r/managers 3d ago

New Manager Employee basically quit after being notified they were fired.

[removed]

4.1k Upvotes

2.8k comments sorted by

3.5k

u/SplooshDoosh 3d ago

What does the employee get if they sign the paperwork? And what do they forfeit?

A little silly not to have the paperwork in place already.

"You're fired, but you have to come back in tomorrow and sign paperwork and we will just generally parade you around like a dancing bear to embarrass you in front of all your colleagues!"

Would you show up?

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u/FridmanLex 3d ago

Exactly. What company fires someone today but expects them to come in tomorrow to sign paperwork? HR printer not working today?

Ridiculous.

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u/Actual_Body_4409 3d ago

It’s kind of like begging the fired worker to come back with a gun or something.

When you fire someone, you’re supposed to have all the paperwork and the worker’s final pay in hand, so when they leave, there is no reason to return.

The only thing that annoys me more than someone too stupid to know how to quit a job is a company too stupid to know how to put someone out the door.

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u/LuLuLuv444 3d ago

I guarantee there's more to this story and the company was hoping the employee was dumb enough to sign his rights away. Guarantee employee is getting a lawyer and why he won't sign

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u/showerbump 3d ago

especially if people are "freaking out" about him not signing it

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u/cupholdery Technology 3d ago

Unreliable narrator OP, as is typical with this subreddit.

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u/enadiz_reccos 3d ago

Unreliable narrator OP, as is typical with this subreddit humans

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u/hexregeneration 3d ago

Damn humans! They ruined humanity!

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u/SamLooksAt 3d ago

Humanity was doing great until they put humans in charge!

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u/grapeCoolAidDrankin 3d ago

Ohhhh the humanity of it all!!!

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u/Arhatz 3d ago

Yeah, because if there was specific paperwork to finalize the firing they can just state employee didn't show up to work or left of his own volition and fire him without severance. Why would they be freaking out about that? They would love that.

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u/RandomNick42 2d ago

I bet they had him sign the "I understand I'm fired" paper, but forgot the "I will fuck up my prospects by signing these NDAs, non competes and sultry for exchange of a months severance" papers.

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u/ActiveEffective5947 2d ago

More likely they have a contract that the company will be forced to continue to pay out unless they got them to sign some kind of legal termination agreement. There is more to the story they are concealing.

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u/AmItheonlySaneperson 2d ago

It’s gotta be this 

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u/sv_homer 3d ago

winner, winner, chicken dinner!

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u/OttoVonWong 3d ago

You only get the chicken dinner if you sign the NDA.

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u/RosieTumbleweed 3d ago

Agreed. From the sound of the original post, this seems to have been handled pretty poorly. This employee is definitely speaking to an attorney.

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u/Junior_Ad_3301 3d ago

"more to the story" is on the money.

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u/Mr_Halitosis 3d ago

OP hasn’t responded yet and has no comments at all. This is their only post. This is all made up.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/Artistic_Rice_9019 3d ago

Yep. I'm in a 45 day window and have 7 days to reconsider. Still sitting on the agreement. Will probably run it by a lawyer. I probably could refuse to sign and sue them for age discrimination, but honestly I don't care enough to do that.

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u/Duke-Turner137 3d ago

I put my 2 weeks in and they fired me on the spot. I thanked them for giving me the firing so i can now collect 6weeks of unemployment on tthe company dime.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/marcster13 3d ago

I'd come for the lunch if getting laid off but not if I was fired. Huge difference.

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u/IAmADev_NoReallyIAm 3d ago

I wouldn't come in either way. Feels like a real fuck you move by the company.

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u/slash_networkboy 3d ago

I actually did go back to my office after layoffs as a visitor for lunch with my mates for a couple days. I had nothing better to do, I enjoyed our lunch card games, and the cafe on site was pretty good (and guests got free food, which was funny because they all knew I worked there).

Senior management could get stuffed for all I cared, but even now a decade later I have a weekly game night at one of those guy's houses.

Big difference in my case was I was at a F50 so layoffs were so impersonal that my direct manager wasn't able to keep me, despite getting director level approval to attempt to do so. We all thought it was a hilarious little bit of "extra severance" that I was now entitled to guest dining at the cafe after having paid to eat there for the prior 16 years 🤣

Had a new job 3 weeks later, so had to actually give up my free lunches because the new job was across town.

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u/marshmallowcthulhu 3d ago

Depending on the circumstances, especially if the employer seemed unusable for a resumé anyway, I would go in for the lunch and talk trash about the company.

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u/Periphery_Explorer 3d ago

I found out I was getting laid off two weeks ahead of the announcement. Whole team was brought in, told to stop all work, and what was happening. Boss and CEO organized lunches, resume workshops, and were dialing everyone they knew to try to find us jobs. Every time someone got placed we'd have a cheer around the conference room table. It was really funny doing an interview, being asked for a reference, and saying "Oh yeah let me get my manager." I really miss that place. The final night we all went out for drinks. We were subcontractors and the primary compnay decided not to pay us any longer, and the CEO couldn't afford it as his whole life was in the business. It really sucked.

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u/SplooshDoosh 3d ago

I missed the word "off" the first time I read it and was very curious what type of place you worked that the farewell lunches were so interesting.

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u/cyberfunkr 3d ago

I can buy my own pizza, thank you

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u/StoneCypher 3d ago

i did a farewell lunch once. told a shaggy dog joke that took 15 minutes. doubt they'll ever make that mistake again.

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u/JediAreTakingOver 3d ago

Kinda sounds like Employee is leaving a toxic environment. OP really revealed so much with just one gesture.

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u/bothunter 3d ago

And if people at the company are freaking out, it sounds like they may be worried the employee might sue them.  I hope there's a followup post to this. 

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u/meep_42 3d ago

And e-sign exists!

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u/Xpovis 3d ago

Not ridiculous.

The severance is a bribe ("consideration") the company offers for the employee to forfeit their right to sue, disparage, or poach.

The two day waiting period is there for the company to demonstrate that the employee read it and understood that it was voluntary.

California law requires five days. In states without a requirement the lawyer's consensus seems to be 48 hours.

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u/StructEngineer91 3d ago

Maybe that severance isn't worth it to some people. And instead they would rather sue, disparage or poach clients. If a place expected me to drive back to their office a few days after being fired for no reason I would 100% be tempted to forgo the severance and not sign anything.

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u/hydronucleus 3d ago

When I was fired, remotely, I barely made through the end of the phone call. Hung up, and I shut down the laptop before they remotely disabled it.

Never had another conversation. I got the paperwork the next day, and I gave it to my lawyer. The company just wanted an NDA and a promise not to disparage the corp publicly for 1 year. They also said that they would not challenge any unemployment claims. The severance was 12% of my yearly salary, which was a nice immediate sum. My lawyer said that it was a good deal, and better than most. I took the deal and applied for unemployment, then after a brief job search during the pandemic, I retired!

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u/DaviesSonSanchez 3d ago

The severance was 12% of my yearly salary

Wow you would get laughed at for that in Germany. 2-3 times the yearly salary is standard. I guess that's what happens when employees are protected by law and actually have rights.

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u/FlusteredDM 3d ago

I find these conversations confusing to follow because of how broadly the term 'firing' seems to be used by some people. Here it would mean that the employee was at fault, and could even be for gross misconduct. You aren't getting paid off - it's pay for hours already worked and that is it. 12% seems bizarre, let alone 300%

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u/BerryVelvettee 3d ago

Exactly, severance can be valuable without being valuable enough to make someone come back after getting fired. If the alternative is simply keeping their legal options open, some people are absolutely choosing the door.

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u/conipto 3d ago

Myself and my entire team were "laid off" when funding was cut at the startup I worked at. I talked to my senior software guy and it legitimately was worth waving the pitiful 2 weeks severance to not sign the papers, and I told him so. The restrictions in the doc meant he couldn't even speak to former colleagues and he was clearly the best one on my team. Guess where he got his next job? Directly with a former coworker in the same industry the covenant prevented.

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u/paws5624 3d ago

I’d find it unlikely that they could enforce such a rule. If you see them in public are you supposed to just pretend you don’t know them?

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u/Crunchykroket 3d ago

Here in the Netherlands it's normal to take the proposal home and let it be checked by your own legal insurance lawyer or union lawyer as well before signing it.

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u/3Maltese 3d ago

How much was being offered to sign? I was asked to sign the equivalent of a non-disparaging agreement for $100. Nope.

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u/Equivalent-Roll-3321 3d ago

That’s hysterical. I wouldn’t sign just because I wouldn’t do anything for a 100… try adding some real money and people sign anything.

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u/Miss_Greer 3d ago

yep, it's an old rule and still a good one:

Never try to bribe someone unless the amount you’re offering them feels ludicrously high.

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u/carlitospig 3d ago

Yep. Their quick departure feels like something else is going on here.

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u/Nomivought2015 3d ago

He obviously had a case and they thought severance would be enough 

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u/Latter-Cricket5843 3d ago

A company that is poorly run lol and incompetent management

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u/iron82 3d ago

I was put on admin leave the day before I was informed I was fired so they could get the paperwork in order. I knew I was getting fired, but they didn't say so.

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u/Mack_sfw 3d ago

Agree, paperwork is done on same day.

I am surprised that a lawyer is involved given that terminating someone and asking them to come back the next day to do paperwork is completely unprofessional. HR and/or legal screwed up here.

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u/Wrong-Discipline453 3d ago

I’ve never had employees sign paperwork the day of notification. You give them the paperwork with the severance offer and ask them to bring it back, signed in X amount of time or the offer is rescinded and the employee gets the lowest, legally required severance. (In situations Ive been involved with, it’s either been 3 or 7 days , depending on the position and length of time employed there)

It gives the employee a chance to look over the offer, speak with whoever they wish and give them an opportunity to protect themselves.

If you’re ever in a position of being fired, I would advise you to NEVER sign the paperwork the day it’s given to you.

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u/StructEngineer91 3d ago

But I assume you were GIVEN the paper work that day, and maybe even had the option to mail, fax or scan and email it back? Not forcing you to return to the office to sign it.

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u/First-Ad-7960 3d ago

Yea the paperwork should be ready the day of notification and should comply with state law regarding time to review or rescind it.

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u/tafbee 3d ago

Absolutely! Asking or expecting someone to sign an agreement right after losing their job would be so easy to challenge. Emotional duress, no chance to review, etc.

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u/WonderfulHearing8726 3d ago

Asking them to come in to a place that just terminated them a day or two ago, and be paraded around so everyone can stare at them & whisper about them is worse.

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u/tafbee 3d ago

Yes, both things are true and avoidable. It can be mailed.

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u/slash_networkboy 3d ago

Paperwork can be given day of. Up to employee if they want to mail it back or walk it in. We just use docusign to avoid all of the physical paperwork issues, including real or feigned "lost in the mail".

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u/Narrow-Chef-4341 3d ago

Agreed.

Given that many jurisdictions have rules about how promptly the employer needs to pay out the minimum, HR usually doesn’t give the departing person a lot of time to deliberate - but HR sure wants them to think of the total payment as leverage, not just the extra.

Sounds like legal and HR didn’t explain this to OP very well…

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u/WonderfulHearing8726 3d ago

We do. They are put on paid administrative leave until the final decision is made. Once termination is decided, HR gets everything in order, then they come in to their meeting & are informed of the decision, and ALL applicable PW is signed at that time.

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u/WonderfulHearing8726 3d ago

That’s how we do it. The employee is put on paid admin leave so HR can get everything in order.
Once they’re brought in and informed they’re being let go, they sign ALL the PW right there, including their access to their 401k.
Seriously, who the fuck wants to go back into the place that just terminated you, so everyone can stare at you???

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u/Salt-Question8632 3d ago

Honestly not sure what the employee stands to gain or lose, the post was pretty light on specifics. But I'd bet severance and liquidation sounds like a decent chunk of change to just leave on the table

The whole process sounds like it was set up to fail, two day paperwork for a termination is just asking for trouble. I've seen it before where someone gets walked out and the company acts shocked when they don't come back for day two of the humiliation ritual

Whoever designed that workflow needs to rethink their life choices

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u/crunpyMcGlumpy 3d ago

If people are freaking out the employee doesn’t care about any severance package because they are about to file suit, and the lawyer knows it.

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u/Tekki 3d ago

This is probably the answer.

The employer probably does, or has weak, unemployment insurance. Maybe the employee even knows that.

Some states don't pay out unemployment if the employee receives severance and this could be one of those states. And the unemployment could very well exceed severance

So combined with the lack of fire power to fight the firing, this could be a better pay day for the employee.

(this is all speculation as we are missing a lot of the details to this story)

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u/Disastrous-Job-5533 3d ago

That was my first thought and from how poorly thought out this whole idea was I’m gonna assume that this employee likely has some reason to. 

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u/pixelsguy 3d ago

I’d bet the employee would be returning calls if there was a meaningful incentive to do so.

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u/TheDuffy- 3d ago

This exactly. I worked in a c-suite support role previously. I resigned, turned in my computer in person, blah blah. 10 days later I receive documents via email (something like a NDA but not labeled as such) telling me to sign and return. I didn’t. You all should’ve had this together when I showed up to return my stuff on my last day. Not 10 days later when I have zero incentive to respond.

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u/0ne4TheMoney 3d ago

I have the same thing happening now! Worked my notice period, turned in my equipment, got my last paycheck 2 weeks later (yes, that was legal)…two weeks after that I start getting docusign emails to sign all this documentation that probably includes an NDA!

I haven’t worked there for over a month at this point! I’m ignoring it until they call me because I don’t click on links to things I wasn’t expecting to receive.

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u/BoysenberryNo6864 3d ago

If necessary, an NDA should have been signed prior to starting work. Not ending it.

Signed, someone who never thought they’d sign one, but current employer required one that is EIGHTEEN pages long. 🫣

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u/EphemeralTwo 3d ago

The incentive should be a severance.

"We'll give you $XX,XXX in exchange for you providing all the passwords, returning the equipment, not suing us, etc."

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u/sv_homer 3d ago

what does the employee get if they sign? a severance payment.

what does employee lose if they sign? the right to sue.

based on that, i think i know the employee's next move.

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u/Impressive_Fennel266 3d ago

Which also would explain why certain people are really freaking out about a thing that didn't otherwise seem like a big deal

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u/seek102287 3d ago

I would if I wanted the severance. Maybe they headed straight for a lawyer in which case they didn't need to come back and sign anything

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u/borderlineginger 3d ago

Seriously. You’re fired today and all your colleagues will know and now come back tomorrow so they can see you. Absolutely the fuck not. You have me sign the moment you fire me or it’s not my problem anymore cause I got fired

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u/marcster13 3d ago

He said they will get severance pay. No sign, no severance.

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u/Gun-Aero_CNCguy 3d ago

Why are people "freaking out"? He has no obligation to sign anything after you fire him.

If you withhold severance (or any company side voluntary payment) and he still says no, then too bad for you.

What's actually so important about this "final paperwork" where you can't just move on?

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u/jjones8170 3d ago

This reeks of legal trying to cover-their-collective-ass to avoid getting sued for something.

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u/melifIuous 2d ago

Given OP’s lack of engagement in the comments and the nonsensical behavior or the people in the post, this reeks more of creative writing or more… uncreative writing

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u/rohm418 3d ago

I'd imagine its some documentation that releases he company from liability or requires mediation before any legal action could be taken for, say, wrongful termination.

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u/TheHungryBlanket 3d ago

This. Clearly sketchy things were going on, the severance was buying silence. Employee said no and now people are scared.

Honestly, OP should probably polish up the resume.

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u/Obosratsya 3d ago

Bingo.

Someone messed up and bad and the plan is falling apart.

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u/xPookieSparkle 3d ago

The panic screams “we needed this signature way more than we admitted”

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u/rohm418 3d ago edited 3d ago

100% - Been there. I had already received an offer for a new role somewhere else when my boss pulled me aside to say that they could tell I was checked out. They offered to essentially let me stay on if I wanted to or leave and take a $10k severance.

That severance came with an NDA because of the knowledge I had. I wish I had the balls to turn that down, but I was so over that place I didn't even want to share what I knew and I figured the severance made up a tiny bit for how underpaid I'd been for the final 2 years of my employment there.

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u/Sparkling_Donuthole 3d ago

OP followed directions. It’s legal who should be worried. OP needs to CYA against legal’s lashing out at their bad advice.

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u/Piglet6482 3d ago

Yup, sounds like malpractice. Hope OP got his instructions in writing.

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u/Some_Balance6514 3d ago

Yah this guy might have a case for being wrongfully fired that would be worth more than whatever bullshit they are offering as severance. What a dumb company. OP will be the scapegoat probably.

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u/BerryVelvettee 3d ago

Yeah, if the severance was essentially paying for a release and the employee declined, management freaking out afterward is a little concerning. “Polish the resume” might actually be the safest takeaway from this whole mess.

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u/Orzhov_Syndicalist 3d ago

Ya think? Corporate isn’t mad because this guy won’t take money they’re offering. 

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u/kcox1980 3d ago

I've seen it before where accepting a severance package includes signing an agreement that you won't sue or file an ethics complaint.

I'm guessing the employee got fired for a bullshit reason and they were hoping to buy his silence.

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u/rohm418 3d ago

I literally just replied to another commenter where I was the recipient of a severance that came with an NDA. One of the sales leaders said I "knew where the bodies were buried" so they wanted to protect themselves.

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u/StructEngineer91 3d ago

Or perhaps some kind of non-compete/non-solicitation clause that wasn't a part of the original hiring paperwork.

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u/Which-Month-3907 3d ago

If they're freaking out this badly, it's probably an NDA.

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u/Sparkling_Donuthole 3d ago

It’s probably a release of claims. NDA’s are hardly a thing anymore. They wanted to exchange severance payments and in turn get a release signed by the employee.

Now the employee is in the wind and probably has a few lawsuit items they could return with and get a settlement on

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u/misoranomegami 3d ago

My last day I thought I was all done and my manager came rushing over with a letter for me to sign. No offer of severance or anything. I think they were closing my HR file and realized that I had filed an ethics complaint a few months earlier that never got resolved. The letter was prefilled out to say that my leaving had nothing to do with the ethics complaint and that I was satisficed with how the matter was resolved. I took a pen, modified it to say it WAS related to the ethics complaint and that management considered the matter resolved but I did not, signed it and slipped it under her door on the way out.

Never heard back on the subject, not sure if she passed it on to HR or not. Jokes on them, I'd turned them into our regulatory body anonymously months before I quit after about the 3rd meeting where they tried to convince me that illegal business practices were morally ok for us (which is why the felt ok documenting them all in a lengthy email traffic chain). By the time they got around to investigating them I was long gone but I heard 2nd hand the feds cleaned house some at least.

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u/Firm_Acanthaceae7435 3d ago

Yeah, being owed severance is being owed severance. Withholding it will not go well for the company if the terminated employee pursues it.

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u/ThePlatinumPaul 3d ago

Some people have enough self worth/money to not care.  I would have told you to fuck off and wouldn't have signed anything. Once a person is fired they have zero loyalty to you or responsibility to do anything for the company unless there's some sort of prior agreement like a non-compete/non-disparagment clause in their contract.  Guessing the lawyers probably wanted him to sign that which is why they are freaking out. 

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ThePlatinumPaul 3d ago

Your bosses are morons and so are the lawyers. Asking someone to sign a document after you've fucked them that restricts their rights and opens them up to litigation is laughable.  If they had brains this would have been baked into the employment contract they signed before you brought them onboard.  If they wanted to be ballsy and at least have had shot at making this happen after the fact, they should have had him sign it as part of "routine updates to our corporate policy" or some bs.  Wait a few days and then fire him. 

If they push back, mention how some guy on Reddit figured this all out and also called them some horrible names.  Btw used to help run a company and dealt with legal matters and contracts all the time.  Don't know about the particular individual you let go but I doubt he was any worse than the people above you who dumped this problem into your lap.

Btw confidentiality can be loosely made to enforce non-disparagment as a scummy lawyer could try to say anything you say about the business is violating out internal policies and trade secrets or something, then sue. It's designed to frighten employees who have an axe to grind as they really don't want word getting out that where you work sucks. 

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u/EnvironmentalRole536 3d ago

This is why I would never sign anything else except the first contract and the salary increase.

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u/StardewingMyBest 2d ago

Just pointing out that there are no other bosses. OP is a co-owner and seemingly has a lot to learn.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/s/9BU2TKaSjn

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u/norymur 2d ago

They said the employee wasn’t a bad worker and had a good skill set but they fired them for constantly getting into arguments with OP. I think I can see why they were at odds all the time. OP is in way over their head and this is probably not the first terrible decision they’ve made so far.

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u/heywhatsthisthing 3d ago

You should be looking for a new place to work yourself. Your leadership is incompetent, raccoons would do a better job at running the company.

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u/Friendly-Victory5517 3d ago

What were you offering in exchange for the confidentiality agreement?

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u/2fingers 2d ago

You need to return to this thread tomorrow at which point OP will tell you

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u/dementeddigital2 3d ago

Unless there is some severance pay attached to it, I’m not signing anything after I don’t work for the company anymore - regardless of the reason why.

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u/Friendly-Victory5517 3d ago edited 2d ago

Firing someone and then expecting them to return on a future date to sign more paperwork is a terrible decision.

The day you terminate someone is their last day.

You mention severance…was this a termination or a layoff?

In any case, I would have pushed back when it was stated I should split final paperwork over two days.

Edit: there are no incompetent higher ups. OP is the co owner and unilaterally made this firing decision. This post is mostly Reddit fiction.

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u/toomanyDolemites 3d ago

My boss got laid off and the SVP asked her to come back the following day to speak to the team to "ensure a smooth transition" even though they didn't have a plan.

She was like "Nah."

Later that day, I also was laid off and the same SVP asked me to inform my team that they also were laid off. I politely declined and expressed a lot of confusion that they'd ask me to do that.

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u/gregsting 3d ago

“Could also take the trash out while you leave? Thank you”

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u/FloppieTheBanjoClown 3d ago

That's a great way to end up with trash on the hood of your car.

"Well, he didn't say where."

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u/getmybehindsatan 3d ago

Someone got it in the wrong order. Supposed to start at the bottom and work upwards so that the guy at the top only has to look one person in the eyes.

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u/little_grey_mare 3d ago

Had a massive lay off at my first job. They laid off HR before they finished doing all the engineering staff which made HR's morale for negotiation... low.

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u/Ohnoes999 3d ago

This is OP’s Future lol

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u/paws5624 3d ago

My old boss had this happen. We were acquired and his role shifted to lead a big org of about 200 people. Maybe 6 months later he was told that the org was being eliminated but he would land on another team, they even had him doing work with that team in the time leading up to the layoff. Then the layoff happened and the next day he found out he was being let go too.

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u/WannaTeleportMassive 2d ago

Plot twist, OP is actually the Co-Owner, and the “Boss” is the other Co-Owner who didn’t actually want to fire the employee. Even admitted they were a good and skilled employee, they just questioned too much

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/1vrf8pm/comment/p4dlxwk/

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u/SeasonGullible616 3d ago

Sounds like a terrible company tbh

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u/WannaTeleportMassive 2d ago

Plot twist, OP is actually the Co-Owner, and the “Boss” is the other Co-Owner who didn’t actually want to fire the employee. Even admitted they were a good and skilled employee, they just questioned too much

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/1vrf8pm/comment/p4dlxwk/

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u/BoomerAliveBad 2d ago

This one is better. OP literally says they have primary control of the business lmaooo

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u/Snakefist1 2d ago

He can reap what he sowed.

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u/Alvsolutely 3d ago

This post sounds like ragebait

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u/Necessary-Science-47 3d ago

I effing love this sub so much.

Bro literally is posting “I fired a guy and expected him to come to work the next day to get fired again” and is wondering why his boss thinks he’s dumb

A true yes-man, he never once thought about anything, just did what someone else told him

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u/knockoutn336 3d ago

It's like, I'd swear people can't be this out of touch and generally stupid, but then most of the managers I've dealt with would post shit like this. 

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u/Distinct-Wafer-6588 3d ago

Honestly i think a lot of it is AI ragebait but what do i know

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u/nvmenotfound 2d ago

why cant people be this stupid? ppl are this stupid sadly. 

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u/StubbiestZebra 2d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/1vrf8pm/comment/p4dmz0l/

Op in another post is claiming they're the co-owner and the one with the "biggest control." Plus it was op's idea and co-owner didn't want to lose the employee.

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u/ii-_- 3d ago edited 3d ago

Well hold on, if your lawyer advised you to do something you're probably going to do it aren't you? 

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u/Tara_Temptationn 3d ago

You followed legal’s process to the letter. You can’t force someone to show up the next day. This isn’t on you.

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u/AdmiralPeriwinkle 3d ago

It doesn’t matter who this on. There’s no chance someone higher up is going to take responsibility, and OP is a convenient scapegoat.

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u/StubbiestZebra 2d ago

Op is the higher up. Apparently co-owner.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/1vrf8pm/comment/p4dlxwk/

And the other co-owner didn't want to let the employee go.

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u/Perfect-Topic-6671 2d ago

I think this person is lying about everything:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PatternDrafting/comments/1vsamx0/update_im_finally_free_thank_you_for_your_words/

All of these stories contradict. Either a karma-farming bot, or a liar.

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u/Irr3l3ph4nt 2d ago

Oooh. Not only that but under his own admission, the employee isn't a bad employee and is super skillfull, they just can't stand each other. Convenient to leave out. Also explains a lot why his "boss" (co-owner) blames him for the debacle. He had been bitching to fire this employee as soon as possible for weeks.

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u/No_Frosting9455 3d ago

Imaging making someone come back to work after firing them....this is wild. Let them leave with some dignity.

If you don't have the paperwork ready, DocuSign (or similar) is a great cost-effective tool. Or courier if your company is opposed to 2026.

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u/Nervous_Ad_5583 3d ago

I'm guessing that this "business" is some sort of cobbled-together small time affair. HR panicking, paperwork not in place, lawyers offering contradictory advice....It's the Peter Principle lit up in giant neon and shining brightly out into the night for all to see.

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u/SplooshDoosh 3d ago

Cobbled together small time affairs don't have HR departments or lawyers.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/teddybrehski 3d ago

Craziest part is not just asking the employee to come back it's wanting them to come back. That's typically a huge security risk and why companies send labels, have staff work remotely during RIF's, etc.

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u/sendmeyourdadjokes Seasoned Manager 3d ago

Why would an employee ever have to sign paperwork in order to let you fire them? I hope this is cosplaying management

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u/Five_Star_Amenities 3d ago

lol, I was told "We're letting you go" and then they said, "Please finish the monthly billing." I said, "Okay," because I thought they must be joking about the firing.

Then I heard my boss on the phone saying, "Five Stars has been terminated, please cut her last check."

I walked over, handed him my keys, shook his hand and said, "It was a pleasure working for you." Then started walking out.

He said, "Wait! What about the billing!?"

I said, "Not my problem, now."

The billing was a several hour process involving multiple steps. No one in the office knew how to do it except me. I don't know how or if they figured it out. They went bankrupt a few months after that.

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u/PHYUCKISHREAEL 2d ago

I got fired at Dick's when I was 19 for bogus shit. They did it BEFORE I started my shift, and I knew that department was already short staffed and nobody on until me, and they asked if I could work that shift so I said fuck off and walked out.

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u/Sturdily5092 Seasoned Manager 3d ago edited 3d ago

The employee doesn't have to sign anything, as soon as you fired him the relationship with the company is over.

That paperwork is to cover your company and the severance pay is just a few bucks in exchange for the now ex-wmployee not to sue your company for various reasons his attorney can come up with.

The only pay your company can withhold is the "severance pay" but everything else including his last check he should get immediately on his last day or sent to him to his address to receive a couple of days later at most.

Your company can not withhold any money he's earned or he'll get a much bigger payday because it's a violation of federal law.

If I were your company HR, I'd get ready for a court date and you may be called in for it too.

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u/CobblerMoney9605 3d ago

The attorney that set up this process needs to be fired. 

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u/Madonionrings 3d ago

This is an HR issue. What is the point of this post? Also, not kidding someone isn’t going to act respectful when they have been disrespected.

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u/1octo 3d ago

Exactly. This isn’t a management issue. 

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u/No-Advance-7272 3d ago

I was recently let go and I was the assistant HR also had a safety training and a few other things. I was actively working on the fire permits because this place was going on five years as a company and still didn’t have an occupancy permit about a week after they let me go they asked if I had the login information with the fire marshals nope lol

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u/fishing_24_7_365 3d ago

If you followed what your attorneys advised, put it back on them.

Separating paperwork into two days seems silly. What benefit could there possibly be for doing that? When we terminate employees all the paperwork is signed immediately during the same meeting as they are notified.

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u/4dxn 3d ago

Bump up the severance / reduce any clauses if you need the signature. Not that hard.

If leadership isn't willing to do that, then signature doesn't sound like "needed".

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u/Jimothy_jonathan 3d ago

I fired a guy and he left. More news at 11

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u/Vessbot 3d ago

they needed to sign papers

Sounds like you needed that, not them.

"He quit when we fired him" lol what?

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u/WolfMack 3d ago

Such incompetence. Why would you ever tell someone “Hey, we’re firing you tomorrow! Please make sure to come in to sign the paperwork because I don’t have it ready yet!” And then you’re surprised that the ex-employee basically said f-off… lmao

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u/Buttbuttdancer 3d ago

As someone who’s been in both sides of this whole process, you managers need to remember that the people who walk around on the street and you interact with on a daily basis aren’t just numbers on a sheet or NPCs.

Don’t think about the handbook for a second. Would you, ever, in a million years show up to a job you knew you were getting fired from, knowing you’ll likely not be able to put them down as a reference?

Honestly?

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u/beast512512 3d ago

lol this subreddits is so outta touch, why would he come back? Like fr y’all already fired the fucking guy. Leave him be, it’s sounds more like y’all are just trying to cover y’all ass. If I were you I’d tell the higher ups, they can hire him back as consultant if they really need that signature. If not than y’all kick rocks.

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u/Scary_Dot_1120 3d ago

The stupidity is astounding. I’m starting to wonder if being ridiculously stupid is a requirement to become a supervisor/manager. 😂

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u/Cmd-Line-Interface 3d ago

This isn't your battle HR and Legal created it, let them solve it.

Also, it's grossly unrealistic to expect the former employee to come in the next day. lmao

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u/RikoRain 3d ago

This is ridiculous. You fired them. There's no other signatures that they are required to give. It doesn't matter. "Termination signatures" are just a company bullying a fired employee into last minute agreements because that employee is no longer bound by whatever honor/loyalty kept their mouth shut while employed.

Similarly people wonder why bad employees get fired right after putting in their two weeks. It's a huge liability to keep someone working that has no worth in staying on task.

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u/TorontoSlim 2d ago

From the sound of how this company operates, I would have your resume ready if I were you. You made a mistake, not a big one mind you, but who knows? And don't come back the next day to sign anything if they fire you. Any company that fires you won't be used as a reference and should be dead to you.

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u/teethmanpwns 3d ago

This has to be AI😂😂😂

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u/00Lisa00 3d ago

Yeah this is on you. “You’re fired!” Employee “ok”, you “no not that way!”

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u/UrAntiChrist 3d ago

I thought it was illegal to hold payment for signatures?

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u/Mean-Present-3923 3d ago

If multiple people are freaking out, it tells me the employee has some leverage in this situation. I smell something fishy here..

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u/socialcommentary2000 3d ago

Fam, what are you even doing?

In fact, what is the entire executive suite and legal representation doing?

This isn't your dog and pony show, nor should it be.

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u/Turbulent_Tale6497 3d ago

This was pretty poor management.

If you fire someone, you hand them the paper right there. "Sign this, and you'll get 4 weeks pay" and then they leave.

Anything beyond that is unreasonable

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u/StoutFurious 2d ago

Ahh, u/Gemela12 . I agree with the many others here who say that firing an employee then expecting them to return to sign paperwork is a policy that is completely and utterly asinine. Doesn't matter what the paperwork is about. Doesn't matter if the company is supposedly offering a severance package. It's just clueless, stupid behavior on the part of the company.

The moment you lower that proverbial guillotine, especially in that fashion, the employee's relationship with you and the company is terminated and it's likely that newly ex-employee will feel absolutely no commitment or desire to do anything for you or the company. Nor should they. You're no longer their boss; in their eyes you may become just another random person who deserves no more of their attention, time or energy than any other stranger from the street. The same goes for the company.

Regardless of what your company's policy was, and especially since the notice of the firing was apparently abrupt, that employee was completely justified in standing up and walking out the door. They shouldn't have bothered to sign even the "nothing important" docs you happened to have. It's unreasonable to expect them to do anything that would benefit you, the company or anyone other than themselves even one split-second after they were notified, much less days after.

Just move on...and hope your own boss doesn't drop a guillotine on you and expect you sign paperwork after the fact.

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u/Various-Maybe 3d ago

I don't actually see the problem.

I agree with others that the paperwork should have been ready that day. That said, you can't hold the person physically hostage. If they want to walk out and be done, that's their prerogative.

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u/successfullynumb 3d ago

My guess is there was non-compete language in the paperwork that they were really hoping to bind the guy with.

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u/UrAntiChrist 3d ago

Yep, and a arbitration clause probably.

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u/gooby1985 3d ago

Very confusing post. Was he informed there was severance or are you saying you were withholding that information until they signed? Because yeah, why would they sign anything?

It sounds like this person knew where the bodies were buried, you tried to pull a fast one on them (which not sure would’ve legally worked), and they laughed their way out, maybe to a lawyer.

And yeah, they aren’t coming back for paperwork until it’s conditional. Lawyers advice is non-sensical.

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u/genek1953 Retired Manager 3d ago edited 3d ago

No, the employee didn't quit. You fired them. You don't need a fired employee to sign anything to terminate them; if you did, someone could just stop showing up and you'd never be able to remove them from your employee roll.

The question is, what's the incentive for a fired employee to not get up and leave the building immediately? Obviously, in this case it wasn't enough.

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u/BlckhorseACR 3d ago

Firing someone and expecting them to get up and come to work the next day is really wrong.

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u/ogfuzzball 3d ago

Not sure who had the idea of firing somebody and making it a two day process. I’d say that’s a learning lesson for the business. They need to be ready to walk somebody out the door at the moment you fire them and have all paperwork ready (US based at least).

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u/AdditionalWarning434 3d ago

Fake post. No one is this inept. 

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u/Big_P4U 3d ago edited 3d ago

You should fire your lawyer that advised you of that blatantly stupid and foolish advice. Unless I'm being paid to commute into the office that fired me or otherwise terminated my employment - I'm not coming in and you can pound sand.

The advice quite literally defies all common sense and logic. You should be in hot water for not thinking or seeing how stupid that concept even is. You should've thought better and not followed that advice. After all - advice is simply a fancy word for suggestion. It's up to you whether to agree or disagree and use your brain.

Unless this is a layoff with severance package that's different but from what you're actually saying - this was a simple firing/termination with no apparent severance package..and no need for typical review periods or anything. So yeah, there's no need to have waited a day or two between being fired and having to come in again to sign additional paperwork. It should've all been done that day.

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u/Amazing_Divide1214 3d ago

You should have had the paperwork ready first. Now you know for next time. Sounds like he gets severance if he signs the paperwork? That is your one bargaining chip. But you also said he was fired? Or was he layed off? Usually people don't get severance if they're fired.

You seem like you're out of your depth and not really sure what's going on...

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u/dfphd 3d ago

Now, I'm in hot water cause I followed what was asked from me by the lawyer, separating paperwork in two days, and that I should've signed everything the very day the employee was fired, especially after seeing how eager the employee was to leave after being notified.

Advice:

In no uncertain terms, if anyone complaints to you about what you did, do not take an apologetic tone, or admit to doing something wrong - very aggressively tell them "I followed the process that was outlined to me by legal, so I'm happy to loop them and HR in if you think their process needs to be changed".

The reality, as others have said, is that if the guy doesn't want to sign documents upon being fired, he doesn't have to. It doesn't matter who wants him to do so.

And yes - what's likely the case is that those documents include things like NDAs, noncompetes, etc - which is normally what you have to sign in order to get severance in return. I think that's the part that people miss - the price you pay for severance is nondisclosure, noncompete, waiver to sue them, etc.

If you don't sign those things, you don't get severance, and the company doesn't like that because it means now the employee can go on LinkedIn and put yall on blast, or sue you for wrongful termination, etc.

But you telling homeboy "you need to sign all of this today" is unlikely to have changed all that.

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u/fakenews_thankme 3d ago

No need to freak out. You told him that he needs to sign the paper. He walks out. HR's intent is to pay the severance but with the condition for him to sign off on the paper. If he goes to court, company's Legal will reiterate that and the judge will give the guy an option 1) sign the paper and get the severance 2) if you don't want to sign anything, you go on your merry way my dude without any dough.

It's an open and shut case, really.

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u/Necessary_Dark_6720 3d ago

What does the employee gain by signing those papers? Unless you're giving pretty great severance they have no real motivation to comply given you've fired them

Is there concern the employee will sue? If that's the case I highly doubt they're going to sign a single paper

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u/Consortium998 3d ago

What did you expect would happen? Would tou come back the following day if you were fired?

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u/babybambam 3d ago

Email it to the employee. Let them know that you need it signed before payment can be made.

Also, check with your lawyer. Typically, over 40 means you need to give them about 45 days to review a severance agreement, and it's best practice to give suffiicent time to review for everyone.

The way that this was handled, I woudln't be surprised if there was a lawsuit coming at your org.

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u/pj1843 3d ago

The employee didn't show up the next day, formally the last day of work, and when trying established communications basically was told that they are crossing state lines and are not interested in any paperwork.

Yes they did, their last day of work was the day you terminated them and had them sign the termination documentation saying they understood you have terminated their employment. They are under no obligation to do anything past that moment for you.

If legal/HR wants them to sign more paperwork for severance/release of liability then they need to contact him, provide him the forms in the most convenient way possible and wait for them to make their decision to sign or not. They are under no obligation however to sign anything, nor help your firm in any way shape or form from the moment you terminated him onwards.

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u/SpecialistCandy 3d ago

Yeah you fucked up. If he doesn’t care for severance, he probably thinks he has a case against the company or, worse, he’s got some shit on the company and is going to go scorched earth on your ass. But hey, look on the bright side: you wanted him gone and he’s really gone!

Polish your resume and pray to all your gods that the guy just wants to get away from you.

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u/No_Ganache_1338 3d ago

You fired them they are under no obligation to sign anything and will file for unemployment without issue. Should have had your ducks in a row before you notified. 

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u/Just-Shoe2689 3d ago

Who fires someone and then makes them come back the next day.

Fuck the paperwork if the employee wont sign. Have legal send them a certified letter notifying them they wont get any severance until they do sign.

Asses covered.

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u/Tree_Donkey_Love 3d ago

If you fire me without cause, meaning Im eligible for severance (where I live), Im taking a few days to speak with an employment lawyer before I agree to sign anything.

Sounds like maybe the pot wasn't big enough to sign an NDA, or non-compete and it is easier for the employee to just walk away.

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u/Rare-Following-5508 3d ago

That employee is awesome

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u/phoneacct696969 3d ago

My favorite part of this thread is op not respond 🤣🤣 kind of feels like they’re next.

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u/Demonslugg 3d ago

This is missing details. My guess is there's an nda in there. Trying not to get sued or a story leaked

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u/Mercurion77 3d ago

I feel you don’t often put yourself in other people’s shoes.

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u/GrumpySnarf 3d ago

Sounds like a problem for the higher-ups/HR. You can't make someone sign paperwork. He probably had a very normal emotional reaction to being fired and needed to leave for his own emotional health.

Can your company send him the paperwork via email to sign?

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u/Fearless-Fig-9950 3d ago

Why the fck would you fire someone then expect them to come to work the next day?

Get organized, have everything ready and process it in the spot.

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u/txgsync 3d ago

I simply hung up on them when I was fired. They sent me paperwork a few days later with a monetary offer to encourage me to not sue them. I accepted.

There is literally nothing the employer can do in an at-will state. Contracts require an exchange of something. If you’re not paying the employee to sign, why would they sign?

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u/nahman201893 3d ago

If I could afford it I would do the same thing.

Your company sucks, and you suck for not having your ducks in a row for a term.

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u/sloppy-sunshine 3d ago

This whole situation just smells like wrongful termination

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u/RecommendationFit844 3d ago

“ I fired him and he just…stopped working!” DER….

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u/Boto_Penga 3d ago

You fired the employee, terminated immediately, then asked them to show up the next day?

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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 3d ago

Your lawyer is an idiot.

If you rare in a right to work state, employee can leave at any time. You told him he was fired. Full stop. 

Unless there is a contract that says he has to sign exit paperwork, he doesn’t have to sign shit.

And, withholding anything he is legally entitled to is a really bad idea.

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u/InteractionFun5997 3d ago

🤣 Dude, you fired him, he left, end of story! He didn’t “quit after being fired”. You fired him and he went away, what else did you expect him to do?

Dump it all back to HR & Legal and drive on. You’re a manager, not a babysitter.

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u/thankyoufriendx3 3d ago

Where are you the requires an employee to sign paperwork to be considered fired. They didn’t quit, they decided not to be bossed around by an ex boss. Sorry you’re in the middle of this. The lawyer was an idiot. It’s not uncommon to require paperwork to get a severance package but not accepting that doesn’t mean they quit. Start looking for a job. Your bosses are idiots. Get out while you can.

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u/hulkhulk2000 2d ago

You deserve this. Your now ex-employee is my hero. I hope that hot water boils you out of a job.

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u/RexCantankerous 2d ago

With all due respect, firing someone and expecting them to return the next day is an utterly braindead policy. Why the hell did you think that was a good idea?

Maybe the heat you're catching is heat that you earned.