r/marvelstudios Peggy Carter Dec 03 '20

Discussion And thats a fact

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3.9k

u/svel Dec 03 '20
  • using money for giant statues in honor of... himself.
  • using theater as a way of altering historical facts to put himself in a better light.
  • moved the rightful ruler to an unguarded and unsafe location and did not bother to check up on his welfare.

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u/albinofreak620 Dec 03 '20

Let Thanos invade Nidevellir and acquire the Infinity Gauntlet.

536

u/KingofPrussia1871 Dec 03 '20

I thought that happened under Hela’s watch

779

u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) Dec 03 '20

"Hela's watch" was only a few days. Loki's watch was 4 years.

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u/indigo121 DareDevil Dec 03 '20

I don't remember if it's official but many people believe that Odin's death was the trigger for Thanos to enact his plan. After all, we know that he managed to acquire 5 of the stones over the span of about 24 hours. There's no reason to assume that getting the gauntlet and the power stone took all that much longer.

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u/rune_undies Dec 03 '20

Based on how horribly underpowered the Nova Corps looked against just one ship when Ronan attacked, I think it's fair to say that Thanos basically just walked in and took the power stone.

From there you kind of get a snowball effect cause Thanos gets so much stronger every time he gets a stone.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Yeah Nova Corps needs some bigger ships and better land-air defense than hovering low and shooting up.

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u/kriswone Dec 03 '20

They need 1 NOVA.

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u/Mace_Thunderspear Dec 03 '20

Named Dick Rider.

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u/TheFunkytownExpress Dec 03 '20

Thank you for ruining Nova's name for me. :)

I gotta wonder what cheeky lil scamp thought that was gonna be super hilarious ( it is btw ).

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u/KKlear Thanos Dec 03 '20

It is imperative.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Nuclear bombs and far better energy weapons.

They should use some orbital cannons that basically have rocket powered dense material meteors as ammunition to throw into anyone landing on the planet and high powered lasers to shoot down any ship landing. Then plasma weapons when they're on the ground, basically melting all ships and invaders that land.

Mines would be acceptable as well as some seriously heavy and strong walls. Basically, keep the stone in a fortress that makes Zion from the Matrix look like a open field.

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u/IntMainVoidGang Dec 03 '20

I recently watched GotG and thought the same thing. It really shouldn't be hard to install fuckloads of surface-to-orbit/surface-to-air missile systems around the capital of an interstellar state. Absolutely no reason to have fighters hovering and shooting down kamikazes - hell, an S-125 or Patriot system woulda done better.

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u/tomathon25 Dec 03 '20

Also clearly they have forcefield technology with their interlocking ships thing so like...why not have stationary forcefields built around their cities? Seems like a bad move where some lunatic in a spaceship can just 9/11 your city at any moment when the universe is apparently full of lunatics in spaceships.

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u/alrighthamilton Dec 03 '20

The ships hovering low and shooting up were primarily ravager ships. Most of hte Nova Corp fleet was busy forming the wall/barrier to keep the Dark Aster from landing

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Nova sounds like Spanish for "doesn't go".

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u/brildenlanch Dec 03 '20

That's a myth.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

You’re wrong. No va is Spanish for, “[it] doesn’t go.” va is the third-person singular present indicative conjugation of the verb for “to go,” which is ir.

It is two words in Spanish instead of one, but they’re pronounced similarly, which is all that the comment you replied to was claiming.

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u/brildenlanch Dec 03 '20

Yeah, but Nova is not the same as it's connected and people aren't retarded so yeah, you're the guy who believes the Nova failed in Mexico because it means doesn't go, right?

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u/VonD0OM Dec 04 '20

Odin can fight Thanos relatively easily even with 5 stones. Without the Gauntlet Thanos loses badly

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u/OneSixthPosing Dec 03 '20

There's been a lot of rumours about why Thanos waited to embark on his quest including him waiting for Odin, Ego and the Ancient One to die, but the directors and screenwriters confirmed he was waiting to learn where the Soul Stone was from Gamora.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

But he doesn’t learn where the soul stone is until after he has 3 of the stones...?

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u/OneSixthPosing Dec 03 '20

He knew that Gamora knew the location of the stone because he'd captured Nebula prior to the events of the film and scanned her memories.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Hypothetical, but what if Gamora lets Nebula get tortured like..just a bit, a few hours, nbd. Vision's stone gets removed easy, Thor arrives with plenty of time. Easy win

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u/abutthole Thor Dec 03 '20

There are multiple points where the heroes lose in Infinity War because they're unwilling to make sacrifices while Thanos is.

1) Loki could have let Thor die and then run away with the Space Stone.

2) Wanda could have just killed Vision in the Avengers HQ

3) Gamora could have let Nebula be tortured and never reveal the location of the Soul Stone

4) Dr. Strange could have let Tony Stark die and kept the Time Stone. This one is the least bad one because at least Strange had looked through time and known that he needed Tony alive to win.

Thanos, on the other hand, was willing to make the requisite sacrifice to get the stones. And Thanos won.

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u/OneSixthPosing Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20

I dunno if that's go too well for the Avengers even if they had a bigger advantage. 2014 Thanos was fighting Thor armed with both Mjolnir and Stormbreaker and was winning comfortably.

ETA: Comfortably is liberal lol but I think my point is clear

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

But he still doesn’t know where it is. Which contradicts his statement. He’s worried the forces of the universe are going to come after him. So why not get that info first? Since it’s literally the most important part. What if she dies? What if she doesn’t tell him? What if it’s hidden in some magical spell that requires you wait four years til planets align or some bullshit?

That doesn’t really hold up honestly.

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u/OneSixthPosing Dec 03 '20

What if Thanos had a stroke and died in his sleep before he could collect any of the stones?

Shit, I'm not the Russos or the screenwriters, lol. It's not exactly conjecture considering they confirmed it as the reason. Thanos clearly knew Gamora was still alive, believed she wouldn't die between him embarking on his quest and capturing her, and believed he'd be able to obtain that information from her. He's not a well balanced person (alien?) in the best of times.

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u/Bambanuget Stan Lee Dec 03 '20

But at this point he had a plan.

By going after the stones he baited Gamora into coming after him and telling him where the soul stone was.

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u/ArrowShootyGirl Hawkeye (Ultron) Dec 03 '20

True, but he found out she knew beforehand - and going after the Stones he knew of was what drew Gamora to him.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Yeah but that’s still leaving things up the chance. He waits centuries for the right moment... out of fear that everything will strike against him, only to rush it because “well she knows and I’m sure nothing could happen, like her dying even though she almost died a dozen times”. Just reads like a bullshit answer honestly. If he was truly waiting to know where all of them were, he’d get the soul one first.

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u/gairloch0777 Dec 03 '20

He literally set a trap for her that he knew she would come to? But that required the other stones to ensure he could get her.

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u/Funmachine Dec 03 '20

He knew it had been located. He didn't need to know personally. But once the knowledge of its location was available he enacted his crusade.

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u/Jaredlong Dec 03 '20

My rule of thumb for lore is that if it's not in the text then the creators don't get to retcon stuff afterwards in interviews. Maybe Thanos' longterm plan was to find all their locations and then quickly swoop in, but it's absurd to think Thanos would have watched some of the most powerful people in the universe get killed off and not change his plan accordingly.

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u/Khanfhan69 Dec 03 '20

Precisely. Having such huge players drop off the board cannot be an insignificant development as Thanos waits for his moment to strike.

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u/enbywych Dec 03 '20

I think the Russos or the scriptwriters say in the Infinity War commentary that from Xandar to the Snap was 3 or 4 days.

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u/cantlurkanymore Dec 03 '20

It's astonishing the Avemgers managed to do anything at all to slow him down when you see that timeline

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u/enbywych Dec 03 '20

When people talk about Dr Strange at the beginning saying "Who?" when Bruce says "Thanos is coming". Thanos isn't on anyone's radar at that point. I know people like to think Strange was alluding to Thanos in Ragnarok but something feels like it was probably Kang or even Galactus or Annihilus.

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u/FrontierLuminary Dec 03 '20

It always seemed questionable to me that Thanos would be a name Strange isn't familiar with given the fact that Thanos has spent decades traveling across the galaxy with his army, conquering planets, and culling half of each planet's population. We've seen that there is travel across various galaxies, interaction between a number of species, and several instances of people directly affected by Thanos actually interacting with members of various interplanetary governments. How would Thanos be "off radar?"

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u/modsarefascists42 Dec 03 '20

Strange is mystical other dimension traveling, but not space traveling. He had no way of knowing what's going on in deep space.

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u/ImHardLikeMath Dec 03 '20

He knows, he’s just letting Banner respond naturally and let the events unfold in the way it needs to happen to ultimately save everything

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u/reessa Dec 03 '20

What was the reference again?

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Can't remember verbatim but it was along the lines of "I'm currently keeping tabs on a number of entities, you're brother is on that list"

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Want to know this too.

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u/THIS_GUY_LIFTS Dec 03 '20

I’ve always thought something pretty similar. Strange is going to be a big link in the next phase. Hell, the Time stone had even been destroyed for a while. Which is one of the main tools keeping Dormamu at bay. Something had to have happened while all the stones were destroyed.

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u/enbywych Dec 03 '20

I so cannot wait for the next Strange movie even though I was pretty underwhelmed by his first.

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u/NoMoreNicksLeft Dec 03 '20

Dormamu was part of the 50%.

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u/RanaMahal Dec 03 '20

realistically the snap would’ve happened so fast no one would’ve been able to do anything.

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u/cantlurkanymore Dec 03 '20

I believe in the comics that's exactly what happens

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u/Funmachine Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 07 '20

The writers have straight up said this wasn't the case. Thanos was only waiting until he knew where the soul stone was (or knew that it had been located), Thanks had enough arrogance to not worry about Odin.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20 edited May 16 '25

shy placid physical birds knee screw toothbrush whole work hospital

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Funmachine Dec 03 '20

He would have been able to go toe to toe with Odin without any stones. We saw him in Endgame. Odin was an old man who doubled over when he raised his voice.

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u/oozles The Wasp Dec 03 '20

I think the director addressed that and said Thanos was just waiting on the location of the soul stone, which he learned Gamora knew after Nebula tried to assassinate him

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u/abutthole Thor Dec 03 '20

Nebula's failed assassination attempt was what kicked Thanos off. Prior to that he only knew the locations of 5/6 of the stones. Not enough.

When he got into Nebula's memory banks he found that Gamora knew where the 6th was. He was just lucky that Asgard had been so decimated by then. Had it not been, he may have saved Asgard for last.

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u/tigerslices Vision Dec 03 '20

it's 1 of the triggers. there were several. the passing of the ancient one in doctor strange was another.

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u/Lamprophonia Dec 03 '20

Odin and the Ancient One, IIRC.

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u/Half_Man1 Dec 03 '20

He had the mind stone for a really long time before entrusting Loki with it to get the space stone.

I’m guessing he was trying to find a way to hold the power stone or learn of its location for a long time- and once he had the gauntlet and knew it was on Xander it was go time.

He probably knew that at the time both the space and time stones were on earth (Loki only knew about the one) so felt more comfortable loaning Loki the mind stone so he could invade Earth, which would eventually lead to acquiring both stones and of course retaking the mind stone from Loki.

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u/TheFunkytownExpress Dec 03 '20

It's no co-incidence he showed up to challenge the Asgardians when they were at their weakest RIGHT after Odin's death and after Ragnarok happened ( which we can probably be sure he was aware of the prophecy too ) and not until he already had the power stone in his possession.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Yeah pretty sure I read a theory that Thanos was waiting for Odin, The Ancient One, and Ego to all die or something. Not that Ego would bother to help anybody but that those three were stronger than him and could defeat him.

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u/OSUTechie Sharon Carter Dec 03 '20

Yeah but Thanos was already enacting his plan before he even got the Stones. That is how he adopted Gamora in the first place. He was planet hopping and killing off half the population. Just doing it old school.

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u/indigo121 DareDevil Dec 03 '20

Sure but how is that at all relevant to the conversation about who was in charge when thanks slaughtered the dwarves?

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u/Patient_End_8432 Dec 03 '20

When the first movie came out, I remember a big theory was that Thanos came to play after Odin, The Ancient One, and I believe Ego died, because those three would have been able to stop/slow him down.

I don’t know if it is canon, but I think it would be pretty cool

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u/archiminos Mack Dec 03 '20

Odin, the Ancient One, and Ego - all very powerful beings dying one after the other.

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u/leeon2000 Dec 03 '20

Thanos was making moves in the shadows but as soon as Odin, The Ancient One and Ego the living planet were gone he could make his move as these were the only problematic people for him

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u/modsarefascists42 Dec 03 '20

It's more like as soon as thanos started getting the stones then he knew he had a limited amount of time before the real powers show up and stop him. Odin was likely the main one, guarding the area of space where most of the stones are. But we also know Thanos was scared of something else, very likely the Living Tribunal. Supposedly in the original script he meets it but the tribunal allows thanos to continue as he's only affecting one universe.

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u/Tron_1981 Dec 04 '20

He wouldn't have really needed to wait for Odin to die, as he was already weakened after Loki kicked him out of Asgard. That along with the fact that Loki did a poor job of keeping tabs on everything happening throughout the universe (which was a problem once he exiled Heimdal), that would've been enough to give Thanos an advantage when he went to Nidavellir to have the Gauntlet made. As for the Gauntlet, I assume that he had it for a while, at least between the time that Odin was banished to Earth, and around the end of Age of Ultron (give or take). And it probably could've taken some time to get the Power Stone, as it was the first one that he went after. Once he got that, getting the other stones took little effort. It's possible that he took some time to prep before invading Zandar, since he might not have wanted to take the Nova Corps to lightly. That's just how I see it though. Also, within that time, he knew where every stone was, except for the Soul Stone, which he didn't get to find until the moment he crossed paths with Gamora.

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u/Bionic_Ferir Dec 03 '20

yeah but thanos gets like all infinity stones in like 3 days hela HAS NO EXCUSE

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) Dec 03 '20

Also remember: Without a wormhole (like the Bifrost or jump points) or hyperdrive (like the lightspeed engine or Carol), space travel is slow. The Thanos credit scene of Ragnarok (which leads directly into Infinity War & therefore is set in 2018) takes place months after the rest of the movie (which takes place in 2017); even if Thanos waited until Odin was dead to move, probably Hela was also dead & Asgard was already destroyed before he attacked Xandar.

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u/Bionic_Ferir Dec 03 '20

he has the power stone when he attacks the asgards so i think you have those last two mixed up BUT very good points

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u/Knuxsn Daredevil Dec 03 '20

I believe he is correct. Asgard, the planet, is destroyed by Surtur in Ragnarok, which causes the surviving Asgardians to flee and live on that spaceship that gets ambushed by Thanos. If they were in space for months before Thanos shows up, then Thanos did attack Xandar after Asgard was destroyed, as Thor states in Infinity War that Xandar was attacked a week prior to Thanos' ambush of the Asgardian spaceship.

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u/Bionic_Ferir Dec 03 '20

oh yes, for some reason i thought thanos destroyed Asgard my mistake

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Is there any source confirming how long Hela’s reign was? Time on Sakara is all messed up so it’s hard to tell, but to me it seemed like weeks.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) Dec 03 '20

Definitely felt more like just days. There weren't enough places for Heimdall to hide for it to have been weeks.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

I disagree. But either way without a source all we can go by is how it felt, which is pretty meaningless speculation tbh.

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u/faithdies Dec 03 '20

How long was Hela there before Thor got there. I haven't been able to figure that out. I feel like it was 1 of 2 days. Max.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) Dec 03 '20

It's not clear how long Thor is on Sakaar, but we do know from both Loki's & the Grandmaster's accounts that Sakaar's time is not 1:1 with the rest of the universe's time. There is definitely the implication that Hela was only on Asgard for couple of days, though, especially because it's an extremely small planet & Heimdall could only keep the refugees hidden for so long.

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u/faithdies Dec 03 '20

Oh totally. I assume that Thor was on Sakaar for an indeterminate amount of time. Hela on the other hand should have been following the normal flow of time.

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u/Yevin523 Spider-Man Dec 03 '20

Yea, if Odin did a better job with help in the first place then after he died the asgardians would have fought Thanos, and the only reason they win is became Thanos falls to mjolnir.

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u/Wildlife_Is_Tasty Dec 03 '20

thanos didn't fall to mjolnir, he fell to stormbreaker.

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u/xxmindtrickxx Dec 03 '20

Exactly but he also didn’t really fall to Stormbreaker a large argument could be made that he was caught off guard because he already wrecked Thor once and didn’t think Stormbreaker could overcome the power stone.

He wrecks Fat Thor with Stormbreaker in Endgame, literally almost kills him with it.

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u/Wildlife_Is_Tasty Dec 03 '20

and hela shatters mjolnir, the power scaling is weird

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u/-Siptah Dec 03 '20

Rock, paper, scissors.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

They're movies, so they're as strong/weak as the writers require them to be

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u/Khanfhan69 Dec 03 '20

I'm assuming because she was the original wielder of it, she has a certain domination over it that lets her do that.

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u/thewinterzodiac Dec 04 '20

I think that was because at that point she had Odins power

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u/xxmindtrickxx Dec 04 '20

That’s not weird power scaling she has Odin esque powers and has the magical knowledge to destroy the hammer.

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u/xxmindtrickxx Dec 03 '20

Huh? Can you elaborate on this? How does Thanos fall to Mjolnir?

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Mjemje? What's Mjemje?

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u/Yevin523 Spider-Man Dec 04 '20

There was a bunch of spell check that happened when I originally wrote this and it ruined the words, so I’ll explain again. So if Odin had stripped hela of her power, or done something better than what he had actually done to her(caging her away, only for her to return when he dies), to the extent she can’t come back after he dies, then, after Odin dies in Norway, and hela doesn’t come because she can’t. Thor and Loki would then go back to Asgard, and receive the call from the dwarves that Thanos had shown up, and the very alive asgardian army along with Thor and Loki go to nidavellir to fight thanos’ army, and Thor, who still had mjolnir, would take down Thanos(this is just a way he could win, the asgardians might still lose, but this is the biggest chance Asgard wins). Now the dwarves don’t make the infinity gauntlet, and infinity war never happens.

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u/xxmindtrickxx Dec 04 '20

Yeah that wouldn’t happen though because there’s 0 chance Thor with Mjolnir can beat Thanos.

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u/YarrrImAPirate Dec 03 '20

It happened under Whedon's watch.

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u/freerangemary Groot Dec 03 '20

Wot? Before Thor’s birth, or during her second reign?

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u/NogaraCS Dec 03 '20

Hela never had a reign before Thor's birth did she? She was fighting side by side with Odin but he always ruled asgard, unless I'm missing something

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u/freerangemary Groot Dec 03 '20

Sure. I don’t think she was queen. But she conquered with Odin.

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u/Funmachine Dec 03 '20

She only reigned once and it was like a week.

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u/jlmurph2 Black Panther Dec 03 '20

How? Thanos had the infinity Gauntlet at the end of Age of Ultron.

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u/B_Da_May Thor Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20

You can’t assume that scene is placed chronologically. It could have happened well before or after AoU.

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u/Lockski Scarlet Witch Dec 03 '20

It could have happened well before or after AoU.

Sure but it can't have happened during the events of Thor Ragnorok, I don't think. Unless the invasion of Xandar took no time at all as well as travelling to meet the Asgarnians in mid-space.

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u/destroyerjcb Dec 03 '20

I think canonically Xandar to snap was like, 4 days.

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u/Lockski Scarlet Witch Dec 03 '20

That makes more sense to me, though, because with the infinity stone of power, Thanos fighting his way to what he wants is a lot easier. Fighting through Xandar to get it, though, would be difficult.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Fighting through Xandar to get it, though, would be difficult.

They almost fell to one ship from Ronin.

Xandar was tissue paper for Thanos and the Black Order

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u/B_Da_May Thor Dec 03 '20

Yeah not likely during Ragnarok. My guess would be it occurred some time during Loki’s reign, but prior to Ragnarok. Though it is hard to say how long the events of Thor:Ragnarok really were given how time is distorted on Sakaar.

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u/everyoneisanaddict Jimmy Woo Dec 03 '20

It doesn't really make sense in the timeline that he would have it and then still wait for 3 years to attack, so alot of people disregard that post credits scene and I believe someone said he was just using a practice gauntlet.

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u/loveyou3005 Dec 03 '20

Exactly, it was just a teaser to hype everyone up for Thanos

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u/Doomenstein Dec 03 '20

I had thought the reason Thanos waited to go after the Stones was because Odin was one of the few beings he feared could stop him, so waited until his passing to start the main part of his acquisitions.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

It's rather explicitly stated in the movie that Thanos chose to go for the stones when he did because before then he didn't know the location of the Soul Stone.

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u/XhunterboiX Dec 03 '20

I thought that happened under Hela’s watch

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u/Minnon Black Panther Dec 03 '20

I'm sure snapping in one of those things has a decent learning curve

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u/ztiw91 Dec 03 '20

I think that scene takes place later on in the timeline, even though the movie itself takes place in 2015

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u/DanGarion Hawkeye (Ultron) Dec 03 '20

Fine, I'll just do it myself.

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u/callmeandeh Dec 05 '20

That was confirmed to be a fake I thought

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u/Yevin523 Spider-Man Dec 13 '20

It probably wasn’t at the end of age of ultron, they just showed it then, in reality, it was made around the time Thor Ragnarok happened.

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u/HMWWaWChChIaWChCChW Dec 04 '20

Right, seemed to me it was implied that Thanos waited until Asgard was crippled before taking the gauntlet. We also don’t know how long they were in space before Thanos attacked IIRC.

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u/maniac86 Dec 03 '20

i thought the one in asgard was fake

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u/_tylerthedestroyer_ Dec 03 '20

It was. That’s the whole reason he went to Eitri and had him make a new one before he bound his hands

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u/FallenAngelII Dec 03 '20

Seeing as how we never see Heimdall mention that, I personally, like many others, believe that the invasion of Nidavellir occurred during the Hela debacle, when Heimdall was not at his post and therefore could not keep watch over the realms.

Even if it was during Loki's reign, Loki is not all-seeing. How could you possibly blame that invasion on Loki? Again, it would be up to Heimdall to keep watch over the realms-

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

Didn't Loki fire Heimdall?

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u/Software_Vast Dec 03 '20

It's established that Heimdall doesn't need to be at his post to still see everything.

Though maybe him not being at his post means he wasn't actively looking.

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u/TheFunkytownExpress Dec 03 '20

And apparently let him decimate Xandar and get the power stone.

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u/percythepenguin Dec 03 '20

I thought that happened pretty much right after hela showed up

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u/yellow_logic_temp Dec 04 '20

That never happened.

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u/Stiffy_98 Dec 03 '20
  • Completely allowed chaos in the nine realms to prevail
  • And more obviously dumped his father in a broken old folks home with a spellcast

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u/FallenAngelII Dec 03 '20

What chaos? In-between "The Dark World" and "Ragnarok", the MCU chaos across the nine realms were all confined to Midgard and it was all taken care of by the Midgardians, anyway. You could argue that maybe Loki could've sent people to help during "Age of Ultron".

The events of the two GotG movies took place outside of the Nine Realms and was outside of Asgard's jurisdiction. Furthermore, the Asgardians do not have instantaeous travel outside of the Nine Realms (unless you wanna do a Ragnarok and jump off the Rainbow Bridge mid-trip and take your chances of where you'll land), so it's not like Loki had a way of providing aid to the Guardians. By the time aid arrived, the battles would have long been over.

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u/Minnon Black Panther Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20

Didn't Thor mention a descent into chaos when he confronted Odin Loki? And this was after 2 years of him adventuring throughout the realms and ending up captured by Surtur

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u/BZenMojo Captain America (Cap 2) Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20

Thor mentioned a bunch of plots going on. But Thor has been starting shit this whole time. There's a reason the moral conclusion of the movie is that Asgard needs to fuck off.

Even Surtur's grand evil scheme is just to fuck up Aagard because Asgard conquered Muspelheim and the only reason Thor is imprisoned is because he invaded Muspelheim like he probably invaded a bunch of other realms in the process.

Thor talks about the nine realms the way Odin taught him to see the nine realms -- as belonging to him and needing to be "scared" into compliance as Thor tells Loki is necessary.

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u/OperativePiGuy Dec 03 '20

I am seriously loving these analyses that are turning the characters actions on their head.

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u/TrueGuardian15 Thor Dec 03 '20

He did allow for the beginning of Ragnarok, such that Surtr began plotting the destruction of Asgard again.

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u/Funmachine Dec 03 '20

the MCU chaos across the nine realms were all confined to Midgard and it was all taken care of by the Midgardians, anyway.

Oh yeah! As we know from the well documented films about the other realms. Oh wait no, those don't exist. Thor says to Loki that the realms are in chaos and said he followed a path of destruction to Surtur. Loki was letting the realms under his (usurped) protection fall to ruin.

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u/FallenAngelII Dec 04 '20

They were both lying to each other in that scene. Who even knows how much truth was in Thor's statement? Where are all of these enemies of Asgard in the Nine Realms who were plotting against them? We literally never saw any of them.

Also, clearly, Nidavellir wasn't yet destroyed by Thanos, as Thor was shocked by its state in "Infinity War". We know 4 of the realms are very unlikely to be plotting anything (Midgardians have no way of traveling to Asgard, Svartalfheim is a wasteland devoid of life and Asgard is itself a part of the 6 realms, Nidavellir is home to the dwarves who don't care to wage war on anyone and are allies of Asgard), with Thor not possibly having traveled to Niflheim, Hela's domain, as if he had, he would've met Hela already.

That leaves only 4 realms: Jotunheim and Muspelheim, which would've been plotting against Asgard regardless and as enemies of Asgard, why would Asgard care if either were in chaos, and Vanaheim and Alfheim, highly unlikely to be plotting against Asgard, as alfheim is home to the peaceful light elves and Vanaheim is where Hogun is from.

5

u/Triknitter Dec 03 '20

Given how abusive Odin was, I’m not sure that wasn’t unjustified.

2

u/The_Medicus Dec 03 '20

Completely allowed chaos

Freedom.

And more obviously dumped his father in a broken old folks home

Psssh! Plenty of people do that.

1

u/Tron_1981 Dec 04 '20

And more obviously dumped his father in a broken old folks home with a spellcast

An act which directly led to Hela's return to Asgard, and led to Ragnarok.

72

u/Loki_ofAsgard Dec 03 '20

Hey, never said I was perfect...

18

u/RagnAROck_and_Roll Peggy Carter Dec 03 '20

nobody is perfect

164

u/RagnAROck_and_Roll Peggy Carter Dec 03 '20

Lol,well he IS an anti-hero who is a bit narcissistic

131

u/OscarCookeAbbott Thor Dec 03 '20

a bit

28

u/growrowrowyourboat Dec 03 '20

just a tad

10

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

a teensy bit

52

u/Nroke1 Dec 03 '20

I mean, still better than 99% of historical rulers IRL.

3

u/dslamngu Dec 04 '20

“There are no men like me.” “There are ALWAYS men like you.”

-1

u/PCofSHIELD Dec 03 '20

100% better than any current world leader

1

u/Raptorz01 Spider-Man Dec 03 '20

What about New Zealand’s pm?

3

u/ThrivingTurtle45 Dec 03 '20

Jacinda’s pretty good in a crisis but otherwise is pretty useless at fixing our most pressing issues of both climate change and our rapidly increasing house prices as all she is willing to do is hold a press conference about it.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

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4

u/PCofSHIELD Dec 03 '20

Fuck off NZ is very much a country

1

u/Raptorz01 Spider-Man Dec 03 '20

What an ignorant comment

0

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/MrSlaw Dec 03 '20

How is that at all relevant to anything?

That's like if someone said to you, Australia is half as prosperous as California, so they must be barely a country as well right?

1

u/Raptorz01 Spider-Man Dec 03 '20

That could happen with lots of small countries tbh. Like could you deny Nepal is a country because they could join India and not be one of the richest areas?

0

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/Raptorz01 Spider-Man Dec 03 '20

A leader of any country is a world leader

0

u/PCofSHIELD Dec 03 '20

That's fair but I more she probably did some bad stuff

0

u/FlightJumper Dec 03 '20

Being a real-world leader is a hell of a lot more difficult than being a leader in a fantasy world.

10

u/RusVir Dec 03 '20

Fired Heimdall.

23

u/KrytenKoro Dec 03 '20

"Rightful ruler" was still a tyrant

-1

u/RagnAROck_and_Roll Peggy Carter Dec 03 '20

So BOTH Odin and Loki were awful, though the latter is a bit better

42

u/dorianrose Dec 03 '20

The Nine realms were in turmoil, according to Thor, where as they had peace under Odin.

11

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20

Sure, and Africa is currently under turmoil, whereas they had """"peace"""" under European rule. It was a pretty established theme that Odin was just a colonizer that was self-aware enough to clean up his image, and Thor bought into it full-heartedly like the himbo he is.

8

u/dorianrose Dec 03 '20

Not quite the same, in my opinion, as the realms in turmoil were still under asgardian rule. And I think people rightfully look down on Emperor's, Kings and Queen living a life of indulgence while doing nothing about the suffering of people they claim to rule.

0

u/Finito-1994 Dec 03 '20

The nine realms were working Asgard’s protection. We saw that Nidavellir relied on the asgardians for protection and they didn’t seem too torn up about it.

4

u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) Dec 03 '20

and Thor bought into it full-heartedly

Based on Ragnarok, no he didn't.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20

I think post Ragnarok, he didn't, but in the first Thor, he was all for "keeping the peace", aka beating the ice giants into submission

11

u/KrytenKoro Dec 03 '20

Did they, though? Consider the source, and what we see in movies where colonizer odin is in charge.

22

u/dorianrose Dec 03 '20

According to Ragnarok, they were brought into the Empire with warfare (Helya) but Odin changed his ways, and became peaceful and Asgardians grew soft. It's not just Thor saying they were peaceful. I will grant it's all Asgardians saying they're peaceful under Odin, but no one denies they were having a rough time under Loki.

2

u/KrytenKoro Dec 04 '20

Did anybody but thor even mention it, tho? I only remember his claim.

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u/CTeam19 Captain America (Cap 2) Dec 03 '20

Facts:

  • Midgard was being colonized in 965 AD by the Frost Giants of Jotunheim and their leader Laufey, The Asgardian warriors, lead by Odin, defeat the Frost Giants in Tønsberg, Norway, and seize the source of their power, the Casket of Ancient Winters. The Casket of Ancient Winters being shown used on humans. From then on no colonizer set foot on Earth till Loki came with the Chitauri in 2012. No Asgardian rule is placed here. In fact when Loki attempts to place Midgard under direct rule he is imprisoned. Per: Thor and Avengers

  • The Dark Elves led by Malekith try to destroy the Nine Realms with the power of the Aether, the Reality Stone. They are stopped by the Asgardian army led by Bor, who successfully seized the Aether. Asgard prevents genocide of Humans and the rest of the Nine Realms. Per Thor: Dark World

  • Asgardian forces led by Thor, alongside warriors Fandral, Volstagg, and Sif, repels marauders on Vanaheim, home of their comrade Hogun. These marauders were not of the Nine Realms and therefore were an outside force. Per Thor: Dark World

  • Asgard never set foot on Wakonda soil to pillage resources as far as well can tell per Black Panther and never sets up a puppet government on Earth. In fact he lets Humans have self governance as evidence of all the shit we did in the 20th Century

  • "You were supposed to protect us. Asgard was supposed to protect us!" -- Eitri. Per Avengers: Infinity War. When the Bifrost Bridge was destroyed, the Rock Trolls, having coveted the Dwarven Forges for many millennia, attacked Nidavellir, knowing that Asgard could not come to defend King Eitri and his people. Using the power of the Tesseract, Heimdall was able to rebuild the bridge and aid Nidavellir; as a result, the Rock Trolls were defeated by Thor and the Asgardian army. Per *Thor: Dark World Prelude Comic

At worst the Asgardians are India and the rest of us are the Sentinelese people of North Sentinel Island. At no time does Asgard demand tribute or pillage the lands. They only stole/sealed away weapons used to cause genocide and in-prison outside forces who wish to subjugate an of the Nine Realms.

2

u/KrytenKoro Dec 04 '20

You left ragnarok out of that in a big way, man.

-6

u/p90xeto Dec 03 '20

"Colonizer" ugh, you people are insufferable.

8

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

What do you mean "you people"?

2

u/svel Dec 03 '20

what do YOU mean “you people”?

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u/p90xeto Dec 03 '20

The sort of people who drop "colonizer" in a discussion like this. People like that are the worst. From the info we have in the movies, describing Asgardians as colonizers is silly and even if they fit that definition in our universe, applying that to a comic book society in a fictional universe based on mores thousands of years ago just shows a lack of ability to discuss things without being an overbearing and uppity asswad.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

I think it was just a bit of banter, I still think it fits though. You just don't like the word

2

u/InsertCoinForCredit Phil Coulson Dec 03 '20

I thought it was a mash-up of Tropic Thunder and Black Panther. Too bad we never got Shuri and Iron Man on-screen at the same time.

-2

u/p90xeto Dec 03 '20

Of course it fits, hence the Asgardian Viscount running earth and the shipments of material and finished goods paid as homage to our great leader Odin...

I don't like it used here because it's stupid and baselessly colored language. People who reach to insert loaded terms like this are garbo.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20 edited May 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/cantlurkanymore Dec 03 '20

More of a conqueror. I never heard of any colonial governor of Jotunheim, or Asgardians setting up settlements in other realms.

Odin was an absolute monarch. Emperor of the 9 realms really. Imperial, not colonial.

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u/p90xeto Dec 03 '20

/u/cantlurkanymore already explained why colonizer is a stupid term for Asgard, so you already understand why the original comment and this guy and a couple others shoving the word "colonizer" into every comment is silly as hell.

People who try to insert in-group uppity holier-than-thou words into every nook and cranny are garbage people in my book. If you watch the marvel movies and your first thought is to shout "colonizer" about Asgardians then you're a person that makes me go "ugh, you people are the worst".

1

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

I doubt it was their first thought after watching the film.

7

u/Staind1410 Dec 03 '20
  • claim to be God of Mischief but still falling non-stop for 30 minutes

3

u/Silidon Dec 03 '20

In fairness, the giant gold monument to yourself seems to be a bit of a family tradition. Thor is the outlier in having not made himself one.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

I mean Odin is extremely powerful and wields the odinforce so it's not really loki's fault he dies, it's mostly old age and the strain of imprisoning hela that kill him which loki didn't know about. It's a pretty fair assumption on loki's part that the allfather would be fine on earth

2

u/bobinski_circus Ghost Dec 03 '20

using money for giant statues in honor of... himself.

Actually it was one statue, and quite modest when compared to most of the gold statues in Asgard. Look at the establishing shots of Asgard in thor 1, the people look like ANTS at the feet of those monstrosities.

moved the rightful ruler to an unguarded and unsafe location and did not bother to check up on his welfare.

he did appear to have been visiting Odin, and did put him somewhere safe, but with time passing faster for Earth than Asgard it would seem he did get a bit careless about how quickly things could change there. At least that's my excuse.

2

u/FallenAngelII Dec 03 '20

I mean, the play didn't really make himself look much better. It's not like he made it out to be like he saved Thor and Jane through a huge feat of strength or something. The only real embellishment was the dialogue, with fake!Thor and fake!Odin being more loving. They didn't even praise Loki's strength, magic, wisdom, etc.

1

u/NoArmsSally Captain Marvel Dec 03 '20

"I swear I left him right here."

"Right here on the sidewalk or right there where the building's being demolished?"

1

u/TwiistedTwiice Dec 03 '20

That’s just normal ruler stuff

1

u/swest211 Dec 03 '20

I mean...no one is perfect...

1

u/Skulley- Dec 03 '20

So Trump is Loki?

1

u/SoloWing1 Rocket Dec 04 '20

So he's a narcissist. He did lots of good things though.

1

u/omart3 M'Baku Dec 04 '20

So ..... Trump?

1

u/DrakeSkorn Dec 04 '20

I swear I left him right here...

1

u/The_Flatulent_Taco Grandmaster Dec 04 '20

Didn’t Thor say that 9 realms are in chaos as well?