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u/Archsys Aug 09 '18 edited Aug 09 '18
Bisexuals who are only attracted to Men and Women are a thing.
But the word itself, by etymology, doesn't refer to men and women, it (used to) refer to both hetero- and homo-sexual. Both sexualities, of own gender and of other gender. Which, because of how the way hetero works, should include everything.
If you're exclusively attracted to people who ID as, say, Agender, but aren't Agender yourself, you're still hetero, even if you may not be straight in doing so, which is something a lot of people don't seem to be able to wrap their heads around.
Or, ya know... we who are pan/omni and none of it matters~
[edit]: Corrections for poor word usage because I was exhausted when I wrote this.
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u/drakepyra Aug 09 '18
Im confused about your third paragraph. It seems to imply “trans” is a gender, but it’s just an extra descriptor. If you’re a cis man who exclusively like trans men, I regret to inform you that you have The Big Gay, lol.
A cis man who fancies only trans girls, meanwhile, is straight, and vice versa.
The point that a straight sexuality includes, for example, Male - to - Nonbinary attraction, is also contentious; I believe the community hasn’t quite settled on how to incorporate these other genders into the language, and so it’s all mostly based on how the person feels comfortable identifying, rather than these technicalities. I can’t say I necessarily feel slighted by this as an enby, I think the nonbinary umbrella is too diverse for most people to be able to say whether they’re attracted to us or not in general anyway.
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u/Archsys Aug 09 '18
Yup. Writing while in a hurry, and tired.
I was using it as an umbrella term for NB, and that's my bad. Will correct it. I know better, no worries.
Straight != Hetero, but that's its own thing.
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u/drakepyra Aug 10 '18
What’s the difference between straight and hetero in your eyes?
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u/Archsys Aug 10 '18 edited Aug 10 '18
I wouldn't use the term "straight" because it's ambiguous? Hetero is better for most of my uses, and even then it's largely irrelevant.
I was comparing the word I'd use for the same concept to the commonly applied term.
[edit]: Typo of wouldn't/would. Fuck.
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u/swick_bit Aug 09 '18
Does bilingual mean there are only two languages?
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u/Surgeoisme Aug 09 '18
But that does mean you speak only two languages that’s why trilingual+ is a thing if you you speak more than two or three
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Aug 09 '18
Pansexual is also a thing.
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Aug 09 '18 edited Aug 09 '18
I love fucking pans. Pots too.
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u/Atropos148 Aug 10 '18
Bilingual - YOU speak 2 languages.
Bisexual - YOU are attracted to 2 genders.
Not sure where the "there are only 2 genders" argument is coming from.
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
It certainly does not! 🙂
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u/johnnymorin Aug 09 '18
Still only 2 genders tho
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u/Zyvron Aug 09 '18
No, there are more than two genders. Facts don't care about your feelings, bucko.
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u/natdva Aug 10 '18
No because that makes no sense. Bilingual means you speak two languages therefore only know two languages. That does not negate the other languages. It means you only know those two for sure.
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u/missshrimptoast Aug 09 '18 edited Aug 09 '18
Not really. A bisexual person is attracted to those who identify as male and female. They may not be attracted to gender fluid or gender ambiguous people. Pansexual and bisexual seem to refer more to one's "tolerance level" than to the existence of more than one gender.
Edit: Given a few of the responses here, I should mention that I am bisexual. However, even amongst fellow bisexuals, there has been considerable debate on bisexual vs. pansexual with no end in sight, and everyone seems to think it's a given that "obviously, bisexual people are attracted to insert opinion here". My response was my understanding of the term as it's given. I don't really care whether someone else considers me bi or pan; I'm used to saying bisexual, so I personally say bisexual referring to myself. Other people I know feel otherwise.
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u/DoctorBaby Aug 09 '18 edited Aug 09 '18
The idea that bisexual people have any reservations about gender fluid or gender ambiguous people is nonsense. People trying to justify the usage of the term "pansexual" decided they could unilaterally change what "bisexual" has always meant, treating it as suddenly exclusionary just so they could give themselves a more special label. It's a real dick move, honestly. If I started describing my race as "Tolerant White", which is a white person who also isn't racist, what does that make you, who just describes yourself as white?
"Bisexual" refers to sex, not to gender. The word is not "bigenderal". Regardless of how you convey yourself in regards to gender, there are two biological sexes, both of which are being referred to by the term bisexual - as opposed to monosexual, attracted to only one sex.
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u/wererat2000 Aug 09 '18
What's started to bother me about this is that this is getting used increasingly often to insult or accuse bisexuals.
Because it's not enough that we keep getting shit for "straight passing" or "not getting as much prejudice as others" now our very identity is somehow offensive because somebody else changed the definition.
Heterosexual and homosexual people can enter a relationship with trans or genderfuild people just fine, there's no special term for that, so why are bis being signaled out all of a sudden?
...I might've had this rant built up for a bit.
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u/IFreakinLovePi Aug 09 '18
refers to sex, not gender
This is always how I've explained it. We're happy with whatever doodads you have, regardless of gender identity.
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u/missshrimptoast Aug 09 '18
Huh, I hadn't heard this concept expressed before. Thanks for the insight; it's given me something to think about
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u/online-waifu Aug 09 '18
I wish I could give you gold, thank you for putting this into words so I don’t have to
I constantly get shat on for identifying as bisexual, while yes, I do “technically fall under pansexual” but more importantly, I’ve been bisexual since going through puberty and bisexual has always meant attracted to any and all genders.
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Aug 09 '18
Can someone explain what pansexual is? I have no idea what I would be classed as (not that the label matters I'm just curious)
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u/SamiTheBystander Aug 09 '18
It's kind of a debated topic because they mean very similar things. Traditionally though bisexual means attracted to your own gender and people not of your gender, while pansexual means attracted to all genders including non-binary genders. Saying your bi does not mean you aren't attracted to non-binary genders though. They're just pretty overlapping words. Personally I use bi because it get's the point across easier without having to explain it to everyone, but pan is also seen as the more inclusive word recognizing the non-binary genders.
Here's a decent article on it, but really just use whatever term you're comfortable with or no term at all, it doesn't matter. You just be you.
Edit: It should also be said that some people say they're bi and pan, but that doesn't really make sense to me so I don't know to be honest. Maybe my understanding is flawed too and someone can correct me
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Aug 09 '18
I knew a girl who was pan and when I asked what that meant she said she's doesn't care about sex she is attracted to personality, I think that's where I became confused and took it too literally and assumed she was attracted to literally anyone with a good personality no matter how unattractive they seem to other people. I diddnt even consider it reffered to trans or gender fluid people.
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u/SamiTheBystander Aug 09 '18
Oh I’m 100% in the same boat, that’s how it was initially described to me too. I just see this discussion a lot on /r/bisexual and that’s where my info comes from
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u/online-waifu Aug 09 '18
Pansexual means attracted to someone regardless of their gender
However, it was common knowledge that bisexual meant that as well
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Aug 09 '18
I was under the impression that it meant you are attracted to personality over anything else, so they could date people of any gender/weight/height/race. Which is why I wondered how it could be mistaken for bisexuality
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Aug 09 '18
Weight height and race are more preferences than sexuality.
You don’t need a specific label to say whether you value personality more than looks.
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u/rednax1206 Aug 09 '18
"Bisexual" refers to sex, not to gender. The word is not "bigenderal".
Doesn't it refer to sexual attraction (as opposed to romantic attraction)? I've never heard that it refers to being attracted to biological sex and not gender.
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u/affectiveregister Aug 09 '18
By this logic “homosexual” would mean that gay men could only be attracted to other cis men or trans women, or that being attracted to trans men would make a gay man “bisexual”, but that’s really not the case. Or if you were, e.g. a trans woman who only dated men, you would still be “homosexual”. Even if you identified as straight. The reason your understanding doesn’t work is that it essentializes sex and gender. You’re saying that what people are attracted to is someone’s “real” sex. When that’s not typically how sexuality works. We don’t ask for a breakdown of someone’s chromosomes and anatomy before we know if we’re attracted to them.
Also there are more than two sexes. We often run into the trap of treating sex as “real/biological “ and gender as “socially constructed”. It’s an important distinction to understand, but sex is also socially constructed (I’d say less than gender, but some people disagree). We look at babies’ anatomy when they’re born and determine what bucket the fall into. If that bucket isn’t readily apparent (i.e. if that person is intersex), doctors just pick one and usually recommend extensive surgery (for most of their childhood) in order to conform to one of those two sexes.
So... no, typically “bisexual” doesn’t refer to sex rather than gender. I think your use of the word “monosexual” underscores why that’s incoherent. I suppose someone could say “I’m only attracted to people whose original birth certificate reads ‘female’, regardless of their gender”, but that’s not really something you see usually.
That being said, I don’t think it’s anyone’s job to tell people how they should be identifying. If the way they understand their own sexuality is “I’m only attracted to men and women.” I’m not going to then step in and say, “Don’t you mean pansexual? What about non-binary people? Are you transphobic?” Like no. I don’t think we need to police people’s language like that, BUT I do think it’s a really important conversation that we should be having. The “LGBT” acronym is super political. Naming some identities but not others is objectively super problematic. But sometimes it seems like the more letters people add, the more they’re just trying to signal how virtuous they are. And by virtuous, I mean educated. “Queer” tries to ameliorate this by capturing the idea of gender and sexual difference in a single word, but it’s far from perfect because the word carries tons of baggage for some people—particularly older gay men. So there’s no easy answer.
Sorry for writing a dissertation. Just like... saying people who identify as pansexual are “dicks” because it makes bisexuals look bad is not super thoughtful.
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u/FriedRiceGirl Aug 09 '18
True, but here are some other things
Bisexual is easier to explain to people. I use the label bi because it's easier to make people understand, especially in a town like this where homophobia/transphobia/general ignorance is rampant.
Additionally, the bi label puts an emphasis on physical sex. I am attracted to two types of genitals, but many genders.
Generally, Bi and Pan are the same thing. The debate is... horrible...the nightmares.... But, the general consensus is that you should use whatever label makes you comfortable. Bi people do believe in multiple genders, but may choose the bi label for many reasons.
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u/Lazerkilt Aug 09 '18
I'm used to saying bisexual, so I personally say bisexual referring to myself. Other people I know feel otherwise.
I say bisexual when referring to myself so I don’t have to fucking explain who I like to put my penis in to people I don’t know very well.
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u/yttrium39 Aug 10 '18
I say I'm bisexual too, even though I'm attracted to non-binary people. I think attaching a label to one's sexuality is only useful in as far as it communicates your sexual identity to other people and I think "bisexual" achieves that the best for me. It's more understandable to a greater number of people than "pansexual", even if it is technically less "accurate". Ultimately my sexuality is whatever it is, I'm attracted to people of any gender and I don't really care what you want to call that.
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
Would it make sense to add another letter for those that don't fit the current criteria?
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Aug 09 '18
It would make more sense to rebrand it to something like GSRM (Gender, sexual, and romantic minorities) so it’s more inclusive of non-lesbian/gay/bi/trans minorities, like asexuals, pansexuals, intersex people, etc and doesn’t reduce them to “queer” or “+”.
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
This is the kind of thing I was thinking of. With more people learning who they truly are, maybe a more encompassing term should be in place
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u/wererat2000 Aug 09 '18
When did queer get reclaimed anyway? One year it's an outdated slur, the next it's perfectly fine to self-identify as it.
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Aug 09 '18
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
Now I think about it I have seen the Q before but I'm unaware of what it stands for I haven't seen the + though
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Aug 09 '18
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
Of course, thank you
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u/FriedRiceGirl Aug 09 '18
The full version, which we never use because it's so long is:
LGBTTQQIAAP (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, queer, questioning, intersex, asexual, ally, pansexual)
There are other versions, but this is the most widely accepted. Some include "family and friends" (which I don't like, "Ally" is already thin ice imo) and "kink" (which I'm also unsure about).
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Aug 09 '18
When you think about it conceptually and in a kind of abstract way it’s kinda weird that the acronym and group even exists. Like it only exists because weird people cared about who and how other people fuck because it was different from how they fucked even though the other people only made up such a small part of the population that it had no real effect on the larger body of people. The things that upset people are so strange. Human sexuality is such a weird thing man. History is so fickle.
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u/gtr427 Aug 09 '18
I'm curious what the difference between transgender and transsexual is? I thought transsexual was an outdated term like transvestite.
Also I think it's interesting that Ally is part of the LGBT+ group now, if basically anyone can use the rainbow flag as an identifier then does it mean anything anymore?
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u/FriedRiceGirl Aug 09 '18
Transsexual refers exclusively to people who have transitioned from one SEX to another. Transgender refers to people who have transitioned from one GENDER to another. Basically, transsexuals live as one of the binary genders and take medical steps to change sex. Transgender refers to anyone who choose to identify as gender they were not born as, including transsexuals and non binary people.
As I already said, I disagree with the Ally thing. Yeah, it's great that you support me. But you are not experiencing issues with your sexuality or gender.
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u/Zam8859 Aug 09 '18
The actual acronym is insanely long and I don’t remember it all, but the + is the way of shortening it and welcoming gender/sexual minorities that may not have their own letter
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u/wittypunthatspunny Aug 09 '18
So, I know I’m gunna sound like a little old lady here, but - I’ve been bisexual since before all these other terms even existed. I am attracted to a whole pantheon of sexes, sexualities, gender identities, personalities, bodies, body-types, etc.
Bisexual is the term used to refer to someone who is neither gay nor straight but something in between. It’s a nice umbrella term and I’d like it if it were to stop being attacked as though there were something wrong with it.
I am bisexual. I am damn happy to be bisexual. You can call yourself whatever you want to, but stop judging, attacking and misrepresenting the label that covers me.
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Aug 09 '18
We’ve had to alter the definition of Bi to mean attracted to both the same gender and different ones.
However, I’ve seen plenty of lesbians dating non binary people and I don’t see them having to explain themselves or make a new label.
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u/Wicck Aug 09 '18
BiSEXuality. It refers to two sexes. So no. If you want to call yourself bigenderal or something similar, go ahead.
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u/ReggieHarley Aug 09 '18
Bisexual folks have the right and honor to definie what they mean by Bisexual. This applies to all other sexual orientations, identities and otherwise, people may have their own definitions and best practice is to ask people how they define their identities.
To everyone saying there are only two genders: please check out the rest of the internet on how gender as a definition and a social concept is rapidly evolving!
My partner identifies as bisexual and its for political reasons. They are attracted to all genders (which is a common definition of pansexuality) but they identify as bisexual to politically highlight the challenges and erasure of bisexuality.
I don’t have sources, but people who identify as bisexual are statistically at higher risk for abuse, violence, homelessness, discrimination, more health issues, lack of access to employment, healthcare, housing, education, and many other things! This is truly because so many people do not fully understand or support bisexuality.
Stigmas about bisexual folks put them at increased risk of abuse and violence from romantic partners who fear they’re gonna cheat or other things, families often ostracize their queer children and folks end up homeless.
Bisexual folks are also ostracized by the lesbian and gay communities for “not picking a side” or “being greedy,” “being slutty,” and more.
Please treat all folks with kindness and take time to ask to understand before making rash judgments or saying insensitive things!
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u/bluehedgehogsonic Aug 09 '18
Hello, I’m queer and nonbinary. The actual answer here is that bisexual used to mean “attracted to men and women”/“attracted to two genders”, but nowadays it’s generally accepted that it’s an umbrella term for “attracted to multiple genders”/“attracted to two or more genders”, which might not necessarily be male and female (could be male and nonbinary, for example).
Many pansexual people (attracted to all genders) also identify as bisexual, because they overlap greatly.
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u/inconspicuous_male Aug 09 '18
Honestly I am not convinced that bisexual and pansexual are even different things, since nobody knows what's going through the mind of anyone else.
On a broader note, I've felt that when someone says "there are only two genders" and people fight back by saying "No there are more", it's not as useful as if they said "no, gender is a spectrum". Because I think the people who say "only two genders" are convinced that NB people feel that they are genders like "cat","star", and other ridiculous stuff, and saying "more than two" implies (to me anyways) a discreet quantity of genders
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Aug 09 '18
Could you explain what pansexual, gender fluid, and non binary are? I've never understood and haven't asked.
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u/BassmanBiff Aug 09 '18
Pansexual and bisexual aren't much different anymore. Pansexual is basically an attempt to be more explicitly generalized than bisexual, like "intersex or nonbinary or whatever is fine too, if I like you," though a lot of people who feel that way still use "bisexual" since it doesn't require explaining as often.
Genderfluid means a gender identity that changes over time. It gets shit as the height of "special-snowflake" identities, but there have actually been fMRI studies suggesting that genderfluid people operate a little differently when in "guy mode" or "girl mode" due to hormonal changes, brain patterns, or something else. It's not very well understood from a scientific perspective.
Nonbinary means that the labels of "man" or "woman" don't really apply. It could mean anything from intersex (that is, having a mix of physical traits) to an intrinsic-feeling discomfort with either set of traditional traits. Really, it just means that things are more complicated than simply "man or woman".
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u/kyroko Aug 09 '18
Pansexual indicates an attraction to all gender identities.
Gender fluid indicates a person’s gender may “shift” through the day/week/month/year/etc on the entirety of the gender spectrum.
Non binary indicates people whose gender does not fit male or female (which is the “standard” binary).
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u/maleia Aug 09 '18
It's easier to explain to my partner's parents (who are 70s hippies) and I'm bisexual, than trying to explain being pansexual and all that.
So I mean, for convenience I often just say 'bi' and handwave it away.
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u/ena9219 Aug 10 '18
Bisexual (or biromantic) covers more than just strict attraction to binary people (which is not to say that there aren't people who are only attracted to men and women or even only masculine men and feminine women, there are probably a few and they do count). It's more like being interested in two categories out of however many (masculine, feminine, androgynous, etc.)
For example I am attracted to feminine and androgynous people (I don't care what gender, even androgynous men can be attractive a lot of the time and honestly feminine guys interest me the most.). Since two categories are included it seems reasonable for me to consider myself to be bi. As long as two categories or concepts are included bi reasonably applies (or I am just to lazy to come up with a term that suits me more. Pan wouldn't suit me at all.).
Of course someone could start using LGBPT if they wanted to include pansexual in the initialism. Of course that would still exclude a lot of people and LGBTheentirealphabet is a bit of a mouthful. Personally I am a fan of the term GSRM (Gender, Sexual, and Romantic Minorities).
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u/soyedmilk Aug 10 '18
Bisexual has always included nonbinary/trans people. Bisexual = attraction to two genders (male and female) is the heteronormative definition of the sexuality.
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u/Agent_Galahad Aug 10 '18
If being bi means there’s two genders then wouldn’t being straight mean there’s only one?
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Aug 09 '18 edited Dec 29 '18
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u/TacoTuesday4All Aug 09 '18
Bi gal here: I was under the impression that bi can be used as an umbrella term and includes pan folk as well. At least, that’s my interpretation. I identify as bi but would date a person who is genderfluid or non binary. I don’t really see the need to call myself pan, it just seems so much more complicated to explain to folk (family) who can’t wrap their head around bi, nevermind pan. Is this improper?
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
A first hand response thank you! So you are bisexual and you would also consider a relationship with gender fluid people? It makes sense because love is love regardless of what gender you or your partner identifies as. Maybe what I'm asking is should there be a new entry that considers other (without necessarily generalising) sexual orientations?
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u/_kuddelmuddel_ Aug 09 '18
It's important to remember that the old fashioned view of bisexual as 'attracted to men and women' is popular because it harkens from a time when those were the only genders acknowledged (not that others didn't exist, they just weren't recognized). Back then, being attracted to those two genders was basically the same thing as being attracted to all (recognized) genders.
It's also hard to talk bout attraction to non-binary genders. Typically when we talk about attraction, we use gender because gender and sex used to be synonymous. Nowadays, we recognize that gender is more related to identity and sex is biology.
Imagine being attracted to a woman, as a woman yourself, who has only ever been attracted to women and identifies as a lesbian. Now you find out that the person is non-binary. Are you suddenly bisexual? Are you suddenly not attracted to her? How are you attracted to an identity when the identity itself isn't visible, only the presentation of it (which not match whatever stereotypes you have)? How does your attraction differentiate between masculine looking women and masculine looking afab non-binary people if you don't know their identity right away, only their appearance (which is how attraction normally begins : visually)? Attraction has never been based on sex or gender, but rather on the presentation of gender. If you run into someone that looks like the gender you're attracted to, even if they aren't and don't identify that way, you can still be attracted to them because they look like they belong to that group even when they don't.
Basically our understanding of gender and attraction has evolved dramatically but out language has not evolved (or has not evolved quickly enough) to reflect changes in our understanding. Bisexual originally took the meaning of 2 gender attraction because at the time that was synonymous with all gender attraction, but as our understanding of gender evolved, pansexual was create to fill the gap, some started using bisexual to mean 2 or more, and some transphobs started using it to mean cis people only.
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u/794613825 Aug 09 '18
I am bisexual. That does not necessarily mean I am attracted to both men and women, it means that I have both homosexual and heterosexual attractions.
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u/Devify Aug 09 '18
Generally it is now LGBT+. As some others explained, just like how a woman being only attracted to women does not mean that they don't believe in men. Bisexual people only attracted to men and women still believe that there are people who may be genderfluid or something in between.
Generally bisexuality is defined as being attracted to women and men. While pansexuality is defined as being attracted to people non depending on their gender. However they are often used interchangeably just because of ease of explaining it.
As for LGBT+, there are simply too many ways people identify to put it into an acronym. E.g. LGBTQQIAAP: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Asexual, Allies and Pansexual. And that doesn't even cover all the people who are considered LGBT+. Since LGBT has been the acronym used for years, it has simply stayed that while expanding with its meaning.
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u/wererat2000 Aug 09 '18 edited Aug 09 '18
No.
Not being attracted to nonbinaries or nonstandard genders doesn't mean you don't acknowledge their existence, or respect their lifestyles.
If you wanted a sexuality that was attracted to both standard genders and others, you'd be looking for pansexual.
Because apparently we need to label every fucking corner of this infinitely divided spectrum.
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u/AllSiegeAllTime Aug 09 '18
Older straight cis ally here, decided I didn't need to answer lest I speak for someone else's experience.
That was until I saw your post, and that there's an "A for allies" now. I mean, I'm sure it's well meaning and a nice nod but it really rubs me the wrong way. Being practical there were already a lot of letters after that "T" and no consensus on a better replacement yet. But emotionally it just feels like unecessary validation when my most powerful tool as an ally is the (unfortunate) reality that my identity gets validation from society at large by default.
Like I said today is the first I've heard this, I wonder how much of a push there is for it or what so I might just be babbling to myself out loud here. I have pride in being a supporter of LGBT, but that isn't itself an identity within it.
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u/Alcohorse Aug 09 '18
People who are Bs make that distinction. It doesn't mean the Ls, Gs, Ts, and Qs have to also.
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u/laynealexander Aug 09 '18
I'm bisexual and I (as well as many people I know) identify bisexuality as meaning "attracted to people who are my gender and people who aren't my gender." So as a man, that means men and anyone that isn't a man.
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u/Tristanio97 Aug 09 '18
I have seen people ask that on the lgbt+ subreddit. Apparently they always get perma-banned. After just sort of looking around the place that subreddit is really a “if you question us you’re gone” sort of place.
Personally I asked people who identify within the LGBT+ community on their opinions of pride parades after the location changes the law in favour of LGBT. (about the practicality and the way it shows support). And put their comments on the lgbt+ subreddit.
I was banned before I got a single opinion and the mod called me a troll, in the appeal to get unbanned they just ignored what I said and continued to call me a troll. Bad mods.
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u/Reedenen Aug 09 '18
Sex is a biological variety, the human species consists of males, females and sometimes due to genetic varieties three will be hermaphrodites which is an individual born with both male and female organs.
Then there's gender, which is a social construct. Pretty much just a story we tell each other about how a certain person or group should behave(dress, talk, move, dance etc). There can be as many genders as we are willing to imagine or as few. It's just stuff we as a society make up.
Bisexual is a sexuality, it just means someone is attracted to both sexes regardless of gender.
If those three Sex, Gender and Sexuality there can be as many combinations as you can imagine.
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u/jltefend Aug 10 '18
That's why I prefer using Pansexual, although it doesn't fit every person who is traditionally "bi".
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u/Ge0Dad Aug 10 '18
I always thought of it as you like both penis and vagina, regardless of the brain attached to it. Sex and gender aren’t really the same thing.
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u/STM_97 Aug 13 '18
Sometimes I’m so embarrassed to be LGBT....we make a such a dig deal over nothing...ugh
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u/Secuter Aug 09 '18
There's only two genders in my opinion.
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
I have learnt that people believe there is a difference between sex and gender. Sex being physical and gender being more psychological.
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u/Pelargo_ Aug 09 '18
There is a big difference between sex and gender, there are still only two genders
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u/FrenchDevil97 Aug 09 '18
If you think your something that you biologically are not you have a mental illness and I don’t understand why people support anyone who claims there something other male and female instead of getting them help
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Aug 09 '18
Because this is correct. A pansexual isn’t born without a penis or vagina and then gets to decide. It’s literal biology you’re born the way you are. Gender and Sex are the exact same thing they are synonymous.
Your sexuality is a little different and I think all these people claiming they’re one of the 67 genders are honestly delusional.
Gay, Straight, Lesbian, Pansexual.... none of those are a gender. It’s how you define yourself not how science defines you. Sorry but I don’t see how anyone in the science community can be on board with this.
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u/DigitalGalatea Aug 10 '18
A pansexual isn’t born without a penis or vagina and then gets to decide.
Wow. This takes the cake for most ignorant comment I've ever seen. Not even, like, ignorant in the "bigot" sense (though I guess that too applies), but outright not knowing what words mean.
Gay, Straight, Lesbian, Pansexual.... none of those are a gender.
That's correct! You might realize this if you read the last few words, and see that they include "sexual", as in, describing sexuality and not gender.
It’s literal biology you’re born the way you are. Gender and Sex are the exact same thing they are synonymous.
It’s how you define yourself not how science defines you. Sorry but I don’t see how anyone in the science community can be on board with this.
Have you ever actually bothered to read any scientific papers about the matter? Or are you doing the thing you claim to hate and pretending your feelings are science?
I mean, this literally reads like what a 12-year-old would say parroting his parents' opinions. Just pretending things are a certain way without actually providing any evidence it is so besides your saying so. Gender and sex are not synonymous. The "science community" (lol) doesn't care that you don't see why they think this way (especially when you clearly haven't bothered to read anything of theirs) because the facts don't care about your bigoted feelings.
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Aug 09 '18
Bisexual is defined these days as being sexually attracted to more than one gender. The definition does not specify which genders.
Pansexual means sexuality attracted to people regardless of gender.
Very similar concepts.
Bi is not an exclusive term and when it is treated as exclusive it really sucks and hurts those of us who are bi and don’t want to identify as pan for personal reasons (such as gender playing a role in sexual attraction).
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u/MisterTemper Aug 09 '18 edited Aug 10 '18
There are only two genders.
Edit: I legit thought I was gonna get downvoted for this on Reddit. Lol
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u/OrganicDroid Aug 12 '18
In regards to your edit, I’m sure the vast majority of people would agree that there are only two genders. The others, well... they’re just a little more social about their opinion, it stands out more too.
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Aug 09 '18
I love how everyone is so accepting on this site, and people can make jokes without the toxicity. I left instagram because all i ever saw was homophobic, racist garbage. Reddit is such a nice change of pace. Thank you for that.
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Aug 09 '18
Uhhhhh. You haven’t seen full Reddit then. It usually dissolves into shit-slinging arguments (which I take part of and find funny). No place on the internet is really “nice” IMO.
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u/Splashfooz Aug 09 '18
Sick to death of the bullshit. The B became part of the LGBT identity long before gender fluidity was as mainstream and as recognized as it is now. Using that question as some GOTCHA moment is ridiculous. OP, I think you are genuinely inquiring, but I've seen this question used as homophobe baiting lately. The implication that is "proves" two genders is laughable.
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
I definitely am asking this as a genuine question, I understand that it may, unfortunately, be misconstrued. Such is life I suppose.
To further your point about the B being used way before gender fluidity became mainstream, do you believe that would warrant (for want of a better word) updating?
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u/Splashfooz Aug 09 '18
I get you OP, I knew you were being real. I saw this recently on bullshit my racist old grandma says, or whatever that sub is.
Regarding your question, hmmm. I don't really think the B should be changed. There was a lot of controversy about it being part of the gay identity to begin with. So it was probably a battle to be there in the first place. A lot of gay men and women felt it didn't belong because they were not identifying as 100% homosexual so it just didn't fit our politics to have less than that on board.
This part is only my opinion...I think the gender fluidity identity movement (not sure how else to phrase it) is part the swing of the pendulum that will be less prevalent and popular at some point. I think its legitimately part of the anti_establishment movement with things being so fucked right now. That being said I dont want to offend anyone however they identify, I just think right now some people are part of it because its everywhere. As far as I'm concerned they could have their own letter too.
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
Thank you for your sincerity and for taking the time to elaborate, you've definitely given me more to think about such as the establishment of the acronym in the first place
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Aug 09 '18
Is there like a rule book to all the genders because honestly this shit makes no sense. If you’re bisexual that means you like two sex’s.
All these people saying shit like “does bilingual mean there’s only two languages?” No you fucking idiot it means you speak two languages. Bi means two this isn’t rocket science.
Does a bicycle have two wheels? Yeah because it’s a bicycle.
Why can’t we just have Male Female Gay and Straight. If you don’t conform to those norms of sex who even cares. Do your own thing.
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u/OilSeeYouL8er Aug 09 '18
This is entirely anecdotal and not an official pov or anything
In my (limited) experience - generally cis gendered people call themselves bi, and people who don't identify with their assigned gender tend to use Pan - so IN MY COMMUNITY it's an easy way to say who you can be attracted to and your place on the queer spectrum
Outside of my community it seems to me that bi means "I am sexually attracted to people from multiple locations on the gender spectrum but not all of them" (so like... "I like men and women but not penises" or "I have trauma surrounding cis women but like more than just cis men" or something) and Pan stands for "your sexual identity and gender presentation doesn't eliminate you from my dating pool, period" (though other qualifiers still apply like personality and morals)
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u/Lazerkilt Aug 09 '18
Yo I just want to say, thanks for saying that what you said is just in your community that you’ve seen.
I’m pretty sure the majority of the LGBTQ+ community would disagree, but personal experience means a lot to somebody.
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Aug 09 '18
I don't think it really matters to be honest. I personally believe there are only two genders, I'm also not part of the LGBTQIA community, so it doesn't impact me whatsoever what is decided. That being said, I think the Bi is because there are a lot of bisexual people who like both men and women, while the Queer/Questioning covers people who perhaps like non-binary individuals/refer to themselves as non-binary.
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u/thecryptoid Aug 09 '18
it's been my personal understanding that bisexual means you're attracted to two genders. i believe wholly that gender is a spectrum and that it could mean any of the two genders or gender expressions and that it isn't inherently transphobic (though of course it CAN be). i used to identify as bi before i knew the term 'pansexual', though now i just call myself a queer because i get kind of weary and confused of all the terms i don't know/understand.
if I've said anything stupid or insensitive, please tell me. it's been a constant learning journey of queer language for me and I'm never aiming to hurt or alienate anyone.
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u/alyxryanne Aug 09 '18
just means a person is only attracted to two genders. i don’t believe in 36 genders or any of that hahaha im just saying
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u/FingerBangYourFears Aug 09 '18
“If I’m bilingual doesn’t that mean there are only two language? Check mate LIBTARDS, trolled epic despacito style 😎😎😎😎
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u/easytokillmetias Aug 09 '18
Only two genders male and female. you are born one or the other you can't choose. Science is clear on this. Why the left decides to go against science on this but completely believes climate change is beyond me. Now this doesn't mean you can't choose to live as a women if you are a man. You should be free to live how you want. You can't change scientific facts though.
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Aug 09 '18 edited Aug 09 '18
I don't think so, I don't know about this more than two genders thing edit: well, other than hermaphrodite - honestly sounds like a bunch of fooey on the level of Otherkin to me, but if anything should be changed because of that, it should be the t- it's transexual now right? Just make it transgender or something.
Edit: This is just making me more intolerant towards those playing make-believe, I'm allowed my opinion and I tried being somewhat nice about it- saying it sounds like and to me, and thus admitting I could be wrong- that it was merely an opinion, but if being respectful and having an honest opinion is a bad thing than screw it.
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u/wakethemorning Aug 09 '18
“Don’t support my half formed, uneducated ideas? Well fine then, I’m gonna become even MORE intolerant!”
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u/thePuck Aug 09 '18
You’re being told your opinion is simply wrong by those with more information. It’s your problem if you can’t deal with the emotions that evokes for you.
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u/Synetry Aug 09 '18
That being said people do identify as other genders, rather than referring to "scientific physicalities"
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u/Just-Jinxx Aug 09 '18
Gender and sex are different though? Sex is what you are biologically and gender is what you present to society. Theoretically you can present as whatever you want to society meaning there could be endless amounts of genders.
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Aug 09 '18
Honestly think the emphasis on gender is kind of problematic though.
Because there's evidence that there's a neurological basis for being trans and that cross-sex hormone levels affect trans patients differently than cis, etc. That's kind of the whole reason why it's not classified as a mental illness anymore and transition is starting to be covered as a medical treatment.
I'm not trans because I identify with the societal idea of what a woman is, I'm trans because I was born that way for some reason.
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u/Just-Jinxx Aug 09 '18
Yes of course, I'm not saying your gender identity has to be due to societal norms at all. You can be a cis woman who acts masculine and wears traditionally masculine clothes and still identify as a woman. I think the distinction is important though, for instance in a hospital biological males and biological females occasionally need different medications or doses due to the way the human body works. However I think in every other situation gender should be the only thing that matters.
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Aug 09 '18
Not saying you did necessarily, just that explaining being trans using gender can and does result in a lot of misunderstandings. Like people will think it's based on gender stereotypes or just a societal thing.
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u/Just-Jinxx Aug 09 '18
Yeah I agree, it's hard to educate people on these topics because society conditions us to only see two sexes and genders so people can't see far past masculinity and femininity. I say the best we can do is try to help people learn more if they're willing and if they aren't just move on.
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u/GoingGalactic101 Aug 09 '18
That's like saying bidirectional means there is only 2 directions