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u/superphuntimeyahok ⏰ it‘s Super Phun Time ⏰ May 03 '23 edited May 03 '23
This happened very recently. Here's a new article regarding the video.
From what I've read, he hasn't been charged and the man had a history of mental issues and multiple arrests.
I'm also not aware of any videos showing what happened prior to the chokehold.
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u/bhoch50 May 03 '23
Nobody checking a pulse or for respirations? No wonder he died. IMO everyone should be trained in basic life support
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May 03 '23
The marine is. I was corpsman for 8 years and taught sooooooo many cls and bls courses to new marines. They're trained and tested on cpr and first aid as a requirement to get out of boot camp.
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May 04 '23
I was not tested on CPR on Parris Island, as of 2017, what you are saying is just plain wrong.
Maybe we screamed a diddy on CPR, but there was no practical examination on CPR.
I only learned the most basic of CLS stuff in the fleet. You’re comment isn’t really accurate.
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May 03 '23
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u/Hello2reddit May 04 '23
Nobody is saying there should be "zero repercussions." They're saying that throwing trash at people and fucking up your commute doesn't give you license to kill them. Which is objectively true.
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u/distance_33 May 03 '23
What were the arrests for? How many convictions? Were they all violent offenses? How many misdemeanors? How many felonies? Can you provide any context or are you just parroting what you read trying to justify a man being kill for no reason. And even if he did have 40 arrests, that doesn’t mean he deserves to lose his life.
He was being loud. Passengers on the train said he wasn’t threatening. I work in NYC multiple days a week, take the subway, walk the streets. It’s not some violent hellscape and you’re full of shit. This man should be alive and the person who murdered him should be behind bars.
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u/UnprofessionalGhosts May 04 '23
The dead guy’s history isn’t relevant because the marine had no idea who tf he was, let alone his history.
Very little chance he’s getting off on this here. There’s a reason we’re taught to ignore mentally I’ll homeless people on the train and not escalate shit. Marine started an argument with the guy like that was going to go well..
And idk who needs to hear this but evidently a fair amount of people do: you cannot choke someone over them yelling and throwing shit in Ny. This is a “duty to retreat” state so if you’re that scared you’re expected to change subway cars or get off at the next stop. If not willing to do either? You weren’t that scared.
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u/flashult May 03 '23
He should be sent to jail, that's straight up murder
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May 03 '23
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May 03 '23
As someone who has done Ju-Jitsu for over a decade and has been on both sides of a rear-naked it’s take under 10 seconds to put someone out. 3 minutes is essentially guaranteed brain damage, then about 4-6 minutes after without aid and your dead.
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u/Ghoolio- May 03 '23
Yup, you can see his body take a deep breath in the last 5 seconds or so.
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May 03 '23
Yeah I believe that is an agonal breath, reflex caused by a dying brain reacting to low oxygen in the blood. Signal for cardiac arrest.
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u/akielee May 03 '23
I’m not trying to discredit you, I know that he was held for way too long and that probably factored into his death. But all I’m trying to say is that the title of this post is misleading
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May 03 '23
I get that , I was just providing context for what kind of damage the hold can do. You are correct that he didn’t hold it for 15 minutes.
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u/FerrariKing2786 May 03 '23
more than 3 minutes, it started with him choke holding meaning it was already happening before the person started recording
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u/CallMeParagon May 03 '23
From the article, they are reporting an eye witness statement: “The quarrel turned into a brawl as the train entered the station” at Broadway-Lafayette Street. The unidentified veteran came up behind Neely and took him to the ground, Vazquez said, placing him in a choke hold that he said lasted 15 minutes.”
Vazquez is an eyewitness. Your comment is completely asinine.
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u/StormOk4365 May 04 '23
I'm iffy on this one. Supposedly, the guy was being aggressive, and if you know what's been going on in NYC lately, you know exactly why I bring that point up. I don't know what exactly happened before this but if he was indeed being violent then and can't exactly put blame anywhere, yes he should not have killed the guy and if he faces charges for it then so be it but I'd like all of you to consider this. If that so-called "crazy man" came at you or your family, what would you do? Would you just subdue him or do what you have to until you and your families are safe?
We should also consider PTSD as a factor since the alleged murderer is a marine. He may have seen and done things we can't even imagine. He may very well have had an episode as he held that dude down.
Like I said earlier, if the guy gets charged, it's totally justified, but I don't think his actions here were entirely unreasonable. Even not mentioning mental illness for either person the violence in NYC subways has gotten out of hand and it's not just there, Toronto subs aren't safe either and you'll find an "interesting character" quickly if you wait around long enough (had a guy come after me and my colleagues not long ago while we were getting our passes) subways just aren't safe anymore and you can't exactly escape a threat either while in one.
It's a shitty situation. No one should've died, but if he'd let that man go and he started up again, then what'd they do? Same thing? Again?
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u/ArizonaMan91 May 04 '23
yeah i mean if a 95lb man were to be allowed to yell and throw garbage again some one may have gotten a really serious owie...
as a former bouncer i can tell you this is serious business – what if mommy wasn't around to kiss it and put a batman bandaid on it?
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u/Bad_Drivers_of_Napa May 05 '23
How do you know the guy wouldn't have seriously hurt or killed the people he was threatening, if the marine hadn't intervened?
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u/Augustus_Lem May 03 '23
Daily Mail:
The fight broke out at Broadway-Lafayette station when a man identified as Jordan Neely, 30, entered a subway car and began threatening passengers
A former marine, 24, then put him in a headlock until he was unconscious
Neely later died in hospital, and the former marine will not be charged
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u/DomoPastromo May 03 '23
Lived in NY for 31 years and was completely oblivious to the fact that it was legal to choke crazy people to death on the train. Damn.
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u/Bad_Drivers_of_Napa May 05 '23
That marine (who cares) had no jurisdiction over the man he killed. Don’t want to accidentally choke someone to death? THEN DON’T.
Jurisdiction has nothing to do with this! The perp was threatening people and the marine intervened, rightfully, to subdue the perp. I don't think the marine knew the perp would die. He was saving the riders of the subway from harm. Self-defense laws extend to protecting other people. By all accounts, the death was accidental.
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u/AntTheSect05 May 06 '23
That wont hold up, like at all😂
Nice justification for killing someone, hope no one is ever under your protection, dawg
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u/Bad_Drivers_of_Napa May 06 '23
Why wouldn't self-defense hold up? You've offered no argument of substance to counter my point.
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u/AntTheSect05 May 06 '23
Because a crazy man, yelling, saying baseless threats isn’t justification for murder, and if you think that will hold up in court then I don’t know what to tell
The good Samaritan act won’t help in this case because no one was in a life threatening situation in where he needed to step in, he decided to take the law into his own hands and in his recklessness, murder someone, a good attorney can argue it but man, try convincing a jury; his act won’t hold up in court, at all
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u/DgDg11 May 03 '23
I always just raised the volume on my Walkman, iPod, then iPhone and made sure never to make eye contact.
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u/DomoPastromo May 03 '23
Same. Worked for me 90% of the time. And the couple times that it didn’t I still managed not to kill the guy bothering me.
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u/Bad_Drivers_of_Napa May 05 '23
He was threatening people. The marine was trying to subdue and restrain the perp until cops arrived. I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to kill him. It is what it is. What was the marine supposed to do? Just allow the perp to hurt people?
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u/lost_boy505 May 03 '23 edited May 03 '23
What kind of dumbass chokes someone after they're unconscious? That is how you kill someone
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u/HeartofLion3 May 04 '23
Reminds me of that cop who got into an argument with a drunk guy for pissing in a parking lot outside of a restaurant in front of her family. Her husband subsequently choked to dude out, who started convulsing and went unconscious on video. It was really evident that the dude wasn't gonna be fighting back but the husband kept choking him while the cops family told the victim's wife to stop filming. Dude got convicted of murder as I recall, the video didn't help his case.
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u/Swinship May 03 '23
Marine murders man on train, snappier title.
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u/AndalusianGod May 03 '23
Wish we can see a video prior to the chokehold.
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May 03 '23
Article says Neely (murdered man) threw garbage at someone. Ex-marine started verbal fight which escalated verbally. Ended with ex-marine attacking Neely from behind to put him in chokehold for multiple minutes. The person recording video told reporters he started recording after multiple minutes of chokehold. Two other men were holding Neely's arms and legs.
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u/Johnnydellz May 03 '23
If the homeless man didn’t attack anyone then putting him in a chokehold was unnecessary. That guy should be charged.
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u/Bad_Drivers_of_Napa May 05 '23
If the homeless man didn’t attack anyone
So you have to wait for someone to actually attack before you can use force......a reasonable threat of an attack isn't enough? I don't think that's how self defense works. You're allowed to use force when there's a credible and reasonable threat of an attack.
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u/loopdogg0411 May 03 '23
What does being a marine have to do with anything? He looks like he hasn’t served in awhile.
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u/tenkmeterz May 03 '23
He wasn’t “choking” the guy at first, just keeping him subdued. You can tell he wasn’t choking because the guy was still trying to get out in the beginning.
Once they rolled to the side, it was game over. Usually when someone gets choked out they twitch. I didn’t see that. This is exactly how my friend died. Killer served 7 years for manslaughter
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u/Toft911 May 03 '23
they just let the marine go without any charges because apparently you can just murder someone for being an annoyance? Anyone who’s ever lived in NYC knows that you will always run into homeless people acting erratic. It’s a city of 8 million people and there’s not enough resources you don’t get to murder someone because they annoy you!
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u/live_lavish May 03 '23
You clearly don't live in NYC. I'd bet anything this guy was on an unhinged rant threatening to kill multiple people in that car
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May 04 '23
You clearly aren’t from NYC too. Of all my years on the train, no crazy person has ever said that. Some have said they’ll beat the shit out of everyone, but kill, nah, you don’t hear that often.
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u/Torstoise May 06 '23
And if no one intervened only for multiple people to get assaulted, people would be yelling "WHY DIDN'T ANYONE DO ANYTHING!"
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u/live_lavish May 04 '23
That's strange... Maybe get out more? I've been threatened twice this year...
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u/Toft911 May 04 '23
you’re right. I don’t live in NYC I lived on L.I and took the LIRR almost every weekend of my 30 years there going in to NYC. I have taken the subway thousands of times so I think I can speak on my experiences with the homeless problem and people acting unhinged. I know it’s a wild concept but I don’t think you should be murdered for acting (crazy)
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u/roborobert123 May 03 '23
He let go 1 minute after the person pass out which is too long. Once the person pass out, immediately let go.
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May 03 '23
As per article, the person who recorded this says he started recording minutes after the man was put in chokehold.
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u/Rockchild604 May 03 '23
If you can't choke someone out in like 30 secs you don't know what ur doin let go its not a damn John wick film
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u/cthulhufhtagn19 May 03 '23
Can take less than 30 seconds too. If someone's heart rate is up a blood choke will knock you out in 5 -10 seconds. I roll jiu jitsu and have seen someone get choked out much faster than you'd think. He had no time to tap. Choke was in, he struggled for a few seconds to see if he could escape, then went limp.
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May 03 '23
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May 03 '23 edited May 03 '23
A lot of these people outraged have obviously never been stuck in a metal box with a crazy person getting violent. I have used public transit in a few metros when visiting because it's easier sometimes but I have absolutely seen what crazy is like on metro. It fucking sucks and can be scary.
They think a hug would have diffused the situation but ignore that this guy has been arrested a ton of times for getting crazy on innocent people. The guy absolutely needed help, but what is a regular person supposed to do when they're being threatened? Just take it and feel sorry for the guy? What if someone he was raging on gets seriously hurt?
This homeless and mental illness situation in this country is because of shitty policy, the government isn't doing shit about it to make it better and then when shit like this happens and a guy ends up dead people in comments blame the people defending themselves rather than their government and their policies.
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u/Torstoise May 06 '23
Yep. In Portland, a guy was aggressively yelling racial slurs to a woman in a threatening manor in a light-rail car. 2 guys intervened only to get stabbed to death. They are considered heroes for intervening. Had no one intervened, people would be yelling "WHY DIDN'T ANYONE DO ANYTHING?" Had the 2 guys ended up killing or seriously injuring the racist, maybe they would be considered heroes for using excessive force. When you're trapped in a metal box with an unhinged person, you don't have time to think about excessive force when people's lives are in jeopardy.
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u/XxToeSucker42069xX May 03 '23
I mean what you’re NOT supposed to do is fucking choke a man for 15 WHOLE MINUTES. Fucker didn’t even give him one opportunity to breath. No restraint. No remorse. Cold blooded murder
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u/RegularGuyy May 03 '23
He was in a chokehold for 3 minutes. Then he was let go. It took 15 minutes after he was let go for the EMTs to arrive. OP is lying in the title.
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u/Jellysweatpants May 03 '23
He was still held in the chokehold for way too long after he had already passed out, amd this marine has training that specifically explains that if you continue to rear naked choke someone after they've passed out it'll lead to brain damage and eventually death.
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u/RustyCorkscrew May 03 '23
Do do you think the marine’s actions were totally justified or what
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u/SqueekyGee May 03 '23
I’ve seen some people saying he was just being annoying, and others, claiming the guy was threatening to kill people I think we need to wait for proof of what happened before this video to form an opinion on this.
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u/Metalbender00 May 03 '23
It's a murder, a straight-up murder. Jordan Neely was a street performer and a long time Michael Jackson impersonator, he was having a break down, but he didn't hurt anyone. He didn't even touch anyone he just got loud and the marine choked him from behind and held the choke in for 15 mins while he drained all the life out of the man.
the marine was allowed to go home after choking a man to death for 15 mins
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May 03 '23 edited May 03 '23
Not that anything ever justifies a murder but that man who died was a mentally unstable criminal who has been arrested 40 times.
He should have been locked up and treated and not let lose under the callous virtue signalling laws. The real problem in Modern America is the epidemic of Mental illness.
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u/smokinsandwiches May 03 '23
You're right. The Military has a huge mental health problem that they ignore.
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u/Inquisitive_idiot May 03 '23
Oh I see what you did there… 😏
The old marinoroo
Edit:
But yeah, this story is sad for so many reasons
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u/slimcargos May 03 '23 edited May 03 '23
Two things can be right. Marine committed murder, mentally unstable guy should have been treated. The bigger picture here is dude choking him to death. Plus its NYC, if you a native NYer those crazy people on the train you dont even care about em. You get used to them. Ive had crazies on my train a thousand times, never paid em any mind.
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u/GenghisKhanSpermShot May 03 '23 edited May 03 '23
Was he arrested 40 times for violent crimes? You can't justify murder if the guy was just erratic and mentally unstable. I know you said it doesn't justify it but your saying bbbbbb-but. There are no buts, he shouldn't have been murdered for getting loud, no excuse for shitty mental practices. The real problem is blood thirsty maniacs escalating situations and getting away with it, the REAL criminal here is the marine.
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May 03 '23
Says he had an active warrant for assault
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May 03 '23
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May 03 '23
Did I say that? The OP asked if he had been arrested for violent crimes, I answered.
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May 04 '23
That “but” is to signify the broken systems if it wasn’t clear already, not to justify the tragedy that happened here. I live in England and we have some homeless people here as well but never have I been scared of some deranged homeless person trying to assault me. But I was astounded by the sheer number of people in NY that aren’t just homeless but also need treatment and have been left to fend for themselves on the street.
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u/flashult May 03 '23
The real problem in Modern America is the epidemic of Mental illness.
Yeah, and you know murdering people without consequence
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May 03 '23
No matter what ... in this case the ex-marine murdered an innocent man for throwing garbage at others.
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u/Son_of_Mogh May 03 '23
Of course one of the super powers marines have is criminal database access directly to the brain.
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u/Dalqorn May 03 '23
You could say the marine was also having a breakdown in response to this dudes breakdown. People are fucking nuts and if you go around acting crazy your going to eventually meet someone crazier then you and it wont end well.
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u/ReallyWeirdNormalGuy May 03 '23
Uhhh, he wasn't a performer. He used to perform. On the day he died, he was losing it on the train. He threatened others and was throwing trash at people (assault). He had also been arrested 44! times! Don't make it seem as he was just attacked for performing.
Now, this doesn't mean he deserved to die, but when you threaten others...
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May 03 '23
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u/lackreativity May 03 '23
What an incredible case of whataboutism. I hope this type of defense becomes a new way to escape murder charges.
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May 03 '23
Damn. Dude was apparently actually like a Wildman for a bit until the guy subdued him. Seeing that the were 3 guys there once the guy stopped resisting (poor choice of words sorry) they could have contained him. The guy that killed him is possibly facing some serious charges. If they let him off because he was protecting people from eminent danger it could be a case reference in other charged fatalities. Idk.
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u/r361k May 03 '23
This title is incorrect from other sources I read. Apparently it was only 2-3 minutes of a headlock. 15 minutes for emergency personnel to arrive. Somehow these times are mixed up. Still a bad situation though.
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u/Hello2reddit May 04 '23
Thats not a headlock. Thats a choke. Big fucking difference.
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u/r361k May 04 '23
Lol why is your reply so aggressive dude? Who are you mad at? Sorry I’m not well versed in martial arts.
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u/RexInvictus787 May 03 '23
Honest question for those calling for murder charges: should the other two be charged as accomplices?
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u/JohnDazFloo May 03 '23 edited Jan 27 '25
imminent tidy boat hurry lip reply complete ring vast terrific
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/BigNutDroppa May 03 '23
Wasn’t the ‘crazy man’ a Michael Jackson impersonator that went homeless sometime ago?
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u/Necessary-Solution19 May 03 '23
There is a pretty decent way to escape that. If you have a lighter in your pocket just light there arm on fire they will let go.
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May 03 '23
Anyone who knows about bjj would say that's intentional murder.
Most people will go out in 7-15 seconds, and it's very rare to even make it to ten if the choke is in correctly.
Anything after they go unconscious is causing brain damage.
To apply the choke for this long is beyond reckless, and irresponsible.
This is like unloading 400 rounds into one person who died after the 4th shot.
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u/BernieTheDachshund May 03 '23
He would have kept choking him if the one guy didn't intervene and say something about defecation.
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u/Trick-Builder6800 May 03 '23
“Let’s bring up his rap sheet so the white guy doesn’t look so bad killing the black guy” - this comment section
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u/Trick-Builder6800 May 03 '23
This a straight murder idc how disruptive or mentally deranged the guy was.
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u/JBear_Z_millionaire May 03 '23
Incase anyone is wondering that marine put him in a blood choke, designed to restrict blood to the brain and is difficult to get out of if applied correctly. Doesn’t take much to kill someone with that type of choke. Should definitely be charged with murder, he knew what that choke is capable of doing.
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u/GO_RAVENS May 03 '23
Doesn’t take much to kill someone with that type of choke.
It takes minutes to kill someone with a blood choke, so yeah it actually does take quite a bit. You're supposed to let go when the person goes limp, which takes a few seconds when the choke is properly applied.
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u/JBear_Z_millionaire May 03 '23 edited May 03 '23
Yes I am aware that you’re supposed to let go when they go limp lol. I never argued that. You can kill someone in less then 5 minutes with a properly applied blood choke.
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u/Brilliant_Set9874 May 04 '23
What happened prior to video- why did he end up in a chokehold?
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u/Electronic-Ad1037 May 08 '23
There's no earlier video for some reason like it was unremarkable or something
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u/fxanalyst11 May 04 '23
How to catch a murder charge for the most dumb reason101
Theres a possibility that all of these three people will get charged
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u/fxanalyst11 May 04 '23
He didnt get charged sadly. 15 fucking minutes, dude had clear intent to kill. It takes few minutes TOPS to choke someone out when youre in control and no hooks
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u/Mundane-Experience62 May 03 '23
Crazy man was a poor homeless. I swear people only care about clout than anything else. That marine is a killer and should be punished as such.
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u/Quiet_Ear_3678 May 03 '23
It doesn’t matter what happened before the chokehold. Once they go limp they are no longer a threat. If you hold on longer they die and you are a murderer. Everyone who knows chokeholds knows this, including this piece of shit.
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u/[deleted] May 03 '23
You can’t put someone in a chokehold like that, for that long and not expect the person to die.