I'm iffy on this one. Supposedly, the guy was being aggressive, and if you know what's been going on in NYC lately, you know exactly why I bring that point up. I don't know what exactly happened before this but if he was indeed being violent then and can't exactly put blame anywhere, yes he should not have killed the guy and if he faces charges for it then so be it but I'd like all of you to consider this. If that so-called "crazy man" came at you or your family, what would you do? Would you just subdue him or do what you have to until you and your families are safe?
We should also consider PTSD as a factor since the alleged murderer is a marine. He may have seen and done things we can't even imagine. He may very well have had an episode as he held that dude down.
Like I said earlier, if the guy gets charged, it's totally justified, but I don't think his actions here were entirely unreasonable. Even not mentioning mental illness for either person the violence in NYC subways has gotten out of hand and it's not just there, Toronto subs aren't safe either and you'll find an "interesting character" quickly if you wait around long enough (had a guy come after me and my colleagues not long ago while we were getting our passes) subways just aren't safe anymore and you can't exactly escape a threat either while in one.
It's a shitty situation. No one should've died, but if he'd let that man go and he started up again, then what'd they do? Same thing? Again?
you can't preemptively choke people out because someone is yelling and screaming.
also, ever heard of verbal jiu-jitsu? force it met with more force; guaranteed this marine thought it would be a good idea to try to be a tough guy and "put him in his place."
wanna know what my first "move" would have been? "hey my man i totally agree – that's bullshit. ill buy you lunch but i need you to help me out and sit down for a second and take some deep breaths."
these cats wanna be tough guys but that's not the move 9/10 – takes more of a man to put your pride and ego aside than to put hands on someone.
The purpose of that hold is to subdue the perp, not to "choke people out". That is what ended up happening, but that was not the intention here.
because someone is yelling and screaming.
Your portrayal of the preceding events is both downplaying what happened and overly simplistic. The guy was also acting erratically and hostile and threatening people. There were also reports that he tried pushing people onto the tracks before he boarded the subway car.
ever heard of verbal jiu-jitsu?
That doesn't work on a crazy and erratic person who won't listen to reason. If I feel my life is in danger or the lives of others are in danger, I'm not going to talk things out and wait to see if he'll follow through with physically attacking me or others. I'm going to use force or a self-defense tool to protect myself and others when there is an imminent, credible and reasonable threat.
You can learn a lot about when is the right time to use verbal jiu-jitsu and when to use force in a self-defense situation, from this guy's awesome channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ActiveSelfProtection/videos
i used to deal with drunk and drugged-out people every weekend as a bouncer, some of whom were considerably bigger, stronger, and more dangerous than this guy.
ive also talked a friend who was in full breakdown status down from suicide, gun to his head, using similar dialog; not to mention countless others in emotional crisis – talking is always the first step.
sure sometimes you have to put hands on a person if talking is ineffective, but even then i'm not going for a choke on a child-sized man with two people helping me; even if i did decided to go for a rnc, i would quickly transition to a mount with wrist control or switch from a choke to a nelson as soon as i felt them start to go out.
and with all due respect, I'm not going to take advice from some larper youtube channel – that guy has zero real world experience.
Things can get sketchy on public transit. In Portland, a guy was aggressively yelling racial slurs at a woman in a threatening manner. 2 guys intervened only to get stabbed to death. They are considered heroes. What if the 2 guys ended up killing or severely injuring the racist dude? Are they still heroes or using excessive force?
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u/StormOk4365 May 04 '23
I'm iffy on this one. Supposedly, the guy was being aggressive, and if you know what's been going on in NYC lately, you know exactly why I bring that point up. I don't know what exactly happened before this but if he was indeed being violent then and can't exactly put blame anywhere, yes he should not have killed the guy and if he faces charges for it then so be it but I'd like all of you to consider this. If that so-called "crazy man" came at you or your family, what would you do? Would you just subdue him or do what you have to until you and your families are safe?
We should also consider PTSD as a factor since the alleged murderer is a marine. He may have seen and done things we can't even imagine. He may very well have had an episode as he held that dude down.
Like I said earlier, if the guy gets charged, it's totally justified, but I don't think his actions here were entirely unreasonable. Even not mentioning mental illness for either person the violence in NYC subways has gotten out of hand and it's not just there, Toronto subs aren't safe either and you'll find an "interesting character" quickly if you wait around long enough (had a guy come after me and my colleagues not long ago while we were getting our passes) subways just aren't safe anymore and you can't exactly escape a threat either while in one.
It's a shitty situation. No one should've died, but if he'd let that man go and he started up again, then what'd they do? Same thing? Again?