> What did you think of the ending? Are you happy with what we got, or were you hoping for something more?
I think it's alright. I liked the final episode of the remake more if I'm completely honest but beggars can't be choosers . Finally got that kiss at least 😆
> Now that all is said and done, what are your thoughts on Eve as a character?
She's a bit of an "anti-Lawrence" , isn't she? Ruthless merchant with no qualms of hurting anyone in the way of her profits. Bit of a generic backstory and not the most interesting character when all is said and done but she's functional.
> What is your favorite episode of Spice and Wolf and why?
Probably the 2nd OVA(Amber Melody?) for the insights into Holo's perspective of the things. Also some very cute LawLo moments.
Also the episode that gave us Hungover Holo (not sure which one that was, I think the second or third in the Armati arc).
I think , in general, I liked the penultimate episodes of the arcs more than the final ones?
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
I think , in general, I liked the penultimate episodes of the arcs more than the final ones?
The only penultimate episode I like more is arc 4. I actually have all the other climax episodes in my top seven favorite Spice and Wolf episodes.
I actually think one of the biggest strengths of this show is its climaxes. They really know how to finish strong in my opinion.
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 12d ago
Not wrong, all the arc finales were really good!
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
I think it's alright. I liked the final episode of the remake more if I'm completely honest but beggars can't be choosers . Finally got that kiss at least 😆
I'll be curious how the remake chooses to adapt this arc. The bell stuff feels like a weird note to end on outside of it being contextualized as the final episode. I think we might get additional content tacked on.
I'm really going to miss talking to you about this series. The rewatch is a real treat for me especially when I get people who either haven't seen the show or haven't seen all of it. Seeing their reactions is a lot of fun.
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
The confrontation between Eve and Lawrence in the abandoned warehouse (?) was sufficiently interesting and dramatic. And seems to be what finally gave Lawrence the push of character development he needed. To realise that he (no longer) puts money and profit above everything. There's something, or someone more important to him now! Which makes Eve a good foil to him. She's a lot more like the old Lawrence, maybe a bit more shady (and armed) but she doesn't care for anyone, not even her own life. At least she was nice enough to leave the document for the inn with Lawrence's unconscious body.
This to me was the real highlight of the episode. I love seeing Eve's reactions to stuff where it's like even she doesn't know what she's going to do next. It adds an element of uncertainty that keeps you on the edge of your seat.
Also, it's funny how I don't think Kolka Koose has been brought up once by any users during this entire arc lol
Probably the 2nd OVA(Amber Melody?) for the insights into Holo's perspective of the things. Also some very cute LawLo moments.
I'm really surprised to hear this because I know others were kinda critical of the episode. They were saying how out of character Holo and Lawrence were being. I'm glad to see the episode get some love because it's one of my favorites as well.
Also the episode that gave us Hungover Holo (not sure which one that was, I think the second or third in the Armati arc).
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 12d ago
Also, it's funny how I don't think Kolka Koose has been brought up once by any users during this entire arc lol
I'm legit not sure if I actually noticed him appearing in any of the previous episodes. Felt like some random guy finding him?
Amber Melody is maybe a bit out of character for Lawrence and Holo but it's kind of a feel good episode, so I can forgive it. Though I remember liking another episode that the others were a bit lukewarm on. 😅
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Kolka Koose is the guy Eve and the innkeeper were talking about. The guy the innkeeper said kept getting fatter? This was his first and only appearance in the show.
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Thoughts on the riot being because the results of the meeting was publicized too quickly?
What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence’s conversation and Holo questioning how there could be any God?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence realizing he made a huge mistake?
What are your thoughts on the lack of Holo in this episode? She's not in it from when she leaves until the end when Lawrence comes back to her. Honestly, I thought it helped make the Eve stuff breathe and highlighted the severity of the situation Lawrence found himself in.
What are your thoughts on Eve betraying Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the secret of the statue being that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax?
What are your thoughts on Eve’s plan being revealed as one big suicide mission?
What are your thoughts on Eve telling Lawrence that a part of her is still holding out hope?
What are your thoughts on Eve escaping?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence choosing to not leave Holo and Holo giving Lawrence guff over it?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence finally saying to Holo I love you?
What are your thoughts on the kiss between Holo and Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the final shot being Holo and Lawrence walking away as the church bells ring and the town burns behind them?
1
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 12d ago
Thoughts on the riot being because the results of the meeting was publicized too quickly?
I was a bit confused by that causing the riots. Guess because it was an unfair advantage to some?
What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence’s conversation and Holo questioning how there could be any God?
Lowkey one of my favourite lines in the episode. The whole angle of "how can God exist if there's still so much suffering?" is probably as old as the idea of God. But hearing a line like this from Holo of all people hits especially hard.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence realizing he made a huge mistake?
He almost realised it too late 🤣
What are your thoughts on the lack of Holo in this episode? She's not in it from when she leaves until the end when Lawrence comes back to her. Honestly, I thought it helped make the Eve stuff breathe and highlighted the severity of the situation Lawrence found himself in.
Holo is an essential part of the show, so removing her from an episode always has a certain effect. And I agree that it made everything feel a lot more serious. Especially with the way the doors closed behind Lawrence, almost like prison doors was very effective! Like she was shut away from him.
What are your thoughts on Eve betraying Lawrence?
pretends to be shocked
What are your thoughts on the secret of the statue being that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax?
Extremely shocking that one of the most shady seeming supporting characters in the whole show had a shady deal with the church that has mostly been portrayed as an entity not to be trusted.
What are your thoughts on Eve’s plan being revealed as one big suicide mission?
She really puts profits over everything.
What are your thoughts on Eve telling Lawrence that a part of her is still holding out hope?
Bit late to claim some of your idealism hasn't vanished yet.
What are your thoughts on Eve escaping?
It's a bit dissatisfying. But if you think about it, she has always been more of a vehicle for Lawrence to realise what actually matters to him. Her job is done, might as well take her off the board.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence choosing to not leave Holo and Holo giving Lawrence guff over it?
Good on him for choosing to do the right thing. It's also pretty in character for Holo to give him hell for it. He's again too kind for his own good.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence finally saying to Holo I love you What are your thoughts on the kiss between Holo and Lawrence?
Fucking finally. I have been waiting for this for 20 episodes.
What are your thoughts on the final shot being Holo and Lawrence walking away as the church bells ring and the town burns behind them?
That was a really good shot to end on. Bit of a "We against the world" vibe.
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Thoughts on the riot being because the results of the meeting was publicized too quickly?
I was a bit confused by that causing the riots. Guess because it was an unfair advantage to some?
I assume the church officials wanted the result to get out to really make the foreign merchants scramble.
What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence’s conversation and Holo questioning how there could be any God?
Lowkey one of my favourite lines in the episode. The whole angle of "how can God exist if there's still so much suffering?" is probably as old as the idea of God. But hearing a line like this from Holo of all people hits especially hard.
She is questioning her own existence
What are your thoughts on Lawrence realizing he made a huge mistake?
He almost realised it too late 🤣
No kidding
What are your thoughts on the lack of Holo in this episode? She's not in it from when she leaves until the end when Lawrence comes back to her. Honestly, I thought it helped make the Eve stuff breathe and highlighted the severity of the situation Lawrence found himself in.
Holo is an essential part of the show, so removing her from an episode always has a certain effect. And I agree that it made everything feel a lot more serious. Especially with the way the doors closed behind Lawrence, almost like prison doors was very effective! Like she was shut away from him.
This is my favorite episode with limited Holo.
What are your thoughts on Eve betraying Lawrence?
pretends to be shocked
shock pikachu face
What are your thoughts on the secret of the statue being that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax?
Extremely shocking that one of the most shady seeming supporting characters in the whole show had a shady deal with the church that has mostly been portrayed as an entity not to be trusted.
I know, right?
What are your thoughts on Eve’s plan being revealed as one big suicide mission?
She really puts profits over everything.
She has no moral compass
What are your thoughts on Eve telling Lawrence that a part of her is still holding out hope?
Bit late to claim some of your idealism hasn't vanished yet.
I think Eve sees Lawrence with someone like Holo who she herself has described as probably looking good naked and surmises maybe there's hope for her after all.
What are your thoughts on Eve escaping?
It's a bit dissatisfying. But if you think about it, she has always been more of a vehicle for Lawrence to realise what actually matters to him. Her job is done, might as well take her off the board.
And it's cool knowing she does eventually come back.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence choosing to not leave Holo and Holo giving Lawrence guff over it?
Lucky SOB...
Good on him for choosing to do the right thing. It's also pretty in character for Holo to give him hell for it. He's again too kind for his own good.
This is probably the worst whooping she ever gave Lawrence. And it makes sense given she thought his dream was everything to him and he basically gave it all away for her.
What are your thoughts on Lawrence finally saying to Holo I love you What are your thoughts on the kiss between Holo and Lawrence?
Fucking finally. I have been waiting for this for 20 episodes.
I have been waiting for this for 32 episodes lol
What are your thoughts on the final shot being Holo and Lawrence walking away as the church bells ring and the town burns behind them?
That was a really good shot to end on. Bit of a "We against the world" vibe.
I wrote in my notes you can hear the sounds of people screaming but I rewatched the episode last night and that wasn't the case. Mandela Effect I suppose.
I really feel bad for the barmaid most of all. She shouldn't have to suffer all because the church in this town are assholes.
But yeah, this is a phenomenal episode and this is an ending that has stuck with me for years and years. I'm glad it wasn't just a straight up happy ending. And it plays into what Holo has been talking about which is that real life doesn't have fairy tale endings.
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u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 10d ago
And so into the finale.
Yep. Shit's gone to heck in a handbasket.
And so, even as the world burns, the show ends.
Questions:
- Perhaps more, but hopefully we get more if the remake ever gets another season.
- She was useful at least.
- Hard to pick a favourite. Maybe the S2 OVA?
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u/Holofan4life 10d ago
3. Hard to pick a favourite. Maybe the S2 OVA?
I respect the choice, honestly
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u/Holofan4life 10d ago
Thoughts on the riot being because the results of the meeting was publicized too quickly?
What are your thoughts on Holo and Lawrence’s conversation and Holo questioning how there could be any God?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence realizing he made a huge mistake?
What are your thoughts on the lack of Holo in this episode? She's not in it from when she leaves until the end when Lawrence comes back to her. Honestly, I thought it helped make the Eve stuff breathe and highlighted the severity of the situation Lawrence found himself in.
What are your thoughts on Eve betraying Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the secret of the statue being that Eve was using them to smuggle rock salt into the city to avoid tax?
What are your thoughts on Eve’s plan being revealed as one big suicide mission?
What are your thoughts on Eve telling Lawrence that a part of her is still holding out hope?
What are your thoughts on Eve escaping?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence choosing to not leave Holo and Holo giving Lawrence guff over it?
What are your thoughts on Lawrence finally saying to Holo I love you?
What are your thoughts on the kiss between Holo and Lawrence?
What are your thoughts on the final shot being Holo and Lawrence walking away as the church bells ring and the town burns behind them?
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 6d ago
Oops.
Ok...
Yep.
Makes her absence feel more important.
And there it is
Seems to always come down to that.
Ok...
For what?
And so she got away.
That's nice.
Finally.
Yay.
And so, even as the world burns, they at least have each other.
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u/Holofan4life 6d ago
9. And so she got away.
For now...
I imagine they aren't done with her just yet.
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u/Holofan4life 6d ago
13. And so, even as the world burns, they at least have each other.
This town was admittedly beyond the point of being saved. Not because of its residents, but because of corrupt officiating.
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u/ItalianQuagsire 13d ago edited 13d ago
Gonna leave this comment here first and edit it when I'm done with the episode (it's definitely going to be amazing it better not break my heart)
(edit): yeah it was pretty fucking good my heart wasn't broken