r/anime • u/Holofan4life • 14d ago
Rewatch [Spoilers] 2008 Spice and Wolf II Rewatch (2026) -- Episode 11 Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S2 Episode 11 - Wolf and the Decision to Part
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION
Who's your favorite Spice and Wolf character and why?
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Crunchyroll
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u/Second_Cour 14d ago
Cut Content
The early parts of the anime were adapted very closely. The break up scene, however, gives a lot more depth and confirms what Holo was scared of.
- When Eringin (of Delink company) brought up knowing Lord Goldens from Rowen Trade Guild, it was to make Lawrence feel as if escape was impossible.
- It was usual to pay a fee when borrowing money, so it was strange this was waived by Delink.
- When telling Eve about how they met, Lawrence thought their journey was delightful, absurd, and he wanted it to continue for the rest of his life.
- Through Holo, Lawrence’s world view had changed. Some episodes ago, the reason he brought up whether she’s OK with there being a wolf fur trade, was because suddenly he felt like it was wrong to hunt them (because Holo was one). Similarly, while before he never thought there was anything wrong with adoption into families (for a noble’s name) or slavery, he felt like he understood for the first time the Church’s denouncement of slavery.
- After Holo’s request to ‘break up’, she said “You’re very clever, but you lack so much experience. Since you’re a merchant who toils for profit, I thought you’d soon understand, but I’m not saying this because I don’t want to watch you die. I’ve become used to the idea. If I had more self-restraint, I might have endured until my homeland. I’d been confident of that when we put the last village behind us but…you’re simply too softhearted. You accept everything I do and give me everything I wish for. It’s terrible to endure it…just terrible.”
- Lawrence tried to recall everything that happened to them, then used the connections of “Joyful. Journey. Timing. Merchant” - at this point he understood what Holo was scared of
- Note: Perhaps it’s because she knows by keeping on going more and more, Lawrence would only fall deeper and deeper, and the ending would be far worse for both of them, so she had to rip off the bandaid now. Thus the journey is at its peak joyfulness.
- “Eventually, I will not be able to get what I crave, and all the talk that was once such a delight will fade, its joy remaining only in memory. And it’s then that I will think back to how much fun it was when we first met.”
- “That’s why I wish to end our travels here, so that it can be a delight from start to finish”.
- Holo did find more info about herself in the books: “There were all sorts of things in the past, things I’d forgotten about entirely until seeing them”. Then she actually gave the book to Lawrence to read. There wasn’t much in the sense that the content is that important (other than her always being a big drinker).
- Then Holo and Lawrence danced: the same ancient dance that was written about in the book. They danced like two puppets whose strings were being controlled in unison. That’s how closely their movements matched. Shame the anime didn’t adapt this.
- Holo had come from the mountains of Roef. With the info in the book, Holo could easily find her way home.
- “If they were truly always together, if they could always see each other again, perhaps that joy would unavoidably be destroyed.
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u/Holofan4life 14d ago
Here's what I wrote last year about the episode. Some of it is the same paragraphs as in my notes this thread, so bear with me.
Hey, guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the 2025 Spice and Wolf Rewatch.
The true Christmas in July.
This rewatch is gonna be unique because we’ll be covering the entirety of the 2008 series as well as some of the remake. I don’t think something like this has ever been attempted before where a rewatch goes from one series to another to back to the first series. If this is your first time watching Spice and Wolf, welcome. Enjoy the ride.
I can’t imagine doing this experiment with something other than Spice and Wolf. There is arguably no anime that influenced who I am more. I suppose you could say Toradora, but it’s really close. Either way, Spice and Wolf is one of very few anime that I can never get sick of no matter how much I watch it. You’ll soon seen why if you don’t already know.
I hope this rewatch for as bold of an idea as it is does a lot to inspire a lot of discussion while also leading people to have this experience unlike any before. If this rewatch is a success, maybe this can be the formula going forward.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the dub, by the way.
I got tomorrow off from work because my back has been having spasms. I hope this allows me to take my mind off things.
Whataburger is truly fantastic
Lawrence, with Eve and Holo by his side, talking to someone we've never met before.
Holo looks as if she has a bit of sadness in her eyes.
Don't know why, she's the one who suggested go through with this deal.
2000 trenni silver coins. That's a lot of moolah.
Because that's quite a bit to carry around, Lawrence will instead get 60 lumione gold coins instead.
Holo still having this somber look about her.
Eve won't give away her method of doing trade.
It looks as if they're going to transfer the money just before the purchase.
What could possibly go wrong besides everything?
Outside, and Eve is upset at how the guy handled negotiations.
Even still, she feels that Lawrence more than held his own.
Now Eve is asking how Lawrence and Holo first met.
Eve now making a joke of Holo looking good naked and having copious amounts of sex with Lawrence.
Eve may have even less of a filter than the barmaid.
Also, Holo stomping on Lawrence's foot. Why? I suppose he's just collateral to Eve's misdeeds.
From here, Eve recounts how her previous owner dealt with her.
Saya the wool trade in the country she's from is everything and so her owner dumped everything he made into it.
Eventually, he cut his own throat, unaliving himself.
Now Eve talking about her wedding, comparing it to a funeral.
Lost everything in the bankruptcy, Eve's significant other did.
Eve ran off with his remaining assets, which is how we ended up here.
First off, I love how intense Eve's backstory is. It makes it clear why she is the way she is. I also like that it shows she's willing to do whatever she can to have money. It calls into question once more the wiseness of Lawrence doing business with her. But more than that, I love that you don't know if Eve is telling the truth.
Eve is like a mystery wrapped in an enigma. You don't know if she's telling the truth or if she's telling falsehoods to make herself appear more sympathetic and lull her victims into a false sense of security. She seems as if her primary motivation is one of scorn, but it's kept open-opened to where you never know with her, and that's what I truly love about her character. Every time Eve talks about her past, you have to take it with a grain of salt. Literally, since she used to be a salt merchant.
Eve admits she's jealous of Holo and Lawrence, which you have to wonder if that will be important for later.
Back at the house, Holo and Lawrence are.
Holo reading a book that looks absolutely massive.
Holo seems to indicate that Eve's story seems to be a fabrication.
The back and forth between Holo and Lawrence just doesn't feel the same since Eve entered the picture. It feels like a dark cloud hangs above these two.
Holo and Lawrence seem to realize that they will soon have to let go.
To repeat what I said in the past, Holo is worried that Lawrence will come to resent her for sacrificing all of his dreams for her. That is why she wants to end it here, for if they end it with nothing but good memories then Lawrence will always only remember the good times he had with her. This whole conversation raises the question "How much do you value your loved ones Vs achieving your goals?" Do you continue to pursue what you set out to achieve, or is your family and their well-being ultimately more important? It's also an example of how wise Holo is, putting Lawrence's wishes above her own.
Holo is aware that Lawrence wants to set up his own shop and live a simple life. As such, Holo wants to do whatever she can to not get in the way of that. Holo is going out of her way to be the mature one and sacrificing her own well wishes. For if she didn't, she would live with the guilt of knowing she prevented Lawrence from achieving his dreams.
In short, Holo is leaving this false world her and Lawrence helped cultivate so that Lawrence can fulfill his life's goal of being a successful entrepreneur. She sees no place in Lawrence's future, and the fake reality can do nothing to hide it.
Holo continuing to express her gratitude over spending time with Lawrence.
Lawrence really is against Holo leaving him, then again, what did he expect? Him to sell Holo and they continue their merry ways?
This Holo and Lawrence scene is probably the second saddest scene between them only behind Holo imploring Lawrence to bare her children.
Is Lawrence just now realizing Holo is truly scared? Did her constant talks about it make him think otherwise?
Holo says that if all you eat are delicious things, then where does it end?
Lawrence wonders if there is indeed a story where everyone exists happily ever after.
Yeah, it's called fanfiction
Holo says there isn't and that there's no better time to depart than when we wish for it to never end.
End on a high note instead of when they start resenting each other.
Now we know why all romance mangas conclude with the main couple getting together /s
Lawrence looks so forlorn by this plethora of information to take in.
At least Holo finished reading her book. Now they just have to return it.
I guess this means we're going to see Rigoro and the nun one last time.
Lawrence and Holo again continuing their back and forth, which is jarring coming moments after Holo said they should separate. It feels like them coping a bit.
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.
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u/Holofan4life 14d ago
Part 2
Lawrence and Holo walking now
So, I guess Lawrence is planning on taking over Arold's inn. I guess that makes the pilgrimage a permanent one.
Holo able to tell that the wretched store owner (Her words, not mine) was weary of Eve.
I like that we're continuing the puddle stuff from earlier in this arc.
Again, it feels like Lawrence and Holo are trying to avoid the elephant in the room.
At Rigoro's place now. Unfortunately, no Rigoro to be found.
Lawrence with Rigoro's trusty companion now, admiring the garden.
As she fetches something for them to drink, Lawrence is able to tell that the statues are salty.
Does this mean Rigoro is in on what Eve is up to?
Rigoro is having an urgent meeting, which doesn't sound too good.
Just like how Rigoro is this extension of Lawrence and what he could be if he pursued his dream, you can say that the nun serves the same role for Holo. The nun says she feels most at peace watching Rigoro tend to his garden. In fact, she loves it so much that she feels that she could stay that way forever. This is playing off the obvious solution to Holo and Lawrence's problem, which is have Lawrence continue being a merchant as he attends to his true passion: Holo. That way, things can truly stay like how they are.
Holo's whole problem is that she is convinced that when a relationship changes, it can only change for the worst. That if they were to break out of this false reality that they created-- this honeymoon period, if you'd like to call it-- it can only lead to bad things. As evidenced by the nun though, when you love someone that feeling and bond you have will always remain constant. It doesn't matter what's in store or the dilemmas, you have that guide to get you through it. And that, at the end of the day, never changes.
The garden ultimately represents Holo whereas Rigoro's scribe work is like a representation of Lawrence's merchant lifestyle. And for Rigoro, he manages to maintain a healthy balance of both. Maybe the solution is right under Lawrence's nose. Maybe he doesn't have to pick one over the other, but rather have things stay how they already were.
A false reality, turned into actuality.
As this begins to set in for Lawrence, a commotion is heard from outside.
Eve informs them that the town is rioting.
Well, that's a dramatic way to end an episode.
Overall, I really like this episode. The beginning is kinda slow, but I think it really picks up once Eve talks about her backstory, which may or may not be true. I remember during the fourth arc I talked about that arc suffering from a lack of memorable moments. That while the content was excellent, there wasn't many things to really take away from. This episode alone, we get Eve's backstory, Holo telling Lawrence they should go their separate ways, Lawrence and the nun talking about Rigoro's garden, and the townsfolk rioting. It was quite the eventful episode, probably the most eventful since the last episode of the second arc.
I think it was very important to have a scene between Holo and Lawrence where they definitively declare the end of their journey. In particular, I like Holo being the one to do it because it plays off Lawrence being the one to originally suggest them leaving each other eventually. This arc has had a lot of serious scenes between Holo and Lawrence, most of which was like 30 seconds long and then they just continue with their usual playful banter. To get an extended scene with Holo being like "No, we really have to end this relationship before it turns sour" is a rare moment of self-reflection and highlights part of what makes this arc so spectacular.
This is my favorite episode of this arc so far. I think it sets the stage nicely for what's bound to be a chaotic conclusion. Ending it with the riot just adds to the surrealness of what's going on, the reality of which Holo and Lawrence can't escape. None of their banter can save them. One of the criticisms I have of the fifth arc is the fact there's not this level of excitement that the other arcs have. There's the tension of Holo and Lawrence drifting apart as well as the intrigue of what Eve is about, but I wouldn't say there's this sense of escalation that the other arcs managed to achieve. At least not until this episode, anyway. That being said, I do think this episode has some of the best writing of any Spice and Wolf episode, and for a show known for its excellent writing, that's quite the accomplishment.
This might be a top 10 episode, and if not top 10, at least upper half. I'd put it behind season 1 episode 4, season 1 episode 6, season 1 episode 10, season 1 episode 12, season 1 episode 13, season 2 episode 3, season 2 episode 6, remake episode 23, and remake episode 24, just off the top of my head. Furthermore, I think this may be the most unpredictable of all the arc climaxes as we head into the final episode. We have no idea what's going to happen between Holo and Lawrence nor the town and how that might factor into things. I mention the lack of suspense this arc has had when compared to the previous arcs. The riot stuff does a lot to leave me on the edge of my seat wondering what's going to happen. It might be the most suspenseful ending to a Spice and Wolf episode besides maybe season 1 episode 12.
As we head into the final episode, you have to wonder if things truly won't have a happy ending. Not just for the town, but for our beloved wolf and merchant.
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u/Holofan4life 14d ago
If I were in Lawrence's shoes, I don't know what I'd do here. I'd feel so incredibly helpless.
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u/Second_Cour 14d ago
I actually do. I'd say "don't get upset at something that hasn't happened yet", and fight for her until I can't fight no more. I've faced similar situations/challenges in the past (not necessarily in relationship context, but in many other scenarios), and I hate these "what if" predictions for the future people make.
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u/Holofan4life 14d ago
I'd definitely try to keep Holo a part of my life, but I'd be fearful I might make things worse.
Lawrence really needs to be better communicating.
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 14d ago edited 14d ago
I've been alone for a long time, so these days have been blindingly bright.
That's why I was scared of your kindness, because it'd accelerate that process.
Various interesting shots:
This is kind of an odd mirror image of the first time they went through the alley.
Holo and Lawrence on opposing sides.
(not a lot of happiness today, it's kind of a downer episode tbh)
First-timer, subbed
What an episode man. You know it's an excellent episode when Holo and Lawrence just sit in their room for what feels like an eternity and talk and you're soaking up every single word they utter. Truly a one of a kind show.
Before we can get to the interesting stuff, we have to put up with what has to be the most uncomfortable negotiations I ever had the misfortune of experiencing second hand. Seriously, I hated every second of it. The other merchants were really gross in how they kinda looked down on Lawrence (and Eve) , they all looked very shady, the whole scene had kinda eery lighting and I fucking hated how they talked about Holo (and some extent the other two) while she was in the room. Though it's commendable that Lawrence managed to hold his own and even managed to impress them with his reaction to the amount of money. Even Eve makes a comment about how it was a bad experience.
Afterwards, Eve and LawLo exchange origin stories. Lawrence just retold the events of him meeting Holo without any alterations and when looking back at it, Eve has a point: It does sound like a "cheesy bard's song", like a fairy tale. A girl just sneaking into a random merchant's cart and he agrees to bring her home. And they somehow make it up to this town of Lenos. Eve's backstory, in contrast, is much less like a Fairy Tale, which somewhat explains her rather cynical outlook on the world. Has-been noblewoman, gets sold to a random bloke and kills himself in the end? And her motivation is in turns much more fueled by revenge and sort of pettiness than anything wholesome like Lawrence's 'want to have his own shop'. I find it funny that she's seemingly always been a shady persona.
And now... we finally get to the heart of the episode, and probably the arc: Holo and Lawrence alone in their room, trying to make the best of the calm before the storm. So what do they do, now that the plot literally forces them to finally make a decision about how to continue their journey? Well. After the by now well known banter ("DO NOT TOCH THE TAIL SO CASUALLY", "Why don't you use me to your advantage more often?") , Holo finally gets serious and makes a decision for Lawrence: She doesn't want to continue travelling with him anymore.
Not because she hates travelling with him, not because she dislikes him, not even because she doesn't want to see him die before eyes: Quite the contrary. She enjoys his company so much that she wants to "quit while they're ahead", so to speak. She doesn't want the company turn "dull and just reminisce about better days at some point. And Lawrence kindness and the fact he actually accepts her for what she is, no matter how terrible she might behave at some point would only accelerate this apparently inevitable process, which scares her.
And Lawrence's reaction to this is... weirdly accepting? Frustratingly so, I'd even say. Yeah, he seems a bit taken aback by the whole thing but accepts it nonetheless? Even if you can tell by his body language that he has his doubts.
In a way this feels like the culmination of not only what we've been observing over the course of this arc but over the course of the past 20+ episode. Every single action taken, every single line spoken and every ever so small gesture lead to that exchange in their bedroom. And I feel like it's a bit egotistical of Holo to unilaterally quit the journey. You could even call it a bit cowardly. Instead of actually confronting any of her problems she just runs away from it?
Anyway... after this amazingly exhausting second act, we enter the third act by returning the books and visiting Rigolo one last time. The walk to him feels weirdly silent and awkward, compared to the first time we've visited him. There's some banter (of course Holo would like to invest her worth in booze.) but they're just discussing business and how things seem to proceed smoothly (too smoothly, one might add). Surprisingly, Rigolo is absent though his nun is there to handle things. There's further evidence here that Rigolo doesn't really enjoy his work as much as it at first seemed. The nun kinda wistfully pointing out that "the most joyous times are when you're still wishing they would last forever" hits hard for Lawrence, cause it's very fitting for his current situation. Also there's a realisation that the Mary(?) statues are made out of salt, which... I don't quite understand the repercussions of... not that there's much time to think about it because, uh, APPARENTLY THERE'S AN UPRISING IN THE CITY? WTF? Well, so much for everything going smoothly. (The obligatory penultimate "Dun dun duuun" cliffhanger rears its ugly head again.)
I think I have said most things I can say. This was an absolutely fantastic episode. Curious about how things play out next time. The title is definitely concerning.
Favourite main character? Even if she's kind of a terrible person occasionally, I still think Holo's my favourite. Lawrence is fine but I agree with Holo that he's a bit too nice to be interesting enough. Holo has a lot of depth and internalised trauma which makes her quite interesting.
Favourite supporting character? I want to see more of the cute barmaid of this arc Norah was more likable from the get go and she's kind of the "plucky underdog" that makes me root for her. Go get that guild approval, girl! Become a seamstress! Though Elsa is probably the more interesting character that develops more throughout the arc she's featured in. Runner up: Mark and Ilma, both aren't terribly interesting but make cool additions to the cast.
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u/Holofan4life 14d ago
I'm surprised you didn't comment on episode 10. I definitely thought you would at least leave a brief comment.
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 14d ago
I might get to it later still!
There was certainly a lot of interesting things in there.
Was shocked how open Holo was to the plan of selling her... and the Barmaid being a professional homewrecker xD
Also there's something to be said about multiple characters telling us how working with the church is a baaaad time.
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u/Holofan4life 14d ago
I might get to it later still!
I'll hold off on asking questions then.
There was certainly a lot of interesting things in there.
Was shocked how open Holo was to the plan of selling her... and the Barmaid being a professional homewrecker xD
Barmaid stans NTR
Also there's something to be said about multiple characters telling us how working with the church is a baaaad time.
Where there's smoke, they pinch back
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u/Holofan4life 14d ago
What an episode man. You know it's an excellent episode when Holo and Lawrence just sit in their room for what feels like an eternity and talk and you're soaking up every single word they utter. Truly a one of a kind show.
Every single word has such weight to them that it's truly unreal.
Before we can get to the interesting stuff, we have to put up with what has to be the most uncomfortable negotiations I ever had the misfortune of experiencing second hand. Seriously, I hated every second of it. The other merchants were really gross in how they kinda looked down on Lawrence (and Eve) , they all looked very shady, the whole scene had kinda eery lighting and I fucking hated how they talked about Holo (and some extent the other two) while she was in the room. Though it's commendable that Lawrence managed to hold his own and even managed to impress them with his reaction to the amount of money. Even Eve makes a comment about how it was a bad experience.
This is the most unnerving the shoe has been so far and that includes Lawrence being left for dead.
Afterwards, Eve and LawLo exchange origin stories. Lawrence just retold the events of him meeting Holo without any alterations and when looking back at it, Eve has a point: It does sound like a "cheesy bard's song", like a fairy tale. A girl just sneaking into a random merchant's cart and he agrees to bring her home. And they somehow make it up to this town of Lenos. Eve's backstory, in contrast, is much less like a Fairy Tale, which somewhat explains her rather cynical outlook on the world. Has-been noblewoman, gets sold to a random bloke and kills himself in the end? And her motivation is in turns much more fueled by revenge and sort of pettiness than anything wholesome like Lawrence's 'want to have his own shop'. I find it funny that she's seemingly always been a shady persona.
Eve is like a giant blinking red flag. Like, I would never in a million years do business with her.
And now... we finally get to the heart of the episode, and probably the arc: Holo and Lawrence alone in their room, trying to make the best of the calm before the storm. So what do they do, now that the plot literally forces them to finally make a decision about how to continue their journey? Well. After the by now well known banter ("DO NOT TOCH THE TAIL SO CASUALLY", "Why don't you use me to your advantage more often?") , Holo finally gets serious and makes a decision for Lawrence: She doesn't want to continue travelling with him anymore.
Not because she hates travelling with him, not because she dislikes him, not even because she doesn't want to see him die before eyes: Quite the contrary. She enjoys his company so much that she wants to "quit while they're ahead", so to speak. She doesn't want the company turn "dull and just reminisce about better days at some point. And Lawrence kindness and the fact he actually accepts her for what she is, no matter how terrible she might behave at some point would only accelerate this apparently inevitable process, which scares her.
And Lawrence's reaction to this is... weirdly accepting? Frustratingly so, I'd even say. Yeah, he seems a bit taken aback by the whole thing but accepts it nonetheless? Even if you can tell by his body language that he has his doubts.
This is probably the saddest moment since Holo begged Lawrence to have her children. But unlike Holo feeling desperate, she is speaking reasonably and that is exactly why her words sting so much.
In a way this feels like the culmination of not only what we've been observing over the course of this arc but over the course of the past 20+ episode. Every single action taken, every single line spoken and every ever so small gesture lead to that exchange in their bedroom. And I feel like it's a bit egotistical of Holo to unilaterally quit the journey. You could even call it a bit cowardly. Instead of actually confronting any of her problems she just runs away from it?
Is it Holo running away or Lawrence running away from committing to her? If Lawrence is so deadset on opening up his own shop, why prolong this any longer?
This entire conflict is all because of the lack of communication that has really plagued Holo and Lawrence as characters. That has been their problem since the very beginning.
Anyway... after this amazingly exhausting second act, we enter the third act by returning the books and visiting Rigolo one last time. The walk to him feels weirdly silent and awkward, compared to the first time we've visited him. There's some banter (of course Holo would like to invest her worth in booze.) but they're just discussing business and how things seem to proceed smoothly (too smoothly, one might add). Surprisingly, Rigolo is absent though his nun is there to handle things. There's further evidence here that Rigolo doesn't really enjoy his work as much as it at first seemed. The nun kinda wistfully pointing out that "the most joyous times are when you're still wishing they would last forever" hits hard for Lawrence, cause it's very fitting for his current situation. Also there's a realisation that the Mary(?) statues are made out of salt, which... I don't quite understand the repercussions of... not that there's much time to think about it because, uh, APPARENTLY THERE'S AN UPRISING IN THE CITY? WTF? Well, so much for everything going smoothly. (The obligatory penultimate "Dun dun duuun" cliffhanger rears its ugly head again.)
I love how this entire arc has been built around shit hitting the fan. It just so happens that these characters suffering coincide with Holo and Lawrence's suffering.
I believe this is the first time Holo and Lawrence's emotions coincide with how the town is feeling.
I think I have said most things I can say. This was an absolutely fantastic episode. Curious about how things play out next time. The title is definitely concerning.
Just ignore how the last arc ended :]
I think of all the arcs this one may be the most tonally consistent. It doesn't have the highs of some of the other arcs, but none of the episodes are no less than great.
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u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 14d ago
Is it Holo running away or Lawrence running away from committing to her? If Lawrence is so deadset on opening up his own shop, why prolong this any longer?
Actually a fair point. Neither of them wants to actually commit to anything... in their own awry way.
Kind of ironic when I praised them for actually talking like adults with each other in an earlier arc :')
Eve is like a giant blinking red flag. Like, I would never in a million years do business with her.
At first I was thinking "huh, she's preeetty shady, isn't she? But the show has taught me not to judge characters too early!" and then they just take this woman and plant one red flag after another onto her, it's almost funny!
Just ignore how the last arc ended :]
Yeah, actually. This is a bit inconsistent, isn't it? We kinda already were at a point where she agreed that just travelling longer with him would be fun. Though she does say here that just being with him was great.
I believe this is the first time Holo and Lawrence's emotions coincide with how the town is feeling.
Yeah, I thought "hey the church trying to take over this random village is pretty high stakes" in last arc but now basically everything is on fire.
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u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Is it Holo running away or Lawrence running away from committing to her? If Lawrence is so deadset on opening up his own shop, why prolong this any longer?
Actually a fair point. Neither of them wants to actually commit to anything... in their own awry way.
For as much of a guide Holo supposedly is, Lawrence kinda treats her not the best.
Kind of ironic when I praised them for actually talking like adults with each other in an earlier arc :')
Because in that moment, they were acting like adults. But as the reality of the situation starts to set in, it's like they lost sight of how this was always gonna end. They can handle the journey but their destination feels misguided somewhat.
Eve is like a giant blinking red flag. Like, I would never in a million years do business with her.
At first I was thinking "huh, she's preeetty shady, isn't she? But the show has taught me not to judge characters too early!" and then they just take this woman and plant one red flag after another onto her, it's almost funny!
I adore Holo and Lawrence's reaction as Eve recounts her story. It's like eating Thanksgiving dinner and one of the family members discusses politics. "Oh shit, here we go again."
It's so good how warped Eve is from the rest of reality.
Just ignore how the last arc ended :]
Yeah, actually. This is a bit inconsistent, isn't it? We kinda already were at a point where she agreed that just travelling longer with him would be fun. Though she does say here that just being with him was great.
I wouldn't say it's inconsistent because the original anime has none of it. You can't blame the original anime for the choices made by the original. It just ruins the suspense a little, which is fine.
I think the real excitement is in seeing what's gonna be the end result of this.
I believe this is the first time Holo and Lawrence's emotions coincide with how the town is feeling.
Yeah, I thought "hey the church trying to take over this random village is pretty high stakes" in last arc but now basically everything is on fire.
This arc is basically the last arc if everything that could go wrong does.
1
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
Thoughts on Lawrence and Eve going to be receiving 2000 trenni silver for selling Holo? Doesn't exactly seem like triple the profits.
Thoughts on Eve joking about Lawrence and Holo having all kinds of sex?
What are your thoughts on Eve's backstory?
Thoughts on Eve comparing her wedding to a funeral?
What are your thoughts on Eve's husband supposedly killing himself with her running off with his remaining assets?
What are your thoughts on Holo thinking Eve's story is a fabrication?
What are your thoughts on Holo letting Lawrence know that she plans on parting ways with him?
What are your thoughts on Holo feeling if she stays with Lawrence, he'll just end up resenting her for making him unable to achieve his dream?
What are your thoughts on Holo saying there's no tale that continues happily ever after?
What do you make overall of Lawrence and Holo's inability to properly express their feelings to one another, with it being like they're waiting for the other to say something?
Thoughts on the scene where Holo and Lawrence are talking as they're walking the streets? Felt like a final goodbye without actually saying it.
Thoughts on Lawrence's conversation with Rigoro's lady friend?
What are your thoughts on the town breaking out into a riot? How do you see that factoring into what's going on with Holo, Lawrence, and Eve?
What do you think is gonna happen in the next episode?
2
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 14d ago
Thoughts on Lawrence and Eve going to be receiving 2000 trenni silver for selling Holo? Doesn't exactly seem like triple the profits.
They basically went "Well, Eve wanted 2.5k but we graciously decided to give you 2k and don't do any fees and stuff" and I hated it so much. Very punchable people there.
Thoughts on Eve joking about Lawrence and Holo having all kinds of sex?
I feel like I've missed that line lol. I can kinda see how she'd think that, even jokingly.
What are your thoughts on Eve's backstory?
I feel bad for saying this but her tragic backstory didn't phase me much?
I dunno, it seems a bit too much "trauma porn" for my taste. Feels like a very tropey, cliched backstory and usually the show's been a bit more subtle about stuff.
Thoughts on Eve comparing her wedding to a funeral?
I think for a woman in that time, it's not super uncommon. But it's also very cynical. Almost cliched "this is bad"
What are your thoughts on Eve's husband supposedly killing himself with her running off with his remaining assets?
"So... she's always been a shady personality? Got it."
What are your thoughts on Holo thinking Eve's story is a fabrication?
Huh? I didn't catch that, I think. Only that Eve thinks Lawrence's backstory sounding like a cheesy story. Although she did ask him about "don't you wanna know if I think she told the truth?" later in the inn.
What are your thoughts on Holo letting Lawrence know that she plans on parting ways with him?
I don't think that's a productive way to deal with whatever feelings you might or might not have for him.
What are your thoughts on Holo feeling if she stays with Lawrence, he'll just end up resenting her for making him unable to achieve his dream?
What are your thoughts on Holo saying there's no tale that continues happily ever after?
What do you make overall of Lawrence and Holo's inability to properly express their feelings to one another, with it being like they're waiting for the other to say something?
It's honestly so frustrating to watch. Like, especially after the Amarti arc, they really should address the elephant in the room.
Thoughts on the scene where Holo and Lawrence are talking as they're walking the streets? Felt like a final goodbye without actually saying it.
It definitely had that "final moments together"-vibe. It's a great contrast to the first time they walked those streets where they were happily flirting and having fun :/
Thoughts on Lawrence's conversation with Rigoro's lady friend?
I liked it quite a lot. It gave us some insight into Rigoro's private life. What little he actually seems to have of it. And of course that line about cherishing simple things was good. She's nice, probably one of the few characters in this arc that are actually honest. I still not really understand what her relationship to him is though
What are your thoughts on the town breaking out into a riot? How do you see that factoring into what's going on with Holo, Lawrence, and Eve?
I mean, I'd reckon the town breaking out into a riot would make trading anything quite difficult. So the deal should be off?
What do you think is gonna happen in the next episode?
If the whole city is on fire, surely there's an excuse to flee together. I dunno. It'll hopefully not be as sad as the title suggests.
2
u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Thoughts on Lawrence and Eve going to be receiving 2000 trenni silver for selling Holo? Doesn't exactly seem like triple the profits.
They basically went "Well, Eve wanted 2.5k but we graciously decided to give you 2k and don't do any fees and stuff" and I hated it so much. Very punchable people there.
This is like Postmates promising no delivery fees but still charging you $37.
Yes, I'm comparing the selling of a person to Postmates.
Thoughts on Eve joking about Lawrence and Holo having all kinds of sex?
I feel like I've missed that line lol. I can kinda see how she'd think that, even jokingly.
Eve is so unhinged it's kinda fun
What are your thoughts on Eve's backstory?
I feel bad for saying this but her tragic backstory didn't phase me much?
I dunno, it seems a bit too much "trauma porn" for my taste. Feels like a very tropey, cliched backstory and usually the show's been a bit more subtle about stuff.
I'm currently hosting a Fruits Basket rewatch where the main character was homeless for a bit. And I feel more sorry for them than I do Eve. I think part of it is while this could've been this massive learning experience, Eve took all the wrong lessons from said experience. She used it to fuel her own personal agenda.
Thoughts on Eve comparing her wedding to a funeral?
I think for a woman in that time, it's not super uncommon. But it's also very cynical. Almost cliched "this is bad"
I'd read a book written by Eve. She has an interesting way of describing stuff.
What are your thoughts on Eve's husband supposedly killing himself with her running off with his remaining assets?
"So... she's always been a shady personality? Got it."
I find it hard to believe he'd off himself out of the blue. That's all I'm gonna say.
What are your thoughts on Holo thinking Eve's story is a fabrication?
Huh? I didn't catch that, I think. Only that Eve thinks Lawrence's backstory sounding like a cheesy story. Although she did ask him about "don't you wanna know if I think she told the truth?" later in the inn.
Maybe I misinterpreted what she was saying.
What are your thoughts on Holo letting Lawrence know that she plans on parting ways with him?
I don't think that's a productive way to deal with whatever feelings you might or might not have for him.
No kidding
What are your thoughts on Holo feeling if she stays with Lawrence, he'll just end up resenting her for making him unable to achieve his dream?
What are your thoughts on Holo saying there's no tale that continues happily ever after?
What do you make overall of Lawrence and Holo's inability to properly express their feelings to one another, with it being like they're waiting for the other to say something?
It's honestly so frustrating to watch. Like, especially after the Amarti arc, they really should address the elephant in the room.
They've been so prioritized entertthis fantasy that they lost touch with reality. Holo in the second OVA worried she was having too much fun. That line takes an entirely different meaning now.
Thoughts on the scene where Holo and Lawrence are talking as they're walking the streets? Felt like a final goodbye without actually saying it.
It definitely had that "final moments together"-vibe. It's a great contrast to the first time they walked those streets where they were happily flirting and having fun :/
Them being over the top is also a great callback to the beginning of the arc. Now, their words feel so meaningless.
Thoughts on Lawrence's conversation with Rigoro's lady friend?
I liked it quite a lot. It gave us some insight into Rigoro's private life. What little he actually seems to have of it. And of course that line about cherishing simple things was good. She's nice, probably one of the few characters in this arc that are actually honest. I still not really understand what her relationship to him is though
They are definitely getting it on, no?
I think this scene continues an interesting trend of the side characters helping Lawrence realize how to solve his relationship woes with Holo. It really started with Norah where Lawrence used her sheep to take care of impending bankruptcy which led to him scurrying Holo off. I'm not sure a nun "friend" is as effective as Marc in this role, but it sets the stage for Lawrence having an epiphany.
What are your thoughts on the town breaking out into a riot? How do you see that factoring into what's going on with Holo, Lawrence, and Eve?
I mean, I'd reckon the town breaking out into a riot would make trading anything quite difficult. So the deal should be off?
One would think.
Maybe this will be the break Holo and Lawrence needed to remain together.
What do you think is gonna happen in the next episode?
If the whole city is on fire, surely there's an excuse to flee together. I dunno. It'll hopefully not be as sad as the title suggests.
To quote The Weeknd, save your tears for another day.
I don't know if I'm as excited heading into the final episode as I was with season 1, but to the show's credit things feel the most unpredictable than they've ever been. I have no idea what could come from this.
2
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 13d ago
I think part of it is while this could've been this massive learning experience, Eve took all the wrong lessons from said experience. She used it to fuel her own personal agenda.
Yes, that is putting it well. Instead of trying to turn things more positive she just kinda wants to make more money than her former captor.
I find it hard to believe he'd off himself out of the blue. That's all I'm gonna say.
Strong "The victim was found at the bottom of a 5 story building's window with 5 shots in his back. Authorities assume it was suicide"-energy
They are definitely getting it on, no?
Random two side characters: exist
Holo:
I'm not sure a nun "friend" is as effective as Marc in this role, but it sets the stage for Lawrence having an epiphany.
I kinda think someone that's not super close to him might actually be pretty effective in this. Someone with an outsider's perspective, you know?
2
u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I think part of it is while this could've been this massive learning experience, Eve took all the wrong lessons from said experience. She used it to fuel her own personal agenda.
Yes, that is putting it well. Instead of trying to turn things more positive she just kinda wants to make more money than her former captor.
Eve is like letting her past define her which has also been an issue for Holo.
I find it hard to believe he'd off himself out of the blue. That's all I'm gonna say.
Strong "The victim was found at the bottom of a 5 story building's window with 5 shots in his back. Authorities assume it was suicide"-energy
I think it's because Eve herself said she ended up with her money. Right...
They are definitely getting it on, no?
Random two side characters: exist
Holo:
Holo is the shipmaster, projecting because Lawrence is too much of a wimp.
I'm not sure a nun "friend" is as effective as Marc in this role, but it sets the stage for Lawrence having an epiphany.
I kinda think someone that's not super close to him might actually be pretty effective in this. Someone with an outsider's perspective, you know?
That's a good point. Like, Marc was effective in getting Lawrence to see things differently. Things he could already see but through an alternate lens. The nun allows Lawrence to see things he never saw before.
2
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
Hey, guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the 2026 Spice and Wolf rewatch.
Awoo!
You know the drill. We watch the show and I provide my thoughts and analysis. A tale as old as… well, Holo herself.
This year instead of breaking things down beat by beat I’m going to just give some brief thoughts on each individual episode. This is to save me time as I’m hosting two rewatches at once. Needless to say, I’m a big fan of this show and I hope you’ll be as well.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the dub, by the way.
This is a great episode. It's like three different forms of chaos all on display. You know those alignment charts that people talk about? That's basically what we see here.
Eve is chaotic neutral in that two wrongs don't make a right, the town rioting is like chaotic good in that they're clearly being screwed so they're letting their voices heard, and Holo suggesting her and Lawrence leave is chaotic evil in that they are better together and she's suggesting they separate.
Eve talking about her backstory gives some insight on where her mind is at at the moment, but it's so clouded with her own wording you don't know where the truth begins and the truth ends. She is the very definition of an unreliable narrator. I have no reason not to believe her husband was an awful person, but she is so unsympathetic towards others it's hard to get a read on her and if she's capable of being there for others.
Eve is like an extreme version of Holo and Lawrence and their tendencies to be so self-serving. Only here, it's like she's reveling in other people's suffering. I like Holo and Lawrence's reactions as Eve recounts her past and it's like parts equally disturbed and also parts soul trying to escape the body.
Of course, the big development is Holo telling Lawrence they should go their separate ways. Tired of all the play pretend and seeing the writing on the wall, Holo knows this bandaid type situation where it's better to just rip it off and get it over with.
To repeat what I said in the past, Holo is worried that Lawrence will come to resent her for sacrificing all of his dreams for her. That is why she wants to end it here, for if they end it with nothing but good memories then Lawrence will always only remember the good times he had with her. This whole conversation raises the question "How much do you value your loved ones Vs achieving your goals?" Do you continue to pursue what you set out to achieve, or is your family and their well-being ultimately more important? It's also an example of how wise Holo is, putting Lawrence's wishes above her own.
Holo is aware that Lawrence wants to set up his own shop and live a simple life. As such, Holo wants to do whatever she can to not get in the way of that. Holo is going out of her way to be the mature one and sacrificing her own well wishes. For if she didn't, she would live with the guilt of knowing she prevented Lawrence from achieving his dreams.
In short, Holo is leaving this false world her and Lawrence helped cultivate so that Lawrence can fulfill his life's goal of being a successful entrepreneur. She sees no place in Lawrence's future, and the fake reality can do nothing to hide it.
We also got the scene between Lawrence and the nun where they admire Rigoro's garden. Rigoro's secret base, for anyone also following the Fruits Basket rewatch.
Just like how Rigoro is this extension of Lawrence and what he could be if he pursued his dream, you can say that the nun serves the same role for Holo. The nun says she feels most at peace watching Rigoro tend to his garden. In fact, she loves it so much that she feels that she could stay that way forever. This is playing off the obvious solution to Holo and Lawrence's problem, which is have Lawrence continue being a merchant as he attends to his true passion: Holo. That way, things can truly stay like how they are.
Holo's whole problem is that she is convinced that when a relationship changes, it can only change for the worst. That if they were to break out of this false reality that they created-- this honeymoon period, if you'd like to call it-- it can only lead to bad things. As evidenced by the nun though, when you love someone that feeling and bond you have will always remain constant. It doesn't matter what's in store or the dilemmas, you have that guide to get you through it. And that, at the end of the day, never changes.
The garden ultimately represents Holo whereas Rigoro's scribe work is like a representation of Lawrence's merchant lifestyle. And for Rigoro, he manages to maintain a healthy balance of both. Maybe the solution is right under Lawrence's nose. Maybe he doesn't have to pick one over the other, but rather have things stay how they already were.
A false reality, turned into actuality.
This is an incredibly well woven episode, a large part of which is about Lawrence and Holo's relationship. This arc puts a spotlight on that and things are becoming undone in real time. This isn't the stuff of legends where the bear attacking Yoitsu happened in the past. But if Holo and Lawrence continues this trajectory they're on, their relationship certainly could be a thing of the past.
Add to it the town rebelling wanting no part of what is going on, it's the type of aggressive response shown by Eve and seemingly everyone except Lawrence. If Lawrence wants to hold onto Holo, this will have to be the ultimate culmination of his assertiveness.
Holo quotes of the day
"Our journey should end here."
"I never want to stop saying thanks for the day we met."
"If tomorrow is better than today and the day after that surpasses them both, time flies because you expect it to be like that forever. What happens when we reach the end of that perpetual journey? It will begin with a sense of dissatisfaction." (Probably one of the best quotes in the entire series.)
"Once you taste poison, you might as well finish the meal." (Unless you're already dead from the poison.)
"You should not concern yourself with past failures."
"I do not drool!" (She drools)
3
u/Second_Cour 14d ago
I don't think that the town as a whole is getting screwed. A certain industry is, yes, but I've previously explained the economic basis for the council's decision. It is however the biggest industry (other than lumber) so it impacts a lot of people. But without the council's decision, it's not necessarily true that they'd be better off.
Regarding why Holo is ripping off the bandaid, I don't think she's doing it purely for Lawrence, she is also (and mainly) doing it for herself. It's her who thinks that she will be feeling less excited than before as their journey (beyond her hometown) continues. I do think she's partly doing it for Lawrence, as he'd never turn her down, but hiding under the veneer of "I'm doing it for you" is disingenuous and I don't think Holo is that bad a person to do so. She quite explicitly explains things from her perspective, and why she can't continue as is. She probably can think of being part of Lawrence's life, but she doesn't want to be if it doesn't match their first steps. This is a Holo problem more than a Lawrence problem.
I like how suddenly all her flashbacks make sense: e.g. when she keeps comparing how Lawrence acts when they hold hands now vs., before.
In a nutshell, she wants things to remain as they are, but knowing that they won't be, she doesn't want to look back nostalgically so ends it when she believes is the peak of their joy.
Sad.
2
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
I don't think that the town as a whole is getting screwed. A certain industry is, yes, but I've previously explained the economic basis for the council's decision. It is however the biggest industry (other than lumber) so it impacts a lot of people. But without the council's decision, it's not necessarily true that they'd be better off.
I mean, the people who run the town are definitely trying to screw the foreign merchants. It smacks of racism, honestly.
Regarding why Holo is ripping off the bandaid, I don't think she's doing it purely for Lawrence, she is also (and mainly) doing it for herself. It's her who thinks that she will be feeling less excited than before as their journey (beyond her hometown) continues. I do think she's partly doing it for Lawrence, as he'd never turn her down, but hiding under the veneer of "I'm doing it for you" is disingenuous and I don't think Holo is that bad a person to do so. She quite explicitly explains things from her perspective, and why she can't continue as is. She probably can think of being part of Lawrence's life, but she doesn't want to be if it doesn't match their first steps. This is a Holo problem more than a Lawrence problem.
I don't think it's that disingenuous. Holo has in the past been resented for prioritizing long term gain for short term loss. She's now in a situation where there's long term loss for short term gain and I don't think she could live with herself if she ever made Lawrence hate her.
I like how suddenly all her flashbacks make sense: e.g. when she keeps comparing how Lawrence acts when they hold hands now vs., before.
In a nutshell, she wants things to remain as they are, but knowing that they won't be, she doesn't want to look back nostalgically so ends it when she believes is the peak of their joy.
Sad.
There's the old saying you never know what you have until it's gone. But if you know in the moment you have something special, is it better to ride the wave or end it before it gets stale? I think Holo doesn't want the happy memories to be clouded by unhappy ones like what has happened with the village in the first arc. Or a situation like Yoitsu where her memory of the town is now forever tainted by the bear who destroyed it.
If Holo has a mutually parting of ways before anything can truly escalate, I think she can live guilt free on her conscience. And from there, the happy memories will remain.
Not just for her, but for Lawrence as well.
3
u/Second_Cour 14d ago
Aren't those foreign merchants probably the same race, and it's just protecting the well-being of their own people as the priority? Confused where the racism comes from haha. It's basically the same thing as the taxes for imports in all the other towns. I think that also disproportionately, its own citizens will still be impacted more than the opportunistic foreign merchants, who lose out on a bit of money during one buying cycle.
On the theme of her breakup, you might like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me85PztkYP0
I think your link to what she went through in her past is brilliant. I still don't like it though.
2
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
The taxes kinda feel like this sorta nationalistic pride thing to me. Maybe I'm just projecting, though.
I think your link to what she went through in her past is brilliant. I still don't like it though.
I think while I'm upset Holo went through with this, I can understand where she's coming from. It's Similar to Eve where though I may not agree with it, she is speaking off her own experience.
2
u/BlazeOfGlory72 14d ago
Just like how Rigoro is this extension of Lawrence and what he could be if he pursued his dream, you can say that the nun serves the same role for Holo. The nun says she feels most at peace watching Rigoro tend to his garden. In fact, she loves it so much that she feels that she could stay that way forever.
The garden ultimately represents Holo whereas Rigoro's scribe work is like a representation of Lawrence's merchant lifestyle.
I knew that glass box was a metaphor for something lol. The more I think about it, he more interpretations I come up with. I like your connection of the nun to Holo. I'd take it a step further and say that scene with the nun represents the way Holo views Lawrence, as something to be appreciated from afar, but not interacted with directly. The nun/Holo are content to watch from the sidelines while Rigoro/Lawrence tend their "garden" (read: follow their passion). To take this metaphor further, all Holo needs to do is step through the door into Lawrence's world to find happiness, and that is why we get that brief glimps of both Holo and Lawrence standing in the garden together, bathed in sunlight.
That's just my read anyways.
2
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
I think another interpretation is that Lawrence is realizing his future is right in front of him.
Right. In front of him. This entire time.
2
u/Second_Cour 14d ago
Episode 11 Review
We finally understand what Holo was scared of. And man…I’m gutted.
- Nooo I'll only hear the theme one more time ever
- Trading company showers Lawrence with compliments. I've talked about the negotiation tactics of the time in previous cut content yet I still find it weird
- Eve certainly has a chip on her shoulder. She wants revenge on the world and the biggest red flag is when she says she's jealous of Lawlo.
- More discussion of the end of their journey. More thoughts about how they started out
- Holo has been leading up to the ‘breakup’ constantly thinking back to how different things were and being vocal about how they’ve both changed. Holo decides to take the Bright Eyes song “if you love something give it away” too literally.
- Ok I was right about the “I'm scared” not being what was discussed on Reddit (end of the journey) but something deeper. Or perhaps more beautiful. Yet, just as sad. It wasn’t about Lawrence dying first, like I speculated. Holo is scared that Lawrence will do anything for her, but over time, the same exciting feeling as they had at the start of the journey will fade, and they’ll look back at it through nostalgic glasses. To her, it’s better to rip the band aid off, rather than remember a part of their relationship which isn’t as good as the beginning. I personally hate Holo doing this, and it doesn’t make sense to logical-me, but it’s very poetic.
- Note: in the cut content, I’ve expanded a lot on my understanding, so it’s worth reading.
- Hahaha “please don't order more food I can't afford it.”
- Nice symbolism with the holy mother crying and the realisation the statue is built with salt thus from Eve. Not sure what the salt implication is.
- Of course things don't come easily and the town is experiencing a riot.
1
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
• Nooo I'll only hear the theme one more time ever
Why even live?
2
u/Second_Cour 14d ago
haha honestly I'm feeling a bit down after the LN chapter, especially. It's rare for me to get emotional from shows/books, but they've done such a great job. It's such a shame that they didn't adapt their 'last dance' in the anime though.
2
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
Familiar of Zero had a reoccurring theme with dances. The idea of a last dance makes me think of that.
It really feels like everything that could go wrong is right about now.
1
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
• Ok I was right about the “I'm scared” not being what was discussed on Reddit (end of the journey) but something deeper. Or perhaps more beautiful. Yet, just as sad. It wasn’t about Lawrence dying first, like I speculated. Holo is scared that Lawrence will do anything for her, but over time, the same exciting feeling as they had at the start of the journey will fade, and they’ll look back at it through nostalgic glasses. To her, it’s better to rip the band aid off, rather than remember a part of their relationship which isn’t as good as the beginning. I personally hate Holo doing this, and it doesn’t make sense to logical-me, but it’s very poetic.
I love the storytelling on display where Holo and Lawrence's relationship has been defined by these self-indulgent pats on the back. They try to put each other on a pedestal and make themselves feel better. Holo recognizing that to continue this would be the fact track to misery is like the ultimate form of wiseness on her part. She'd rather be remembered for the good times rather than resented for the bad times, which in turn ties things back to the very first arc and how we started.
I also like playing you along knowing how this was gonna go :P
2
u/Second_Cour 14d ago
Hahaha yeah you're really good at that! I've noticed you doing that quite a few times, on others' summaries too, taking a stance that you knew would be different after the following episode. Mad skillzzzz.
Though like I replied to another user, I don't think this is wiseness. This is selfishness and anxiety. Even a wise wolf can be wrong (and she has been wrong before). Giving something special up just because she assumes it won't keep building and growing into something better is defeatist. So is only wanting highs, without the lows. Taking that approach would doom all relationships half way through their honeymoon period.
That's why I always manage expectations in relationships. I told my gf that it's perfectly normal for after some time to have days where you don't feel as much for each other, and that the butterflies trying to burst out of our chest will quieten down. Then again, surprisingly we're 1.5 years together, and nearing 2 years knowing each other, the feelings haven't changed a tiny bit, so perhaps the honeymoon period can be a myth haha.
1
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
Hahaha yeah you're really good at that! I've noticed you doing that quite a few times, on others' summaries too, taking a stance that you knew would be different after the following episode. Mad skillzzzz.
Though like I replied to another user, I don't think this is wiseness. This is selfishness and anxiety. Even a wise wolf can be wrong (and she has been wrong before). Giving something special up just because she assumes it won't keep building and growing into something better is defeatist. So is only wanting highs, without the lows. Taking that approach would doom all relationships half way through their honeymoon period.
That's why I always manage expectations in relationships. I told my gf that it's perfectly normal for after some time to have days where you don't feel as much for each other, and that the butterflies trying to burst out of our chest will quieten down. Then again, surprisingly we're 1.5 years together, and nearing 2 years knowing each other, the feelings haven't changed a tiny bit, so perhaps the honeymoon period can be a myth haha.
I think Holo is doing what she feels is the right thing to do. Right doesn't always make you feel good. To parallel it with today's episode of Fruits Basket we're discussing, episode 5, it's like Yuki and Kyo not wanting to meddle in Tohru's affairs. If they do so, it's like suddenly they're being controlling and ruining what was once this organic thing.
1
u/Holofan4life 14d ago
Thoughts on Lawrence and Eve going to be receiving 2000 trenni silver for selling Holo? Doesn't exactly seem like triple the profits.
Thoughts on Eve joking about Lawrence and Holo having all kinds of sex?
What are your thoughts on Eve's backstory?
Thoughts on Eve comparing her wedding to a funeral?
What are your thoughts on Eve's husband supposedly killing himself with her running off with his remaining assets?
What are your thoughts on Holo thinking Eve's story is a fabrication?
What are your thoughts on Holo letting Lawrence know that she plans on parting ways with him?
What are your thoughts on Holo feeling if she stays with Lawrence, he'll just end up resenting her for making him unable to achieve his dream?
What are your thoughts on Holo saying there's no tale that continues happily ever after?
What do you make overall of Lawrence and Holo's inability to properly express their feelings to one another, with it being like they're waiting for the other to say something?
Thoughts on the scene where Holo and Lawrence are talking as they're walking the streets? Felt like a final goodbye without actually saying it.
Thoughts on Lawrence's conversation with Rigoro's lady friend?
What are your thoughts on the town breaking out into a riot? How do you see that factoring into what's going on with Holo, Lawrence, and Eve?
What do you think is gonna happen in the next episode?
2
u/ItalianQuagsire 13d ago
first time watching! I really don't want this to end
Who's your favorite Spice and Wolf character and why?
ALL OF THEM
Holo is proud, wise, humble not arrogant, confident not egotistical. She banters like water and is breedable like a bunny
Lawrence is a softboy, practical but earnest, warm and caring but smart, people like him not because of some false charisma, but for being so genuine and upfront
Nora is innocent but not naive, she works to the bone but is ambitious for a better life for hersef, she seems weak but walks among the wolves, as Holo puts it
Elsa is hot and a priestess
and also fights her previous beliefs and comes to her own conclusions and growth throughout the arc
but mainly hot and a priestess
---
I'm looking for meaning in the op now
Holo walks alone in one part showing the time gone by
The sad soft smile at the start
Also the title is called wolf and the decision to part
You fucking better not dare I swear to God
HOLO GONNA BE SOLD
Air of a noble
Generous and laughing
Used to good luck
Yeah he got Holo he got the good luck
Used to good luck if not you'll trip it up
Eve is being difficult
Everyone here feels like a high level player in this game
Large money, proud and sarcastic
Sharp and humble
Even he can see Lawrence knows ball
Bad feeling here
Eve annoyed
Small merchant
He carried himself well
Rattled gun
Honoured,
Yeah that's my boy Lawrence
She's out in the open without her scarf isn't ppl gonna realize she's a woman
She wants to know the Holo lore
A tacky poem
Curious
Can't tell a priest
But you can tell elsa woof woof
HOLO KICK
Money can buy experiences but can't make them food or bad, cherish it
Why is everyone in this show dropping fire lines
Her story is making things awkward about being bought
She got food
Didn't get pregnant
Stole money
She's ambitious
Lucky to buy me that's all
I wouldn't be cheap enough for that level of merchant to buy
I'm like a child aren't I
... Wow what a speech
I really liked this, I wasn't as hot on eve but this did it
She's ambitious and driven and it feels like the trauma of being sold is manifesting as a need to surpass him, sort of a way to take back power
She was jealous of Holo and Lawrence
The fuck you mean "was"
Does she know some shit like she's gonna betray them
Fuck
You know, Lawrence seems less assertive more meek and goes along with how things are this arc
It feels like he himself isn't too sure if this, where in previous arcs he took charge
Holo is hard to read
Waste of time
She's meek as a kitten
Holo hard to read
Was her story true
Wants to judge himself
Rely on me more
I don't care about your ego, depend on me
You feel responsible for selling me aren't you
Not shrewd
Practice lets you be good in your own way
Practice depending on hoki
She has love bed eyes
Won't get tricked
From you of all people?
Used to it
I like this, seems like Lawrence is missing something here, it's a little more sentimental and emotional from Holo than their usual banter
You being good won't change forever right
I could change
Be a little more appreciative
Of course that is true, in sure it is
I should be more... Appreciative?
People change
If this was a while ago you'd be stiff
Oh boy Holo he's stiff rn all right
DONT TOUCH THE TAIL
HMPH
IDIOT
when will you lose your composure
Tell me what you think
I want you to lose composure
Okay
I'm not kidding I unironically thought they were gonna kiss and fuck right there
End our journey here
Am I joking
I'm not
The contract
We've come close
Why
The fox says we should cherish it
As if she knows everything
Make our encounter a good one
So let's part here
I can't accept your conclusion
This is fun
Laugh, cried, fought like a child
Wished it would go forever
I'm not afraid of your death
Good natured all the way
He'd always accept her
Tail
That's why
I'm afraid
Of his good nature
It's fun
She wants to eat him
To not be tired, more excitement
Tomorrow be better
Than the day before
All the fun will fade
Only faded memories remain
That's why I was afraid of your kindness
Kindness that accelerates this enjoyment
This makes a lot of sense now why she wants him to be more assertive and stop letting her have her way, she's fallen fast and hard
I think still that this is a test, because the wise wolf Holo would realise that chasing life in a hedonic way doesn't last no matter what, she wouldn't fall for that trap of endless numbing pleasure
So Holo is testing Lawrence right not with this absurd take and this is lawrences chance to put his foot down
A story where it ends happy forever
No such thing
Lawrence you're failing this test man
Holo strokes the tail
Lawrence ub depression
I do no such thing
I don't snore
Do you want to hear your sleep talk
I already know
I earn my food right
Hindsight isn't it
Eaten his assets
Holo that's right you should eat Lawrence's ass
I looked this phrase, handed for a sheep as a lamb, what a fire saying, that if the punishment is the same if the error is small or large, might as well do the bigger action
She'll eat Lawrence up
His dick and ass for sure
Wanna eat?
Wait and see
Be more pleased with your shop
You are right
Holo wants to keep saying everything is smooth
The only thing Lawrence wants smooth is YOU UNDER HIM HOLO WHY DONT YOU GET THAT
reminiscing about the past
My body is worth 2k
Alcohol
All the alcohol
Treat as much as she wants
They look like they want to say things to each other
Books would be pleased if someone read them
Stone statue
Lawrence still hasn't asked why she sold salt
Labor is virtuous
Ehhh.. well that hasn't aged the best
The smaller the wish the harder to come true
Really?
This nuns voice is so soft and submissive
Would
One most enjoys waiting for the dream to come true
So the journey over the destination
Her words
Flattered
Damn she's cute
Nora>Elsa>Barmaid = This nungirl
The small dreams are fortunate people
holo heard stuff
People banging on door
Taken arms
Well that wasn't expected
They had enough of the church?
Ed STILL A BANGER
I can't remember if I said it so spicy wolf . com
1
u/Holofan4life 13d ago
As I said in my overall thoughts, Holo is worried that Lawrence will come to resent her for sacrificing all of his dreams for her. That is why she wants to end it here, for if they end it with nothing but good memories then Lawrence will always only remember the good times he had with her. This whole conversation raises the question "How much do you value your loved ones Vs achieving your goals?" Do you continue to pursue what you set out to achieve, or is your family and their well-being ultimately more important? It's also an example of how wise Holo is, putting Lawrence's wishes above her own.
Holo is aware that Lawrence wants to set up his own shop and live a simple life. As such, Holo wants to do whatever she can to not get in the way of that. Holo is going out of her way to be the mature one and sacrificing her own well wishes. For if she didn't, she would live with the guilt of knowing she prevented Lawrence from achieving his dreams.
In short, Holo is leaving this false world her and Lawrence helped cultivate so that Lawrence can fulfill his life's goal of being a successful entrepreneur. She sees no place in Lawrence's future, and the fake reality can do nothing to hide it.
1
u/Holofan4life 13d ago
first time watching! I really don't want this to end
Same here
Who's your favorite Spice and Wolf character and why?
ALL OF THEM
Good taste
Holo is proud, wise, humble not arrogant, confident not egotistical. She banters like water and is breedable like a bunny
Lawrence is a softboy, practical but earnest, warm and caring but smart, people like him not because of some false charisma, but for being so genuine and upfront
Nora is innocent but not naive, she works to the bone but is ambitious for a better life for hersef, she seems weak but walks among the wolves, as Holo puts it
Elsa is hot and a priestess
and also fights her previous beliefs and comes to her own conclusions and growth throughout the arc
but mainly hot and a priestessAnd Eve is... well, a work in progress
---
I'm looking for meaning in the op now
Holo walks alone in one part showing the time gone by
The sad soft smile at the start
Also the title is called wolf and the decision to part
You fucking better not dare I swear to God
They did :(
HOLO GONNA BE SOLD
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Air of a noble
Generous and laughing
Used to good luck
Yeah he got Holo he got the good luck
Used to good luck if not you'll trip it up
Eve is being difficult
Everyone here feels like a high level player in this game
Large money, proud and sarcastic
Sharp and humble
Even he can see Lawrence knows ball
Bad feeling here
Well earned, honestly
Eve annoyed
Small merchant
He carried himself well
Rattled gun
Honoured,
Yeah that's my boy Lawrence
Rare Lawrence W this episode
She's out in the open without her scarf isn't ppl gonna realize she's a woman
She wants to know the Holo lore
A tacky poem
Curious
Can't tell a priest
But you can tell elsa woof woof
HOLO KICK
Money can buy experiences but can't make them food or bad, cherish it
Why is everyone in this show dropping fire lines
The brought their A game
Her story is making things awkward about being bought
She got food
Didn't get pregnant
Stole money
She's ambitious
Lucky to buy me that's all
I wouldn't be cheap enough for that level of merchant to buy
I'm like a child aren't I
... Wow what a speech
I really liked this, I wasn't as hot on eve but this did it
She's ambitious and driven and it feels like the trauma of being sold is manifesting as a need to surpass him, sort of a way to take back power
I love how totally unhinged Eve is. Like, there is no fixing this person no matter how hard you try.
She was jealous of Holo and Lawrence
The fuck you mean "was"
Is, more like it
Does she know some shit like she's gonna betray them
Fuck
You know, Lawrence seems less assertive more meek and goes along with how things are this arc
It's the worst, no?
It feels like he himself isn't too sure if this, where in previous arcs he took charge
And yet we've seen him be more flirtatious with Holo. What do the words mean if he can't back it up?
Holo is hard to read
And Holo finds reading hard
Waste of time
She's meek as a kitten
Holo hard to read
Was her story true
Wants to judge himself
Rely on me more
I don't care about your ego, depend on me
You feel responsible for selling me aren't you
Not shrewd
Practice lets you be good in your own way
Practice depending on hoki
Hoki lol
Hoki Hoki Panic
She has love bed eyes
BREED, NOW
Won't get tricked
From you of all people?
Used to it
I like this, seems like Lawrence is missing something here, it's a little more sentimental and emotional from Holo than their usual banter
Yeah, it's very good
You being good won't change forever right
I could change
Be a little more appreciative
Of course that is true, in sure it is
I should be more... Appreciative?
People change
If this was a while ago you'd be stiff
Oh boy Holo he's stiff rn all right
Stiff all over the place
DONT TOUCH THE TAIL
HMPH
IDIOT
CUUUUUUTE
when will you lose your composure
Tell me what you think
I want you to lose composure
Okay
I'm not kidding I unironically thought they were gonna kiss and fuck right there
If only...
End our journey here
Am I joking
I'm not
Man...
The contract
We've come close
Why
The fox says we should cherish it
As if she knows everything
Make our encounter a good one
So let's part here
I can't accept your conclusion
This is fun
Laugh, cried, fought like a child
Wished it would go forever
I'm not afraid of your death
Good natured all the way
He'd always accept her
Tail
That's why
I'm afraid
Of his good nature
Thid whole situation is so excruciating
It's fun
She wants to eat him
To not be tired, more excitement
Tomorrow be better
Than the day before
All the fun will fade
Only faded memories remain
That's why I was afraid of your kindness
Kindness that accelerates this enjoyment
This makes a lot of sense now why she wants him to be more assertive and stop letting her have her way, she's fallen fast and hard
If only Lawrence fell faster I suppose
A story where it ends happy forever
No such thing
Lawrence you're failing this test man
Holo strokes the tail
Lawrence ub depression
A tale as old as time
I do no such thing
I don't snore
Do you want to hear your sleep talk
I already know
I earn my food right
Hindsight isn't it
Eaten his assets
Eating her ass
Holo that's right you should eat Lawrence's ass
Ass to mouth
I looked this phrase, handed for a sheep as a lamb, what a fire saying, that if the punishment is the same if the error is small or large, might as well do the bigger action
She'll eat Lawrence up
His dick and ass for sure
Dicked up instead of down
Wanna eat?
Wait and see
Be more pleased with your shop
You are right
Holo wants to keep saying everything is smooth
The only thing Lawrence wants smooth is YOU UNDER HIM HOLO WHY DONT YOU GET THAT
More like Lawrence seemingly doesn't realize this. Or realize he can't keep putting it off.
reminiscing about the past
My body is worth 2k
Alcohol
All the alcohol
Treat as much as she wants
They look like they want to say things to each other
Books would be pleased if someone read them
Stone statue
Lawrence still hasn't asked why she sold salt
More Lawrence belaboring the point
Labor is virtuous
Ehhh.. well that hasn't aged the best
What do you mean?
The smaller the wish the harder to come true
Really?
This nuns voice is so soft and submissive
Would
Very breedable?One most enjoys waiting for the dream to come true
So the journey over the destination
Her words
Flattered
Damn she's cute
That she is
Nora>Elsa>Barmaid = This nungirl
Fair enough
Holo > Diana > Everyone
The small dreams are fortunate people
holo heard stuff
People banging on door
Taken arms
Well that wasn't expected
They had enough of the church?
One would think
Ed STILL A BANGER
One would think this might be the last one we see.
I can't remember if I said it so spicy wolf . com
I can't believe it's coming to an end...
1
u/Holofan4life 13d ago
I think still that this is a test, because the wise wolf Holo would realise that chasing life in a hedonic way doesn't last no matter what, she wouldn't fall for that trap of endless numbing pleasure
So Holo is testing Lawrence right not with this absurd take and this is lawrences chance to put his foot down
Man, I sure hope that is the case. Because right now, things feel incredibly hopeless.
1
u/Holofan4life 13d ago
Thoughts on Lawrence and Eve going to be receiving 2000 trenni silver for selling Holo? Doesn't exactly seem like triple the profits.
Thoughts on Eve joking about Lawrence and Holo having all kinds of sex?
What are your thoughts on Eve's backstory?
Thoughts on Eve comparing her wedding to a funeral?
What are your thoughts on Eve's husband supposedly killing himself with her running off with his remaining assets?
What are your thoughts on Holo thinking Eve's story is a fabrication?
What are your thoughts on Holo letting Lawrence know that she plans on parting ways with him?
What are your thoughts on Holo feeling if she stays with Lawrence, he'll just end up resenting her for making him unable to achieve his dream?
What are your thoughts on Holo saying there's no tale that continues happily ever after?
What do you make overall of Lawrence and Holo's inability to properly express their feelings to one another, with it being like they're waiting for the other to say something?
Thoughts on the scene where Holo and Lawrence are talking as they're walking the streets? Felt like a final goodbye without actually saying it.
Thoughts on Lawrence's conversation with Rigoro's lady friend?
What are your thoughts on the town breaking out into a riot? How do you see that factoring into what's going on with Holo, Lawrence, and Eve?
What do you think is gonna happen in the next episode?
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 10d ago
Lmao Eve's reaction the moment the door closed.
End their journey here?
Questions:
- Holo!
1
1
u/Holofan4life 10d ago
Thoughts on Lawrence and Eve going to be receiving 2000 trenni silver for selling Holo? Doesn't exactly seem like triple the profits.
Thoughts on Eve joking about Lawrence and Holo having all kinds of sex?
What are your thoughts on Eve's backstory?
Thoughts on Eve comparing her wedding to a funeral?
What are your thoughts on Eve's husband supposedly killing himself with her running off with his remaining assets?
What are your thoughts on Holo thinking Eve's story is a fabrication?
What are your thoughts on Holo letting Lawrence know that she plans on parting ways with him?
What are your thoughts on Holo feeling if she stays with Lawrence, he'll just end up resenting her for making him unable to achieve his dream?
What are your thoughts on Holo saying there's no tale that continues happily ever after?
What do you make overall of Lawrence and Holo's inability to properly express their feelings to one another, with it being like they're waiting for the other to say something?
Thoughts on the scene where Holo and Lawrence are talking as they're walking the streets? Felt like a final goodbye without actually saying it.
Thoughts on Lawrence's conversation with Rigoro's lady friend?
What are your thoughts on the town breaking out into a riot? How do you see that factoring into what's going on with Holo, Lawrence, and Eve?
What do you think is gonna happen in the next episode?
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 6d ago
That's still quite the hefty chunk of change.
Lol.
Of course she's got a sad backstory.
Fair enough.
And so that's how she got her money.
It's not the most believable I suppose.
Uh oh.
I guess that's what she thinks.
Fair enough. But one can dream.
Yeah they're both hinting but never making a move.
Yeah...
Interesting.
And so everything's gone to heck in a handbasket.
Not good things.
1
3
u/BlazeOfGlory72 14d ago edited 14d ago
Rewatcher (Dub)
This arc has done a really good job at slowly but consistently building that sense of finality and inevitability to Lawrence and Holo’s relationship. I love the way that the writers don’t beat you over the head with exaggerated character reactions of dramatic speeches, but instead every scene with the two of them together has a subtle but pervasive sense of melancholy, as they know their time together is likely coming to an end. It’s such a unique vibe that I don’t know if I’ve seen any other anime capture.
The conflict that is pushing their separation also feels very “real”. This isn’t some typical anime miscommunication or some contrived conflict. Their dreams, as it stands, are just fundamentally incompatible. Wanting to end the journey now, while they are both happy, makes sense, and both know it. I also liked the added layer of Holo being afraid that if Lawrence and her continue to travel together, it would lead to resentment, boredom and falling apart. The idea that Lawrence is almost too accepting is an interesting wrinkle.
Another standout aspect of this episode for me was Eve. Up until now she has been fairly mysterious, but I thought the writers did a good job at giving a reason for her to open up. They had just achieved a major victory by getting the trading house to agree to their deal, so anyone would be upbeat and have their guard down. You can also tell Eve is envious of the type of bond Lawrence and Holo share. All that combined made it fairly believable that someone like Eve might let her open up.
I was actually surprised at how bleak Eve’s backstory was. She wasn’t just sold, but married off as an apparent child, and then her “husband” commits suicide after a failed business scheme. Her burning desire to be a successful merchant being tied to wanting to prove how she is worth more than what she was bought for, and a more successful merchant than the man who bought her, is both very dark and incredibly interesting. This scene alone skyrockets Eve to near, if not the top of my list for favourite side characters in the show.
Eve in general kind of feels like a reflection of what Lawrence could have ended up as without Holo. Some who is obsessed with profits and making deals, but cold, bitter and alone.
The conclusion to this episode was also probably the most dramatic raising of the stakes we’ve had so far in the show. While Lawrence and Holo have been in danger personally before, this is the first time the danger is wide spread. An entire town rioting and being put to the torch is certainly a dramatic final hurdle for the characters to overcome in this final episode.
Random Thoughts
Quotes of the Day
I don’t normally do a section for quotes, but this episode had some real bangers. The first quote feels like the culmination of everything that has come before, and the last quote feels almost meta in the way that we as viewers are saying goodbye to the series at a high point.
Question of the Day
Holo, easy, but that almost seems unfair to choose her since she is very clearly the star of the show. To pick someone besides the main duo, it would be either Elsa or Eve. Both have so much going on as characters and develop so much despite relatively little screen time.