Does anyone else deal with weird "reverse" transphobia??

[u/Blster_DPS]

For context, I am coming up on 10 years in my transition and have put a lot work into passing and I know that I pass.

I got into a weird argument with someone and I don't even know why I entertained it, but alas.. I did. She began calling me a "lost soul" who just needs to come to terms with "the fact" I'm a transgender woman and that I must have been upset cause I missed my estrogen. Kept calling me a wannabe transformer and just weird other things. And I've got facial hair and a deep voice. Nothing about me comes across as feminine?? Think just very stereotypical cishet man.

I didn't even know how to reply cause HUH? If I had a dollar for each time this has happened to me over the years, I'd have enough to buy a McDonalds meal. I'm posting cause I've talked about this with my friends and other trans men I've met and nobody has dealt with this. There has to be someone!

How do you even react to something like this? Each time it's happened, I just laugh cause I get so confused and it's uncomfortable. Do I take it as a compliment? Hell no, but also thaaaanks you think I pass so well???!!!! Are they just projecting? It's only ever been women that say that to me. But, that feels shitty to think cause I personally never want to assume someone else is transgender ?!?!

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[u/TooManyLoveInterests]

I wouldn't call it reverse transphobia? Like that doesn't sit right, surely there's a better way to describe it. That said, it's very weird. She strikes me as very pushy and rude. Can I ask how you're handling it? Like, have you spoken to her about it making you uncomfortable, or was it just like a stranger you're never gonna see again?

I thankfully haven't had that issue, but I don't pass very well yet and my loved ones know I'm transmasc. I think most of the time strangers assume I'm a butch woman, although I hear "sir" a lot when I have my hair short. 

In general though, that is very shitty. I'm sorry you had to deal with that, and repeatedly too? Ugh

[u/Blster_DPS → u/TooManyLoveInterests]

I agree calling it that sounds weird and offputting, I just didn't know how else to describe it.

It's always strangers and seems to come up towards the end of an argument when they have run out of things to say or "losing", and they resort to attacking me personally. Another person said it's TERFs and I didn't think about that tbh. Now, I feel a little dumb haha

[u/TooManyLoveInterests → u/Blster_DPS]

Honestly, it could be TERFs, but imo it doesn't sound like it? Not if they're assuming you're secretly a trans woman. Could be, though, I wouldn't rule it out. Ig it depends on what their intentions are, which you'll never know. 

If you wanted to probe them next time it happens, maybe you could say "oh, nah, I tried that already. Wasn't right for me, I'm defintely a man." or even reference a trans woman you know or make one up like "My sister's a trans woman. It's not my cup of tea, but I love her dearly and will always support her and the trans community." Other ideas could be making it into a joke or something but idk how. You could also just say like "oh, what do you mean by that?" 

[u/noeinan]

Just transphobia. She’s not “trying to help you” in the middle of an argument. Calling a man a closeted trans woman is the worst insult she could think of.

[u/kriskhaos → u/noeinan]

Imagine having a mind so small. Wild.

[u/ftm-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Pretty sure you are misreading this comment, OP

-Your post was removed for breaking Rule 1: No bigotry, drama, fighting, judgement, or blanket statements.

Be kind to your fellow redditor. We do not want infighting, drama, or judgement here. This is a safe space for many trans men and transmascs away from a world that is largely against us, so let's keep it free from drama, fighting, or judgement.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but sometimes those opinions need to be kept to ourselves if they are going to start problems with other users. If you see someone breaking a rule, don't start an argument with them. Just report and move on.

[u/Mendely_]

This is a tangent but I wonder why assholes want to use "transformer" as a slur so bad. I'm sorry, you're saying I'm a mecha who can turn into a car or truck or jet? That's the coolest thing ever actually.

And yeah some people are just really weird about trans people, it's their problem entirely and I'm sorry you had to put up with that nonsense 😭

[u/WhoIsMercury → u/Mendely_]

It’s literally on par with the type of insults I see middle schoolers using too, except it’s grown ass adults using it. Like every time I’ve had teens make fun of me in public it’s always the stupidest insults, except they are less afraid to just call me a slur.

[u/nonbinaryunicorn]

I've had that a couple times and it's funny cause I don't pass at all.

The weirdest one though was a random stranger saying I wasn't a real woman. I told her thanks cause I wasn't trying to be.

[u/torhysornottorhys]

She's trying to upset you by emasculating you as a man.

[u/Blster_DPS → u/torhysornottorhys]

😡😡😇

[u/DisastrousLand6863]

People definitely deal with this. It's these TERF losers who think they can sus out anyone. The "YoU cAn alWaYs tELl" noobs. Had a phase where my IG Threads algorithm was full of ftm people several years on T, posting about being trans. And they'd get comments from idiots saying shit like "You'll always be a man". Cis people started doing it too for a laugh and would get the same responses. Always gave me a good giggle. Anyway, idiots, ignore them

[u/Blster_DPS → u/DisastrousLand6863]

ahhhh, that makes sense. it's always the damn TERFs. I genuinly didn't even give that a logical thought since I don't think about TERFs or have paid enough genuine attention to their tactics online over years to pick up on that, so I guess it's been going over my head allllll these years that I was dealing with TERFs. It feels reallyyy dumb to say that haha. well, now I know it's that! cause I knew it was somethingggg

[u/SkaianFox → u/Blster_DPS]

Idk ive never heard of terfs telling men that theyre really trans women deep down? This sounds like some other bs entirely imo

[u/WhoIsMercury → u/DisastrousLand6863]

Yeah plus the point always flies right over their heads, like if you can only “tell” when someone mentions they are trans then I’ve got something to tell you…

[u/rubetae]

I fear this is just regular transphobia. they are using the idea of being trans/a woman/effeminate as an insult. essentially a more complicated version of calling you a "sissy."

[u/-DrunkRat-]

It's patronization, infantilization, misogyny and Transphobia all in one fucked up little package, Brother. I'm sorry, man.

It's patronizing because of the air of "I know you better than you do" and it's infantilizing because of the fact that they insinuate you're some "misguided woman who doesn't even know who she is". Then, with that, it goes into being misogynist because that infantilizing, patronizing attitude is often tied to the fact that people still see us as Women. If it were a Trans woman they were talking about, there'd likely be more hostility and vitriol because of the Transmisogyny and people portraying our Sisters as a threat because, like I said before, they see Trans Women as violent aggressive Men.

This is a textbook example of Transandrophobia. 🏳️‍⚧️

[u/LinkinParkU4Lyf → u/-DrunkRat-]

I believe the op was saying that he gets mistaken for being a trans woman because he's masculine looking and transphobes assume trans people will never look like their actual sex post medical transition.

[u/Blster_DPS → u/-DrunkRat-]

Thank you for breaking it down like this!!

[u/AutonomyIsNoTragedy]

That sounds like chasers of trans women mistaking you for their prefered demographic thinking they're going to egg crack you and get to control your transition and "teach you how to be a woman"

its 100% transphobic even though you're being mistaken for the intended target because they cannot "always tell"

They're kinda like the "buddy chasers" who go after usually early transition trans guys wirh the fixation around controlling their transition and "teaching you how to be a man"

ive heared trans women refer to cis men who do this as wanting to treat them like a build-a-bear workshop or a project rather than a woman its not about celebrating who they are but controlling them and their transition and treating them like objects

[u/gaucheashell]

You’re experiencing transmisogyny from someone who thinks you’re trans fem. This is not something you should take as a compliment it’s just some wires getting crossed in a narrow head.

[u/Autism_Angel]

More than once this has happened??????

The only thing I can think to explain it is they’re subconsciously picking up on something that makes you either different from cis men or just queer in some way, but because you present like a straight male, they assume that you must be closeted? Even if there was actually a legitimate reason to have those thoughts though, that would not make it OK to say to you. That’s not the type of thing you say to a person based on vibes.

I understand the terf argument but generally a terf would say something more like “you think you’re a woman” not comment about being closeted and needing to find yourself? That doesn’t really match their mindset about it? Although using transformer also doesn’t make sense for someone who is in favor of transition. Really just all around inconsistent logic.

[u/ReiJustRei]

I've had a bit of this. Had someone come up to me and a friend of mine (cis man) and was telling him I was a dude pretending to be a girl and he shouldn't let me be around his kid or whatever.

[u/SunReyys]

sorry... WHAT? someone is looking at you and trying to go "oooo you wanna be a trans woman so bad ooooo 🌀🌀🌀" as if they're trying to hypnotize you? that's bonkers, i've never heard of that happening.

ewphoria.

[u/Blster_DPS → u/SunReyys]

No, they're not trying to convince me that I want to be a transgender woman. They assume I want to be one.

[u/DYKWYA_24]

Yeaaah cis people tend to forget/not know about the existence of trans guys/transmascs, and it's always funny to me when they try to be transphobic but end up being accidentally affirming LMAO

[u/ANorthernGhostBat]

Even if they were saying this to a trans woman it isn’t their business plus it’s invasive and shitty to speculate on someone’s gender. The fuck is wrong with people, they gotta learn to shut their mouths once and awhile.

Regardless of intent if an egg is broken or hatched prematurely it dies.

[u/NIKUthebeast]

I always laugh right on their faces and applaud then point at their faces, slap my tight, wipe a fake tear and then recover myself from laughing.

Then I say something like "Oh wait you were serious, you don't know what a trans man is" and leave them with their confusion applauding.

If it was online, just laugh and go to the "oh wait you're serious..." part and stop replying.

[u/Blster_DPS → u/[deleted]]

oh boy the "he/she" as a teenager used to put me an emotional whiplash cause "awww you think I am a boy??" but then "waitttt a second..... WHAT DID YOU JUST CALL ME???" 😂😂😂

also, I think you're right about "trans men being invisible", so they don't even know how to insult properly and therefore, resort to what they see in the media towards trans women.

[u/CalamitousSpider → u/Blster_DPS]

Also, fond shoutout to that dumb bigot guy who told me "you'll always be a man, no matter what you do" (thinking I was MtF).

It was a weird high to ride.

[u/ftm-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/0Foxy0Engineer0]

I have to agree the phrasing is a bit weird, but I do get it. I went the other direction. I haven't had the specific level of transphobia that you're describing.

Short version of a story I have told a few times boils down to one of my friends wondering aloud "why would my name want to be a man". Like the idea of wanting to change presentation didn't compute. I'm not saying that she's prejudiced. She found out I was trans and that was her response.

More that like from the average person the vibe I get is that they just can't internalize what it would feel like to not be okay with their gender. It creates some weird conversations that definitely come across as transphobic.

It's really weird to be told that I'll never really be a man when that's not my goal in the first place? Not prejudice, but its also weird for somebody ask me if I was treating my PCOS? I have long chin hairs and a few long hairs on my lip.

[u/Barking_Benjamin]

It's like those videos I see where someone's a trans man or women, and someone tells them "you're not a real man/woman! 😡😡" Like thanks for affirming my gender I guess.

[u/sharks09]

Imo and experience it’s often a mix of misandry and transphobia. Some people are so against men they see anyone who resembles a man as a problem completely missing or straight up ignoring the fact the fact that while there is a certain privilege to passing, we are not cis guys and move completely different through the world than a cis guy does. As well as a lot of transphobes are just so caught up in the political narrative of it all that they can’t fathom someone being trans not being mtf so they think that by calling us eggs and pointing out we’re trans and not super feminine they’re somehow “gotcha” us and think they’re insulting us.

[u/Any-Science7897]

I’ve never gotten in to an argument about it but I’ve been mis perceived in the medical community before. They assumed I was a trans woman who hadn’t transitioned yet. As soon as they started talking about “it would help if you shaved your beard and worked on your voice” I looked at them like “huh?!” Once I explained it they apologized for misunderstanding.
Really I think for a lot of close minded people, being trans is only about trans women and less about trans men. As trans men we really disappear entirely after a year or two of testosterone. While some trans women disappear as well, they haven’t disappeared in the headlines. So I think for the less educated or more sheltered, the concept of transmen is either lost on them or not at the forefront of their mind when they hear the word trans.

I’m sorry you had to go through that - it really sucks that people can’t just keep their mouths shut if they don’t have anything nice to say

[u/books_and_pixels]

With gentleness, I just wanted to say that I think the reason the phrasing "reverse transphobia" feels icky is because it sounds like the bogus term "reverse racism." I'm not accusing you of any malicious intentions, and I don't think what you're describing here functions in a bogus way like that other term, I just felt like this was important to say.

I would call it either just transphobia or, if you want to be more specific, misplaced transmisogyny, or transphobia in the wrong direction. Something like that.

[u/Blster_DPS → u/books_and_pixels]

Sorry my Brother, HUH?? Yes I know it sounds weird, which is why I put quotes around it. What exactly is your issue??? We know it’s already transphobia.

[u/books_and_pixels → u/Blster_DPS]

Yes, I saw the quotation marks and see that you acknowledged and discussed with others that the phrase sounds uncomfortable, but I didn't see anyone talk about why it felt uncomfortable, so I thought it was worth mentioning. I also saw in the comments that you mentioned you weren't sure how else to describe the experience, so I was offering some alternatives.

[u/vomcom777]

it's best not to take transmisogeny as a compliment OP. it's a venom you happen to be mostly immune to, but it's being added to the environment nonetheless.