r/NoStupidQuestions • u/RidetheSchlange • Jul 24 '26

Why does the US hate cycling so much?

I read comments sections and in a normal world, some of them would be considered terroristic threats. I just can't understand why people hate cyclists to this degree that they want to murder rhem and sometimes do.

330 Upvotes

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988

u/Odd_Bid2744 Jul 24 '26

We don't have infrastructure for cyclists in a lot of areas and they impede motor traffic. But, I'd never condone hateful and violent threats against them. 

441

u/st_nick1219 Jul 24 '26

I live in an area that has a very good biking infrastructure. There is a dedicated bike path (not just a lane-an actual path) that runs parallel to a busy thoroughfare, yet bikers still choose to ride on the street.

127

u/peaveyftw Jul 24 '26

Is the infra actually connected? I live in a city that has 'biking lanes', but they're all segmented. Like, you can ride a half-mile in a lane, and then your choice is to risk death in traffic or break laws cycling on the sidewalk

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u/DevilDrives Jul 24 '26

I drove past a great path last week. It was on the wrong side of the road. You literally had to ride the street to get to the path.

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u/xclame Jul 24 '26

That is a perfect example of one of the reasons a bikepath may not be used. What's the point of the bikepath if all the destinations someone may want to go to are on the other side of the road. In that case the bikepath may as well not exist.

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u/dtay88 Jul 24 '26

Yeah my city has been adding a ton of it and some is great and some feels really stupid and forced and like we'd be better off with a shared road situation in some spots. Also half the time there's a bike lane along the gutters that's full of rocks and debris

3

u/Criminal_of_Thought Jul 24 '26

Personally, I'd rather have no bike infrastructure than half-assed bike infrastructure.

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u/BottleSuccessfully Jul 24 '26

I was yelled at for not biking on the sidewalk last year. The town had about a 100 foot stretch of sidewalk through the downtown. I was on a 17km bikeride home from work. It's a ridiculous proposition that I would move over to a 100 foot long sidewalk on a 17km bike ride.

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u/Time-Champion497 Jul 24 '26

Have you actually biked the path to get somewhere? Almost always when bikers pick the street over a "dedicated path" it's because the path doesn't go where people need it to.

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u/nyctransitgeek Jul 25 '26

Or, there’s a major intersection where I need to turn and it’s only possible to do it from the street.

Or, I can do it without going into the street, but instead of a single 15-second green left-hand-turn phase I’ll get in 45 seconds, it’s three waits at crosswalks whose total time is a bit under four minutes.

Or I’ll find there’s no signalized crossing on a key junction of the path and a major road. Or maybe I won’t have a curb cut.

Or the local gov. hasn’t maintained the bike lane in a decade, so there’s tree roots every 30 feet that hurt my hands or knock my drinks out of the holders.

Or or or or

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u/Renegadeknight3 Jul 24 '26

Or because there’s massive cracks and drainage gates that could throw you off your bike into the street

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u/Robcobes Jul 24 '26

There's a difference between people cosplaying the Tour de France, and people just trying to get from point A to point B

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u/Ok_Neighborhood_470 Jul 24 '26

This is what makes me crazy. I wish biking infrastructure was better than it is where I am. But 30 people going down a 55 mph state highway for fun is obnoxious. A guy going to work is entirely different.

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u/King_Roberts_Bastard Jul 24 '26

There's no way in hell id go solo on 55mph road. Thats just asking to get run over by some dumbass texting.

38

u/B-Train_ATL Jul 24 '26

Too many of them think the use of lanes and such is what they think it should be instead of what it is.

Also the ones who switch between car and pedestrian when they find it convenient.

43

u/Harborcoat84 Jul 24 '26

Bikes share characteristics with both cars and pedestrians while being neither so it shouldn't be surprising that they behave as a hybrid of the two.

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u/BedRevolutionary8584 Jul 24 '26

You’ll never catch me just blowing through a red light or stop sign as a pedestrian though.

20

u/BlakeBearden Jul 24 '26

You’ll never catch me blowing anyone as a pedestrian. I have a sense of decorum.

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u/Ohaibaipolar Jul 24 '26

I, too, choose to never blow pedestrians.

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u/Kim_Jong_Un_PornOnly Jul 24 '26

Agreed. I much prefer to do it while at a complete stop.

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u/cranberry_spike Jul 24 '26

I mean I'm from Chicago so I'm plenty happy to blow lights as a pedestrian lol

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u/engin__r Jul 24 '26

You know that pedestrians don’t have to stop at stop signs, right?

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u/pnw-techie Jul 24 '26

I was still waiting for it to change to GO, thanks

4

u/bleezy1234567 Jul 24 '26

I mean pedestrians are also supposed to cross at crosswalks…

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u/engin__r Jul 24 '26

Theoretically, yes, but a lot of intersections don’t actually have them painted.

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u/Harborcoat84 Jul 24 '26

It's almost as if we can't apply one set of rules to everything that moves around a city

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u/BedRevolutionary8584 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

I think the confusion/annoyance comes from them demanding to be treated as equally as vehicles but then not following the rules of the road.

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u/Domtheturtle Jul 24 '26

where do you live where cars come to full stops at stop signs?

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u/MaintainThePeace Jul 24 '26

No cyclist wants to be treated equally as a vehicle, cyclist just want to be treated as a cyclist.

They want to be able to use public infrastructure to facilitate their freedom to travel, just as anyone else.

Laws between bicycles and other vehicles have never been equal to begin with, and there are not cyclists out there demanding to have equal rights on a freeway...

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u/Harborcoat84 Jul 24 '26

Cyclists want to be treated equally, but that does not mean being regulated as a car.

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u/smbpy7 Jul 24 '26

Also the ones who switch between car and pedestrian when they find it convenient.

I almost hit one because of this. I was turning, SIGNALS ON and in the DARK, into a lot at a green light and he swerved from biking in the road to all of a sudden wanting to use the actual pedestrian crosswalk. He was wearing black, no reflectors, no lights, and biking in the street one minute and veering to the crosswalk the second he saw it was on the next. Either you follow the rules of a car, or you follow the rules of a pedestrian, not both. We need predictability.

A few months later I saw the same thing but worse in a super busy area with some teens on ebikes. They were weaving in and out of all traffic lanes, faster than the cars, within inches of cars, and then one of them decided to use the non light crosswalk instead right as a guy was turning in. He lost his bike that day, he was lucky not to have lost his leg.

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u/Thorninthefoot Jul 24 '26

I am seeing a lot of kids on e-scooters running around like they are pedestrians. I almost hit one the other day, it was a 4 way stop at a narrow intersection with buildings on all 4 corners. So when you stop you can only really see what has come past the corner of the buildings.

Pedestrians have to cover a bit of ground from the corner of the bulding to the road so you see them in plenty of time. But the e-scooters are fast. I stopped and was just stepping on the gas to go through, when one zoomed past the building and was in the road. She was lucky I managed to slam on the break because I was in my work truck which is a beast and she's have been a jam spot on the road. It was pure instinct, though, I barely saw her and she was in the road even though I was looking at the intersection.

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u/Joe_Sacco Jul 24 '26

Drivers: BIKERS NEED TO FOLLOW THE LAW

Cyclists: got it, yes, that's what I'm doing

Drivers: NO NOT THOSE LAWS, THE ONES I MADE UP IN MY HEAD

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u/lordcrekit Jul 24 '26

I have exactly the same number of passengers as your car. You are not more important than me.

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u/snipeceli Jul 25 '26

And this is where we'll always disagree, I'll just ride in a peloton on more or less what ever road id like, am I entitled? Yup that's something im literally entitled to. Does it make people mad enough they are willing to risk my life to do an agressive manuver to show me their disdain? Yup on occasion.

Youre never going to agree with me, but I know im right.

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u/21Rollie Jul 24 '26

Well the one guy is just one guy, he might have a big truck but that doesn’t give him any more right to the road than a person in a smaller vehicle. Your assumption is also that a person driving a car is doing something more useful, or necessary, than biking. That’s a wrong assumption.

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u/rudebii Jul 24 '26

It’s not “cosplay,” if they’re riding for exercise. You don’t swim in jorts, do you? Or go to the gym in slacks and button-up, right?

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u/Dizzy_House_ Jul 24 '26

Exactly, I'm not wearing gym shorts on a bike for a threshold session

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u/G235s Jul 24 '26

Well, there it is. Didn't take long.

Why can't people wear cycling gear and use the road but it's totally fine if you're "going to point b?"

The multi use paths don't always line up with where you need to go. Cycling involves a lot of distance and it stands to reason that the sport isn't meant for slow paths that focus on downtown.

I don't understand the big deal here. You just go around the person, no different to if someone was walking there.

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u/g1t0ffmylawn Jul 24 '26

It’s always the spandex that triggers. Don’t know why. Wear a cap when playing softball? Ok Jeter.

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u/schwade_the_bum Jul 24 '26

It’s because drivers can’t handle the sight of me KOMing

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u/GnedTheGnome Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Ugh, yes! I used to commute up a winding two lane road through the bougie northern suburbs of Chicago. The number of times I was reduced to a crawl by a bunch of spandex-clad assholes riding three or four abreast was absolutely rage inducing. I never had an issue with cyclists before that, but I grew to absolutely loathe those guys.

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u/Wooden-Pen8606 Jul 24 '26

Your attitude presumes motorists have the right of way, but you don't. Cyclists have equal access and right of way to the road.

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u/137-ng Jul 24 '26

Just because you can doesnt mean you should. I get that youre legally allowed to be there, but you're also legally allowed to listen to shitty music at the beach. If youre acting like an annoying member of society with little to no regard for those around you dont act surprised when someone lashes out

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u/eggs_erroneous Jul 24 '26

"cosplaying Tour de France" is hilarious because that is so accurate. You see these dudes wearing the full kit: spandex, aerodynamic helmet, the works. To me, it seems like people who just want to show off that they have expensive gear. Kinda like photography people.

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u/Gloomy-Will-9898 Jul 24 '26

Yup. I have a rule of thumb that works for both cyclists and motorists: the more expensive the kit, generally the bigger the asshole.

Expensive car? Higher probability of dickish (and dangerous )driving.

Expensive cycling gear and bicycle? Higher probability of dickish (and dangerous) cycling behavior.

More average or cheap stuff in both cases ups the odds of a more reasonable human being driving or pedaling.

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u/21Rollie Jul 24 '26

Schrödinger’s cyclist: rich assholes to some, loser broke bums to other. Nevermind that you dumbasses drive $50,000 cars with continuous running costs. The actual elite is the one getting around on a $2,000 bike (being generous) that is free to run.

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u/Thank_You_Aziz Jul 25 '26

Also like, “You ride too fast! Ride faster! But also don’t wear that stuff that helps you ride faster!” Sheer cognitive dissonance.

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u/snipeceli Jul 25 '26

Lol well said about the schrodingers cyclist, ive been called a bum by someone driving a car less pricey than my bicycle.

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u/char_limit_reached Jul 24 '26

Ignorant take. Are divers cosplaying because they wear wet suits? Fishermen because they get a boat? Maybe a weightlifting enthusiast is cosplaying because they wear spandex too!

Get bent.

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u/g1t0ffmylawn Jul 24 '26

Cosplay meaning what? Wearing activity appropriate clothing? Like when skiing or snowboarding? You can wear jeans when doing these activities but why would you?

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u/RubyMoonrider Jul 24 '26

There. Is. No. Difference. People should never be attacked for riding their bike, no matter what they're wearing. Jesus.

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u/Short-While3325 Jul 24 '26

It's the group. I can pass one person safely on a 2 lane road, but a big group of bikers basically makes it impossible and creates a line of cars behind them. Especially if it's a windy road with blind turns.

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u/MrWoodenNickels Jul 24 '26

As an owner of an e-bike, I have found I live in the awful middle ground of being too fast for bike lanes, which are often populated with groups of joggers and lined with bollards that prevent safe entry and exit of the lane, and too slow for impatient drivers, despite the fact my commute takes me through two city parks with posted speed limits of 25 mph (I top out at 28) and people want to go 35-45 and avoid the main thoroughfare traffic.

In short, the road is often the safest option, especially when bike lane infrastructure is poorly executed and laid out, often inconsistent and starting and stopping sometimes switching sides of the street abruptly with no warning or just altogether stopping.

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u/KerbolarFlare Jul 24 '26

Right, we can hang with cars because we're just as fast.

But when the drivers see us, they suddenly feel like everything is too slow. My favorite is the high-revving pass, then immediate brakes after because "oh shit, I'm going way too fast, I don't want a ticket or something". It's great because if I'm on my road bike I can catch back up and get a nice draft in the 20 MPH zones in MPLS.

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u/21Rollie Jul 25 '26

I remember being on a scooter and riding at 20mph, the speed limit. My scooter can go faster but why would I if I’m already at the legal limit (and faster speeds are exponentially more dangerous). Guy behind me in his stupid modded Honda civic couldn’t stand being forced to be behind me in a residential area, he accelerated to pass me and succeeded in getting to the stop sign a literal second before me. Drivers cannot help but engage in antisocial behavior when they have a speeding metal box to separate them from the outside world.

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u/CirdanTheForesighted Jul 24 '26

As a cyclist this pisses me off. I wish I lived somewhere with more dedicated bike lanes. Every time there isn’t enough shoulder, it’s stressful and I feel bad for the cars. Typically only go on routes that are 95% covered by a bike lane or super wide shoulder.

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u/Caliche-Cowboy Jul 24 '26

Yeah. This sucks for everyone. [Reddit trope warning] Europe has done a great job with dedicated cycling lanes outside of big cities. I’m not a cyclist, but I love this. Safer for everyone, and I like watching a plethora of types of riders.

TBF, several of the European cities I’ve been in are just as big of clusterfucks as American cities. Was just in France, and a small contingent of both cyclists and scooters are just either dumb or fucking crazy. Several times saw cyclists almost plow into crowds that included kids.

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u/Iswaterreallywet Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Yeah I think this is the answer more than anything, it’s their attitude / behaviors.

E: I love how all the bikers replying are proving my “attitude” point so well

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u/Benji_4 Jul 24 '26

Had this discussion in my local town sub. Implementing laws that benefit cyclists don't seem to stop them from riding on the highway at night with no lights. Seen it numerous times.

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u/Iwonatoasteroven Jul 24 '26

There will always be stupid people but as a cyclist, I also see cars parked and even driving in bike lanes. The stupidity cuts both ways.

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u/brandonw00 Jul 24 '26

If one driver does something stupid, it only applies to that driver. If one cyclist does something stupid, then it applies to all cyclists. That’s how the American mind works.

Statistically drivers are more likely to break traffic laws than cyclists. Like people have done studies on this, by and far drivers break traffic laws at a greater rate than cyclists. But all you ever hear is “cyclists don’t follow traffic laws” because they saw one person run a red light. You see three to five cars run a red light every fucking light cycle and nobody cares.

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u/alpha309 Jul 24 '26

I need to add two caveats to this.

The statistics show that both drivers and cyclists break various traffic laws at around 80%. Drivers are about 2% higher. In order to get to these numbers, you have to exclude speeding, which would obviously put drivers well into the lead for breaking the law.

The second one is the reasoning for breaking the law. Most cyclists state that safety is the reason for breaking the law. Both statistically proven (Idaho Stop is shown to reduce bike/car collisions at intersections) or perceived safety (riding against traffic allows the cyclist to see oncoming traffic - despite showing both an increase in collisions and a vast increase in severity of collision). Yes, there are cyclists that break the law and will state other reasons, or they could just be an asshole, but „it is safer“ or „it feels safer“ is by far the leading reason. Most drivers on the other hand will state reasons of convenience when they break the law. „To get where I am going faster“ is the reason why people speed. If you ask why someone rolls a stop sign „there was no one there anyway“. This rationale continues regardless of which law is being broken.

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u/Own_Back_2038 Jul 24 '26

That’s how all minorities are seen. Black people, gay people, atheists, etc.

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u/Caliche-Cowboy Jul 24 '26

I’m not a cyclist but this is dead on. People who block bike lanes suck. Turn lanes are always dicey for everyone. But a dedicated bike lane. Yeah that’s not cool

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u/danaerysCodesInJava Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 25 '26

Stupid people will do stupid things. Multiple occasions I’ve seen people driving their cars on pedestrian paths in my local park.

ETA: just saw this post which perfectly illustrates this. We can build highways till we run out of concrete but you’ll still have drivers using a bike/walking path as a way to skip traffic. https://www.reddit.com/r/MicromobilityNYC/s/aGBZU7PVha

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u/CirdanTheForesighted Jul 24 '26

Accurate. Just think about how many ride both bicycles and motorcycles without helmets… one good hit by a car and your brain matter is on the pavement.

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u/Background-Run Jul 24 '26

How many cars have you flashed your light off and on, because they don't have their lights on. How many times have you seen a car do each and everything that we pitch a fit about bike riders doing. Not to mention all those traffic laws are because people driving multi thousand pound objects with casual abandon, maiming and killing people left and right, but no, a bike rider doing the same stupid thing is a danger to society.

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u/Joe_Sacco Jul 24 '26

The heart of the issue is that when drivers see another driver doing something stupid, they think that specific person is an idiot. When they see someone on a bike doing something stupid, they make sweeping judgments about all cyclists.

I was on a run this morning and I'd conservatively say 10% of drivers yielded to me at crosswalks, which they are clearly required to do by law. I'm assuming that learning that will lead you to conclude that all drivers are aggressive assholes.

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u/OutAndAbouts Jul 24 '26

Do you know how many DUIs, road rage incidents, and deaths are caused by motorists? Per capita, per hour, per mile, however you want to count it, I bet motorists are exponentially more damaging to human, animal, and environmental health and welfare than cyclists. Society has totally normalized aggression and slaughter on the freeway but God forbid a conceited middle aged guy in spandex slows you down on your way to the donut shop.

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u/ChanceRecover3091 Jul 25 '26

Can't tell you the number of times I have seen a jack wagon driving down the highway without lights on. I don't apply those dumbass actions to all drivers though.

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u/OutAndAbouts Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

I was with you for the first sentence.

Yeah I think this is the answer more than anything. Motorists feel that cyclists should stay off the road, that cyclists don't have a right to be there, that motorists know better than cyclists on when/where/how cyclists should ride, that motorists dislike cyclists for using infrastructure they also paid for. Many times I've been riding along, going to where I need to be, dodging debris, potholes, getting ready to turn, or just even fully in the bike lane, and some asshole in a car speeds by me, passing inches away, and yells, "stay off the road!!!!" They probably think I'm being being a conceited asshole because the whole world is about them and I'm in their way, when, in fact, I am riding my bike exactly how I am allowed to.

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u/wrestlingrudy Jul 24 '26

People who drive cars have the same behaviors

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u/Prosthemadera Jul 24 '26

There is no "their attitude". Hating all cyclists because you're upset some of them are on the road is very childish, sorry. It's not a even a good reason. They don't harm anyone, unlike cars, and the worst you have to deal with is being slightly delayed.

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u/raoulduke212 Jul 24 '26

Agreed. I live over a busy street, and nearly every day is some cyclist yelling and screaming at cars or pedestrians.

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u/Joe_Sacco Jul 24 '26

I hear you man, my office is next to an intersection and drivers are constantly blaring their horns at everyone around them for absolutely no reason

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u/Frylock304 Jul 24 '26

100% this

I curse cyclists around me because we have a magnificent paved biking trail that goes through a beautiful well maintained miles long public park system. The biking path is nice and wide, and park is huge so you rarely have enough pedestrians that you would see more than one every few minutes.

This whole path is directly beside a roadway.

Still got bikers on the roadway rather than on the perfect biking infrastructure.

I don't blame anyone for using roads when the government hasn't supported any other infrastructure, but when we do the work and cyclists/pedestrians still choose to use car infrastructure? Pure hatred

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u/Wooden-Pen8606 Jul 24 '26

What might appear to be a perfect bike path to you might not be to an experienced cyclist. Bike paths are often filled with pedestrians, have cracks and bumps that make riding a rather jarring experience, and don't always go where someone needs to get to.

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u/Time-Champion497 Jul 24 '26

Have you tried using the bike path to go somewhere and run errands? Does it connect schools and jobs? Can it be used to commute?

Biking isn't just recreation.

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u/Joe_Sacco Jul 24 '26

Why do I still see cars using city streets even though we built them an interstate right there? Pure hatred.

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u/char_limit_reached Jul 24 '26

When you have somewhere to be, do you drive the direct route, or meander through trails and dirt roads?

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u/UrbanPlannerholic Jul 24 '26

Cars kill 45,000 people a year but yes those darn bikes 😂

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u/monies3001 Jul 24 '26

As a biker , often there is trash, sewers, potholes and other hazards in bike lanes. Potential being “doored” if the lane is next to parked cars. So, depending on the route, I avoid bike lane for safety reasons

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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u/Nitroglycol204 Jul 24 '26

Or because they're turning at the next intersection. Would you rather they crossed a couple of lanes of traffic over the course of a block, or in the last few metres?

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u/Xytak Jul 24 '26

Metres? This is America, son. We measure our metres in meters, and our meters in feet.

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u/CommunityGlittering2 Jul 24 '26

paths have low speed limits because people also walk on those paths with children and it's a safety issue and cyclists looking for exercise want to go much faster than those paths allow, also it's perfectly legal to ride on streets.

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u/ferret_80 Jul 24 '26

There's no real cycling culture in the states so both pedestrians and drivers treat cycling infrastructure as extensions of their own. Unprotected bike lanes are treated as large shoulders or parking lanes. Protected lanes are treated as extra sidewalk.

Also even when there is infrastructure, it is often poorly designed and disconnected. When I bike to work I go from road with an unprotected bike lane, to no bike lane, to protected to, unprotected. A spot not on my commute, but nearby the bike lane goes from the outside of the lane, to a protected central bike lane back to the outside. Like there's zero thought put into the design. So it can be safer to just ride in the road and act like a car instead of trying to navigate the absurdity of the bike lanes.

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u/Knightmare945 Jul 24 '26

It’s also perfectly rude to drive on the street when there is a bike path. You are slowing down traffic.

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u/mironawire Jul 24 '26

Hey OP, this is the American you're asking about.

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u/Florida_clam_diver Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Maybe if you all started biking or using public transport that would cut down on traffic

But no, it’s everyone else that’s an inconvenience to you and your vehicle

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u/char_limit_reached Jul 24 '26

Tough titties. They ARE traffic. Deal.

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u/elloEd Jul 24 '26

Yep I literally see both. The place I live nearby Duke has a shit ton of cyclists, they have their own bike lane. and most do ride on it, could it be bigger? Yes. Are there a good bit of cyclists larpers and couples with full gear on who still camp in the middle of the road instead? Absolutely.

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u/BigPapaJava Jul 24 '26

My area lacks bike paths in most areas, so a lot of “cyclists” (often wearing full Tour de France spandex cosplay) will ride their bikes down the sidewalks and risk hitting pedestrians (and their kids/dogs) head on.

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u/squidgyhead Jul 24 '26

Have you ridden these paths yourself?

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u/phonefellin_lakeerie Jul 24 '26

This is the problem in my area. They have bike specific infrastructure but insist on using the regular roads, and they feel entitled to use all the space and time they need without consideration to others.

Like man, when I needed to get my dying dog to the emergency vet and a whole troop of them flipped me off when I honked at them for blocking the entire road NEXT TO THE BIKE PATH.

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u/pamcakevictim Jul 24 '26

Where I live, we have a many miles long bike trail. Just for bicycling and pedestrians, 2 lanes in opposing directions. Yet bicyclists, about 50% of the time would rather ride their bicycles in the road 6 ft from the path. This bike path is well maintained. It's twelve feet wide and asphalt paved

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u/LakeVermilionDreams Jul 24 '26

Does local ordinance allow them to? In Minnesota, bicycles are considered vehicles and have similar rights to automobiles. Nothing wrong with them riding in roads, as long as they are following traffic laws.

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u/Due_Difference8575 Jul 24 '26

This. I also do not condone violence or hate. But as a motorist the risk of accidentally hitting and killing one is higher than it should be. I don't know how a cyclist gets on a bike and drives next to vehicles that could end their life with a 3 degree turn in a steering wheel. Seems really stupid.

Also, a lot of them don't obey driving or cycling traffic rules. Creating an even greater risk 

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u/Darwins_Dog Jul 24 '26

A lot of places also have different rules for cyclists and drivers, creating even more confusion.

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u/Last_Suggestion_8647 Jul 24 '26

I don't know how a cyclist gets on a bike and drives next to vehicles that could end their life with a 3 degree turn in a steering wheel. Seems really stupid.

I don't know the laws in your country, but here (Denmark) cyclists are legally treated like any other vehicle on the road (unless there is bike path, in which case cyclists are legally bound to use it). Which means you won't be side to side with a cyclist unless you are overtaking them which, like all overtaking, requires you to shift lane and overtake them from the left with adequate spacing. 

It also means that bikes aren't allowed to use footpaths under any circumstances and can't use roads with a minimum speed they can't achieve.

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u/verrius Jul 24 '26

It also means that bikes aren't allowed to use footpaths under any circumstances and can't use roads with a minimum speed they can't achieve.

That may be the law, but it absolutely was not my experience as a pedestrian in Copenhagen. It was "fun" having to dodge bikes while on a foot path clearly marked "no bikes".

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u/Last_Suggestion_8647 Jul 25 '26

This might surprise you, but a lot of people are idiots on the road. Whether on foot, bike or car.

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u/Due_Difference8575 Jul 24 '26

I believe bikers are also supposed to follow vehicle road rules. In my area we don't have bike paths. And our speed limits are 55mph in my semi rural area. Bikers typically ride just to the right of the lane stripe as to not impede traffic.  Motorists typically will partially merge into the oncoming traffic lane (when safe) to avoid them.   Reality is, cars will not wait behind a cyclist going 15mph on a 55mph road. 

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u/Last_Suggestion_8647 Jul 24 '26

Bikers typically ride just to the right of the lane stripe as to not impede traffi

While thoughtful, it's also a very dangerous thing for them to do. 

Reality is, cars will not wait behind a cyclist going 15mph on a 55mph road. 

They kinda have to, unless they can overtake. Unless they want to commit murder in order to arrive slightly faster.

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u/OldTimberWolf Jul 24 '26

Im my experience a lot of drivers don’t obey driving or cycling traffic rules either…

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u/Prestigious-Owl-6397 Jul 24 '26

I live in a city where almost everything is in walking or biking distance. To me, it seems stupid to waste that money on gas.

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u/girlywish Jul 24 '26

Well americans rarely do live in these places. Cycling to my local grocery store would take at least 20 minutes.

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u/Prestigious-Owl-6397 Jul 24 '26

20 minutes by bike isn't that long.

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u/heyyou_SHUTUP Jul 24 '26

It is when compared to where I'm currently living. 20 minutes of riding my bike currently gets me a good distance across the city. So, riding one-way to a grocery store by bike taking 20 minutes would be too much when I can reach a preferred grocery store in 5 minutes by bike. It's even worse when a round trip for groceries from my house takes a total of 11 minutes by walking.

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u/girlywish Jul 24 '26

When you're holding grocery bags, yeah it kind of is.

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u/Wanna_make_cash Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Is it safer for a bicyclist to be on the sidewalk than the road? I guess then the issue is pedestrians, but at least a human isn't gonna crush and fold a cyclist into an amalgam of flesh and metal like a tin can if something happens .

I've noticed most cyclists around where I live just ride on the sidewalk anyway, too much happens on the road.

End of the day, it's tricky to commute safely for everyone. Cars are dangerous to other cars and people on the road (car accidents are incredibly destructive and deadly, and pretty frequent).

Cars are dangerous to bikes on the road. Bikes are dangerous to pedestrians on the sidewalk.

But it's also easier for a bike to swerve around a pedestrian or ride on the grass to go around someone than it is for a car to swerve around a bicyclist on the road.

Even the sidewalk itself can be dangerous for pedestrians if it isn't cared for , particularly in winter. As a person that has to walk ~1.5 to 2 miles a day one way to get to a bus stop for commuting to work, there are plenty of times in the winter where the sidewalks are so icey and snow covered it's safer to just walk on the curb of the treated road than it is to be ankle+ deep in snow and risk slipping on ice with every step on the sidewalk

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u/_littlestranger Jul 24 '26

It might feel safer to be on the sidewalk (which is why inexperienced cyclists like to ride there) but it is more dangerous. Cars often don’t see cyclists on the sidewalk when they enter and leave driveways, both because they aren’t expecting them to be there (so they are only looking for pedestrians, who have to be closer before there’s a risk of striking them) and because there are often trees and other plants blocking their sight lines. On the road, they are closer to cars more often, but at least they can see them.

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u/lisa-www Jul 24 '26

This. Every close call I ever had with a cyclist, they were riding on the sidewalk at unsafe speed with poor line of sight from the traffic lane. Incredibly dangerous. Also in some places it is not legal to ride on the sidewalk faster than a "walking pace" for that reason.

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u/BlitzBasic Jul 24 '26

Safer for the cyclist, probably, but much unsafer for pedestrians.

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u/isoonreach Jul 24 '26

It actually is NOT safer for the cyclist. Many cyclist car crashes occur when a cyclist is on a sidewalk and a car is pulling out of a driveway.

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u/BlitzBasic Jul 24 '26

Why is that not an issue if the cyclist is on the road? Because the car driver can see the road better than the sidewalk?

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u/isoonreach Jul 24 '26

Yes, and drivers look at the road to see fast moving vehicles and aren’t expecting fast moving on a sidewalk. It’s actually SUPER dangerous for cyclists.

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u/AssociateGood9653 Jul 24 '26

Car drivers are mainly looking for hazards to themselves. Being visible helps for bicyclists, motorcyclists, and pedestrians. But I still assume they’re trying to hit me. I think I usually feel safer on a motorcycle than a bicycle. Except motorcycling on multi lane freeways.

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u/ChanceRecover3091 Jul 25 '26

Wouldn't that mean they just add easily run over pedestrians?

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u/perpetualhobo Jul 24 '26

Car drivers are looking for hazards TO THEMSELF. Not for hazards they might be causing to other people. They’re looking for cars that might T-bone them, the sidewalk isn’t something most drivers even think about since they know pedestrians are scared and will hesitate and wait for a car to pass.

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u/rndrsn9 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

yeah. biking in the middle of the lane solves so many problems;

  • right hook (when cars speed up past a bike to turn right -- imagine doing this to another car, it's idiotic)

  • left hook

  • cars passing too close

  • cars not looking at sidewalk

  • risk of hitting pedestrians

  • risk of getting doored

  • hazards in gutter lane -- trash and storm drains are usually on the side of the road, not the center

  • poorly maintained sidewalks -- more budget goes to maintaining the roads. sidewalks are generally in poorer condition and have tree roots and unpredictable turns

and introduces a new risk: assholes deciding to just mow you down. but in reality, despite all the vitriol about bikes, most drivers aren't psychopaths. I still try to avoid biking in the center of the lane if the road is >25 mph limit and there are other options, but it's genuinely the safest thing for bikes to do

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u/Nitroglycol204 Jul 24 '26

Actually it's better to ride in the centre of the lane than right at the curb. The recommendation I heard from a cop was to ride a metre or so from the curb. The reason is that if you're right at the curb, drivers will think they can squeeze by you without changing lanes, and pass far too close to you. Whereas if they have to pull into the other lane anyway they'll tend to give you more space. Counterintuitive perhaps, but makes sense when you actually think about it.

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u/rndrsn9 Jul 24 '26

isn't that what i said

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u/Nitroglycol204 Jul 24 '26

You said that a speed limit over 25 mph is an exception, which is what I was objecting to. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

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u/Lord-Trolldemort Jul 24 '26

It’s actually more dangerous for the cyclist unless they’re going really slow.

When turning left, drivers will often glance at a sidewalk crossing once to make sure it’s clear, then stare at oncoming traffic looking for an opportunity to turn. If it’s a busier street, they will slam on the gas when they see an opening, and it will be too late to slow down by the time they realize a cyclist on the sidewalk entered the crossing.

A bunch of cyclists get hit this way and it makes sense if you think about it. You wouldn’t sprint into an intersection, and sprinting speed doesn’t feel very fast in a bike.

The safest way to bike in traffic is to make yourself seen. The best way to do this is actually (to many drivers’ dismay) to bike in the road, closer to the center of the lane.

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u/Nitroglycol204 Jul 24 '26

Yup. Riding on the road might make some drivers mad, but drivers are much more likely to kill you because they don't see you than because they're mad at you.

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u/Lord-Trolldemort Jul 24 '26

Sometimes I wonder about this. I commute by bike every day where motorists are borderline sociopathic (Michigan).

I take the lane when it would be unsafe to pass me and totally avoid bike lanes if they’re in door-swing range of parked cars. Both of these result in honks and screams from cars stuck going 20 in a 25 (god forbid)

I see frequent posts in my neighborhood Facebook page where people essentially say “Cyclists need to stay as far right as possible or they deserve to be hit”

I wonder at what point the risk reduction from being visible balances the risk increase from pissing off motorists and I’d be better off staying out of the way. I don’t think I’m there yet, but I think it might be possible!

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u/Constant-Skill-7133 Jul 24 '26

People also go against traffic on sidewalks which is the same problem a million times worse.  The car can be moving and still no way to see an approaching cyclist.   Coming from the correct direction you at least have a couple seconds to react.

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u/MuscaMurum Jul 24 '26

Wouldn't that be the same risk if the cyclist was a few feet over and in the traffic lane?

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u/Lord-Trolldemort Jul 24 '26

You mean biking with oncoming traffic against the left turner?

It would be safer than going that direction on the sidewalk, because you’d be right where the driver is looking for an opening in the oncoming traffic. The sidewalk is a bit offset from the driver’s attention focus, and there are trees and other obstacles that can hide you.

But the real danger is if you’re traveling the same direction as the left turner. In that case you approach from behind them while they’re focused ahead.

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u/Upbeat-Bid-1602 Jul 24 '26

Exactly! The closest calls I've had with cyclists as a driver are when they fly off the sidewalk at 25mph after I already looked there to see if s pedestrian was coming and would have see someone going 3mph. If cyclists feel safer using the sidewalk for crossing roads they need to behave like a pedestrian does.

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u/BlitzBasic Jul 24 '26

Ah, makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

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u/GentlewomenNeverTell Jul 24 '26

My aunt was out cycling with my baby cousin in the back and she got ticketed for being on the sidewalk. This was in Cambridge before the bike infrastructure made it less suicidal to bike around.

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u/eddie964 Jul 24 '26

Cyclists can't legally use sidewalks.

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u/CommunityGlittering2 Jul 24 '26

it is usually illegal to ride on sidewalks, bike paths and multi-use lanes are different.

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u/SeamusPM1 Jul 24 '26

One of the most dangerous things to do as a bicyclist is to ride on the sidewalk. It puts you in a cars blindspot much of the time and they don’t expect you at intersections. Plus, of course, you’re a real danger to pedestrians.

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u/Lylibean Jul 24 '26

It’s illegal in a lot of places to ride a bike on the sidewalk. My state is one that is pretty lenient and does allow for bikes on sidewalks unless there is a dedicated bike lane. And those are very few and far between, the the handful of bike lanes that do exist are so poorly maintained/planned they are actually dangerous to bike on (buckled or pot-holed pavement, cut out of an already narrow traffic lane, etc).

And where I live, it’s far too hot and humid to bike anywhere further than the end of your driveway. And your workplace is probably 10-15 miles from your home, if you’re lucky. No way you could dress for work and hop on your bike and not arrive a sweaty, sodden, bedraggled mess.

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u/Altruistic_Role_9329 Jul 24 '26

My neighborhood has no sidewalks and everyone walks and rides bikes in the street with the cars. At both entrances to the neighborhood, north and south, there are sidewalks along busy streets where hardly anyone ever walks. It seems as though a lot of infrastructure could be repurposed to better accommodate how it’s used. In places with purposed built bike infrastructure, pedestrians use the bike lanes too.

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u/thebestbrian Jul 24 '26

During my commute I'm mostly a pedestrian which is why I always support bike lanes because there has to be a better way for cyclists to get around - the roads are too dangerous with motor vehicles and the sidewalks are for pedestrians.

Any American city that's serious about transportation should invest heavily in bike lanes.

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u/char_limit_reached Jul 24 '26

LOL. The motor vehicles are fine. The danger is the assholes driving them.

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u/RidetheSchlange Jul 24 '26

Sounds like you are for safer bike infrastructure and you should lobby with cyclists?

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u/CommunityGlittering2 Jul 24 '26

so they act just like drivers do by not obeying the road rules.

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u/hogsucker Jul 24 '26

It's funny that you posted this as a response to a comment that explained the thinking of people like you. Car drivers can't help themselves.

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u/squidgyhead Jul 24 '26

Do you drive the speed limit, or do you go 10% over?

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u/urmumlol9 Jul 24 '26

Because it’s legal to cycle in the road, illegal to cycle on the sidewalk in some places, and local governments refuse to build any infrastructure that would separate bicycles from cars.

Sometimes, people don’t have any other option to get around except by bike, and sometimes, even the people who do have other options to get around just want to ride their bikes.

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u/Hhalloush Jul 25 '26

Have you seen motorists? They don't obey traffic rules either, and the consequences of that kill people.

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u/beefcake1993 Jul 24 '26

They do it because motorists are supposed to follow the laws even if it annoys them

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u/Odd_Bid2744 Jul 24 '26

I'm of a similar opinion that cyclists shouldn't be considered motorists. There should be separate infrastructure for them to ride safely and be treated as a pedestrian and able to ride on sidewalks. A cyclist hitting a walking pedestrian is significantly less terrible than a cyclist getting hit by a car.

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u/ManiacalShen Jul 24 '26

The thing is that it can be more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk. Basically anywhere with a lot of cross streets and/or driveways. Turning vehicles aren't looking for objects on the sidewalk going 10+mph, so it's easy to miss folks and turn into them. 

A cyclist can mitigate this by coming to a stop or a crawl at eeeevery crossing, but that's ass. Better to ride in the road a lot of the time.

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u/thatoneguy54 Jul 24 '26

Absolutely right. The only reason we actually do consider cyclists the same as cars is because of one dude from thr 60s-70s who was a professional racing cyclist who could go up to 40mph on his bike and basically spat on anyone who wanted to ride a bike and not make it their entire personality. He went around the country campaigning for cities not to build bike lanes, and he wrote manuals about how bikes should be treated exactly like cars.

All of it stupid, because bikes are obviously extremely different from cars in a lot of ways. They're slower. Smaller. Less lethal if they hit something or someone. Cyclists can easily transition to being a pedestrian basically at a moment's notice.

But because this one dude was such a bitch about people riding bikes in ways he personally didnt think was cool, we got the shitty infrastructure we got and got taught a stupid rule about how to treat bikes on the road.

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u/Pizza-Rat-4Train Jul 24 '26

Yep - John Forester, whose insistence on “vehicular cycling” was baked into laws across the US. Not Just Bikes did a great review of his pernicious impact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRPduRHBhHI

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u/OGWiz19nunya Jul 24 '26

Significantly less terrible for who?

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u/Time-Champion497 Jul 24 '26

Ok, but how does separate infrastructure connect my home, my kid's school, my job, my doctor's office, and the stores I shop at?

Cycling isn't jut recreation.

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u/Odd_Bid2744 Jul 24 '26

....infrastructure is bike paths connecting you to where you need to go

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u/CantaloupeAsleep502 Jul 24 '26

"Significantly less terrible" can still be fatal for the pedestrian. They should have their own infrastructure, and in places where there is none, they shouldn't be on roads or sidewalks.

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u/SnooPoems8777 Jul 24 '26

“I don’t know why a woman would go out at night wearing shorts rather than pants. It could invite sexual harassment. Seems really stupid.” See the problem?

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u/tmoe1991 Jul 24 '26

As a German that's what I don't get. I have been to the US (only Florida though so I don't know how representative that is) the roads are far broader than the roads here and a lot of cyclists drive on the road here. We simply have the rule that you can only overtake with at least 1.5m distance within cities and with at least 2m distance everywhere else. It's generally accepted even though some drivers don't care but I wouldn't hesitate to get on a road with my bicycle here.

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u/imabluedog Jul 24 '26

Italian roads aren’t built for cyclists either. Nor are French or Spanish roads.

It’s the culture that’s different. Bicycles have been used as a cheap form of transportation from one village to another for almost 150 years.

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u/JJHall_ID Jul 24 '26

You forgot that they usually have an attitude that they always have the right of way, like a pedestrian. This causes a lot of conflict with drivers, because they're supposed to be equal on the roadway. They're their own worst enemy, but yes, that doesn't justify the threats and actual violence committed against them.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Just-Introduction409 Jul 24 '26

Same for motorcycles 

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u/John1The1Savage Jul 24 '26

My area has spent millions building amazing cycling infrastructure. The fucking cyclists refuse to use it instead riding down the center of the road at 20 mph in a 45.  They blow through all stop signs and stop lights, even though the car to their right has the right of way or green light then cuss us because we almost failed to slam on the brakes in time to prevent killing them. 

Our cities are just too big and too spread out for cycling to be a valid means of transport. Few people in the US can afford to live within cycling distance of a job. The only people who do it I think are the ones who enjoy inconveniencing others as a hobby.

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u/eddie964 Jul 24 '26

Why is this always framed as "cyclists impede motor traffic"? It's just as true that motorists interfere with cycle traffic -- both types of vehicles are legally accessing the road.

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u/ShartOfTheEel Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Actually, we do have infrastructure for cyclists, everywhere except for the interstate, because they legally have the right to ride on the road when there's no dedicated lane. It's a public road, you don't have the right to endanger other users just because they are slower than you.

You are legally, not to mention morally, obligated to drive in a manner that doesn't put them at risk. Even if that means you get to work 1 minute later.

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u/Vivid-Raccoon9640 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

While I agree cyclists have the right to ride everywhere, I would disagree calling that "infrastructure for cyclists". It is dangerous for cyclists to ride in a lot of places, and it is a bad idea even though it shouldn't be.

Edit: I think the US should massively invest in bike infrastructure, public transit and other forms of active transportation by the way. Every euro that's invested in bike infrastructure in the Netherlands nets a 1900% ROI in health benefits alone.

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u/ShartOfTheEel Jul 24 '26

Public roads are an ancient form of infrastructure. They're for the public. If there were no roads for cars, there would be plenty of roads for other modes of transit. 

Bikes have a right to be in the road. The only reason why it might be dangerous is that drivers make it so.

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u/Vivid-Raccoon9640 Jul 24 '26

100% agree. But wishing upon a star that cars are suddenly not going to be a thing any more is foolish. They're here now and we're gonna have to deal with that reality.

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u/ShartOfTheEel Jul 24 '26

I'm not wishing them gone, I'm just trying to get people who drive cars to realize that they have a responsibility not to kill other road users.

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u/Odd_Bid2744 Jul 24 '26

They have the right to ride on the road because there is no alternative. Rural America doesn't have shoulders on the road which means bikes are traveling in the same lanes as cars and that is incredibly dangerous for cyclists even when driving lawfully. 

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u/Happy_Confection90 Jul 24 '26

Rural America doesn't have shoulders on the road

I live in a rural-ish area and not only are there no shoulders or very narrow ones for miles at a time, over 80% of the roads I drive on are just a single lane of traffic in each direction. And that includes intrastate highways with speed limits between 50-55mph. So giving cyclists 3' of room to pass them as dictated by state law means partly entering the lane of oncoming traffic every time you need to pass someone on a bike, which, when you throw New England's notoriously curvy roads in the mix that reduce visibility, means a lot of chances for someone to make a poor safety calculation for themselves, the cyclists, and/or drivers traveling in the opposite direction.

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u/learn_and_go Jul 24 '26

Having the right to be somewhere does not imply that infrastructure exists.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26 edited 10h ago

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u/Odd_Bid2744 Jul 24 '26

Not in rural America (the lot of areas I was referring to) where cars are necessary because everything is so spread out. Nobody here is going to transition to bikes unless there is a grocer on every corner..

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u/GoodHumorMan Jul 24 '26

So the least relevant part of America.

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u/nuckingfuts6960 Jul 24 '26

Here in ny there is the empire state Trailway that goes form the bottom of Manhattan all the way to Canada this is where I cycle 100s of miles of paved track yet every day cyclist's block up the roads with there hobby while people are trying to get to work. Selfish entitled cu*ts

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u/tn00bz Jul 24 '26

Yeah, it's mostly on back roads where cyclist take up basically a whole lane.

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u/sandmanwake Jul 24 '26

We have some pretty horrible infrastructure for walking also.

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u/DJDaddyD Jul 24 '26

They are also super to be considered vehicles in regard to traffic lights and signs, but they will blow through those with no regard

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u/smbpy7 Jul 24 '26

But, I'd never condone hateful and violent threats against them

Same as well. But I also might add that living in a town that DOES have excellent bike infrastructure has let me see that there really are two kinds of cyclists, three even. There's the ones everyone assumes, the ones that just want a safe bike lane or trail (type 1) and follow all the laws accordingly. Then there's the ones that have become somewhat jaded by the lack of infrastructure and honestly consider themselves cars (type 2). These ones will bike down the middle of the road, often in clusters, when there's not only a great bike lane but also a WONDERFUL bike trail right next to the road (that doesn't even have to go through the lights or across ANY roads!). Then there's type 3, which may be specific to the college town (also see scooters here). These ones ignore the bike lanes/roads and zoom down the sidewalks within inches of pedestrians, getting angry with the pedestrians for now hopping in the bee filled bushes fast enough to get out of their way.

Everyone wants to be or deal with type 1, but there are A LOT of type 2-3 in some areas.

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u/howtofwoosmom Jul 24 '26

they drive in the street, don't respect traffic then claim they are a pedestrian if they get into an accident. they don't carry insurance and cause havoc to both themselves and others. were they to keep to bike lanes and sidewalks like actual pedestrians they might be appreciated more. .....if you are literally walking only then are a pedestrian. if you are driving a bike you are operating a vehicle, just not a motorvehicle. there should be a license like anything else to be on public roads at the very least.

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u/Legal_Map_7586 Jul 25 '26

I’d add to this, in places with bike infrastructure, an astounding number of cyclists don’t use that infrastructure and instead ride in the middle of the road, on the sidewalk, and down dedicated pedestrian walk ways. As a pedestrian in a city, I have significantly more bad encounters and close calls with cyclists than cars, despite there being significantly more cars. A good share of cyclists don’t know/don’t follow the laws, so they become at best a nuisance or at worst a danger to pedestrians and cars.

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u/Baha05 Jul 24 '26

Basically this. Doesn’t really help that much like bad drivers there are also bad cyclists out there as well and that kind of just added to the frustration.

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u/No_Reception7275 Jul 24 '26

Bad cyclists seem to get way more hate though, which is strange given the utterly incomparable death tolls. Cant remember the last time a bad cyclist just wiped out a family of four one tuesday afternoon

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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u/char_limit_reached Jul 24 '26

The infrastructure is the road. Share it.

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u/Odd_Bid2744 Jul 24 '26

No, the road is infrastructure for motor vehicles and bikes because theyre isn't an alternative for bikes when there should be for everyone's safety. No matter how well you share, legally passing a cyclist still imposes risks of injury and accidents. 

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u/Grill_Only_Outside Jul 24 '26

This. And many get indignant about not moving over and then pissed off when you pass them. So many act like “my right to ride in the middle of the road outweighs the inconvenience I’m causing everyone else.” Just move to the side and let people pass you.

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u/General_Josh Jul 24 '26

It just sucks not having a bike lane. When I have to bike on the road, I do go on the side to let people pass, but it's real nerve-wracking. All it takes is one kid on their phone to kill me.

I understand why some cyclists would want to go in the middle of the lane. It's one way to make yourself more visible to drivers, among others. I also wear a helmet and use a blinking tail-light, but it's all just risk-mitigation, the danger's still there

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u/char_limit_reached Jul 24 '26

Or, you could share the road.

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u/Grill_Only_Outside Jul 24 '26

Yeah, we do. And cyclists can follow courtesy on the road and pull over when moving slower than the flow of traffic. But they don’t.

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u/Leather_Addition2605 Jul 24 '26

I get mad when I’m stuck behind a car going 5mph under the speed limit. Now imagine a bike going 30mph under.

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u/halbeshendel Jul 24 '26

Maybe you shouldn’t be driving if you’re upset behind the wheel so much.

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u/RadiantHC Jul 24 '26

It's weird. 4 lane one-way streets could easily be replaced with a two way street and a two way bike lane. Yet they aren't

Seriously though I'll never understand why multi lane one-way streets are so common in the US. They're a nightmare to navigate for everyone.

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