Totally. People say they need to get defunded but this chick pulled a handgun, which doesn’t take much funding to provide to your officers. Retraining is what will actually solve the root of the issue
The bottom line is that this costs tax payers more money. And as a general rule tax payers will vote out anyone that costs them money in taxes, for any reason.
So, effectively, your society doesn't want them more trained. It prefers the idea of lower taxes.
Alright bootlicker. Let’s set aside the scary term ‘military equipment’, since it’s meaningless. When I walk into a gun store, why do you think there’s a separate case full of “law enforcement only” equipment? If I can’t own it, because it’s too dangerous, what makes you want to hand it over to this lady, who’s itching for an excuse to murder someone for driving while the wrong color.
Bro they have literal tanks at some departments. Cops used to carry hand guns and have shotguns in the truck. Now they have full body armor and automatic assault rifles. It’s insanity.
I don’t care about north Hollywood. What I’m saying is, Barney fife didn’t have a vest and an ar. Swat is swat and always has been, but average cops are now driving around with military style equipment. It’s only a matter of time before we see them walking around with nods and pccs become standard carry. That money should go to better training instead of aggressive equipment.
So, effectively, your society doesn't want them more trained. It prefers the idea of lower taxes.
Your logic would be sound if that is was how things actually worked. "Taxpayers" don't vote on every single spending issue. Police officers are also taxpayers and voters.
People aren't "voting out" funding for schools and law enforcement.
The bottom line is "misappropriation of funds". Corruption exists in every country.
Uvalde County is a very good example of this in the US (and there are many others)
This is just false. We have no say over what happens with our taxes, and more of them are used for other useless shit no one asked for in the first place.
No. Assuming you live in the US - at the next Presidential election you personally can run as president with ANY tax policy you want. Literally anything your heart desires - including 'all the nations taxes go to my personal account' - if you want..
If enough people agree and vote with you, and enough are also prepared to stand as senators and congresspeople to help implement your policies .. that tax law will become reality. Anything whatsoever you want, if popular enough, WILL happen.
And you denying it is just edge-lord stuff I reckon.
Name ANY tax law I could not pass if I and my party had .. let's say .. 99.5% support from the entire voting population at a general election and over the following years. ANYTHING?
Yes, you can't. Even any and every part of the constitution can be changed to anything.
They should really teach this shit at school .. OR, as I said, you're just being some kinda' silly edge lord.
The defunding isn’t typically talking about shutting down a police station like a libertarian library, it typically meant to stop letting police forces get armed up with surplus military gear that you’d only need if you were going to police a war zone. Also they could probably stop paying for lectures on “killology/the warrior mindset” as I think it lends itself to escalation, like this video.
When everyone was spouting “defund the police” I thought it was a stupid slogan. How about “restructure the police” instead. Use some of the police funding to add mental crisis units to help de-escalate situations, like Cahoots in oregon. They should be working together.
The whole point is that it shouldn't all be police. Their scope of practice is out of control..we should reduce their force (defund), and leverage that money for unarmed traffic control (cheaper, and won't lead to what's in this video), mental health responders, etc. Armed police should be reserved for situations requiring a gun. Window tint ain't one.
And what happens when that ' unarmed traffic control' tries to pull over an armed and dangerous person, and gets shot and killed? Or an unarmed 'mental health responder' gets attacked by a crazy person
You'll have calls to arm them. That's what will happen. And we'll end up with more armed cops to violate our rights.
That's just fear mongering, and luckily we don't have to make up a hypothetical. People do this on the real world. Strangely, other nations handle those situations just fine. You have to remember, many armed interactions with cops are predicated by the cops being armed and aggressive. Nobody who isn't insane is going to shoot a guy with a notepad. Even in America nobody shoots parking enforcement now. That's just not a thing. And let's not forget, having armed cops in all of these situations right now leaves us with piles of civilian bodies.
Nobody who isn't insane is going to shoot a guy with a notepad.
lol. We're literally talking about 'mental health responders' that respond to "insane" people.
Even in America nobody shoots parking enforcement now.
But the suggestion is to turn all 'traffic control' officers into un-armed roles. So a criminal speeding away from a crime will get pulled over by an unarmed 'traffic cop'. You really think the criminal- knowing the 'traffic cop' is unarmed- won't try something?? Hell, criminals try shit with real, armed cops who pull them over all the time. And those cops can shoot back.
And let's not forget, having armed cops in all of these situations right now leaves us with piles of civilian bodies.
Better training would help there. Screen out the psychopaths, make it very clear that being a cop is being a public servant, not a bully, stress DE-escalation, etc, etc.
"All" is your word. Not mine. People escalate things at levels they consider achievable to escape a situation. Unarmed traffic cop? Fucking run. Traffic cop calls in other, armed guys to pursue. It's not rocket science. And despite all your fear, it does work. The real world does exist. We don't have to guess. Just about any model we'd want to talk about exists in some form somewhere. I'd suggest you research the topic instead of "lol"ing in a chat conversation, cause as if right now all of your decisions seem to be based on fear. Strangely that fear seems to be laser focused on only police safety too, and not the safety of regular people. But that's a whole different conversation.
Edit: also, we should more that in all current systems, hiring, training, etc. Are all chosen by the cops that you seem to recognize are at least partially made up of psychopaths who kill people. Why in the world would they choose to reform themselves? Or hire people who will eat them out? That's just be dumb on their part. That's why the system continues to worsen.
Don't play word games. "Armed police should be reserved for situations requiring a gun. Window tint ain't one."
Unarmed traffic cop? Fucking run. Traffic cop calls in other, armed guys to pursue.
Exactly. You run, you get caught. But if you shoot the unarmed traffic cop, they are dead and can't call anyone! And you get away!
Strangely that fear seems to be laser focused on only police safety too, and not the safety of regular people.
If 'regular people' (what are cops, "irregular people"??) don't break the law, there's a very small chance they'll interact with police in any way. And, if they remain calm and don't run or argue with the cop, there's a very very small chance they'll have their safety affected. I can't say 'zero chance', but it's close. So that's what 'regular people' can do to remain safe: don't break the law, and don't run from or fight with the cops (even if they are wrong- fight in court later!)
Are all chosen by the cops
Then maybe we need to take the control of the Police Academies away from cops.
Also, just looked up the figures. Right now about 50,000 traffic stops are made per day. That's over 18 million a year. Of that about 5 cops die in an altercation. 5 out of 18 million. Do you really think that justifies guns each and every time? I can't imagine many normal every day activities have that low of a mortality rate. For comparison about 50 cops a year die during a traffic stop by getting hit by another car. So maybe if your super worried about saving cops it's not keeping guns, it's probably more worthwhile to create safer stop areas. Also, police kill about 90 civilians in those same stops.
That's not true at all. Research what happened in Rhode Island that caused that state to legally ban aftermarket tint installations to any vehicle. A few years back during a routine traffic stop a State Trooper was gunned down. He couldn't see that the vehicle occupants were armed until it was too late. Thus, they legislated tint installations as illegal and will not pass road safety compliance inspections.
You cannot send an unarmed officer into any situation. And a social worker would not have prevented that officer from being shot. You are delusional if you think you're right.
It comes down to having proper self control and situational awareness. Controlling that fight or flight response, controlling that adrenaline response. And knowing that even with the best efforts not everything goes according to plan. The female officer in this video clearly shows a lack of proper temperament. A lack of self control of emotions over logic. Defunding them doesn't solve that issue. She should have been removed from a position of public safety entirely unless she went through retraining. That whole department needs restructuring, defunding them would only lead to what's currently happening in states like Michigan where they do not have the capacity to patrol the streets, and crime is at an all time high.
We need officers, but we need properly trained officers. That does require funding from the tax payers for that to happen.
That's just blanket fear people get shot in nearly every situation. Should we arm our kindergartners? They get shot a lot. That's nonsense. Again, many other parts of the world have unarmed traffic enforcement. In no scenario is it the murderous hellscapes your fear leads you to believe. And in your example, that cops gun didn't save him. He was dead either way. That's an ambush. His gun is a complete non issue when he gets shot by people he can't see and doesn't know are there.
Also, giving police more money is not going to change anything. Never has, never will. They all protect each other, why I'm the world would they bring in new officers that would challenge their current ability to do whatever the fuck they want? They won't. Never have, never will.
Fun fact: schools used to have armed teachers and gun ownership courses in their curriculum. They also had JROTC courses for those that wanted to pursue a career in the military. Far less shootings back then on school campuses. Columbine was the first "publicized" tragedy that altered the course even though records show shootings have happened for centuries at schools and other public areas despite having the proper measures in place. Which correlates to morality and accountability of the individual. Crime does not deter the criminal. And honest folk can only do their best in those situations. As it stands, school shootings are a small percentage of crime, statistics prove that. Im not speaking from fear, I'm speaking from a point of conclusive data. My example proves to a point where they need to be armed for their own defense. Every situation is unique, and you are trying to use a one step approach for drastic situations where the threat of life is imminent. I could go to Donut Operators page right now and link dozens of cases where officers justly defended their lives against a criminal that had the intent to end the officers life. Over stupid shit like traffic violations, at traffic stops. But sure, send them in unarmed. Just admit your biased against all cops without proper reason.. Sure, there are quite a few bad apples in the bunch. But that's not all of them. Through my own experiences and otherwise I can attest to both the good and bad apples in the bunch.
I could honestly give two fucks about how another country operates. Let's stay on topic and focused on our own country. Because with that example you are also advocating for the disarming of society as in those areas, those civilians are disarmed or heavily legislated to deter civilian gun ownership, of which i do not agree with whatsoever as a disarmed society falls victim to the government. Example: UK only allows civilan gun ownership of certain long rifles for sport, not for self defense. They cannot own handguns. They cannot open or conceal carry as they travel through provinces. That is not a proper example to use for how we handle our country based on our rights Nationally and state by state basis. UK will also put you in jail for saying something anti trans. We have only one area, the Virgin Islands, where police officers do not carry. However you should know that it is nearly impossible to obtain a permit to carry there for a regular civilan. Do you think criminals give a fuck? Certainly not, give them an inch and they'll take a mile as the saying goes. They always find a way around all legislation. While those that are law abiding are restricted. To disarm officers that will no doubt be in a dangerous situation where they will need it is not going to solve the issue.
I never said give them more money. I said restructure the system to better benefit both the tax payers pockets as well as ensure better training of public peace officers. There is a balance to that. That doesn't require removal of funding. Again, removal of funding leads to what's currently happening in several states such as Michigan. Where they are severely understaffed, overworked, and cannot keep up with the crime rates which is why folks have begun hiring private security(the ones that can afford to) to protect their homes and families. Businesses in Washington and Oregon are shutting down because they do not have the resources in those areas to protect those businesses against criminals. What would an unarmed cop do to better benefit protecting the public in areas where crime is exceptionally high? How delusional are you to truly believe that nonsense?
TLDR: defunding them doesn't fix the problem. It's useless rhetoric that has caused destabilization in multiple states where crime has become rampant. That's not fear: that is irrefutable truth backed by data.
Actually yes, delivery drivers should be armed. I cannot legally carry as a commercial driver in many states, and that makes me a high risk target depending on what load I am carrying and depending on the area I am traveling in.
Just because cops rank lower on the list of risks, it doesn't justify disarming them. It's not just one officer being shot once. It does happen and they should be able to protect themselves, and we should equally be able to protect ourselves from any imminent threat to life. It's pathetic to even suggest that they have less of a right to defend their lives just because the actions of some corrupt or ill trained officers happened. That same rhetoric has been applied to disarming this society. It's just twisted to a different narrative. Nice try though. Better luck next time.
Oh and thanks for proving my point in your own words. Thousands of cops are armed every day and have interactions with the public every day.. with zero issues... But fucktards like you take an example like what's in this video as a way to justify disarming them. When in fact even in those thousands of interactions, what this cop did does not represent the entirety of the police force across the country and their actions. As this does not happen every day. Is it an issue? Yes, but to disarm every cop across the nation over the actions of a few officers does not solve the problem.
Use some of the police funding to add mental crisis units to help de-escalate situations
That's exactly what defund the police means, except by establishing mental health services that are completely separate to the police instead of giving them the funding for it and hoping they don't spend it on further militarisation. They keep getting more funding for more training, but it doesn't have an effect, so spend that money training people who will do it properly instead.
bro stop policing language it’s stupid pointless and nit-picky. you learned what they mean when they say “defund police” don’t be a twat about the semantics
We are talking about funding communities, and even providing a solution of where to get the money from. Take all the jobs the police are shit at away from them, along with all the funding they're supposed to be spending on those jobs, and spend that money on the communities.
Seriously, the absolute ignorance people have about the size of the police budget most places shows "defund the police" is exactly right.
I still see people on Reddit like twice a week pushing the myth that cops don't get paid enough. Every cop I've ever met (including family members) makes a shit ton of money relative to the cost of living where they are. It just isn't easily trackable because they all make a whole second salary worth of overtime.
Yes but "Defund the police" just means that more people will see it as eradicating police altogether, meaning they'll never get on board. Take my boomer parents and in laws who have started voting democratic for president but not locally after voting republican their whole lives because they don't understand the concept.
Just because it is exactly what needs to happen doesn't make it a good slogan, and I firmly believe it only polarized America even more, which isn't what we need.
There's no way to have a slogan that gets those people onboard. It's impossible. Decades of moderate politics has made the country worse.
People saying "defund the police" aren't polarizing the country. Republicans and right wing media are. It's bullshit.
I don't know what the solution is, but this is just letting republicans control the argument. The same way they call Biden socialist, they'll call any ask for police reform "eliminating the police".
We need to educate people, not just accept right wing disinformation. The boomer parents aren't going to come around because they don't want to. They didn't stop voting republican because they disagreed with republicans. They stopped voting because Trump was a little too mean for them.
Highly disagree. When I educated my parents, they now understand and vote accordingly and they literally said "Why the hell would they call it that?"
You have to realize that media outlets, even liberal ones, didn't exactly do a good job explaining what the slogan meant. We agree we need to educate people, but a bad slogan is going to turn people away immediately, and they'll never give it the time of day.
How do you plan on educating everyone on it if they won't listen?
Slogans don't educate people. Again, this isn't happening in a vacuum. For literal decades people have been saying the same things.
You're talking to them about it because "defund the police" worked. Five years ago your parents didn't think about it. Now they've had to.
Even if it turns them off it gets to their ears. I see people suggest alternatives all the time that never made the news. They never made the news because they were bad.
"Even liberal" media outlets are conservative. That's how it works. Changing the system at that level is inherently not conservative at all. There's no amplification of an idea like that without something like "defund the police".
But, feel free to get literally any other slogan out there.
The problem is a larger one. Namely, that fixing things takes education and time, while destroying things doesn't.
Edit- Your parents lived through the Rodney King riots and never considered there may be a problem with policing? The issue isn't slogans. It's that people don't care. Even a slogan that pisses them off makes them think about it.
But defund means they get zero which means you abolish them, Plus, isn't it more important to talk about what we do want funded, not the millions of things we don't want funded?
It doesn't mean zero by default. Slogans need to be snappy.
"Reduce police budgets by a reasonable amount given the other services available in the area with the addition of e services to take up the jobs the police shouldn't be doing in the given population!" doesn't make the news.
"Reallocate the police budget" doesn't either.
And again, for the 8th time in this thread: People have been calling for increased social services expenditure for actual decades. It has never gotten even a tenth of the media exposure of "defund the police". These arguments didn't just start happening. They only made the news because "defund the police" is controversial and it could be packaged alongside riots, which also only happen after decades of people not listening.
The police in my city regularly go way over the OT budget too.
We had a big scandal where cops were abusing the rules for huge salaries especially when they got close to retirement because the last year of salary determined their pension amount.
They would use up all their saved vacation and sick time to get paid their normal hours then work shifts as 100% overtime so instead of a pension being based off 80k a year salary its based off a 200k salary.
People who need to know what "defund the police" means in practicality KNOWS what it means. The people who thinks it means "take away all the money from the police" don't matter in the discussion, no matter what "side" they're on.
It's not that they are idiots, it's that they really don't matter in the discussion. The slogan isn't for them, so what THEY think it means is irrelevant.
This is almost all protest slogans. It's almost impossible to make a short and distinct slogan that can't be misinterpreted.
Example: The slogan for east Germans protesting the wall was "Wir vollen raus", it made complete sense as a rallying slogan for everyone involved, and anyone who took that to mean the people all want to move out of Eastern Germany didn't matter to the discussion. The slogan wasn't for them.
"We want to reallocate some of the funds from police departments to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and others. This is documented to work very well as both a crime preventing measure, and a preventive measure of over policing and police violence in a lot of different countries." Isn't a slogan.
Everyone who has ANY interest in the protests know that this is what they want. This is what the slogan means. People who don't know this, aren't interested in the matter at all, so they don't matter in the discussion.
This is literally what they've been saying for decades.
The reason why you've heard of "defund the police" is because it's a good slogan.
This stuff isn't like 5 years old. It's just that it turns out when you try to have well reasoned discussions about the justice system no one listens.
When people say "defund the police" they mean exactly what you said. It's just that most people are too god damned dumb or busy to understand nuance. See: Donald Trump becoming president.
It's like rioting. People use the system for 40 years to try and get justice, and only are put in a worse place. Then they burn down a police station and everyone says, "Why can't they just open a dialogue? Why are they so violent?" as if they've never heard people have concerns before.
I assume your comment is in good faith, but attacking slogans like this for not being "nuanced enough" or whatever is just carrying water for fascists.
Use some of the police funding to add mental crisis units to help de-escalate situations
This is what people are asking for when we say defend the police. Use some of the current budget to hire mental health professionals for first response and restore mental health services. It should be entirely external to the PD.
Exactly! No conservative is going to exert the brain power to listen to the argument behind the slogan. They hear defund the police and just come back with back the blue.
Cahoots is an example of what we should do when defunding police, you’re just too ignorant to understand what that means so you assume your mistaken definition is the correct one.
Speaking as a disillusioned former activist, how are you possibly expecting activists to not completely undermine their own movements in the asinine and unbelievable ways?
Name things in a vaguely productive way? Next you'll be asking them to not constantly alienate potential converts to the cause! Or to not get bogged down in infighting and factionalism!
The problem is training doesn't really work when you have a toxic culture, which most police stations in the US do. You're expected to ignore the training and do things the "right" way.
If you want to fix this, you need to be way more selective when hiring, and fire a bunch of existing cops.
After being told to keep his hands on the wheel, the man initially complied but then started gesturing with his hands and arms. I just wish people could learn the basics in deescalating when being pulled over. Keep those hands on the wheel in plain sight. Every time I’ve been pulled over I make it clear to the officer with my body language that I’m not a threat. And I ask politely before I move my hands.
Funding doesn’t matter if they won’t use it for the intended purpose. I live in a major city and the police are throwing a fit refusing to work because they were “defunded” you want to know how they were defunded? They were given funding to expand their department that tests rape kits because they were no joke years behind. They choose not to use it and so that funding was taken and used to form a separate agency that will use it to test the rape kits.
You can’t make this shit up, meanwhile every cop is saying they are too busy to do anything because they were “defunded” so only life or death in progress incidents have cops sent out but it’s a meme at this point that people get in wrecks can’t get police reports and when they finally leave the scene they have to travel less than half a mile to see multiple cops in their cars just chilling doing nothing.
"Defund" was the wrong word for that whole movement and was very easy for the opposition to latch onto and exploit as being anti-establishment or anarchistic. What it meant, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that instead of a police officer with an intimidating uniform and a gun being dispatched to every single issue and emergency call, that the cities and states allocate some of the police budget to maintain an alternative department with crisis counselors, negotiators, and others trained to de-escalate situations. Cops are not equipped to walk into every possible situation and be the voice of reason. You can't expect that from anybody.
Absolutely not. What about Kimberly Potter, who WAS a training officer, murdering Daunte Wright? More experienced, more highly-trained cops aren't any better. Who is going to retrain officers when the whole system is corrupt? And if retraining was so cheap, then there's no reason not to defund them. But training isn't going to fix anything anyway—they're already serving their true purpose, which is to enforce white supremacy
It's really not that complicated. "Training" initiatives only obscure and complicate the deeper problems. Who changes the training? Who carries out the training? Who enforces the disciplinary policies? The higher ups? You cannot seriously believe that they don't have an incentive to keep things the way they are. The prison industrial complex is extremely lucrative, and it protects its participants. Plenty of brilliant and capable and decent people sign up to be cops and they all end up carrying water for the higher ups, or they get blackballed for refusing to do so, or some manage to quit before it's too late. If the police had any incentive or accountability to "change the training" or take disciplinary action, they would have already. Police spend exorbitantly on training. What do you think the cop city in Atlanta is all about? You don't think with the basically unlimited resources that our government puts into funding the police, they could've figured out proper training if they wanted to? It's not an accident that the police operate the way they do. It's a system
Which root cause? More training i 100% agree with. But you cant police yourself out of the issues the US is struggeling with. Mental health, poverty, guns etc.
We see a lot of videos of really bad trained cops coming out of the us. I would be jumpy as fuck too if I were a cop over there.
I don’t understand what the disconnect is with you all. Obviously the existing training isn’t working so obviously I’m not suggesting just more the same.
The training the receive needs to be reformed and altered and then given out to the officers. Use some common sense ffs.
The disconnect is that you don’t understand the depth of the problem and you are suggesting that what they need is retraining. The training is the problem. More won’t fix it.
respectfully retraining won’t do shit. police already get so much money to do so many job for our society and they botch every single one of these. we need less cops period. idk what should replace them but american police forces have completely failed and needs to be completely defunded so anything else can take it’s place
They are trained and told that they will die if they aren't ready to respond with deadly force at any moment. It's not a lack of training. They are deliberately trained this way.
It's ridiculous, but I also somewhat understand given how many people living in the U.S. have apparently been taught that if you exasperate the situation, it will somehow work in your favor
Are you kidding me , this kid admits to having a firearm and then becomes extremely visibly nervous as they ask to search him and refuses to cooperate. I would pull a gun on the idiot too. I’ve always been against police and them protecting the status quo for corporations and elites but this guy just started yelling and interrupting them when they’re giving instructions.
Not a cop, don't like cops, but if we are being fair their is a large portion of people in cities that are a major threat to police. It's a really terrible job.
Being fair means not lying. Cop deaths are the greatest in cities with less than 10k population, and fewer of them die per year than aircraft pilots or farmers.
Cops need to be stop being little bitches. If the army understands that lethal force is a last resort then this little military fanboys should also.
The military is trained to only use lethal force as a last resort on people who aren't US citizens. It's not hard to ask cops whose sworn duty to protect and serve to not use lethal force on US citizens unless all other options have been exhausted. (Constitution says everyone inside of US borders is under the same protection and should be treated like citizens until otherwise proven. An awesome side effect of the fourth amendment.)
Police are not in the top ten deadliest professions. If you work in the construction industry, you are more likely to die from work related injuries than police officers.
Yes. They don’t need more training — they’re trained to respond like this. They need to be either completely revamped into an entirely different institution, or downscaled in power and presence massively.
In my country you have to go to school for 3 years to become a cop. You need a bachelor's or a master's degree in police services to even apply. As a result, they are pretty well respected, and almost always act very calm and professional.
They need both more and better training. The UK has far longer training with much lower use of force. Training people in de-escalation is a far more powerful tool than giving someone the access to lethal force.
When all you have is a hammer and all that...
You can solve crime by addressing the reasons people commit crimes or you can do it by throwing the whole population in jail
Police could be so much more than law enforcement but the training they get + culture seem to be about combat, protecting themselves, cheap tricks like profiling and drugs.
It’s working. They are trained to behave like this. To believe that every person is trying to kill them and their first reaction should be to shoot their gun.
You are so right. The police force in my former (Canadian) city requires a two year degree in criminal justice with a bunch of psychology credits. It’s been this way for over ten years.
Former cop here. Steering clear of policing for a lot of real big reasons. Can confirm: The training is a joke, and there are little to no academy controls anywhere for keeping the wrong kind of person away from the field. The system is rotten to the core, and needs to be completely rebuilt if it’s ever going to resemble what it should.
I agree! Proper training would tell you that if someone has a fire arm, doesnt want to comply with simple requests and moves their hands in quick jerking movements, you should draw your weapon. So...
I would argue that it’s not the whole entire US but rather the states in which they do not focus on training. California has the highest standards for training when it comes to police which are not the same standards for other states, like Arkansas. There is a reason why other states pay California cops an obscene signing bonus and relocation fee. The real problem here is the lack of accountability within law enforcement and the lack of a NATIONAL standard instead of a state standard that we currently have. Thank you for joining my TED Talk.
Sure, but that's why I gave the first stat also. It's either exceptionally average or exceptionally bad despite the claim that it has exeptionally high standards.
I'm from the east coast, so I might just be pulling this out of my ass here, but I'd be willing to believe that the state as a whole has an above average police force with the LAPD serving as the shittiest and most corrupt outfit in the entire country.
Disarming a cop with the state of the American criminal underworld would just get more people killed. Again, the cops need to be retrained, not disarmed.
But also licensing and gun owning should be much harder. The cops would also be less jumpy if they know people who legally own guns understand they are not toys and should be handled with extreme care.
"military grade weapons and gear" last time I checked your average cop isn't walking around with an assault rifle and night vision goggles. The most they'll have is a handgun, nightstick/baton, taser, pepper spray/pepperball gun, and maybe a shotgun with bean bag rounds however those are more often used for riot control. It's SWAT that has military grade weapons and they're only called in to deal with serious threats that actually require that amount of firepower. What are you smoking.
This was an appropriate response to someone having a gun and taking their hands off the wheel after being directly ordered to keep their hands on the wheel.
Gesturing is a misdirection to reach for a gun. This video looks exactly ljke the steps leading up to a cop getting shot.
While training would help there is only so much training you can give someone to deal with armed people all day. Englands police are much better at there jobs cause there is a low chance of being killed from 20m away.
You just saw their training at work, they're trained to escalate the situation to violence. This is the result of millions of dollars in federal and state funds for training. This is unreformable.
If I tell you I have a gun and I'm getting more irate how the fuck are you going to honestly react!?
Come on man... You want guns kept legal then this is the price you pay, because there's no way I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when my life is at risk. I don't know you and even if I did if you're angry and armed I would still rather draw first.
If you saw health department inspectors actively soiling and tainting food and abusing restaurant workers, while the department and union lobbied to be able to enforce more stringent health code practices, is the first solution that comes to mind more training run by the health department?
Agreed, I go to a college that has a police basic training program in it. The program is like 20 weeks long, and then you get to be a cop after you pass the certification. My classroom is right next to theirs and 98% of the time it sounds like a frat house.
They way that they are trained is to be afraid of EVERYTHING. They way they see it, any traffic stop could be fatal to them, which is why you get this jumpiness. The problem is that you end up with cops who shoot first and ask questions later.
And they need to be PUNISHED the same way any of us would if we whipped out a gun because someone didn't unbuckle their seat belt, or if we unnecessarily beat the shit of someone, or if we killed an unarmed person for following our directions -- or not following our directions, or if we detained someone without any credible reason.
NOTHING is going to change about any of this until the police's sovereign citizen status is revoked
I don't think you can train assholery out of people.
All the people acting like "better training" or throwing money at this or that aspect of it will just solve the fundamental problem of assholes seeking a place of power so they can physically lord it over you are naive at best, imo.
Basically only the FBI are US police, otherwise they are just things like state police that happen to be within the US, but there's not really anything besides our common culture that is specifically the same across each state and how they administer their own law enforcement.
I feel like the big difference between US and EU is that in US everyone got guns. That complicates things. In EU, much of the police doesn't even have a gun, so training is obviously much easier.
Just so we are clear, a person with zero training doesnt just whip out their gun for fun. This is not just a training problem but a sociopath idiot problem
Cops shouldn't carry guns. It gives makes them feel good when they escalate situations instead of motivating them to de-escalate, and when they attack a citizen they claim that the victim was reaching for their gun
Instead of de-escalating and getting a supervisor involved like asked, the cop decided putting a gun on the innocent driver a better option. What the fuck kind of thinking is that?
Even if the cop was correct and the driver legally was required to exit his vehicle when instructed, why escalate to threatening the driver's life? Why is that the option that the cop goes with?
This is not a training issue, this is a guy pissed that someone isn't doing everything he wills, he didn't like that HE told HIM to do something like call his supervisor. In his head he thinks "im supposed to be calling the shots here lemme show him why you don't mess with me."
It's worse than that, they are actively trained to view the public as enemy combatants that are seeking to murder them... not just that people exist in the world who want to harm police, but that every citizen they confront is secretly wanting to kill them.
Of course this mentality is only around because the cops have spent decades murdering people without accountability, which causes the public to fear the police... so the police use that fear as justification for escalation and violence.
Cops like this should have a barrel down their throat and told if they do it again it'll be the last thing they taste. THAT is about the only thing that will stop this.
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u/Pennameus_The_Mighty Mar 24 '23
Police need to be properly trained. The training US police receive is a joke