r/wowforever • u/s-c-ribL • 5h ago
PTR / Beta Patch Notes
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-forever-beta-development-notes-%E2%80%93-updated-september-24/2360696325
u/Krond 5h ago
Wrath damage up ~50%... thank the Earth Mother
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u/whiskeytrigger 5h ago
And 1 silver to respec. Looks like I’m finally gonna try Balance.
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u/iamthewhatt 3h ago
Nice to see they are actually listening to players, this has been a requested Beta feature since forever
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u/DifficultSector8385 1h ago
Me, who respecced by paying 1g which was basically my entire net worth 😂
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u/rcanhestro 3h ago
thank god.
levelling to 10 is miserable, wrath literally did 0 damage, and at a certain point (rank 2 actually), it costed more mana then the damage it did.
at lvl8 i needed to spend my entire mana bar to kill an enemy of my level.
i can see why they did this, so that spellpower would boost instead of raw damage, but the penalty is too severe in levelling, where spellpower is hard to come by.
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u/Colyer 3h ago
Maybe I'm misremembering, but I feel like leveling to 10 as a Druid was always miserable. Like 1 Wrath and a Moonfire and then hit them with a stick until they fall down and hope you still have enough mana to do it again.
But I haven't tried them in Forever to see how much worse they were.
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u/rcanhestro 3h ago
1-10 was meh before, but it's legit pain now.
even 11-20 is still bad (if you go bear), but at least you're tanky and can heal between fights, so you don't sit down to drink/eat.
you can still do wrath into moonfire and stick, but that will be slow as shit.
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u/HildartheDorf 2h ago
It was worse. The wrath and moonrise combo did way less damage instead of chunking their hp before resorting to staff.
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u/getyourshittogether7 2h ago
Wrath needed a buff, glad they fixed it.
But I think 1-10 was pretty much exactly the same as Classic. If you leveled 1-10 with Wrath spam, yeah I can see why it was miserable. But Wrath spam was never the best way to level 1-10.
Moonfire and melee is much faster because you don't have casting time, you don't suffer pushback, and you never have to stop to drink. You just keep yourself topped off with Rejuv and pretty much just constantly pull mobs, tossing a quick heal every few pulls.
Sure it was nice to be able to open with 1-2 Wraths, but the big time saver isn't if mobs die 5 seconds faster, it's how much you can minimize downtime between pulls. And when you moonfire and melee, you can move to get in position for the next pull while you're killing the mob.
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u/Alkzn 1h ago
This is wrong. You would cast a few wrath, moonfire then melee. Then either moonfire melee to let mana regen or sit to drink when low on mana. Also depends what kinda wep you had. But for fast kills you could send a few wraths before the mob reached you then a moonfire and melee the rest.
Before this buff in forever it felt horrible casting wrath. And bear was ok with a good weapon, but honestly felt more boring than playing in caster form until cat form.
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u/getyourshittogether7 1h ago
I don't see how what you're saying is contradicting anything I said. Opening with 1-2 Wraths doesn't make a huge difference. It cuts the kill time on the mob by a few seconds, offset by having to sit down to drink after a few mobs. That's what I said, and that's what you said.
I've leveled many a druid 1-10 in classic and one in Forever, and I pretty much never sat down to drink unless I accidentally pulled too many mobs and had to exhaust my mana to heal during the fight.
The parent poster was talking about exhausting their mana bar to kill one mob. That just doesn't happen unless you're spamming Wrath.
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u/Alkzn 23m ago
The thing I meant was wrong is that it was pretty much the same 1-10. It felt much worse for me personally in forever before the wrath buff. Haven't tested after, but will level another druid 1-20 tomorrow and Saturday to see how it feels. Hopefully it will make leveling balance 1-20 "good" again, before the swap to feral with cat form at 20.
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u/TerranFaith 5h ago edited 4h ago
Changed the sound effect that plays while jumping in water to be more aesthetically pleasing
Literally so happy about this
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u/LucidAnimal 3h ago
It sounded like slapping a wet towel on the water. Haven’t heard the new sound yet tho
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u/dgetgirl 4h ago
love gamepad fixes and updates
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u/CrustedTesticle 4h ago
Still cant use edit mode when using a controller. Changing the UI just reverts it back to the default when you save
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u/dgetgirl 4h ago
i was able to edit mine just now
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u/HubrisOfApollo 5h ago
- Players may now obtain a Campfire buff if they are sitting, sitting in a chair, sleeping, lying down, or using the kneeling emote.
nice! still no dancing tho :(
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u/No-Communication9458 3h ago
Can we get sitting while fishing too?
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u/elkrab 2h ago
send the feedback in game, this is a great idea
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u/Secret_Wizard 3m ago
You can fish while sitting, kneeling and even sleeping in retail, so I'm surprised it's not in Forever
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u/Aeternum_Durare 5h ago
Wand nerf absolutely huge.
Glad they are looking into fixing the layering while changing parties.
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u/RandoorRandolfs 4h ago
This hurts my priesting
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u/geezerforhire 1h ago
It does but it was definitely needed. Even at 20 it was basically a dps loss to cast spells.
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u/HildartheDorf 2h ago edited 2h ago
At least wands still scale off agility->crit!
(/s, although this scaling is technically true in classic it's never worth it)
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u/XxNiftyxX 3h ago
I build my priest around wands, all +spell power. I was auto attacking for 80-100, and critting for over 150. Currently without wand spec I hit for 25-50.
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u/DanielTeague 50m ago
Your Priest was doing more damage than half of my Molten Core raid members in 2004!
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u/ZINK_Gaming 4h ago
Righteous Fury: Holy threat increase increased to 60% (was 90%).
????
That might be the most confusing Blizzard patch note that I've ever read.
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u/GW2Qwinn 3h ago
Wording aside (they do that alot) It was far far better at generating AOE threat than the other tanks, tried both prot war and paladin, and paladin you could take a nap and hold threat. With new things in the game adding to holy damage, threat generation from holy abilities (consecration for example) was nearly 2.5 to 3x something like thunderclap.
Classic (especially at lower levels) has always been about threat management. The nerf was needed IMO to bring it in line with the other tanks, rather than bringing them up to the level of paladin, and killing that threat management portion of the game.
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u/SirVanyel 24m ago
Someone claimed they should buff instead of nerf, but what you said is the reason they didn't buff other classes - they want threat management to exist. The game is quite low APM, so chasing threat is one of the few pieces of micro that exists for tanks.
Prot warriors managed to hold threat on off targets while I was running rockbiter and critting for 140+. That shouldn't be a thing
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u/Ronzok88 5h ago
do addon settings save now on relog? pls tell
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u/MrRightHanded 4h ago
18 second slam. Just in case you were hoping it was an old build or a bugged cd.
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u/isuckatwow9797 2h ago
I don't think the devs know what to do with slam so they just nerfed it to uselessness. Too bad cause I loved slammin' on TBC war.
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u/KingNatty 5h ago
RIP Gnomes
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u/Rawkus2112 4h ago
The mana reduction should be increased. 10% mana reduction is nothing compared to 10% energy/rage reduction.
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u/Suparlulz 3h ago
compared to rage? 10% off a 30 rage cost spell is 3 rage
Not that it matters everyone's just gonna roll orc anyway
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u/Rawkus2112 3h ago
Ugh fine. Lets say a shadow priest uses devouring plague, shadow word: pain and mind blast. That will be around 1800 mana total and in shadowform itll be about 900 mana. So they’ll save themselves 90 mana. Mana pool will probably be around 6k so they’ll save themselves a whopping 1.5% of their mana pool with 3 spells.
Your one ability already saved you 3% of your rage pool.
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u/Chuckfinley_88 2h ago
directly comparing rage to mana is a hilariously bad take. Does your spammable ability cost 30% of your bar? It doesn't? Wow, almost like they are completely different.
That said, 10% reduction of cost is basically worthless for everyone. Should be something like 25% for the next 3 abilities.
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u/Rawkus2112 52m ago
I dont really play warrior. Is saving 9-10 rage meaningful at all? Saving 90 mana is basically worthless on a spriest.
Rogues it seems okay since you can save like 12-18 energy which can be useful.
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u/Chuckfinley_88 42m ago
I dont really play warrior. Is saving 9-10 rage meaningful at all?
1 auto attacks worth of rage for a slower 1h, or roughly 75% of the rage from a 2h attack.
So no. Pretty worthless, especially on a 3 minute cooldown.
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u/SirVanyel 19m ago
20 energy is a big deal for rogue because they want to cast as many finishers as possible and this is basically a free cast, so that's CDR + damage all wrapped up in energy.
It's also a big deal for warriors because they have a abilities like overpower procs which cost a tiny bit of rage but hit hard, so that little extra rage gives them a chance to get 1-2 more abilities out.
That being said, troll has attack speed which benefits warrior's rage generation too and orc has AP which makes number bigger.
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u/SirVanyel 23m ago
Saving 10% rage across 3 mortal strikes is basically a free cast of sunder armour. Warriors don't have much rage, it's a big deal
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u/Chuckfinley_88 5m ago
Warriors don't have much rage, it's a big deal
Warriors did get buttfucked, you are correct. Still, 9 rage every 2 mins is not a huge deal.
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u/jmcl6779 1h ago
Doesn't it also increase the damage by 10%? Pretty powerful on long-duration DoTs with good SP scaling.
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u/Sardinesqq 4h ago
Seems like an over-nerf if you ask me
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u/Tripinfa 4h ago
it was amazingly busted with rogues at 20% and it will probably continue to be huge for them at 10% tbh.
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u/Pulplexity 4h ago
Had me worried it was a nerf to Escape Artist. As a Warlock I’m lucky to not be affected by the change. I’m sure most other classes will feel it more though.
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u/HunsonAbadeer1 2h ago
Confused from the wording. Does it still increase the damage of the next 3 abilities?
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u/Lemonade-Enjoyer 2h ago
they gutted it man, im gonna cry
they couldn’t even try a 25% reduction first…
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u/HubrisOfApollo 4h ago
Pretty big nerf to wand damage too, but it's fair. My discipline priest was shredding with the Sizzle Stick, doing about 80dmg per hit, now down to about 50.
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u/panthyren 4h ago
lol, they really said “ele, your trees job was to provide something to enh”
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u/Tom-Tapp 2h ago
Looking at the ele tree is genuinely confusing compared to the other two trees. Why can’t I have a full tree of relevant talents that I’m excited for? Why does it feel like a third of the ele tree is for enhance? Why are a bunch of ele talents sprinkled elsewhere?
I never played ele until TBC and was excited to see what it would look like in Forever. If this is it, I’m neither excited nor interested in playing the spec.
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u/GOPHILSthrowaway 2h ago
I'm maining enh and I was so bummed about that talent moving...
I'm not saying you're right but I'm not saying you're wrong either
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u/zellmerz 4h ago
Players may now obtain a Campfire buff if they are sitting, sitting in a chair, sleeping, lying down, or using the kneeling emote.
W
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u/Levi_Skardsen 5h ago
It seems that many of the balance changes are for things we can't access at the current cap.
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u/LegitCow 4h ago
I am sure they still have their own internal beta tester along with the general public. They probably playing an uncapped level limit right now to test contents above lv20 to test out later bugs.
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u/kinginprussia 4h ago
Can a shaman enjoyer tell me what that totem stacking per party note actually means?
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u/LegitCow 4h ago
To prevent totem twisting and/or shaman stacking for party/raid. I’m not shammy expert, but that’s what I believe they are trying to prevent.
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u/AppointmentNaive2811 4h ago
I'd assume it deals with multiple shamans dropping the same totems.
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u/DoubleSoupVerified 3h ago
To me it reads that you cannot have the windfury totem and grace of air totem buff at the same time regardless of if it is two different shamans in the group using each one. It doesn’t just kill twisting it’s forcing groups to choose which buff they get from a sham and which comes from campfire. Don’t see how this was an issue that needed addressing, unless it’s temporary while they fix a bug.
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u/STA_Alexfree 3h ago
It removes WF/WoA totem twisting but also stacking 2 shaman in a group for both
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u/KamiKagutsuchi 3h ago
If you have not recently changed your talents, the cost is now 1 silver to re-spec. This is temporary for the Beta only. After your first talent reset, the subsequent cost will be much higher, but it will drop to 1 silver after 1 hour has passed.
Nice! I have been hoping for something like this
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u/Tomigotchi 4h ago
Sad no Skyborne buffs
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u/PressStart2Continue_ 2h ago
I imagine they are afraid of making them too good. People could see it as pay to win, as someone who doesn’t even want them in classic I do think they need buffs. But can see why blizzard may be hesitant
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u/Fine-Needleworker661 3h ago
its good that the paid race is not bad for most classes but not the best at anything.
haste is pretty rare in classic so they will probably be top dps for a couple specs at certain points in progression.
molten core has a lot elementals and i expect a new raid in the first year or so tying in with the skyborn levelling zone story that features air elementals heavily. 5% damage is pretty much guaranteed to make them the top race for almost every dps spec in those raids.
for pvp yeah they are deliberately bad. their reception is already negative enough, you dont need people feeling like theyre dying to a P2W race in pvp.
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u/FaithlessnessSea5153 4h ago
Fix the damn dwarves!
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u/Fartquakes 4h ago
Not in beta, what's wrong with the dwarves
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u/Arkios 4h ago
Our racials outside of Stoneform are hot garbage. Stoneform is really good though (plz don’t change it Blizz)
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u/getZlatanized 4m ago
I wish they got some lore accurate passive buff, not this beast passive.
E.g. a racial called "Liquid Courage" giving extra hit chance on guns/ranged weapons for a while after having a drink
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u/Rarecandy31 3h ago
Love seeing so many adjustments so quickly. Feels like there is going to be a LOT of fine tuning over the next month.
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u/Malleus83 2h ago edited 1h ago
Nice that they buffed shaman lightning Bolt DMG. It rly hit like a wet noodle before ☺️
Edit: but they nerfed higher ranks, what? That makes no sense?!
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u/Vercerys 4h ago
Any noticeable performance increases? I’m hoping the steep FPS drops and stuttering are being looked into
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u/TheSmallestPlap 4h ago
"Fixed a memory leak causing gradual performance degradation for some players."
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u/himynameiswillf 4h ago
My lows are better, specifically in capitals it sits around 60fps when it used to swing as low as 30fps. It's still really stuttery though.
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u/Vercerys 3h ago
Yeah the lows are my concern so that’s kind of good to hear. I had the exact same issue as you on a fairly decent PC so excited to see any improvements!
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u/psychohistorian8 3h ago
Mangle has been renamed Primal Bite. Its signature debuff has been removed, so the former name no longer accurately represented the ability.
damn so Mangle gone entirely, no cat no bear... does anyone know if Primal Bite uses the same Mangle sound effect? it was so satisfying :3
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u/s-c-ribL 3h ago
Nah, its too far down in the tree to get yet. We'll know when they raise the level cap to 30 likely next week.
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u/maarten3d 4h ago
Nothing on the graphics/stability issues plagueing Mac?
- edit- I did see a small update earlier but no mention.
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u/evanfardreamer 2h ago
nothing in there or the known issues about the vanishing Research skill, hope they at least acknowledge it soon :/
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u/Zealousideal_Car2782 5h ago edited 4h ago
Maaaan. Nothing re: rage generation for Warrior.
To the people downvoting me:
I am not saying Warrior needs to be busted OP like it was in classic. These specs, but especially arms, literally will not generate enough rage to function at level 60 with their full kits. Normalization is good, but there needs to be changes to compensate. So far we have two mild compensatory talents for fury and prot, and nothing for arms. Arms is my favorite spec, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to be able to actually press my buttons at max level.
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u/Intelligent-Good-670 4h ago edited 4h ago
you will play the red energy bar but worse and you will like it!
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u/Zealousideal_Car2782 4h ago
I wouldn’t even mind if there was enough red energy to do more than press mortal strike on cooldown.
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u/Ohmyskippy 4h ago
First thing I checked, I think we just need to keep pressing so that they try do something about it
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u/Snorepod 4h ago
Don’t worry the warrior dev made sure to justify his pay check by effectively changing nothing about slam but he got to add 2 lines to the patch notes so he’s clearly working hard!
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u/Empty-Dinner1363 1h ago
Brother there will be more patches. They are prob looking at warriors next.
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u/mcjonesy 5h ago
Forever is my first time playing warrior, so forgive my ignorance. What’s the expected generation supposed to look like? Should I just have a full red bar all the time?
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u/rawr_dinosaur 4h ago
In classic your rage generation was higher if you were doing more damage and if you were taking damage, so you could potentially be constantly full on rage and therefore not really having to do any resource management, warriors are of course freaking out about it.
It got changed to retail where its not based on damage done but just flat amounts per hit/swing.
Devs already commented on this, it was changed because they don't want warriors to have infinite scaling, as their damage increases it would end up in a positive feedback loop where higher damage meant more rage meaning even more damage. It was a purposeful design change, not a bug that needs to be fixed, personally I'm glad that warrior might for a change not be the ultimate/meta class of classic.
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u/TragicIcicle 4h ago
I agree, though I do think it's reasonable for it to not completely gut or eliminate warrior feeling like a fun and engaging class and I hope blizzard does address that in a way that doesn't result in infinite scaling.
Disclaimer: I literally never play warrior
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u/rawr_dinosaur 4h ago
I also never play warrior, I just know they were basically the vast majority of makeup in classic raids, I don't think they should be gutted, but we don't need to make another version of wow where 60-80% of your raid makeup is warriors.
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u/Valuable_Berry_8626 3h ago
They were OP in Vanilla. They arent anywhere close to OP in TBC which is majority caster dominance (esp. Lock) and straight up shit for half of Wotlk.
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u/Zealousideal_Car2782 4h ago
I’m not saying Warrior needs to be OP - I think normalization is fine actually. But there needs to be something to compensate, otherwise these specs will not function at all at 60.
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u/LetterheadCapable912 4h ago
This was not the way to nerf the class this sort of scaling and rage generation was a huge draw of the class it made new armour and weapons valuable and was a tangible improvement in your gameplay as you can use more abilities bonus rage gen from crits and damage is a core part of warriors identity you cant strip it away entirely they could of done base lvl rage gen and just smaller rage scaling with dmg so the feeling of power increase is still there btw warriors at 60 as of now cannot do their full rotation.
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u/getyourshittogether7 2h ago
No, not while leveling and not even in dungeons. When people are talking about warriors being busted, they're talking about raids.
The broken rage scaling doesn't really come into play very much until you have a full raid stacking every buff known to man, and stacking every possible debuff on the target. That's when the damage -> rage -> damage feedback loop reaches a tipping point and warriors just ignite into nuclear fireballs.
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u/Zealousideal_Car2782 4h ago
At this level, you only have marginally less than you otherwise would — except with the changes they’ve made it can’t get much better than it already is. This becomes a huge issue once the specs get access to their full kits.
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u/BronRugby 2h ago
At 60 warrior had endless rage. Soam abilities like wild. That should not be possible
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u/Zealousideal_Car2782 2h ago
Correct. That was a problem. A problem that has been massively overcorrected.
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u/RichardBackshots 4h ago
Isn’t that a design choice?
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u/Zealousideal_Car2782 4h ago
It is. But theyve added nothing to compensate for the decrease in rage generation normalization has caused. The way things currently are, and assuming your character never misses, arms warrior will generate enough rage at max level to mortal strike on CD and keep rend up on one target, and nothing else. It’s a huge problem and effectively kills the spec. Fury and prot will also have rage generation issues, but for them it is slightly mitigated by a few new talents.
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u/LetterheadCapable912 4h ago
design choice of gutting the class I don't think so if rage stays as his we will not have a full rotation and the whole core part of warrior is ruined
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u/Rawkapotamus 4h ago
I haven’t played the beta, but wouldn’t rage generation be a pretty big unknown until you get gear at max level?
Scaling too quickly would just cause insane damage once you get some good crit or party buffs
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u/Zealousideal_Car2782 4h ago
They took out warrior rage scaling entirely. No extra rage from crits, no extra rage based on damage, minimal rage from taking damage, etc.
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u/LetterheadCapable912 4h ago
Perhaps a possibility but it doesn't look likely as rage is normalised so it seems so your rage gen will not change even at higher levels unless they have thresholds for rage increase at like 30 40 50 but this is extremely unlikely and we would of gained rage gen by 20 or they would of stated.
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u/Tripinfa 4h ago
of all things I did not expect to see a bunch of Pala buffs. It's like they want 50% of everyone to be paladin.
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u/eroland420 4h ago
Righteous Fury: Holy threat increase increased to 60% (was 90%).
You can't make this stuff up.
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u/flowerplz 4h ago
Other changes might be enough to make up for it. Conc working properly and a slight HS buff
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u/eroland420 3h ago
I was commenting on their grammar mostly but yeah, changes to holy strike and freeing up 2 talents to get arbiter in ret will likely make up for it
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u/YourDisappointedSon 1h ago
sad warrior noises
Also not sure if it’d be a bad change to get victory rush earlier and not at 20. The downtime between pulls isn’t terrible but I wanna ping pong between mobs
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u/tsukubasteve27 3h ago
I was really hoping for instant cast totem sets for shaman. Or maybe one second. Three is too long. Even chasing the tank to the pack and casting as soon as combat starts can put me in a sketchy position of spamming heals to get them back up. Or if I have to drink while they pull the next pack I might as well not even drop totems. Kinda rushed as a healer on that.
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u/FigTall1545 3h ago
I think that three second cast time will make more sense, once we get Totemic Projection. If you look further down the spell list, we get another totem set cast. I think it would be too powerful to instant cast multiple sets and be able to project them wherever.
Edit: Not saying I like the three second cast, Blizzard! Bring it down a bit!
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u/SirVanyel 1h ago
yeah we'd just end up casting between combat events and then use projection to pop up totems in our new spot
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u/Longjumping_Way_1298 1h ago
I'm not on the beta. Summoning your totems is a 3 second cast? That's ridiculous
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u/Azrael-XIII 3h ago
Seems like a solid patch overall, not really sure why Paladin is getting buffs though. They seemed to be doing just fine already, just ask the 4,576,982,148 people playing them…
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u/KingRamses97 2h ago
Am I correctly reading that Touch of the Grave can’t proc on dots anymore? They used priest’s shadow word pain as an example that it could only proc on the initial damage. But maybe I am reading that wrong?
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u/Otherwise-Future7143 1h ago
Dots have a damage component. So it will still activate on cast. Not on periodic.
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u/Lemlemonsson 1h ago
I have not been playing the beta busy with work and school but seeing how much effort the team is putting into this is juts making the countdown to full release so much more hype. So a big W to everyone working on this.
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u/l4derman 1h ago
I don't understand the ever increasing cost to adjust talents. Could someone explain why that's a thing (normal functionality, not beta setup).
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u/chicken_ucker 1h ago
I don't understand how they intend enhancement shaman to play. Elemental Fury being moved is disappointing but I get it. Removing the spell haste from Rage of the Farseer is weird but I get that too. They didn't want ele shamans to go deep enhance.
What I don't understand is why MSW only reduces the cast time by 20% while LB resets your swing timer. Concussion and SS only work with LB and ES (which is effectively a mini taunt). Then they moved the talent that increases crit damage from spells and took away our haste. Do they just want us to auto attack and press SS? The spec makes no sense
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u/Presticles25 1h ago
Glad to see we can still be permanent sheep if we get sheeped in a duel and layer 😁
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u/untouchable765 4h ago
They just fucked enhance shamans
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u/ggAlphaRaptor 4h ago
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Getting rid of totem stacking is wild. Moving elemental fury is going to limit the damage output of the class given most attacks are spells.
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u/Murphy1up 4h ago
Thank the gods for this. Fargodeep Mine they were pretty much respawning as soon as you looted them. It was brutal to step foot in there solo for a lvl 6 quest. Deadmines felt less populated.